Floor registers versus Wall registers?
Jim Mattheiss
We are adding an addition on to our ranch house. We've had 2 HVAC
contractors out for estimates on the work.
The second contractor wants to put floor registers and floor returns in the
addition. I've only seen the registers and returns that are set in the
walls, not the floor. Is this a common practice? My GC (who's dear
departed father-in-law was in the HVAC trade) says that returns shoud be set
high in the walls, not in the floor.
I understand that hot air "rises" and cold air "settles", so it makes sense
to deliver hot air low and cold air high. I am confused on the returns
though.
Dare I ask: What's the best approach for delivering heating and cooling via
forced air? We are in New Jersey, so we get humid 90's in the summer and
20's to 30's in the winter.
Did I mention I have 2 walking fur factories (cats)? I envision cat hair
flying thru the air when the fan starts . . .
Thanks in advance.
Jim Mattheiss
John Mills
>
> Hello:
>
> We are adding an addition on to our ranch house. We've had 2 HVAC
> contractors out for estimates on the work.
>
> The second contractor wants to put floor registers and floor returns in the
> addition. I've only seen the registers and returns that are set in the
> walls, not the floor. Is this a common practice? My GC (who's dear
> departed father-in-law was in the HVAC trade) says that returns shoud be set
> high in the walls, not in the floor.
It's a compromise between heating & cooling. Most common is to put the
supply registers in the floor and the return grilles in the highwall or
ceiling. For cooling, you really need to get your returns up high to get
the warm ceiling air back to the system. That's not the greatest for
heating but will do the job. Supplies in the low wall are poor for
cooling as the cold air will hug the floor and not spread out through
the room. With floor supplies, the cold will be pushed upwards and they
work fine for heating too.
--
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David Andersen
Jim,
You are in a cold climate. You should duct the house for winter operation.
Floor ducts are fine if they will not be blocked with furniture.
High registers are a bigger problem in heating than low registers in
cooling.
Just be sure there are correct number of registers installed to get the
proper "throw" of air from all of the registers. Too many registers, no
flow. Too few, they are noisy and drafty.
You say "floor returns". Do you mean wall registers near the floor or in the
floor?
If in the floor, that is a lazy contractor trick. All kinds of crap will end
up down there.
Return and supply registers can both be low as long as they are not close to
each other.
jmatt...@scholastic.com
I specifically asked the contractor about "floor returns" and he said
that they were holes cut in the floor which ducts were run to and
attached to the return trunk line.
When I questioned him on the desirability of floor versus wall, he said
he would put them whereever I wanted, but he thought floor was better.
I can see floor is easier to do. I have cut out some wall plates in my
other house to add wall ducts, and it's a lousy job.
I understand the importance of balancing the total number of registers
to the airflow of the fan unit. Is there an FAQ on HVAC information? I
would be interested to see how well the contractor did his homework on
airflow for the proposed configuration?
I don't know how to convert CFM to tons of airflow.
I don't know whether a 13 SEER A/C config is good or bad.
I don't know whether 24,000 BTU's of cooling makes sense with 60,000
BTU's of heating.
I really appreciate all of the people who have posted responses to my
question.
I know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but looking after your
contractors is important. My GC had to propose an alternate structural
approach for carrying the existing roof load to the architect. The
architect proposed a complicated arrangement of microlam beams as
opposed to a single steel beam. When I talked to the architect, he got
all snotty and asked if my contractor had an engineering degree. He
does, and upon investigation, the stell beam approach will work. This
change allows a wide open area between my eating area, the kitchen and
the new great room.
Thanks to everybody.
Jim Mattheiss
In article <8spcql$3luo$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Lala
dogs. I am a dog person so I hate floor registers. Dogs like to lay on
them to get warm or cool off and if they have tags on thier collar the
tags will get caught in the registers and poor Fido is stuck there
until you get home from work. I guess it could be the same for cats
too but I dont care, I hate cats hehe.
On another note, after 11 years of commercial HVAC I have decided all
design enigneers and architects are complete morons.
Regards,
Dave
Brian S-
>It's a compromise between heating & cooling. Most common is to put the
>supply registers in the floor and the return grilles in the highwall or
>ceiling. For cooling, you really need to get your returns up high to get
>the warm ceiling air back to the system. That's not the greatest for
>heating but will do the job. Supplies in the low wall are poor for
>cooling as the cold air will hug the floor and not spread out through
>the room. With floor supplies, the cold will be pushed upwards and they
>work fine for heating too.
Hi John,
With a properly designed duct system, is stratification really a
problem? I bet there's not a 1 degree difference between the ceiling
and floor. I don't think it makes much of a difference where the
supplies and returns are where comfort is concerned. It's more of an
asthetic issue.
Brian
Vicki
Lala wrote:
> One problem with floor registers that you dont hear much about is with
> dogs. I am a dog person so I hate floor registers. Dogs like to lay on
> them to get warm or cool off and if they have tags on thier collar the
> tags will get caught in the registers and poor Fido is stuck there
> until you get home from work. I guess it could be the same for cats
> too but I dont care, I hate cats hehe.
Cats don't wear tags, generally. And their owners are smart enough to
buy the breakaway collars for them that allow them to get free if they get
their collar snagged in something. Of course, a cat won't be foolish
enough to get caught in ways that dogs will.
>
> On another note, after 11 years of commercial HVAC I have decided all
> design enigneers and architects are complete morons.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
It took you eleven years to figure that out? ;-D
Vicki
P.S. I have both cats AND a dog.
jnr1
In front of windows to blanket heat loss
Return air grilles should be on inside walls
The best system is to have high and low grilles with a damper on the
bottom one
This allows for seasonal adjustment (return high in summer and low in
winter)
As for the cats;
You should have at least a media filter to catch the hair and if it fits
your budget, a HEPA by-pass type air cleaner to catch the really small
particles like cat dander
POPPYPLANK
la...@teletubies.are.evil.org (Lala) writes:
>On another note, after 11 years of commercial HVAC I have decided all
>design enigneers and architects are complete morons.
>
Lala:
That was harsh.
Not all of them...just the ones you dealt with!
Just like me never met a PE I couldn't confuse with facts.
But it is good for our self esteem to have these over paid morons to make fun
of and when life is really good; get paid extras to fix their perfect designs
Vic Plank
Lancaster PA
Matthew Whiting
>
> In article <39f27e08....@news.dimensional.com>,
> la...@teletubies.are.evil.org (Lala) writes:
>
> >design enigneers and architects are complete morons.
> >
>
> That was harsh.
> Not all of them...just the ones you dealt with!
> Just like me never met a PE I couldn't confuse with facts.
> But it is good for our self esteem to have these over paid morons to make fun
> of and when life is really good; get paid extras to fix their perfect designs
>
> Vic Plank
> Lancaster PA
If it wasn't for the engineers, what would you install? Wood stoves?
Ha, ha, ha...
Everyone makes mistakes, doesn't matter what occupation you have. And
every occupation has its share of idiots. I've worked at a variety of
jobs, from unskilled labor to skilled labor to professional, and I've
known good people and idiots at every one of them.
Matt (an engineer and a PE)
John Gilmer
"Lala" <la...@teletubies.are.evil.org> wrote in message
news:39f27e08....@news.dimensional.com...
> One problem with floor registers that you dont hear much about is with
> dogs. I am a dog person so I hate floor registers. Dogs like to lay on
> them to get warm or cool off and if they have tags on thier collar the
> tags will get caught in the registers and poor Fido is stuck there
> until you get home from work. I guess it could be the same for cats
> too but I dont care, I hate cats hehe.
I have to totally agree with you about the cats BUT in the 9 years we have
had our little dog she has yet to catch her tags in any floor register.
If it happened twice with the same dog I would say that Mr. Darwin is
sending you a message to get another dog!
J D
Just a question: I was told by an "old timer" that the reason that the heat
runs are on the outside walls and the returns are on the inside walls is to
save one installation and material cost. Actually what he said was "the
reasoning is that during WWII the availability of metal to do ductwork with
was in very short supply. To this end, it took less material to put the heat
runs on the outside walls and the returns inside."
He also told me that in the "beginning" the runs were reversed. Cold air
returns on the outside walls (where the cold air is) and the heat runs on the
inside walls. The cold air falling off of the outside walls would be drawn
into the returns and the heat replaced on the inside of the room and go to the
ceiling, to the outside of the room and down the wall to the return.
Have house with both types of installs here and I've asked homeowners over the
years how comfortable the homes with each were. The owners with the cold air
returns on the outside walls actually respond more often that they are very
comfortable.
???????????? Just a thought.
Was wondering what anyone else had been told.
Vicki wrote:
> Lala wrote:
>
> > One problem with floor registers that you dont hear much about is with
> > dogs. I am a dog person so I hate floor registers. Dogs like to lay on
> > them to get warm or cool off and if they have tags on thier collar the
> > tags will get caught in the registers and poor Fido is stuck there
> > until you get home from work. I guess it could be the same for cats
> > too but I dont care, I hate cats hehe.
>
> Cats don't wear tags, generally. And their owners are smart enough to
> buy the breakaway collars for them that allow them to get free if they get
> their collar snagged in something. Of course, a cat won't be foolish
> enough to get caught in ways that dogs will.
>
> >
> > On another note, after 11 years of commercial HVAC I have decided all
> > design enigneers and architects are complete morons.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
>
sean_ba...@my-deja.com
In order to optimise comfort consider circular
floor twist diffusers (eg:
http://www.krantz.de/englisch/html/frameleist.html
; http://www.waterloo.co.uk/pdf/2_12_1.pdf)
rather than standard rectangular registers.
Floor twist diffusers are suitable for both
cooling and heating applications, and are usually
offered with a throttling device and dirt
collecting basket.
Unlike standard registers, "twist diffusers"
(also known as "swirl diffusers") have an
extremely high induction ratio, which is to say
that they induce (suck) large amounts of room air
into the supply air streams directly at the
discharge face of each diffuser. This intense
mixing results in quick temperature equalisation
between the supply air streams and room air, as
well as rapid breakdown of the supply air
velocity. This means that high levels of comfort
and operating efficiency are achieved, as the
diffusers do not create draughts, ensure equal
(horizontal and vertical) temperature
distribution, and in winter prevent hot supply
air from stratifying to the ceiling.
In summer, the low velocity room air motion again
ensures draught-free comfort despite the supply
of cool air from floor level. Moreover, the
excellent mixing characteristics prevent the cool
supply air from dumping onto the floor, thereby
eliminating the sensation of "cold feet, warm
head" that standard floor registers often result
in.
Regards,
Sean Badenhorst
In article <39F354E9...@home.com>,
jnr1 <21...@home.com> wrote:
> Registers should go in floor along the perimeter
> In front of windows to blanket heat loss
>
> Return air grilles should be on inside walls
> The best system is to have high and low grilles
with a damper on the
> bottom one
> This allows for seasonal adjustment (return
high in summer and low in
> winter)
>
> As for the cats;
> You should have at least a media filter to
catch the hair and if it fits
> your budget, a HEPA by-pass type air cleaner to
catch the really small
> particles like cat dander
>
> Jim Mattheiss wrote:
> >
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.