gurgling sound in liquid line
Gn92LT1
unit, and one air handler in the basement and one in the attic. Both units
perform
well with at least a 25 degree temp drop across the coil. The downstairs unit,
however, always has considerable gurgling noise coming from the liquid line
just before entering the evaporator. The same line for the attic unit is quiet.
I know that air in the system can cause this to occur..but could this be a
normal condition since the unit is functioning well..and even seems to put out
cooler air than the attic unit? Would a pressure check be helpful or would the
only way to be sure is to have it evacuated and recharged?
Sonofdawra
You are getting confused here with hot water heat. Air in the system gets
trapped in the outdoor coil while the system is running.
>Both units
>perform
>well with at least a 25 degree temp drop across the coil.
With that much temp drop, you might be a tad short on air flow.
>The downstairs unit,
>however, always has considerable gurgling noise coming from the liquid line
>just before entering the evaporator.
Are you sure it is actually coming from the liquid line?
mlob...@zyworld.com
Low loads lead to reduced liquid line mass and increased evaporator
mass, could be due to air flow problem as Ron sugests. Eliminate low
load before looking into adjusting the charge.
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Robert Gracie
by low charge, and non-condensable or moisture in the system...
--
Robert Gracie
Gracie Appliance, Heating & Air Conditioning, Inc.
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<mlob...@zyworld.com> wrote in message news:7j0v36$837$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
ftwhd
<rgr...@gracieappliance.com> wrote:
> Gurgling and pulsation noises at the expansion device can also be caused
>by low charge, and non-condensable or moisture in the system...
>
>--
On real hot days I can hear a gurgling or squirting sound coming from
the liquid line on my a/c and it is definatly not undercharged nor is
there moisture or non condensables in the system.. I dont have a clue
why it makes this sound but system performance does not seem to be
affected. Its done this since day one and I kinda figure that its
just normal on hot days??? The unit is 6 yrs old and I havent had
problem one with it since I installed it so Im not going to lose any
sleep over it.
Regards, Mike
UA Local 370
to reply <ft...@accessflint.com>
mlob...@zyworld.com
fuckoff...@accessflint.com (ftwhd) wrote:
...no Mike, it doesn't have a liquid line restriction :-)
> On real hot days I can hear a gurgling or squirting sound coming from
> the liquid line on my a/c and it is definatly not undercharged nor is
> there moisture or non condensables in the system.. I dont have a clue
> why it makes this sound but system performance does not seem to be
> affected. Its done this since day one and I kinda figure that its
> just normal on hot days??? The unit is 6 yrs old and I havent had
> problem one with it since I installed it so Im not going to lose any
> sleep over it.
Cool, I wont lose any sleep over it either then :-)
Sonofdawra
>by low charge, and non-condensable or moisture in the system...
I'll agree with the low on charge, but can you expalin how non-condensables can
cause this problem. Non-condensables get trapped in the condenser coil by the
liquid seal at the condenser outlet when the system is running.
Can anyone explain to me how non-condensables would ever cause this noise
problem?
Have a nice day, Ron
mlob...@my-deja.com
sonof...@aol.com (Sonofdawra) wrote:
> Can anyone explain to me how non-condensables would ever cause this
noise
> problem?
Umm, dah, having a bad day Ron :-)
For a given charge of any blend, a system operating state which brings a
percentage of the buble point element to the expansion device in a semi
condensed condition is in itself simulating a non-condensibles
condition.
:-)
:-)
:-)
:-)
Apart from that, well, what if, due to non-condensibles induced higher
heads, the compressor capacity was compromised to such a degree that
refrigerant began collecting in the low side and hence starving the TEV
??
Marc
Robert Gracie
--
Robert Gracie
Gracie Appliance, Heating & Air Conditioning, Inc.
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www.GracieAppliance.com
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Sonofdawra <sonof...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990604094958...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
> >Gurgling and pulsation noises at the expansion device can also be caused
> >by low charge, and non-condensable or moisture in the system...
>
> I'll agree with the low on charge, but can you expalin how
non-condensables can
> cause this problem. Non-condensables get trapped in the condenser coil by
the
> liquid seal at the condenser outlet when the system is running.
>
> Can anyone explain to me how non-condensables would ever cause this noise
> problem?
>
Ted L. Lieder
(guess??) I have had problems with cap tube systems when the drier upstream
of the cap tube was vertically oriented,by tipping the drier so that there
was liquid immediately available to the cap tubes upon start-up solved the
problem. Of course, this noise was only evident on start-up for up to one
minute.
Robert Gracie <rgr...@gracieappliance.com> wrote in message
news:7j9jsm$8pi$1...@nw001t.infi.net...
Robert Gracie
non-condensable, get trapped in the condenser, but I do not believe that.
If that were true then you would never get an ice blocked metering device at
the evaporator, when moisture is found in a system. And h20 is larger than
o2...am I correct here???
--
Robert Gracie
Gracie Appliance, Heating & Air Conditioning, Inc.
Come Visit Us!
www.GracieAppliance.com
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Ted L. Lieder <te...@sirius.com> wrote in message
news:9287129...@news.remarQ.com...
Craig
Air in the system I consider a non condensable. Moisture is technically
a non condensable but I dont consider it one in an HVAC system. Unlike
the air that gets trapped in the condenser moisture travels around the
system with the refrigerant as a liquid. It is not compressed nor is it
evaporated out.
The pressures normally run in an R22 high temp application system are
way too high to boil the water or separate it from the refrigerant
except at the metering device when it freezes. Driers will also remove
it along with a deep vacuum.
The gurgling noise your hearing maybe refrigerant vapor in the liquid
line from an undercharge.
Craig
UA local 9
mlob...@zyworld.com
"Robert Gracie" <rgr...@gracieappliance.com> wrote:
> The noises that we are speaking of are continuous. Ron said that
> non-condensable, get trapped in the condenser, but I do not believe
that.
> If that were true then you would never get an ice blocked metering
device at
> the evaporator, when moisture is found in a system. And h20 is larger
than
Water is a condensible in this context.
> o2...am I correct here???
No !!
Robert Gracie
> In article <7jf3fi$eqm$1...@nw001t.infi.net>,
> Water is a condensible in this context.
How does air (non-condensables) get "trapped" in the condenser? What
keeps it there? Isn't the refrigerant moving through the system at a fairly
high velocity. Why wouldn't the non-condensables move along with the
pre-condensed and condensed refrigerant?
I am just try to understand this apparent phenomenon :-)
>
> > o2...am I correct here???
>
> No !!
>
Please help me to understand, why I am incorrect..
Craig
Under these conditions I dont believe the water ever vaporizes to have
to condense. It may freeze from a liquid to a solid and visa versa but
it cant turn into a vapor. It needs to be a vapor to condense into a
liquid.
Craig
UA local 9
mlob...@zyworld.com wrote:
>
> Water is a condensible in this context.
>
> > o2...am I correct here???
>
> No !!
>
ftwhd
Regards, Mike
UA local 370
Craig
Look at a steam table and see what the boiling point of water is at say
65 PSI and 250 PSI. It boils (changes to a vapor) at 212F at 0 PSI. I
dont know the exact boiling points at 250 and 65 PSI but Im sure there
alot higher than 212F. When does your system ever get to 212F or above?
Craig
UA local 9
ftwhd
>How about no. :}
> Look at a steam table and see what the boiling point of water is at say
>65 PSI and 250 PSI. It boils (changes to a vapor) at 212F at 0 PSI. I
>dont know the exact boiling points at 250 and 65 PSI but Im sure there
>alot higher than 212F. When does your system ever get to 212F or above?
> Craig
>UA local 9
>
>ftwhd wrote:
>>
>> How about saturated vapor? :)
>>
I thought I could get you to explain yourself a little better :)
mlob...@zyworld.com
Craig <cmoo...@home.com> wrote:
> Marc
> Under these conditions I dont believe the water ever vaporizes to
have
> to condense. It may freeze from a liquid to a solid and visa versa but
> it cant turn into a vapor. It needs to be a vapor to condense into a
> liquid.
> Craig
> UA local 9
Absolutely Craig, my point exactly, a quick reference to water PH chart
would allow you to see what may happen to the water in transport round
the system, but essesntially it is a condensible. And it is because of
the fact that it is a condensible that it is able to arrive at the TEV
and freeze if exposed to sub zero temps there.
Marc
BTW: the 'N's' are better :-)
mlob...@zyworld.com
"Robert Gracie" <rgr...@gracieappliance.com> wrote:
> <mlob...@zyworld.com> wrote in message
news:7jgb1q$leq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <7jf3fi$eqm$1...@nw001t.infi.net>,
>
What
> keeps it there? Isn't the refrigerant moving through the system at a
fairly
> high velocity. Why wouldn't the non-condensables move along with the
> pre-condensed and condensed refrigerant?
Bouyancy or how ever you spell it, if air could travel down the
condenser into the liquid line or if air could dive down under the
liquid in the receiver and flow down the liquid line then why couldn't
the less bouyant or heaver refrigerant vapour do the same ??
Marc
GeoGenuis
of 100% liquid making it to the metering device it may only be 70% or 80%
liquid. I see and hear them do it daily when undercharged. Someone got chasing
a "rabbit" with the noncondensable idea it sounds like.
Craig
PAY ATTENTION!!!.
Craig
UA local 9
mlob...@zyworld.com
Craig <cmoo...@home.com> wrote:
> A daaahhh, the undercharge was discussed way back in the thread.
> PAY ATTENTION!!!.
Yes, I had a good laugh when I read Gee Gee's post, never mind, I'm
sure he realises his short comings now :-)
> GeoGenuis wrote:
> >
> > Uhhhh guys, did anyone evr think that maybe the system is
undercharged. Instead
> > of 100% liquid making it to the metering device it may only be 70%
or 80%
> > liquid. I see and hear them do it daily when undercharged. Someone
got chasing
> > a "rabbit" with the noncondensable idea it sounds like.
>
Robert Gracie
cover it lists "non-condensable and or moisture" as causes for a gurgling or
pulsating noise at the expansion device. As a mater of fact I had a brand
new system give me all kinds of grief two years ago in that the entire
evaporator would not become active. Many of you may remember:-).... This
system also did the gurgling thing at the TEV. When I finally recovered the
charge and cleaned the system up, the noise at the TEV stopped, not to
mention that the entire coil became active.
--
Robert Gracie
Gracie Appliance, Heating & Air Conditioning, Inc.
Come Visit Us!
www.GracieAppliance.com
Private Servicers Discussion Forum
www.gracieappliance.com/web_selfregistration_form.htm
<mlob...@zyworld.com> wrote in message news:7jiokn$gnj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
mlob...@my-deja.com
"Robert Gracie" <rgr...@gracieappliance.com> wrote:
> I think I understand :-)..... All I do know is, on every Rheem
condenser
> cover it lists "non-condensable and or moisture" as causes for a
gurgling or
> pulsating noise at the expansion device.
Especially if moisture has freeze locked the TEV fully open, as for the
air being a cause, well, perhaps not so much by it itself travelling to
the TEV but as a cause of some other gurgling scenario ?
As a mater of fact I had a
brand
> new system give me all kinds of grief two years ago in that the entire
> evaporator would not become active. Many of you may remember:-)....
This
> system also did the gurgling thing at the TEV. When I finally
recovered the
> charge and cleaned the system up, the noise at the TEV stopped, not to
> mention that the entire coil became active.
Moisture ? Hmmm, interesting.
Robert Gracie
>
> Especially if moisture has freeze locked the TEV fully open, as for the
> air being a cause, well, perhaps not so much by it itself travelling to
> the TEV but as a cause of some other gurgling scenario ?
>
That could be.... more "non-condensables" would cause less liquid
refrigerant to hit the meter.?? Although with this paticular system, *all
peramerters* were right on, absent a fully active coil....
> As a mater of fact I had a
> brand
> > new system give me all kinds of grief two years ago in that the entire
> > evaporator would not become active. Many of you may remember:-)....
> This
> > system also did the gurgling thing at the TEV. When I finally
> recovered the
> > charge and cleaned the system up, the noise at the TEV stopped, not to
> > mention that the entire coil became active.
>
> Moisture ? Hmmm, interesting.
Well if it was moisture, I can tell you this, it was not from the absence of
good system practices. Whatever **crap** that was in that system came from
the pre charged condensing unit..
rdaws...@my-deja.com
"Robert Gracie" <rgr...@gracieappliance.com>
wrote:
> I think I understand :-)..... All I do know
is, on every Rheem condenser
> cover it lists "non-condensable and or
moisture" as causes for a gurgling or
I have read some of the Rheem literature and they
have had at some point someone doing the writing
that IMHO does not know refrigeration very well.
I have seen a lot of mistakes in some of their
printed literature. I would not always rely on
what a Rheem troubleshooting chart in one of
their installation manuals says. Right now I'm
too snowed under to go to the files and pull the
installation manual I was looking at the other
day and give an example. I just remember reading
in and thinking that someone at Rheem sure was
doing a mis-service by puting into print some of
what was there.
Just my humble opinion, Ron
Sonofdawra
>heads, the compressor capacity was compromised to such a degree that
>refrigerant began collecting in the low side and hence starving the TEV
>??
>
>Marc
That would require one hell of a lot of air wouldn't it? :o)
>Umm, dah, having a bad day Ron :-)
>
>
I thought I was being civil. This summer all of my days are bad
days-----working too damn many hours-----having to work a lot of hours during
what is supposed to be my "off" hours. Not getting a chance to spend much time
on the water kayaking :o( which really means it's a bad summer so far.
Sonofdawra
>
>--
>>Non-condensables get trapped in the condenser coil by
>>the
>> liquid seal at the condenser outlet when the system is running.
>>
Why do purge units on low pressure chillers pull vapor from the top of the
condenser? Because that is where the air gets trapped.
Craig
Why do purges on absorbers pickup the noncondensables from under the
absorber bundle and not the condenser?
Becuase thats where the air gets trapped. Its the lowest pressure spot
in the machine.
And not to bust your bubble Ron but the non condensables dont hang out
in the top of the condenser on a low pressure machine. They hang out
depending on the machine under the discharge baffle and are picked up
the by a foul gas pickup tube. The non condensables like to mix with the
turbulant discharge gases and seperate out of the refrigerant once the
turbulance stops.
Craig
UA local 9
GeoGenuis
do not have to be a smart ass about it. The only short coming here is in your
pants!!
GeoGenuis
post. Don't be such a DICK!!
ftwhd
>OK smart ass. Some of us whave to work 12 - 16 hour days and can not read ever
>post. Don't be such a DICK!!
Try quoting so the rest of us non genuis's know what the hell you're
babbling about. Even at 16 hours a day working that leaves 8 hours to
eat, sleep, shit, read, and post. Cant keep up or what? LOL
Craig
So why would you just blatantly post from the hip. And Dick head Ive
worked at least 70hrs a week for the last 4 weeks.
Craig
UA local 9