compressor runs backwards??
Noon-Air
backwards run backwards!! owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
of weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
the little one). Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused. With
reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
Any ideas??
--
Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C
Noon...@comcast.net
601-794-2992
Why can't Mr Fork and
Ms Electrical Outlet just get along?
RP
Noon-Air wrote:
> 3 ton Copeland recip compressor....240v single phase....appears to run
> backwards run backwards!! owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
> of weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
> never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
> truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
> Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
> discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
> the little one). Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused. With
> reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
> why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>
> Any ideas??
Did you accidentally switch to deg Celcius when checking the discharge?
The only other possibility that comes to mind is a restriction within
the compressor's discharge circuit or somewhere in the line before the
thermometer connection.
hvacrmedic
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>3 ton Copeland recip compressor....240v single phase....appears to run
>backwards run backwards!!
Asshole.
If you had ONE FUCKING CLUE, you would know there is no such
thing in a recip.
>owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
>of weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
>never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
>truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
You never had any to begin with. They wouldn't fit on the
Toyota pick-up.
>Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
>discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
>the little one).
There you go, trying to prove your technical knowledge to all
of us again. I'm impressed, you've improved.
> Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused.
What an INCREDIBLY stupid question.
And over your head. A 3 ton unit is more than you can handle.
Do your customers a favor, admit to them you're a clueless
asshole and tell them to call someone else.
>reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
>why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>
>Any ideas??
Yeh - but I'm done fixing things for you. You're on your own
this time. Go ask Weasel.
Fuck off.
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
gof...@gonefishin.net
<Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>3 ton Copeland recip compressor....240v single phase....appears to run
>backwards run backwards!! owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
>of weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
>never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
>truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
>Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
>discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
>the little one). Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused. With
>reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
>why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>
>Any ideas??
Its my understanding with a copeland recip, it really
doesnt matter which way the crank shaft spins, the pistons
still go up & down.
HP or straight cool? If HP, is the reversing valve stuck
half way?
What caused the disco to smoke?
Jake
> What caused the disco to smoke?
That would be my question, too, Mr Watson (-;.
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>> What caused the disco to smoke?
>
>That would be my question, too, Mr Watson (-;.
>
>Jake
Having Nooner within 6 feet of it.
Bill
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
> discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
> the little one). Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused. With
> reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
> why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
First there aren't any reed valves in a scroll. Second wait till you get
power and put your gages on and take readings.
Did you know Copeland has training nationwide?
https://www.customer-copeland-corp.com/html/whslr/merchandising/images/Ed
ucSrvcs/2004ES-149.pdf
Are you an RSES member?
--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Te-dnRSIFcp...@comcast.com...
3 ton Copeland recip compressor....240v single phase....appears to run
backwards run backwards!!
CY: Hmm. New one on me. Single phase oughta run the same direction,
regardless if you hook it up backwards.
owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
of weeks.
CY: I can believe that. And finally they get around to calling a repairman.
ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
CY: That's an odd one. How warm is it, in the building? What's the outdoor
temp? Seems like if it's cooking warm, indoors, the suction temp (large
tube, typically foam wrapped) could be that warm. Supeheat way off the
chart. But the low discharge temp is the odd one. As someone else suggested,
perhaps a restriction.
never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
CY: Would be interestign to know the running pressures. How long had the
unit been unpowered, before your arrival? The low liquid line temp mighta
just been the last of the refrigerant boiling off.
Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
the little one).
CY: Very possible killer super heat (or conduction from the compressor) why
the large, usually insulated copper line is warm. And how long since it was
running?
Don't those things have reed valves??
CY: I'd figure a recip would oughta have reed valves. Might be broken,
though. Broken reed valves would reduce the motor load, and might not
explain the burnt disconnect.
I'm confused. With
reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
CY: Well, there's (above) a couple ideas.
Any ideas??
CY: Lets take a look, if it were pumping backwards. Supposing it were. Well,
then, you'd have liquid into the evaporator coil, in the large line with the
foam wrap. And liquid in the evaporator. You'd then have expansion happening
after the orifice, which would make it cooling down the small uncoated
copper tubing (usually 3/8 diameter). And, it would be cooling through the
condensor coil. Seems like by the time the refrigerant got to the
compressor, it woulda picked up a lot of heat (outdoors after all) and
wouldn't be 65F.
--
Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C
Noon...@comcast.net
601-794-2992
Why can't Mr Fork and
Ms Electrical Outlet just get along?
CY: Don't know. He's been tine for years, but she's been playing it
electrocute.
Stormin Mormon
numbers.
65 celcius would be a bit hot. What's that, 150 or so? Which is possible
with a discharge line.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"RP" <no_mail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:UsOdndALEte...@centurytel.net...
Bill
Bill <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote:
> > reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
> > why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>
> First there aren't any reed valves in a scroll. Second wait till you get
I read scroll where there wasn't one. The direction and "Rheem" said
scroll.
TURTLE
>backwards run backwards!! owner says its not been cooling right for a couple of
>weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65 never got
>to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My truck was out of
>disconnects, more on order.
> Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
> discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is the
> little one). Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused. With reed
> valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but why the
> hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>
> Any ideas??
>
> Noon...@comcast.net
> 601-794-2992
>
> Why can't Mr Fork and
> Ms Electrical Outlet just get along?
>
This is Turtle.
First
I have seen 2 condensers in my life make the condenser fan motor run backwards
when the capasitor screwed up. If that is what it is, you change the cap and it
will line right up. And yes the cap will show good with a cap tester for some
reason. Reversing the compressor can happen just like the fan motor being made
to run backwards.
Second
Somebody before you has switched the Start and Run terminals on the wires going
to the compressor because of burnt wires on it. Take the Start and Run and
switch them to make any compressor run backward. all the compressor Anteys all
just reverse the start and run to get it to be shocked back into running.
thirdly
Look the wiring diagram over and see the start and run come off of one of the
line voltage and the common come off the other line voltage. See it is wired up
right from compressor to disconnect.
TURTLE
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> First
>
> I have seen 2 condensers in my life make the condenser fan motor run
> backwards
> when the capasitor screwed up. If that is what it is, you change the cap and
> it
> will line right up. And yes the cap will show good with a cap tester for some
> reason. Reversing the compressor can happen just like the fan motor being
> made
> to run backwards.
>
> Second
>
> Somebody before you has switched the Start and Run terminals on the wires
> going
> to the compressor because of burnt wires on it. Take the Start and Run and
> switch them to make any compressor run backward. all the compressor Anteys
> all
> just reverse the start and run to get it to be shocked back into running.
>
> thirdly
>
> Look the wiring diagram over and see the start and run come off of one of the
> line voltage and the common come off the other line voltage. See it is wired
> up
> right from compressor to disconnect.
>
> TURTLE
Mis-wiring is murder. Makes weasel a killer.
Stretch
If you reverse the wires on a single phase compressor, it will smoke
within 2 minutes, irrerversable damage in 30 seconds or less.
(Copeland has a video if it, you should see it some time. Go to your
local RSES meetings, I have seen it 4 times that way.)
If it is 3 phase, it does not matter which way it turns, it will still
pump the same. If it is a heat pump, you could have a stuck reversing
valve.
If the suction is very hot, you might have a large hole in the return
in the attic, sucking in hot air. I have seen that happen. That does
not explain a cold discharge termperature though.
I too have blower and fan motors go backwards. Always turned out to be
a bad motor, found with megohmmeter.
Stretch
TURTLE
Replying to a idiot in place repys.
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:0vitc1hgj0scidn45...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:37:18 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>3 ton Copeland recip compressor....240v single phase....appears to run
>>backwards run backwards!!
>
> Asshole.
>
> If you had ONE FUCKING CLUE, you would know there is no such
> thing in a recip.
>
if you had a brain and worked in the field you would not say the above and know
what a recip. is.
>>owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
>>of weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
>>never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
>>truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
>
> You never had any to begin with. They wouldn't fit on the
> Toyota pick-up.
>
If you had installed a disconnect in the last 20 years you would know what would
fit on your truck or not. No Paul you can't pull you single wide trailor up to
the job to keep parts in. all you can carry is in your truck only.
>>Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
>>discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
>>the little one).
>
> There you go, trying to prove your technical knowledge to all
> of us again. I'm impressed, you've improved.
>
WOW Noone finally told something to you that you understood. Good Now.
>> Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused.
>
> What an INCREDIBLY stupid question.
>
> And over your head. A 3 ton unit is more than you can handle.
>
> Do your customers a favor, admit to them you're a clueless
> asshole and tell them to call someone else.
>
No Pauly , we are not going to do what you do when a 3 ton condenser wipses your
ass and runs from the job. Have you did any hvac work in the last 20 years ?
>>reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
>>why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>>
>>Any ideas??
>
> Yeh - but I'm done fixing things for you. You're on your own
> this time. Go ask Weasel.
>
> Fuck off.
Steve was asking the professionals Techs and business owners what about it and
never ask Software salemen what was the problem. You don't ask a salesman for
help trouble shooting hvac equipment ! You ask HVAC Techs that work in the field
and trouble shoot all day long and not a software salesman who plays with cats
and a computor all day and never sees a condenser unit.
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
Hey I went to this sight and not get atleast 10 to 15 junk mail everyday and
with some Helpcritter.com on their address.
>
> Paul
And it still stand that your a Low Life creature from the scummy trailor park on
the west side.
TURTLE
Stormin Mormon
As I understand, single phase 220, the leads are identical (if out of phase
with each other). So, if you put the black on the red terminal, and the red
on the black, it oughta work out the same.
Do you mean reverse start and run? I thought refrigeration compressors had a
C/S/R terminal block.
Or change which lead gets the capacitor?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Stretch" <sixf...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
news:1120865856....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
STFU, and not funny and all that.)
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Jake" <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:o8Dze.146999$nG6.87977@attbi_s22...
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>In article <8QDze.40928$qm.1...@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> This is Turtle.
>>
>> First
>>
>> I have seen 2 condensers in my life make the condenser fan motor run
>> backwards
>> when the capasitor screwed up. If that is what it is, you change the cap and
>> it
>> will line right up. And yes the cap will show good with a cap tester for some
>> reason. Reversing the compressor can happen just like the fan motor being
>> made
>> to run backwards.
AND IT DON'T MATTER, ASSHOLE !!!!!
>>
>> Second
>>
>> Somebody before you has switched the Start and Run terminals on the wires
>> going
>> to the compressor because of burnt wires on it. Take the Start and Run and
>> switch them to make any compressor run backward. all the compressor Anteys
>> all
>> just reverse the start and run to get it to be shocked back into running.
IT DON'T MATTER WHICH WAY IT SPINS, ASSHOLE !!!!!
>>
>> thirdly
>>
>> Look the wiring diagram over and see the start and run come off of one of the
>> line voltage and the common come off the other line voltage. See it is wired
>> up
>> right from compressor to disconnect.
>>
>> TURTLE
>
>Mis-wiring is murder. Makes weasel a killer.
God, he's an azhole.
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
Jake
> OK, I gotta ask. Reverse which wires?
>
> As I understand, single phase 220, the leads are identical (if out of phase
> with each other). So, if you put the black on the red terminal, and the red
> on the black, it oughta work out the same.
>
> Do you mean reverse start and run? I thought refrigeration compressors had a
> C/S/R terminal block.
>
> Or change which lead gets the capacitor?
>
Chris, we covered this a while back, but briefly:
Single phase motors of this type get their running direction from a
start cap, which gives both direction and start-torque.
Run caps, if present, may also give starting direction and running torque.
Start windings don't have a duty cycle (running time) that would allow
you to use them to 'reverse' a single phase motor. All they are
designed to do is provide extra 'umph' to get the thing spinning. After
30 seconds or so, you're gonna toast them if there's direct line there.
The capacitors are simulating a out-of-phase power introduction into the
motor windings.
You cannot, for any real length of time, change the start and run leads
around or you'll ruin the motor.
BTW, most single phase fans can be caused to run in reverse if you spin
them in the reversed direction and then energize. I'd guess a scroll
might do that too if there was gas pushing it the reversed direction
(single phase only).
I can't see this happening with a recip... if it does, somebody will
have to explain it to me.
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
The thing is, Jake - the pistons will go in exactly 2
directions, regardless - they will go A ) Up and B ) Down. Period.
Sometimes in that order, sometimes in the reverse order.
But there is no such thing as 'backwards'.
TURTLE
"Stretch" <sixf...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
news:1120865856....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
This is Turtle.
Strecker , When you say reverse the wires on a single phase recep. compressor
and it will burn up. I know of NO way you can put the wires on a Copland recep.
single phase compressor and make it burn up. Now I did not stutter when i said i
know of NO way to burn one up. I'm not saying Copland is full of shit but i
think they got their wires crossed.
Strecker , 3 Phase recep. or Scholl [ How you like that Paul ? ] compressor can
be run backwards but they usely only last a few hours before burning up. I will
say I know of NO 3 Phase compressors that can be run backwards with out burning
up. Again if Copland said this , i think they are full of it.
Strecker , If a compressor is running backwards because of a wiring problem or
other rerason. It will only run at about 1/2 speed and will run hot because of
lack of freon return to cool the compressor off [ Hot Suction Line ].
Strecher , Yes a Condenser fan motor can run backwards if it breaks one service
and single phases to ground but it will onlt turn about 1/4 speed.
Where can you find out about these SPCA meetings ?
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ve9uc1ple0ccvi3l8...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
It must be bad being stuck in a trailor with just the cats and your see a hvac
contractor like turtle that has to get out in the world and see all kinds of
work and people and then you try to get him to shut up about working when you
can't. Sorry you don't have the ability or resoures to get out in the business
world and become a somebody to be able to be respected. So Be the best troll you
can be and people will remember you for it.
TURTLE
Noon-Air
I HATE SqD QO!!!!
"Jake" <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:o8Dze.146999$nG6.87977@attbi_s22...
>
Noon-Air
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:KbEze.40938$qm....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> This is Turtle.
>
> Replying to a idiot in place repys.
>
>
> <pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:0vitc1hgj0scidn45...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:37:18 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>3 ton Copeland recip compressor....240v single phase....appears to run
>>>backwards run backwards!!
>>
>> Asshole.
>>
>> If you had ONE FUCKING CLUE, you would know there is no such
>> thing in a recip.
>>
>
> if you had a brain and worked in the field you would not say the above and
> know what a recip. is.
>
>
>
>
>>>owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
>>>of weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
>>>never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
>>>truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
>>
>> You never had any to begin with. They wouldn't fit on the
>> Toyota pick-up.
I normally carry 2 of them on the truck and have a case of them in the shop
> If you had installed a disconnect in the last 20 years you would know what
> would fit on your truck or not. No Paul you can't pull you single wide
> trailor up to the job to keep parts in. all you can carry is in your truck
> only.
>
>
>
>>>Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold
>>>compressor
>>>discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
>>>the little one).
>>
>> There you go, trying to prove your technical knowledge to all
>> of us again. I'm impressed, you've improved.
>>
>
> WOW Noone finally told something to you that you understood. Good Now.
>
>
>
>>> Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused.
>>
>> What an INCREDIBLY stupid question.
>>
>> And over your head. A 3 ton unit is more than you can handle.
>>
>> Do your customers a favor, admit to them you're a clueless
>> asshole and tell them to call someone else.
Actually I did figure out what the problem was....and it wasn't the
compressor.
> No Pauly , we are not going to do what you do when a 3 ton condenser
> wipses your ass and runs from the job. Have you did any hvac work in the
> last 20 years ?
>
>
>>>reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns...
>>>but
>>>why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>>>
>>>Any ideas??
>>
>> Yeh - but I'm done fixing things for you. You're on your own
>> this time. Go ask Weasel.
>>
>> Fuck off.
Paul, you would have never figured this one out.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>>> Yeh - but I'm done fixing things for you. You're on your own
>>> this time. Go ask Weasel.
>>>
>>> Fuck off.
>
>Paul, you would have never figured this one out.
The day has never come, and never will, that you can diagnose
something **I** couldn't diagnose faster and better. And everyone
here knows it, and YOU know it.
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>Actually I did figure out what the problem was....and it wasn't the
>compressor.
No shit, sherlock.
>>> Yeh - but I'm done fixing things for you. You're on your own
>>> this time. Go ask Weasel.
>>>
>>> Fuck off.
>
>Paul, you would have never figured this one out.
This from someone who started the thread saying "This recip
compressor is spinning backwards".
What a fucking joke.
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:5kguc1ph2l9vj4nhl...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:03:39 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>> Yeh - but I'm done fixing things for you. You're on your own
>>>> this time. Go ask Weasel.
>>>>
>>>> Fuck off.
>>
>>Paul, you would have never figured this one out.
>
> The day has never come, and never will, that you can diagnose
> something **I** couldn't diagnose faster and better. And everyone
> here knows it, and YOU know it.
>
This is Turtle.
Hold'der there Nute , The Jack Ass has smelled alfalfa ! Now i know you live in
a Dream world of Single wides ! Also if you was all that good at trouble
shooting , you would be in that business and not selling hvac software from a
single wide trailor house.
Awwww Gay Paul , I have seen you VERY few time you ever tell a person what it is
but just post some website where they talk about that subject and say here is
your answer. Google is good but it does not answer the question for you but just
points you in the right direction. Pointing a person in the right direction
supplied by Google does not make a diagnosis. Also when everybody gets into a
discussion about a subject like how to work on units. i see you not say a word
till someone bring up a answer and then you look up the subject and say here is
your answer go to this website.
I just Read again what you wrote here ! LOL LOL LOL Hummm The Software salesman
tell all !
TURTLE
TURTLE
> turning it off and then back on again smoked the disconnect.
> I HATE SqD QO!!!!
>
This is Turtle.
Steve slipped one of those red Neck words on you here. In place of saying
Disconnect he wrote Disco in it place. Also it is like the word Vertibra in your
spine to be called that but down here they call the vertibra --- Vertabreaker .
I got some extra help last week and one was talking about his back trouble and
was calling his spine vertibra -- Vertibreakers . i have been tring to send it
to the Blue Collar TV show but have not got a way to get it to them for the Red
Neck Dictionary word.
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:3oguc158st4rek5vq...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:03:39 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Actually I did figure out what the problem was....and it wasn't the
>>compressor.
>
> No shit, sherlock.
>
>>>> Yeh - but I'm done fixing things for you. You're on your own
>>>> this time. Go ask Weasel.
>>>>
>>>> Fuck off.
>>
>>Paul, you would have never figured this one out.
>
> This from someone who started the thread saying "This recip
> compressor is spinning backwards".
>
> What a fucking joke.
>
This is Turtle.
Gay Paul , If you was in the business and work on this stuff everyday, you would
know that a single phase compressor can run backwards and will stop working
after just a little while. You would know also that you have to run it forward
or you will get it hot.
Your answer was What a F****** Joke. This really describes youre knownledge of
compressors for everybody in the business knows that you can run a single phase
compressor backwards and get it hot and shut down.
TURTLE
Jake
Knock this stuff off, will ya? Kevin (Stretch) already tried to tell you
you're full of BS in this matter, so quit.
Paul is right that a recip will run either direction just fine, unless
you have to go to the extreme measures of getting it 'un-stuck'. Fact
is, if you connect the start and run leads reversed you'll fail the
motor... unless you pray for a miracle and get it. Copeland is pretty
good at designing compressors, I hear. I'd trust their advice if you
don't understand how the machine works.
I don't give a shit who lives in a trailer, or who has $1,000,000.. or
whatever. I wanna get into a 'dick-swingin' contest I go the local
buildings board and deal with the politicians (-;.
You have something to contribute here.. but this crap ain't it.
Jake
PS. Steve... some of us would like to know what you found?
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>T,
>
>Knock this stuff off, will ya? Kevin (Stretch) already tried to tell you
> you're full of BS in this matter, so quit.
>
>Paul is right that a recip will run either direction just fine, unless
>you have to go to the extreme measures of getting it 'un-stuck'. Fact
>is, if you connect the start and run leads reversed you'll fail the
>motor... unless you pray for a miracle and get it. Copeland is pretty
>good at designing compressors, I hear. I'd trust their advice if you
>don't understand how the machine works.
Maybe Copeland just doesn't understand 'old ways' compressors
like Weasels Daddy taught him when he was 6 :-)
>
>I don't give a shit who lives in a trailer, or who has $1,000,000.. or
>whatever. I wanna get into a 'dick-swingin' contest I go the local
>buildings board and deal with the politicians (-;.
>
>You have something to contribute here.. but this crap ain't it.
>
>Jake
>
>PS. Steve... some of us would like to know what you found?
>
>
>
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>Paul, you would have never figured this one out.
> >
> > The day has never come, and never will, that you can diagnose
> > something **I** couldn't diagnose faster and better. And everyone
> > here knows it, and YOU know it.
> >
> > Paul
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> Hold'der there Nute , The Jack Ass has smelled alfalfa ! Now i know you live
> in
> a Dream world of Single wides ! Also if you was all that good at trouble
> shooting , you would be in that business and not selling hvac software from a
> single wide trailor house.
weasel you can't even buy a clue. Yours and noonies posts are priceless.
Both of you claim experience in the trade which makes what you post all
the more damning.
@starband.net kjpro
> I don't give a shit who lives in a trailer, or who has $1,000,000.. or
> whatever. I wanna get into a 'dick-swingin' contest I go the local
> buildings board and deal with the politicians (-;.
>
> You have something to contribute here.. but this crap ain't it.
And this is why I haven't been hanging around... got tired of the BS!
gof...@gonefishin.net
>
>Actually I did figure out what the problem was....and it wasn't the
>compressor.
>
well, what was the problem?
Barry
wrote:
>3 ton Copeland recip compressor....240v single phase....appears to run
>backwards run backwards!! owner says its not been cooling right for a couple
>of weeks. ST at the compressor is 115.8, DT at the compressor is 60 - 65
>never got to putting the gages on as the SqD QO disconnect smoked... My
>truck was out of disconnects, more on order.
>Got me wondering what with the warm compressor suction and cold compressor
>discharge (for Stormy...the suction line is the big one, and discharge is
>the little one). Don't those things have reed valves?? I'm confused. With
>reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor turns... but
>why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>
>Any ideas??
What a way to start a Saturday morning! This post, disgusts me.
The lack of knowledge discussed here is amazing. A recip compressor
can go in either direction, period end of discussion. This is
compressor anatomy 101. the only difference in a single phase and a
three phase, is the motor not the compressor. Hot suction line
usually indicates a broken discharge valve.
Barry
Noon-Air
<gof...@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:4qhvc19n5t9d5ph9l...@4ax.com...
upflow air handler with 3 ton evap coil on top, 20kw heat strips.......
Fan relay had been replaced and control mis-wired. Any time there was a call
for fan(heat, cool, fan only), the strips came on. With the evap sitting on
top of the strips, it caused extreme high temp on the ST.
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
well Jake If the part of reversing the start and run on a single phase
compressor will burn the compressor up. You fixing to teach a old dog a new
trick. Till I see it and I will try it , i will still say BULLSHIT !
Now When I was speaking to Strech about 3 Phase Piston & Scroll Compressors . i
made a error in my words as a Piston being trouble running backwards but was
thinking ''Scroll which will have trouble''. Now Who do i send the Appology to
for this one error ?
now Me Coming down on Gay Paul , Well Jake You need to take your feeling and
your girl friend out of the way when two fellows are taking care of business. as
Long as Gay Paul Refer to me as Weasel , I will be on his ass with everything
that I have to F*** him up. I have no rules and the rules are there is no rules.
Now if you want to be a pease keeper here ask Gay Paul to stop talking about me
and I will drop it. till then he is going to catch hell. Jake here is your words
set up for you to get it all to stop.
Now Gay Paul, Steve Sea Breezer, or i flaming each other , well When flaming a
person like Gay Paul is that he can use the right words at just the right time
to flame the most and not make it look like a big deal. then here comes a Turtle
and just fires flame till the cows come home and it is very effective on the
Paul typers for it leave a paper trail behind him of being flamed for tring to
run people out of a group and also being reminded that he lied by saying he
started the newsgroup alt.hvac or the other one.
Now your last statement of me or who ever has nothing to contribute here. Now
Let me explain something to you. Paul started this flame war and decided that i
had to be run off from the group and I say again started this flame war in the
beginning. All Gay Paul has to say is i stop the flame wear and stop flaming me
and it is all over with. Till that time don't expect me to put up with his
stupid words of slander and not say something about it.
So E-mail or ask Paul here to stop this flame war and you will get a surprise
you never thought. Gay Paul will Rott in hell before he stops this flame war and
will use you as a piece of fire wood to build another flame war somewhere else.
Try it and see what he says!
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:18luc19juuld0mhmo...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 04:35:27 GMT, Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com>
> wrote:
>
>>T,
>>
>>Knock this stuff off, will ya? Kevin (Stretch) already tried to tell you
>> you're full of BS in this matter, so quit.
>>
>>Paul is right that a recip will run either direction just fine, unless
>>you have to go to the extreme measures of getting it 'un-stuck'. Fact
>>is, if you connect the start and run leads reversed you'll fail the
>>motor... unless you pray for a miracle and get it. Copeland is pretty
>>good at designing compressors, I hear. I'd trust their advice if you
>>don't understand how the machine works.
>
> Maybe Copeland just doesn't understand 'old ways' compressors
> like Weasels Daddy taught him when he was 6 :-)
>
This is Turtle.
Gay Paul , you need to get with Sea Breezer and party a little in the bed and
you will not be so upset all the time.
OH By the way was you talking about a scroll , piston, or Screw type
compressors. Can you run a scroll backwards and not hurt it ?
TURTLE
gof...@gonefishin.net
<Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>turning it off and then back on again smoked the disconnect.
>I HATE SqD QO!!!!
would you surmise the QO was defective or was it something
on the load side that caused the QO to smoke?
If you dislike SqD QO so much, try their D221NRB fused
disconnects.
Noon-Air
<gof...@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:iblvc1h322e9pjnpt...@4ax.com...
Every SqD QO disconnect I have ever installed, I have had to replace it
within 5 years when it let the factory smoke out or the switch just plain
quit working. For the last 5 years, I have only been using GE or Seimans
disconnects that take Homeline style breakers and have never had a failure
with them
Stormin Mormon
start and run.
I had a friend of mine who found out that if he plugged and unplugged an
analog clock enough times, he could get it to run backwards. He thought that
was kinda neat.
I'm sure I could do the same thing by dissembling the motor, and reversing
it. Used to reverse motors when I worked on coolers. Pull them apart, and
reverse the flat metal plates.
Thank you for helping clarify.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Jake" <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:NCFze.137406$x96.49418@attbi_s72...
gof...@gonefishin.net
<Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Every SqD QO disconnect I have ever installed, I have had to replace it
>within 5 years when it let the factory smoke out or the switch just plain
>quit working. For the last 5 years, I have only been using GE or Seimans
>disconnects that take Homeline style breakers and have never had a failure
>with them
>
out of curiosity, why do you prefer a breaker as a means
of disconnect, rather than a fused disconnect?
Stormin Mormon
usually not insullated)
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:97SdnUwJAcY...@comcast.com...
geoman
I've never seen a unit where the evaporator is over the heaters, I have only
seen the heaters downstream from the evap.
What Brand is this air handler?
Rich
geoman
Strange, I run into these all the time and haven't found one that was ever
replaced or defective.......
We don't install these anyway, but I do run across them.
We ALWAYS install fused disconnects even if code doesn't require it. I like
working on systems that offer some form of protection, and circuit breakers
or stab/pull outs just don't get in my opinion.
I STRONGLY recommend that everyone use Time Delay Link FUSES in an approved
fused disconnect. If you ever saw the video of a circuit breaker exploding
on a shorted system you would be convinced of their importance.
Another thing about fuses that are nice. If you have them blow for no
apparent reason you can diagnose a problem with fuses where you can't with a
circuit breaker.
Fact, there are fuses available that are rebuildable. If you use them on a
system giving you fits with blown fuses it will tell you if the unit blew
the fuse because of a short or an overload, much like the time delay fuses
that you screw in. I had a 20 ton unit that would blow a fuse once and a
while. It indicated a direct short, therefore we started pulling all the
wires in all the conduits and found a wire that was shorting out once and a
while due to a nick. This nick would vibrate to the metal and short out.
When it shorted out it pushed away from the conduit and then a few weeks
later it blew again. IF the fuse indicated an overloaded condition then we
would be looking at bearings or other possible problems and not shorts.
Rich
Rich
TURTLE
"Barry" <b2b...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ashvc1pkngqi0h9il...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
The Words you speak are right but when it comes to a real piston single phase
compressor really running backwards . Now by what means did it start running
backwards. the words of yours of the pump or compressor can run backwards but
the motor is what i'm speaking about and not the pump. A Single phase HVAC
compressor is designed to run in one direction ! then I reverse start and Run on
the terminals on the compressor which will reverse the direction of the
compressor rotation. It will not work like this long before it will run hot.
So If you wanted to choose the direction of the rotation of the compressor , you
would have to go back and decide when the compressor was put together to change
this for it is designed to run in one direction. Now I do take that you know
reversing start and run terminal on the single phase and not 3 phase compressor
will make it run in reverse , Right !
3 Phase motors / compressor can run in reverse direction , but scroll and single
phase can not run in reverse direction because of design.
TURTLE
TURTLE
>> OK, I gotta ask. Reverse which wires?
>>
>> As I understand, single phase 220, the leads are identical (if out of phase
>> with each other). So, if you put the black on the red terminal, and the red
>> on the black, it oughta work out the same.
>>
>> Do you mean reverse start and run? I thought refrigeration compressors had a
>> C/S/R terminal block.
>>
>> Or change which lead gets the capacitor?
>>
>
>
> Chris, we covered this a while back, but briefly:
>
> Single phase motors of this type get their running direction from a start cap,
> which gives both direction and start-torque.
>
> Run caps, if present, may also give starting direction and running torque.
>
> Start windings don't have a duty cycle (running time) that would allow you to
> use them to 'reverse' a single phase motor. All they are designed to do is
> provide extra 'umph' to get the thing spinning. After 30 seconds or so, you're
> gonna toast them if there's direct line there.
>
> The capacitors are simulating a out-of-phase power introduction into the motor
> windings.
>
> You cannot, for any real length of time, change the start and run leads around
> or you'll ruin the motor.
>
> BTW, most single phase fans can be caused to run in reverse if you spin them
> in the reversed direction and then energize. I'd guess a scroll might do that
> too if there was gas pushing it the reversed direction (single phase only).
>
> I can't see this happening with a recip... if it does, somebody will have to
> explain it to me.
>
> Jake
This is Turtle
On a single phase 220 volt HVAC compressor , you switch the start and run
terminals on the compressor. the compressor will run backwards at about 1/2
speed. It will pump but will soon get hot and cut out. I have seen compressor
miss wired like this and be run week on end and not screw up [ burn up ] . They
will just get hot and cut out on high temp.
Now if this is not true which I have seen it be true and was told by hvac people
all my life. Your fixing to teach a old dog a new trick.
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:c3auc1h1qk3rg967l...@4ax.com...
> directions, regardless - they will go A ) Up and B ) Down. Period.
> Sometimes in that order, sometimes in the reverse order.
>
> But there is no such thing as 'backwards'.
>
> Paul
This is Turtle.
Book Boys don't know about reversing single phase compressors with start and run
terminals and they will only run at 1/2 speed. Then the Book Boy will will come
out with replys like there is no such thing as backwards. You need to get out
and work on some equipment every 20 years or so.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"geoman" <Geo...@geomna2.com> wrote in message
news:rP-dnfQjKZ0...@adelphia.com...
This is Turtle.
Years ago I bought a case of them at a sale on them at the warehouse and put
them on every condenser we installed. There was maybe 36 of them in the case and
I had to replace over half of them in the first 5 to 8 years. It is the dummy
breaker that is the problem and if you replace it with a real Square D breaker
it will hold up for a life time.
TURTLE
RP
My evaporator sits over the heaters. It's worked fine for 27 years. If
OTOH you have a heat pump then this configuration won't work very well
unless the heaters are disconnected or locked out in HP mode.
My compadres did however run across a heat pump thursday that was set up
like this. Brand had nothing to do with it--somebody had pulled the
coil out of the A/H and put a boxed coil on top (upflow unit). They're
going back Monday to install a coil back in the A/H. The boxed coil is
straddled halfway between the closet and attic, and it's facing left,
with it's face about 10in from the wall. Glad I didn't get that one :)
hvacrmedic
Noon-Air
<gof...@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:rknvc1liqrpm7um87...@4ax.com...
A breaker, hands down...then there is no way anybody can stick a piece of
copper pipe in there or wrap the burnt fuse with aluminium foil to try to
make it work.
I try to make dangerous stuff as HO proof as possible.
Noon-Air
Old RUUD with a date code that says 2nd week of 82
BTW... no heat pump.... straight a/c w/electric heat
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:17:21 -0500, "TURTLE"
<turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>This is Turtle.
>
>Strecker , When you say reverse the wires on a single phase recep.
>compressor and it will burn up. I know of NO way you can put the
>wires on a Copland recep. single phase compressor and make it burn
>up. Now I did not stutter when i said i know of NO way to burn one
>up. I'm not saying Copland is full of shit but i think they got
>their wires crossed.
I think it is possible to cross the start and run windings (one hot
for each).
Switch these, and it'll burn right up.
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=kyV8
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:37:18 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> I'm confused. With
>reed valves, it shouldn't matter what direction the compressor
>turns... but why the hot suction and cold discharge temps??
>
>Any ideas??
Without checking pressures, it's hard to tell.
Valves can cause strange symptoms when they go bad.
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iQA/AwUBQs/53AIk7T39FC4ZEQKuOQCgygtkJOwTvx+7xBwi2DcTpr7Mk3UAoPxj
MXPjAWaTGq9952wB/llCKlM/
=/yPs
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
all Rheem made before 1990 was on top.
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Oh, that's such a tricky one. You're right, I NEVER would
have figured it out.
You're so wonderful.
You MISSED this simple shit the first call ???? Geez ....
TURTLE
"~^Johnny^~" <nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote in message
news:rfuvc1pf3dbndtlni...@4ax.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:17:21 -0500, "TURTLE"
> <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>This is Turtle.
>>
>>Strecker , When you say reverse the wires on a single phase recep.
>>compressor and it will burn up. I know of NO way you can put the
>>wires on a Copland recep. single phase compressor and make it burn
>>up. Now I did not stutter when i said i know of NO way to burn one
>>up. I'm not saying Copland is full of shit but i think they got
>>their wires crossed.
>
>
> I think it is possible to cross the start and run windings (one hot
> for each).
> Switch these, and it'll burn right up.
>
> --
This is Turtle.
Tried it years ago and it don't work.
TURTLE
RP
TURTLE wrote:
Turtle, If you come in here spouting real world shit then you'll throw
everybody for a loop. Wassup wit dat?
I had a fellow tech once reverse Common and Run and didn't burn the
compressor up. He thought the compressor had locked up on him and was
trying quickstarts and reversing it. Of course when he reversed it he
then had run on common, common on start, and start on common. Still
didn't burn up. Now I don't know how this compressor didn't burn up,
because those in the know keep telling us that it will burn up. Jake
should have known better from the last round on this topic, but I guess
he went away still believing what his books told him :) You can run a
condenser fan motor backward till hell freezes over, it ain't gonna
burn. It'll get hot and kick out on the internal line break, maybe,
depends on the outdoor temp and the air over the motor. As you say,
it'll run about 1/2 speed.
hvacrmedic
geoman
I take back what I said earlier, A Williamson we worked on last month had
the heaters stuck on and the coil was installed above them. But this is an
OLD system, Pre 1980"s, so you ran into the same situation I ran into last
June, I posted this problem on the group here because it screwed up my head
due to the heaters turning on and off just at the right time so my pressures
were screwed up but no my temperatures inside when I got there to read them!
Today I don't think UL or common sense could allow the coil past the
elements. The new coils with plastic pans overheating due to the radiant
heaters isn't a great idea ;-)
I would tell them they need a complete new air handler or risk burning down
their home. The coil your replacing most likely has a metal pan and the one
your putting in has a plastic one. If the unit catch's on fire or cracks the
pan your liable.
Rich
You stated that you install them
"RP" <no_mail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:srOdnbeM0qu...@centurytel.net...
geoman
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:80Tze.52156$Tt.4...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
That would be ok since they had metal pans, but not for today's plastic
condensate pans.
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:g6vvc15v9k0mkjsq6...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:30:57 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><gof...@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>>news:4qhvc19n5t9d5ph9l...@4ax.com...
>>> "Noon-Air" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Actually I did figure out what the problem was....and it wasn't the
>>>>compressor.
>>>>
>>> well, what was the problem?
>>
>>upflow air handler with 3 ton evap coil on top, 20kw heat strips.......
>>Fan relay had been replaced and control mis-wired. Any time there was a call
>>for fan(heat, cool, fan only), the strips came on. With the evap sitting on
>>top of the strips, it caused extreme high temp on the ST.
>>
>
> Oh, that's such a tricky one. You're right, I NEVER would
> have figured it out.
>
> You're so wonderful.
>
> You MISSED this simple shit the first call ???? Geez ....
>
This is Turtle.
I did not hear or see any answer of yours as to what it was by yourself as the
threads went on. Then here you claim to know what it was before Noone Told you
what it was. WOW Trolling again Gay Paul.
TURTLE
RP
geoman wrote:
Do you think a furnace runs any cooler? How many upflow furnaces have
the coil underneath?
hvacrmedic
Noon-Air
> Steve,
>
> I take back what I said earlier, A Williamson we worked on last month had
> the heaters stuck on and the coil was installed above them. But this is an
> OLD system, Pre 1980"s, so you ran into the same situation I ran into last
> June, I posted this problem on the group here because it screwed up my
> head due to the heaters turning on and off just at the right time so my
> pressures were screwed up but no my temperatures inside when I got there
> to read them!
>
> Today I don't think UL or common sense could allow the coil past the
> elements. The new coils with plastic pans overheating due to the radiant
> heaters isn't a great idea ;-)
>
> I would tell them they need a complete new air handler or risk burning
> down their home. The coil your replacing most likely has a metal pan and
> the one your putting in has a plastic one. If the unit catch's on fire or
> cracks the pan your liable.
>
> Rich
Rich,
I have disabled the sequencers and informed the owner.... BTW, this is in a
commercial application. I have also informed the owner about the pending 13+
SEER change. I imagin I will be installing a new system for him before long.
RP
TURTLE wrote:
What I see wrong in this flaming war is flames from both sides that
don't fit. If something was incorrect, then fine, but both sides have
been chastising the other for good calls. In this case Noon-Air was
wrong, the discharge wasn't 60degF, no fucking way. Paul +1, even if he
was too belligerent about it.
hvacrmedic
Jake
>
> Now your last statement of me or who ever has nothing to contribute here.
That is not what I said, T... quite the contrary, in fact...
>>You have something to contribute here.. but this crap ain't it.
Whether you now it or not, your 'mission' of replying to some bullshit
remark by Paul or whoever with MORE bullshit does not contribute anything.
When you provide good input in a technical discussion, or just even
adding to the commentary of the community here, you are contributing and
it is appreciated in some quarters.
But just petty name calling for the sake of it does not contribute...
whether it's you, Paul, Bill or whoever doing it. kinda reminds me of a
bunch of kids in a school yard hollering names at each other over the
fence... it's loud but nothing ever comes of it.
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
RP
gof...@gonefishin.net wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 21:56:58 -0500, "Noon-Air"
> <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>turning it off and then back on again smoked the disconnect.
>>I HATE SqD QO!!!!
>
> would you surmise the QO was defective or was it something
> on the load side that caused the QO to smoke?
About 1 out of every 10 SqD QO disconnect breakers that I have ever
switched off have failed to reset. They're trash. This is very common
knowledge in my area; I've overheard many other techs from other
companies repeating the same lines such as "I had to go in and find the
indoor breaker because you KNOW DAMN WELL that that QO won't reset."
hvacrmedic
geoman
My experience says a great deal cooler for sure. The radiant heat from the
elements are a lot higher than the radiant heat from the exchanger. I've
never seen a heat exchanger turn red unless the fan and limit were both bad.
But I have seen a great deal of electric elements turn red to almost white
just because of improper air patterns or dirt on the fan etc. This is an
indication of a much hotter situation due to the heat spectrum alone.
A few times I have seen flex duct connectors melt due to radiant heat from
electric elements but never on an exchanger system.
Jake
> compressor up. He thought the compressor had locked up on him and was
> trying quickstarts and reversing it. Of course when he reversed it he
> then had run on common, common on start, and start on common.
> Still didn't burn up.
RP, that is simply wrong. Draw out a circuit on any single phase motor
with 3 leads brought out (R, S, C) and what you describe will not work.
I'd urge you to see Copeland's Engineering Bulletin AE-1209-R1. It
addresses PSC motors specifically but many of the same concepts apply
http://www.customer-copeland-corp.com/images/opi/Types/AEB/TAE1209.PDF
It does a far better job of graphically explaining this that I ever could.
> Still
> didn't burn up. Now I don't know how this compressor didn't burn up,
> because those in the know keep telling us that it will burn up. Jake
> should have known better from the last round on this topic, but I guess
> he went away still believing what his books told him :)
It ain't books, man. It's real-life. While my preference is three phase
motors, I've done my share of replacements with singles which were
incorrectly wired exactly as you describe.
You can run a
> condenser fan motor backward till hell freezes over, it ain't gonna
> burn. It'll get hot and kick out on the internal line break, maybe,
> depends on the outdoor temp and the air over the motor. As you say,
> it'll run about 1/2 speed.
Maybe so.... but why the heck would you want to run it at half-speed
while consistently overheating/shutting down the thing.... and WHY would
you rely on the internal motor protector do the the work (which has a
limited life-span) instead of just fixing whatever's causing the MP to trip.
Not to mention what happens while that condenser fan is tripped and no
effective condensing gets done... hope the refer circuit has pressure
switches in it (-;.
Jake
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
i see you speak to people here that has good common sence to try to get them to
stop the stupid flaming game going on , but I see not you or anybody speaking to
GOD Paul about just stopping the Flame game going on. I know he is filled with
hatred so much that you just can't talk to him without having a subject of
hatred or disrespect to talk about. I know GOD Paul is full of hatred but If you
want this to come to a end in a second if GOD Paul will stop saying
disrespectful words about me and it is all over. Till then GOD Paul is fair game
to fire on.
If you want to stop all this , just ask GOD Paul to stop and it is over with !
If GOD Paul does not talk about me / I say nothing about him. Now like i have
old GOD Paul wired up with hatred, you don't have a chance of talking to him
with any sence of the word respect at all. He is in full hate mode and beyond
the reach of good sence. You can try now !
Now for Steve Sea Weed - GOD Paul's Minion and Billy Bob !
Sea Weed -- If he don't say anything to me I say nothing to him. i don't fire on
him unless he fires or speaks to me or about me.
Billy Bob --- I just PLONKED him for he is too stupid to carry on a conversation
with him and was really described in the New Red Neck Handbook by Bo Whaley. I
think Bo was talking about Billy Bob when he wrote his Handbook. The #4 most
used Red Neck Name is Billy Bob even when the bob is not in his name ! It usely
is a nick name for drowning in the river and he was bobing up and down.
TURTLE
Jake
> within 5 years when it let the factory smoke out or the switch just plain
> quit working. For the last 5 years, I have only been using GE or Seimans
> disconnects that take Homeline style breakers and have never had a failure
> with them
>
>
One question, Steve.... are you putting HACR breakers in those discos? I
think most of even SQD Homeline's are HACR 'listed', but quite a few of
the QO's are not, because the product line is so large and it goes into
a lot of specialties.
Jake
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:u320d1dlah54j56p6...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
Yes , I know going in there and disabling the heat is beyond your ability but
some techs can really do stuff like this. If you would ask him he would tell you
how he did it and then when your heat pump in your trailor broke you would know
how to work on them.
Yes I know Paul , you think this HVAC business is space work , but if you just
look closely at it, it can be understood easily. If you study real hard you can
turn the God Help him into a Hey I'm a Good Tech.
TURTLE
RP
Why would you assume that I wired it that way, rather than perhaps that
I found it that way. You should've known better.
Now let me clarify the compressor situation with you, reversing the
rotation by switching start and run will not burn the windings. I'm not
going to say that this will hold 100% of the time, but I will say I've
never burned a compressor in 25years of doing exactly this to unstick
them. That's 100% of my experience, and I'll assume without hesitation
that neither would these have burned up on you. Granted, I only run
them backward long enough to unstick them, but still I doubt that there
is any immediate danger of winding failure. The load is substantially
reduced in reverse direction because the rpm is lower and the internal
line break should do its job when overheating becomes excessive.
I will say that if you connect 240 directly across start and run it will
burn up in short order, since there is no line break in this circuit.
That doesn't mean that it will absolutely burn, there are caveats and
exceptions.
I think most of the time people are too quick on the draw; in every case
of human conversation there are certain details that are supposed to be
implicit. Too many to enumerate. If we were all careful enough to
narrow these down, then every post would have the appearance of Newton's
Principia, with every conceivable misunderstanding addressed in the form
of explicit definitions of the terms used. That Turtle's posts can
often be taken to be incorrect when taken at face value is unimportant
to me, I fill in the blanks and don't assume too much. He's been
correct in the end more times than some are willing to give him credit
for. Now he has made his share of errors, but I haven't seen how anyone
here has a perfect record in that regard. Paul has been incorrect on
several points as well.
Regardless of what any literature might contain, the empirical evidence
is the prime source of truth.
hvacrmedic
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>I think most of the time people are too quick on the draw; in every case
>of human conversation there are certain details that are supposed to be
>implicit. Too many to enumerate. If we were all careful enough to
>narrow these down, then every post would have the appearance of Newton's
>Principia, with every conceivable misunderstanding addressed in the form
>of explicit definitions of the terms used. That Turtle's posts can
>often be taken to be incorrect when taken at face value is unimportant
>to me, I fill in the blanks and don't assume too much. He's been
>correct in the end more times than some are willing to give him credit
>for. Now he has made his share of errors, but I haven't seen how anyone
>here has a perfect record in that regard. Paul has been incorrect on
>several points as well.
And when I am, I say so, flat out, and I learn something.
Weasel denies it, says 'Awwww, shucks, you just don't
understand 'old ways ice' or 'old ways air' or 'old ways compressors'
and 'My Daddy taught me this when I was running service calls at the
age of 6', or whatever, and if you don't accept that hack bullshit,
his ongoing case of rabies acts up on him and off he goes.
Jake
> 3 Phase motors / compressor can run in reverse direction , but scroll and single
> phase can not run in reverse direction because of design.
>
> TURTLE
>
Is my understanding correct that a scroll, whether a 3 phase or
single... as far as the mechanicals go and *not* the motor (for single
phase) will mechanically run in reverse, but that backward washes the
oil out of it... plus it wouldn't pump anything?
Jake
Jake
> of human conversation there are certain details that are supposed to be
> implicit.
You may be right here, RP. I was commenting only in the context of the
original post, and then the subject matter wandered off in about 10
different directions.
I agree what you stated might be possible for 'unsticking' purposes
only... but not for running more than a few seconds.
Perhaps I was 'too quick on the draw' here.
Jake
TURTLE
This is Turtle
Look Richard , i have the highest respect for you but Look when flaming a
Asshole like Paul I don't have the time to be correct all the time. When calling
in fire on a asshole like Paul you will have some colateral damage and the only
way to get to him is just put more on him that he can reply to. The part about
+1 or -1 has no meaning in flaming at high speed , but only Paul is use to
waiting for a score of somekind after a flame session. i have no need of score
but only just put it on him as fast as you can.
So , Don't expect me to have a score card in my hand , but just flame in Gay
Pauls posted Messages. Now if you would like to see this all come to a end , You
can talk to Gay Paul and get him to stop speaking about me in his post and all
this will stop. till them the flame stays.
TURTLE
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> So , Don't expect me to have a score card in my hand , but just flame in Gay
> Pauls posted Messages. Now if you would like to see this all come to a end ,
> You
> can talk to Gay Paul and get him to stop speaking about me in his post and
> all
> this will stop. till them the flame stays.
Lying hack bastard. That why you send emails and flap your gums every
chance you get.
Snapping it off in your ass and hearing you scream is music.
Post some more lying hack shit weasel.
--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
Bill
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> And when I am, I say so, flat out, and I learn something.
>
> Weasel denies it, says 'Awwww, shucks, you just don't
> understand 'old ways ice' or 'old ways air' or 'old ways compressors'
> and 'My Daddy taught me this when I was running service calls at the
> age of 6', or whatever, and if you don't accept that hack bullshit,
> his ongoing case of rabies acts up on him and off he goes.
The lying bastard is the hack poster boy.
Stretch
be a local chapter near you. RSES stands for Refrigeration Service
Engineers Society. Their Motto is "Better Service Through Knowledge".
I have been a member since 1983. Joining RSES is one of the best
things I ever did. About $100.00 to join, about $75.00 per year after
the first year. You get an educational magazine with the dues. And
access to lots of other good stuff. Highly recommended!
If you reverse the start and run connections, the run winding will be
directly across the power line with no capacitor in series to limit the
currect. Yes, it will fry quickly. Copeland did the video with the
tin can opened up. The magic smoke comes out real fast.
Stretch
Stretch
will go sky high when the strips come on (in heat mode). If the strips
are after the coil, that will not be a problem. With an AC & furnace,
you do not run the heat and cool at the same time (I Hope!), so it is
not a problem. In a heat pump you should not heat and cool at the same
time either, unless you are using reheat to run the humidity down.
Stretch
Stretch
Stretch
Stretch
Is my understanding correct that a scroll, whether a 3 phase or
single... as far as the mechanicals go and *not* the motor (for single
phase) will mechanically run in reverse, but that backward washes the
oil out of it... plus it wouldn't pump anything?
Jake,
A scroll running backwards is very loud and will overheat real fast,
tripping the overload. It won't pump worth a damn. I never heard that
it would pump the oil out, but it is possible.
Stretch
Noon-Air
>> Every SqD QO disconnect I have ever installed, I have had to replace it
>> within 5 years when it let the factory smoke out or the switch just plain
>> quit working. For the last 5 years, I have only been using GE or Seimans
>> disconnects that take Homeline style breakers and have never had a
>> failure with them
>>
>>
>
> One question, Steve.... are you putting HACR breakers in those discos?
Absolutely
> I think most of even SQD Homeline's are HACR 'listed', but quite a few of
> the QO's are not, because the product line is so large and it goes into a
> lot of specialties.
I don't even think the switches they put in those QO disconnect boxes are
HACR rated.
> Jake
bill
"Stretch" <sixf...@sccoast.net> wrote:
> It is RSES Turtle.
snip
Waste of breath Stretch. weasel doesn't give a shit.
TURTLE
"Bill" <sn...@hvac2.com> wrote in message
news:snap-A7E673.1...@news-rdr-01.ohiordc.rr.com...
> In article <LhWze.45131$qm.1...@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> So , Don't expect me to have a score card in my hand , but just flame in Gay
>> Pauls posted Messages. Now if you would like to see this all come to a end ,
>> You
>> can talk to Gay Paul and get him to stop speaking about me in his post and
>> all
>> this will stop. till them the flame stays.
>
> Lying hack bastard. That why you send emails and flap your gums every
> chance you get.
>
> Snapping it off in your ass and hearing you scream is music.
>
> Post some more lying hack shit weasel.
>
This is turtle.
I don't have time to read you garbage now. PLONK !
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
First i have been wrong a bunch of times and have no problem telling you about
it.
Second i run a test on a Copland 36k btu 220 volt Piston Compressor about 10
years ago to try to win a bet on a compressor burning up by miss wiring it. The
fellow told me that i could not burn up a compressor no way you would miss wire
it. I aimed to just burn his ass and take some money from him and a good
bullshitter is alway good for a quick picking of a $100.00 Bill. I got a Copland
single phase compressor in a trade and it was about 6 months old and come off a
job with it still running. here is the Test.
i electrically hooked up the compressor up like it should be with capasitor in
line and just like it would be if installed in a condenser. i run it for 5
minutes and it run good pumping air.
I reversed the start and run terminal as to reverse the direction and put the
power to it. the compressor run good but at about 1/2 speed for about 15
minutes. Then it cut out on high temp. then in about 15 minutes it turned back
on and run another 5 minutes. I let it go like this for 4 hours and compressor
was still running every time after it over heated.
Then I just took two 220 volt service lines and tied one to the Run terminal and
the other to the Start terminal. this made a circuit that would not go through
the temperature safety high but by pass it all together. i let it buzz like this
for about 4 hours and the compressor got so hot you could cook eggs on it but
never burn up. Outdoor temp was 75ºF . The thing operated like this for more
than 4 hours like and not any damage at all.
I wired it back up right and it would pull a 26 inch vacuum running in a blocked
off suction line.
So I'm not tring to prove anything here but tell you what took place when i
thought that they would burn up by misswiring the compressor in someway and also
pick me up a $100.00 bill off a turkey and got fooled when I checked it out to
see.
None of the above are facts from a book or referance material and nothing but
what i watch happen at one point in time.
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:45a0d1pqe2obf7e14...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:24:32 -0500, RP <no_mail...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I think most of the time people are too quick on the draw; in every case
>>of human conversation there are certain details that are supposed to be
>>implicit. Too many to enumerate. If we were all careful enough to
>>narrow these down, then every post would have the appearance of Newton's
>>Principia, with every conceivable misunderstanding addressed in the form
>>of explicit definitions of the terms used. That Turtle's posts can
>>often be taken to be incorrect when taken at face value is unimportant
>>to me, I fill in the blanks and don't assume too much. He's been
>>correct in the end more times than some are willing to give him credit
>>for. Now he has made his share of errors, but I haven't seen how anyone
>>here has a perfect record in that regard. Paul has been incorrect on
>>several points as well.
>
> And when I am, I say so, flat out, and I learn something.
>
> Weasel denies it, says 'Awwww, shucks, you just don't
> understand 'old ways ice' or 'old ways air' or 'old ways compressors'
> and 'My Daddy taught me this when I was running service calls at the
> age of 6', or whatever, and if you don't accept that hack bullshit,
> his ongoing case of rabies acts up on him and off he goes.
>
This is Turtle.
Gay Pauly , all through the years I have been here watching you bullshit your
way through some threads as to knowing about that subject. I have never seen you
admitt not one time you every said you was wrong in the smallest way. So the
above statement is false.
The Rambling about what you think is the case of my younger years in the HVAC/R
business sounds like you really got your facts in order here, but there is one
thing that makes it all false. When I was 6 years old in my father HVAC/R
business you was not old enough to even know where Oakdale, Louisiana is or how
to call there. The HVAC/R Company service telephone number was 717-A and you had
to call the operator to make a call in town. So the facts that you state here
could not have been gotten by you at that tikme and for years after you probley
never heard of Oakdale, Louisiana up till you felt the need to lie about a
turtle there. So i hope you can enjoy you ability to lie and still feel good
about yourself in the morning and have respect for yourself. i could not do it
but you must not have any respect to bother you.
TURTLE
RP
Stretch wrote:
I think I already said this. I don't dispute your knowledge base, but
this is a case in keeping with my reply to Jake, people should really
not be so quick on the draw.
hvacrmedic
RP
TURTLE wrote:
Well Turtle, this is usenet, maybe you should "grow a thicker skin".
hvacrmedic
TURTLE
"Stretch" <sixf...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
news:1120945827.2...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
This is Turtle.
Well , With No disrespect at all , what you just said reversing the start with
the run terminal and try to run backwards and then you say you seen a vidio
where the compressor fried in short order and really doing this to see. Well You
just went against what i seen in watching and seeing what goes on in the hvac/r
business for the last 40+ years. I'm not saying you did not see this vidio where
the compressor fried but i have tried my best to burn one up like this and run
it for hours and never did burn it up at all. If it will do this hooked up to a
hvac system and burn up -- You will teach a old dog a new trick.
Yes Stretch , i know it is the RSES but we don't have any chapter withing 100
miles. There was one in Lake Charles, Louisiana but chapter is being switched to
Banton Rouge , Louisiana 150 miles away. Now I use the SPCA , you know the help
the animal group, because we have one of them but no RSES at all.
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>
>TURTLE wrote:
>> This is Weasel
>>
>> Look Richard , i have the highest respect for you but Look when flaming a
>> Asshole like Paul I don't have the time to be correct all the time. When calling
>> in fire on a asshole like Paul you will have some colateral damage and the only
You pompous little worm. God, but your'e sure a big man
behind a keyboard from 1,000 miles away. If we ever met face to face,
you'd be dribbling down the inside of your pant leg before we even got
within arms reach.
>> way to get to him is just put more on him that he can reply to. The part about
>> +1 or -1 has no meaning in flaming at high speed , but only Paul is use to
>> waiting for a score of somekind after a flame session. i have no need of score
>> but only just put it on him as fast as you can.
>>
>> So , Don't expect me to have a score card in my hand , but just flame in Gay
>> Pauls posted Messages. Now if you would like to see this all come to a end , You
>> can talk to Gay Paul and get him to stop speaking about me in his post and all
>> this will stop. till them the flame stays.
>>
>> TURTLE
>
>Well Turtle, this is usenet, maybe you should "grow a thicker skin".
Maybe he should go find something tall and fall off again.
RP
Stretch wrote:
> It is RSES Turtle. Go to their web site: www.rses.org. There should
> be a local chapter near you. RSES stands for Refrigeration Service
> Engineers Society. Their Motto is "Better Service Through Knowledge".
> I have been a member since 1983. Joining RSES is one of the best
> things I ever did. About $100.00 to join, about $75.00 per year after
> the first year. You get an educational magazine with the dues. And
> access to lots of other good stuff. Highly recommended!
>
> If you reverse the start and run connections, the run winding will be
> directly across the power line with no capacitor in series to limit the
> currect.
Didn't you mean to say " the *start* winding?
Yes, it will fry quickly.
The Bristol two-speed will quickly burn up in low speed ;)
Copeland did the video with the
> tin can opened up. The magic smoke comes out real fast.
>
> Stretch
How did they wire it?
hvacrmedic
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Yes I do have a tuff skin if i wanted to use it. The reason i don't use it is
Gay Paul run off from the alt.hvac group some of the best people in the hvac/r
business and would laugh about it as a prize to him to run them off. I have seen
bunch of professionals looking for a place like this to discuss hvac/r business
and come here and first thing out of the box Paul would find out what they knew
about the business. Then if they knew more that him. He would start getting to
make them leave with little pokes at them and then full out flame to get them to
leave. Gay Paul can't have anybody here that might know more than he does and
will slowly get rid of them one by one. Now if you will suck up to him and let
him tell you any lie he wants. He will let you stay around till you break the
rule ''''' Don't correct Paul '''''' .
Bunches have come through but very few staied because of Gay Paul flaming them.
So all the professionals that Gay Paul run off in the past, i'm flaming Gay Paul
for everyone of them. So you know the story now.
Now about Gay Paul saying to stop all this is not going to happen for his Hatred
has grown to a point where flaming me and the few other is his objective in
life. I have said all alone if he would stop the flaming of myself, it would be
over with totally , which just eggs him on in his hatred to flame me some more.
Now me to hate Gay Paul , well I can never hate a poor mined troll like Gay Paul
but only feel sorrow for him in his fight with his problem with his EGO and not
making it in life. I guess I should let him claim the making of the two HVAC/R
newsgroup so he could say he did Something in life to feel to be somebody. i may
think about letting him claim that.
TURTLE
bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> the animal group, because we have one of them but no RSES at all.
>
> TURTLE
RSES isn't for you. They have books. Better you hang with the sheep
people.
TURTLE
>>> Asshole like Paul I don't have the time to be correct all the time. When
>>> calling
>>> in fire on a asshole like Paul you will have some colateral damage and the
>>> only
>
> You pompous little worm. God, but your'e sure a big man
> behind a keyboard from 1,000 miles away. If we ever met face to face,
> you'd be dribbling down the inside of your pant leg before we even got
> within arms reach.
>
This is Turtle.
LOL LOL LOL , Boy you got a EGO problem.
Gay Paul Awwww LOL LOL LOL , Hold here a minute get me a minute here. OK , Gay
Paul you don't have the weight on you or the upper body strength to deal with
200+ Pound Fighters. The only advantage you would have is you being light
weight. You could out run the fellow. Now the only way you could measure up
would that you had some Marshal Arts training which you don't have for in any of
these Marshal Arts the first thing that they teach you is Respect for yourself
and other too. If you go to any Marshal Art Games and you do not show respect
for the other person your fighting. The will throw you out of the games and pull
your belt registeration. So You don't have respect for others or even yourself
and you would not have been able to be trained in the Marshal Arts in the USA.
Now if you have big money you can be trained in Japan or Korea and be train
without respect at all. You don't have that kind of money and neither do I.
Well what i just told you was Gay Paul you ain't got a snow ball of a chance in
hell of taking me in a open mate fight with sinsa setting in at all. All I can
say is your mouth just over loaded your butt here.
Info Here.
7 years in the art of Judo game play and has purple belt.
2 times second place winner in Judo for the state champion ship of Louisiana.
5 years as women self-defence instructor for Women at L.S.U.-Alexandria and has
Brown Belt in Judgitsu.
No Terniments in the U.S.A. but have them over seas. I went to one in Mexico
City years back and well I got my butt kicked. These people eat and sleep the
games and a regular type marshal arts guy has not got a chance. They had 9th
Degree Red Sash that you would fight. These fellow was started working out in
the Marshal Arts when they were 2 years old and did nothing all their life but
the Marshal Arts working out and the terniments.
So Big Boy Gay Paul , Come on down and get you some ! You have my address and
phone number and also I don't see a anchor tied on your ass.
LOL LOL LOL Just a minute , OK.
TURTLE
RP
geoman wrote:
> "RP" <no_mail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ZrSdnVCUKfQ...@centurytel.net...
>
>>
>>geoman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:80Tze.52156$Tt.4...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"geoman" <Geo...@geomna2.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:D-2dnfKKpcL...@adelphia.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:97SdnUwJAcY...@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>><gof...@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:4qhvc19n5t9d5ph9l...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Noon-Air" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Actually I did figure out what the problem was....and it wasn't the
>>>>>>>>compressor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well, what was the problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>upflow air handler with 3 ton evap coil on top, 20kw heat strips.......
>>>>>>Fan relay had been replaced and control mis-wired. Any time there was a
>>>>>>call for fan(heat, cool, fan only), the strips came on. With the evap
>>>>>>sitting on top of the strips, it caused extreme high temp on the ST.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've never seen a unit where the evaporator is over the heaters, I have
>>>>>only seen the heaters downstream from the evap.
>>>>>
>>>>>What Brand is this air handler?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rich
>>>>
>>>>This is Turtle.
>>>>
>>>>all Rheem made before 1990 was on top.
>>>>
>>>>TURTLE
>>>
>>>
>>>That would be ok since they had metal pans, but not for today's plastic
>>>condensate pans.
>>
>>Do you think a furnace runs any cooler? How many upflow furnaces have the
>>coil underneath?
>>
>>hvacrmedic
>
>
> My experience says a great deal cooler for sure. The radiant heat from the
> elements are a lot higher than the radiant heat from the exchanger. I've
> never seen a heat exchanger turn red unless the fan and limit were both bad.
> But I have seen a great deal of electric elements turn red to almost white
> just because of improper air patterns or dirt on the fan etc. This is an
> indication of a much hotter situation due to the heat spectrum alone.
>
> A few times I have seen flex duct connectors melt due to radiant heat from
> electric elements but never on an exchanger system.
That's because there typically is no flex at the furnace outlet, there
is an evaporator coil. As for the *red hot* remark: The temperature of
a hot surface does not equal the radiant temperature generated at some
point on another surface. Radiation energy falls of as the inverse cubed
of distance. The heat exchanger isn't as hot on the surface as the
heating element, but it has a greater surface area. Integrating over
that surface you'll find that the radiant temperature at some distant
point is generally greater than that due to the strip heaters. If the
limit fails on a furnace there will typically be more than a flex
scorched, there will no longer be a house, which is why the gas at the
street does not run into my house.
hvacrmedic
Stretch
Didn't you mean to say " the *start* winding?
Yes, it will fry quickly.
The Bristol two-speed will quickly burn up in low speed ;)
Copeland did the video with the
> tin can opened up. The magic smoke comes out real fast.
> Stretch
Yes, I said that wrong. I meant the start winding. When I saw the
video, they said they reversed the start & run connections. The smoke
started almost right away. Maybe they removed the overload. I don't
doubt what turtle said about trying to burn one up & failing. There
may be a lot of "It Depends" in this situation. I still don't plan on
trying that test myself, I got better ways to waste my money.
Stretch
Bob Loblaw
TURTLE wrote:
> If you go to any Marshal Art Games and you do not show respect
> for the other person your fighting. The will throw you out of the games and pull
> your belt registeration.
Nope. Belts aren't registered.
>So You don't have respect for others or even yourself
> and you would not have been able to be trained in the Marshal Arts in the USA.
Anyone with money can get training. Lot's of guys in the arts have
attitude. Respect is taught, but not all learn it.
> Well what i just told you was Gay Paul you ain't got a snow ball of a chance in
> hell of taking me in a open mate fight with sinsa setting in at all.
One of the first lessons taught in martial arts is to NEVER
under-estimate your opponent.
The winner of a fight depends mostly on who gets in the first strike.
An experienced street fighter will almost always prevail over a martial
arts student who has studied for 10 years, but never used his skills in
anger.
Know your environment.
Anyone who has studied martial arts knows this.
Also, most black belts don't brag about it.
Respectfully, Bob
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<inocent...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>TURTLE wrote:
>> If you go to any Marshal Art Games and you do not show respect
>> for the other person your fighting. The will throw you out of the games and pull
>> your belt registeration.
>
>Nope. Belts aren't registered.
'Zactly correct. More weasel bullshit. Speaking as someone
who HAS studied martial arts ( it's martial, weasel, not 'marshal',
you illiterate asshole ), it's obvious that weasel is just making shit
up, as always.
>>So You don't have respect for others or even yourself
>> and you would not have been able to be trained in the Marshal Arts in the USA.
Yeh, right. Go watch another 30 year old Bruce Lee movie,
that's all you know about it.
>> Well what i just told you was Gay Paul you ain't got a snow ball of a chance in
>> hell of taking me in a open mate fight with sinsa setting in at all.
'open mate' ??? What, you're going queer again ? 'sinsa'
???? WTF is a 'sinsa' ? Did you mean Sensei ? Sensei ( a word you
couldn't even define ) does not 'sit in' on matches, nor is he there
to stop weasels from getting your ass kicked again.