KeepRite DC90 Heat Exchange ring popped
lane
KeepRite DC90. The guy discovered a popped ring in the heat exchange
and told me that this was pretty common with this model.
I'm just wondering the validity of this statement, since I'm not able
to find a single scrap of information in Google groups or on the web
itself regarding this issue.
I've been told that the repair will cost $500 and due to
regulation/law, the gas will not be turned back onto the furnace until
the repair is complete.. I'm really just looking for any information I
can get my hands on at this point.
Thanks in advance!
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
He should be able to show it to you. It's a visible item.
IOW, if HE can see it, YOU can see it ( with his guidance ). He
should have shown it to you already ( unless you weren't home ). Then
you would have no question about it.
As it is, he didn't, you do, so call another company to come
out and diagnose the unit. See if they say the same thing. He could
be telling you the truth, or he could be one of the ones that uses a
'yearly inspection' as an excuse to get in there and sell stuff.
In the meantime, leave the gas **OFF** !!!!
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lane
since I have zero experience with these things.
The gas is currently off and will stay that way until fixed.
Thanks for your help.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>He did show me the flame..
Through a place where you should NOT have been able to see
flame ? What exactly did he say and show ?
lane
sort of like a sideways "U" (sorry for my lack of technical terms.. )
Up inside there you could see a bit of a flame. He said that meant that
one of the rings in the heat exchange had popped and would need to be
fixed, that he couldn't leave the gas on to the furnace because its
against codes and legally he had to do that.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
not supposed to see flame - get out the warm blankies, you'll need
them until it's fixed.
lane
fixed..
DK
Just be sure you get him to show you the code he was referringto.
Bob_Loblaw
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
The Keeprites had a history of this from around 1990 to 1998.
The heat exchangers were held together with large crimped rings, which
would pop out, allowing the two halves of the exchanger to separate.
You could sometimes see them lying on top of the blower panel inside the
housing, but only if you could open the plenum and look down with a
boroscope.
Sometimes the rings would end up in the blower housing below the squirel
cage.
The tell tale sign is a tripped spill switch at the burner compartment, or
a melted or scorched plastic screen on the intake at the furnace housing
(single pipe sysytem).
The reason the spill switch trips is because the ventor can't handle the
extra volume of air being sucked into the exchanger through the separated
halves, and some of the flue gases spill back into the burner area.
The Goodmans used the same exchangers for a while.
The fix is a new exchanger, and yes, the tech was right to shut you down.
It's a hazard. Don't use it until it's fixed.
Lastly, the wholesaler will charge your tech a handling fee unless they
originally sold the furnace to him.
Also ,expect to pay labour charges.
--
Respectfully, Bob
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
where you can see flame where it ain't supposed to have flame - gets
locked off, period.
Bubba
Guess who else used that heat exchanger? Lennox. When the rings first
started popping/separating the fix was a bolt, nut and washer kit.
This had to be done to the top, first ring of each heat exchanger cell
BEFORE it popped loose. I never did that fix. Didnt seem right to me.
I did however, see it on the Lennox's. They did this from the factory.
Look at that first ring at the top and there's the bolt.
It was common with the ICP's. Also found several secondarys where the
plastic end collector would crack. One had a whole the size of my fist
and never tripped the roll-out. It did however trash the camstat
limit. Thats the only way I knew. It was cycling on/off on the high
limit till it just failed completly.
$500 is about 1/2 what I charge in warranty but I replace the primary
and secondary while Im in there. "Your mileage may vary"
Bubba
Bob_Loblaw
> Guess who else used that heat exchanger? Lennox. When the rings first
> started popping/separating the fix was a bolt, nut and washer kit.
> This had to be done to the top, first ring of each heat exchanger cell
> BEFORE it popped loose. I never did that fix. Didnt seem right to me.
> I did however, see it on the Lennox's. They did this from the factory.
> Look at that first ring at the top and there's the bolt.
> It was common with the ICP's. Also found several secondarys where the
> plastic end collector would crack. One had a whole the size of my fist
> and never tripped the roll-out. It did however trash the camstat
> limit. Thats the only way I knew. It was cycling on/off on the high
> limit till it just failed completly.
> $500 is about 1/2 what I charge in warranty but I replace the primary
> and secondary while Im in there. "Your mileage may vary"
> Bubba
Ya, you're right Bubba.
Lennox did have a kit for that.
And yes, the Keeprite secondarys were a pain in the ass (plastic ones).
I've changed a few, and I always come away with a few cuts from the
secondary fins.
The telltale sign there is usually water in the blower housing or on the
vestibule.Or like you said, also tripped limits.
The new Keeprites aren't bad, but I wish they'd get rid of those fucking
door panel screws!
--
Respectfully, Bob
daytona°
I think I remember seeing the sticker when I was at the factory in
Lewisburg, TN ...some years back
And ICP's as well as Janitrols (Goodman) were famous for popping rings. We
install 44 GMP's in a complex in 1992 and replaced 31 of ht Xchangers
already...the key is to run the gas pressure at about 2.8 and keep the damn
filters clean. Last thing tenants do is change the filer if at all
"lane" <jl...@salentica.com> wrote in message
news:1162850098....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Bob_Loblaw
> I believe KeepRite is an ICP product sold out of country...like Canada
> I think I remember seeing the sticker when I was at the factory in
> Lewisburg, TN ...some years back
Yup...they own Carrier too.
--
Respectfully, Bob
Bubba
Yup, the door screws suck big time. Remember when they changed the
door screws from the ones that you couldnt get unscrewed because the
pressed in bolt got loose and just kept turning? And now we have these
new ones that suck just as bad. :-)
I had a 10 ish year old Tempstar last week leaking water all over on
the blower shelf and down in the blower area. Rusting out everything.
They just moved into the house. I figured it was the plastic
secondary. I pulled the limit swich out looking for popped rings or
signs of water. None. I pulled the blower assembly and laid a big
garbage bag inside the blower area and crawled my big ass in there.
Started looking up through the secondary for the rings. Nothing. Got
part of my hand and a mirror on top of the secondary and started
scraping and brushing the top to see if I could push a loose ring out
where I could see it. Nothing. I pulled the inducer assembly off and
then pulled the "tommy gun" inducer housing piece loose. Looked into
the end of the plastic secondary. No crack or breaks. Only place the
water was coming from was the inducer housing itself. Two of the clips
that hold the 2 inducer halves together were completely rusted away
and the sealant failed. Put everything back together and installed a
new inducer assembly. Good as new again.
Bubba
Bubba
>On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 01:19:03 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>> Get serious. any bad heat-x, any perforation of a heat-x, etc
>>where you can see flame where it ain't supposed to have flame - gets
>>locked off, period.
>
>
>I had some bitch file a complaint with the BBB against me and the
>company I work for for doing that a couple of weeks ago, said I was
>using scare tactics. I used my fiber optic scope to show her the crack
>on the original call. She called the local gas company and us. Me and
>the boss go out there and meet gas guy. I tear the damn furnace apart
>and show them the crack, boy did that cunt eat some crow.
But did you replace that cunt's crack?
Bubba
Ok, that brings up another gas company story.
Nice old lady calls me about fumes, headaches, etc. I show up and see
that she has had a company come in that does free insulation,
caulking, sealing and repairs. They took a gas vented water heater and
moved it from its interior vented chimney to just venting it outside
and run single wall pipe up the side of the house 12 ft. House is
2-1/2 stories high. I told her they screwed up. She needs it fixed
right. She of course is skeptical because I tell her it needs double
wall pipe, has to extend 2 feet higher than anything within a 10 ft
radius of it and it has to be boxed in and insulated where it exits
the house and all the way up. She calls the gas company out. She might
as well have called the kid next door. They tell her that It is fine
and that I am full of shit. It takes me two days, a lot of phone calls
and argueing and a few pages of the gamma tables on proper venting.
The gas company supervisor finally calls me and tells me I am right. I
said, "Fine I already know that but now you have to convince my
customer and tell her that you were wrong". He finally called and told
her they made a mistake. I told her a cheaper alternative would be to
dump the gas water heater and install an electric one. She did, all is
fine and she loves me again. :-)
PrecisionMachinisT
"DK" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:6qb2l2t50kb2gd9mi...@4ax.com...
>
> Just be sure you get him to show you the code he was referringto.
>
Moron alert.
>
>
> On 6 Nov 2006 16:38:05 -0800, "lane" <jl...@salentica.com> wrote:
>
> >Thankfully we managed to get an appointment for this evening to get it
> >fixed..
> >Thanks for your help.
> >
> >.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> >> I don't know the particular brand, but if you saw flame where you're
> >> not supposed to see flame - get out the warm blankies, you'll need
> >> them until it's fixed.
> >>
--
SVL
PrecisionMachinisT
"Bubba" <LiKeAlA...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:tuovk2946mo3j48fs...@4ax.com...
Just my .02 as a machinist...never even seen one these things myself but
from the description...
Sounds like what happening here is the metal gets repeatedly heated
/cooled...and eventually becomes soft ( annealed )...
That "crimped ring"...or whatever they hell they using, and expecting to
hold under pressure...eventually no longer does.
--
SVL
Bob_Loblaw
> water was coming from was the inducer housing itself. Two of the clips
> that hold the 2 inducer halves together were completely rusted away
> and the sealant failed. Put everything back together and installed a
> new inducer assembly. Good as new again.
> Bubba
Nice bit of detective work!
I hope the new ones hold up better.
I'm thinking of switching to York furnaces for my installs. but they're
another half hour drive from me.
If these new ones prove faulty, I'm giving up on Keeprite.
--
Respectfully, Bob
Bob_Loblaw
>They took a gas vented water heater and
> moved it from its interior vented chimney to just venting it outside
> and run single wall pipe up the side of the house 12 ft. House is
> 2-1/2 stories high. I told her they screwed up. She needs it fixed
> right. .................... I told her a cheaper alternative would be to
> dump the gas water heater and install an electric one.
Why not go power vented?
>all is
> fine and she loves me again. :-)
Make her prove her love. :-)
--
Respectfully, Bob
Bob_Loblaw
> Just my .02 as a machinist...never even seen one these things myself
> but from the description...
>
> Sounds like what happening here is the metal gets repeatedly heated
> /cooled...and eventually becomes soft ( annealed )...
>
> That "crimped ring"...or whatever they hell they using, and expecting
> to hold under pressure...eventually no longer does.
>
> --
>
> SVL
I suspect you're right.
Keeprite is a very common brand in Canada.
They also go by the names Tempstar and Heil.
Sears used to install nothing but.
They made an A/C nicknamed the "Green Machine", a large rectangular box that would
run forever, like a Volkswagon.
I worked on one this summer that needed a contactor. It was 28 years old.
--
Respectfully, Bob
B-Hate-Me
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:fmnvk2plmb5b7qp6u...@4ax.com...
> Get serious. any bad heat-x, any perforation of a heat-x, etc
> where you can see flame where it ain't supposed to have flame - gets
> locked off, period.
My guys are trained to shut the gas....IF the owner seems like the type
that's
going to turn it back on as soon as you hit the driveway, the we call the
local fire dept.
I don't honestly know what the liability is, but when the FD shows up
for a high CO call they aren't very "subtle".
I almost ALWAYS get the sale.
Bob_Loblaw
> My guys are trained to shut the gas....IF the owner seems like the type
> that's
> going to turn it back on as soon as you hit the driveway, the we call the
> local fire dept.
We're required to not only shut of the gas to the appliance, but fill out
an infraction form stateing the default, the code book reference, then get
the customer to sign it.That's called an "A" tag.
It is then faxed to the local gas supplier.
If it's a "B" tag, something that's not immediately life threatening, they
have 30 days to get it repaired, otherwise they get their meter cranked
off.
--
Respectfully, Bob
Bubba
<inocent...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Bubba <LiKeAlA...@iname.com> wrote
>
>
>>They took a gas vented water heater and
>> moved it from its interior vented chimney to just venting it outside
>> and run single wall pipe up the side of the house 12 ft. House is
>> 2-1/2 stories high. I told her they screwed up. She needs it fixed
>> right. .................... I told her a cheaper alternative would be to
>> dump the gas water heater and install an electric one.
>
>
>Why not go power vented?
>
Have you priced the power vented water heaters or a power vented
add-on Jurnland kit? No Thanks.
Bubba
Bubba
New ones work just fine. They went from that heat exchanger to a
tubular. Good as new again.
Anymore, they all suck. Too competitive so they all make them as cheap
as they can.
Pick your poison.
Bubba
Bubba
wrote:
Just a thought (and its just me thinking) even though what you do is
correct and trying to keep the customer from harm............
If I were a customer and you turned my gas off, and then the fire dept
shows up, you'd be the last company I call for my replacement.
Nothing personal about you, just thinkin......
Bubba
daytona°
entity
But when you get a Comfortmaker, Arcoaire, Tempstar or any other ICP A/C is
has an add on Carrier liquid line drier with it
And lately, ICP has been converting over to shit brain Carrier system
"Bob_Loblaw" <inocent...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_fT3h.178245$sS1....@read1.cgocable.net...
lp13-30
fall service when he was testing the limit switch. I swear those things
look just like the "eyes" on a tarp- a ring with a flange on it, and
another ring going over the flange, and the flange then bradded down.
BTW, does Goodman give a tubular HX to replace the POS ones under
warranty, or do they just give you the same kind?
Noon-Air
"lp13-30" <LP1...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16639-455...@storefull-3151.bay.webtv.net...
I dunno.....I do know that Rheem/RUUD come with tubular steel HX when they
are new out of the box.
Unknown
People are claiming they used some bad material in their earlier
heat exchangers. Carrier disputes it, will be interesting to see
who wins.
And as far as ICP heat exchangers go they are junk...if you don't
find popped riglets or a cracked secondary, put your mirror inside
the burner ports and look up on the inside, near the orange high
temp silicone. You will usually find small "baby cracks". We are
allowed to red tag and replace the heat exchanger just for that,
even though there is no flame impingment or no carbon monoxide.
-Canadian Heat
--
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------------------- ----- ---- -- -
B-Hate-Me
What state?
Tekkie®
>
> What state?
>
Confusion
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.
Bob_Loblaw
news:qsydnf911NpjK8zY...@comcast.com:
Ontario Canada
--
Respectfully, Bob
Oscar_Lives
Ahh, yeah. The wanna-be 51st state.
Noon-Air
"Oscar_Lives" <nos...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:dRR4h.1057367$084.148740@attbi_s22...
I thought that was MEXICO
Bob_Loblaw
>> Ontario Canada
>>
>> --
>> Respectfully, Bob
>
>
> Ahh, yeah. The wanna-be 51st state.
LOL!
There are only two kinds of people in this world..
Canadians...and those who wish they were....and besides,
who'd want to have to drink that pissy tasting American "training" beer.
Paul Milligan has Sleeman's Gold secretly shipped across the border to his
place, although he's had pressed to admit it.... :-)
--
Respectfully, Bob