start thermistor
James
How does it work?
Thanks
stans news
controll compartment. It works by explosive force magnified by
electrical fire.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:29:45 -0400, "James" <ja...@nothanks.com>
wrote:
Bubba
wrote:
>ya know that goofy blue thing on some carriar units....what does it do?
>
>How does it work?
>
>Thanks
>
>
You mean "Pappa Smurf"?
Bubba
James
But what were they intended to do?
"stans news" <snow...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:r3ojivcracukc7kqu...@4ax.com...
TURTLE
"James" <ja...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:tekWa.12776$Sn.1...@wagner.videotron.net...
> ya know that goofy blue thing on some carriar units....what does it do?
>
> How does it work?
>
> Thanks
This is Turtle.
If it is what i think here , it is a mickey mouse hard start kit. SPP-2 or
a SPP-3. You only need it if your compressor is hard to stat at times. When
a compressor shorts out it makes a good fire to look at as the Blue color is
to look at right now.
TURTLE
Dr. Hardcrab
"stans news" <snow...@comcast.net> wrote
> It heats up untill it explodes leaving a charred black mess in the
> controll compartment. It works by explosive force magnified by
> electrical fire.
You can say that again. I've seen some make a BIG mess! I carry a bunch of
ones on my truck that I took off of junked units just in case a customer
wants the "mfg original part" on it, but usually I'll just replace it with a
small hard start. That's really all they are.
I've had 2 Goodmans in the past 2 weeks that had their dual capacitors
explode. Spent more time cleaning up the oil than it took to replace it and
check it out....
HeatMan
Everyone's right though. Normal cap's usually just expand. These suckers
explode!
"James" <ja...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:tekWa.12776$Sn.1...@wagner.videotron.net...
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>The local Carrier trainers called it a soft start kit.
>
>Everyone's right though. Normal cap's usually just expand. These suckers
>explode!
That's just a very rapid expansion :-)
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~
Coming eventually - PMTherm version 2.0 !! http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm.htm
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
My personal site is at http://www.pmilligan.net ,
featuring free HVAC, psychrometric, stock market, and other software
http://helpthecritters.com/ is my domain for helping critters
Richard
stans news wrote:
>
> It heats up untill it explodes leaving a charred black mess in the
> controll compartment. It works by explosive force magnified by
> electrical fire.
ROTFLOL! Thanks for that one!!:)
Labontewc2000
moter starting run backwards? Had one Thrusday. I did the pm 2 weeks ago they
called back for no ac. Went out there and the thremister was blown apart once i
got it up and running the fan was running back wards. The moter ohmed out right
the amp draw was ok below rated level and moter running backwards.
kjpro
news:20030802204209...@mb-m27.aol.com...
Are you sure the motor was wired right??
--
kjpro
_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>
( kjpro @ starband . net ) remove spaces to e-mail
Want it done yesterday? Or done right today, to save money tomorrow!!
_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>
CBHvac
"kjpro" <( kjpro @ starband . com ) see-my-sig-for-e-mail> wrote in message
news:E6lXa.2803$E86.114...@twister2.starband.net...
James
So nobody knows what start thermistors do???
James
"CBHvac" <webm...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:72GXa.514$U_6....@eagle.america.net...
Bill T (remove clothes to email)
temperarture coefficient. ie their "resistance" can either go up or down with a
change in their temperature, and the temperature is usually changed by the current
drawn through them.
Used to find them in electronic equipment power supplies. They attemp to control
surge currents.
bill t.
"James" <ja...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:IZLXa.44198$ls5.6...@weber.videotron.net...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 08/01/2003
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
I see this sometimes but rare. There is one of two things that is happening.
1) Dual capasitor wires are on it wrong and fan will run backwards.
2) there is a short in the dual capasitor and the fan will run backwards
but at about 80% of normal speed. I seen one about 2 years ago on a Goodman
CK-36-1B condenser.
TURTLE
TURTLE
>
>
> So nobody knows what start thermistors do???
>
> James
>
This is Turtle.
James change the word Thermisters to the word " Hard start Kit " or "
Compressor Booster " and you will hear all about what you want to know. The
hard Start Kit is a capasitor of a high mfd rating and will hit the
compressor with a blast of 440 volt charge for a split second to help turn
it over. A good example of a thermistor / Hard start kit is a cow prode
which will fire a charge of high voltage to hit the cow and make him move
on. The same happens to the compressor when hit with a high charge of
voltage and makes it turn over and run. HVAC professionals call it a hard
start and customers looking in books call it a thermistors. Around here as
HVAC professionals we refer to them in size as SPP-1 being the smallest size
and the SPP-10 being the big Dog model. A SPP-6 is big enough for any
application of 5 tons or less. The SPP-7 and up is just over kill to be
sure.
TURTLE
James
get a reasonable explination of what the little blue gizmo does. Not its
function..but actually how it works.
I replaced one today and was hoping the instructions would explain it.
Nope...jsut how to wire it in.
"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:bgomv0$r113g$2...@ID-79743.news.uni-berlin.de...
James
resister. Like one of the senser on the yourkgueard system. Those are
thermisters. How does a resistor start a motor?
Thanks
James
"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:bgomv0$r113g$2...@ID-79743.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
CBHvac
voltage with temps..
"James" <ja...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:uNZXa.54949$ls5.8...@weber.videotron.net...
kjpro
> James
START CAPACITORS AND PTC DEVICES
Sometimes under adverse conditions, a standard run capacitor in a
system is inadequate to start compressor. In these instances, a
start-assist device is used to provide an extra starting boost to
compressor motor. The first device is called a positive-temperature
coefficient (PTC) or thermistor. (See Fig. 13.) It is a resistor wired
in parallel with the run capacitor. As current flows through the
PTC at start-up, it heats up. As it heats up, its resistance increases
greatly until it effectively lowers the current through it to an
extremely low value. This, in effect, removes it from the circuit.
After system shutdown, resistor cools and resistance value returns
to normal until next time system starts. If indoor coil does not have
a bleed-type expansion device, it may be necessary to remove start
thermistor and replace with accessory start capacitor and relay.
Consult pre-sale literature for application of start kits. Thermistor
device is adequate for most conditions; however, in systems where
off-cycle is short, device cannot cool fully and becomes less
effective as a start device. It is an easy device to troubleshoot.
Is this good enough of an explanation?
James
Maybe my news server didnt list it.
How do you regulate voltage with temperature?
James
"CBHvac" <webm...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:uVZXa.639$U_6....@eagle.america.net...
TURTLE
"kjpro" <( kjpro @ starband . com ) see-my-sig-for-e-mail> wrote in message
> "James" <ja...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
> news:IZLXa.44198$ls5.6...@weber.videotron.net...
> > So nobody knows what start thermistors do???
> > James
>
> START CAPACITORS AND PTC DEVICES
>
> Sometimes under adverse conditions, a standard run capacitor in a
>
> system is inadequate to start compressor. In these instances, a
>
> start-assist device is used to provide an extra starting boost to
>
> compressor motor. The first device is called a positive-temperature
>
> coefficient (PTC) or thermistor. (See Fig. 13.) It is a resistor wired
>
> in parallel with the run capacitor. As current flows through the
>
> PTC at start-up, it heats up. As it heats up, its resistance increases
>
> greatly until it effectively lowers the current through it to an
>
> extremely low value. This, in effect, removes it from the circuit.
>
> After system shutdown, resistor cools and resistance value returns
>
> to normal until next time system starts. If indoor coil does not have
>
> a bleed-type expansion device, it may be necessary to remove start
>
> thermistor and replace with accessory start capacitor and relay.
>
> Consult pre-sale literature for application of start kits. Thermistor
>
> device is adequate for most conditions; however, in systems where
>
> off-cycle is short, device cannot cool fully and becomes less
>
> effective as a start device. It is an easy device to troubleshoot.
>
>
> Is this good enough of an explanation?
>
This is Turtle.
Well bust my britches, I thought them blue hickey was just a Mickey Mouse
hard start kit like a SPP-1 . So it is a temperature controlled
thermosister reducer as temperature rises the thing cut out. So it is a
TCTRATRTTCO device.
TURTLE
James
What do they do, and how do they do it?
James
"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:bgson0$rvivn$1...@ID-79743.news.uni-berlin.de...
go fish
>This is Turtle.
>
>Well bust my britches, I thought them blue hickey was just a Mickey Mouse
>hard start kit like a SPP-1 . So it is a temperature controlled
>thermosister reducer as temperature rises the thing cut out. So it is a
>TCTRATRTTCO device.
>
>TURTLE
if you want a real education, bust one of them blue thingies open
Bill T (remove clothes to email)
(googled)
"James" <ja...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
That tells me there operation but what I am looking for is how they work.
> What do they do, and how do they do it?
>
> James
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 08/04/2003
James
James
"go fish" <iove...@aol.comp.mil> wrote in message
news:20030807082617...@mb-m14.aol.com...
James
I know what a thermisttor is what i need to know is what a "Start thermistor
does and how it does it"
Like you can explain in layman terms what a lever does or what a screw does.
How do you explain what a stat thermistor does in layman terms please.
Thanks again
James
"Bill T (remove clothes to email)" <bterrell...@comcast.net> wrote in
message news:yIrYa.87027$uu5.13137@sccrnsc04...
Don Ocean
Don't have to...Just wait awhile and it will blow open all by itself!
;-)
Bubba
>Thanks bill
>
>I know what a thermisttor is what i need to know is what a "Start thermistor
>does and how it does it"
>
>Like you can explain in layman terms what a lever does or what a screw does.
>How do you explain what a stat thermistor does in layman terms please.
>
>Thanks again
>
>James
It molecula,r man. Only we privelaged HVAC guys can understand what a
start thermistor is and does. Sorry. You'll just have to trust us on
this one. Its all really just magic.
Bubba
CBHvac
> Thanks bill
>
> I know what a thermisttor is what i need to know is what a "Start
thermistor
> does and how it does it"
Ok..it increases voltage as temp increases, sometimes with a Wheatstone
bridge..sometimes not..
>
> Like you can explain in layman terms what a lever does or what a screw
does.
> How do you explain what a stat thermistor does in layman terms please.
Hotter it is, the higher the output..
That is, if its a self heating..and in the AC unit..it is.
Bubba
When a ptc thermistor is wired into the circuit (as in a factory ptc
device in a condensing unit) it applies higher voltage to the
compressor when power is applied to the device.
Almost as soon as power is applied to the ptc, it instantly heats up
and causes high resistance. This high resistance then takes the ptc
thermistor out of the circuit because voltage cant flow through it. It
then has to cool back down and it is ready again. After several
bunches of these heatup/cool down cycles, the damn thing splits and
shorts against the casing of the unit and causes a big black mess.
That sound about right?.......Anyone?
Bubba
CBHvac
Oh..hell..I bet I was talking about the wrong kinda thermistor..
"Bubba" <ReMoVEl...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:s226jv0s8drj2lps9...@4ax.com...
go fish
>Hells Bells. Now Im confused.
>When a ptc thermistor is wired into the circuit (as in a factory ptc
>device in a condensing unit) it applies higher voltage to the
>compressor when power is applied to the device.
>Almost as soon as power is applied to the ptc, it instantly heats up
>and causes high resistance. This high resistance then takes the ptc
>thermistor out of the circuit because voltage cant flow through it. It
>then has to cool back down and it is ready again. After several
>bunches of these heatup/cool down cycles, the damn thing splits and
>shorts against the casing of the unit and causes a big black mess.
>That sound about right?.......Anyone?
>Bubba
you nailed it Bubba....tho most of the time they dont self destruct, they just
stop working. take one apart sometime. i dont believe it's physically
possible to make them any cheaper than they already are.
sbcglobal
screw driver, like we used to do to bump compressors,
throws it more out of phase then just the start winding!
--
Jim Malone
"CBHvac" <webm...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:KlEYa.250$Hy2....@eagle.america.net...
Bubba
I dont like it when Im all fuckered up. :-)
I thought I was learning something new all over again.
Bubba :-)
Alan Muller
up of a start capactor and relay. They give more starting torque than
just the run capacitor but less than a properly wired start capacitor.
Basically they conduct when cold but when they warm up the resistance
increases to the point that they don't disturb the functioning of the
motor.
They have several disadvantages over using a start capacitor:
--less torque;
--they "turn off" in less than a second regardless of whether the
motor has actually started. A potential rely will "hang in there" as
necessary;
--long reset time. They take 3-5 minutes to cool off. So if the
compressor tries to restart within that time --EVEN IF THE PRESSURE
HAS BLED DOWN--you might not get a start.
All the gory details are online:
http://www.vishay.com/docs/23086/305cseri.pdf
Alan Muller
kjpro
> When a ptc thermistor is wired into the circuit (as in a factory ptc
> device in a condensing unit) it applies higher voltage to the
> compressor when power is applied to the device.
> Almost as soon as power is applied to the ptc, it instantly heats up
> and causes high resistance. This high resistance then takes the ptc
> thermistor out of the circuit because voltage cant flow through it. It
> then has to cool back down and it is ready again. After several
> bunches of these heatup/cool down cycles, the damn thing splits and
> shorts against the casing of the unit and causes a big black mess.
> That sound about right?.......Anyone?
> Bubba
I don't know this James character..........
............but that is what I posted two days ago.........
.........on this thread.
Geeez............how many times does he need to be told???
LOL
