carrier clo device
scott
Does anyone know exactly (or close) how the compressor lockout board on
Carrier units works? I've got a 48DPE that is giving me nuisance
lockouts...It's in series with the HPS, LPS, and FPT. (high, low
pressure, and freeze protection) all wwill work fine until the weekend,
then it trips on Friday afternoon or Monday morning...bummer..I hate it
when that happens...anyone else have ideas? (and no... Carrier reps
don't have a clue. Technical help consists of reading the manual back to
you.)
The manual simply says that those in-line devices or the logic (one leg
feeds thru a sensor loop on the device) will lock it out. I guess it's
for those who can't read that in the schematic...thanks
scott
paul milligan wrote:
>
> p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>
> > In the meantime, pin 3 has energised with 24 V relative to ground.
> >You will rarely see this pin used. It is so that you can have a 24V
> >alarm signal. Pin 3 energises only in the 'failure / lockout' mode.
>
> Damn ! My pizza was here, and I got to typing too fast ! 3 is the
> normal pass through for normal run, 'X' is the alarm that has 24V to
> ground in lock-out position !
>
> 3 is ALWAYS used, it must be. 'X' is rarely used. It's always either
> :
>
> Neither one ( no call for cooling )
> 3 is hot ( normal run )
> X is hot ( lock-out )
>
> Sorry !
>
> Paul
>
>
I gathered that x was for an alarm because that's what the wiring
diagram says...and I gather the rest too, again the wiring diagram
says...what I'm interested in specifically is the logic chip...What does
it sense? It has to sense current thru the wire to the sensor to get
the pot relay functioning, thus it can be for making sure the compressor
is running, but also can't it be overamps?? Two scenarios, #1. this leg
is out and no current is sensed...your scenario works by locking
out...#2. another leg fails this leg now draws too much amperage....my
scenario works by locking out....this is called the Hall effect and runs
most transistors and digital ammeters...my theroy is that I'm not
getting the proper phase syncs because there's construction in the area
and this unit only locks out on either a Friday or a Monday.....Or is
the unit sensing that it's close to Halloween?
paul milligan
scott <r.bu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Does anyone know exactly (or close) how the compressor lockout board on
>Carrier units works? I've got a 48DPE that is giving me nuisance
>lockouts...It's in series with the HPS, LPS, and FPT. (high, low
>pressure, and freeze protection) all wwill work fine until the weekend,
>then it trips on Friday afternoon or Monday morning...bummer..I hate it
>when that happens...anyone else have ideas? (and no... Carrier reps
>don't have a clue. Technical help consists of reading the manual back to
>you.)
Oh lordy, lordy, you've landed on one of my pet peeves :-)
Carrier's CLO - The Truth : Write this one down ! These are facts,
not rumours or guesses !
CLO stands for 'Compressor LockOut'. It is one of the most
misunderstood devices on any Carrier equipment. I don't know why,
it's not difficult, but it is often misunderstood.
It is what it says - a compressor lock out. It is NOT repeat *NOT* an
over-amperage safety, which many people think it is.
Here's how it works -
Pin 1 is ground. Or 'common, whatever you want to call it.
Pin 2 is incoming +24 Volt from Y1 ( or Y2 ) on a 'run' command from
the stat.
Pin 3 is outgoing +24 Volt.
Pin X is also outgoing +24 Volt ( as described below, inverted from
pin 3 ).
Pin one is hardwired to common, or ground. It never changes.
Pin 2 is ( either before or after, I forget ) in series with the high
and low pressure safeties, and the compressor contactor coil .
Operation :
On a call for cooling ( such as Y1 is energised by the thermostat, in
which case we are discussing CLO1, or Y2 is energized, thus CLO2 ) +24
Volts is applied through the series circuit of :
Transformer supplys +24 V
'R' of the stat
'Y1' of the stat
'13' or 'J1' ( I forget ) at that stupid little control terminal strip
( just a junction point )
The economizer relay, if present - ( closed = mechanical cooling )
back to 13 or J1 from the economizer ( whichever it didn't leave on
)
Pin 2 of the CLO,
Passed through the CLO to pin 3 of the CLO.
The low pressure safety
The high pressure safety
The contactor coil
( and of course back to common after the coil )
( again, please forgive if I have the sequence wrong, but it doesn't
matter, because it's a series ciruit )
In it's 'Normal' position, the CLO will pass the +24 coming in on pin
2 out to pin 3, then to the HP and LP and freezestat safeties, then to
the compressor contactor.
The little black box on the CLO board is a potential relay. It is
powered by the inductive loop, which you see as that shiny silver loop
that is part of the board, with ONE WIRE ONLY of the compressor power
leads passing through it.
Normal Operation :
On a call for cooling, the compressor runs. The potential relay is
energised by the current picked up inductively in that metal loop on
the board, and the 24 V control voltage is passed from pin 2 ( which
is fed by Y1 AKA 13/J1 ) to pin 3, then out to the HP and LP and
freezestat safeties, then to the compressor contactor, which is
energised. The current flowing through the compressor power lead that
goes through the inductive loop sensor energises the potential relay,
and maintains a contact from pin 2 to pin 3 of the CLO, allowing the
24 V from Y1 to pass through.
Failure mode Operation :
Break this circuit anywhere - HP, LP, whatever. Or, have a compressor
that is not pulling current through the leg that passes the inductive
sensor, and :
The CLO now sees a 24 volt potential between pins 1 and 2, but no
current to the compressor on the high voltage side .
The other components on the board look at this ( call for cooling, but
the compressor is not pulling any amps), and say 'hey, not good -
we're asking the compressor to run, but it's not running. Let's lock
out ! '
So, it locks out. The 24 V between 1 and 2 keeps it locked out, until
you reset it either by powering down the unit, or turning the call for
cooling off for a moment. Either way will break the 24 V between 1 &
2, and release the lockout.
In the meantime, pin 3 has energised with 24 V relative to ground.
You will rarely see this pin used. It is so that you can have a 24V
alarm signal. Pin 3 energises only in the 'failure / lockout' mode.
The CLO is NOT an over-amperage device, and that's simple to prove.
How can you have overamperage protection on a three phase motor by
sensing only one leg ? You can't ! What if the leg you're sensing
were the one with no voltage, and thus no current ? The other two
legs would be pulling LRA, and you'd never know it ! So, the CLO
obviously CAN NOT BE an over-amperage device.
Anyone who argues with this one is wrong, and I challenge them to
stand up here and state their case. I've had this argument so may
times, I can't even count. I am right on this one. Not bragging,
just right on this one.
>The manual simply says that those in-line devices or the logic (one leg
>feeds thru a sensor loop on the device) will lock it out. I guess it's
>for those who can't read that in the schematic...thanks
I hope this explanation helps - if not PLEASE say so ! Please ask,
I'd be GLAD to explain ! It just irritates me - it's such a simple
little device, and I bet over 1/2 of all service techs don't have clue
one as to how it works. It ain't got but 4 wires ( 5 if you use 'X'
), and it's really simple ! :-)
The reason it trips is that either the HP, LP, or freesztat has
tripped, and the CLO is there to prevent short-cycling on those
controls. If it's locked out on CLO, it's either gone off on HP, LP,
or freezestat, you need to look to those thing for reasons. The CLO
has done it's job, and is not the problem in itself.
Thanks for asking this one ! :-)
Paul
paul milligan
p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
> In the meantime, pin 3 has energised with 24 V relative to ground.
>You will rarely see this pin used. It is so that you can have a 24V
>alarm signal. Pin 3 energises only in the 'failure / lockout' mode.
Damn ! My pizza was here, and I got to typing too fast ! 3 is the
paul milligan
scott <r.bu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I gathered that x was for an alarm because that's what the wiring
>diagram says...and I gather the rest too, again the wiring diagram
>says...what I'm interested in specifically is the logic chip...What does
>it sense?
I don't have one in front of me, but I don't recall any chip - the
black box is a relay ( which I mistakenly referred to as a potential
relay, of course it's a current relay ), and I remember a few
resistors, etc, but I don't recall an IC. Not that they might not
have started using one recently. It would only be to maintain the
lockout if they did.
> It has to sense current thru the wire to the sensor to get
>the pot relay functioning, thus it can be for making sure the compressor
>is running, but also can't it be overamps??
Nope.
Two scenarios, #1. this leg
>is out and no current is sensed...your scenario works by locking
>out...#2. another leg fails this leg now draws too much amperage....my
>scenario works by locking out
What is your theory about it sensing over-amps ? I missed something
here... Certainly you can use a calibrated inductive pickup to sense
overamps, and you could trip alarms, lockout units, etc, with that
data ( it would need a time delay in that logic to allow for LRA on
start up, but not during run ), but this little board just isn't that
sophisticated.
Look at it this way - there is only one Carrier CLO. It's used in
units from small to large. In the 'nocurrent = lockout' situation,
this makes sense. 0 = 0 , no matter what. But, look at a 'sense
overamps' scenario - first, what are we going to call 'overamp' ?
something greater than RLA, less than LRA ( I hope ), somewhere in
between. Now look at a 3 ton unit and a 15 ton unit, and compare the
amps that is acceptable for one vs what would be acceptable for the
other. Major difference. How could one board deal with both ? There
would have to be specific boards for specific tonnages, and there are
not. There is only one part number.
>....this is called the Hall effect and runs
>most transistors and digital ammeters...my theroy is that I'm not
>getting the proper phase syncs because there's construction in the area
>and this unit only locks out on either a Friday or a Monday.....
The thing to probably look for here is week-end setbacks, or other
schdeuled kinds of things, that ( likely ) drive the unit off on LP.
Setback schedules not set up right, maybe dampers that close on a
timer, etc.
A thermostat that is set way too low might keep the unit running
constantly during the week, and there might be enough load in the
building to avoid LP trip, and then on the week-end, with no inside
load, it can get cold enough to trip LP or freezstat ? Just a
thought.
also, this time of year ( depending on where you are ) we start
getting some cool nights, and lots of LP trips because of it.
You might try putting a 'tattletail' on the LP, HP, and freezstat for
a weekend, to find out which one is tripping. My guess would be LP.
Second guess - freezstat
Or is
>the unit sensing that it's close to Halloween?
No, that would be Carriers AHES system.
All Hallows Eve Sensor :-)
Paul
scott
All the above problems have been ruled out, I wound up swapping boards
between the two identical units to see if the problem moves...I suspect
a bad board then...If this thing has no overamp protection, then the
construction going on nearby won't affect the PG&E lines, the only thing
left is a bad board.....we'll see what the swap does....let you know
what happens...
nojmail
p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>scott <r.bu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Operation :
> Normal Operation :
> Failure mode Operation :
>Paul
>
One thing not mentioned in this Is, instead of the compressor lead
ruoted thruogh the current sensor of the clo some units route the lead
from the crank case heater this also has several loops for the low
amperage pulled by the heater.
thats all folks
paul milligan
noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>One thing not mentioned in this Is, instead of the compressor lead
>ruoted thruogh the current sensor of the clo some units route the lead
>from the crank case heater this also has several loops for the low
>amperage pulled by the heater.
What ???? I'm screaming here !!!! WHAT !!!!????? NO, NO, NO !!!!
Name one ! Name just one Carrier unit that tries to sense compressor
amps via the crankcase heater and the CLO ?
That's insane ! You're trying to suggest that "several loops" of a
crankcase heater somehow generate the amperage of a 10 ton compressor
? I don't care if you take 10 loops, it still doesn't come close !
Yeh, I guess I didn't mention your point for one basic reason - it's
totally wrong.
Paul
nojmail
p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>>One thing not mentioned in this Is, instead of the compressor lead
>>ruoted thruogh the current sensor of the clo some units route the lead
>>from the crank case heater this also has several loops for the low
>>amperage pulled by the heater.
> What ???? I'm screaming here !!!! WHAT !!!!????? NO, NO, NO !!!!
> Name one ! Name just one Carrier unit that tries to sense compressor
>amps via the crankcase heater and the CLO ?
> That's insane ! You're trying to suggest that "several loops" of a
>crankcase heater somehow generate the amperage of a 10 ton compressor
>? I don't care if you take 10 loops, it still doesn't come close !
> Yeh, I guess I didn't mention your point for one basic reason - it's
>totally wrong.
>Paul
>
Paul please read the reply *before* you insert your foot in your
mouth. I did not say that it sensed compressor current just PROVED THE
CCH WORKED AS A SAFTEY! and as for me being wrong in this ask carrier
if they laugh at your ingnorance look at a wiring diagram.
nojmail
noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>>>One thing not mentioned in this Is, instead of the compressor lead
>>>ruoted thruogh the current sensor of the clo some units route the lead
>>>from the crank case heater this also has several loops for the low
>>>amperage pulled by the heater.
>> What ???? I'm screaming here !!!! WHAT !!!!????? NO, NO, NO !!!!
>> Name one ! Name just one Carrier unit that tries to sense compressor
>>amps via the crankcase heater and the CLO ?
>> That's insane ! You're trying to suggest that "several loops" of a
>>crankcase heater somehow generate the amperage of a 10 ton compressor
>>? I don't care if you take 10 loops, it still doesn't come close !
>> Yeh, I guess I didn't mention your point for one basic reason - it's
>>totally wrong.
>>Paul
>>
>Paul please read the reply *before* you insert your foot in your
>mouth. I did not say that it sensed compressor current just PROVED THE
>CCH WORKED AS A SAFTEY! and as for me being wrong in this ask carrier
>if they laugh at your ingnorance look at a wiring diagram.
You know Paul the more I thought about this the madder I became . Tell
me something in your "vast experince" as an arogent ass do you often
call people insane ? I hope your not in the education part of this
trade (unless of course you teach how to be an ass 101) because you
surley have a closed mind and limited information. And as for the
other readers of this thread QUESTION anything tis person tells you.
paul milligan
noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
This is what you wrote. It is the exact quote. It is 100 % wrong.
>>>One thing not mentioned in this Is, instead of the compressor lead
>>>ruoted thruogh the current sensor of the clo some units route the lead
Go read your own words again. You said 'INSTEAD OF THE COMPRESSOR
LEAD...." etc. I didn't say it, you said. It is wrong. Which part
of 'wrong' do you not understand ?
>Paul please read the reply *before* you insert your foot in your
>mouth. I did not say that it sensed compressor current just PROVED THE
>CCH WORKED AS A SAFTEY! and as for me being wrong in this ask carrier
>if they laugh at your ingnorance look at a wiring diagram.
Give me a model number of the unit where they use the CCH wire
"instead of the compressor lead ruoted thruogh the current sensor ",
which is what you said, word for word, miss-spelling and all.
You wouldn't like the place my foot SHOULD be inserted regarding your
misinformation.
Paul
paul milligan
noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>You know Paul the more I thought about this the madder I became . Tell
>me something in your "vast experince" as an arogent ass do you often
>call people insane ?
If the shoes fits.....BTW, I didn't call YOU insane - I don't know you
that well. I did call your STATEMENT insane, which it is, in the
sense of 'bearing no relation to reality'.
> I hope your not in the education part of this
>trade (unless of course you teach how to be an ass 101) because you
>surley have a closed mind and limited information. And as for the
>other readers of this thread QUESTION anything tis person tells you.
I'm still waiting for the model number of the Carrier unit that, as
you put it, " instead of the compressor lead ruoted thruogh the
current sensor of the clo some units route the lead from the crank
case heater"
You said it routes the CCH lead through the ( listen closely here )
COMPRESSOR LOCK OUT ( that is what CLO stands for ) INSTEAD OF
the compressor lead. This is wrong. You can not supply the model
number of the unit, because it does not exist.
Refusing to accept wrong information from people like you is not my
definition of 'close minded'. Maybe it's yours.
BTW, why do you post anonymously ? What exactly are you hiding ? WHy
not give a name and an email address in your posts, like I do, and
like everyone else does ? Hmmmm?????? I would prefer to give you
this little education via email, but you don't give anyone an address
to write to.
Paul
nojmail
p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>>You know Paul the more I thought about this the madder I became . Tell
>>me something in your "vast experince" as an arogent ass do you often
>>call people insane ?
> If the shoes fits.....BTW, I didn't call YOU insane - I don't know you
>that well. I did call your STATEMENT insane, which it is, in the
>sense of 'bearing no relation to reality'.
>> I hope your not in the education part of this
>>trade (unless of course you teach how to be an ass 101) because you
>>surley have a closed mind and limited information. And as for the
>>other readers of this thread QUESTION anything tis person tells you.
> I'm still waiting for the model number of the Carrier unit that, as
>you put it, " instead of the compressor lead ruoted thruogh the
>current sensor of the clo some units route the lead from the crank
>case heater"
Do your own homework I dont have time you educate you.
> You said it routes the CCH lead through the ( listen closely here )
>COMPRESSOR LOCK OUT ( that is what CLO stands for ) INSTEAD OF
> the compressor lead. This is wrong. You can not supply the model
>number of the unit, because it does not exist.
Wrong again dodo see above DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK
> Refusing to accept wrong information from people like you is not my
>definition of 'close minded'. Maybe it's yours.
My information is correct I suggest you do your homework before you
put your foot further in your mouth
> BTW, why do you post anonymously ? What exactly are you hiding ? WHy
>not give a name and an email address in your posts, like I do, and
>like everyone else does ? Hmmmm?????? I would prefer to give you
>this little education via email, but you don't give anyone an address
>to write to.
If you can read headers you know where I post from I dont care for the
unwanted junk mail from bots again do your own homework!
>Paul ( usenets #1 ass)
>
nojmail
p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>>You know Paul the more I thought about this the madder I became . Tell
>>me something in your "vast experince" as an arogent ass do you often
>>call people insane ?
>> I hope your not in the education part of this
>>trade (unless of course you teach how to be an ass 101) because you
>>surley have a closed mind and limited information. And as for the
>>other readers of this thread QUESTION anything tis person tells you.
> I'm still waiting for the model number of the Carrier unit that, as
>you put it, " instead of the compressor lead ruoted thruogh the
>current sensor of the clo some units route the lead from the crank
>case heater"
> You said it routes the CCH lead through the ( listen closely here )
>COMPRESSOR LOCK OUT ( that is what CLO stands for ) INSTEAD OF
> the compressor lead. This is wrong. You can not supply the model
>number of the unit, because it does not exist.
>
> BTW, why do you post anonymously ? What exactly are you hiding ? WHy
>not give a name and an email address in your posts, like I do, and
>like everyone else does ? Hmmmm?????? I would prefer to give you
>this little education via email, but you don't give anyone an address
>to write to.
>Paul
>
Why not post it to the group afraid to be shown full of shit?
nojmail
p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>
>
I would prefer to give you
this little education via email, but you don't give anyone an address
>to write to.
>Paul
>
I doubt that you could give more than a little education being that
you have not checked the information.
As far as the model number of the units that use the clo to monitor
the cch I dont have them handy but be sure they are there.
I have personaly worked with them, O and by the way I make a *VERY
GOOD LIVING* in the HVAC trade also, I instruct in the trade so as far
as I'm concerned you can spew anything you like but it does not change
the facts. My reply to your post did not intend to correct your
information but to add to it. After all you can't tell ME you know
everything? We both know better dont we.
As for the proof you want I will assertain the correct model #s and
post them for the group, at that time If you have any B***s at all you
will apoligize for your stupid comments.
O and by the way forged cancels of articles are frowned upon if nor
ilagianst the law for your future referance.
As far as your email education dont ever send email to me it will
result in my posting it to the group and also to your service
provider. not to mention your employer. And on that note I work for
one of the largest HVAC contractors in the US and am responsible for
training materials so I bet you Know what products we wont be using.
paul milligan
noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>As far as your email education dont ever send email to me it will
>result in my posting it to the group and also to your service
>provider. not to mention your employer. And on that note I work for
>one of the largest HVAC contractors in the US and am responsible for
>training materials so I bet you Know what products we wont be using.
No, actually, I don't know whose products you won't be using. WHy
don't you go ahead and tell us ? ( snicker ) I also don't know where
you pretended to learn English, but you really oughta go back for some
refreshers, both in spelling and grammar.
Good LORD, you're an asshole !! I've seen some screamers in this
group over time, but I think you may take the cake. You're going to
email MY EMPLOYER ???? BWAHAHAHAHA - ROTFL !!!!
You go right ahead and email my ISP - I'm real worried about it.
I'm out of this thread - I don't have the patience to deal with 15
year olds.
Paul
David Creel
paul milligan wrote:
>
> noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>
> >You know Paul the more I thought about this the madder I became . Tell
> >me something in your "vast experince" as an arogent ass do you often
> >call people insane ?
>
> that well. I did call your STATEMENT insane, which it is, in the
> sense of 'bearing no relation to reality'.
>
> >trade (unless of course you teach how to be an ass 101) because you
> >surley have a closed mind and limited information. And as for the
> >other readers of this thread QUESTION anything tis person tells you.
>
> I'm still waiting for the model number of the Carrier unit that, as
> current sensor of the clo some units route the lead from the crank
> case heater"
>
> COMPRESSOR LOCK OUT ( that is what CLO stands for ) INSTEAD OF
> the compressor lead. This is wrong. You can not supply the model
> number of the unit, because it does not exist.
>
> definition of 'close minded'. Maybe it's yours.
>
> not give a name and an email address in your posts, like I do, and
> this little education via email, but you don't give anyone an address
> to write to.
>
> Paul
a heat pump with a semi, I have worked on them many times, it is used to
prevent the compressor from running in case the crank case heater fails.
I just checked and could not find a model # but it does exist and you
know what happens if a CCH fails in the winter on a heat pump.
paul milligan
David Creel <dcr...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>> Paul
>> Paul, Carrier does make a unit with a CLO on the crankcase heater. It is
>a heat pump with a semi, I have worked on them many times, it is used to
>prevent the compressor from running in case the crank case heater fails.
>I just checked and could not find a model # but it does exist and you
>know what happens if a CCH fails in the winter on a heat pump.
I don't doubt that, but did they call it 'CLO' ? With Carrier, that's
a very specific designation of a certain part, not a generic
description of the function. All of my comments were directed towards
the very specific way that Carrier applies 'CLO' as a part name, which
is what the original poster asked about, not towards other safeties.
Paul
Marc L O'Brien
In article <520f01$k...@camel0.mindspring.com>, paul milligan (p...@pobox.com) writes:
The Carrier 19D series centrifs all use the same capacity
control module and CT. The CT tails are shorted with decreasing
resister values the bigger the motors get.
>>....this is called the Hall effect and runs
>>most transistors and digital ammeters...my theroy is that I'm not
>>getting the proper phase syncs because there's construction in the area
>>and this unit only locks out on either a Friday or a Monday.....
>
> The thing to probably look for here is week-end setbacks, or other
>schdeuled kinds of things, that ( likely ) drive the unit off on LP.
>Setback schedules not set up right, maybe dampers that close on a
>timer, etc.
>
> A thermostat that is set way too low might keep the unit running
>constantly during the week, and there might be enough load in the
>building to avoid LP trip, and then on the week-end, with no inside
>load, it can get cold enough to trip LP or freezstat ? Just a
>thought.
>
> also, this time of year ( depending on where you are ) we start
>getting some cool nights, and lots of LP trips because of it.
Pump-down LP cut-in set-point should be lower than the
coldest temperature your suction side is going to experience.
Situation the other day.... someone installed an in-line time
delay on a freezer room compressor contactor coil. Stat opens LLSV,
pressure closes LP contact and then the timer waits..waits..and
waits. By the time the compressor starts, the quantity of liquid
boiling at the bulb point causes rapid TEV closure and then another
LP induced cycle then again another timer cycle and so on until the
room gets warm enough to hold suction pressure while the evaporator
empties. Room temp drops to normal but only until the next on
cycle.
> You might try putting a 'tattletail' on the LP, HP, and freezstat for
>a weekend, to find out which one is tripping. My guess would be LP.
>Second guess - freezstat
...then go for a time delay across the LP keeping the circuit
closed for a few minutes on start up...
...btw Paul, I think it's you that's won :-)
Marc O'Brien
Industrial Refrigeration Mechanic.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/marc_vicky
Go Springbok!!
nojun...@blabla.net
p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>>p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>>>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
> This is what you wrote. It is the exact quote. It is 100 % wrong.
>
>>>>One thing not mentioned in this Is, instead of the compressor lead
>>>>ruoted thruogh the current sensor of the clo some units route the lead
> Go read your own words again. You said 'INSTEAD OF THE COMPRESSOR
>LEAD...." etc. I didn't say it, you said. It is wrong. Which part
>of 'wrong' do you not understand ?
>>Paul please read the reply *before* you insert your foot in your
>>mouth. I did not say that it sensed compressor current just PROVED THE
>>CCH WORKED AS A SAFTEY! and as for me being wrong in this ask carrier
>>if they laugh at your ingnorance look at a wiring diagram.
> Give me a model number of the unit where they use the CCH wire
>"instead of the compressor lead ruoted thruogh the current sensor ",
>which is what you said, word for word, miss-spelling and all.
> You wouldn't like the place my foot SHOULD be inserted regarding your
>misinformation.
>Paul
Wow your threats scaaaare me so paul. and still your wrong. by the way
go on a diet your too fat at 325. Still wont give up on your lies
funny. how does crow taste paul. hahahahahahaha
roger
> I gathered that x was for an alarm because that's what the wiring
> diagram says...and I gather the rest too, again the wiring diagram
> says...what I'm interested in specifically is the logic chip...What does
> the pot relay functioning, thus it can be for making sure the compressor
> is running, but also can't it be overamps??
The CLO isn't used for over current protection. A VERY high locked
rotor current might overload the rest the circuitry, but the damage
would probably be permanent. The EXACT same part number is used on 1.5
to 30 hp compressors, 208 to 575 volt, single and three phase systems.
The difference is enough that the locked rotor current on the small
units is less than the normal run amps on the large units. To find out
which control is tripping, buy some in-line fuse holders and 1/10 amp
fuses. Wire the fuses in parallel with the safety controls. When a
safety opens, its associated fuse will blow due to the contactor coil
current, while the other stay good. If no fuse blows, the problem is a
defective/intermittant CLO or an the internal protector on the
compressor opened (for those compressors where the thermal protection is
the internal line-break type).
paul milligan
mlob...@fridgemech.win-uk.net (Marc L O'Brien) wrote:
> Pump-down LP cut-in set-point should be lower than the
>coldest temperature your suction side is going to experience.
Yup. And a fair margin below that, actually, if possible, to prevent
short little 'catch up with the pump-down' cycles after entering a
pump-down shutoff period.
> Situation the other day.... someone installed an in-line time
>delay on a freezer room compressor contactor coil. Stat opens LLSV,
>pressure closes LP contact and then the timer waits..waits..and
>waits.
Ouch ! Can you say 'new compressor soon' ? :-(
> ...then go for a time delay across the LP keeping the circuit
>closed for a few minutes on start up...
Yup- common on pump-downs that run in low ambient. Liebert calls
theirs a 'low ambient kit', when it's actually just a timer - bypasses
the LP for three minutes on start up.
> ...btw Paul, I think it's you that's won :-)
Being right can be so stressful sometimes :-) I do get a laugh out
his anonymous 'na-na-na' crap... he should really take it to
alt.junior.high. Oh, well....he'll get bored and go play somewhere
else soon.
Paul
David Creel
lock out) but it is the same part # as a normal CLO. This seems a little
off track of the orginal post, take care.
paul milligan
David Creel <dcr...@erols.com> wrote:
>Paul, you are right, I don't think Carrier calls it a CLO (compressor
>lock out) but it is the same part # as a normal CLO. This seems a little
>off track of the orginal post, take care.
Yup, and thanks. Of course, I was responding very specifically to a
very specific question about a part called a certain name, 'CLO', by a
certain company, Carrier, because that is what the poster asked, not
the general applications of safeties that implement compressor lockout
in all the various ways that is done, and for all the various system
reasons.
Paul
scott
paul milligan wrote:
>
> noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>
> >p...@pobox.com (paul milligan) wrote:
>
> >>noj...@email.net (nojmail) wrote:
>
> This is what you wrote. It is the exact quote. It is 100 % wrong.
>
> >>>ruoted thruogh the current sensor of the clo some units route the lead
>
> LEAD...." etc. I didn't say it, you said. It is wrong. Which part
> of 'wrong' do you not understand ?
>
> >Paul please read the reply *before* you insert your foot in your
> >mouth. I did not say that it sensed compressor current just PROVED THE
> >CCH WORKED AS A SAFTEY! and as for me being wrong in this ask carrier
> >if they laugh at your ingnorance look at a wiring diagram.
>
> Give me a model number of the unit where they use the CCH wire
> "instead of the compressor lead ruoted thruogh the current sensor ",
> which is what you said, word for word, miss-spelling and all.
>
> You wouldn't like the place my foot SHOULD be inserted regarding your
> misinformation.
>
> Paul
It was such a simple question that started this mess!!! My thanks to all
who gave info that makes sense to me...I'll try to let you know the
outcome....Scott
Matt Martin
Here people, this link will show and explain how the CLO board operates!!!!