TXV Repacement $1100???
wa...@netzero.net
Lennox CB19-31-2P inside unit. I have been having problems with the
compressor shutting off with a thermal shutdown. It is extremely
erratic. Sometimes it will shutdown and sometimes it will not. When
the tech was here it did shutdown. The tech who looked at it said
compressor current draw is normal. However, he said the charge looked
low. Said that when R22 was added, head pressure went up, but suction
did not. He said that he found that there was only a 10 degree temp
differential across the evaporator coil. Said the temp on suction was
64 degrees and that the TXV is bad and is not allowing enough coolant
back to the compressor to help cool it. Price to fix $1100. This seems
really expensive to me since the part is only about $160. They are
charging $36 a pound for R22 and since the system takes 10.5 pounds
that adds up quick. The unit is 12 years old and naturally since they
sell units they say best course is a full replacement of the heat
pump. Should I be looking at another service tech for their opinion?
Is this price high to replace a TXV (drier also by the way)? I'd like
to go with a geothermal when I replace this, but could not swing it
today, so if the TXV replacement was only going to be about half of
the quote, I'd go for it. It would be nice to get a few more years out
of this heat pump.
Comments?
Ken
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Thanks for the help. I have a Lennox HP25-411-1P that is paired with a
>Lennox CB19-31-2P inside unit. I have been having problems with the
>compressor shutting off with a thermal shutdown. It is extremely
>erratic. Sometimes it will shutdown and sometimes it will not. When
>the tech was here it did shutdown. The tech who looked at it said
>compressor current draw is normal. However, he said the charge looked
>low. Said that when R22 was added, head pressure went up, but suction
>did not. He said that he found that there was only a 10 degree temp
>differential across the evaporator coil. Said the temp on suction was
>64 degrees and that the TXV is bad and is not allowing enough coolant
>back to the compressor to help cool it. Price to fix $1100.
Fucking outrageous.
> This seems
>really expensive to me since the part is only about $160. They are
>charging $36 a pound for R22 and since the system takes 10.5 pounds
>that adds up quick. The unit is 12 years old and naturally since they
>sell units they say best course is a full replacement of the heat
>pump. Should I be looking at another service tech for their opinion?
Hell yes.
>Is this price high to replace a TXV (drier also by the way)? I'd like
>to go with a geothermal when I replace this, but could not swing it
>today, so if the TXV replacement was only going to be about half of
>the quote, I'd go for it. It would be nice to get a few more years out
>of this heat pump.
>
>Comments?
Don't let him him back in your house, unless you him want to
fuck you wife and your dog, too, and he missed them on the first
visit.
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wa...@netzero.net
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available onlinehttp://pmilligan.net/palm/
So what would a reasonable cost be to replace the TXV, drier, and evac
and recharge the unit? Ballpark guys that is all I want. The TXF is
easily accessable in the basement as is the inside air handler and
outside unit. Thanks again...
Ken
B-Hate-Me
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183146807.8...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> So what would a reasonable cost be to replace the TXV, drier, and evac
> and recharge the unit? Ballpark guys that is all I want. The TXF is
> easily accessable in the basement as is the inside air handler and
> outside unit. Thanks again...
$1100.00 sounds like what I'd charge.
Paul's been living in the south too long.
He's a *damm* yankee.
udarrell
>Thanks for the help. I have a Lennox HP25-411-1P that is paired with a
>Lennox CB19-31-2P inside unit. I have been having problems with the
>compressor shutting off with a thermal shutdown. It is extremely
>erratic. Sometimes it will shutdown and sometimes it will not. When
>the tech was here it did shutdown.
>
>The tech who looked at it said
>compressor current draw is normal. However, he said the charge looked
>low. Said that when R22 was added, head pressure went up, but suction
>did not. He said that he found that there was only a 10 degree temp
>differential across the evaporator coil. Said the temp on suction was
>64 degrees and that the TXV is bad and is not allowing enough coolant
>back to the compressor to help cool it.
>
>
First, the R-22 can be pumped down into the condenser & sealed off using
the service valves; there is no reason to get rid of the R-22 unless it
is contaminated.
He may possibly be charging you for R-22 when there may be little or no
need for it
Additionally, there may be NO legitimate reason to replace the TXV,
proper troubleshooting is required to establish if it is bad.
Can he show you the tests 'that prove' the TXV is bad?
Second, many TXVs are adjustable as to how low you want the Superheat to
be. Also, he sensor bulb should be removed and emery paper used to make
better contact & heat transfer to the bulb; the bulb also needs to be
mounted in the proper location on the line.
Third, the TXV keeps the refrigerant flow rate constant to maintain a
specific Superheat setting, adding refrigerant is not likely to change
the suction; a change in the heatload through the evaporator will change
the R-22 flow rate toward maintaining that Superheat setting.
Fourth, the TXV may not be the sole cause of the overheated compressor.
Is the condenser coils & fins clean & the motor delivering its full RPM,
if it's a PSC motor check its run capacitor!
http://www.udarrell.com/ac-trouble-shooting-chart.html - udarrell
>Price to fix $1100. This seems
>really expensive to me since the part is only about $160.
>
>They are
>charging $36 a pound for R22 and since the system takes 10.5 pounds
>that adds up quick. The unit is 12 years old and naturally since they
>sell units they say best course is a full replacement of the heat
>pump.
>
>Should I be looking at another service tech for their opinion?
>Is this price high to replace a TXV (drier also by the way)? I'd like
>to go with a geothermal when I replace this, but could not swing it
>today, so if the TXV replacement was only going to be about half of
>the quote, I'd go for it. It would be nice to get a few more years out
>of this heat pump. Comments? Ken
>
>
If you allow them to replace the TXV that may not solve the problem.
Check the temperature of the air leaving the condenser as compared to
the outdoor temp & post those temps & the split in degrees-F.
Perhaps the 10-F split across the evaporator is due to a non conditioned
source of hot air being drawn into the E-Coil just before the air enters
the blower.
Are you located in a high humid climate? If the compressor is getting
hot I would quit running the AC until the cause(s) of the problem are
located & fixed!
- udarrell
--
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Reality Is Not An Easy Thing To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!
wa...@netzero.net
>
> http://www.udarrell.com/recognizing_real_enemies.html
>
> http://jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html
>
> http://www.antiwar.com/***
>
> Reality Is Not An Easy Thing To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!
So how does one go about finding a reputable HVAC person to tell me
what is wrong? I gave you all the information that the tech gave me.
With that is how he said the TXV was bad. So I guess you are saying he
did not know what he was doing? I live northwest of Philadephia. Know
any good HVAC techs here? Today it is humid and about 75 degrees
outside. The temperature of the air leaving the evaporator is 52
degrees. So that is a 23 degree split. The compressor will run an
hour today before it shuts down. Yesterday, at the peak of the heat
(95 degrees) it would run about 10 minutes. To be honest, it does keep
the house at a constant temperature. I only noticed this because I
turn the temp up in the morning and lower it at night. I was noticing
that sometimes it took too long for the outside unit to start. This
copeland compressor has a replaceable temp limit on it. I thought the
sensor could be bad but since it supposedly triggers at 280 degrees
have no way to test it. Tech said that was not bad (he did not do any
testing to it - just said that). He did put a thermometer on the
compressor by the sensor but it never went above 150 degrees (note
that the sensor goes into the case though).
So my guess is I need a good tech and do not know how to find one.
Naturally everyone will charge me a couple hundred dollars to tell me
what is wrong. I do not have a problem with that, but want it to be
right.....
Ken
Bob Pietrangelo
Philly Area
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bo...@comcast.net (home)
b...@comfort-solution.biz (work)
www.comfort-solution.biz
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183141986....@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Price seems a little high but not outrageous.
>
>Philly Area
Do you guys really get $ 34 / lb for R-22 ? The same R-22 I
see for 2 - 3 $ / lb on Ebay ?
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:hj4b83hid0i99t0p3...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:32:33 -0400, "Bob Pietrangelo"
> <bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Price seems a little high but not outrageous.
>>
>>Philly Area
>
> Do you guys really get $ 34 / lb for R-22 ? The same R-22 I
> see for 2 - 3 $ / lb on Ebay ?
yup ...... do you still pay $0.99/gal for gasoline??
Stormin Mormon
Is your return email adress valid?
What you're describing doesn't sound to me like a bad TXV, nor
like a bad evaporator. Feel free to give me a holler, off group.
Remove the obvious symbols and spamblock. I'm in western NY, and
may be driving through PA some time the week of Independence
Day. I'll have some tools and test equipment with me. Going down
south to visit a friend, and service his heat pumps while I'm
there.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183141986....@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
: Thanks for the help. I have a Lennox HP25-411-1P that is paired
:
Stormin Mormon
news:1183153869.9...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
:
: So how does one go about finding a reputable HVAC person to
tell me
: what is wrong?
CY: Like so many things in life, sometimes it's guess and miss.
I'd suggest to call your friends and neighbors, and see who they
use. From the information you gave, I'd sure not want to cut out
a TXV or a coil, just yet.
I gave you all the information that the tech gave me.
: With that is how he said the TXV was bad. So I guess you are
saying he
: did not know what he was doing?
CY: I've been a HVAC installer for six years. Last year, did zero
installs. Been doing service for part of that time. It's really
been a time of rapid learning. One of the things I'm learning is
that many repairs are really very simple. And, from what I can
figure about your system, it does sound like a simple repair.
I live northwest of Philadephia. Know
: any good HVAC techs here?
CY: I've passed through near Phila, but don't know anyone there.
Today it is humid and about 75 degrees
: outside. The temperature of the air leaving the evaporator is
52
: degrees. So that is a 23 degree split. The compressor will run
an
: hour today before it shuts down. Yesterday, at the peak of the
heat
: (95 degrees) it would run about 10 minutes. To be honest, it
does keep
: the house at a constant temperature.
CY: I sense it's really not running properly. Probably wasting
electric.
I only noticed this because I
: turn the temp up in the morning and lower it at night. I was
noticing
: that sometimes it took too long for the outside unit to start.
CY: Very often, outdoor units have a delay timer, three to five
minutes before they start up.
This
: copeland compressor has a replaceable temp limit on it. I
thought the
: sensor could be bad but since it supposedly triggers at 280
degrees
: have no way to test it. Tech said that was not bad (he did not
do any
: testing to it - just said that). He did put a thermometer on
the
: compressor by the sensor but it never went above 150 degrees
(note
: that the sensor goes into the case though).
CY: Typically compressors have sensors for temperature, and
current (amperes). Often a system will also have a high or low
pressure sensor in addition.
:
: So my guess is I need a good tech and do not know how to find
one.
: Naturally everyone will charge me a couple hundred dollars to
tell me
: what is wrong. I do not have a problem with that, but want it
to be
: right.....
CY: Yes, it's nice to find out what's actually the problem, not
just rip and replace parts.
:
: Ken
:
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Not since the days it cost 20 / bbl.
But your comparison is utterly ridiculous - I see R-22 on Ebay
( IOW 'to any dickwad' ) for 2 - 3 / lb + shipping ( which is probably
as much again ) tonight. Not 20 years ago - tonight. I'm too lazy to
call up United and see what a 30 of it would actually cost ME ( or you
) at the supply house, but I'm guessing maybe $ 5 / lb tops.
So, you get 600 % markup on it ? Damn.
And you can't say 'well, that's installed price', because you
get paid separately for your time, travel, recovery of old juice,
disposal of old juice, use of your vacum pump, etc.
@usenet.com
"Bubba" <LiKeAlA...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:hura83h6rrv9jt7jo...@4ax.com...
> Price is relative to where you live and what company you get. That
> price may be high in one area and low in another. Refrigerant is going
> up by the month.
Goes up by the week here!
> Nothing is cheap including labor. Look at the price
> of gasoline. I dont like that one bit but thats the way it is.
> Anyways, if you are concerned with the price, get another estimate or
> two. Your conversation on the phone to another prospect company might
> include your current system problems, the course of action your
> current company has chosen and maybe asking for one of their more
> experienced service techs. Armed with that info, you might be suprised
> at what you find out.
> By the way, 10 lbs aint diddly. I have a 2.5 ton 14 SEER heat pump
> that holds about 20 lbs!!
> Remember A/C is a luxury, not a necessity.
> Bubba
A/C is a necessity when the temps are 100+ :-)
@usenet.com
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46859975$0$31275$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Your best bet is to ignore Chris.
@usenet.com
> I've got a few ideas. Not being there, I can't be totally sure.
> Is your return email adress valid?
To the OP, your best bet is to ignore Chris.
> What you're describing doesn't sound to me like a bad TXV, nor
> like a bad evaporator. Feel free to give me a holler, off group.
> Remove the obvious symbols and spamblock. I'm in western NY, and
> may be driving through PA some time the week of Independence
> Day. I'll have some tools and test equipment with me. Going down
> south to visit a friend, and service his heat pumps while I'm
> there.
I feel sorry for your friend...
#1 for being your friend
#2 for letting you touch his HP
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've got a few ideas. Not being there, I can't be totally sure.
>Is your return email adress valid?
>
>What you're describing doesn't sound to me like a bad TXV, nor
>like a bad evaporator. Feel free to give me a holler, off group.
>Remove the obvious symbols and spamblock. I'm in western NY, and
>may be driving through PA some time the week of Independence
>Day. I'll have some tools and test equipment with me. Going down
>south to visit a friend, and service his heat pumps while I'm
>there.
Oh.... my.....god........
The only 'holler' that ANYONE should give you, hack-boi, is
'GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THAT UNIT !!!!'.
I wouldn't let you touch my HP if you bought it from me at
full list price plus a 20 % markup and hauled it away first.
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:gr8b83hlou9ol1fav...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:32:47 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>news:hj4b83hid0i99t0p3...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:32:33 -0400, "Bob Pietrangelo"
>>> <bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Price seems a little high but not outrageous.
>>>>
>>>>Philly Area
>>>
>>> Do you guys really get $ 34 / lb for R-22 ? The same R-22 I
>>> see for 2 - 3 $ / lb on Ebay ?
>>
>>yup ...... do you still pay $0.99/gal for gasoline??
>>
>
> Not since the days it cost 20 / bbl.
>
> But your comparison is utterly ridiculous - I see R-22 on Ebay
> ( IOW 'to any dickwad' ) for 2 - 3 / lb + shipping ( which is probably
> as much again ) tonight. Not 20 years ago - tonight. I'm too lazy to
> call up United and see what a 30 of it would actually cost ME ( or you
> ) at the supply house, but I'm guessing maybe $ 5 / lb tops.
At the current price, it *IS* $5.00/lb
> So, you get 600 % markup on it ? Damn.
>
> And you can't say 'well, that's installed price', because you
> get paid separately for your time, travel, recovery of old juice,
> disposal of old juice, use of your vacum pump, etc.
Absolutely
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Well, now that we've cleared THAT up ......
IMO, 600 % markup on freon is fucking rape, period.
ftwhd
ftwhd
Pj dont have a clue. Hes not in that side of the biz. Hes just a
software salesman that trolls here in between pulling his pud.
ftwhd
wrote:
And fifth, he could cool and condition the air for his whole house
with a 6000btu window shaker and a box fan...
ftwhd
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
><wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>news:1183153869.9...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>:
>: So how does one go about finding a reputable HVAC person to
>tell me
>: what is wrong?
>
>CY: Like so many things in life, sometimes it's guess and miss.
Take better aim.
ROCK
HEAD
BASH
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:kdeb831p459fciapo...@4ax.com...
You have no clue, you have never used flat rate. Welcome to the 21st
century.
> IMO, 600 % markup on freon is fucking rape, period.
Actually I only use a 3 times mark-up on refrigerant
ftwhd
wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:32:33 -0400, "Bob Pietrangelo"
><bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Price seems a little high but not outrageous.
>>
>>Philly Area
>
> Do you guys really get $ 34 / lb for R-22 ? The same R-22 I
>see for 2 - 3 $ / lb on Ebay ?
Do you think we do this for free? Maybe thats why you
live in a trailer.
ftwhd
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've got a few ideas. Not being there, I can't be totally sure.
>Is your return email adress valid?
>
>What you're describing doesn't sound to me like a bad TXV, nor
>like a bad evaporator. Feel free to give me a holler, off group.
>Remove the obvious symbols and spamblock. I'm in western NY, and
>may be driving through PA some time the week of Independence
>Day. I'll have some tools and test equipment with me. Going down
>south to visit a friend, and service his heat pumps while I'm
>there.
ROCK
HEAD
BASH
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
You plainly found a whole new fucking religion there, didn't
you ?
>
>> IMO, 600 % markup on freon is fucking rape, period.
>
>Actually I only use a 3 times mark-up on refrigerant
>
That I don't have a problem with. That would be $ 15 / lb.
You said ( or agreed ) that you charge $ 34. That's not $ 15.
So, you agree that the quote of $34 / lb is more than double
what you charge, right ? And if $ 15 is 'reasonable' ( which I agree
it is ), then 'Reasonable times 2.x' = rape, right ?
I mean, I could check with Andy Schoen or Jim Lavell, the
freon experts, but I'm pretty darn sure they would both agree 15 is
not the same as 34.
So, what does your book say for the repair in question -
replace a small resi TXV - complete job. Not including diagnostic
call, which the guy already paid for separately, I think.
How many hours, and what $$ ?
@usenet.com
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:g2gb831ho8e7n3dqk...@4ax.com...
YOU said I charge $34/lb not me.
What I charge for R-22 is this
1st lb is free, if it takes more than 1 lb, that triggers an electronic leac
search and associated repairs.
1-4lbs $92
5-9lbs $182
10-14lbs $282
> So, you agree that the quote of $34 / lb is more than double
> what you charge, right ? And if $ 15 is 'reasonable' ( which I agree
> it is ), then 'Reasonable times 2.x' = rape, right ?
Define "reasonable" in terms of net profit
> I mean, I could check with Andy Schoen or Jim Lavell, the
> freon experts, but I'm pretty darn sure they would both agree 15 is
> not the same as 34.
I can count too, I just don't try to twist things around
> So, what does your book say for the repair in question -
> replace a small resi TXV - complete job. Not including diagnostic
> call, which the guy already paid for separately, I think.
>
> How many hours, and what $$ ?
I have never had to change out a TXV by itself, I do however have occasion
to change out high efficiency coils *with* a TXV.
The price for a high efficiency coil runs from $1036(2 ton) to $1324(5 ton)
plus refrigerant.
I show 3 hours to do the change-out. The time will be pretty much the same
for just the TXV. I do not show changing *just* a TXV in my book, but I can
figure about $750 for a TXV change-out.
Before you get your panties in a wad about rape, my labor rate is
$110/hr...Whats yours??
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
I KNEW you were going to say that.
I said " Do you guys really get $ 34 / lb for R-22 ?
The same R-22 I see for 2 - 3 $ / lb on Ebay ?"
And you replied "yep".
>What I charge for R-22 is this
>1st lb is free, if it takes more than 1 lb, that triggers an electronic leac
>search and associated repairs.
>1-4lbs $92
>5-9lbs $182
>10-14lbs $282
So, the first 2 pounds, that cost you $ 10, cost the customer
% $ 92 ?????
Pound # 10 cost them $ 100 ???? That you paid $ 5 for ???
You fucking rapist ....... you call yourself a Christian ?
You go to church on Sunday and present yourself to God in His House,
after living your life like that all week, stealing from people ????
>> So, you agree that the quote of $34 / lb is more than double
>> what you charge, right ? And if $ 15 is 'reasonable' ( which I agree
>> it is ), then 'Reasonable times 2.x' = rape, right ?
>
>Define "reasonable" in terms of net profit
What are you, some kind of fucking politician ? Did you vote
for that lying scumbag Trent Lott ?
Answer the fucking question. Let's assume that you feel you
charge a reasonable price, and that you just said you charge $ 15 / lb
( "Actually I only use a 3 times mark-up on refrigerant", you said ).
3 x 5 = 15, last time I checked.
But you LIED AGAIN !!!!! Look at your own words ! You DO NOT
"..use a 3 times mark-up", you charge up to $ 100 / lb !!!!! $ 100 =
$ 5 x 20 !!!!!! A TWENTY multiplier, not THREE !!!!!
>> I mean, I could check with Andy Schoen or Jim Lavell, the
>> freon experts, but I'm pretty darn sure they would both agree 15 is
>> not the same as 34.
>
>I can count too, I just don't try to twist things around
Oh....my....god...... you are the fucking WORST at twisting
and evading. Except maybe Trent Lott.
>
>> So, what does your book say for the repair in question -
>> replace a small resi TXV - complete job. Not including diagnostic
>> call, which the guy already paid for separately, I think.
>>
>> How many hours, and what $$ ?
>
>I have never had to change out a TXV by itself, I do however have occasion
>to change out high efficiency coils *with* a TXV.
Geez - you never diagnosed a bad TXV ??? And you've been in
the business HOW long ??????? Or do you just not know how to change
one wihtout playing 'parts swapping' and changing out the whole
freaking assembly it's in ?
>The price for a high efficiency coil runs from $1036(2 ton) to $1324(5 ton)
>plus refrigerant.
No WONDER you don't JUST FUCKING FIX WHAT NEEDS FIXING. Too
much MONEY in changing THINGS THAT DON'T NEED CHANGING.
>I show 3 hours to do the change-out. The time will be pretty much the same
>for just the TXV. I do not show changing *just* a TXV in my book, but I can
>figure about $750 for a TXV change-out.
$ 750 I could see, maybe. Not cheap, but not outrageous.
~ $ 100 cost of supplies ( TXV and freon ), 3 hours including
travel ( a nice leisurely pace ) , various odds 'n ends as mentioend
before, all marked up appropriately.
So - the OP has a quote for $ 1,100 for it, if I recall.
RAPE !!!!!
>Before you get your panties in a wad about rape, my labor rate is
>$110/hr...Whats yours??
Varies - up to $ 200 is the most I've charged so far.
Typically ~ $ 100. And I have NO overhead, no truck, no tools (
except this here trusty ol' computer ). I'm a programmer, not a field
tech if you recall.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:h1ib835qnqfg521gh...@4ax.com...
> >What I charge for R-22 is this
> >1st lb is free, if it takes more than 1 lb, that triggers an electronic
leac
> >search and associated repairs.
> >1-4lbs $92
> >5-9lbs $182
> >10-14lbs $282
>
> So, the first 2 pounds, that cost you $ 10, cost the customer
> % $ 92 ?????
>
> Pound # 10 cost them $ 100 ???? That you paid $ 5 for ???
It's flat rate, so it includes the time that it takes to balance the charge.
The cost isn't just for the refrigerant.
> But you LIED AGAIN !!!!! Look at your own words ! You DO NOT
> "..use a 3 times mark-up", you charge up to $ 100 / lb !!!!! $ 100 =
> $ 5 x 20 !!!!!! A TWENTY multiplier, not THREE !!!!!
Again, that price is including time.
> >Before you get your panties in a wad about rape, my labor rate is
> >$110/hr...Whats yours??
>
> Varies - up to $ 200 is the most I've charged so far.
> Typically ~ $ 100. And I have NO overhead, no truck, no tools (
> except this here trusty ol' computer ). I'm a programmer, not a field
> tech if you recall.
So his $110/hr is very reasonable since he does have the overhead, truck,
and tools. :-)
I will be one of the first to tell you that doing HVAC/R has changed greatly
in the past couple years. Everything is outragous these days and if you are
not changing your pricing to keep up, you will be out of business in short
order.
wa...@netzero.net
> <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>
> news:g2gb831ho8e7n3dqk...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >>news:kdeb831p459fciapo...@4ax.com...
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:gr8b83hlou9ol1fav...@4ax.com...
Why do HVAC discussions always deteriorate into shouting matches?
Anway, I am not convinced that the diagnosis is correct, although I
notice that the return line is sweating profusely and when it goes
through the TXV it is not. I have to check the temp I guess. Is there
a way to fool the TXV to think there is a large heat demand (would
this make it pass a lot of freon?).
Anyway, about the pricing:
Quote for the TXV - $416 (I called a national parts house - price
$116)
Freon quote 10.5 LBS x $36 = $378 (same parts house 30 LBS - price
$140)
Labor - $350 - this sounded more then fair...
So honestly I feel that this should probably be about a $600 - $700
job max and I am sure I will get flamed. The quoted price is way high.
This was the dealer who installed the unit in the house when it was
built. They just lost a customer.....
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Why do HVAC discussions always deteriorate into shouting matches?
Umm... who the hell are you ?
>Anway, I am not convinced that the diagnosis is correct, although I
>notice that the return line is sweating profusely and when it goes
>through the TXV it is not. I have to check the temp I guess. Is there
>a way to fool the TXV to think there is a large heat demand (would
>this make it pass a lot of freon?).
Yes, but that is not what you do. You need to check something
called Superheat. That is what a TXV does, that is ALL it does, is
control superheat. Sweating lines tell you nothing except that SOME (
considerable ) refrigerant is flowing, not whether it is the RIGHT
amount or not.
If you were to unstrap the bulb and hold it in your hand, the
TXV should open wide open. If you were to put it in ice water, it
should constrict down. But, you have no way of seeing what it is
doing, other than measuring superheat.
>
>Anyway, about the pricing:
>Quote for the TXV - $416 (I called a national parts house - price
>$116)
>Freon quote 10.5 LBS x $36 = $378 (same parts house 30 LBS - price
>$140)
>Labor - $350 - this sounded more then fair...
10 Lbs is a LOT for a residential system. BTW. Very suspect
number.
>So honestly I feel that this should probably be about a $600 - $700
>job max and I am sure I will get flamed. The quoted price is way high.
Yep. I think we covered that :-)
>This was the dealer who installed the unit in the house when it was
>built. They just lost a customer.....
Good call.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:h1ib835qnqfg521gh...@4ax.com...
>
>> >What I charge for R-22 is this
>> >1st lb is free, if it takes more than 1 lb, that triggers an electronic
>leac
>> >search and associated repairs.
>> >1-4lbs $92
>> >5-9lbs $182
>> >10-14lbs $282
>>
>> So, the first 2 pounds, that cost you $ 10, cost the customer
>> % $ 92 ?????
>>
>> Pound # 10 cost them $ 100 ???? That you paid $ 5 for ???
>
>
>It's flat rate, so it includes the time that it takes to balance the charge.
>The cost isn't just for the refrigerant.
Umm... that's pretty much inherent with putting the shit in,
right ?
>
>
>> But you LIED AGAIN !!!!! Look at your own words ! You DO NOT
>> "..use a 3 times mark-up", you charge up to $ 100 / lb !!!!! $ 100 =
>> $ 5 x 20 !!!!!! A TWENTY multiplier, not THREE !!!!!
>
>
>Again, that price is including time.
How long does it take for that extra pound to go in ? $ 85
worth ? Homey don't think so.
>
>> >Before you get your panties in a wad about rape, my labor rate is
>> >$110/hr...Whats yours??
>>
>> Varies - up to $ 200 is the most I've charged so far.
>> Typically ~ $ 100. And I have NO overhead, no truck, no tools (
>> except this here trusty ol' computer ). I'm a programmer, not a field
>> tech if you recall.
>
>
>So his $110/hr is very reasonable since he does have the overhead, truck,
>and tools. :-)
I have no problem with his $ 110. Never said I did.
I DO have a problem with it when he says that, in the case of
a bad TXV, replacing it would run $ 750 ( no problem there ), but he
NEVER does that, he REPLACES THE WHOLE FUCKING COIL ASSEMBLY
for $ 1,300.
>
>
>I will be one of the first to tell you that doing HVAC/R has changed greatly
>in the past couple years. Everything is outragous these days and if you are
>not changing your pricing to keep up, you will be out of business in short
>order.
>
That's fine. And I have no problem with his proposed $ 750
for the job. $ 1,100, as the OP was quoted, is rape.
@usenet.com
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183176261.4...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Why do HVAC discussions always deteriorate into shouting matches?
> Anway, I am not convinced that the diagnosis is correct, although I
> notice that the return line is sweating profusely and when it goes
> through the TXV it is not. I have to check the temp I guess. Is there
> a way to fool the TXV to think there is a large heat demand (would
> this make it pass a lot of freon?).
Stick the bulb in warm water or hold it in your hand.
> Anyway, about the pricing:
> Quote for the TXV - $416 (I called a national parts house - price
> $116)
> Freon quote 10.5 LBS x $36 = $378 (same parts house 30 LBS - price
> $140)
> Labor - $350 - this sounded more then fair...
>
> So honestly I feel that this should probably be about a $600 - $700
> job max and I am sure I will get flamed. The quoted price is way high.
> This was the dealer who installed the unit in the house when it was
> built. They just lost a customer.....
Just remember there is a markup on parts and this isn't *retail*. There is a
big difference between retail and in-home service prices. One brings the
products and a rolling service shop to your home and that involves a lot of
extra cost to doing business. But that's ok, most people don't understand
how to run a profitable service company and for that reason alone is why
there's a huge amount of companies that go under each and every year.
You can be on the cutting edge of technology, training and be the best in
the field, but if you don't charge enough you are not going to be around
long.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:60nb83d65m2olg7b3...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:03:44 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >news:h1ib835qnqfg521gh...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> >What I charge for R-22 is this
> >> >1st lb is free, if it takes more than 1 lb, that triggers an
electronic
> >leac
> >> >search and associated repairs.
> >> >1-4lbs $92
> >> >5-9lbs $182
> >> >10-14lbs $282
> >>
> >> So, the first 2 pounds, that cost you $ 10, cost the customer
> >> % $ 92 ?????
> >>
> >> Pound # 10 cost them $ 100 ???? That you paid $ 5 for ???
> >
> >
> >It's flat rate, so it includes the time that it takes to balance the
charge.
> >The cost isn't just for the refrigerant.
>
> Umm... that's pretty much inherent with putting the shit in,
> right ?
Ok, example.... diagnosis/trip $69.99 unit takes 10 pounds * 15 is $150
Are you going to charge for your time to install it?
> That's fine. And I have no problem with his proposed $ 750
> for the job. $ 1,100, as the OP was quoted, is rape.
Maybe it's a Lennox TXV? LMAO :-)
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ammb83pfljse0l1sl...@4ax.com...
> 10 Lbs is a LOT for a residential system. BTW. Very suspect
> number.
It's not that unusual at all... many take more than that.
To the OP, post the make and model of your outside condenser.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>
><wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>news:1183176261.4...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Why do HVAC discussions always deteriorate into shouting matches?
>> Anway, I am not convinced that the diagnosis is correct, although I
>> notice that the return line is sweating profusely and when it goes
>> through the TXV it is not. I have to check the temp I guess. Is there
>> a way to fool the TXV to think there is a large heat demand (would
>> this make it pass a lot of freon?).
>
>
>Stick the bulb in warm water or hold it in your hand.
Or ..... oh, nevermind. That would be awkward, and
unsanitary.
>
>
>> Anyway, about the pricing:
>> Quote for the TXV - $416 (I called a national parts house - price
>> $116)
>> Freon quote 10.5 LBS x $36 = $378 (same parts house 30 LBS - price
>> $140)
>> Labor - $350 - this sounded more then fair...
>>
>> So honestly I feel that this should probably be about a $600 - $700
>> job max and I am sure I will get flamed. The quoted price is way high.
>> This was the dealer who installed the unit in the house when it was
>> built. They just lost a customer.....
>
>
>Just remember there is a markup on parts and this isn't *retail*. There is a
>big difference between retail and in-home service prices. One brings the
>products and a rolling service shop to your home and that involves a lot of
>extra cost to doing business. But that's ok, most people don't understand
>how to run a profitable service company and for that reason alone is why
>there's a huge amount of companies that go under each and every year.
>
>You can be on the cutting edge of technology, training and be the best in
>the field, but if you don't charge enough you are not going to be around
>long.
>
OK.
What would you charge to replace a resi TXV ? Total job.
Let's assume a 2 -3 ton, in-town, good access ( he said so ).. TXV,
Freon, drier, all associated use of equipment ( recovery, disposal if
needed, vacumn, N, brazing supplies, etc etc )
How much time, and $$$ ? Assume you've already diagnosed it (
as the OP says ), so you can integrate the trip to the supply house in
your routine between dianosis and repair.
Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
If so, why ?
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:60nb83d65m2olg7b3...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:03:44 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>> >news:h1ib835qnqfg521gh...@4ax.com...
>> >
>> >> >What I charge for R-22 is this
>> >> >1st lb is free, if it takes more than 1 lb, that triggers an
>electronic
>> >leac
>> >> >search and associated repairs.
>> >> >1-4lbs $92
>> >> >5-9lbs $182
>> >> >10-14lbs $282
>> >>
>> >> So, the first 2 pounds, that cost you $ 10, cost the customer
>> >> % $ 92 ?????
>> >>
>> >> Pound # 10 cost them $ 100 ???? That you paid $ 5 for ???
>> >
>> >
>> >It's flat rate, so it includes the time that it takes to balance the
>charge.
>> >The cost isn't just for the refrigerant.
>>
>> Umm... that's pretty much inherent with putting the shit in,
>> right ?
>
>
>Ok, example.... diagnosis/trip $69.99 unit takes 10 pounds * 15 is $150
>
>Are you going to charge for your time to install it?
Of course. How much time does adding that $ 100 pound ( lb #
10 ) of refer take, do you figure ?
>> That's fine. And I have no problem with his proposed $ 750
>> for the job. $ 1,100, as the OP was quoted, is rape.
>
>
>Maybe it's a Lennox TXV? LMAO :-)
For an extra $ 350, Dave's wife better show up 'ready and
willing' :-)
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
And factory charge #, if you can find it on the nameplate or
the paperwork. Often stated in oz's, or lb + oz's, on the nameplate.
Or we can make someone look it up :-)
Also - how far from the outside unit to the inside unit ?
Stormin Mormon
to say yes?
As to shouting matches, I'm working on a theory. The boys aren't
allowed to shout at customers, so they come here and shout at
each other.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183176261.4...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
:
: Why do HVAC discussions always deteriorate into shouting
:
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:q5ob83p0i69kujldu...@4ax.com...
He's figuring around 40 mins on his flat rate price. Pretty reasonable for
balancing a charge adding 10-14 pounds.
> >> That's fine. And I have no problem with his proposed $ 750
> >> for the job. $ 1,100, as the OP was quoted, is rape.
> >
> >
> >Maybe it's a Lennox TXV? LMAO :-)
>
> For an extra $ 350, Dave's wife better show up 'ready and
> willing' :-)
She probably getting pretty old... you can have her. :-)
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:1aob83dlt3gav1s9g...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:41:17 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >news:ammb83pfljse0l1sl...@4ax.com...
> >
> >
> >> 10 Lbs is a LOT for a residential system. BTW. Very suspect
> >> number.
> >
> >
> >It's not that unusual at all... many take more than that.
> >
> >To the OP, post the make and model of your outside condenser.
> >
>
> And factory charge #, if you can find it on the nameplate or
> the paperwork. Often stated in oz's, or lb + oz's, on the nameplate.
>
> Or we can make someone look it up :-)
>
> Also - how far from the outside unit to the inside unit ?
Oops, missed it....
"I have a Lennox HP25-411-1P that is paired with a
Lennox CB19-31-2P inside unit."
That explains it. LOL
@usenet.com
<kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote in message
news:bf0af$4685de45$9440c41e$26...@STARBAND.NET...
> Maybe it's a Lennox TXV? LMAO :-)
Speaking of which it is...
"I have a Lennox HP25-411-1P that is paired with a
Lennox CB19-31-2P inside unit."
That explains everything. LOL
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:bpnb83lonnp5c5l4s...@4ax.com...
> OK.
>
> What would you charge to replace a resi TXV ? Total job.
> Let's assume a 2 -3 ton, in-town, good access ( he said so )..
They ALWAYS say that. :-)
And this is on a 3.5 ton unit.
> TXV,
> Freon, drier, all associated use of equipment ( recovery, disposal if
> needed, vacumn, N, brazing supplies, etc etc )
>
> How much time, and $$$ ? Assume you've already diagnosed it (
> as the OP says ), so you can integrate the trip to the supply house in
> your routine between dianosis and repair.
It would depend on some factors that haven't been talked about yet.
1. Cased coil or is it installed in a plenum?
2. Condenser location? Ground level, raised platform or roof?
3. How old of a unit? In or out of warranty, as the installing company is
the one doing the service.
4. System known to be tight and dry?
5. Location? Yes, you said 'in town', but what town? That could mean 10-90
mins travel depending on the city (or Jungle). :-)
$ 850 would be a good starting point.... that's without checking on the OEM
TXV from Lennox, which is what they're probably quoting to install. Which
would probably raise it to $ 950 pretty quickly.
> Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
> If so, why ?
That's a judgment call....
Age, cleanliness, coil deterioration, etc... but, no not normally.
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:bpnb83lonnp5c5l4s...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:31:55 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
>>
>><wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>>news:1183176261.4...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Why do HVAC discussions always deteriorate into shouting matches?
>>> Anway, I am not convinced that the diagnosis is correct, although I
>>> notice that the return line is sweating profusely and when it goes
>>> through the TXV it is not. I have to check the temp I guess. Is there
>>> a way to fool the TXV to think there is a large heat demand (would
>>> this make it pass a lot of freon?).
>>
>>
>>Stick the bulb in warm water or hold it in your hand.
>
> Or ..... oh, nevermind. That would be awkward, and
> unsanitary.
Only if you show me how
The coil only gets replaced when it starts leaking. I have not had to
replace a TVX by itself yet, because I have not found a bad one. With good
installation practices, a TXV will generally not have any problems, nor will
most any other part of the system. FWIW, the only problems I have had with
all of the systems I have installed over the last 10 years have been a flaky
furnace door switch, a blower motor that went bad in the first month, and 1
evap coil that leaked after only 5 months.
Bill
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
> If so, why ?
No. The TXV on this thing is flare connection. It has a LL service
valve. Changing the coil in this case when only the TXV is bad is
criminal.
You could (without changing the drier) pump this down, swap the valve
and pull a fast vacuum and be done.
Which if that is the only problem is what I'd do.
Noonie, flat rate isn't a license to steal.
Bill
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
> > If so, why ?
>
> The coil only gets replaced when it starts leaking. I have not had to
> replace a TVX by itself yet, because I have not found a bad one. With good
> installation practices, a TXV will generally not have any problems, nor will
> most any other part of the system. FWIW, the only problems I have had with
> all of the systems I have installed over the last 10 years have been a flaky
> furnace door switch, a blower motor that went bad in the first month, and 1
> evap coil that leaked after only 5 months.
So you don't do service except on your installs. You just sell everyone
a new system.
This guy has a bad TXV. Try to pay attention noonie.
wa...@netzero.net
> In article <bpnb83lonnp5c5l4s1ipakc6udc6oqf...@4ax.com>,
Exactly. I can purchase the part for $116 (not the quoted $416). The
TXV is on a flared connection and is mounted on the return line
outside of the air exchanger. If I had the part I could swap it in 1/2
hour and I am not an HVAC guy. Now I realize that the system would
have to be evaced and recharged, but cut me a break, $1000 seems a lot
for that.
Hey Bill where are you when I need a good HVAC guy! You'd have my
business.....
Ken
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>On Jun 30, 9:29 am, Bill <notinteres...@mail.com> wrote:
>> In article <bpnb83lonnp5c5l4s1ipakc6udc6oqf...@4ax.com>,
>>
>> .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>> > Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
>> > If so, why ?
>>
>> No. The TXV on this thing is flare connection. It has a LL service
>> valve. Changing the coil in this case when only the TXV is bad is
>> criminal.
>>
>> You could (without changing the drier) pump this down, swap the valve
>> and pull a fast vacuum and be done.
>> Which if that is the only problem is what I'd do.
>>
>> Noonie, flat rate isn't a license to steal.
>>
>> --http://michellemalkin.com/
>
>Exactly. I can purchase the part for $116 (not the quoted $416). The
Anyone in the trade pays a lot less for it, too.
>TXV is on a flared connection and is mounted on the return line
>outside of the air exchanger. If I had the part I could swap it in 1/2
>hour and I am not an HVAC guy. Now I realize that the system would
>have to be evaced and recharged, but cut me a break, $1000 seems a lot
>for that.
>
>Hey Bill where are you when I need a good HVAC guy! You'd have my
>business.....
>
>Ken
Geez - *I'M** the one who set you straight on this whole
thing, so you thank HIM ?????
Figures.....
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
While you're there working on a system, you're saying adding
10 lbs instead of 9 lbs takes you an extra 40 minutes ? That one
extra lb takes 3/4 of an hour ? You got 'issues', son.
>> >> That's fine. And I have no problem with his proposed $ 750
>> >> for the job. $ 1,100, as the OP was quoted, is rape.
>> >
>> >
>> >Maybe it's a Lennox TXV? LMAO :-)
>>
>> For an extra $ 350, Dave's wife better show up 'ready and
>> willing' :-)
>
>
>She probably getting pretty old... you can have her. :-)
>
--
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
You start high pretty quick.
>
>> Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
>> If so, why ?
>
>
>That's a judgment call....
Yes it is.
>
>Age, cleanliness, coil deterioration, etc... but, no not normally.
Right. Noony said he has NEVER changed a TXV, he ALWAYS
changes the whole thing, and the price gets up to ~ $ 1,300.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
You don't take service calls on systems you DIDN'T install ?
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>In article <bpnb83lonnp5c5l4s...@4ax.com>,
> .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>> Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
>> If so, why ?
>
>No. The TXV on this thing is flare connection. It has a LL service
>valve. Changing the coil in this case when only the TXV is bad is
>criminal.
>
>You could (without changing the drier) pump this down, swap the valve
>and pull a fast vacuum and be done.
Then the whole discussion about the $ 1,100 changes, huh ?
And it becomes even worse.
>Which if that is the only problem is what I'd do.
>
>Noonie, flat rate isn't a license to steal.
--
wa...@netzero.net
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 06:58:03 -0700, w...@netzero.net wrote:
> >On Jun 30, 9:29 am, Bill <notinteres...@mail.com> wrote:
> >> In article <bpnb83lonnp5c5l4s1ipakc6udc6oqf...@4ax.com>,
>
> >> .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> >> > Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
> >> > If so, why ?
>
> >> No. The TXV on this thing is flare connection. It has a LL service
> >> valve. Changing the coil in this case when only the TXV is bad is
> >> criminal.
>
> >> You could (without changing the drier) pump this down, swap the valve
> >> and pull a fast vacuum and be done.
> >> Which if that is the only problem is what I'd do.
>
> >> Noonie, flat rate isn't a license to steal.
>
> >> --http://michellemalkin.com/
>
> >Exactly. I can purchase the part for $116 (not the quoted $416). The
>
> Anyone in the trade pays a lot less for it, too.
>
> >TXV is on a flared connection and is mounted on the return line
> >outside of the air exchanger. If I had the part I could swap it in 1/2
> >have to be evaced and recharged, but cut me a break, $1000 seems a lot
> >for that.
>
> >business.....
>
> >Ken
>
> Geez - *I'M** the one who set you straight on this whole
> thing, so you thank HIM ?????
>
> Figures.....
>
> --
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available onlinehttp://pmilligan.net/palm/
Thank you also Paul, This thing is going so fast it is hard to keep
up!! I do appreciate your comments.
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:5bpc835610g16m2tu...@4ax.com...
Its the end of the month, and time for you to get your meds refilled
Noon-Air
"Bubba" <LiKeAlA...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:tunc83hacgsv116v9...@4ax.com...
>> .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>>
>>> Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
>>> If so, why ?
>>
>>No. The TXV on this thing is flare connection. It has a LL service
>>valve. Changing the coil in this case when only the TXV is bad is
>>criminal.
>>
>>You could (without changing the drier) pump this down, swap the valve
>>and pull a fast vacuum and be done.
>
> install, coil replacement, compressor or TXV, it gets pulled down to
> 500 microns or lower. And YES, I do that EVERY time. That time is part
> of the price. If they want it done fast, its time to call someone
> else.
> Bubba
>
>>Which if that is the only problem is what I'd do.
>>
>>Noonie, flat rate isn't a license to steal.
Flat rate has taken me from *almost* being able to pay my bills, to making a
decent living. I like living in a brick and morter home instead of a
trailer. I know what it takes to keep my doors open, and what my margins
are. I understand the business of running a business.
No, flat rate isn't "a license to steal", its a tool to be able to stay in
business and even make a profit.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable, in
fact. It is a COMMON failure point. Anyone who's any good at all
also knows how to take them apart, clean them, check the pins and
diaphragm, etc, and repair 'in situ' without always having to pull the
base ( unless it's needed ). I bet you don't even own a pin guage, or
know how to use it.
ftwhd
wrote:
This is the time of month he starts soliciting nexts months lot rent..
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
I guess thats because you have no clue about the real world anymore, and can
only make uninformed ASSumptions.
The percentage of existing systems that I service that are still 10SEER with
pistons or cap tubes runs about 95% of my customer base.
I don't generally do a lot of commercial work either. FWIW, in this neck of
the woods, coils start leaking long before the TXV goes bad.
Before you try to pull more shit out of your ass, or try to twist anything
else I say around, maybe you should come down here and SEE first hand what I
do and how I do it. Nahhhhh that will never happen, its too easy for you to
try and stir up shit from your keyboard instead of seeing whats happening in
the real world.
First thing is to get your meds refilled.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:e1pc83pkc15nia20a...@4ax.com...
No, you do... as this is the TOTAL time, not EXTRA time.
Do the math.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:77pc8358enos5oedi...@4ax.com...
It's a Lennox... what'd you expect? :-)
> >> Would you just automatically replace the whole coil assembly ?
> >> If so, why ?
> >
> >
> >That's a judgment call....
>
> Yes it is.
> >
> >Age, cleanliness, coil deterioration, etc... but, no not normally.
>
> Right. Noony said he has NEVER changed a TXV, he ALWAYS
> changes the whole thing, and the price gets up to ~ $ 1,300.
He also stated he hasn't come across a bad TXV.
The the point is really mute, as he's talking from experience and he hasn't
priced out just a TXV without the coil.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
> It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
> service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable, in
> fact. It is a COMMON failure point.
Never lived in the northern part of the USA, Eh?
@usenet.com
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183211883.2...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Exactly. I can purchase the part for $116 (not the quoted $416). The
> TXV is on a flared connection and is mounted on the return line
> outside of the air exchanger. If I had the part I could swap it in 1/2
> hour and I am not an HVAC guy. Now I realize
Now realize you have to pumpdown or recover the 10.5 pounds of refrigerant
FIRST.
Everything isn't as easy as it seems to a homeowner.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
You're a very VERY small fish in a VERY VERY large pond, and
you think you know what it is. You don't.
>
>The percentage of existing systems that I service that are still 10SEER with
>pistons or cap tubes runs about 95% of my customer base.
That's because you're a small-time 'works out of his garage,
has no employees or office' residential guy who never worked on
anything bigger than 3 ton splits. Sorry, I didn't realize diagnosing
and fixing a bad TXV was over your head, and something you've never
done in your life. My bad.
>I don't generally do a lot of commercial work either. FWIW, in this neck of
>the woods, coils start leaking long before the TXV goes bad.
>
>Before you try to pull more shit out of your ass, or try to twist anything
>else I say around, maybe you should come down here and SEE first hand what I
>do and how I do it. Nahhhhh that will never happen, its too easy for you to
>try and stir up shit from your keyboard instead of seeing whats happening in
>the real world.
>
>First thing is to get your meds refilled.
Right after you go fuck yourself, small-timer.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Between lb # 9 and lb # 10, that ONE POUND, costs the customer
$ 100, and you're saying it take an extra 40 minutes.
Bullshit.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
He stated that IF HE DID, he would change the whole coil
assembly.
>
>The the point is really mute, as he's talking from experience and he hasn't
>priced out just a TXV without the coil.
>
If he's never diagnosed one in his life, he's talking out of
his ass, which IS his only experience.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Only for 34 years. I was starting to get the hang of it, too.
Now, mind you, my background is not limited to 3 ton resi
splits, like Noony's is.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
He never said it was.
Bill pointed out that this unit has a service valve, and thus
can be pumped down. Changes shit a LOT, huh ? I mean for the tech
quoting $ 1,100, not for the DIY'r.
@usenet.com
"Bill" <notint...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:46865ac6$0$4705$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> Noonie, flat rate isn't a license to steal.
One thing about flat rate is that the client knows the charges up front
BEFORE any work is done.
It's up to them to decide whether the charges are reasonable or not.
Your position basically states that someone charging $150/hr is stealing,
even when the client knew before hand what the charges were.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:in3d83h6mdoja1vfb...@4ax.com...
Did you flunk math or are you just to lazy to do the math?
Here, I'll do it for you...
1-4lbs $92
5-9lbs $182
10-14lbs $282
So the flat rate is 182 for 9 lbs.
That's 9 * 15 = 135 and installation is 47 for a total of $182
Flat rate for 10 pounds, which includes up to 14 lbs is...
14 * 15 = 210 and installation is 72 for a total of $282
Where is the extra $100? It's actually 72 - 47, which = $25
That equates to about 13.5 mins.
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know it's only 10.5 pounds, but that isn't the way 'flat
rate' works and you know it.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:bu3d83tp0rhegko0u...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:04:58 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
> >> service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable, in
> >> fact. It is a COMMON failure point.
> >
> >
> >Never lived in the northern part of the USA, Eh?
> >
> >
>
> Only for 34 years. I was starting to get the hang of it, too.
Then tell me how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10
SEER, straight air conditioning systems?
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:j24d83lbgn4053bbj...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:09:28 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
> >news:1183211883.2...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> Exactly. I can purchase the part for $116 (not the quoted $416). The
> >> TXV is on a flared connection and is mounted on the return line
> >> outside of the air exchanger. If I had the part I could swap it in 1/2
> >> hour and I am not an HVAC guy. Now I realize
> >
> >Now realize you have to pumpdown or recover the 10.5 pounds of
refrigerant
> >FIRST.
> >
> >Everything isn't as easy as it seems to a homeowner.
> >
>
> He never said it was.
>
> Bill pointed out that this unit has a service valve, and thus
> can be pumped down. Changes shit a LOT, huh ? I mean for the tech
> quoting $ 1,100, not for the DIY'r.
Yes it can... but remember, the tech isn't hear to tell us his side of the
story. Could there be items or information that the homeowner is forgetting
or didn't understand? Sure could be...
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
9 lb costs him $ 182. if he trips that extra ounce over the
10 lb, the sticker goes up $ 100. Don't try to fuck with it, that's
$ 100 for pound $ # 10 and you know it.
>That equates to about 13.5 mins.
If you have put 9 lb in a system so far, and are topping up to
10 lb, that takes you 15 minutes ? You got issues, son.
Did EVERY pound you put in take you 15 minutes ? Did you take
TWO FUCKING HOURS to put a charge in that little bitch ?
Does putting in 10 lb instead of 5 take you OVER A FUCKING
HOUR EXTRA ?????
How the hell long does it take you to charge a little resi
system anyway ? Let's say from flat, you've done your repair and
pulled your vac. Are you saying it takes you AN HOUR OR MORE to
charge it ?????
>
>Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know it's only 10.5 pounds, but that isn't the way 'flat
>rate' works and you know it.
And 'flat rate' is a scam. It's a way to get EVERYONE to pay
more than they should. It's also an excuse for some asshole who
doesn't know how to run a business and price his work to blindly
follow someone else and deny all responsibility for his own pricing.
"I can't help it, that's what the flat rate book says !"
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:bu3d83tp0rhegko0u...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:04:58 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>> >news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
>> >
>> >> It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
>> >> service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable, in
>> >> fact. It is a COMMON failure point.
>> >
>> >
>> >Never lived in the northern part of the USA, Eh?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Only for 34 years. I was starting to get the hang of it, too.
>
>
>Then tell me how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10
>SEER, straight air conditioning systems?
A ) I doubt I could count how many calls I went on in 15 years
in the field. I'm pretty darned sure it's a bunch, though. Even at
only 4 calls a day ( ridiculous low number ), 5 days a week (
ridiculous low number ), that would be 15,000 calls.
B ) I never did little bullshit resi crap, except in those
situations where it was a favor to an owner of a business customer,
'some poor stray soul' etc, so I've probably only taken a few hundred
of them.
C ) If someone like Noony has never done any SERIOUS work,
doesn't know what a bad TXV is or how to fix it, then he shouldn't be
running his fucking mouth about what it costs.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Could be.
On that basis of logic, you can never say ANYTHING about
ANYTHING, because there ALWAYS 'could be another side'.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:6e5d839jm96r3pmek...@4ax.com...
It's called 'FLAT RATE'
> >That equates to about 13.5 mins.
>
> If you have put 9 lb in a system so far, and are topping up to
> 10 lb, that takes you 15 minutes ? You got issues, son.
You better look in the mirror... try to understand 'FLAT RATE'
> Did EVERY pound you put in take you 15 minutes ? Did you take
> TWO FUCKING HOURS to put a charge in that little bitch ?
>
> Does putting in 10 lb instead of 5 take you OVER A FUCKING
> HOUR EXTRA ?????
Now it's an hour instead of the $100 arguement?
Try to keep up and learn about FLAT RATE.
> How the hell long does it take you to charge a little resi
> system anyway ? Let's say from flat, you've done your repair and
> pulled your vac. Are you saying it takes you AN HOUR OR MORE to
> charge it ?????
Neither price includes an hours worth of installation. Did you not
understand the simple math I posted for you? I think it's time you back up
and look at the math.
> >Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know it's only 10.5 pounds, but that isn't the way
'flat
> >rate' works and you know it.
>
> And 'flat rate' is a scam. It's a way to get EVERYONE to pay
> more than they should. It's also an excuse for some asshole who
> doesn't know how to run a business and price his work to blindly
> follow someone else and deny all responsibility for his own pricing.
> "I can't help it, that's what the flat rate book says !"
Then we shouldn't be charging a flat rate for diagnosis/trip either, eh?
By your standards we should be charging by the 'foot' or 'inch' of travel
time and then start our stopwatch to make sure we don't accidentally charge
for an extra minute of service time.
BTW, my meal took 15 minutes less than the guy sitting next to me, yet we
paid the same price. Dammit, I want a discount. You need to look into what
'flat rate' means and just how many companies use this in our everyday
lives.
I'm starting to think Noonie is right... is it time for a refill?
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ct5d83hhuva6pdlgl...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:32:34 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >news:bu3d83tp0rhegko0u...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:04:58 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
> >> >
> >> >> It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
> >> >> service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable, in
> >> >> fact. It is a COMMON failure point.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Never lived in the northern part of the USA, Eh?
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Only for 34 years. I was starting to get the hang of it, too.
> >
> >
> >Then tell me how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10
> >SEER, straight air conditioning systems?
>
> A ) I doubt I could count how many calls I went on in 15 years
> in the field. I'm pretty darned sure it's a bunch, though. Even at
> only 4 calls a day ( ridiculous low number ), 5 days a week (
> ridiculous low number ), that would be 15,000 calls.
Ok, that's calls, not TXV calls...
> B ) I never did little bullshit resi crap, except in those
> situations where it was a favor to an owner of a business customer,
> 'some poor stray soul' etc, so I've probably only taken a few hundred
> of them.
So a few hundred resi calls, still no number for TXV's...
> C ) If someone like Noony has never done any SERIOUS work,
> doesn't know what a bad TXV is or how to fix it, then he shouldn't be
> running his fucking mouth about what it costs.
So if you've never done any SERIOUS resi-work, why are you commenting on the
pricing?
Especially, since you've been out of the service end of the business for how
long now?
Rates have gone up, up, up, and up... how many times since you've hung up
your gauges?
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:6e5d839jm96r3pmek...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:26:48 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>> >So the flat rate is 182 for 9 lbs.
>> >That's 9 * 15 = 135 and installation is 47 for a total of $182
>> >
>> >Flat rate for 10 pounds, which includes up to 14 lbs is...
>> >14 * 15 = 210 and installation is 72 for a total of $282
>> >
>> >Where is the extra $100? It's actually 72 - 47, which = $25
>>
>> 9 lb costs him $ 182. if he trips that extra ounce over the
>> 10 lb, the sticker goes up $ 100. Don't try to fuck with it, that's
>> $ 100 for pound $ # 10 and you know it.
>
>
>It's called 'FLAT RATE'
You dance as well as noony, and fall back on the same
religious 'you must have faith' argument when you get called on it,
too.
>
>
>> >That equates to about 13.5 mins.
>>
>> If you have put 9 lb in a system so far, and are topping up to
>> 10 lb, that takes you 15 minutes ? You got issues, son.
>
>
>You better look in the mirror... try to understand 'FLAT RATE'
Pyay on, pray on. Scream your faith loudly and often, and
hope you drown everyone else out when they point out that the Emperor
has no clothes.
>
>> Did EVERY pound you put in take you 15 minutes ? Did you take
>> TWO FUCKING HOURS to put a charge in that little bitch ?
>>
>> Does putting in 10 lb instead of 5 take you OVER A FUCKING
>> HOUR EXTRA ?????
>
>
>Now it's an hour instead of the $100 arguement?
>Try to keep up and learn about FLAT RATE.
You're being intentionally obtuse and thick, just like Noony.
No point arguing it with you any more.
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:kq3d83tv9m5r93i2p...@4ax.com...
If you want to try and prove me wrong, then get your happy ass out of your
trailer and come on down here and ride with me for a couple of days,
otherwise STFU
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:ct5d83hhuva6pdlgl...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:32:34 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>> >news:bu3d83tp0rhegko0u...@4ax.com...
>> >> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:04:58 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >> It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
>> >> >> service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable, in
>> >> >> fact. It is a COMMON failure point.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Never lived in the northern part of the USA, Eh?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Only for 34 years. I was starting to get the hang of it, too.
>> >
>> >
>> >Then tell me how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10
>> >SEER, straight air conditioning systems?
>>
>> A ) I doubt I could count how many calls I went on in 15 years
>> in the field. I'm pretty darned sure it's a bunch, though. Even at
>> only 4 calls a day ( ridiculous low number ), 5 days a week (
>> ridiculous low number ), that would be 15,000 calls.
>
>
>Ok, that's calls, not TXV calls...
So ?
>
>> B ) I never did little bullshit resi crap, except in those
>> situations where it was a favor to an owner of a business customer,
>> 'some poor stray soul' etc, so I've probably only taken a few hundred
>> of them.
>
>
>So a few hundred resi calls, still no number for TXV's...
You remember every call you've made in 15 years, and what the
diagnosis was ?
>
>
>> C ) If someone like Noony has never done any SERIOUS work,
>> doesn't know what a bad TXV is or how to fix it, then he shouldn't be
>> running his fucking mouth about what it costs.
>
>
>So if you've never done any SERIOUS resi-work, why are you commenting on the
>pricing?
I never said any such thing, and you now it. I said I've done
HUNDREDS of resi calls, although they were a small percentage of my
TOTAL.
Oh, BTW - a resi split is JUST A BIT SIMPLER than, oh, let's
say 12 paralleled Liebert chillers feeding CHW to mainframes, or the
deep freezers at blood banks, or flash freezers in packing houses, or
ultra-lows, or thermal shock chambers, or big centri's, etc etc etc.
I hardly think that little resi crap represents any kind of
'specialty equipment' that is tricky or complicated.
>Especially, since you've been out of the service end of the business for how
>long now?
Long enough to suit me :-)
>Rates have gone up, up, up, and up... how many times since you've hung up
>your gauges?
Irrelevant. I am not talking about 'yesterdays rates' for
ANYTHING, and you know it.
As YOU have agreed right here, as Noony has agreed right here,
$ 750 is 'reasonable' for a resi TXV change out ( if Noony knew how to
do one wihtout changing the whole evap ), based on new freon ( full
reclaim, recharge, etc ).
If you throw in 'service valve is there so you can pump down
the system' and 'flare connected TXV' ( no torch required, except
possibly for the new drier ), no ( or very minimal ) new freon
required, no reclaim needed, etc the price drops a LOT.
So, $ 1,100 remains RAPE. TODAY. At TODAY'S prices.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Blow me, resi-boi.
Maybe next week you'll get to work on something really BIG,
like a 4 ton.
Noon-Air
<kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote in message
news:b383f$46869eb8$9440c41e$17...@STARBAND.NET...
Its not worth the time to fuck with pj... he's just another ignorant asshole
that runs his mouth and doesn't have the balls to come see how its done in
the real world with the new high tech equipment. He has no clue about
pricing or what it takes to run a legitmate business. He has his mind made
up and cannot be confused with the facts.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:4t7d83hmthttua790...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 13:01:40 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >news:6e5d839jm96r3pmek...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:26:48 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >> >So the flat rate is 182 for 9 lbs.
> >> >That's 9 * 15 = 135 and installation is 47 for a total of $182
> >> >
> >> >Flat rate for 10 pounds, which includes up to 14 lbs is...
> >> >14 * 15 = 210 and installation is 72 for a total of $282
> >> >
> >> >Where is the extra $100? It's actually 72 - 47, which = $25
> >>
> >> 9 lb costs him $ 182. if he trips that extra ounce over the
> >> 10 lb, the sticker goes up $ 100. Don't try to fuck with it, that's
> >> $ 100 for pound $ # 10 and you know it.
> >
> >
> >It's called 'FLAT RATE'
>
> You dance as well as noony, and fall back on the same
> religious 'you must have faith' argument when you get called on it,
> too.
WTF does this have to do with religion/faith?????
> >> >That equates to about 13.5 mins.
> >>
> >> If you have put 9 lb in a system so far, and are topping up to
> >> 10 lb, that takes you 15 minutes ? You got issues, son.
> >
> >
> >You better look in the mirror... try to understand 'FLAT RATE'
>
> Pyay on, pray on. Scream your faith loudly and often, and
> hope you drown everyone else out when they point out that the Emperor
> has no clothes.
Faith? Pray... get a clue.
> >> Did EVERY pound you put in take you 15 minutes ? Did you take
> >> TWO FUCKING HOURS to put a charge in that little bitch ?
> >>
> >> Does putting in 10 lb instead of 5 take you OVER A FUCKING
> >> HOUR EXTRA ?????
> >
> >
> >Now it's an hour instead of the $100 arguement?
> >Try to keep up and learn about FLAT RATE.
>
> You're being intentionally obtuse and thick, just like Noony.
> No point arguing it with you any more.
No, I'm pointing out the facts.
Don't like it... hey, that's not my problem.
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:b48d8392fvmcq7kkq...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 13:19:26 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >news:ct5d83hhuva6pdlgl...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:32:34 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:bu3d83tp0rhegko0u...@4ax.com...
> >> >> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:04:58 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
> >> >> >> service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable,
in
> >> >> >> fact. It is a COMMON failure point.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Never lived in the northern part of the USA, Eh?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Only for 34 years. I was starting to get the hang of it, too.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Then tell me how many TXV's you come accross working on residential,
6-10
> >> >SEER, straight air conditioning systems?
> >>
> >> A ) I doubt I could count how many calls I went on in 15 years
> >> in the field. I'm pretty darned sure it's a bunch, though. Even at
> >> only 4 calls a day ( ridiculous low number ), 5 days a week (
> >> ridiculous low number ), that would be 15,000 calls.
> >
> >
> >Ok, that's calls, not TXV calls...
>
> So ?
So???
That's what the whole discussion is based on... did you forget?
> >> B ) I never did little bullshit resi crap, except in those
> >> situations where it was a favor to an owner of a business customer,
> >> 'some poor stray soul' etc, so I've probably only taken a few hundred
> >> of them.
> >
> >
> >So a few hundred resi calls, still no number for TXV's...
>
> You remember every call you've made in 15 years, and what the
> diagnosis was ?
I can remember approx. how many TXV's I have found to be faulty...
> >> C ) If someone like Noony has never done any SERIOUS work,
> >> doesn't know what a bad TXV is or how to fix it, then he shouldn't be
> >> running his fucking mouth about what it costs.
> >
> >
> >So if you've never done any SERIOUS resi-work, why are you commenting on
the
> >pricing?
>
> I never said any such thing, and you now it. I said I've done
> HUNDREDS of resi calls, although they were a small percentage of my
> TOTAL.
The question was...
"Then tell me how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10
SEER, straight air conditioning systems?"
Not
'how many calls'
'how many resi to commercial calls'
how many TXV's on commercial jobs'
But, 'how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10 SEER,
straight air conditioning systems?'
> Oh, BTW - a resi split is JUST A BIT SIMPLER than, oh, let's
> say 12 paralleled Liebert chillers feeding CHW to mainframes, or the
> deep freezers at blood banks, or flash freezers in packing houses, or
> ultra-lows, or thermal shock chambers, or big centri's, etc etc etc.
Was we dicussing this part? No
> I hardly think that little resi crap represents any kind of
> 'specialty equipment' that is tricky or complicated.
But it does beg the question of...
"how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10 SEER, straight
air conditioning systems?"
> >Especially, since you've been out of the service end of the business for
how
> >long now?
>
> Long enough to suit me :-)
>
> >Rates have gone up, up, up, and up... how many times since you've hung up
> >your gauges?
>
> Irrelevant. I am not talking about 'yesterdays rates' for
> ANYTHING, and you know it.
Then how is $47 for installation of 4-9 pounds, rape?
Or how is $72 for installation of 10-14 pounds, rape?
It's no and you know it.
> As YOU have agreed right here, as Noony has agreed right here,
> $ 750 is 'reasonable' for a resi TXV change out ( if Noony knew how to
> do one wihtout changing the whole evap ), based on new freon ( full
> reclaim, recharge, etc ).
I also stated, there might be reason's for the $1100 costs that haven't been
posted...
Can you verify that either way?
Noon-Air
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:dn8d835k2lrao4an5...@4ax.com...
I expected as much from you Paul. Your afraid that you might be proven
wrong. Too bad really. I guess you just can't handle real life, so you just
stay in your little trailer and play your little games. When you want to
come out and learn how its done in todays world, I would be more than happy
to teach you.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
You haven't been in the trade very long, I see. Or else you
just do little resi crap.
--
@usenet.com
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:no9d835i7ce8e0itc...@4ax.com...
Guess what, you're wrong on both accounts.
wa...@netzero.net
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available onlinehttp://pmilligan.net/palm/
OK, so this ought to be funny. So how much is an evac/recharge cost on
this system (let's say for grins that the system and lines will
require 12 pounds of r22). Seems like it would be a whole lot easier
if I just blew the charge (yea I know this should not be done), put in
the TXV, add a drier and call up a tech to evac/recharge with r22.
By the way, I was with the tech 100% of his time. He had no idea what
the problem with my system was(he told me that). He was on the phone
with 2 of his coworkers 80% of the time he was here (I have no problem
with discussing problems with coworkers, but in this case someone not
there made the diagnoses). One of them made the remote diagnoses of
the TXV being bad over the phone. The tech then told me his partner
said that was what the problem was and he should write up a quote for
me on replacing that part.
I do not want to start a flame war, but some of you guys act like this
residential stuff is rocket science. That is bullcrap. I am willing to
pay a fair buck for someone to do a job for me, but $1000 for a simple
part changeout in a line is ridiculous. That means that we are rapidly
reaching the point when there is a problem in the system, you just
replace it instead of fix it since its almost just as cheap (I know
that is not quite true now, but it could be soon). Yea, I know you
have to reclaim, but $1000?
The worst part of it is that I am not convinced that is the problem. I
asked the tech if I pay the $1100, that will guarantee to fix the
problem, right? He said no that there could be another problem they
have not diagnosed yet, and that would be additional money. That is
why they recommend I just replace the system instead of getting it
fixed. His exact words guys. Sounds like a we don't really know what
the problem is and let's scare the homeowner into a new system from us
and charge a high fee to swing him there. Fat chance... and fat chance
I'd ever touch another system from Lennox (this thing has been a
nightmare from the start).
Stormin Mormon
written, that's not the problem. I'm in western NY, but will be
driving through PA some time monday.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183211883.2...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
:
: Exactly. I can purchase the part for $116 (not the quoted
$416). The
: TXV is on a flared connection and is mounted on the return line
: outside of the air exchanger. If I had the part I could swap it
in 1/2
: hour and I am not an HVAC guy. Now I realize that the system
would
: have to be evaced and recharged, but cut me a break, $1000
seems a lot
: for that.
:
: Hey Bill where are you when I need a good HVAC guy! You'd have
my
: business.....
:
: Ken
:
wa...@netzero.net
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Please don't be in a hurry to buy a TXV. From what you've
> written, that's not the problem. I'm in western NY, but will be
> driving through PA some time monday.
>
> --
>
> Christopher A. Young
> You can't shout down a troll.
> You have to starve them.
> .
>
>
> news:1183211883.2...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> :
> : Exactly. I can purchase the part for $116 (not the quoted
> $416). The
> : TXV is on a flared connection and is mounted on the return line
> : outside of the air exchanger. If I had the part I could swap it
> in 1/2
> would
> : have to be evaced and recharged, but cut me a break, $1000
> seems a lot
> : for that.
> :
> my
> : business.....
> :
> : Ken
> :
Appreciate the offer Christopher, but I will not be around. I will be
traveling. And not being nasty, but I do not know you and usually do
not invite total strangers to my house. Again nothing personal, but I
do have a family to think about and we live in a crazy world!!!!
@usenet.com
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183230809.4...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> OK, so this ought to be funny. So how much is an evac/recharge cost on
> this system (let's say for grins that the system and lines will
> require 12 pounds of r22). Seems like it would be a whole lot easier
> if I just blew the charge (yea I know this should not be done), put in
> the TXV, add a drier and call up a tech to evac/recharge with r22.
First, you don't open up a drier to a system till you're ready to evacuate
it.
Secondly, it's easier to pump down the system.
> By the way, I was with the tech 100% of his time. He had no idea what
> the problem with my system was(he told me that). He was on the phone
> with 2 of his coworkers 80% of the time he was here (I have no problem
> with discussing problems with coworkers, but in this case someone not
> there made the diagnoses). One of them made the remote diagnoses of
> the TXV being bad over the phone. The tech then told me his partner
> said that was what the problem was and he should write up a quote for
> me on replacing that part.
Jeez-us... why in the hell didn't you say this in your first post????????
You need to call a company that can send out a COMPETENT tech to diagnose
the problem.
> I do not want to start a flame war, but some of you guys act like this
> residential stuff is rocket science. That is bullcrap. I am willing to
> pay a fair buck for someone to do a job for me, but $1000 for a simple
> part changeout in a line is ridiculous.
Again, coming from someone that doesn't understand OUR business or what it
takes to do the job correctly.
Don't try to tell me you do either, cause if you did, you wouldn't be
posting that it's easier to 'blow off' the refrigerate charge!!!!
> That means that we are rapidly
> reaching the point when there is a problem in the system, you just
> replace it instead of fix it since its almost just as cheap (I know
> that is not quite true now, but it could be soon). Yea, I know you
> have to reclaim, but $1000?
>
> The worst part of it is that I am not convinced that is the problem.
Now there's a smart conclusion!
> I asked the tech if I pay the $1100, that will guarantee to fix the
> problem, right? He said no that there could be another problem they
> have not diagnosed yet, and that would be additional money. That is
> why they recommend I just replace the system instead of getting it
> fixed. His exact words guys. Sounds like a we don't really know what
> the problem is and let's scare the homeowner into a new system from us
> and charge a high fee to swing him there. Fat chance... and fat chance
> I'd ever touch another system from Lennox (this thing has been a
> nightmare from the start).
First, it's not the equipment, it's the people that install and service it
that makes it a nightmare.
Secondly, you haven't had a competent tech diagnosis the real problem YET.
You best be getting a company that can send out a COMPETENT tech!
@usenet.com
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4686ac61$0$31211$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> Please don't be in a hurry to buy a TXV. From what you've
> written, that's not the problem. I'm in western NY, but will be
> driving through PA some time monday.
He's already had your bother out, he don't need another clueless hack!!!!
wa...@netzero.net
> <w...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1183230809.4...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > OK, so this ought to be funny. So how much is an evac/recharge cost on
> > this system (let's say for grins that the system and lines will
> > require 12 pounds of r22). Seems like it would be a whole lot easier
> > if I just blew the charge (yea I know this should not be done), put in
> > the TXV, add a drier and call up a tech to evac/recharge with r22.
>
> First, you don't open up a drier to a system till you're ready to evacuate
> it.
>
> Secondly, it's easier to pump down the system.
>
> > By the way, I was with the tech 100% of his time. He had no idea what
> > the problem with my system was(he told me that). He was on the phone
> > with 2 of his coworkers 80% of the time he was here (I have no problem
> > with discussing problems with coworkers, but in this case someone not
> > there made the diagnoses). One of them made the remote diagnoses of
> > the TXV being bad over the phone. The tech then told me his partner
> > said that was what the problem was and he should write up a quote for
> > me on replacing that part.
>
> Jeez-us... why in the hell didn't you say this in your first post????????
>
> You need to call a company that can send out a COMPETENT tech to diagnose
> the problem.
Yea and how do I go about doing that without spending $200 a pop until
I find one. Most of me neighbors use the company that came out to see
me.....
>
> > I do not want to start a flame war, but some of you guys act like this
> > residential stuff is rocket science. That is bullcrap. I am willing to
> > pay a fair buck for someone to do a job for me, but $1000 for a simple
> > part changeout in a line is ridiculous.
>
> Again, coming from someone that doesn't understand OUR business or what it
> takes to do the job correctly.
> Don't try to tell me you do either, cause if you did, you wouldn't be
> posting that it's easier to 'blow off' the refrigerate charge!!!!
>
You are correct, but I am betting with a little research I could
figure out what I need to do and do it. I bet I could even rent the
equipment (and get my 608 online to buy the r22). Point is, all I want
is a competent diagnoses and reasonable rate for doing the repair. Is
that too much to ask for? Come on all you techs out there, how do I
find a competent tech?
> > That means that we are rapidly
> > reaching the point when there is a problem in the system, you just
> > replace it instead of fix it since its almost just as cheap (I know
> > that is not quite true now, but it could be soon). Yea, I know you
> > have to reclaim, but $1000?
>
> > The worst part of it is that I am not convinced that is the problem.
>
> Now there's a smart conclusion!
Well duh.....
>
> > I asked the tech if I pay the $1100, that will guarantee to fix the
> > problem, right? He said no that there could be another problem they
> > have not diagnosed yet, and that would be additional money. That is
> > why they recommend I just replace the system instead of getting it
> > fixed. His exact words guys. Sounds like a we don't really know what
> > the problem is and let's scare the homeowner into a new system from us
> > and charge a high fee to swing him there. Fat chance... and fat chance
> > I'd ever touch another system from Lennox (this thing has been a
> > nightmare from the start).
>
> First, it's not the equipment, it's the people that install and service it
> that makes it a nightmare.
>
> Secondly, you haven't had a competent tech diagnosis the real problem YET.
>
> You best be getting a company that can send out a COMPETENT tech!
And as of yet, no one has told me how to do this. Is there a rating or
certificate I should be looking for? Certainly looking through the
yellow pages will not work!!!
@usenet.com
<wa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1183232308....@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> > You best be getting a company that can send out a COMPETENT tech!
>
> And as of yet, no one has told me how to do this. Is there a rating or
> certificate I should be looking for? Certainly looking through the
> yellow pages will not work!!!
Ya, it's called talking to your neighbors, relatives, co-workers, church
members, friends, etc..
Find out who they use and if they're happy with the services they receive.
Call a couple distributors and ask 'who they'd have service/repair their
personal unit'?
Most people will either tell you who to use or who not to use. After asking
a few people, you should get a pretty good idea of who to call next.
Bill
<kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> "Bill" <notint...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:46865ac6$0$4705$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
> > Noonie, flat rate isn't a license to steal.
>
>
> One thing about flat rate is that the client knows the charges up front
> BEFORE any work is done.
>
> It's up to them to decide whether the charges are reasonable or not.
>
> Your position basically states that someone charging $150/hr is stealing,
> even when the client knew before hand what the charges were.
Flat rating a coil instead of a TXV is stealing.
Bill
<kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:bu3d83tp0rhegko0u...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:04:58 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > ><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> > >news:sfsc83l56j15ttke3...@4ax.com...
> > >
> > >> It's ASTOUNDING to me that anyone can be in the business doign
> > >> service for 10 years and never run into a bad TXV. Unbelievable, in
> > >> fact. It is a COMMON failure point.
> > >
> > >
> > >Never lived in the northern part of the USA, Eh?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Only for 34 years. I was starting to get the hang of it, too.
>
>
> Then tell me how many TXV's you come accross working on residential, 6-10
> SEER, straight air conditioning systems?
Not everyone puts the cheap shit in.