refrigeration
Jerry Furman
been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
suggestions?
Noon-Air
use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up to
5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
the cooler being used for??
While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??
"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>question.... why R-414b?? unless thats all you had.... Personally I like to
>use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
>To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up to
>5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
>is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
>the cooler being used for??
>While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??
HE'S RUNNING A 20 DEGREE COIL ! WTF difference does all that
other shit make ??? You got 20 degrees, YOU GOT FUCKING ICE !!!!
Kee-rist .... go do some residential bullshit AC and stop
trying to play refer-man.
>
>"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
>news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>> been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
>> Low pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
>> up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>> suggestions?
>>
>
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Seeing as you're running a 20 degree evap, I suppose you could
EXPECT some freaking ice, huh ?
So, check and fix your defrost problem, whether it be
off-cycle or heaters.
TURTLE
<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:hquok1tu9e6g6oodb...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:54:41 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>question.... why R-414b?? unless thats all you had.... Personally I like to
>>use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
>>To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up to
>>5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
>>is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
>>the cooler being used for??
>>While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??
>
> HE'S RUNNING A 20 DEGREE COIL ! WTF difference does all that
> other shit make ??? You got 20 degrees, YOU GOT FUCKING ICE !!!!
>
> Kee-rist .... go do some residential bullshit AC and stop
> trying to play refer-man.
>
>
This is Turtle.
Hey Pie Face , When a professional in the HVAC/R business speaks you should
listen and maybe you would learn something. There is several ways to control a
20ºF coil which you have no ideal of how if you would listen , you would find
out. OR you could ask one of your cats and they could tell you. Pie Face you
don't have a clue !
TURTLE
TURTLE
<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:unuok1hiee8npnbrs...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
> <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote:
>
>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
>>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
>>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>>suggestions?
>>
>
> Seeing as you're running a 20 degree evap, I suppose you could
> EXPECT some freaking ice, huh ?
>
> So, check and fix your defrost problem, whether it be
> off-cycle or heaters.
>
This is Turtle
Pie Face your guessing again here. These 3 door coolers like he is describing
are usely controlled by cold control thermostat. If you knew what they was
controlled by you could speak on the subject, but as you just guessing on these
reach in coolers you just bullshitting again. These Reach in coolers are
controlled by a cold control thermostat and does not have a defrost timer or
defrost system. Steve was tring to get at the system messing up and rule out the
cold control thermostat. if you want me to explain the cold control thermostat
to you just ask. Now i wish you would stop trouble shooting these type boxes
when you don't have a clue.
TURTLE
Noon-Air
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_693f.5097$Ls....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
In a private e-mail, the OP said that the cooler only has an air temp type
stat and cap tubes. I recommended that he install a cold control. For the
benifit of Paul and others, a cold control is a pressure switch that
maintains temp by cycling on suction pressure, not air temperature. When
cycling on suction pressure with a cold control, and the superheat is
correct, a reach-in cooler will not normally ice up.
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Gee, thanks so FUCKING much for trying to explain that fancy
complicated control to me. Too bad you got it FUCKING WRONG, as
usual.
If you had ever worked on one, you would know that you can ice
up EASILY with a pressure cycle control ( layman's term - 'cold
control' ). Try maintaining a 34 F box and see what happens.
NOW, you fucking moron, the OP needs to stop emailing hacks
like you, and go buy himself a fucking PARAGON TIMER, and set up an
OFF CYCLE DEFROST of 20 minutes, 3 times a day.
To the OP - this means you cut the compressor off via the
control circuit, and leave the evap fans running. If 20 minutes isn't
enough, increase to 30 minutes.
Moron.
TURTLE
<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ib9qk19cmnaiv7et8...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
What you just suggested here is for this customer to add about $500.00 to the
cost of his cooler by installing defrost clock and defrost system and not fix
the cold control the manufactor had installed in it which they have worked good
for 50 years doing it this way. I think you should send this e-mail to copland
and true manufactor of reach in cooler and change their design to your design at
a cost of a extra $500.00 to the box when a simple cold control would do the
same job. ]
My LORD Paul , your calling a Pressure fan control a cold control thermostat
with your words [[[[[[[[[[ If you had ever worked on one, you would know that
you can ice up EASILY with a pressure cycle control [ layman's terms - ' cold
control' ] then try maintaining a 34ºF in a box and see " . Really Paul you
need to talk this over with billy bob and find how these boxes work ]]]]]]]]].
Really Pie Face if you really worked on these boxes you would know that these
manufactors have been using cold control thermostat running these box for 50+
years and doing a good job and you come alone and want to add $500.00 to the
cost of it and then call a cold control thermostat a pressure fan control.
Now let me cut you off here when you say or try to explain to me how the cold
control thermostats work for i have been working on them everysince i was a kid
and probley before you could spell freon. Yes i know your going to have to lie
to get out of this one but if there was ever such a thing as getting cought in a
bullshit of a lier , this is one. That is a good one when you bullshitting and
said a cold control thermostat will not maintain a 34ºF temp on a cooler with
nothing else on it to control it.
Now let me hear you try to bullshit your way out of this one ? Oh Paul , I work
on them and you don't.
TURTLE
Noon-Air
If he really worked on the stuff, he would also know that the cold control
doesn't actually control the evap fans.
> Now let me cut you off here when you say or try to explain to me how the
> cold control thermostats work for i have been working on them everysince i
> was a kid and probley before you could spell freon. Yes i know your going
> to have to lie to get out of this one but if there was ever such a thing
> as getting cought in a bullshit of a lier , this is one. That is a good
> one when you bullshitting and said a cold control thermostat will not
> maintain a 34ºF temp on a cooler with nothing else on it to control it.
>
> Now let me hear you try to bullshit your way out of this one ? Oh Paul , I
> work on them and you don't.
>
> TURTLE
Turtle,
Paul isn't worth the effort. The only time I even see his babbling is when
somebody includes it in their posts.
I would like to see how he goes about setting up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @
90 - 95% RH. I have several customers that have coolers with those
particular requirements. OTH..... oh, never mind..... its just something
else that Paul doesn't know anything about.
Stormin Mormon
suction line inside the evaporator housing.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
Geoman1
Turtle, sorry buddy, but your post is way off base, I suggest you re-read
what Paul said because he was absolutly correct. I think you totally
misunderstood him.
First, I have a dozen defrost clocks in stock that I will be glad to sell to
you for, lets say, $400? Thats a deal if you are paying $500.
Also, Paul never said that that a cold control thermostat was a pressure
"fan" control, he was speaking of a low suction pressure controller. Your
the one who mentioned that it was a pressure switch, Paul was saying that
during defrost the fans would stay on which is correct. BTW, your wrong in
your post as this being a thermostat if indeed the switch is reading
pressure. If its reading pressure then its a PRESSURE switch and NOT a
thermostat. If the manufacturer calls it a thermostat they are wrong.
Are you sure that your 'cold control' is a pressure switch which reads
suction pressure and not a thermostat? If its a pressure type and this guy
is getting 34F then I'm sorry to inform you, your coil will have ice on it.
How do you get the air to become 34F unless you have a colder medium to
remove the heat and lower the temperature? You have posted in the past when
working on A/C units that you have a "15" or a "20" degree split, well, this
is true with refrigeration as well. To get a 34 degree box temp your coil is
going to be about 19F or lower, and at these temperatures you will have ice.
The problem comes when the box doesn't get warm enough to melt the ice
before the compressor turns on. This problem is controllable with a pressure
switch, with a thermostat it is controllable with a larger differential.
If it is a pressure control that is maintaining the on and off of this box
then it may be a defective control, or its out of adjustment. However, I
have seen many units requiring defrost clocks even with a 'cold control
thermostat'.
>
Barry
<jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote:
Why don't we try the easy stuff first. Check your door gaskets
for air infiltration. Is the compressor running continuously or most
of the time. No off cycle no defrost. Or, go buy a Johnson control
remote sensor, programmable stat (not expensive). Mount it outside
the box, it has an adjustable differential control. Nice digital
display and customers like to see the temp. Real good seller when I
was in business for my self.
Barry
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Turtle, sorry buddy, but your post is way off base, I suggest you re-read
>what Paul said because he was absolutly correct. I think you totally
>misunderstood him.
Rich - thanks, but you're wasting perfectly good air arguing
with the weasel and his hack buddy from MS.
>First, I have a dozen defrost clocks in stock that I will be glad to sell to
>you for, lets say, $400? Thats a deal if you are paying $500.
No shit :-) Of course, Weasel doesn't know what a 'truck
stock normal every day Paragon timer' **IS**, let alone how and when
and why to use one.. He thinks it's a special order 'high falutin'
college-boy special order fancy-pants part'.
BTW - Anyone wants to buy 'em from me, I bet I can even beat
Rich's price some :-)
>Also, Paul never said that that a cold control thermostat was a pressure
>"fan" control, he was speaking of a low suction pressure controller. Your
>the one who mentioned that it was a pressure switch, Paul was saying that
>during defrost the fans would stay on which is correct. BTW, your wrong in
>your post as this being a thermostat if indeed the switch is reading
>pressure. If its reading pressure then its a PRESSURE switch and NOT a
>thermostat. If the manufacturer calls it a thermostat they are wrong.
Weasels and hacks just call them 'cold controls', that way
they don't have to worry about nasty details like 'how they actually
work'.
>Are you sure that your 'cold control' is a pressure switch which reads
>suction pressure and not a thermostat? If its a pressure type and this guy
>is getting 34F then I'm sorry to inform you, your coil will have ice on it.
No shit.
Geoman1
"Barry" <b2b2ss@#earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e7tqk190t02ci082p...@4ax.com...
wow, all very good points that I failed to think of. Man, I'm
slipping............
Also, Turtle, I wasn't responding negatively to your post, so don't take it
that way. I honestly think you mis-read Paul's post and your post was way
off to what he was saying. Man, I wish you two would bury the
hatchets.......... I guess that's never going to happen.......... It
makes it difficult to post and not get into the middle. Heck, I like the
bottom!!! (Ok Mike, another reason to call me a pagan!)
Rich
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
You called 'bullshit' on his sorry weaseling hack ass when you
saw it, just like I do. You called him 'Liar' when you saw his lies,
just like I do. Don't apologise for it. We need MORE people to stand
up for what's right, not fewer.
> I honestly think you mis-read Paul's post and your post was way
>off to what he was saying. Man, I wish you two would bury the
>hatchets.......... I guess that's never going to happen..........
Not while he posts his hack thievery crap here. 'Cut out the
brand new factory system because he dosn't understand it and throw a
fan control in' ( which he also doesn't understand ) and such .....
>makes it difficult to post and not get into the middle. Heck, I like the
>bottom!!! (Ok Mike, another reason to call me a pagan!)
I WAS gonna call you somehting *else*, but I'll leave it to JR
to play THAT card !!! :-)
'Like the bottom' ????????
Geez, Rich .........
Power's Mechanical
xxxx
Sounds like its overcharged by the presures you listed. 205 @ 80F
ambient is to high. Take some refrigerant out until the head is
about150psi. Or you can block or stop the evap fans, slowley charge it
till the suction line starts to frost. Start the fans back up and it
should be close. Make sure the condenser is clean.
Make sure the door gaskets are ok. Take a dollar bill and close it in
the door. If it slides though easily your gaskets are letting in too
much outside air and the compressor is running to long causing the
icing.
Hot Shot (414) is a good choice for medium temp boxes but you need to
be careful you dont over charge it which is easy to do. Normally you
will see about a 10 degree differance between inlet and outlet air. At
the temps you are running there is no way you need a defrost clock.
Putting one on is masking the real problem and only a hack would
suggest such a thing.
Your bottom line two problems are over charged and too long of a run
cycle for whatever reason. Normally the run time is about 2/3 on 1/3
off over a 24 hr period.
And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
no matter what that other dill hole says.
Bubba
<cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Remove the bulb from the cold control off the back wall. Tiestrap it to the
>suction line inside the evaporator housing.
I have a better idea.
How about after removing that bulb off the back wall we "Tiestrap"
your ass to the suction line until you reach 20 degrees? Then after
you are all good and frozen solid, we take your fat frozen colored
blind ass out into the parking lot and we all get a free swing at you
with a large sledgehammer?
Now THAT'S my idea of a good time.
Bubba
Power's Mechanical
up for what's right, not fewer.
xxxx
If that was the case you would be getting reamed all day long asshole.
DiDo
to put my two sense in.
First it does not matter what type system (box, cooler is)
refrigeration is refrigeration.
I do not know where are you taking readings but your
bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.
As for freezing up? access or the (use of cooler)must be
taken in consideration gasket around the door
ambient humidity on the sight ETC.
If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
degrees you compressor should be turn off.
There is advantage and disadvantage to this set up because
if cooler happen to be in large use temperature will start
to go up. question is with which one you customer can live with
one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator
Note: you can use both switch in series for control
on some conditions it may even work better.
I say Good luck from Dido
"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
TURTLE
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kIWdneDgaZo...@comcast.com...
This is Turtle.
i just can't believe Pie Face is tring to tell Freezer jockey how things work
and does not have a clue as to what or how they are set up. Shut Up Billy Bob
you still don't know shit ! You know i think it is one of those cats pie faces
has , that is telling him about how to work on the reach in boxes. now it could
be Billy bob calling him or e-mailing him and tring to call the shots from
Sumberville.
That poor Devil Paul tring to talk the Walk and never has walk the walk.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message news:4ImdnZD3PJ6...@adelphia.com...
Snip info
This is Turtle.
Let me inlighten you about a true COLD CONTROL THERMOSTAT. The True Cold Control
has a set point of 18ºF to 30ºF and then has a automatic set point of cut back
in at 39ºF. No matter where you set the thermostat from 18ºF to 30ºF at cut out
point , it will always get back to 39ºF before hitting cut back in temperature.
The Service man or Rookie of today will usely be sticking in clocks with the
coil to read the temperature of the coil and will not let it freeze up by going
back to 39ºF with every cycle. This cold control thermostat would replace
clocks, heaters or anything on reach in coolers but now a days they want to
complicate the reach in boxes with all sorts of electric devices as paul was
speaking about. Paul was speaking of a clock , time out devices , and everything
when the TRUE COLD CONTROL will take care of it and add nothing to it.
now you are very much wrong about Paul calling a pressure control the same thing
as a Layman terms ''cold control' . I will after this post single out his
quote for you to read where he referres to a pressure controller as a cold
control. He called a pressure controller a cold Control in his own words. it
will follow in another post behind this one. read it slow and you will see.
TURTLE
TURTLE
<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:7rtqk1d8frel50rhk...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
your dancing good here but you can't bullshit your way out of this LIE.
Oh Pie Face , You say you would rewire a 3 door reach in cooler add a Paragon
timer at about $100.00+ , 3 Hour Labor, and as you say cost $400.00 to $500.00
which all you have to do it put the correct cold control back on it for $34.00.
You like them clocks don't you.
TURTLE
TURTLE
>>>> If you had ever worked on one, you would know that you can ice
>>>> up EASILY with a pressure cycle control ( layman's term - 'cold
>>>> control' ). Try maintaining a 34 F box and see what happens.
>>>>
This is Turtle
Second Reply with PIE FACE's Blunder in it.
Pressure Cycle Control [ layman's terms - ' cold control' ]
Is a Pressure Cycle Controller a cold control ?
TURTLE
geoman jr
"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message
>
> "Barry" <b2b2ss@#earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e7tqk190t02ci082p...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
>> <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>>>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
>>>Low
>>>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>>>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>>>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then
>>>builds
>>>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>>>suggestions?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why don't we try the easy stuff first. Check your door gaskets
>> for air infiltration. Is the compressor running continuously or most
>> of the time. No off cycle no defrost. Or, go buy a Johnson control
>> remote sensor, programmable stat (not expensive). Mount it outside
>> the box, it has an adjustable differential control. Nice digital
>> display and customers like to see the temp. Real good seller when I
>> was in business for my self.
>>
>> Barry
>
> wow, all very good points that I failed to think of. Man, I'm
> slipping............
>
place. This unit probably had less than two pounds of gas in it. Was it
really worth the hassle and have you condemned this compresser to an early
death?? There's still R-12 around- sometimes you gotta bite the bullet, fix
whatever caused the original problem ( why it was converted) clean the
system up, recharge it and walk away. Cap tubes can be a bitch with the
newer refrigerants. Do you want the headaches??? Just my opinion :-)
TURTLE
"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message news:LrWdneqXqs4...@adelphia.com...
>
This is Turtle.
if you really read what Pie Face writes it is just out of a book somewhere and
does not go together. He calls a Pressure cycle controller a cold control and
you believe it , WOW. If i was off here please explain to me what the words i
just wrote mean other than paul's bullshit.
Look Rich , i don't take any offence from you the way you talk but you are
straight forward and don't try to bullshit your way out a lie like paul does. i
welcome any respectiable correction that is really trueful and not just flaming
me. Paul is a bullshitter that does not like anybody that does not let him tell
bullshit like he wants to and says something about it which he does not like to
be corrected for being wrong. All you have to do is correct him one time and
your gone or he will flame you till your gone. Pie Face must be a fool thinking
i'm going somewhere with his little flame he can put out by him and his 3
asshole buddys.
Check up what a True Cold Control is used on old refrigerators with freezer box
inside the cooler area. these are a example of a true cold control.
TURTLE
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Since you already have dozens of replays I Have decided
>to put my two sense in.
>First it does not matter what type system (box, cooler is)
>refrigeration is refrigeration.
>I do not know where are you taking readings but your
>bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
>the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.
Not for refrigeration near a satisfied box, moron. Not even
close.
>As for freezing up? access or the (use of cooler)must be
>taken in consideration gasket around the door
>ambient humidity on the sight ETC.
>If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
>or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
>on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
>frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
>Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
>suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
>degrees you compressor should be turn off.
Like Weasel and his hack butt-buddy from MS, you've obviously
never done refrigeration, so STFU.
Asshole, how do you think you're going to going to drive a box
to 35 if you don't let your coil get below 32 ?????
>There is advantage and disadvantage to this set up because
>if cooler happen to be in large use temperature will start
>to go up. question is with which one you customer can live with
>one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
>with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
>of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator
And you box will be lucky to see 45 F.
>Note: you can use both switch in series for control
>on some conditions it may even work better.
>I say Good luck from Dido
>
>
>
>"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
>news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has been
>> converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
>> pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds up
>> ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>> suggestions?
>>
>
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
~^Johnny^~
wrote:
> how do you think you're going to going to drive a box
>to 35 if you don't let your coil get below 32 ?????
Oh, ho, ho, it's magic, you know...
live and believe it's not so.
-Pilot
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
Bill
wrote:
> If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
> or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
> on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
> frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
> Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
> suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
> degrees you compressor should be turn off.
> There is advantage and disadvantage to this set up because
> if cooler happen to be in large use temperature will start
> to go up. question is with which one you customer can live with
> one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
> with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
> of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator
> Note: you can use both switch in series for control
> on some conditions it may even work better.
> I say Good luck from Dido
I suggest you take some RSES courses.
--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
Bill
"Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds like its overcharged by the presures you listed. 205 @ 80F
> ambient is to high. Take some refrigerant out until the head is
> about150psi. Or you can block or stop the evap fans, slowley charge it
> till the suction line starts to frost. Start the fans back up and it
> should be close. Make sure the condenser is clean.
>
> Make sure the door gaskets are ok. Take a dollar bill and close it in
> the door. If it slides though easily your gaskets are letting in too
> much outside air and the compressor is running to long causing the
> icing.
>
> Hot Shot (414) is a good choice for medium temp boxes but you need to
> be careful you dont over charge it which is easy to do. Normally you
> will see about a 10 degree differance between inlet and outlet air. At
> the temps you are running there is no way you need a defrost clock.
> Putting one on is masking the real problem and only a hack would
> suggest such a thing.
>
> Your bottom line two problems are over charged and too long of a run
> cycle for whatever reason. Normally the run time is about 2/3 on 1/3
> off over a 24 hr period.
>
> And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
> no matter what that other dill hole says.
No wonder the union doesn't do commercial refrigeration. LOL
Bill
"Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
That why you're always on your knee's mikey?
Bill
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > This is Turtle
> >
> > Pie Face your guessing again here. These 3 door coolers like he is
> > describing are usely controlled by cold control thermostat. If you knew
> > what they was controlled by you could speak on the subject, but as you
> > just guessing on these reach in coolers you just bullshitting again. These
> > Reach in coolers are controlled by a cold control thermostat and does not
> > have a defrost timer or defrost system. Steve was tring to get at the
> > system messing up and rule out the cold control thermostat. if you want me
> > to explain the cold control thermostat to you just ask. Now i wish you
> > would stop trouble shooting these type boxes when you don't have a clue.
> >
> > TURTLE
>
> In a private e-mail, the OP said that the cooler only has an air temp type
> stat and cap tubes. I recommended that he install a cold control. For the
> benifit of Paul and others, a cold control is a pressure switch that
> maintains temp by cycling on suction pressure, not air temperature. When
> cycling on suction pressure with a cold control, and the superheat is
> correct, a reach-in cooler will not normally ice up.
Not on a cap tube system. As soon as it shuts off the pressures equalize
and kicks it right back on.
You, weasel and mikey are entertaining. Should be even funnier watching
you tap dance out of this one.
~^Johnny^~
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:09:36 -0400, "geoman jr" <mwa...@comcast.net>
wrote:
>>>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>>>>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
>>>>Low
>>>>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>>>>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>>>>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then
>>>>builds
>>>>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>>>>suggestions?
You did charge LIQUID into the system, and not GAS, I hope?
What is weird, is, an overcharge shouldn't cause iceing.
But the temperature glide of a zeotropic blend can be quite befuddling
at times.
30 lb suction is too high for 414b for low temp, and could be about
right for med temp continuous run systems. But systems vary. In any
event, your coil is =probably= overfeeding. Take out some of the
refrigerant... from the DRYER TAP or LIQUID LINE.
NOTE: With R414b, always charge and discharge LIQUID, NEVER with
GAS. Otherwise, you run the risk of fractionation, which not only
will require an evacuation and recharge of the affected system, but
in extreme cases, can spoil your whole 25 lb can! You can wind up
with mostly all R22 in your system, and less than 50% R22 in the can.
This is not good! R22 will ice up at 30 pounds suction, and
superheat will be real low. Such is fractionation.
Use a charging glass, if possible. Yes, you can still get them. :-)
By volume, it's close enough to R12 on the scale to be within a half
an ounce at one pound, plus 17%. If you weigh it in, then you will
likely be 17% ocvercharged!!! Use the glass, not the scale, and use
the R12 markings on the glass. Start with a slight undercharge, and
adjust (add refrigerant if necessary) after a day or so.
>>> Why don't we try the easy stuff first. Check your door gaskets
>>> for air infiltration. Is the compressor running continuously or most
>>> of the time. No off cycle no defrost. Or, go buy a Johnson control
>>> remote sensor, programmable stat (not expensive). Mount it outside
>>> the box, it has an adjustable differential control. Nice digital
>>> display and customers like to see the temp. Real good seller when I
>>> was in business for my self.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>
>> wow, all very good points that I failed to think of. Man, I'm
>> slipping............
>>
> Gee if you really want to make it easy why the fuck convert it in the first
>place. This unit probably had less than two pounds of gas in it. Was it
>really worth the hassle and have you condemned this compresser to an early
>death?? There's still R-12 around-
R414b (aka "Hotshot") is a blend specifically designed as an R12
replacement. It works great in low temp /med temp R12 boxes.
I've used Hotshot in quite a few compressor swaps in domestic boxes ,
and have never had one come back yet.
One caveat is, Hotshot is a blend, as it is nowhere near azetropic,
and so it is very easy to accidentally overcharge with it, if using
pressure/superheat as a guide during charging.
Superheat is meaningless in charging a fixed cap tube system, anyway,
until temps have stabilized, which can take anywhere from 8 to 24
hours, or maybe longer, so it should be used for *initial charging*
with many blends such as Hotshot.
I usually kill the evap fan and watch the frost pattern, then start
the fan, and slowly add a little more Hotshot if needed.
Watch the glass. If you have added 3 lbs to a 2 lb system, and still
have crazy temps/pressures, well... you shouldn't have gone that far
in the first place.
>sometimes you gotta bite the bullet, fix
>whatever caused the original problem ( why it was converted) clean the
>system up, recharge it and walk away.
Bad compressor, probably?
>Cap tubes can be a bitch with the
>newer refrigerants.
I agree.
Sometimes it's more of a bitch to deal with than doing a TXV
conversion. But that's a catch-22 in and of itself, when dealing
with zeotropic blends... :-)
>Do you want the headaches??? Just my opinion :-)
If we don't LOVE a challenge, then perhaps we shouldn't be doing
refrigration (especially field retrofitting). <g>
IHTH.
Bill
weasel a Low Pressure Control can and is used as a temperature control.
But not on cap-tube systems.
Maybe you should read up on where cap-tubes equalize pressure on the off
cycle.
Ranco has hundreds of "cold controls". Maybe you should let them know
how they all work.
Be sure to tell them you have 45+ years in the trade.
Bill
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:41:43 -0400, "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote:
>
> >Turtle, sorry buddy, but your post is way off base, I suggest you re-read
> >what Paul said because he was absolutly correct. I think you totally
> >misunderstood him.
>
> Rich - thanks, but you're wasting perfectly good air arguing
> with the weasel and his hack buddy from MS.
>
> >First, I have a dozen defrost clocks in stock that I will be glad to sell to
> >you for, lets say, $400? Thats a deal if you are paying $500.
>
> No shit :-) Of course, Weasel doesn't know what a 'truck
> stock normal every day Paragon timer' **IS**, let alone how and when
> and why to use one.. He thinks it's a special order 'high falutin'
> college-boy special order fancy-pants part'.
>
> BTW - Anyone wants to buy 'em from me, I bet I can even beat
> Rich's price some :-)
I suggest Grasslin timers and I think I could beat your price by a
dollar or two. :-)
I think you have to rub weasel's nose in the basics more. Even
considering he's a moron. He just don't get it.
Noon posted the OP had a cap-tube system and still they all rattled on.
Bill
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Turtle,
>
> Paul isn't worth the effort. The only time I even see his babbling is when
> somebody includes it in their posts.
> I would like to see how he goes about setting up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @
> 90 - 95% RH. I have several customers that have coolers with those
> particular requirements. OTH..... oh, never mind..... its just something
> else that Paul doesn't know anything about.
Like a LPC on a cap-tube system? Explain how that works noonie.
Then you can explain how to set up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @ 90 - 95%
RH.
You can barely handle residential noonie, so this should be good.
Use all the blank space below here that you need.
~^Johnny^~
On 12 Oct 2005 16:09:33 -0700, "Power's Mechanical"
<push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that
>has
>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
> Low
>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then
>builds
>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have
>any
>suggestions?
>
>xxxx
>
>Sounds like its overcharged by the presures you listed.
I concur. Else, it is fractionated, which throws extra R22 into the
system.
>205 @ 80F
>ambient is to high. Take some refrigerant out until the head is
>about150psi. Or you can block or stop the evap fans, slowley charge it
>till the suction line starts to frost. Start the fans back up and it
>should be close. Make sure the condenser is clean.
Damn! I forgot the condenser! :-)
>Make sure the door gaskets are ok. Take a dollar bill and close it in
>the door. If it slides though easily your gaskets are letting in too
>much outside air and the compressor is running to long causing the
>icing.
Doubtful, but still possible.
>
>Hot Shot (414) is a good choice for medium temp boxes but you need to
>be careful you dont over charge it which is easy to do. Normally you
>will see about a 10 degree differance between inlet and outlet air. At
>the temps you are running there is no way you need a defrost clock.
Yep.
>Putting one on is masking the real problem and only a hack would
>suggest such a thing.
Icing up at 30 lbs gage on suction tells me the charge is fractionated
(too much R22). Hotshot is only supposed to be 50% R22.
>Your bottom line two problems are over charged and too long of a run
>cycle for whatever reason. Normally the run time is about 2/3 on 1/3
>off over a 24 hr period.
Yes.
>And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
>no matter what that other dill hole says.
Absolutely.
It is either overcharged, fractionated, or both.
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts. They will explain what
can't be done and why. Then do it. - Robert Heinlein
~~~~~~~~
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> i just can't believe Pie Face is tring to tell Freezer jockey how things work
> and does not have a clue as to what or how they are set up. Shut Up Billy Bob
> you still don't know shit ! You know i think it is one of those cats pie
> faces
> has , that is telling him about how to work on the reach in boxes. now it
> could
> be Billy bob calling him or e-mailing him and tring to call the shots from
> Sumberville.
>
> That poor Devil Paul tring to talk the Walk and never has walk the walk.
weasel you're a pathetic old hack. You aren't even faintly amusing.
Paul will always run circles around your ignorant ass weasel because you
are a hack.
Leave it alone weasel. You said you aren't willing to learn and that you
are going to retire.
Everytime you post you show your stupidity. Quit while you're behind
hack boi.
Bill
~^Johnny^~ <nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
>no matter what that other dill hole says.
> Absolutely.
>
> It is either overcharged, fractionated, or both.
Cap tube system. Think about it.
~^Johnny^~
This is John
Hey, Terry, what has all your BS got to do with the REAL problem?
The OP has a specific scenario, which you fail to address.
I've seen you give intelligent answers before, but they have been few
and far between, and this isn't one of them.
You seem to be too busy arguing semantics, and flaming, and
generally being a smartass.
Have you been drinking again?
JOHN
Bill
> >no matter what that other dill hole says.
>
> Absolutely.
Cap tube system. Think about it.
> It is either overcharged, fractionated, or both.
Fractionation almost never occurs in a running system. That's old info.
ICOR has a free seminar and might have one in your area. Check their
website calendar.
Some of the recent information that's available about the newer
refrigerants and oils is worth looking into.
ICOR is coming here next week.
The RSES convention had multiple speakers that addressed the various
issues. Sporlan, ICOR, Zero Zone and National Refrigerants.
The information was excellent!
~^Johnny^~
>Fractionation almost never occurs in a running system. That's old info.
I'm talking about charging, not running with leaks.
That's another story. :-)
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
~~~~~~~~
The keeper at the gate is blind
so you'd better be prepared to pay
-Steve Earle
~~~~~~~~
Bill
~^Johnny^~ <nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:31:35 -0400, Bill <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote:
>
> >Fractionation almost never occurs in a running system. That's old info.
>
> I'm talking about charging, not running with leaks.
> That's another story. :-)
True. :-)
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>Icing up at 30 lbs gage on suction tells me the charge is fractionated
>(too much R22). Hotshot is only supposed to be 50% R22.
Funny, the chart I looked it up on told me that was 20 degrees
SST for this refrigerant. Last I heard, you get ice below 32.
~^Johnny^~
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:57:18 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
><nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>
>>Icing up at 30 lbs gage on suction tells me the charge is fractionated
>>(too much R22). Hotshot is only supposed to be 50% R22.
>
> Funny, the chart I looked it up on told me that was 20 degrees
>SST for this refrigerant. Last I heard, you get ice below 32.
OK, that's SST. But he's running at 30 PSIG, and still icing up.
And is he at sea level? <g>
All joking aside:
Fractionation. Improper charging procedures.
Newly repaired system. No fucking run-time
leaks in the equation!
OK, I could be wrong.
It wouldn't be the first time.
Never mind what Mac Davis said...
Bill
"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote:
> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
> been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
> pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
> up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
> suggestions?
Post the raw numbers. Liquid line etc. Like the air in and out of
condenser? Need the full list of numbers.
How long ago was the conversion?
geoman jr
"~^Johnny^~" <nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote in message
news:mhnrk1hee4de1cvqr...@4ax.com...
the manufacturer will tell you not to fuck with it.The new blends will often
act like a cleaner in the system, cause havoc with already iffy cap tubes,
and guess where else all this scavenged crap is going to end up :-))
geoman jr
"geoman jr" <mwa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:SNOdnYVCetpKo9Pe...@comcast.com...
help in this situation. It will force an off cycle defrost and will not let
the compresser start untill the coil is free of ice ( usually :-) )
Jerry Furman
have learned a little about refrigeration and a lot about human nature. Some
more info. The box is a randell sandwich prep table. It has a cap tube. I
did charge liquid. I am in Kansas and humidity is very high.
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434dfcf8$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
This is Turtle.
if you knew what was going on you would know what a cold control was and a
pressure controller was and like you and Pie Face don't know the difference.
Also it would take a dumby like Paul to think of putting a pressure controller
on a cap tube for it would be out of the question before you got it out of the
box.
You and the fellow on the end of your dick needs to call Ranco and Johnson
Control and ask them what a cold Control is and what a pressure controller is.
They are not the same as you and your butt buddy thinks. Are you still coming
over this friday to Pauls house to butt fuck him again. he needs it this week
with no sales of the software and being bitched at on the internet.
There is one point before before , I let a fool go here ! You claim to be a
freezer box jockey but you will never get openly get into a discussion of the
operation of the stuff and discuss trouble shooting types. You alway put people
down for what you think is not right but never explain anything. Are you really
in the HVAC or R business at all ? Just wonder !
TURTLE
Geoman1
Mark, the problem with this is many don't know how to set that scenario up
:-) If they think the coil doesn't go below freezing they will soon learn
by using this method ! :-)
Jabs
Your probably right that the superheat is too low and needs to adjust the
TXV, but I also think he may need to raise the cut-in setting on the his Low
Pressure Control and/or install an off-cycle timer to help assure a complete
off-cycle air-defrost. Also, I can tell that you've never used 414B in a
walk-in cooler because I have found that it performs much better than MP39 &
409A. BTW I used MP39 & 409A for years until I ran into 414B.
Jabs
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ruCdnZRckbV...@comcast.com...
> question.... why R-414b?? unless thats all you had.... Personally I like
> to use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
> To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up
> to 5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
> is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
> the cooler being used for??
> While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??
>
> "Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
> news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
Jabs
instead:
If it has a cap-tube as a metering-device, and the superheat is only 1蝶F
the system is probably overcharged with refrigerant. Also, the frost and
ice build-up could probably be solved by installing a "constant cut-in"
thermostat (Ranco #A12-700) with the sensing element inserted into the
evaporator coil. It will sense the evaporator temperature and will not
cycle the compressor back on until the evaporator temperature rises up to
37慚...... regardless of the setting of the thermostat. This assures the
coil temperature raises up to 37慚 before the compressor can cycle back on
(regardless if the setting of the thermostat, whether minimum or maximum
setting) it *constantly* cuts-in at 37慚. Remember, the sensor needs to be
inserted into the evaporator coil to sense the coil temperature.
Jabs
"Jabs" <NoS...@NoSpam.Com> wrote in message
news:K_w3f.459$Hs....@tornado.socal.rr.com...
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Steve,
>Your probably right that the superheat is too low and needs to adjust the
>TXV,
On this CAP TUBE SYSTEM ?????
> but I also think he may need to raise the cut-in setting on the his Low
>Pressure Control and/or install an off-cycle timer to help assure a complete
>off-cycle air-defrost.
My god, jabski, from the depths of your eternal despair, you
finally saw the light and agreed with me !!!! :-)
CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!
> Also, I can tell that you've never used 414B in a
>walk-in cooler because I have found that it performs much better than MP39 &
>409A. BTW I used MP39 & 409A for years until I ran into 414B.
>
>Jabs
>
>
>
>"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:ruCdnZRckbV...@comcast.com...
>> question.... why R-414b?? unless thats all you had.... Personally I like
>> to use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
>> To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up
>> to 5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
>> is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
>> the cooler being used for??
>> While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??
>>
>> "Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
>> news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>>> been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
>>> Low pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>>> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>>> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then
>>> builds up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone
>>> have any suggestions?
>>>
>>
>>
>
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
Stormin Mormon
screwed to the back wall. Try my advice -- you might just find it works.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11ksm71...@corp.supernews.com...
Stormin Mormon
What have you done to clean the condensor? That won't help with freezing,
but it will save the customer electricity.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
PrecisionMachinisT
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_Nx3f.43223$K91....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> No one has asked -- is it a captube system, or TXV?
>
Most everyone here except for you appears to already realize the depth of
your ignorance is bottomless......otherwise, why you would set about proving
this on a daily basis is completely beyond me.
>
> What have you done to clean the condensor? That won't help with freezing,
> but it will save the customer electricity.
>
I know you wanna suggest sanding it down and then spraying acid all over
it--go ahead....might as well.....resistance is futile...
<shrug>
--
SVL
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<precision...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:_Nx3f.43223$K91....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
>>
>> No one has asked -- is it a captube system, or TXV?
>>
>
>Most everyone here except for you appears to already realize the depth of
>your ignorance is bottomless......otherwise, why you would set about proving
>this on a daily basis is completely beyond me.
Gives him something to do, keeps him off the streets -
overall, a benefit to society.
>
>>
>> What have you done to clean the condensor? That won't help with freezing,
>> but it will save the customer electricity.
>>
>
>
>I know you wanna suggest sanding it down and then spraying acid all over
>it--go ahead....might as well.....resistance is futile...
>
><shrug>
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
Power's Mechanical
>I do not know where are you taking readings but your
>bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
>the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.
Not for refrigeration near a satisfied box, moron. Not even
close.
xxxx
Bullshit asshole. A txv will have a steady 10 degrees all thought the
run cycle Be specific when you try to show how much you think you
know.
Power's Mechanical
xxxx
Thats what you think. I could run circles around your lame ass any day
of the week fuck face.
Power's Mechanical
--
xxxx
Look willie junior if you got something to say why dont you drag your
ass up here and say it in person you little chicken shit cunt.
Bill
"Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Putting LPC's on cap-tube systems? lol. Go back to school idiot.
If not for your steward duties you would be warming the bench mikey.
Bill
"Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
FOD mikey. You are a POS and not worth anybody's time.
Bill
> pressure controller was and like you and Pie Face don't know the difference.
> There is one point before before , I let a fool go here ! You claim to be a
> freezer box jockey but you will never get openly get into a discussion of the
> operation of the stuff and discuss trouble shooting types. You alway put
> people
> down for what you think is not right but never explain anything. Are you
> really
> in the HVAC or R business at all ? Just wonder !
Isn't my job to train your ignorant ass weasel. You're too cheap and too
stupid to learn so why waste my breath.
You said you are content to be a hack. So be it.
I learned there are two rules in life.
Rule #1: Don't tell people everything you know.
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
What if Rule # 1 **IS** all someone knows ????
Bill
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> >I learned there are two rules in life.
> >Rule #1: Don't tell people everything you know.
>
> What if Rule # 1 **IS** all someone knows ????
You wind up in a Louisiana swamp hacking shit up.
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434e05d9$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <RHj3f.6810$Ls....@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,>> i just can't believe Pie Face is tring to tell Freezer jockey how things work
>> and does not have a clue as to what or how they are set up. Shut Up Billy Bob
>> you still don't know shit ! You know i think it is one of those cats pie
>> faces
>> has , that is telling him about how to work on the reach in boxes. now it
>> could
>> be Billy bob calling him or e-mailing him and tring to call the shots from
>> Sumberville.
>>
>> That poor Devil Paul tring to talk the Walk and never has walk the walk.
>
> weasel you're a pathetic old hack. You aren't even faintly amusing.
>
> Paul will always run circles around your ignorant ass weasel because you
> are a hack.
Snip the Bullshit.
This is Turtle.
I can see where you will stand up for pie face because he being your lover. i
think you should go back to women and see for it is much better in respect when
it is known. But if not the best of wishes to the two of you.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434e0267$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <kIWdneDgaZo...@comcast.com>,
> "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Turtle,
>>
>> Paul isn't worth the effort. The only time I even see his babbling is when
>> somebody includes it in their posts.
>> I would like to see how he goes about setting up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @
>> 90 - 95% RH. I have several customers that have coolers with those
>> particular requirements. OTH..... oh, never mind..... its just something
>> else that Paul doesn't know anything about.
>
> Like a LPC on a cap-tube system? Explain how that works noonie.
>
> Then you can explain how to set up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @ 90 - 95%
> RH.
>
> You can barely handle residential noonie, so this should be good.
>
> Use all the blank space below here that you need.
>
This is Turtle.
what you don't know about --- Don't try to explain it to others.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434ede89$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <vantk1p2lv26d56c0...@4ax.com>,
> ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>> >I learned there are two rules in life.
>> >Rule #1: Don't tell people everything you know.
>>
>> What if Rule # 1 **IS** all someone knows ????
>
> You wind up in a Louisiana swamp hacking shit up.
>
This is Turtle.
You have to know how it should be done correctly before you can know what a hack
job it. So that leaves you out.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434df988$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <VvCdnc1ZxYK...@comcast.com>,
> "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> > This is Turtle
>> >
>> > Pie Face your guessing again here. These 3 door coolers like he is
>> > describing are usely controlled by cold control thermostat. If you knew
>> > what they was controlled by you could speak on the subject, but as you
>> > just guessing on these reach in coolers you just bullshitting again. These
>> > Reach in coolers are controlled by a cold control thermostat and does not
>> > have a defrost timer or defrost system. Steve was tring to get at the
>> > system messing up and rule out the cold control thermostat. if you want me
>> > to explain the cold control thermostat to you just ask. Now i wish you
>> > would stop trouble shooting these type boxes when you don't have a clue.
>> >
>> > TURTLE
>>
>> In a private e-mail, the OP said that the cooler only has an air temp type
>> stat and cap tubes. I recommended that he install a cold control. For the
>> benifit of Paul and others, a cold control is a pressure switch that
>> maintains temp by cycling on suction pressure, not air temperature. When
>> cycling on suction pressure with a cold control, and the superheat is
>> correct, a reach-in cooler will not normally ice up.
>
> Not on a cap tube system. As soon as it shuts off the pressures equalize
> and kicks it right back on.
>
> You, weasel and mikey are entertaining. Should be even funnier watching
> you tap dance out of this one.
>
this is Turtle.
No Billy Bob ,I'm not explaining to you how to work on this type of equipment
for you could not do it right if I told you so.
TURTLE
TURTLE
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:11:16 -0500, "TURTLE"
> <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message news:LrWdneqXqs4...@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Barry" <b2b2ss@#earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:e7tqk190t02ci082p...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
>>>> <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>>>>>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
>>>>>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>>>>>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>>>>>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
>>>>>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>>>>>suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for air infiltration. Is the compressor running continuously or most
>>>> of the time. No off cycle no defrost. Or, go buy a Johnson control
>>>> remote sensor, programmable stat (not expensive). Mount it outside
>>>> the box, it has an adjustable differential control. Nice digital
>>>> display and customers like to see the temp. Real good seller when I
>>>> was in business for my self.
>>>>
>>>> Barry
>>>
>>> wow, all very good points that I failed to think of. Man, I'm
>>> slipping............
>>>
>>> that way. I honestly think you mis-read Paul's post and your post was way
>>> off
>>> to what he was saying. Man, I wish you two would bury the hatchets..........
>>> I guess that's never going to happen.......... It makes it difficult to
>>> post
>>> and not get into the middle. Heck, I like the bottom!!! (Ok Mike, another
>>> reason to call me a pagan!)
>>>
>>> Rich
>>
>>This is Turtle.
>>
>>if you really read what Pie Face writes it is just out of a book somewhere and
>>does not go together. He calls a Pressure cycle controller a cold control and
>>you believe it , WOW. If i was off here please explain to me what the words i
>>just wrote mean other than paul's bullshit.
>>
>>Look Rich , i don't take any offence from you the way you talk but you are
>>straight forward and don't try to bullshit your way out a lie like paul does.
>>i
>>welcome any respectiable correction that is really trueful and not just
>>flaming
>>me. Paul is a bullshitter that does not like anybody that does not let him
>>tell
>>bullshit like he wants to and says something about it which he does not like
>>to
>>be corrected for being wrong. All you have to do is correct him one time and
>>your gone or he will flame you till your gone. Pie Face must be a fool
>>thinking
>>i'm going somewhere with his little flame he can put out by him and his 3
>>asshole buddys.
>>
>>Check up what a True Cold Control is used on old refrigerators with freezer
>>box
>>inside the cooler area. these are a example of a true cold control.
>>
>>TURTLE
>>
>
> This is John
>
> Hey, Terry, what has all your BS got to do with the REAL problem?
> The OP has a specific scenario, which you fail to address.
>
> I've seen you give intelligent answers before, but they have been few
> and far between, and this isn't one of them.
>
> You seem to be too busy arguing semantics, and flaming, and
> generally being a smartass.
>
> Have you been drinking again?
>
>
> JOHN
This is Turtle.
So if you can figure out what his problem is please tell it to use. Everything I
have heard here is guesses and i don't like guessing .
OH , when a few asshole of the group claim fame and start flaming i will flame
back. One More I have never seen you say a work back to Paul or Billy bob when
they flame or are you scared of the PBBS club ?
TURTLE
Cooltemp Industries
TURTLE wrote:
> I can see where you will stand up for pie face because he being your lover. i
> think you should go back to women blah, blah, blah............
So what does this have to do with the fact that you've been exposed as a
hack?
Try to stay on topic, instead of trying to divert people's attention
away from your incompetence by throwing insults at others.
It isn't working.
Cooltemp Industries
TURTLE wrote:
> what you don't know about --- Don't try to explain it to others.
Funny how the best advice you give is really meant for yourself, Turtle.
Cooltemp Industries
TURTLE wrote:
> You have to know how it should be done correctly before you can know what a hack
> job it. So that leaves you out.
And even MORE advice meant for the author.
Cooltemp Industries
TURTLE wrote:
> No Billy Bob ,I'm not explaining to you how to work on this type of equipment
> for you could not do it right if I told you so.
Once again, trying to divert attention away from your incompetence.
You just repeated what Bill said to you.
Try to come up with something original.
Cooltemp Industries
"~^Johnny^~" wrote
>>Hey, Terry, what has all your BS got to do with the REAL problem?
>>The OP has a specific scenario, which you fail to address.
That's all he EVER does. Smoke and mirrors.
The reason he spews garbage is because he doesn't know the answers.
No secret there.
TURTLE
"Cooltemp Industries" <gbrod...@sunlife.com> wrote in message
news:434F028A...@sunlife.com...
This is Turtle.
Now Who's Book did you judge the Word Hack being in my abilitys ?
Do you feel that it is OK for Pie Face and Billy Bob to flame me and i not say
anything ?
Earth to CoolTurd , if you was in the know , hacks rarely post in newsgroups for
they are out making money chopping up equipment to make a living and would never
take their time up helping people on these newsgroups. now here is one , Pie
Face and Steve Sea Breezer are salesmen of parts / software over the internet
and if they did not sell stuff here they would not be here calling people hacks
who really work in this business everyday and some saleman selling stuff over
the internet. Then Turtle comes along and says hey stop the bullshitting of
everybody about how the business is run and then you get the PBS club tring to
get rid of anybody who don't go along with the selling game over the internet.
If Pie Face would loose his grip on the alt.hvac for some reason, he could
forget about the software sales business by having no credits to his ability.
Hummmmm , I think you need your name put up in the lights by being put in the
flame club of now PBSC.
CoolTurd , Your moving up in the world !
TURTLE
TURTLE
>
>
> TURTLE wrote:
>
>
>> what you don't know about --- Don't try to explain it to others.
>
> Funny how the best advice you give is really meant for yourself, Turtle.
>
This is Turtle.
When it applies I do it ! You should do the same !
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Hummm , Still did not figure out what i said !
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
When you get good enough you can start by answering this posters question which
i saw you pass by it and not answer it. Don't worry about my abilitys when you
can't answer the question ask and expect me to answer them for you. You are fun
for you are kind of stupid with you replys. i like you !
TURTLE
TURTLE
this is Turtle.
No Devertion here but just stating facts ! If I wanted to Flame or start flame I
would say what you said !!!!!
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434ed840$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <1129236404.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That why you're always on your knee's mikey?
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> xxxx
>>
>> Look willie junior if you got something to say why dont you drag your
>> ass up here and say it in person you little chicken shit cunt.
>
> FOD mikey. You are a POS and not worth anybody's time.
>
This is Tuirtle.
Hey billy Bob , hold the Key board up where he can't see your face for the fear
is dripping off you now.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434ed7ef$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <1129236274....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No wonder the union doesn't do commercial refrigeration. LOL
>>
>>
>> xxxx
>>
>> Thats what you think. I could run circles around your lame ass any day
>> of the week fuck face.
>
> Putting LPC's on cap-tube systems? lol. Go back to school idiot.
>
Snip
This is Turtle.
That was your butt buddy who suggested the LPC on a cap tube system? Then on top
of that called a pressure controller a cold control. and you like that for a
sleeping partner !
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434e06f1$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <eq0sk15lsv6f5o875...@4ax.com>,
> ~^Johnny^~ <nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>>And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
>>no matter what that other dill hole says.
>> Absolutely.
>>
>> It is either overcharged, fractionated, or both.
>
> Cap tube system. Think about it.
>
This is Turtle.
Yes i thought about it and your still full of shit !
Watch out listening to pie face tells you for he will get you in trouble.
TURTLE
TURTLE
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:52:18 GMT, ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:57:18 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
>><nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Icing up at 30 lbs gage on suction tells me the charge is fractionated
>>>(too much R22). Hotshot is only supposed to be 50% R22.
>>
>> Funny, the chart I looked it up on told me that was 20 degrees
>>SST for this refrigerant. Last I heard, you get ice below 32.
>
> OK, that's SST. But he's running at 30 PSIG, and still icing up.
> And is he at sea level? <g>
>
>
>
> All joking aside:
>
> Fractionation. Improper charging procedures.
> Newly repaired system. No fucking run-time
> leaks in the equation!
>
> OK, I could be wrong.
> It wouldn't be the first time.
>
>
>
> Never mind what Mac Davis said...
This is Turtle.
Don't worry about what Paul says for he is the arm chair freezer jockey and does
not work on them but just dreams about them. He think any system that goes below
freezing is suppose to freeze up with no other result. He still does not know
about a cold control which will hold the box above freezing when it will stay
off till the box comes back up to 39ºF and then go back below freezing. I wish
someone would take him out on a job and he would not have to prove so much to
everybody. Ok Piew Fave Now Prove something now or here !
TURTLE
TURTLE
<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:2tkrk15fcelcb7dgf...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:01:31 GMT, "DiDo" <ase...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Since you already have dozens of replays I Have decided
>>to put my two sense in.
>>First it does not matter what type system (box, cooler is)
>>refrigeration is refrigeration.
>>I do not know where are you taking readings but your
>>bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
>>the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.
>
> Not for refrigeration near a satisfied box, moron. Not even
> close.
>
>>As for freezing up? access or the (use of cooler)must be
>>taken in consideration gasket around the door
>>ambient humidity on the sight ETC.
>>If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
>>or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
>>on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
>>frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
>>Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
>>suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
>>degrees you compressor should be turn off.
>
> Like Weasel and his hack butt-buddy from MS, you've obviously
> never done refrigeration, so STFU.
>
> Asshole, how do you think you're going to going to drive a box
> to 35 if you don't let your coil get below 32 ?????
>
Snip
This is Turtle.
Spoken like a true arm chair freezer Jockey who thinks he knows it all. Earth to
Paul , You ain't no freezer jockey or don't do that kind of work. don't try to
explain something that you don't do for a living in front of a bunch of people
who does it for a living. How's the Family , awwww I mean the cats doing now
days ?
TURTLE
Hey Pie Face , Ain't your list of know nothings getting kind a big now a days.
TURTLE
"Power's Mechanical" <push...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129236155.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >refrigeration is refrigeration.
>>I do not know where are you taking readings but your
>>bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
>>the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.
>
>
> Not for refrigeration near a satisfied box, moron. Not even
> close.
>
>
> Bullshit asshole. A txv will have a steady 10 degrees all thought the
> run cycle Be specific when you try to show how much you think you
> know.
>
This is Turtle.
He is just grabing at straws when he don't have a answer to cover up a lie with.
TURTLE
Cooltemp Industries >
> When you get good enough you can start by answering this posters
> question which i saw you pass by it and not answer it.
Maybe you should do the same. In other, simpler words, just for
you,.....don't try to answer a question when you don't know the answer.
You might be able to fool homeowners, but you can't fool someone in the
trade.
Cooltemp Industries >
> When you get good enough you can start by answering this posters
> question which i saw you pass by it and not answer it.
Try the Yellow Pages, Turtle. Look for a Professional HVAC contractor in
your area. Maybe they can help answer your questions.
With any luck, maybe they'll take you on as an apprentice.
Cooltemp Industries >
> Spoken like a true arm chair freezer Jockey who thinks he knows it
> all.
How did he get in YOUR chair? Did you get up for yet ANOTHER beer??
That's YOUR armchair, buddy, and God knows you deserve it.
Bill
> Hummmmm , I think you need your name put up in the lights by being put in the
> flame club of now PBSC.
Looks like eventually weasel you'll have to put everybody's "name put up
in the lights" as they realize you aren't anything but an old hack.
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Putting LPC's on cap-tube systems? lol. Go back to school idiot.
> This is Turtle.
>
> That was your butt buddy who suggested the LPC on a cap tube system? Then on
> top
> of that called a pressure controller a cold control. and you like that for a
> sleeping partner !
Don't even try to weasel out of this one. You are so busted.
Want to tell everyone again how everyone else doesn't know shit about
refrigeration?
The simple things trip you up weasel. Just like every other hack.
The only thing you can do is get nasty and cry and moan about it.
Now you can go into weasel mode and try to obfuscate by posting your
regular pile of stupid shit and lies.
You need to get another game weasel. You suck at this one.
Bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> Spoken like a true arm chair freezer Jockey who thinks he knows it all. Earth
> to
> Paul , You ain't no freezer jockey or don't do that kind of work. don't try
> to
> explain something that you don't do for a living in front of a bunch of
weasel what you think you know and what is actually common knowledge to
most trades people show you for the hack you are.
If you really want to learn you should shut your yap. But we all know
you want to be the HVAC god here.
That will never happen as you haven't and won't learn.
You wouldn't have to feign asking for help on basic shit that belies
your 45+ years you claim.
It just gripes your ass Paul has the job as HVAC god here and you just
want it handed to you.
Sorry weasel but you'll just have to deal with this disappointment like
all the others.
Whine, cry and lie about it.
Geoman1
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SHj3f.6811$Ls....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message
>>
>> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:9Na3f.13314$5l....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> <..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ib9qk19cmnaiv7et8...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:00:46 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:_693f.5097$Ls....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:unuok1hiee8npnbrs...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
>>>>>>> <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system
>>>>>>>> that has
>>>>>>>>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205
>>>>>>>>psi.
>>>>>>>>Low
>>>>>>>>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then
>>>>>>>>builds
>>>>>>>>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone
>>>>>>>>have any
>>>>>>>>suggestions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> EXPECT some freaking ice, huh ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, check and fix your defrost problem, whether it be
>>>>>>> off-cycle or heaters.
>>>> complicated control to me. Too bad you got it FUCKING WRONG, as
>>>> usual.
>>>>
>>>> If you had ever worked on one, you would know that you can ice
>>>> up EASILY with a pressure cycle control ( layman's term - 'cold
>>>> control' ). Try maintaining a 34 F box and see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> NOW, you fucking moron, the OP needs to stop emailing hacks
>>>> like you, and go buy himself a fucking PARAGON TIMER, and set up an
>>>> OFF CYCLE DEFROST of 20 minutes, 3 times a day.
>>>>
>>>> To the OP - this means you cut the compressor off via the
>>>> control circuit, and leave the evap fans running. If 20 minutes isn't
>>>> enough, increase to 30 minutes.
>>>>
>>>> Moron.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is Turtle.
>>>
>>> What you just suggested here is for this customer to add about $500.00
>>> to the cost of his cooler by installing defrost clock and defrost system
>>> and not fix the cold control the manufactor had installed in it which
>>> they have worked good for 50 years doing it this way. I think you should
>>> send this e-mail to copland and true manufactor of reach in cooler and
>>> change their design to your design at a cost of a extra $500.00 to the
>>> box when a simple cold control would do the same job. ]
>>>
>>> My LORD Paul , your calling a Pressure fan control a cold control
>>> thermostat with your words [[[[[[[[[[ If you had ever worked on one, you
>>> would know that you can ice up EASILY with a pressure cycle control [
>>> layman's terms - ' cold control' ] then try maintaining a 34ºF in a box
>>> and see " . Really Paul you need to talk this over with billy bob and
>>> find how these boxes work ]]]]]]]]].
>>>
>>> Really Pie Face if you really worked on these boxes you would know that
>>> these manufactors have been using cold control thermostat running these
>>> box for 50+ years and doing a good job and you come alone and want to
>>> add $500.00 to the cost of it and then call a cold control thermostat a
>>> pressure fan control.
>>>
>>> Now let me cut you off here when you say or try to explain to me how the
>>> cold control thermostats work for i have been working on them everysince
>>> i was a kid and probley before you could spell freon. Yes i know your
>>> going to have to lie to get out of this one but if there was ever such a
>>> thing as getting cought in a bullshit of a lier , this is one. That is a
>>> good one when you bullshitting and said a cold control thermostat will
>>> not maintain a 34ºF temp on a cooler with nothing else on it to control
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Now let me hear you try to bullshit your way out of this one ? Oh Paul ,
>>> I work on them and you don't.
>>>
>>> TURTLE
>>
>> Turtle, sorry buddy, but your post is way off base, I suggest you re-read
>> what Paul said because he was absolutly correct. I think you totally
>> misunderstood him.
>>
>> First, I have a dozen defrost clocks in stock that I will be glad to sell
>> to you for, lets say, $400? Thats a deal if you are paying $500.
>>
>> Also, Paul never said that that a cold control thermostat was a pressure
>> "fan" control, he was speaking of a low suction pressure controller. Your
>> the one who mentioned that it was a pressure switch, Paul was saying that
>> during defrost the fans would stay on which is correct. BTW, your wrong
>> in your post as this being a thermostat if indeed the switch is reading
>> pressure. If its reading pressure then its a PRESSURE switch and NOT a
>> thermostat. If the manufacturer calls it a thermostat they are wrong.
>>
>> Are you sure that your 'cold control' is a pressure switch which reads
>> suction pressure and not a thermostat? If its a pressure type and this
>> guy is getting 34F then I'm sorry to inform you, your coil will have ice
>> on it. How do you get the air to become 34F unless you have a colder
>> medium to remove the heat and lower the temperature? You have posted in
>> the past when working on A/C units that you have a "15" or a "20" degree
>> split, well, this is true with refrigeration as well. To get a 34 degree
>> box temp your coil is going to be about 19F or lower, and at these
>> temperatures you will have ice. The problem comes when the box doesn't
>> get warm enough to melt the ice before the compressor turns on. This
>> problem is controllable with a pressure switch, with a thermostat it is
>> controllable with a larger differential.
>>
>
> Snip info
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> Let me inlighten you about a true COLD CONTROL THERMOSTAT. The True Cold
> Control has a set point of 18ºF to 30ºF and then has a automatic set point
> of cut back in at 39ºF. No matter where you set the thermostat from 18ºF
> to 30ºF at cut out point , it will always get back to 39ºF before hitting
> cut back in temperature. The Service man or Rookie of today will usely be
> sticking in clocks with the coil to read the temperature of the coil and
> will not let it freeze up by going back to 39ºF with every cycle. This
> cold control thermostat would replace clocks, heaters or anything on reach
> in coolers but now a days they want to complicate the reach in boxes with
> all sorts of electric devices as paul was speaking about. Paul was
> speaking of a clock , time out devices , and everything when the TRUE COLD
> CONTROL will take care of it and add nothing to it.
>
> now you are very much wrong about Paul calling a pressure control the same
> thing as a Layman terms ''cold control' . I will after this post single
> out his quote for you to read where he referres to a pressure controller
> as a cold control. He called a pressure controller a cold Control in his
> own words. it will follow in another post behind this one. read it slow
> and you will see.
>
> TURTLE
I stand corrected in my reply to Turtle and apologize to him, I assumed by
reading threads that it was he that thought a the cap tube used a pressure
control and that the Cold Controller was a pressure control. I misread his
posts and got them confused with replies to him, Sorry Turtle, there has
been so many posts on this that I screwed up on who said what. Bill, your
post about not using a pressure control is correct, and Turtles post above
this one says the same thing and is correct as well.
To make a short post,
YOU DON"T USE A PRESSURE CONTROL ON A CAP TUBE TO OBTAIN DESIRED
TEMPERATURES. The ONLY use of a pressure control on a cap tube that I
recognize is a safety control
I take back just about everything I said before. I thought Turtle was saying
that a Cold control was a pressure control, which would be dumb to use on a
cap tube system. This constant cut in thermostat is used throughout the
industry and its for this application. That is why I told Turtle that if it
reads temperature it wasn't a pressure control but a thermostat. Sorry about
that statement as well Turtle, It like I was preaching to the choir!
Now, as to the defrost control. Sometimes a defrost clock is required due to
excessive opening and closing of the box. This is where Paul is 100%
correct. McCall puts them on salad cases, why? Because to obtain the 34-38
degree box the coil will be about 20 degrees. If the door is opened and
closed all the time ice will form, reduce the air cfm, and the next thing
you know you have a block of ice. So, the time clock prevents this.
However, if you have a Constant cut in thermostat that goes down in
temperature enough you can put the thermostats cap tube into the coil itself
and if the evap ices up it will shut off and not restart until the cap tube
gets back up to the set cut in temp. But, this doesn't always work,
especially with a cap tube because ice patterns don't always run consistent
with them.
I'm going to shut up now, it seems I missed some threads and got everything
screwed up.
Besides, my one daughters home for the weekend from College, I haven't seen
her in 8 weeks and I'm taking a half day off and not think twice about this
group LOL
Later all
Rich
Geoman1
Rich
> This is John
>
> Hey, Terry, what has all your BS got to do with the REAL problem?
> The OP has a specific scenario, which you fail to address.
>
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Geoman1
> And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
> no matter what that other dill hole says.
I've never seen it and certainly would not do it.
Mike, that just simply will not work.... I can't think of one equipment
manufacturer that uses a LP control on a cap tube except as a high pressure
or out of gas safety, and that is rare as well. Can you name a unit that
uses a low pressure control on a cap tube for refrigeration? I can't think
of any.
Rich
Carolina Breeze HVAC
When you type like English is a 3rd launguage for you, its hard for anyone
to know what the fuck you said.
>
Carolina Breeze HVAC
"Bubba" <ReMoVeL...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:4g9rk1titjbttm105...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:45:10 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
> <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Remove the bulb from the cold control off the back wall. Tiestrap it to
>>the
>>suction line inside the evaporator housing.
>
> I have a better idea.
> How about after removing that bulb off the back wall we "Tiestrap"
> your ass to the suction line until you reach 20 degrees? Then after
> you are all good and frozen solid, we take your fat frozen colored
> blind ass out into the parking lot and we all get a free swing at you
> with a large sledgehammer?
> Now THAT'S my idea of a good time.
> Bubba
Id kinda like to submerge him in a vat of liquid nitrogen for about 45
seconds, and then haul him up about 10 stories and just drop him...
do it at the coast and in minutes you will have happy seagulls
DiDo
<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:01:31 GMT, "DiDo" <ase...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Since you already have dozens of replays I Have decided
>>to put my two sense in.
>>First it does not matter what type system (box, cooler is)
>>I do not know where are you taking readings but your
>>bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
>>the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.
>
> Not for refrigeration near a satisfied box, moron. Not even
> close.
>
>>taken in consideration gasket around the door
>>ambient humidity on the sight ETC.
>>If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
>>or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
>>on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
>>frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
>>Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
>>suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
>>degrees you compressor should be turn off.
>
> Like Weasel and his hack butt-buddy from MS, you've obviously
> never done refrigeration, so STFU.
>
> Asshole, how do you think you're going to going to drive a box
> to 35 if you don't let your coil get below 32 ?????
>
>>if cooler happen to be in large use temperature will start
>>to go up. question is with which one you customer can live with
>>one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
>>with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
>>of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator
>
Hey Paul?
My Asshole Freind it seems that you need
English language interpeter
“Question is with which one you customer can live with
one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator”
> And you box will be lucky to see 45 F.
>
>>Note: you can use both switch in series for control
>>on some conditions it may even work better.
>>I say Good luck from Dido
>>
>>
>>
>>"Jerry Furman" <jfu...@tctelco.net> wrote in message
>>news:11kotks...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>>> been
>>> converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
>>> pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>>> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>>> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
>>> up
>>> ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>>> suggestions?
>>>
>>
>