Recommendation on Trane A/C and Coil combination
000000001
>Trane dealers will flat out write on their bids "XL14, 14 SEER", which
>is wrong and unethical. And the original poster here is under the
>impression he will be getting a 15 Seer!
>
They also like to tell homeowners that the HSPF is 12 or 13 or 14 or
whatever......
Always carry an ARI book with you and let the customer see what the
SEER/HSPF is of the equipment you are proposing. Ask them if they have
received other bids and if they would like to look up that equipment. You
will be amazed how many competitors bids you get to see from doing this.
And it is fun to catch someone else in a lie.
000000001
>she was getting 11 SEER. This is why Rheem is removing SEER indicators
>from
>their outdoor units. Their 14 SEER, like most brands, requires VS blower
>too.
>
John, did you know that the 12, 13 and 14 SEER Rheem outdoor units are all
the same unit, just a different label?
You can buy a 12 SEER outdoor unit, and put in a RCHJ coil, RBHJ air
handler, and get 14 SEER/8.0 HSPF
Ray
air conditioning contractor to select a system for my home.
Here's what the contractor is proposing:
Requirement:
80000 BTU's of Heating Capacity
3.5 Tons of Cooling Capacity
1) Trane Model# TTY042A100A 15+ SEER A/C (XL 1400)
2) AllStyle Model# AS42-V-Q8 High Efficiency Coil
3) Trane Model# TUD080C948H Gas Furnace
4) Trane Model# TFE245A9FR0 Electronic Air Cleaner
5) ZTE Dual Zone Control
My questions are:
1) What does Trane recommend as the matching coil(s) for used with the
above A/C compressor unit and their respective SEER rating for the
combination? I was told by the sales rep that the AllStyle Coil would
give me the best SEER rating according to the ARI Guide.
2) I requested the above Trane Furnace in place of the standard York
Furnace. Does it contain a multi-speed motor? If, how much benefit
would I gain by upgrading to a multi-speed model considering I usually
leave the fan on all the time for the electronic air filter to operate?
Which model would you recommend?
Any other changes you would recommend to the above combination? Your
comment will be much appreciated. My builder would only work with this
specific contractor so it would be to my benefit the more precise
information I have.
Thank in advance,
Ray
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
turtle4air
This is turtle.
# 1 if i was buying a Trane system it will be all trane and not half
and half. if i wanted
half and half i would get me a Janitrol. get all one brand, for Trane
and others have had
a long time to figure out what the coil should be before most
contractors was born.
# 2 veriable speed --- no savings in electricity but does keep you
house at a more
even temperature. now if you going to run your fan all the time ,
don't worry about
verible speed , for running fan all the time will do the same thing.
# 3 If your going to buy a ford , don't add chevy motor and a dodge
bumper. get all
ford. in your case buy all 1 brand , Trane has a evaperator coil that
will do just fine in
there.
E-Mail me if you like to discuss it further.
TURTLE
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
Ray
Thanks for you quick response. Like you said I would really wanted a
one manufacturer and the contractor isn't very cooperative and switching
to another is not an option with the builder. Do you know the model
numbers for the matching coil(s) and the SEER rating matched with the
proposed Trane air conditioning unit? I can't seem to find them off
their web site or indeed anywhere after an extensive search.
As for the dual zone control unit, should I push for a Trane system too.
The more changes I pushed for the more my price will go up as I don't
have much negotiating power with a designated contractor.
Thanks again!
In article <R2qZ3.975$ZN2....@c01read04.service.talkway.com>,
Donnelly Refrig
>Requirement:
>80000 BTU's of Heating Capacity
>3.5 Tons of Cooling Capacity
>
>1) Trane Model# TTY042A100A 15+ SEER A/C (XL 1400)
>2) AllStyle Model# AS42-V-Q8 High Efficiency Coil
>3) Trane Model# TUD080C948H Gas Furnace
>4) Trane Model# TFE245A9FR0 Electronic Air Cleaner
>5) ZTE Dual Zone Control
I never knew there was such a company that specialized in higher efficiency
coils?
Me myself, I would just put the matching trane coil in.
Does this AllStyle really increase SEERS?
Bob D.
Owen
Allstyle doesn't go above 12 SEER capacity and they get that by giving you
the next size orifice.
Tell your contractor you would like a TXV on your coil and watch how fast he
comes up with the right match
Donnelly Refrig <nospa...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:abfcnzriefcnzarg...@news1.attglobal.net...
John Mills
>
> I am in the process of buying a new home and working with the builder's
> air conditioning contractor to select a system for my home.
>
> Here's what the contractor is proposing:
>
> 80000 BTU's of Heating Capacity
> 3.5 Tons of Cooling Capacity
>
> 1) Trane Model# TTY042A100A 15+ SEER A/C (XL 1400)
> 2) AllStyle Model# AS42-V-Q8 High Efficiency Coil
> 3) Trane Model# TUD080C948H Gas Furnace
> 4) Trane Model# TFE245A9FR0 Electronic Air Cleaner
> 5) ZTE Dual Zone Control
>
>
> 1) What does Trane recommend as the matching coil(s) for used with the
> above A/C compressor unit and their respective SEER rating for the
> combination? I was told by the sales rep that the AllStyle Coil would
> give me the best SEER rating according to the ARI Guide.
You could use TXC048C with a TXV and get 13.00 SEER. To get more than
that
with all Trane equipment you need a variable speed blower.
I looked in the latest ARI directory for the Allstyle coils with the
TTY042
and find nothing which makes me nervous. 3rd party coils do work but as
I
understand it, aren't actually tested with the rated outdoor unit. It is
a
computer simulation to estimate capacity & SEER.
> 2) I requested the above Trane Furnace in place of the standard York
> Furnace. Does it contain a multi-speed motor? If, how much benefit
> would I gain by upgrading to a multi-speed model considering I usually
> leave the fan on all the time for the electronic air filter to operate?
> Which model would you recommend?
The XE80 has a 4 speed blower. You can go to the XV80 and get a 2 stage
gas valve with ECM motor which adds to the SEER level of the outdoor
unit
by a couple of points. It runs on super low (around 80 watts) for
continuous
fan.
Another thought if your builder likes York. Their new 2 stage outdoor
unit
can get up to 16 SEER with the variable speed Diamond 80 furnace. May
not
be more than the XL1400 A/C.
--
HVAC Advice, Pictures, Links
http://www.geocities.com/~johnmills
http://www.appelheat.com
AIM: BaldLoonie
ICQ: 18370036
turtle4air
> Hi Turtle,
>
> Thanks for you quick response. Like you said I would really wanted a
> one manufacturer and the contractor isn't very cooperative and switching
> to another is not an option with the builder. Do you know the model
> numbers for the matching coil(s) and the SEER rating matched with the
> proposed Trane air conditioning unit? I can't seem to find them off
> their web site or indeed anywhere after an extensive search.
>
> As for the dual zone control unit, should I push for a Trane system too.
> The more changes I pushed for the more my price will go up as I don't
> have much negotiating power with a designated contractor.
>
> Thanks again!
>
this is turtle.
Let me tell you about the contracting business . General contractors
get their
man to do all their work and by this they get a piece of the action.
when you
want to get a different brand than their man sells. you get what your
getting.
The General contractor doesn't have a Trane man to do his work. He must
have
a York Man doing all his work.
This is what i would do. i would get a set of my plans and find a
reliable trane
dealer and show him the plans and say i really would like it to be all
trane
equipment and at least 13 seer rating and not little of this brand and
the other. Flate
all Trane. then tell the contractor to get all trane equipment with
atleast 13 seer rating
and how much. you can add the veriable speed blowers but i really
don't concider
them nessary if you have to watch your dollars.
You might get a surpise in what the prices turns out. a Independent
HVAC contractor
can do just as good of a job as the General Contractor's brother in
law. compare the
prices and go from there.
One thing i world like to say if you have a general contractor that
can't not give you what
you want with out a bunch of bull. You don't need him. Get a
contractor that is interested in
your needs and not want he wants to do. you can tell the general
contractor so in so Trane
dealer will be doing the air. he will be getting with you as the job
progresses. i am a independent
hvac contractor and do this all the time.
above there you had said that maybe trane don't make a coil to match a
trane furnace and
condenser. Trane has a coil for every piece of equipment that trane
makes.
If you would like to discuss it E-Mail me and discuss it in detail.
Brian S-
>You could use TXC048C with a TXV and get 13.00 SEER. To get more than
>that
>with all Trane equipment you need a variable speed blower.
Trane is good at this efficiency deception stuff. I, too, am looking
in my ARI manual under the "XL14", 3.5 TON, and see alot of 11's,
12's, and low 13's, but no 14's.
Trane dealers will flat out write on their bids "XL14, 14 SEER", which
is wrong and unethical. And the original poster here is under the
impression he will be getting a 15 Seer!
I'm surprised some watchdog group hasn't caught on to that yet. I
will always quote the specific SEER. And if I'm putting in the
condenser only, I will never call it a 10 SEER, because with the
existing coil I don't know what it will be.
As John noted, you have to have a variable speed AIR HANDLER to get
14!
Brian
Brian S-
># 1 if i was buying a Trane system it will be all trane and not half
>and half. if i wanted
>half and half i would get me a Janitrol. get all one brand, for Trane
>and others have had
>a long time to figure out what the coil should be before most
>contractors was born.
Hi Terry,
If the manufacturer shows it in their match-ups, then it wouldn't
bother me.
For example, I can use a Lennox horizontal slab coil, or an Aspen
horizontal A-coil, and get 14 SEER (a _TRUE_ 14 seer I might add!).
If replacing the furnace too, I would prefer the a-coil in my own
house.
I doubt all manufacturers even make their own coils.
Brian
John Mills
> Trane is good at this efficiency deception stuff. I, too, am looking
> in my ARI manual under the "XL14", 3.5 TON, and see alot of 11's,
> 12's, and low 13's, but no 14's.
>
> Trane dealers will flat out write on their bids "XL14, 14 SEER", which
> is wrong and unethical. And the original poster here is under the
> impression he will be getting a 15 Seer!
>
> I'm surprised some watchdog group hasn't caught on to that yet. I
> will always quote the specific SEER. And if I'm putting in the
> condenser only, I will never call it a 10 SEER, because with the
> existing coil I don't know what it will be.
Trane is the worst but I don't like the renaming of the HS29 as the
Elite 11. I wonder how often it is quoted with the expensive coil it
takes to provide 11 SEER!!! The one time I particularly bid against it,
I had her call to ask what coil. Standard C23 and they led her to
believe
she was getting 11 SEER. This is why Rheem is removing SEER indicators
from
their outdoor units. Their 14 SEER, like most brands, requires VS blower
too.
--
Ray
tell on the web site, XL14 gives up to 15.90 SEER, and XL12 gives up to
14.00 SEER. Does it make a difference in the configuration I'm
considering?
Thanks in advance.
In article <38398c27...@news.mindspring.com>,
Brian@*REMOVETHIS*SpencerAir.com wrote:
> John Mills <jmm...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >You could use TXC048C with a TXV and get 13.00 SEER. To get more than
> >that
> >with all Trane equipment you need a variable speed blower.
>
> Trane is good at this efficiency deception stuff. I, too, am looking
> in my ARI manual under the "XL14", 3.5 TON, and see alot of 11's,
> 12's, and low 13's, but no 14's.
>
> Trane dealers will flat out write on their bids "XL14, 14 SEER", which
> is wrong and unethical. And the original poster here is under the
> impression he will be getting a 15 Seer!
>
> I'm surprised some watchdog group hasn't caught on to that yet. I
> will always quote the specific SEER. And if I'm putting in the
> condenser only, I will never call it a 10 SEER, because with the
> existing coil I don't know what it will be.
>
> As John noted, you have to have a variable speed AIR HANDLER to get
> 14!
>
> Brian
>
Brian S-
> As far as I can
>tell on the web site, XL14 gives up to 15.90 SEER, and XL12 gives up to
>14.00 SEER. Does it make a difference in the configuration I'm
>considering?
Hi Ray,
The outdoor unit (the condenser) is only part of the a/c system. The
other major component is the indoor cooling coil (the evaporator).
The outdoor unit by itself has no efficiency. Just like a car engine
by itself has no efficiency. But take that engine and match it with
body A, and it may get 40 mpg. Match it with body B, and get 50 mpg.
With body C, it'll get 60 mpg. The engine manufacturer may market
that engine as a "60 MPG ENGINE", even though you may not get 60 mpg
with your particular car body. Same with your home a/c. The indoor
cooling coil is the body. Different indoor cooling coils will give
you different efficiency ratings (SEER).
A manufacturer may get 14 SEER with some odd ball variable speed
indoor high eff air handler evaporator at some particular tonnage.
Now, the entire line is called a 14 seer, even though _your_ match up
may get only 11.4 seer. You (the homeowner) are to believe your new
unit will be 14 SEER. The manufacturer never really came out and said
it was 14, but since 14 is in the name it implies it.
>So what the difference between a Trane XL14 and XL12?
The XL14 is larger physically.
Brian
John Mills
> John, did you know that the 12, 13 and 14 SEER Rheem outdoor units are all
> the same unit, just a different label?
I knew the 12 & 13 were the same, didn't analyze the 14. Seems stupid.
No
wonder they don't have them in stock. I just wrote a strongly worded
letter
to Mr. Big at Rheem complaining that I had to wait a month for them to
make
a WPMC-042.
Ray
digging around I've been able to locate the ARI directory online and
did some research from there.
Let many of you pointed out the high SEER numbers applied to a specific
configuration in the series. With my configuration, the highest SEER
number matched by a Trane coil is the following:
TXH063P3 13.5 SEER
with the Allstyle coil or a Superior coil, it will go slightly higher to
14.0 SEER, in all cases without a variable speed blower.
I've decided to go with the Trane coil since .5 SEER is probably a good
trade off for original brand.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you!
Ray
Liberty
If your building a "new" home, then why the 80% ? Your so concerned with
the efficiency of the A/C but not the heat portion, maybe you live in the
southern part of the country? An 80% seems futile. I would consider nothing
less than a 90%, and with constant air flow go with a variable, BUT GET
THE EXTENDED WARRANTY of ten years! I don't know why Turtle says the
variable speed blower doesn't save money, maybe he has some information
that I'm not aware of.
I personally would forget the gas/electric stuff and go with a Geothermal.
You will see the pay back in about 5 years, have less maintenance, enjoy
your home more, especially if you use wet spray insulation, and have a
safer system.
I will never go with gas again now that Geo.'s have been so improved.
Rich
Murdentech
with just the right indoor coil. The indoor coil is 27 inches tall!!! .. But
it rate a full 14 with a standard blower.
Lots of coil combinations will give same condenser ranges from 12.5 to 13.75
also. Usually we wind up with a five ton TXV coil for a 3.5 or 4 ton
condenser to get 14 SEER.
It's a scroll too, you can't even hear the unit running from 20 feet away.
--
Jeff Murden
www.murdentech.com
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Brian S- <Br...@SpencerAir.com> wrote in message
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Murdentech
concur) is there is no payback in relation to the extra cost of the
equipment and labor to properly set the system up. The same is true for some
12 SEER equipment. I did a comparison on a Bryant. For the extra cost it
would take literally 20 years to save enough electricity to pay the extra
cost.!!!
The same may be true for this guy using an 80% furnace. Sure we'd all love
to have the 90%, but it isn't always feasible. There's too many variables in
each situation to make a blanket statment like you have. Maybe he has a very
small lot, how's he gonna do geothermal with no yard. Maybe it's a condo or
townhouse.
--
Jeff Murden
www.murdentech.com
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