How to change oil in a rotary compressor?
Lars S
I have a brand new small R22 Fuji rotary (on/off) compressor which I
intend to
use for 407C and therefore an oil change to Ester type is neccesary.
Can only drain oil (~300ml) out of a hole I drilled close to the
connection (HP) non from the suction line (muffler is removed). From
what I have read there should be some oil also in the lower (suction)
part or...?
/Lars S
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Take it to Jiffy Lube.
Tell them you want 'The Works'.
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Stormin Mormon
tipping it upside down. Then power it up, and the oil blows
out the high side.
You may be able to pump the new oil in, through the high
side line.
Drilling a hole in the compressor shell? I hope you have
the ability to weld it shut?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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.
"Lars S" <lars.s...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:b893b994-1f7a-4960...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Lars S
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Years ago, I drained the oil out of a window AC rotary, by
> tipping it upside down. Then power it up, and the oil blows
> out the high side.
>
> You may be able to pump the new oil in, through the high
> side line.
>
> Drilling a hole in the compressor shell? I hope you have
> the ability to weld it shut?
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> news:b893b994-1f7a-4960...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Hello, Im new to this forum.
> I have a brand new small R22 Fuji rotary (on/off) compressor
> which I
> intend to
> use for 407C and therefore an oil change to Ester type is
> neccesary.
> Can only drain oil (~300ml) out of a hole I drilled close to
> the
> connection (HP) non from the suction line (muffler is
> removed). From
> what I have read there should be some oil also in the lower
> (suction)
> part or...?
>
> /Lars S
Thanks Christopher!
Yes welding is no problem, I know many refr engineers but no one knows
how to change oil...
If I only fill oil in the high side, will the suction side run dry
until oil has been recirculated?
/Lars S
Stormin Mormon
As I understand it, the high pressure side goes to the area
around the pump. If it were an automotive engine, what would
be called the crankcase. So, pumping oil in the high side
should be same as filling the crankcase. The oil should
lubricate nearly immediately. You won't get 100% of the old
oil out, so there should be enough to lube for the first
couple seconds.
That's just my experience from trying it with one
compressor.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Lars S" <lars.s...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:092c28e5-47e0-4319...@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Steve
Why not get a compressor with the correct oil in it in the first place??
Lars S
> "Lars S" <lars.sell...@telia.com> wrote in message
Thats logical, but the reason is that got this new compressor for free
some time ago and it fits wery well (except for the oil) in my project
which will be much cheaper to realize if I dont have to buy a new one.
Everyone with ideas around oil change in rotarys are welcome!
/Lars S
tn...@mucks.net
<lars.s...@telia.com> wrote:
Wasn't sure what you meant by rotary so I looked it up. According
to my research it's a screw pump. If that's the case then I have
changed oil in a rotary compressors before.
Create pressure in the system then valve off any means for the
pressure to bleed off once you shut it down. Find the appropriate
outlet for the used oil and let the trapped are force it out.
Alternatively provide an outside source of air pressure and do
the same.
Lars S
Thanks, yes, the big rotarys are of screw type but this is a small
hermetic rotary compressor (as used in many residential split AC's),
no service valves etc for oil; the oil is never ment to be changed.
(Picture http://www.samsung.com/global/business/rotary/images/img_39frame.gif)
All ideas are welcome!
/Lars S
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<lars.s...@telia.com> wrote:
>On 27 Juli, 20:42, t...@mucks.net wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:50:07 -0700 (PDT), Lars S
>>
>> <lars.sell...@telia.com> wrote:
>> >Hello, Im new to this forum.
>> >I have a brand new small R22 Fuji rotary (on/off) compressor which I
>> >intend to
>> >use for 407C and therefore an oil change to Ester type is neccesary.
>> >Can only drain oil (~300ml) out of a hole I drilled close to the
>> >connection (HP) non from the suction line (muffler is removed). From
>> >what I have read there should be some oil also in the lower (suction)
>> >part or...?
>>
>> >/Lars S
>>
>> Wasn't sure what you meant by rotary so I looked it up. According
>> to my research it's a screw pump.
Wrong.
> If that's the case then I �have
>> changed oil in a rotary compressors before.
>>
>> Create pressure in the system then valve off any means for the
>> pressure to bleed off once you shut it down. �Find the appropriate
>> outlet for the used oil and let the trapped are force it out.
>> Alternatively provide an outside source of air pressure and do
>> the same.
>
>Thanks, yes, the big rotarys are of screw type but this is a small
>hermetic rotary compressor (as used in many residential split AC's),
>no service valves etc for oil; the oil is never ment to be changed.
>(Picture http://www.samsung.com/global/business/rotary/images/img_39frame.gif)
>
>All ideas are welcome!
>
>
>/Lars S
--
tn...@mucks.net
>>> Wasn't sure what you meant by rotary so I looked it up. According
>>> to my research it's a screw pump.
>
> Wrong.
>
type of screw pump.
Old and Grunpy
Screw compressor consist of two veins machined as screw
and while they turning in opposite direction from each other or to
ward each other, can pump or suck depend what is machine use for.
Rotary is base on as vein type similar to your vacuum pump but
that is not true rotary either, true rotary pumps are mostly used
on hydraulic systems where high pressure are needed (old style)
<tn...@mucks.net> wrote in message
news:2m4s65l0m31k9omqg...@4ax.com...
tn...@mucks.net
<t.s...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Sorry young man but you are not totally right or totally wrong.
>Screw compressor consist of two veins machined as screw
>and while they turning in opposite direction from each other or to
>ward each other, can pump or suck depend what is machine use for.
They are not veins. They are screws that are machined in a way that
compresses the gas or liquid in a given direction.
>Rotary is base on as vein type similar to your vacuum pump but
>that is not true rotary either, true rotary pumps are mostly used
>on hydraulic systems where high pressure are needed (old style)
Sorry. You are wrong. Vein pumps are Vane pumps. Vane pumps can be
considered a rotary compressor, but when talking about air conditioner
compressors the term" rotary compressor" is most likely a rotary screw
compressor.
Hydraulic pumps can be any type of positive displacement pump. Usually
a high pressure pump such as a piston, vane, gear or even a screw
pump.
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
No, 'rotary compressor' refers to a very specific design, and
is not a generic term for 'compressors that spin round and round in
some way or fashion'.
A screw compressor is a screw compressor, not a 'rotary'.
>>>
>BTW pumps are not compressors. And Paul is right. Sorry.
Stormin Mormon
* Screw
* Rotary vane
* Rotary scroll
For smaller AC, I think rotary vane is common.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
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<tn...@mucks.net> wrote in message
news:2m4s65l0m31k9omqg...@4ax.com...
Who's wrong. Certainly not me. "A rotary compressor" is a
type of screw pump.
Stormin Mormon
building a walk in cooler, or what?
--
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Learn more about Jesus
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"Lars S" <lars.s...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:d0ef34e8-60c3-453a...@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Lars S
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Please be kind enough to tell us what you're doing. You
> building a walk in cooler, or what?
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> news:d0ef34e8-60c3-453a...@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Everyone with ideas around oil change in rotarys are
> welcome!
>
> /Lars S
No, this is a heat pump project, the evaporator is approx 50m copper
tube in the soil, the condenser is indoors blowing hot air. These
systems are quite common up in our arctic regions.
For me it is a low cost project were I can find most of the parts for
free since I work in conjuction with a refrigeration company.
/Lars S
Stormin Mormon
at low temps. R-22 could work.
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Learn more about Jesus
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"Lars S" <lars.s...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:f3c41952-904a-4875...@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Lars S
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm. So, you'd need a low temp referigerant, to absorb heat
> at low temps. R-22 could work.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> news:f3c41952-904a-4875...@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> No, this is a heat pump project, the evaporator is approx
> 50m copper
> tube in the soil, the condenser is indoors blowing hot air.
> These
> systems are quite common up in our arctic regions.
> For me it is a low cost project were I can find most of the
> parts for
> free since I work in conjuction with a refrigeration
> company.
>
> /Lars S
Yes R22 should work and also it should work with the mineral based oil
in the compressor...but R22 is forbidden and not available in my
country since about 10 years :=(
The gas to use in these applications nowdays is (normally) R407C, wery
similar to R22 in pressure etc but ester oil is needed.
/Lars S
Steve
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h4mreg$htl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Hmm. So, you'd need a low temp referigerant, to absorb heat
> at low temps. R-22 could work.
There are a number of refrigerants that are not on the "endangered species"
list that would work just fine with mineral oil.
Old and Grunpy
<tn...@mucks.net> wrote in message
news:vhcs655uberfr8e71...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:19:19 -0400, "Old and Grunpy"
> <t.s...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Sorry young man but you are not totally right or totally wrong.
>>Screw compressor consist of two veins machined as screw
>>and while they turning in opposite direction from each other or to
>>ward each other, can pump or suck depend what is machine use for.
>
> They are not veins. They are screws that are machined in a way that
> compresses the gas or liquid in a given direction.
>
>>Rotary is base on as vein type similar to your vacuum pump but
>>that is not true rotary either, true rotary pumps are mostly used
>>on hydraulic systems where high pressure are needed (old style)
>
> Sorry. You are wrong. Vein pumps are Vane pumps. Vane pumps can be
> considered a rotary compressor, but when talking about air conditioner
> compressors the term" rotary compressor" is most likely a rotary screw
> compressor.
>
open this two sites then talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlJZTg8mNCY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lysholm_screw_rotors.jpg
Stormin Mormon
from problems that aren't really a problem.
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Learn more about Jesus
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"Lars S" <lars.s...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:e48a51f4-1c6f-4924...@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
Lars S
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:h4mreg$htl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Hmm. So, you'd need a low temp referigerant, to absorb heat
> > at low temps. R-22 could work.
>
> There are a number of refrigerants that are not on the "endangered species"
> list that would work just fine with mineral oil.
Did'nt think of anything else than R407C before I started to empty it
from oil since the compressor is designed for R22 and 407 is wery
close ()and I can get 407 wery cheap...
/Lars S
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Stormy Mormy would put compressed air from his local service
station in it, if it were free.
tn...@mucks.net
Could be wrong but looks like a scroll compressor to me. If a scroll
compressor is considered a rotary compressor then any rotating
pump/compressor could be considered rotary.
The OP stated an oil change in an rotary air conditioner compressor.
The rotary screw type normally are filled with oil. Is the scroll type
or the youtube link type filled with oil?
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lysholm_screw_rotors.jpg
>
The Daring Dufas
> with it. BTW Stormy is a idiot posing as a hvac tech as his remark
> about using a low temp ref shows. R-22 is not typically used in a low
> temp applications. It can be used as such but it has special needs
> when its used in low temp apps. Your application would be considered
> high temp. Its all about evap temps not boiling points like the dumb
> ass mormon thinks.
Whenever I've used R22 in low temp applications, hell,
even in refrigeration medium temp applications I always
have to have a defrost system. A lot of the Domino's
Pizza stores switched over to R22 in the walk-in coolers
some years back and they all have to have defrost systems.
I have to rebuild one here soon.
TDD
Stormin Mormon
on a few, too.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in
message news:h4nof4$97j$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
That One
/Lars S
You mean you are STEALING from your employer?
The Daring Dufas
> wants 34 or cooler? as a target temp so a clock might be needed. In a
> 36-40F box you shouldnt need anything but off cycle lessen it isnt
> sized or adjusted right.
The R22 walk-in coolers come from the factory with defrost
timers. In order to get the 33-40 box temps, the evap runs
a lot colder and of course the darn door does not stay shut.
I like to set them at 35 because of all the meat products
they stock and of course it helps keep the food temps where
the health dept likes to see them with the door being open
so much. I have one at a store I service that was an R12
system originally, it's now running on 416a and keeps on
running better than most. It has a three phase semi hermetic
compressor, large receiver and pump down control, it's very
reliable because it was installed CORRECTLY. The crap I
see when some (techs?) throw them in is astounding. Oh darn,
there goes my blood pressure.
TDD
Don Ocean
> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:07:31 -0700 (PDT), Lars S
> <lars.s...@telia.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28 Juli, 15:04, "Steve" <jstev...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:h4mreg$htl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>>> Hmm. So, you'd need a low temp referigerant, to absorb heat
>>>> at low temps. R-22 could work.
>>> There are a number of refrigerants that are not on the "endangered species"
>>> list that would work just fine with mineral oil.
>> Did'nt think of anything else than R407C before I started to empty it
>>from oil since the compressor is designed for R22 and 407 is wery
>> close ()and I can get 407 wery cheap...
>>
>>
>> /Lars S
>
> Stormy Mormy would put compressed air from his local service
> station in it, if it were free.
That would work for a vortex system.
>
>
Lars S
> Hello, Im new to this forum.
> I have a brand new small R22 Fuji rotary (on/off) compressor which I
> intend to
> use for 407C and therefore an oil change to Ester type is neccesary.
> Can only drain oil (~300ml) out of a hole I drilled close to the
> connection (HP) non from the suction line (muffler is removed). From
> what I have read there should be some oil also in the lower (suction)
> part or...?
>
> /Lars S
From what I have read the last days on the Internet it could be so
that also the lower part of the compressor is connected to the HP side
thanks to the oil pump (a hollow main axle).
Draining oil from the suction pipe may not be possible since the
suction pipe seems to be directely connected to the compressor chamber
intake.
Drilling a small hole also in the bottom part ("sump") could be the
way to empty the compressor from oil.
/Lars S
The Daring Dufas
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:13:58 -0400, The King
> <The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:16:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>> high temp) regardless of what ref is used. R 12 med temp evaps run
>> at the same temperatures as an R 22 med temp evap. No need for a
>> defrost clock just because it has R 22 in it. There may be other
>> reasons for a defrost clock but the type of ref isnt one of them.
>
> I have a few beore I leave so heres my parting thoughts on your
> defrost problem. I use a 6F differential on the control setting. So
> with a 35F box cut out air temp would be 32F and cut in temp would be
> 38F. So at a target avg of 35.. yeah, you might want a defrost
> clock.
>
> I'd bump the temp up a half a degree or so to keep the air temps above
> 32F. That way you maintain a more consistant box temp which is good
> for the product and the consumer.
>
Since I'm not the worlds leading expert on refrigeration/HVAC,
I can only comment on my own personal experience with the various
equipment over the last four decades. I would have to research
the subject to give you any sort of proper and precise explanation.
All I can say is that every R22 walk-in cooler I've ever seen, has
had a defrost system except for the homemade ones that didn't work
until they were equipped with some sort of defrost system. Every
factory built condensing unit for an R22 walk-in cooler including
walk-in freezers has had some sort of defrost system. Passive for
the coolers, active for the freezers. I'm always willing to learn
new things so if you can tell me more and point me to the source,
I have no problem being corrected. When it comes to education, my
ego doesn't get in the way.
TDD
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
>
>I hate to type and run but I have to pack the bike now and off to
>Sturgis. :)
Have fun parking next to 150,000 other bikes just like
yours, you rugged individualist, you :-)
The Daring Dufas
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:53:24 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>
> I agree every ref system needs some sort of defrost. it could be
> either electric, hot gas, manual, or off cycle.
>
> What you said was every r22 cooler needs a defrost clock. I don't see
> why it would. Most refers are designed to have a 2/3 run time. The
> other 1/3 is off. When it is off the space warms and any light
> accumulation of frost should melt off before the next start. About
> the only time I have seen or had to put a timer in is when the
> customer wants the coldest beer in town and wants the coolers to run
> 30-35F. At those temps there is not enough off time above freezing F
> to allow for a natural defrost and a defrost clock is needed.
>
> Why is it an r 22 cooler needs a clock when a r 12 cooler didn't.
> Just askin..
>
> The evap temps are the same for each and every ref used for medium
> temp work at a 10 delta. The refrigerants pressure/temp relationships
> change with the type of refrigerant and they all have different
> boiling points and properties. Some temps are cooler at x pressure
> and some are warmer. They each have a different capacity per pound
> circulated and all that jazz but those factors are why there are
> different ratings for compressor duty and the type of refrigerant used
> in them.
> I hate to type and run but I have to pack the bike now and off to
> Sturgis. :)
Careful out there, the cage drivers are out to get you.
Passive defrost: Cut the flow of refrigerant, leave the
evaporator fan/fans running. Ambient temp rises melting
the frost buildup. Active defrost: Cut the flow of freon,
turn off the evaporator fan/fans, turn on electric heaters
or use a hot gas defrost cycle to melt the ice buildup.
I've never had the R12 systems freeze up unless the temp
was set too low or the evaporator air flow was impeded.
R22 walk-in coolers always seem to freeze up without a
timed defrost cycle. All those years ago when I was at
college studying for my degree in rocket surgery, the
classes never covered walk-in coolers so I can't give you
a scientific explanation.
TDD
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in
message news:h4q9oo$9sd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Stormin Mormon
R-22, and so it tends to make a frozen spot, which spreads
and covers the evap?
No proof. Just pulling ideas out of the sky.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in
message news:h4qu4e$d24$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:21:18 -0400, .p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:41:10 -0400, The King
>><The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I hate to type and run but I have to pack the bike now and off to
>>>Sturgis. :)
>>
>> Have fun parking next to 150,000 other bikes just like
>>yours, you rugged individualist, you :-)
>
>Its not as bad as it looks on TV. :)
>
>I got back last night around midnight after leaving the Sioux Falls
>area at 5:30am. Ran in over eight hundred miles of pouring down rain
>and a cross wind that was unbelievable.
Sounds like a big fun ride ! Not ..... :-)
> All in all it was a good
>trip and we logged over 3200 miles.
You missed the hail ? Darn :-)
Was this Sturgis or an Iron Butt ride ???
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:29:43 -0400, .p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:48:05 -0400, The King
>><The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:21:18 -0400, .p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:41:10 -0400, The King
>>>><The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I hate to type and run but I have to pack the bike now and off to
>>>>>Sturgis. :)
>>>>
>>>> Have fun parking next to 150,000 other bikes just like
>>>>yours, you rugged individualist, you :-)
>>>
>>>Its not as bad as it looks on TV. :)
>>>
>>>I got back last night around midnight after leaving the Sioux Falls
>>>area at 5:30am. Ran in over eight hundred miles of pouring down rain
>>>and a cross wind that was unbelievable.
>>
>> Sounds like a big fun ride ! Not ..... :-)
>
>No, you will be happy to know it sucked big time. It really sucked
>going through Chicago. That took two hours or more. Clutching,
>braking, slow racing. In the fucking pouring down rain. Yeah.. it
>was a blast. :)
Chicago sucks in GOOD weather. If it's ever had any.
>>> All in all it was a good
>>>trip and we logged over 3200 miles.
>>
>> You missed the hail ? Darn :-)
>Yeah that storm blew in from the east side. I was at the Broken Spoke
>drinking beer talking to some guy in the Boozefighters. Town didn't
>get any hail as far as i know. Lots of wind and rain though. My
>brother is a painter so I don't worry about a few dents. Shortly
>after I bought it I was caught in hail and got a few small dents in
>the front fender. So me being mister smartie pants decided he would be
>a ding master and pop them out. The short of it was I ended up with
>two innies and three outies. :/ I sent it to my bro and within a
>week he had it back to me so dents are no big deal.
>>
>> Was this Sturgis or an Iron Butt ride ???
>
>We put 800 on riding the region after the 1200 to took to get there.
>Around the 3200 mark is when my ass quit hurting. :)
Yeh - when it went totally numb :-)
>
>My bro had his seat re-done by some guy in Rapid City while out we
>were there. He has a Badlander seat on his bike and he said it sucked
>pretty bad. What they did is take the cover off, cut out the area
>that you sit on and replace it with some memory foam. He said it
>rides great now.
That One
"The King" <The...@homeonthethrone.com> wrote in message
news:8h5r751m9b5g58uv2...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:10:53 -0400, .p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
> wrote:
> snipage
>>>>
>>>> Was this Sturgis or an Iron Butt ride ???
>>>
>>>We put 800 on riding the region after the 1200 to took to get there.
>>>Around the 3200 mark is when my ass quit hurting. :)
>>
>> Yeh - when it went totally numb :-)
>>
>
Doesn't that "Monkey Butt" stuff help?
Or maybe some of that "AssON", made by the HeadOn people?
