Re: AirTime 500
Bill
wrote:
> Anyone ever heard of, or belong to, AirTime 500? The comapny I work
> for belongs to them. We watched some training tapes the other day and
> all I could think about the speaker was "did this guy drink the
> koolaid or what?"
They've been around for years. Same old slobber. The new band wagon to
jump on you can glean from Contracting Business. Which is looking to
become Matt Michel's personal newsletter.
--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
Bob Pietrangelo
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bo...@comcast.net
b...@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message
news:UxGPe.57199$gB.4...@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> In article <7p2tg11v1iatn4sgi...@4ax.com>, Al Moran
> wrote:
>
> > Anyone ever heard of, or belong to, AirTime 500? The comapny I work
> > for belongs to them. We watched some training tapes the other day and
> > all I could think about the speaker was "did this guy drink the
> > koolaid or what?"
>
> They've been around for years. Same old slobber. The new band wagon to
> jump on you can glean from Contracting Business. Which is looking to
> become Matt Michel's personal newsletter.
Airtime 500 has nothing to do with Matt Michel. Matt started Airserve many
moons ago and has had nothing to do with it for years. Matt is one of the
best consultants and marketers in our industry. He now has started the
Service Round Table. It is a consortium of HVAC contractors that share
marketing, business, technical, and regulation issues in a non-combative
atmosphere.
Bill, if you learned a little more from him you might not be the miserable
fuck that you are today!!!!!
Airtime 500 is just about to be over. Their new flagship product is One
Hour. Again, Matt is not involved.
Jabs
A few years ago, I attended one of their seminars in Las Vegas and another
one here in Los Angeles..... and from what I saw, I'm convinced that they're
helping *all* HVAC technicians move up to a double-wide trailer. I believe
their contractors are the best type of HVAC contractors to compete with. I
hope and pray to see & compete with more AirTime 500 contractors.
I thank God for Jim Abrams!
http://www.airtime500.com/jim_about.aspx
Jabs
<Al Moran> wrote in message
news:7p2tg11v1iatn4sgi...@4ax.com...
Bill
"Bob Pietrangelo" <bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Bill, you miserable fuck, see reply at end
Damn Bobby.
Touching the holy grail of flat rate pricing makes you angrier than
weasel talking about you fucking your mother?
> > > Anyone ever heard of, or belong to, AirTime 500? The comapny I work
> > > for belongs to them. We watched some training tapes the other day and
> > > all I could think about the speaker was "did this guy drink the
> > > koolaid or what?"
> >
> > They've been around for years. Same old slobber. The new band wagon to
> > jump on you can glean from Contracting Business. Which is looking to
> > become Matt Michel's personal newsletter.
>
> Airtime 500 has nothing to do with Matt Michel.
Assumption is a mutherfucker eh Bobby?
Matt started Airserve many
> moons ago and has had nothing to do with it for years. Matt is one of the
> best consultants and marketers in our industry.
(Thats the long winded bullshit words used for salesman)
He now has started the
> Service Round Table. It is a consortium of HVAC contractors that share
> marketing, business, technical, and regulation issues in a non-combative
> atmosphere.
(That last part refers to the mutual ass kissing party)
> Bill, if you learned a little more from him you might not be the miserable
> fuck that you are today!!!!!
You mean like you? Following every word a kool-aid dispenser makes
because you couldn't run your own company in the first place?
> Airtime 500 is just about to be over. Their new flagship product is One
> Hour. Again, Matt is not involved.
Oh well thank g** scratch that. Thank Matt.
Bobby. You need to take some serious medicine. Don't tell me that by
using flat rate you're cannibalized your customer base and are now
feeling the pain.
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Speaking good about Bob like this will not make him love you and Paul.
TURTLE
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> Speaking good about Bob like this will not make him love you and Paul.
>
> TURTLE
Why don't you crawl back under your rock weasel.
Jake
I read this reply and have to ask AGAIN: Who are you?
Bob has been pretty straight-forward about his operation and what he
does, and how he's managing his business... as most of the posters here
have... I have .... except you.
I don't care about web-sites, or state links, or your glamorous Google.
Who are you?
I just wanna know who the heck you really are: Not personally... but
what kind of HVAC (or other trades business) do you own, or are involved in.
You exhibit absolutely no understanding of business practices, that I've
noticed, and then you bash Bob when he calls your post Horseshit...
which is what it is, IMO.
I don't know Matt... and I don't know the history. I was invited over at
SRT and I lurked for a while. I couldn't justify the cost based on my
current business focus, but I'd guess MOST, if not ALL, HVAC contractors
would benefit from the content and be glad to participate (and pay).
What do uniforms cost you? What's your W/C experience rating? How are
you dealing with higher fuel costs? What are the tax implications of
employee take-home vehicles? What's the best employee tool-purchase
program? I saw all that discussed at SRT... far from a 'mutual
ass-kissing party'.
Flat-rates are the way of the future.. even in my business. T & M
costing models are as out-dated as some of the stuff you post.
I really, really don't believe you're running a business... and if you
are, good luck.
Jake
TURTLE
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:09:48 -0500, "TURTLE"
> <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> YoU need to SHUT THE FUCK UP! NO ONE CARES!
This is Turtle.
Welcome to the Flame War, Al . there is now you and 3 other wanting to keep the
flame a burning.
Hope your up to speed on flaming but you can follow post with Bill till you get
the hang of it of flaming.
Hummmmm Bill and Al now two love birds protecting the big sucker Paul. Al do you
go over for the partys at Paul with Bill and Steve Sea Breezer?
TURTLE
TURTLE
> In article <qOQPe.6960$N1....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> This is Turtle.
>>
>> Speaking good about Bob like this will not make him love you and Paul.
>>
>> TURTLE
>
> Why don't you crawl back under your rock weasel.
>
This is Turtle.
how did you get Al to start trolling with you and awwww , well never mine.
TURTLE
Bill
Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> Bill...
>
> I read this reply and have to ask AGAIN: Who are you?
I do primarily commercial refrigeration. Some HVAC.
> noticed, and then you bash Bob
You call that bashing? Nothing struck you about his post out of the gate?
> when he calls your post Horseshit...
> which is what it is, IMO.
Well then that makes you as soft in the head as Bobby doesn't it Jake.
So any opinion not conforming to your views is horseshit. lol
http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/2002/flatrate_revised1.asp
> I don't know Matt... and I don't know the history. I was invited over at
> SRT and I lurked for a while. I couldn't justify the cost based on my
> current business focus, but I'd guess MOST, if not ALL, HVAC contractors
> would benefit from the content and be glad to participate (and pay).
OH? So just whats there that doesn't apply to your business?
What is offered there is mostly sales. What is discussed is mostly HVAC
but the business issues should apply to you. So you want to harangue my
ass while you take a pass?
> Flat-rates are the way of the future.. even in my business. T & M
> costing models are as out-dated as some of the stuff you post.
Bullshit. Try telling a Wal-mart shopper that the bill for ten items is
$236. That they don't price what individual items or services are.
You know or should know commercial customers will show your ass the door.
Jake familiar with Maio? Doc Rusk? Charlie Greer? Diamond?, etc?
You had better be.
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> Welcome to the Flame War, Al . there is now you and 3 other wanting to keep
Just ignore weasel. The old hack used to be somebody's prison bitch and
he's been flashing back lately.
TURTLE
> In article <uCRPe.7526$N1....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> This is Turtle.
>>
>> Welcome to the Flame War, Al . there is now you and 3 other wanting to keep
> snipped weasel's fag rant
>
> Just ignore weasel. The old hack used to be somebody's prison bitch and
> he's been flashing back lately.
>
This is Turtle
Yes Al , Billy is a good person to follow behind with his high respectiability
he has.
TURTLE
TURTLE
this is Turtle.
Billy Bob , Jake has forgot more about pricing than you Know.
Also Jake has a Wife and Kids and don't need a Billy Bob lover in the family !
TURTLE
Noon-Air
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:RhSPe.7943$N1....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Had it not been for Turtle not snipping Bill's ignorance, I would have never
seen it, but be that as it may, I usedto think like Bill does as far as
pricing, but one day I woke up to the real world.
IMHO, flat rate is the way to go. Before I switched to flat rate, I was
leaving too much money on the table by not charging enough. My gross reciept
amounts have almost trippled, and I am working smarter, not harder.
BTW....Bill, don't bother replying, your still in the killfile.
Bill
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > TURTLE
>
> Had it not been for Turtle not snipping Bill's ignorance, I would have never
> seen it, but be that as it may, I usedto think like Bill does as far as
> pricing, but one day I woke up to the real world.
> IMHO, flat rate is the way to go. Before I switched to flat rate, I was
> leaving too much money on the table by not charging enough. My gross reciept
> amounts have almost trippled, and I am working smarter, not harder.
> BTW....Bill, don't bother replying, your still in the killfile.
That's ok, your fag buddy weasel can send it to you.
You have no idea what I think about pricing.
So IYHO you're comparing flat rate against undercharging?
Jabs is right that most hvac techs don't know shit about running a
company.
But listening to some of the salesmen and their snake oil in a vacuum
isn't a substitute for sound business practices.
So which guru are you slavishly devoted to Steve? Or are you just using
the poor man's flat rate? Or do you even know?
Jake
>>Bill...
>>
>>I read this reply and have to ask AGAIN: Who are you?
>
> I do primarily commercial refrigeration. Some HVAC.
Thank you... that's somewhat helpful. Are you a owner? How large a
business? What pricing method do you primarily use?
>>noticed, and then you bash Bob
>
> You call that bashing? Nothing struck you about his post out of the gate?
OK, I admit that I hadn't noticed Bob going off like he did at the top
of his post. It seems you struck a nerve there...
>>when he calls your post Horseshit...
>>which is what it is, IMO.
>
> Well then that makes you as soft in the head as Bobby doesn't it Jake.
>
> So any opinion not conforming to your views is horseshit. lol
>
> http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/2002/flatrate_revised1.asp
I admit this is 'hot button' issue with contractors of all types... but
really... a quote from a Plumbing publication dated 2002 doesn't impress
me that much. Did you know the author, Mr. Secor, is a old-line type
that is probably retired by now.
Also, look at the response to THAT article:
http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/2002/whyuseflatrate.asp
Mr. Leichter is a younger fellow who appears to be a go-getter more open
to newer ideas, IMHO. Yep, he's a 'consultant', and although I myself
hold some disdain for these types myself... it's not a crime to admit
some folks come up with better ideas than I do.
I saw the side-by-side argument in Contracting Business where Stretch
argued for T & M... both the arguments are compelling and both have
their pro-and-cons... which depend heavily on your particular business
and clientele.
>>I don't know Matt... and I don't know the history. I was invited
over at
>>SRT and I lurked for a while. I couldn't justify the cost based on my
>>current business focus, but I'd guess MOST, if not ALL, HVAC contractors
>>would benefit from the content and be glad to participate (and pay).
>
>
> OH? So just whats there that doesn't apply to your business?
> What is offered there is mostly sales. What is discussed is mostly HVAC
> but the business issues should apply to you. So you want to harangue my
> ass while you take a pass?
I took a pass because I'm not in the HVAC business, and SOME of the
marketing... and many of the technical issues... do not apply. A person
only has so much time to participate in these types of communities, so
you'd better get the best focus possible.
My point was that SRT does not appear to be the 'mutual ass-kissing
party' you called it. And that it would appear to be a good investment
for HVAC folks... who can get business-related info and technical info
in one spot.
>
>>Flat-rates are the way of the future.. even in my business. T & M
>>costing models are as out-dated as some of the stuff you post.
>
>
> Bullshit. Try telling a Wal-mart shopper that the bill for ten items is
> $236. That they don't price what individual items or services are.
> You know or should know commercial customers will show your ass the door.
Quite a few of my commercial customers LOVE flat-rates. It's about
budgeting in their case. Many kinds of industrial work are 'elective'..
in that the customer can decide to do something now... or 3 months from
now.. or 3 years from now. They like to know what things will cost them
in advance.
Flat rates also open the door to maintenance agreements which are a
win-win for all concerned... and can lead to all kinds of flat-rate
'on-the-spot' fixes which are also beneficial to all concerned.
Your Wal-Mart analogy is flawed. People go to Wal-Mart to buy what are
commonly referred to as 'commodity' goods, whether that be toilet paper
or tires for the Pinto. Pricing on these items is well known.. can be
easily shopped around and compared... and therefore the ability to
compare is necessary.
Not the same with service work.. not at all. People calling for service
have NO IDEA what the fix will cost them... and they wanna know. It
comforts them to know.
I don't use a 'canned' package to generate flat-rates, and I update
twice or more a year. My method is very similar to how Kevin uses
spreadsheets in computing the costs. It works as long as you have a good
handle on things. It doesn't work well if you don't... just like in
computing your hourly charges.
Like hourly rate schemes, some flat-rate proponents use 'comparison
costing' (comparing your rates to competitors) as a method. I don't
believe in that, and never will. Rates always have to be fair and
honest.. and if your cost structure is higher than a competitors...
well, maybe you aren't the guy to do the job, anyhow.
If you're lower.. there may be all kinds of reasons for that... like
maybe you run a more efficient company, or you're not really very well
equipped to do the work.
In any case... in every case... it's the customer who ultimately decides
whether to proceed. Sure, some are more comfortable with T & M, and some
are more comfortable with flats. In the end, you have to make the choice
WHICH customers you want to deal with... and remember that flats will
not apply to ALL situations...
Jake
Bill
Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> OK, I admit that I hadn't noticed Bob going off like he did at the top
> of his post. It seems you struck a nerve there...
What? No apology from you for your over-reaction? Bob has a shit fit and
weasel posts hack shit and you want answers? It's gotten old Jake.
> I admit this is 'hot button' issue with contractors of all types... but
> really... a quote from a Plumbing publication dated 2002 doesn't impress
> me that much. Did you know the author, Mr. Secor, is a old-line type
> that is probably retired by now
> Also, look at the response to THAT article:
>
> http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/2002/whyuseflatrate.asp
The reply was didn't cover the merits as much as nit picking Secor's
article like parsing the word rape out of the gate. Impugning Secor was
a theme in the article.
> Mr. Leichter is a younger fellow who appears to be a go-getter more open
> to newer ideas, IMHO. Yep, he's a 'consultant', and although I myself
> hold some disdain for these types myself... it's not a crime to admit
> some folks come up with better ideas than I do.
The ones making the money appears to be the consultants and a select few
others. Anyone can take a non-costed company and look like a miracle
worker.
> I saw the side-by-side argument in Contracting Business where Stretch
> argued for T & M... both the arguments are compelling and both have
> their pro-and-cons... which depend heavily on your particular business
> and clientele.
But according to you only assholes use TM in your last post.
> > OH? So just whats there that doesn't apply to your business?
> > What is offered there is mostly sales. What is discussed is mostly HVAC
> > but the business issues should apply to you. So you want to harangue my
> > ass while you take a pass?
>
> I took a pass because I'm not in the HVAC business, and SOME of the
> marketing... and many of the technical issues... do not apply. A person
> only has so much time to participate in these types of communities, so
> you'd better get the best focus possible.
That's right so your opinion is just that.
> My point was that SRT does not appear to be the 'mutual ass-kissing
> party' you called it. And that it would appear to be a good investment
> for HVAC folks... who can get business-related info and technical info
> in one spot.
Bob had a fucking fit. I knifed him for his 'non-combative" bullshit.
Re-read what he wrote. The man had a fucking cow.
> >
> >>Flat-rates are the way of the future.. even in my business. T & M
> >>costing models are as out-dated as some of the stuff you post.
> > Bullshit. Try telling a Wal-mart shopper that the bill for ten items is
> > $236. That they don't price what individual items or services are.
> > You know or should know commercial customers will show your ass the door.
> Quite a few of my commercial customers LOVE flat-rates. It's about
> budgeting in their case. Many kinds of industrial work are 'elective'..
> in that the customer can decide to do something now... or 3 months from
> now.. or 3 years from now. They like to know what things will cost them
> in advance.
With metal prices and what-not a three year price last year would
bankrupt your ass.
Nit pick all you want. It isn't all one way or the other. We all know
that. Excuse me. Hello Bob? *waves*
> Flat rates also open the door to maintenance agreements which are a
> win-win for all concerned... and can lead to all kinds of flat-rate
> 'on-the-spot' fixes which are also beneficial to all concerned.
So you're seen Greer's presentation eh? Has anyone else seen it?
> Your Wal-Mart analogy is flawed. People go to Wal-Mart to buy what are
> commonly referred to as 'commodity' goods, whether that be toilet paper
> or tires for the Pinto. Pricing on these items is well known.. can be
> easily shopped around and compared... and therefore the ability to
> compare is necessary.
Lot's of places to shop equipment and parts. Ebay especially.
Flat rate has it's points but it can also be a packages fucking.
Loews and HD has effectively eaten the electricians lunch.
So the electrical wholesalers are feeling it. You'll be buying in bulk
from HD if you aren't already. The kid in isle 14 will be glad to help
you with any technical issues.
Our trade could suffer that fate if the dumb-asses don't wise up.
But then you have all the big boys trying to make it illegal for a HO to
DIY at all.
> Not the same with service work.. not at all. People calling for service
> have NO IDEA what the fix will cost them... and they wanna know. It
> comforts them to know.
> I don't use a 'canned' package to generate flat-rates, and I update
> twice or more a year. My method is very similar to how Kevin uses
> spreadsheets in computing the costs. It works as long as you have a good
> handle on things. It doesn't work well if you don't... just like in
> computing your hourly charges.
That's one of the problems. The "salesmen" are selling "flat rate" and
what the guy actually needed was some business training. They are making
it off the little guy at $2500 chunks for something that can potentially
eviscerate his business. He doesn't know enough to evaluate the
difference. By just looking at the numbers and raising his rates he
would have made more money. Ron Collier shows that with his ABCD
contractors real well. Anyone here seen that?
> Like hourly rate schemes,
An hourly rate is a scheme? Yes it could be a innocent choice for a word
but then you followed it with:
some flat-rate proponents use 'comparison
> costing' (comparing your rates to competitors) as a method.
Cute. I agree. That isn't costing that's abdication. Pack mentality.
Leaders lead. Big dog gets the first bite.
I don't
> believe in that, and never will. Rates always have to be fair and
> honest.. and if your cost structure is higher than a competitors...
> well, maybe you aren't the guy to do the job, anyhow.
> If you're lower.. there may be all kinds of reasons for that... like
> maybe you run a more efficient company, or you're not really very well
> equipped to do the work.
>
> In any case... in every case... it's the customer who ultimately decides
> whether to proceed. Sure, some are more comfortable with T & M, and some
> are more comfortable with flats. In the end, you have to make the choice
> WHICH customers you want to deal with... and remember that flats will
> not apply to ALL situations...
>
> Jake
Well Jake the Boys posting primarily do residential. How about you quiz
Bob on his particulars?
Some Tech's are being screwed over working for a lot of flat rate
companies and some customers are being hosed. You won't see those
articles written.
The rosy one sided picture is what's plastered everywhere and any
dissent is squashed. Why is that?
Whose seminars have you been to?
Think you would be allowed in Airtime 500? Think that 500 means anything?
steeda
What a load of BS. Bill doesn't seem to know much about the HVAC trade...
Bill
wrote:
> What a load of BS. Bill doesn't seem to know much about the HVAC trade...
I heard that one before. Try something new.
Something funny would be nice.
TURTLE
"steeda" <te...@no.com> wrote in message news:Ds3Qe.1588$mH.1517@fed1read07...
This is Turtle.
He claims to be a walk-in cooler jockey which has very little to do with the
HVAC trade.
TURTLE
Bill Surber
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> He claims to be a walk-in cooler jockey which has very little to do with the
> HVAC trade.
>
> TURTLE
Whassamatter weasel? Can't find where you left your rock to crawl under
it?
Got tired of calling me a plumber? :-(
Don't worry. I'm not tired of rubbing your nose in your hack shit.
Bill
>
> He claims to be a walk-in cooler jockey which has very little to do with the
> HVAC trade.
>
> TURTLE
Whassamatter weasel? Can't find where you left your rock to crawl under
it?
Got tired of calling me a plumber? :-(
Don't worry. I'm not tired of rubbing your nose in your hack shit.
--
Jake
> In article <bA1Qe.70289$084.27016@attbi_s22>,
> Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>
>>OK, I admit that I hadn't noticed Bob going off like he did at the top
>>of his post. It seems you struck a nerve there...
>
> What? No apology from you for your over-reaction? Bob has a shit fit and
> weasel posts hack shit and you want answers? It's gotten old Jake.
Apologize for what... for Bob? I agree that the beginning of his reply
was inflammatory... but then again, so was the totally wrong information
you posted.
I'll not apologize for my comments, as I believe them to be accurate.
Prove me otherwise and I'll gladly acknowledge that here.
> The reply was didn't cover the merits as much as nit picking Secor's
> article like parsing the word rape out of the gate. Impugning Secor was
> a theme in the article.
Baloney... did you even get past page 1? The whole rest of the
article... by my measure more than half... never even mentions Mr. Secor.
>>I saw the side-by-side argument in Contracting Business where Stretch
>>argued for T & M... both the arguments are compelling and both have
>>their pro-and-cons... which depend heavily on your particular business
>>and clientele.
>
> But according to you only assholes use TM in your last post.
I said, in this context, that you exhibit no apparent understanding of
current business practices, and that T & M costing models are outdated.
I don't recall ever referring to anyone as a 'asshole'... yet.
> That's right so your opinion is just that.
That's right.. I've got plenty of opinions.. some of them people agree
with and others do not. But here's the deal: I run a successful
contracting company. I have 34 employees at present, and 23 of them are
either Master or Journeymen. Our company owns over 5 million dollars
worth of equipment, and we have another 1.2 in inventory. Our five
buildings sit on 13 acres. Our property tax bill alone is over $50k a
year. My gross payroll runs a little less than that every week. We are
not some huge company, but we do a pretty good job and I'm proud of what
we accomplish.
I have a right to my opinions on this matter.
Do you?
> Bob had a fucking fit. I knifed him for his 'non-combative" bullshit.
> Re-read what he wrote. The man had a fucking cow.
He did have a cow... but you posted incorrect information apparently
smearing someone he respects.
>>Quite a few of my commercial customers LOVE flat-rates. It's about
>>budgeting in their case. Many kinds of industrial work are 'elective'..
>>in that the customer can decide to do something now... or 3 months from
>>now.. or 3 years from now. They like to know what things will cost them
>>in advance.
>
>
> With metal prices and what-not a three year price last year would
> bankrupt your ass.
Flat rates put them in the ballpark. You really don't have a clue, do
you? NOBODY gives a three year quote. That was not the point. I told
you my flat rates are revised at least semi-annually, or when ever the
need arises.
>
> Nit pick all you want. It isn't all one way or the other. We all know
> that. Excuse me. Hello Bob? *waves*
I said that at the bottom of the previous post you replied to...
>>Flat rates also open the door to maintenance agreements which are a
>>win-win for all concerned... and can lead to all kinds of flat-rate
>>'on-the-spot' fixes which are also beneficial to all concerned.
>
>
> So you're seen Greer's presentation eh? Has anyone else seen it?
No, I didn't see it. It just makes sense.
>>Your Wal-Mart analogy is flawed. People go to Wal-Mart to buy what are
>>commonly referred to as 'commodity' goods, whether that be toilet paper
>>or tires for the Pinto. Pricing on these items is well known.. can be
>>easily shopped around and compared... and therefore the ability to
>>compare is necessary.
>
> Lot's of places to shop equipment and parts. Ebay especially.
> Flat rate has it's points but it can also be a packages fucking.
> Loews and HD has effectively eaten the electricians lunch.
> So the electrical wholesalers are feeling it. You'll be buying in bulk
> from HD if you aren't already. The kid in isle 14 will be glad to help
> you with any technical issues.
> Our trade could suffer that fate if the dumb-asses don't wise up.
Look at what's at Home Depot... they're not in my business (yet). They
don't carry 600 V fuses, and their fittings are crap (although initially
they carried pretty good stuff), they have poor prices on wire compared
to my electrical house... and they don't have motor starters, relays or
PLC's. I go there occasionally when I need something in a hurry, but I'm
always disappointed. Hell, Fastenal has better prices on nuts and bolts
than HD has....
>>I don't use a 'canned' package to generate flat-rates, and I update
>>twice or more a year. My method is very similar to how Kevin uses
>>spreadsheets in computing the costs. It works as long as you have a good
>>handle on things. It doesn't work well if you don't... just like in
>>computing your hourly charges.
>
> That's one of the problems. The "salesmen" are selling "flat rate" and
> what the guy actually needed was some business training. They are making
> it off the little guy at $2500 chunks for something that can potentially
> eviscerate his business. He doesn't know enough to evaluate the
> difference. By just looking at the numbers and raising his rates he
> would have made more money. Ron Collier shows that with his ABCD
> contractors real well. Anyone here seen that?
Who here has salesmen? I'm curious... I don't. I'm the salesman, and one
of our real electricians writes quotes when I can't. Yeah, I've been
hammered about having a professional sales guy, but I just don't see it.
I've also been hammered about 'wasting' a Master electrician's time
putting quotes together... but I really believe it saves money in the
long run by eliminating mistakes.
>>Like hourly rate schemes,
>
> An hourly rate is a scheme? Yes it could be a innocent choice for a word
> but then you followed it with:
>
> some flat-rate proponents use 'comparison
>
>>costing' (comparing your rates to competitors) as a method.
>
> Cute. I agree. That isn't costing that's abdication. Pack mentality.
> Leaders lead. Big dog gets the first bite.
They're all schemes. Take no offense to the choice of vocabulary... it
is not derogatory.
> Well Jake the Boys posting primarily do residential. How about you quiz
> Bob on his particulars?
When he posts some apparent horseshit that appears to be out of his
realm of understanding... I will.
> Some Tech's are being screwed over working for a lot of flat rate
> companies and some customers are being hosed. You won't see those
> articles written.
Why not? I'd like to hear from a tech here, or even a customer with
those experiences.
> The rosy one sided picture is what's plastered everywhere and any
> dissent is squashed. Why is that?
Tell me why... I dunno? Are you suggesting a giant conspiracy or what?
> Whose seminars have you been to?
I don't go to marketing type seminars. I do talk with a lot of other
contractors at meetings of the various organizations we participate in,
like the Electric Reliability Council, the NFPA, the Rockwell Automation
groups, the Indiana Chamber... on-and-on.
> Think you would be allowed in Airtime 500? Think that 500 means anything?
I know what it means. And no, I probably wouldn't be allowed 'in'. Our
marketing is not that aggressive, our growth has been slow-but-sure, and
I really have no interest in it, anyhow.
Jake
Bill
Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> marketing is not that aggressive, our growth has been slow-but-sure, and
> I really have no interest in it, anyhow.
Then why did you post?
Jake
> In article <CcaQe.71685$084.58482@attbi_s22>,
> Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>
>>marketing is not that aggressive, our growth has been slow-but-sure, and
>>I really have no interest in it, anyhow.
>
>
> Then why did you post?
>
Because you posted horseshit, my friend... the same thing you harp on
Turtle about... and Bob challenged you (somewhat un-civilized)... and
you came back with more horseshit.
Got any more issues you want to avoid discussing?
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
I have this ingrown hair on my ass I'd rather not talk about,
if that helps any .....
>
>Jake
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Jake
>>
>>Got any more issues you want to avoid discussing?
>
>
> I have this ingrown hair on my ass I'd rather not talk about,
> if that helps any .....
>
Hmmm.. sounds like you have a 'parasitic poster' problem there.
Perhaps you should consider getting rid of whatever it is (-;.
I could make a good guess but I'll leave you to your own conclusions.
Jake
Bill
Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
Bullshit Jake. You jumped in to help Bob against my "totally wrong
information you posted".
Name what was wrong. You said it more than once.
Just what is your expertise in flat rate that you defend it so
vociferously?
The rest of your other post isn't worth answering point for point.
Let me post the "horseshit" again.
OP
> Anyone ever heard of, or belong to, AirTime 500? The comapny I work
> for belongs to them. We watched some training tapes the other day and
> all I could think about the speaker was "did this guy drink the
> koolaid or what?"
My reply:
> They've been around for years. Same old slobber. The new band wagon to
> jump on you can glean from Contracting Business. Which is looking to
> become Matt Michel's personal newsletter.
--
TURTLE
> In article <h4bQe.71793$084.54741@attbi_s22>,
> Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> >>marketing is not that aggressive, our growth has been slow-but-sure, and
>> >>I really have no interest in it, anyhow.
>> >
>> >
>> > Then why did you post?
>> >
>>
>> Because you posted horseshit, my friend... the same thing you harp on
>> Turtle about... and Bob challenged you (somewhat un-civilized)... and
>> you came back with more horseshit.
>>
>> Got any more issues you want to avoid discussing?
>>
>> Jake
>
> Bullshit Jake. You jumped in to help Bob against my "totally wrong
> information you posted".
> Name what was wrong. You said it more than once.
>
This is Turtle.
He does not have to for the whole thing is horseshit that you wrote !
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:70g2h1d61iqrj7jmu...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 04:29:01 GMT, Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Bill wrote:
>>> In article <CcaQe.71685$084.58482@attbi_s22>,
>>> Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>marketing is not that aggressive, our growth has been slow-but-sure, and
>>>>I really have no interest in it, anyhow.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then why did you post?
>>>
>>
>>Because you posted horseshit, my friend... the same thing you harp on
>>Turtle about... and Bob challenged you (somewhat un-civilized)... and
>>you came back with more horseshit.
>>
>>Got any more issues you want to avoid discussing?
>
> I have this ingrown hair on my ass I'd rather not talk about,
> if that helps any .....
This is Turtle.
Be quiet for men are talking here.
TURTLE
steeda
Bill, honest question. Do you ever STFU?
Bob Pietrangelo
to quiz me on. I hide nothing. I do not pay my guys by flat rate. They
are Union employees, and I would never get away with it. My customers love
my flat rate. They are not being gouged. My business is flourishing, I was
invited to join Airtime 500, anybody with a check is invited to join. I
study every consultant and business advisor I can, even my competitiors, and
they study mine. Bill you are a miserable fuck. You never have anything
but negativities to post. I have NEVER read a beneficial post from you.
I cna't see how such a reputable commercial contractor as your self be so
fucking miserable. Is business that bad, does your partner mistreat you, or
is this just how you are. What kind of immature asshole talks about sex and
someones mother, unless you are trying to show you ass on some school yard.
I am not going to dwell on what you say, I just wanted to reply about me
being quizzed about my business. It actually has doubled in size, revenue,
and profit this year. It came from following the lead of other successful
people.
Goodluck in your miserableness, I hope it keeps you happy, one thing it will
do is reduce the number of people at your funeral, when you die a miserable
little man
PLONK
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bo...@comcast.net
b...@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
(sorry to see the above bothers you)
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message
news:Hp3Qe.60774$gB.5...@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Bob Pietrangelo
original post I mentioned it once. All I did was clear the air about Matt
Michel and what he was truly involved with. And tell Bill he was a
miserable fuck. I tell my best friend he is a miserable fuck, because he
is, I guess he is just more of a man to admit it!
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bo...@comcast.net
b...@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message
news:RLbQe.50525$2Q3....@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Tekkie®
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.
> I have this ingrown hair on my ass I'd rather not talk about,
> if that helps any .....
>
>
Hmmmm, it bears a striking resemblance to Stumped - I've heard - not seen.
--
Tekkie
Bill
"Bob Pietrangelo" <bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Who the hell brought up flat rate other than Bill? I don't believe in my
> original post I mentioned it once. All I did was clear the air about Matt
> Michel and what he was truly involved with. And tell Bill he was a
> miserable fuck. I tell my best friend he is a miserable fuck, because he
> is, I guess he is just more of a man to admit it!
Maybe you should tell others what Airtime 500's main thrust is Bob.
You should also tell people what the guy saw on the tape.
And what koolaid you think is being dispensed.
Or are you gonna beg off not knowing or caring.
Matt Michel one of your miserable fucks Bob?
You can have miserable fucks as friends Bob. I have a higher standard.
That in my opinion it looks like Contracting Business is turning into
Matt Michel's personal newsletter that outrageous a statement?
This how your "non-combative" Service Roundtable buddies act?
Bill
"Bob Pietrangelo" <bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Bob *waves* back to Bill.
Bob gets the single digit salute. (Bob obviously missed the context of
the original post)
What particulars about my business would you like
> to quiz me on. I hide nothing.
Sit down Bob. Nobody cares. The point was Jake wasn't grilling you. That
was the point. Put your P&L's away.
I do not pay my guys by flat rate. They
> are Union employees, and I would never get away with it.
Interesting statement.
My customers love
> my flat rate. They are not being gouged. My business is flourishing, I was
> invited to join Airtime 500, anybody with a check is invited to join.
I score a point here I believe.
I
> study every consultant and business advisor I can, even my competitiors, and
> they study mine. Bill you are a miserable fuck. You never have anything
> but negativities to post. I have NEVER read a beneficial post from you.
You seem to only grasp half of what you read Bob. Anything I add would
really fuck you up.
I must have helped some poor ole moaner at least once. Maybe not.
What have you posted that's been beneficial Bob? How about something
hard for you. Like something most here didn't already know.
I don't post my business or discuss it here. You do as you like. I'm not
into "you show me yours, I'll show you mine".
> I cna't see how such a reputable commercial contractor as your self be so
> fucking miserable. Is business that bad, does your partner mistreat you, or
> is this just how you are. What kind of immature asshole talks about sex and
> someones mother, unless you are trying to show you ass on some school yard.
Annnnnnt. Too late Bob. Your outrages have been noted. Somebody talking
about your mother isn't nearly as bad as saying it looks like
Contracting Business is becoming Matt's personal newsletter.
> I am not going to dwell on what you say, I just wanted to reply about me
> being quizzed about my business. It actually has doubled in size, revenue,
> and profit this year. It came from following the lead of other successful
> people.
Nobody is quizzing you. You just need to run off before anything like
the content of the original post gets brought up and it's shown you
haven't a clue about what the guy meant or why it looks like CB is
becoming Matt's newsletter.
You haven't addressed the meat once Bob. What koolaid? You just saw what
you thought was a cheap easy opportunity to jump on a post of mine.
Not that you had any facts about the post but that your opinion was high
and mighty.
> Goodluck in your miserableness, I hope it keeps you happy, one thing it will
> do is reduce the number of people at your funeral, when you die a miserable
> little man
If it makes feel any better Bob. I'll come to yours. I've taken a piss
there before.
If this post is too long foe you, for brevity you can just call me a
miserable fuck and post what the koolaid was.
PS- I wasn't going to post this but your eagerness to "share" your
business information may be something you might want to reconsider.
*I am glad to see they have you trained. You'll "share" your business
information as fast as a whore drops her pants.*
Something to think about Bobby. I suggest that if you feel the need to
brag, find a good bartender.
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Bill You have been dumped on by Bob . Please move on to some other unluck soal
to prey on.
TURTLE
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> Bill You have been dumped on by Bob . Please move on to some other unluck
> soal
> to prey on.
Bob's pissing in the wind.
You however weasel have shit all over yourself. Everyone can smell the
stink.
The new guy only squeezed your head just a tad too.
So after your bitch slapping from the new guy you came to this thread
for what?
To see if Bob will kiss your boo boo?
Or are you just in need of another bitch slapping and are hitting me up
for a fix?
That's sick weasel. Like a crack whore.
Have noonie slap you. And no you can't s........
TURTLE
> In article <eOwQe.10619$7F....@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> This is Turtle.
>>
>> Bill You have been dumped on by Bob . Please move on to some other unluck
>> soal
>> to prey on.
>
> Bob's pissing in the wind.
> You however weasel have shit all over yourself. Everyone can smell the
> stink.
> The new guy only squeezed your head just a tad too.
>
> So after your bitch slapping from the new guy you came to this thread
> for what?
> To see if Bob will kiss your boo boo?
>
> Or are you just in need of another bitch slapping and are hitting me up
> for a fix?
>
> That's sick weasel. Like a crack whore.
>
> Have noonie slap you. And no you can't s........
>
This is Turtle.
Billy Bob , paul is calling you over to blow him !
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Remember Billy Bob there is other newsgroups that are respectiable and will
through you out on your ear in a heart beat. I would like to see you talk on the
Round table and see how long you last.
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:NbEQe.15186$N1....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
In other words, last time you tried it was like a PBR match...you were going
for a full 13 seconds...
> TURTLE
>
TURTLE
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <st...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:9iFQe.446$Bv2....@eagle.america.net...
this is Turtle.
The PBS is having hell keeping up with all the trolls they draw up and much less
me. Dream On.
TURTLE
Bob Pietrangelo
> >> You should also tell people what the guy saw on the tape.
> >> And what koolaid you think is being dispensed.
> >> Or are you gonna beg off not knowing or caring.
What Koolaid, and what tape, are you really that nut's. What in the hell
are you talking about. First flat rate dillusions, now koolaid and tape
dillusions. Bill..................................are you OK, or did the
medication wear off?
TURTLE
"Bob Pietrangelo" <bo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9s6dncj8D6s...@comcast.com...
This is Turtle.
When they get like this it is hard to understand their thoughts. I have been
told they were crashing and burning and will need a day to build their thoughts
back up and start up again. Maybe they will be better tomorrow.
TURTLE
Bill
"Bob Pietrangelo" <bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
Bob you miserable fuck.
So after all the foregoing posts you now claim you have no idea eh?
Thanks for confirming you were merely jumping on my post.
You miserable fuck.
The Original Post:
"Anyone ever heard of, or belong to, AirTime 500? The comapny I work
for belongs to them. We watched some training tapes the other day and
all I could think about the speaker was "did this guy drink the
koolaid or what?""
And Bob. Don't post about shit you obviously know nothing about.
Joining SR for the free two months doesn't make you an expert on
anything posted anywhere.
You still haven't a clue why I posted CB is looking like Matt's personal
newsletter do you Bobby?
Now we know why you call your best friends miserable fucks. It's the
company they keep.
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> When they get like this it is hard to understand their thoughts. I have been
> told they were crashing and burning and will need a day to build their
> thoughts
> back up and start up again. Maybe they will be better tomorrow.
You're just a pathetic retard weasel. When you get past posting lies,
hack shit and HVAC 101 questions. Maybe you won't be ignored as much.
Everyone knows the two reasons you post inane questions weasel.
Stupidity and what you think are Machiavellian posts.
Sucks to be you.
Power's Mechanical
Newsgroups: alt.hvac
From: Jake <jkelle...@insightbb.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:40:23 GMT
Local: Sat, Aug 27 2005 1:40 pm
Subject: Re: AirTime 500
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
>>Bill...
>>I read this reply and have to ask AGAIN: Who are you?
> I do primarily commercial refrigeration. Some HVAC.
Thank you... that's somewhat helpful. Are you a owner? How large a
business? What pricing method do you primarily use?
xxxx
Jake, mouse is a one man band who works out of his house and uses a
storage shed as a shop. I suspect his "comercial refrigeration"
consists of servicing fractional horsepower reach-ins and small
walk-ins for places like 7-11 and the local beer stores. He is nothing
more than a small time loser with a big mouth. The asshole has to run
around incognito with a unmarked van because he cant afford any signage
on it or he dont want the inspectors nosing around his hacked up shit.
Thats who Bill, aka mouse is. A nobody, which accounts for his
constant shitty attitude.
Bill
"Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jake, mouse is a one man band who works out of his house and uses a
> storage shed as a shop. I suspect his "comercial refrigeration"
> consists of servicing fractional horsepower reach-ins and small
> walk-ins for places like 7-11 and the local beer stores. He is nothing
> more than a small time loser with a big mouth. The asshole has to run
> around incognito with a unmarked van because he cant afford any signage
> on it or he dont want the inspectors nosing around his hacked up shit.
> Thats who Bill, aka mouse is. A nobody, which accounts for his
> constant shitty attitude.
Whassamatter mikey? The steward on vacation? lol
TURTLE
Bill you must have turned left just on the other side of the Twilight Zone ! By
the way , Are you kind to Rod Sterilene ?
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
English motherfucker? Do you know it? Do you speak it?
Can you fucking write it?
WTF did you say?
>
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Hummmmmmm , Still not understanding the business air you ?
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
yawn..small timer..
>
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Yes I know you get sleepy when you have to try to learn a business but keep
tring and you might learn the business one day. Now your still good at trolling
and should be given a throphy for your great work in Trolling the newsgroup.
TURTLE
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>>> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:NbEQe.15186$N1....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> >>>>>> This is Turtle.
> Yes I know you get sleepy when you have to try to learn a business but keep
> tring and you might learn the business one day. Now your still good at
> trolling
> and should be given a throphy for your great work in Trolling the newsgroup.
>
> TURTLE
Why are you posting in this thread weasel except to troll.
You don't have a business. A search proves that. You're just an old
fucked up hack. Your posts prove that.
Post your bullshit reply here----->
Carolina Breeze HVAC
LOL..yea..ok...
how many did your company get installed today Terry?
7 going in as we type this...
Oh well..how little you know.
> TURTLE
>
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Hummm i doodled around all day today with 2 jobs and you worked your ass off
with 7 units and then you call me dumb ? WOW You got a lot to learn.
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
Actually, I shot trap and skeet most of the day...posted on here a
bit..washed the personal cars and van...mowed the yard...
Actually, I didnt really do alot I didnt want to do..
Now..you did two resi jobs and you feel important...
shame...
>
> TURTLE
>
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
You did not do anything that a hand on welfare could do in a day. Try getting
out and work in the business and you can post less bullshit and more facts.
TURTLE