Return air ducts in outside wall

[Jim & Carol Smithson]

I have always noticed in my new (2 year old) home that the builder/HVAC
contractor the return air ducts for both of my kids upstairs bedrooms in the
outside walls. My daughters is even a double return given she has two ducts
in the room. This seems very stupid to me as now these stud cavities have
no insulation all the way to the basement (these are 2nd story rooms). With
a novice look, it seems feasible for place these in the interior walls.

Is this standard practice or shortcutting? Also all the 2nd story heat
ducts go up the outside walls in thin metal ducts (much skinnier than the
entire stud cavity) but at least these have insulation on either
side...however I am sure the air is not as warm once it gets upstairs given
its exposure to the outside with only sheathing and vinyl separating it.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
Jim S.

--
Jim

[John James]

The feeds and returns should have press fit styrofoam of the same R
value as the fiberglass on the outside wall.

"Jim & Carol Smithson" <smith...@bignet.net> wrote in message
news:ts0pu7o...@corp.supernews.com...

[Arthur]

Jim try my website & see if that helps, www.arthurhewett.com
The exterior walls should have by code their own insulation then any duct &
insulation would be in addition to that. Also if return is pulled from the
"Cavity" the size & connection would be very important. It sounds suspect to
me. Can you contact your local building department to see what they require.
Also if this was a new home then there should be a plan of the A/c & Heat ,
location, installation, etc. I don't know your location so the building
department might be City or County. Also try the utility companies & what
they have for conservation.
Hope this helps
Arthur

"Jim & Carol Smithson" <smith...@bignet.net> wrote in message
news:ts0pu7o...@corp.supernews.com...

[Jim & Carol Smithson]

I will open the vent and verify. I don't believe they do.

--
Jim

"John James" <Gemc...@chalktv.com> wrote in message
news:X11w7.78806$9j.10...@news1.telusplanet.net...

[Jim & Carol Smithson]

As I figured, no insulation in the cavities...I remove the grill cover to
see exterior sheathing.

Should I 'report' this to my local building inspector and question the HVAC
and Insulation inspections? doubt they can do much at this point.

--
Jim

"John James" <Gemc...@chalktv.com> wrote in message
news:X11w7.78806$9j.10...@news1.telusplanet.net...

[w_tom]

Press fit styrofoam will never have the R rating of insulation. The
standard used to be to put the hot air ducts in those walls with a trivial
1/2 of fiberglass insulation that was compromised by being press by the
ducts. Yes the return ducts should have some insulation, but it could be
worse. He could have placed the hottest part of the house in that
locations - as was practice for all homes in the 1970s.

[vernon]

Well it was low buck bid, for sure.
There is no justification if it is as you describe.

"Jim & Carol Smithson" <smith...@bignet.net> wrote in message
news:ts0pu7o...@corp.supernews.com...

[John James]

The Department of Energy and the Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Building Envelope Research give press fit styrofoam R ratings per inch
along with other insulation types.
http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/insulation/ins_tab2.html

Insulation type R-value per inch of thickness
Fiber glass blanket or batt 2.9 to 3.8
Expanded polystyrene board 3.6 to 4
The cheap white stuff
Polyisocyanurate board, foil-faced 7
The best
This material is superior in R value and the reflective foil reduces
heat flow when next to an air space. The radiant barrrier keeps the
heat in and the R value is the relative resistance to heat transfer.

"w_tom" <w_t...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:3BC0F824...@usa.net...

[John James]

If the local codes required insulation it is not a "warranty" matter.
It is a fault that must be fixed.
Follow standard complaint procedure.
Find out where you stand re local code requirements.
Your local building inspection department is a good place to start.
Other sources of information are the "Tech Schools" and the local and
regional building associations.
(Bignet is located in MI) If you are a MI resident I would think you
would need the insulation.
If the omission is a code violation the inspection authority should
not have approved the system and may be held responsible for "passing"
work that is defective. So keep that in mind if the department reverts
to CMA mode. (Cover My A...)
Write a letter to the contractor explaining the defect and requesting
a cure.

"Jim & Carol Smithson" <smith...@bignet.net> wrote in message

news:ts1p252...@corp.supernews.com...

[w_tom]

The point was that the pressed fit styrofoam in an air duct will never
have the R rating of 3.5 inch fiberglass insulation. IOW that 1/2 inch of
styrofoam will not have the equivalent R rating of (the missing) 3.5 inch
fiberglass insulation. It is why new homes no longer use exterior walls
for heat ducts or return air ducts.

[Jim & Carol Smithson]

I contacted my local building dept and awaiting an answer. I am also
looking up my local county builders association to ask them.

Yes, I am in Detroit MI area.

Thanks!

--
Jim

"John James" <Gemc...@chalktv.com> wrote in message

news:LAKw7.1011$xU4.1...@news1.telusplanet.net...

[Paul Fritz]

Jim & Carol Smithson wrote:

> I contacted my local building dept and awaiting an answer. I am also
> looking up my local county builders association to ask them.
>
> Yes, I am in Detroit MI area.
>
> Thanks!
>

The insulation requirement is for the total building envelope, NOT an
individual area. Running ductwork in exterior walls, while not preferable,
is not uncommon. Sometimes there is no other way to get ductwork to the
exterior wall of the the second floor without running it on the outside wall
of the first floor.

[John James]

http://www.mahb.com/
http://www.builders.org/
and the National
http://www.nahb.com/

"Jim & Carol Smithson" <smith...@bignet.net> wrote in message

news:ts73fjc...@corp.supernews.com...