Bryant Heat-Pump < 3 yrs old with bad TXV and Access Port?
Andrew Fields
It was installed in November of 2000.
Just today I was told my TXV valve and Access Port are bad and have to be
replaced.
My question is: How often should I expect those to go bad?
It seems a bit soon for something like that to go bad to me.
Also, how much should I expect to pay to have them replaced?
Thanks for your advice.
--
Andrew Fields
And...@Divix.biz
D-
Make him tell you precisely why your TXV valve is bad and then test
demonstrate that it is bad. Jot down what he says and the means he uses
and the numbers along with his explanation. Maybe it's something else,
like a clogged screen ahead of the TXV due to debris getting into the
system, or other problems. TXV's and access ports shouldn't be failing
that soon. What does the warranty cover. I've been retired too long to
know; some might say, perhaps too long to know anything. Time will tell.
.. .
Some one else might tell you what you might expect it to cost, but you
should have him quote a price in writing before you let him do the job.
If you don't, after the work is done, the charge could be whatever he
wants to charge! D-
--
Get the Cooling Capacity and Efficiency you Paid for -
http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditioner-capacity-seer.html
profft
"Andrew Fields" <And...@Divix.biz> wrote in message
news:lFMJa.2603465$CK1.3...@news.easynews.com...
Dr. Hardcrab
"D-" <udar...@pcii.nett> wrote
> >
> Make him tell you precisely why your TXV valve is bad and then test
> demonstrate that it is bad. Jot down what he says and the means he uses
> and the numbers along with his explanation. Maybe it's something else,
> like a clogged screen ahead of the TXV due to debris getting into the
> system, or other problems. TXV's and access ports shouldn't be failing
> that soon.
They shouldn't, but they do. Had one last week (Carrier) that was installed
in 2001. I thought maybe the screen was stopped up too, but the valve was
just bad The cap tube and bulb still had a charge (the only reason I knew
that was because our "Mr. Know-it-all" back at the office snapped it off the
power head....). I would ask the same thing as profft: Was this a "no a/c"
call or a "tune up special"?
Richard
Just a guess:
1) You have a leaking service valve so the system is low on refrigerant.
2) Your tech thought he had it charged back up because the suction
pressure was running 80-85 psig.
3) The suction line, however, was warm, confusing him that much more.
4) Had he known what he was doing he would have added the additional
refrigerant required and actually watched the suction line pressure and
temperature drop.
5) Get a second opinion. You might ask the new tech if he knows what
subcooling is, and if he is going to measure it.
>
> --
> Andrew Fields
> And...@Divix.biz
Bubba
Bubba
Was a bi-flo drier installed in your refrigerant line set?
Did the installers run the vacuum pump for a couple hours or so?
Did they use a micron gauge?
Yes, TXV valves can go bad WAY before they should.
Ask your repair man (the one that is going to fix your system) if he
knows what a micron gauge is. Ask him how long he might have to run
his vacuum pump. (20 min is Not a good response) See if he is going to
use a new bi-flo drier. Ask him how much the repair will be before he
starts. If he doesnt know any of the above in detail then you should
"Run Forest, Run"!
Bubba
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:19:21 GMT, "profft" <f.tayl...@verizon.net>
wrote:
kjpro
kjpro
ps Excellent! :-)
"Bubba" <ReMoVEl...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:lteffvspm10g05hu4...@4ax.com...
Andrew Fields
On 23-Jun-2003, "Dr. Hardcrab" <drhar...@hotmail.spamcom> wrote:
> They shouldn't, but they do. Had one last week (Carrier) that was
> installed
> in 2001. I thought maybe the screen was stopped up too, but the valve was
> just bad The cap tube and bulb still had a charge (the only reason I knew
> that was because our "Mr. Know-it-all" back at the office snapped it off
> the
> power head....). I would ask the same thing as profft: Was this a "no a/c"
> call or a "tune up special"?
This was a "no a/c" call.
What causes them to to bad "early"?
I should probably also note that the installers of this unit made the
following mistakes at install:
1) Forgot to install the heating coils (not sure how they forgot this but
when the electrician showed up, there was nothing to hook to, had to call
them out to put them in)
2) Forgot to attach 4 out of 22 vents under my house (so I got to heat the
underside of my house for 3 months before I convinced them something was
wrong and they checked them)
3) Forgot to install one of the 22 vents (they only installed 21). This
until I counted the vents and then checked each room and found the missing
vent.
4) Installed the unit thermostat in the wrong section of the house (not the
center) so it didn't heat/cool properly until it was moved.
5) Have installed a sump-pump to bleed off moisture that continuously drips
off the fan/furnace unit in the house (and this happens when it is *not*
raining so it isn't a leak in the roof).
That last one really has me puzzeled, anyone know why that much moisture
would bleed off the funace unit? Before the sump pump it would fill my
closet with 1-2 inches of standing water.
--
Andrew Fields
And...@Divix.biz
Richard
And now we know 'the rest of the story':)
Get someone else out there to assess the damages left by these
installers, er, hacks. If you know about these problems, then imagine
the problems you could have but aren't aware of. OTOH we don't know what
your role is in this dealing, for all we know you didn't 'pay' for a
professional job. Is there more to this story?
hvacrmedic
Bubba
wrote:
Time for a little math. 22 runs? Assuming all are only 6" runs, that
equates to approx 2200 cfm. You do have a 5 ton unit attached to this
system, right?
Moisture from running an ;A/C unit? "By George, Jim, Ive never heard
of that!"
Judging from the screw ups, I think we all know why the TXV went bad
early. I hope you find a competent tech/installer next time.
Bubba
Andrew Fields
On 24-Jun-2003, Bubba <ReMoVEl...@iname.com> wrote:
> Time for a little math. 22 runs? Assuming all are only 6" runs, that
> equates to approx 2200 cfm. You do have a 5 ton unit attached to this
> system, right?
** Yes,
> Moisture from running an ;A/C unit? "By George, Jim, Ive never heard
> of that!"
> Judging from the screw ups, I think we all know why the TXV went bad
> early. I hope you find a competent tech/installer next time.
> Bubba
The plot thickens...
I just had another HVAC company come out (the person that used to maintain
my heating oil furnace years ago, always I person I trusted...and kick
myself for not having *him* do the install).
Well, he tells me the following:
1) The compressor unit is only 5.75" from the house; should be 12" minimum
2) The TXV valve is fine; unit is currently running and putting out 40deg
air.
3) *both* access ports are bad; he tells me that one going bad is *rare*
this soon, and that *two* going bad is most likely caused by the installer
not wrapping them in cold rags when he performs his weld causing them to get
to hot (does this make sense to you all?)
4) He said a unit of this size should *always* have a pump to get rid of
moisture (does that sound right?)
So, I need to move the unit, replace the access ports and get the original
installer to pay for that...sound fun? I'll let you know how it goes.
--
Andrew Fields
And...@Divix.biz
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>On 24-Jun-2003, Bubba <ReMoVEl...@iname.com> wrote:
>
>> Time for a little math. 22 runs? Assuming all are only 6" runs, that
>> equates to approx 2200 cfm. You do have a 5 ton unit attached to this
>> system, right?
>
>** Yes,
>> Moisture from running an ;A/C unit? "By George, Jim, Ive never heard
>> of that!"
>> Judging from the screw ups, I think we all know why the TXV went bad
>> early. I hope you find a competent tech/installer next time.
>> Bubba
>
>
>The plot thickens...
>
>I just had another HVAC company come out (the person that used to maintain
>my heating oil furnace years ago, always I person I trusted...and kick
>myself for not having *him* do the install).
>
>Well, he tells me the following:
>1) The compressor unit is only 5.75" from the house; should be 12" minimum
And more is better.
>2) The TXV valve is fine; unit is currently running and putting out 40deg
>air.
Say what ? That is **SO** too cold !!!! You have some kind of
problem at that temp ! Maybe low airflow. The coil is going to ice
up, and you're going to have serious condensation at the registers ( =
rot ). A better target might by ~ 20 degrees less than the house
temp, IE, 55 output when it's 75 inside.
>3) *both* access ports are bad; he tells me that one going bad is *rare*
>this soon, and that *two* going bad is most likely caused by the installer
>not wrapping them in cold rags when he performs his weld causing them to get
>to hot (does this make sense to you all?)
Yes. The tiny little stem inside has rubber parts, it must
always be removed before sodlering / brazing. Luckily, it costs only
a couple of bucks ( to the customer ).
>4) He said a unit of this size should *always* have a pump to get rid of
>moisture (does that sound right?)
If he said 'get vacumned down, 'evacuated', before charging',
then yes. Any system, any size.
>So, I need to move the unit, replace the access ports and get the original
>installer to pay for that...sound fun? I'll let you know how it goes.
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~
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http://helpthecritters.com/ is my domain for helping critters
Bubba
wrote:
>
1) 5.75?! Tell him to put his micrometer away and just round it off to
6". Many units can have one side of the unit only 6 inches away from a
wall as long as the rest of it is 12 inches. Check the installation
manual of that particular condensing unit.
2) 40 degrees where? At the registers or right off the coil or where?
3) If both access ports are bad then it probably was overheated.
Actually a relatively simple fix to remove the access ports while
under pressure and still charged.
4) Pump? You talking about a condensate pump to remove the condensate
moisture from the coil unit? It only needs the pump if a gravity drain
is not available.
Id not move the unit unless absolutely necessary.
Bubba
Andrew Fields
On 26-Jun-2003, Bubba <ReMoVEl...@iname.com> wrote:
> 1) 5.75?! Tell him to put his micrometer away and just round it off to
> 6". Many units can have one side of the unit only 6 inches away from a
> wall as long as the rest of it is 12 inches. Check the installation
> manual of that particular condensing unit.
I called Bryant and they said 6" is the spec. I agree with him, though,
that it being that close will make it difficult to clean the coils on that
side.
> 2) 40 degrees where? At the registers or right off the coil or where?
I believe this was at the coils, and it seems more than that to me.
I checked when I got home and no icing occuring...the register temps seem to
be about 50-55 deg.
> 3) If both access ports are bad then it probably was overheated.
> Actually a relatively simple fix to remove the access ports while
> under pressure and still charged.
Hmmm, I was told the entire unit had to have the R-22 pumped off *before*
they could replace the access ports...
Are you telling me that they can be replaced with the system under pressure?
> 4) Pump? You talking about a condensate pump to remove the condensate
> moisture from the coil unit? It only needs the pump if a gravity drain
> is not available.
Yes, you assumed correct. The pump is there to pump off the condensation, it
works fine...but it took them 4 trips to figure out they needed to put it on
and in the meantime it wrecked the floor around my unit from the water
build-up.
> Id not move the unit unless absolutely necessary.
I agree.
> Bubba
--
Andrew Fields
And...@Divix.biz
Richard
Andrew Fields wrote:
>
> On 26-Jun-2003, Bubba <ReMoVEl...@iname.com> wrote:
>
> > 1) 5.75?! Tell him to put his micrometer away and just round it off to
> > 6". Many units can have one side of the unit only 6 inches away from a
> > wall as long as the rest of it is 12 inches. Check the installation
> > manual of that particular condensing unit.
>
> I called Bryant and they said 6" is the spec. I agree with him, though,
> that it being that close will make it difficult to clean the coils on that
> side.
>
> > 2) 40 degrees where? At the registers or right off the coil or where?
>
> I believe this was at the coils, and it seems more than that to me.
> I checked when I got home and no icing occuring...the register temps seem to
> be about 50-55 deg.
>
> > 3) If both access ports are bad then it probably was overheated.
> > Actually a relatively simple fix to remove the access ports while
> > under pressure and still charged.
>
> Hmmm, I was told the entire unit had to have the R-22 pumped off *before*
> they could replace the access ports...
> Are you telling me that they can be replaced with the system under pressure?
He must have been referring to the schrader valve cores.
Bubba
wrote:
>
>On 26-Jun-2003, Bubba <ReMoVEl...@iname.com> wrote:
>
>> 1) 5.75?! Tell him to put his micrometer away and just round it off to
>> 6". Many units can have one side of the unit only 6 inches away from a
>> wall as long as the rest of it is 12 inches. Check the installation
>> manual of that particular condensing unit.
>
>I called Bryant and they said 6" is the spec. I agree with him, though,
>that it being that close will make it difficult to clean the coils on that
>side.
>
>> 2) 40 degrees where? At the registers or right off the coil or where?
>
>I believe this was at the coils, and it seems more than that to me.
>I checked when I got home and no icing occuring...the register temps seem to
>be about 50-55 deg.
>
>> 3) If both access ports are bad then it probably was overheated.
>> Actually a relatively simple fix to remove the access ports while
>> under pressure and still charged.
>
>Hmmm, I was told the entire unit had to have the R-22 pumped off *before*
>they could replace the access ports...
>Are you telling me that they can be replaced with the system under pressure?
Yes. They make a tool that lets you remove the valve access core/s
while the system is still fully charged.
GetOut, Inc.
> >> 3) If both access ports are bad then it probably was overheated.
> >> Actually a relatively simple fix to remove the access ports while
> >> under pressure and still charged.
> >
> >Hmmm, I was told the entire unit had to have the R-22 pumped off *before*
> >they could replace the access ports...
> >Are you telling me that they can be replaced with the system under
pressure?
>
> Yes. They make a tool that lets you remove the valve access core/s
> while the system is still fully charged.
> >
core, this would explain why recovery is necessary.
As always, my opinions are just my opinions,
Tim
Andrew Fields
The original installing company came out and replaced the access ports and
TXV valve for no charge.
I told them I thought the TXV valve was fine, but they replaced it anyway.
After they replaced the parts, the system worked for 1 day, then it didn't
work for 1 day,
then it didn't work for 1 day, and it has pretty much been that way ever
since.
I had them come out yesterday, and they said that my Honeywell 3611
thermostat was in "Intelligent Recovery" and the "brain was broken"
so they put it in "conventional" mode. Well, it didn't work after they did
that, until last night at 12:22am, then the compressor turned on.
Any ideas why the system would work for a day, then stop, then work and so
on?
The system has the little "snowflake" on which to me means the compressor
should be on, but on each day it is "broken" the snowflake is on
but the compressor is not.
Any ideas?
--
Andrew Fields
And...@Divix.biz
Bubba
wrote:
>Here is the status:
Try telling your hack hvac company to temporarily take the thermostat
off the wall and put on a cheap simple plain jane one that does
nothing but manually turn it up or down. If the problem goes away, you
need a new stat. If not, you need to look elsewhere. There is actually
an easier way to diagnose things than that way but if they've already
wasted time changing a txv then they might as well have more fun this
way. Hell, for that matter, tell them to bring "one of everything" and
change them till they get it right.
Bubba
Andrew Fields
HVAC company will be here Monday to look at it *again*...
I agree with you Bubba, just tell them to bring "one of everything"...I just
wish they would listen to me...but they think they know best; I may not know
"AC" but I'm not an idiot and I know when things aren't working and how to
troubleshoot a problem.
--
Andrew Fields
And...@Divix.biz
Bubba
wrote:
>Well, it worked until about 2 hrs ago, and now it isn't working again.
Well, now dont take that "just bring one of everything" to heart. That
was meant to be VERY sarcastic. If they need a "box of parts" to fix
your problem, then you need to find another company.
Im not sure what to tell you if you are staying with the same company.
You dont know hvac and evidentially, they dont either. Sounds like a
"lose lose" situation.
Good Luck,
Bubba
HeatMan
news:p5q0hv8alf9juj5kd...@4ax.com...
Shoot, it sounds like that's what they've been doing....