Wired my Aprilaire model 60; Furnance Always On?!?
Martinic
older Lennox furnace. The furnace now turns on, no matter what the
thermostat setting.
It has something to do with the "C" connection: if I remove the "C"
wire from the Aprilaire control (which is connected to "C" on
furnace), no problem. As soon as i connect the "C" wire back, furnace
turns on--even if thermostat is set to "system off".
I double-checked it all. Humidifier runs as per Test cycle. I
installed Aprilaire humidifiers in the past no problem. What is going
on?!???
Thank you,
Dan
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Martinic" <purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:74abd50c-d5e4-4d33...@k18g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
Martinic
over; the wiring diagram from the box is so clear and simple:
Between Model 60 controller and Furnace:
R goes to R
C goes to C
W goes to W
Gf goes to G on furnace
G from thermostat goes to G on humidistat
OMG it's exactly like that.
10 years ago i installed 5 Model 500s for friends, a Fanhandler, and
an air exchange. You guys helped me out. They all still work
perfect.
I am not a first timer.
I am going nuts tonight. Please help.
:Dan
Steve
"Martinic" <purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:74abd50c-d5e4-4d33...@k18g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
your installer is an idiot.
Martinic
I am the installer. I am not an idiot--i swear it. But i am missing
something, obviously don't have the experience for this situation, and
need someone to point out what's obvious.
The Lennox furnace is really old, and the terminal strip is located
outside the unit sticking out of a box labelled Honeywell. It buzzes,
but the buzz goes away after i connect the "C" from the humidistat.
Everything was working fine before i connected the new humidifier
control (as per directions). It's not my house btw.
Thank you,
Dan
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>There's no way it's wrong.
OK, then it must be working perfectly :-)
That time ten years ago - did you pay your minion dues ? I
don't recall getting your check.
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Martinic
saying that the original furnace is installed incorrectly? I have
this feeling that there's a problem with the ground or whatever the
"C" is for.
Dan
Martinic
> OK, then it must be working perfectly :-)
It's wired correctly; there must be something wrong with:
a. older furnace needing different directions with new humidifier
control?
b. something wrong with the old furnace's control / wiring (the
terminal strip / box buzzes)?
c. incorrectly wired from the begining?
No--i didn't pay the dues. But i thanked profusely :)
:Dan
Tony Hwang
Hi,
Are you sure it is model 60? Mot 600? I notice your email add. shows you
are in Canada. I am in Calgary. G is furnace fan control lead, C is 24V
AC control voltage common lead, W is heat control lead, R is 24V AC
control vltage lead. Remember humidifier comes on only when furnace
comes on and fan is running. Wonder if you left out humidistat? What is
your thermostat?
Stormin Mormon
can't remember the wiring inside the box very well. In any
case, from memory. Ideally, the AA needs a 24 volt signal
when both the call for heat (and only heat, not call for
cooling) and the fan is on. That 24 VAC signal goes to the
humidistat, to the water valve.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Martinic" <purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:d583482a-b102-4011...@d17g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Steve.. i meant that i am the one installing the humidifier.
I'm pretty sure he understood that ;-)
>Are you
>saying that the original furnace is installed incorrectly?
No, he said you're an idiot :-)
>I have
>this feeling that there's a problem with the ground or whatever the
>"C" is for.
>
>Dan
--
The Daring Dufas
On some systems I've seen control voltage back-feed through the
thermostat "G" connection and cause weird problems. If the system
works fine without the new gadget, you my have to pick up a relay
from your local supply house to isolate the control circuits from
each other. I would check to see if "C" is the chassis ground like
on many systems. Hook your DMM between the furnace cabinet and the
humidifier chassis to see if you get a voltage reading when it's
misbehaving. Google "Aprilaire Isolation Relay for General Purpose
Use" You will find a lot of information.
http://www.shopwiki.com/Aprilaire+relay
TDD
Martinic
wrote:
Thanks guys.. i am done with it tonight. Going to continue research
tomorrow and will follow your lead TDD. Argh. I hate it when things
don't work like they're supposed to.... Good Night.
Dan
Steve
<.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:33k9k6p1u3hkhp0j3...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 18:07:25 -0800 (PST), Martinic
> <purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>>Steve.. i meant that i am the one installing the humidifier.
>
> I'm pretty sure he understood that ;-)
>
>
>>Are you
>>saying that the original furnace is installed incorrectly?
>
> No, he said you're an idiot :-)
>
>
>>I have
>>this feeling that there's a problem with the ground or whatever the
>>"C" is for.
>>
>>Dan
It appears that the idiot installer has wired the controls incorrectly.
If the furnace board doesn't have a "HUM" terminal, then it probably falls
into the "Jurassic" catagory and needs to be updated/upgraded and or
replaced anyway.
Either way, it helps a lot to *READ* the installation instructions for the
furnace, dehumidifier, and controls with specific attention to the control
wiring and setup.
Oscar_Lives
"Martinic" wrote in message
news:74abd50c-d5e4-4d33...@k18g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
Hi.. i wired my new Aprilaire humidifier exactly as directed to an
Thank you,
Dan
Sounds like you fucked something up.
Internet is your friend:
http://www.aprilaire.com/index.php?znfAction=OurDealer
Stormin Mormon
(plural of furnace) with very creative wiring.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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"Steve" <jste...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ii4h7p$saj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Martinic
Nope. The diagram supplied by Aprilaire is very clear and simple.
It's a very old furnace but the terminals are all labelled exactly as
Aprilaire's diagram suggests.
There is no "hum" terminal and Aprilaire does not show any hook for
one.
It all works well: the humidifier turns on, the humidistat reads
normal, except the damn furnance won't stop! Even if you set
thermostat to "System Off"! Only by removing the "C" connection does
furnace go back to normal behaviour (but humidifier turns off).
The Aprilaire instructions clearly call for humidistat to be connected
to "C" on furnace.
Dan
Martinic
Sorry: it's the Model 500 with the new Model #60 humidistat
controller.
Dan
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
What about if you disconnect the humidistat ?
Martinic
If I disconnect the humidistat, the furnace works fine. If i wire up
all the connections for the humidistat except for the "C", the furnace
works fine (but humidistat not yet).
As soon as i even touch the "C" wire from the humidistat to the "C"
terminal on the furnace, the furnace starts up right away. Obviously,
it's not supposed to.
The humidifier then works fine though.
Why is the furnace turning on as soon as the "C" is connected between
the humidistat and the furnace?????
Dan
Martinic
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Inductive pickup helps. I've wired some prehistoric furnae
> (plural of furnace) with very creative wiring.
Are you talking about the Aprilaire Model 50 current-sensing relay? I
suppose i could buy that and install it, but the humidistat that comes
with the humidifier already has a function to humidify even if no heat
and besides, it's *supposed* to work! This is a very simple hook-up;
i think it has to be a simple problem too.
I want it to work like it's supposed to!! :)
:Dan
Martinic
Hi.. not sure what you mean by "hook up DMM between furnace cabinet
and humidifier chassis"--do you mean to actually touch the DMM leads
to the cabinet sheet metal of the furnace? The humidifier is plastic--
what would i touch the lead to?
Thank you,
Dan
Steve
Dan
Something is *NOT* wired right.... It could be *in* the furnace, it could be
*in* the humidifier(factory mis-wired)
it could be something is hosed up in either/and/or the thermostat or
humidfier control. there could be a short inside of the control wires
too..... If you have a digital thermostat, it could be that its not
configured correctly. The list goes on and on....
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> � � � � What about if you disconnect the humidistat ?
Ummm...... because the humidistat is calling for humidity,
and causing it to ? Either that, or fucking ghosts.
You need an isolation relay, if you want to change the
sequence of operation.
The Daring Dufas
I meant any metal chassis, There could be a metal chassis inside the
plastic case, if not, don't worry about it. :-)
TDD
Stormin Mormon
is wired wrong. I'm not sure why when you hook up the W. Of
course, might be better if I was there to follow the wiring
in person.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Martinic" <purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:96451347-23f6-4016...@b8g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
Martinic
> "Martinic" <puromas...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
Is it correct to assume that since everything worked fine before i
installed the humidifier, then the furnace and thermostat are free of
error?
I've been doing some more research: W deals with the signal to heat,
is that right? Therefore, can i assume that for some reason the
humidistat is energizing W when it's not supposed to be? This model
#60 humidistat has the ability to control the blower but it's not
supposed to call for heat.
I can measure W across C to see if there's voltage when i hook up C to
humidistat, right?
Thank you,
Dan
Martinic
> Something is *NOT* wired right.... It could be *in* the furnace, it could be
> *in* the humidifier(factory mis-wired)
Is it common to find a mis-wired brand-new from the box digital
humidistat? It looks like a printed circuit board--not loose wire
soldered by people?
Dan
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Or you could do what I told you, which is much easier, and
will actually accomplish something.
Martinic
> >the humidistat and the furnace?????
>
> >Dan
>
> Ummm...... because the humidistat is calling for humidity,
> and causing it to ? Either that, or fucking ghosts.
I can understand if the only the blower turned on (the model #60
digital humidistat has a "Blower Activation Mode" that, when switched
on, allows the humidistat to call for the blower --but not heat-- when
humidity is needed. I connected to hot water btw as instructed if
going to use this B.A.Mode).
Dan
Martinic
No metal except for brass outside of unit (solonoid/water valve).
But just to understand what you were thinking: if there's a problem
with C in general, voltage would appear where it shouldn't, right?
Are there other ways to check for this?
Dan
Martinic
> sequence of operation.
I don't think i want to change any sequence of operation? This is all
supposed to work without any extra relays etc and i just want it to
work as it should. This is apparently a top-line product and
humidistat and there's call for any extra relays etc. My furnace
terminal looks exactly as the diagram supplied by Aprilaire so it
should work, no?
:Dan
Martinic
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think that's what they used to call them. Well, something
> is wired wrong. I'm not sure why when you hook up the W. Of
> course, might be better if I was there to follow the wiring
> in person.
I can take pictures!! lol
:Dan
Martinic
> will actually accomplish something.
Forgive me... but you told me what i need (hook up an isolation relay)
but i don't know exactly what that is or how to do that :)
Since it should work without this relay thing, i'm gonna keep trying
to figure it out. If i can't, though, could you give me some
direction how to hook it up? Starting with what exactly it does,
which will help me understand the hookup.
Thank you,
Dan
Martinic
Hi Tony.. it's the model 500 with the new model 60 humidistat
(digital). This one has the ability to turn on the blower (not heat)
when humidity is needed so it need not wait for furnace to turn on. I
didn't leave out the humidistat--that's what is causing the problem
(hooking up its C to furnace C). My thermostat is a Honeywell
programmable (4-wire hook up) and works fine otherwise.
Thank you,
Dan
Stormin Mormon
(If you're under the age of 50, that means "please proceed
to do so".)
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Martinic" <purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:c7649fc8-5739-4fb5...@k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> Something is *NOT* wired right.... It could be *in* the furnace, it could be
>> *in* the humidifier(factory mis-wired)
>
>Is it common to find a mis-wired brand-new from the box digital
>humidistat?
Ummm.... after home-owners installed it ? Yes. Probably 50 %
of 'defective returns' at lowes etc are caused by exactly that.
> It looks like a printed circuit board--not loose wire
>soldered by people?
>
>Dan
--
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> � � � � You need an isolation relay, if you want to change the
Fucking reutrn it to Lowes, and STFU already. Either that, or
learn at least ONE new note - the one you're singing is all played
out.
Bu by,.
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
You'd probably fuck that up, too.
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > Or you could do what I told you, which is much easier, and
>> will actually accomplish something.
>
>Forgive me... but you told me what i need (hook up an isolation relay)
>but i don't know exactly what that is or how to do that :)
Life's a bitch.
>
>Since it should work without this relay thing, i'm gonna keep trying
>to figure it out. If i can't, though, could you give me some
>direction how to hook it up? Starting with what exactly it does,
>which will help me understand the hookup.
>
>Thank you,
>Dan
Sure - first, you call your local competent trained HVAC
service company. You explain your problem to them, and ask when they
can come out to fix it .....
Second, when the man gets there, you stand back the fuck out
of his way and STFU while he works. Better yet, be in a different
room. When he's done, he'll give you a shout-out.
Martinic
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Name that tune!
>
> (If you're under the age of 50, that means "please proceed
> to do so".)
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> news:c7649fc8-5739-4fb5...@k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 31, 4:54 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
>
> <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I think that's what they used to call them. Well,
> > something
> > is wired wrong. I'm not sure why when you hook up the W.
> > Of
> > course, might be better if I was there to follow the
> > wiring
> > in person.
>
> I can take pictures!! lol
>
> :Dan
I will do so next time i'm there (it's not my place where i'm
installing this). Maybe it's this new girlfriend that's the problem
ha ha
:Dan
Martinic
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:23:50 -0800 (PST), Martinic
>
Lowe's doesn't sell this higher-end units; at least not up here in
Canada :)
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Post pictures of her tits.
Steve
:Dan
I told you.... your installer is an idiot.
Call a competent, licensed tech to come fix your fuck-ups. When the tech
gets there, get the hell out of the way, and let the man do his job, then
when he is done, pay the man.
end of story.
Martinic
You first :)
Martinic
> "Martinic" <puromas...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
Well.. this "idiot" some years ago intalled a Fanhandler, a HRV, and
the very same Aprilaire 500 on his own system. On top of that, a gas
fireplace, all the electrical in the home incl. complete re-wire,
flooring, and even a dishwasher.
When the gas guy came to do the black pipe fittings, he commented how
he's never seen neater work.
Sometimes, when you do it for yourself, you do it better. Of
course.. ...all it takes is a bit of information. Isn't that what
this forum is for?
I teach for a living--English Lit. If you wanna know how to write a
haiku, i'd be happy to help. Oh, wait--already taught your kid that
one so you can ask him ;)
Thank you,
Dan
Martinic
Steve.. the correct term is "ignorant"--ie. "Your installer is
ignorant". You don't know him well or his IQ to judge his
intelligence; you do know, however, that he is missing a lot of
information about installing inconsistencies and how to overcome
them. That's why he's asking here btw :)
Thank you,
Dan
Martinic
> service company.
First i'd have to find out which one is competent; probably end up
going through a bunch of hackers first. Or is the renovation business
the only one full of unskilled rip-off tradesmen? LOL
:Dan
PS: Remember the professional that installed your electrical boxes all
crooked? Or the plumber that didn't vent the toilet right?
Martinic
> learn at least ONE new note - the one you're singing is all played
> out.
I'll learn a new song as soon as you do.. ...my friend, it's been
many, many years since i chatted with you on this same newgroup and it
seems that your set list hasn't changed one bit either LOL!
I kinda miss it actually :)
:Dan
Martinic
I don't think i've messed up quite yet; i think i've done the install
correctly, "by-the-book" per se, but am missing the experience in the
field to know how to modify something to deal with an unusual issue
(or maybe it's a usual one, i don't know).
Hey.. how come some of you guys don't like people watching you work?
Perhaps you don't want anyone to see you not instantly knowing what's
wrong and trying a few different things until you luck out with some
interesting fix? That's cool with me.. except if i'm paying $100 an
hour ha ha
I'm sure you wouldn't want to be paying someone to learn how to change
the timing belt on your Audi :)
:Dan
Oscar_Lives
"Martinic" wrote in message
news:2b77346a-6115-45f1...@p16g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
:Dan
I like watching your wife "work" on herself with that huge vibrating tool.
The Daring Dufas
The "C" terminal often a blue wire is the 24 volt AC common and is
usually attached to the metal cabinet of the air handler. Some of
the manufacturers use their own color code but blue is the most
used color for "C" common. I believe I posted a link to isolation
relays that can be used if a humidifier is misbehaving and the best
relay in my opinion to use is a current sensing relay that will
turn on the humidifier whenever the air handler blower motor runs.
Of course, use a humidistat to turn off the humidifier if you choose
to run just the blower or AC.
TDD
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
I dont' HAVE any pictures of your friend's tits. Why do you
think I was asking for them ?
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Call a competent, licensed tech to come fix your fuck-ups.
>
>I don't think i've messed up quite yet; i think i've done the install
>correctly, "by-the-book" per se, but am missing the experience in the
Except it don't fucking work. Good job.
>field to know how to modify something to deal with an unusual issue
>(or maybe it's a usual one, i don't know).
>
>Hey.. how come some of you guys don't like people watching you work?
It's not the watching, it's idjits like you TALKING.
>Perhaps you don't want anyone to see you not instantly knowing what's
>wrong and trying a few different things until you luck out with some
>interesting fix? That's cool with me.. except if i'm paying $100 an
>hour ha ha
>
>I'm sure you wouldn't want to be paying someone to learn how to change
>the timing belt on your Audi :)
>
>:Dan
--
Steve
Thank you,
Dan
You can be "book smart", yet not have the common sense that GOD gave a brass
door knob. FWIW, a *COMPETENT* tech is not going to be the one with the
cheapest service call price.
I know your installer well enough to know that he is in over his head and
doesn't have a clue about HVAC systems other than looking at the pictures in
the installers manuals. Now that you have an issue, you don't know how to
handle it.
Martinic
Oh, i know exactly how to handle it. And this coming weekend, when i
get a chance to go re-visit the issue again, i'm going to apply all
that i've learned so far from here and other research and see if i can
get a little further ahead in solving this problem.
It's called learning--something this installer is willing to take the
time to do.
The first time you got on a bike, you were well over your head. Bet
you didn't give up though ;)
:Dan
HVAC
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:40:45 -0800 (PST), Martinic
> <purom...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>>>> Post pictures of her tits.
>>
>> You first :)
>
> I dont' HAVE any pictures of your friend's tits. Why do you
> think I was asking for them ?
>
I've got pics of his girlfriend's tits..........
Stormin Mormon
Bishop and get pennance. Twenty Hail Mormons,
and ten Our Fathers.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"HVAC" <mr....@gmail.com>
wrote in message news:iicch2$hjp$1...@hvac.motzarella.org...
Oscar_Lives
"Martinic" wrote in message
news:d31bd5e4-c39e-47c8...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
:Dan
Hey Idiot Dan-- hope you don't burn your house down or otherwise kill your
family you cheap bastard.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
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"Oscar_Lives" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
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