Contactor replacement - was I robbed?
Warren Bowery
would not come on. The company that installed this Lennox system two years
ago sent a man out Wednesday to fix it. My wife said the guy checked the
outside unit, and showed her where the contactor had a burned earwig (bug)
fragment between the contacts. He then put in a brand new $110 contactor,
installed it for $50, and left with $160 in his pocket.
After getting home from work and hearing her account, I checked out the dead
contactor with a multimeter. There was no continuity across the "buggy"
contact when the it was supposed to be closed. After scraping out the bug
remnants with a pair of tweezers, there is now continuity when the contacts
are closed.
My question - should this repairman have tried cleaning the contact before
replacing the $110 part? I ask this especially since we were not happy with
how this particular company handled the installation of our system back in
1999 (the only reason we called them this time is because we were worried that
we had a more serious problem that would be covered under warranty.) I don't
have a problem with the labor charge - after all, I sure couldn't have
diagnosed the problem! I just wonder if it is standard procedure to replace a
contactor without trying to clean it first.
Thanks for your expertise....
Warren Bowery
Remove the nospam to reply
Larry Kapigian
as upset.
Larry
Me
It is now a known fact that a VERY high percentage of compressor failures
are due to the contactor and the contacts in them. The last report if I'm
not mistaken said that it was over 70%. Copeland compressor company will no
longer warrant any replacement compressors unless the contactor is replaced
with the new compressor.
Years ago it was believed that contacts needed to take a 'seat', or be
'burned in'. Today we find if there is ANYTHING questionable about the
contactor it must be changed out.
Cleaning the contacts would and do correct its problem temporarily, but only
for a short, a very short time. We clean them only if we have to get the
system going and don't have the correct one in the truck. We then make sure
that we get a new one in that system ASAP.
Replacing the contactor was the correct thing to do, they may have saved you
the headache of a compressor change out. The compressor change out may allow
warranty for the compressor but not the labor, refrigerant, driers,
recovery, and then a new contactor.
Now, what causes a contactor to fail so soon? Short cycling of the unit, a
start capacitor without a bleed resistor or a resistor that isn't working, a
dirty condenser which raises the amperage and causes the contacts to burn
when they open from the welding arch that takes place, low voltage, moisture
causing rust and the plunger sticks on one side, blackouts, power going off
and on several times, BUGS getting in them, and of course the contactor
being rated so close to the amperage of the unit that it is marginally
sized.
I personally when changing a contactor for a residence always increase the
amperage size if possible. The cost is so little but the effect is wonderful
and will only help the system and will never hurt it. Its like using bigger
wire.
Helpful hints, make sure the condenser is always clean, check the bleed
resistor if there is a start capacitor, install a time delay relay or a
thermostat that has time delay capability, clean the contactor with contact
spray with the POWER OFF! Check wire tightness, check voltage on the hottest
day of the year because you may have good voltage in your home but not at
the unit. Low voltage raises amperage and is harmful to the system.
Hope this helps.
Rich
"Warren Bowery" <wbo...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:QUxj7.29751$ga2.1...@cletus.bright.net...
VهدrXpêrt
wrote:
>Our heat pump quit kicking out cool air Tuesday. The outside compressor unit
>would not come on. The company that installed this Lennox system two years
>ago sent a man out Wednesday to fix it. My wife said the guy checked the
>outside unit, and showed her where the contactor had a burned earwig (bug)
>fragment between the contacts. He then put in a brand new $110 contactor,
>installed it for $50, and left with $160 in his pocket.
I run into earwigs in contactors all the time. I rarely reuse the
contactor. The bug usually creates high resistance between the
contact points and burns/pits them. To save myself a call back and
customers grief I just install a new contactor since they're so cheap.
I don't know the size of your A/C but I normally charge around $15 for
a Honeywell 2 pole 24 coil 30 amp contactor (small A/C).
A 40 amp 2 pole Furnas contactor usually goes for $40.00.
Diagnostic time is minutes. My labor charge (minimum 1 hour) would be
$58 if you're local.
His labor charge was cheap but if he put in a standard contactor and
charged $110 for it you got burned.
George
SMWIA
Local 20
Brian S-
> I normally charge around $15 for
>a Honeywell 2 pole 24 coil 30 amp contactor (small A/C).
> A 40 amp 2 pole Furnas contactor usually goes for $40.00.
>
>Diagnostic time is minutes. My labor charge (minimum 1 hour) would be
>$58 if you're local.
Is Jabs snoozing?
Jim
single pole contactor is $104 + Diag $59 = $163. You can add $10 for a
40amp. Where I live that is the right in the ball park on the price. The
ones around here that charge $15 for a contactor and $59 for labor go out of
buisness. I know, it almost happen to the company I work for until they went
to a flat rate pricing guide.
"VهدrXpêrt" <vair...@killspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b8eb0a...@news.netnitco.net...
ftwandbushtoo
and wanted me to look at his a/c that quit cooling. The contactor was
pulled in and I measured voltage across it indicating an open contact.
i took my pocket screw driver out after I turn off the power and
scraped the bug out. Been fine ever since. He an old guy an I didn't
even want his money but I accepted 20 bucks to make him feel good. Six
years ago my wife fixed a friends a/c by spraying ant spray into the
contactor that was full of ants, been fine ever since. You got hosed.
Mike
UA local 370
On Thu, 30 Aug 01 21:04:15 GMT, wbo...@bright.net (Warren Bowery)
wrote:
>Our heat pump quit kicking out cool air Tuesday. The outside compressor unit
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
There is no way you should leave burnt contactors on a unit unless you
wanted to come back in 6 months or less to change them again. The only way
I would say to leave the burnt contactors on the unit would be if I thought
their check was going to be hot or just not going to pay me. Other than
this Change the contactors.
Now to the HVAC company that installed your system and did the contactor
replacement. The replacing of the contactor was in line of rightly done and
should be call Done right . Now to the being unhappy with the installation
of the unit years back. Well if you felt they did not do the installation
well or to your liking . I would run their A== off and give them a cussing.
Mc Donald has the right saing " Have it your way" .
TURTLE
HVACMAN
afford to play!!
Brian S- wrote:
--
Address munged to confuse spammers
Reply to: hva...@qwest.net
VهدrXpêrt
wrote:
>Well, I don't know where you get your prices, but in my price book, a 30amp
>single pole contactor is $104 + Diag $59 = $163. You can add $10 for a
>40amp. Where I live that is the right in the ball park on the price. The
>ones around here that charge $15 for a contactor and $59 for labor go out of
>buisness. I know, it almost happen to the company I work for until they went
>to a flat rate pricing guide.
Really???
According to my G.W. Berkheimer book I can go pick up a:
Honeywell 3 pole 60 AMP 24 volt coil contactor for $72.03 my cost.
Where are you buying your contactors from? "Designer Contactor
Boutique" located in Beverly Hills?
As far as going out of business...I work for a multi million dollar
company that's been in business for over 30 years. I would say the
largest in our local.
George
SMWIA
Local 20
Bubba
a failed part in unless you want to go back on a call back. That would
cost you 69.00 for the service/diagnostic fee. 96.00 to 137.00 for the
contactor depending if you are a "prefered customer" with a service
agreement or not. While Im there, I'll recommend a WSX-6 or SPP-6
start assist kit for 91.00 to 126.00. I'll also try to get you on our
135.00 service agreement plan which is 2 preventative maintanence tune
ups. Then I'll go inside and take a look at your furnace/air handler
and water heater to see if there are any other problems you might have
that need correcting.
Like Jabs, I have lots of toys too. Do it right the first time and
dont be afraid to charge appropriately.
Bubba
On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:10:47 -0500, "TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net>
wrote:
john becker
it had, then replace it and figure out if it was caused by the bug or some
low voltage problem. If it was just a bug and not pitted, I personally
would have removed the bug, checked ohm's, and been on my way without
changing the contactor.
John
"Warren Bowery" <wbo...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:QUxj7.29751$ga2.1...@cletus.bright.net...
richard p dawson
profft
that everyone else is. Did you factor in the 1 year warranty on the part.
And it also depends greatly on what region of the counrty your in.
"VهدrXpêrt" <vair...@killspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b8eb0a...@news.netnitco.net...
profft
the contactor is probably $143 installed so for the same job in the
Washington Metropolitan area would have been around $270 total
"Jim" <jesl...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Cwzj7.37425$Iq4.17...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...
profft
"ftwandbushtoo" <ft...@usl.com> wrote in message
news:j3htotgvmsooakhqr...@4ax.com...
VهدrXpêrt
wrote:
>You can't say thgat George, just because your so cheap on parts doesn't mean
>that everyone else is. Did you factor in the 1 year warranty on the part.
>And it also depends greatly on what region of the counrty your in.
The prices I quoted are at 100% markup.
Funny how in another thread a guy was told he was raped for being
charged $14 for a $4 capacitor. And in this thread it's ok to charge
a person $100+ for a contactor that has a list price of around $20.
>
>"VåÏrXpêrt" <vair...@killspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
safe-male
wrote:
>LOL the other week a neighbor from around back on the lake came over
>and wanted me to look at his a/c that quit cooling. The contactor was
>pulled in and I measured voltage across it indicating an open contact.
>i took my pocket screw driver out after I turn off the power and
>scraped the bug out. Been fine ever since. He an old guy an I didn't
>even want his money but I accepted 20 bucks to make him feel good. Six
>years ago my wife fixed a friends a/c by spraying ant spray into the
>contactor that was full of ants, been fine ever since. You got hosed.
>
>Mike
>UA local 370
>
tooday i'd worry the lp in the bug spray or the fuel oil in it would
burn
atr least some bug sprays smell like heating oil TOO ME
Stan
van, insurance, paid training??
CBHVAC
14 bux for a 2-4 dollar cap is not getting raped, but the point that was
being made there was simple...he called the HVAC trade a bunch of rip off
artists and such, but was happy with the markup he got from a supply
house...he THOUGHT he was paying contractor prices....and he wasn't. Its all
in the mindset of the consumer. He thought it was fair, and we thought it
was funny that he thought a 300% markup was ok...
Far as the contactor issue goes..I just ran into the same thing on a
unit...the bill was over 250 dollars for a contactor replacement...I had no
choice but to go to a Johnstone for the correct one, and it was over $89 for
a Cutler..the Furnas brand was more still...170 for the contactor, and some
labor time factored in...This was no 2 pole, 220/24vac 40 amp contactor...it
was a 75amp, 3 pole, 220/220vac for an old Carrier unit. The points were
burned, wires were loose, and its obvious that it was the
original....so...if the unit works, and it fixed his problem, and the other
tech wont be back out anytime soon for the same problem, why complain? The
guy had a problem, its fixed, and sounds like the tech did the right thing.
If it was all that easy to keep these units running, we would be out of a
job..and all the homeowners in the states would have a full set of tools to
work on the unit....
The same homeowners that complain we charge too much are the same ones that
would not work at their job for free for a day...so WHY should we?
--
"VåÏrXpêrt" <vair...@killspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b8f86d...@news.netnitco.net...
Buck153
to tell the customer when another dam bug crawls in?
Buck
SARPLT
>van, insurance, paid training??
Or, How about Denver? Same as above with a much nicer climate. Mostly
temperate year around. Not as humid and no attic systems.
dark star
> Funny how in another thread a guy was told he was raped for being
> charged $14 for a $4 capacitor. And in this thread it's ok to charge
> a person $100+ for a contactor that has a list price of around $20.
That's because the jerk was bragging about how he bought it and
bypassed paying an HVACR tech. He insinuated that he bought it at a
wholesale house, IIRC.
The $100 is the price for the contactor, delivered and installed.
The $14 is what the fool paid for the capacitor when he had to go to
the store, buy it, and install it himself.
dark star
> You union slugs are so full of shat
You're an idiot who doesn't even know what a slug is. Sheesh!
Pick some other four-letter word.
profft
what region of the country the guy's in, part of the probelm is
socialism[unionism], it distorts your view of money in the real world. In my
world here a gallon of milk costs $3.45, breads $1.10, eggs $1.20 and a
decient Ribeye Steak is $14.00. Mortgage on a 2 room shack is about $1100
and 2 kids in college, well I don't even want to go into that.. Now if all
your bringing in is a lousy $72.00 on that call and ones just like it, I
guess I could afford to pay you $7.00 maybe even $8.00 if you've got your
own tools, we'd put you in an old 68 Dodge van with no AC, Armstrong
powersteering, with Legstrong brakes.
If you want to see the real idiot, go to the bathroom, he'll be the guy
staring back at you.
"dark star" <darks...@email.com> wrote in message
news:2beb39fc.0108...@posting.google.com...
David Lesher
Is any manufacturer using SSR's? A "Solid State Relay" is a sealed
module with triacs and drivers within. They typically stand up very
well, could easily have an anti-restart timer within. They could
be a drop-in replacement, and they have no contacts to pit...
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Don Ocean
profit? After minimumcharge of course..;-)
Don Ocean
Sioux Falls, SD
Earle Edomm
always did. It seemed really CS not to do at least that and we all at least
have wasp spray which has pyrethrins in it.
Perhaps a better thread would be:
Why do ants like electricity? :-)
Earle
"Buck153" <buc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010831140919...@nso-fw.aol.com...
ftwandbushtoo
you cant accept it.
Mike
UA local 370
On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:06:41 GMT, "profft" <pro...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
ftwandbushtoo
Looks like theres a market for parts changers...
Mike
UA local 370
ftwandbushtoo
(VåÏrXpêrt) wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:00:11 GMT, "profft" <pro...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>You can't say thgat George, just because your so cheap on parts doesn't mean
>>that everyone else is. Did you factor in the 1 year warranty on the part.
>>And it also depends greatly on what region of the counrty your in.
>
>The prices I quoted are at 100% markup.
>
>Funny how in another thread a guy was told he was raped for being
>charged $14 for a $4 capacitor. And in this thread it's ok to charge
>a person $100+ for a contactor that has a list price of around $20.
>
>>
Exactly right George!
Mike
UA local 370
Jim Malone
I spoke to a West Tx. Utility guy last week and he was picking up 30
contactors
for block houses with fire-ant problems.
Jim Malone
"Earle Edomm" <co...@directlink.net> wrote in message
news:baWj7.96381$54.47...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
ftwandbushtoo
They will tell them the same BS line that the bug burned the contacts
and that will be another 200 bucks for another 20 dollar 2 pole
contactor used to replace a single pole and then go about installing
it wrong. Buck I'll bet you even money that the a/c has a trickle
circuit used as a CCH and the *tech* didn't know enough to correctly
install the replacement 2 pole. In fact I bet the tech/parts changer
eyes would glaze over if it was mentioned to him.
Mike
UA local 370
ftwandbushtoo
Mike
UA local 370
Jim
labor.news:3b8f86d...@news.netnitco.net...
Bubba
Bubba
Bubba
After I change the contactor (and all the other stuff) I let the
customer know that they would be doing themselves a favor by putting
some Diazanon (bug stuff) crystals down. I then also let them know to
trim back some of the damn bushes, weeds and all the other wood piles
and garbage they have around the condenser unit so it wont attract so
many "critters" next time.
Do they listen? No! So I just change it next time they call
and charge them again. Its not my air conditioner that doesnt work.
Mine works fine. They can treat their stuff however they want. That's
their choice.
Bubba
On 31 Aug 2001 18:09:19 GMT, buc...@aol.com (Buck153) wrote:
Jim
a bug from a contactor. The home owner finally got my recommadation from my
first visit to have around his home sprayed for bugs and haven't been back
since.
"Buck153" <buc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010831140919...@nso-fw.aol.com...
J. S. Nunes
$11 for a single pole 40 amp and retail them for $26.61....they also have
covers over the contacts to keep the ants out (big problem in the south).
Try a Universal Parts (Rheem/RUUD) part number 42-25101-03 (240v/40A)
I stock a half dozen of them on my truck and have had to use them all in a
single weekend.
So the customer pays Service call + 1st hour + contactor and I am in and out
in 15 minutes for around $150
"ftwandbushtoo" <ft...@usl.com> wrote in message
news:llf0ptcatgdr6871d...@4ax.com...
Bubba
Yup, your right. There sure is a market.................
However, consider this:
Remember when a blower motor used to last 40 years even after the "old
guy" oiled it till it ran down on the blower housing?
Remember when you saw and old Williamson or Climatrol condensing unit
30 to 40 years old, completly rusted through and still running like a
top? How about a water heater that lasted the same amount of time?
Now, tell me one piece of new equipment that will last anywhere near
that amount of time today?
Not only are we parts changers but we are equipment changers too.
3/4 hp Trane blower motors that last about 1 year. Water heaters that
are lucky to get 5-6 years of life. Inducer motors, circuit boards,
igniters, sensors and pressure switches that hardley make it a year.
90% gas furnaces that surely will huff and puff to make it through 15
years of life.
Yeah, I'll change all of it until someone comes up with parts and
equipment that lasts. I dont see that happening though.........
Bubba
On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:46:47 -0400, ftwandbushtoo <ft...@usl.com>
wrote:
Me
enough?" Isn't this a reversal of attitude ? :-))
Rich
"J. S. Nunes" <jsn...@netdoor.com> wrote in message
news:KdYj7.116007$Lw3.7...@news2.aus1.giganews.com...
AUSTIN1880
>They will tell them the same BS line that the bug burned the contacts
>and that will be another 200 bucks for another 20 dollar 2 pole
>contactor used to replace a single pole and then go about installing
>it wrong. Buck I'll bet you even money that the a/c has a trickle
>circuit used as a CCH and the *tech* didn't know enough to correctly
>install the replacement 2 pole. In fact I bet the tech/parts changer
>eyes would glaze over if it was mentioned to him.
>
>Mike
>UA local 370
>
Now theres something you dont see much at all anymore, a trickle circuit. The
old Tranes with dual run capacitors used them, thanks for the memories Mike.
Ed
Earle Edomm
admonish them to immediately salt the ant mound growing out the unit they
may not have the time for a few days. It's just a nice thing to do for
someone who wouldn't know to do it for themselves and it gives them a few
weeks to do the job correctly. They usually think it's a one in a million
occurrence that will never happen again. I'd even do it for a grizzled old
biker dude as quick as I would for a little ole' blue haired lady.
:-)
Earle
"ftwandbushtoo" <ft...@usl.com> wrote in message
news:4mg0ptgdhe3manjs2...@4ax.com...
ftwandbushtoo
Mike
On Sat, 1 Sep 2001 08:11:22 -0500, "Earle Edomm" <co...@directlink.net>
J. S. Nunes
"Me" <nob...@important.com> wrote in message
news:omZj7.28$AL5....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> What !! Aren't you the person who says "I cant help if you don't charge
> enough?" Isn't this a reversal of attitude ? :-))
Nope.... its good money in rural south Mississippi...besides the retail on
the contactor is what is published in the Universal Parts price
list....customer can't argue over price when you pull it out of the book in
front of him/her/it :-)
I will be going up another 10% on my service call and labor prices in
January tho
ftwandbushtoo
wrote:
>You union slugs are so full of shat
>
As another long weekend rolls around, it could be good to remember a
few of the gains that might not have come around if labor unions
hadn't been fighting so hard, the 40 hour work week, unemployment
insurance, pensions and workman's compensation, to name a few.
So fire up the grill, cop a great bargain, and take a dip in the pool
on Monday. But remember who it was that made this
summer ending holiday possible, the American union worker.
Enjoy your weekend brought to you by orgnized labor. Have a safe and
great weekend my brothers.
Mike
UA local 370
HVACMAN
> > a grizzled old
> >biker dude
> >Earle
> >
--
Address munged to confuse spammers
Reply to: hva...@qwest.net
Rich Berenson
knows the answer to his own question. He just wanted to see how many
variations of answers he gets from you guys! He probably has his question
posted in his service room as an example for his techs to learn from, and
hopes his guys aren't ripping each others throats out as shown here.
RTB PHX.
Me
Rich
"Rich Berenson" <rtb...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:JGCk7.4873$Uf1.3...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Warren Bowery
Hi... I am the original poster. And no, I didn't know the answer to my
question. I am just a consumer who just wanted to see if I got a fair shake
from the service guy. The majority of postings indicate that I did.
Sorry to stir up such a controversy. Thanks to all who replied!
Warren Bowery
In article <JGCk7.4873$Uf1.3...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Rich
Me
that came up with so many different views.
Rich
"Warren Bowery" <wbo...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:WARk7.30279$ga2.1...@cletus.bright.net...
Vicki
Jim Malone wrote:
>
> The ant ? is a good one, why are they drawn to contacts?
> I spoke to a West Tx. Utility guy last week and he was picking up 30
> contactors
> for block houses with fire-ant problems.
> Jim Malone
Contacts seem to be a magnet for black widow spiders here.
Every condensing unit comes with one.
Vicki
Vicki
"J. S. Nunes" wrote:
>
> I can't help it if you guys pay too much for your contactors....I pay around
> $11 for a single pole 40 amp and retail them for $26.61....they also have
> covers over the contacts to keep the ants out (big problem in the south).
Yeah, but the last guy who was there took the cover off the
contacts and left it off as he was too lazy to replace it.
Do you ever just sprinkle around the unit with diatomaceous
earth? Keeps the ants away well, and isn't toxic to people
or pets...unless you have an ant colony for pets.
Vicki
Vicki
quit to work in a non-union shop. Just wondering if it's
that way all over? IOW, "union slugs" is an oxymoron, as is
the poster using the term.
Jabarco
J. S. Nunes <jsn...@netdoor.com> wrote in message
news:KdYj7.116007$Lw3.7...@news2.aus1.giganews.com...
out
> in 15 minutes for around $150
>
Steve,
$150 for a contactor and 15 minutes? Really now, would you call that
quality service? The following is an example of quality service. Once upon
a time, a farmer wanted to breed his three female pigs. So he loaded the
sows into the back of his pickup truck and took them to visit several boars
at a nearby farm. While the pigs were getting acquainted, the first farmer
asked the second farmer, "How will I know if my pigs are pregnant?"
"That's easy," said the second farmer. "They wallow in the grass when it
takes and they wallow in the mud when it doesn't take." The next morning
the farmer awoke, looked out the window and was disappointed to find his
pigs wallowing in the mud. So he loaded them into the back of his pickup
truck and took them back to the boars. But the following morning the pigs
were still wallowing in the mud. Undaunted, the farmer once again loaded
the pigs into the truck and took them back to the boars for a third time,
hoping for some positive results. The following morning the farmer was away
from the farm, so he anxiously phoned his wife and asked, "Are they
wallowing in the grass or the mud?" "Neither" replied the farmer's wife.
"Two of them are in the back of the pickup truck and the third one's up
front blowing the horn."
Jabarco