R10 mixed with R22
roseszinnias
charging it with R22. How is this going to affect my air conditioner?
It's working just fine right now. Thanks for any information.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>I had a leak in my Lennox R10 A/C and a friend fixed it for me by
>charging it with R22. How is this going to affect my air conditioner?
>It's working just fine right now. Thanks for any information.
Y'er fucked.
Start saving for a new system - complete system. Outside
unit, inside unit, and piping. You can re-use the old thermostat.
Maybe your 'friend' will chip in.
BTW - WTF is 'R10' ? You meant perhaps R-410A ? 'The new
stuff' ?
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
roseszinnias
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>It's working fine right now. Why do you say I will need a new system?
Because I understand what your 'friend' did, and I know it
will break your system. And ANYONE familiar with HVAC will tell you
the same.
Think about it this way - if it were 'just fine and dandy',
don't you think it would be common practice, and widely accepted by
the industry ? Read the manuals on your system - or ANY R-410A
system, and try to find someplace where it says 'Go ahead and mix in
some R-22 if you feel like it, that's fine'.
Call Lennox and ask. Call ANY REPUTABLE dealer or
manufacturer of ANY brand and ask 'is it OK to put R-22 in my R-410A
system ?'.
On the bright side, don't worry about it, because it's too
late for worrying now. The seeds of the damage are planted, and they
are irreversible.
The system is now contaminated, the oil is contaminated, all
the internal parts are contaminated, and they can not be sufficiently
de-contaminated to save it, so there's not a lot of sense in worrying
about it now. Saving for a new system DOES make a lot of sense.
You'll be buying one soon.
Maybe your 'friend' can put it in for you.
Anthony Berlin
opposite end of the spectrum and are absolutely NOT interchangeable. 22
components including the compressor can't operate at the increased level of
operating pressures that 410a runs at. Your friend must be a real fuckin'
idiot.....but then on second thought you're the one who allowed him to hack
the equipment stands to reason...you probably aren't far behind on the
ignorant scale either. Hey!!!.......did you hear something?....That's the
sound of your compressor kissin' your ass goodbye. Call a professional next
time.
"roseszinnias" <rosesz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123993868.0...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
charging it with R22. How is this going to affect my air conditioner?
It's working just fine right now. Thanks for any information."
While running the higher pressure 410A in a R-22 system will cause problems,
I'm not sure about running the lower pressure R-22. Please read more
carefully, lest you be accused of being the, uh, the initials are F.I.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Anthony Berlin" <tbe...@bluemarble.net> wrote in message
news:42ff4459$0$22197$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
Stormin Mormon
worked on R-22 systems, and I don't know how that will affect things.
When I took my EPA certification, we were told that it's illegal to mix
refrigerants.
Did your friend use a leak detector, and at least attempt to find and repair
the leak? If not, the freon will leak out again, and you'll need more freon.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"roseszinnias" <rosesz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123992787.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Berlin
are you even posting to this thread?
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BgILe.16201$EX.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Carolina Breeze HVAC
Ask Stormy about oil misting and he will call his old boss to find out.
>
>
Stormin Mormon
I don't work with 410 A because of several reasons.
1) personal choice
2) havn't seen any 401A units in the are yet; they aren't a big enough
market share for me to invest in tooling
3) When the demand calls for servicing 410A, then I'll get the training,
tools, etc.
In the meantime, I'm not going to waste time and money to tool up for
something I don't use.
Did you figure out which one you got wrong?
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Anthony Berlin" <tbe...@bluemarble.net> wrote in message
news:42ff61c0$0$22207$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
geoman*
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <st...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:DYKLe.268$kb4....@eagle.america.net...
Man, I forgot about all the posts about his O'l Boss!!
Another thing, This EPA certification is a JOKE. Stormy has it and knows
nothing of refrigeration! Makes you wonder doesn't it?
Rich
Anthony Berlin
(1). Personal choice=Don't know anything about it.
(2). I'll play catch up to learn about it when the market forces me
to....not as a service to myself or my clients.
(3). If I do get a call on a system utilizing R-410a, fuck it I'll use the
guages I have, anyway can't be all that different from 22.
Yea, pretty much think that covers which one, you don't know anything about
it, you don't work with it, you have no certification or training with it
nor do you care for any until you are forced into it......so like I said
originally why are you posting to a thread regarding 410a to begin with. You
don't even know enough about it to know you don't like it, how in the fuck
can you offer anyone a comment on it? Except...yea I heard of it before????
> >
> >
>
>
>
Stormin Mormon
(1). Personal choice=Don't know anything about it.
CY: Wrong.
(2). I'll play catch up to learn about it when the market forces me
to....not as a service to myself or my clients.
CY: About half wrong.
(3). If I do get a call on a system utilizing R-410a, fuck it I'll use the
guages I have, anyway can't be all that different from 22.
CY: Wrong.
Yea, pretty much think that covers which one,
CY: Wrong, again. You went from ONE wrong statement, and you're up to four.
Hey, if anyone in this conversation needs to quit, you are it.
you don't know anything about
it, you don't work with it, you have no certification or training with it
nor do you care for any until you are forced into it......so like I said
originally why are you posting to a thread regarding 410a to begin with. You
don't even know enough about it to know you don't like it, how in the fuck
can you offer anyone a comment on it? Except...yea I heard of it before????
CY: You are so badly mistaken that I'm wondering if you have a guardian
angel. If you were this badly mistaken (combined with insulting) to anyone
else on the list, you woulda been flamed to a crisp by now. Your guardian
angel is working overtime.
Stormin Mormon
thought the OP said the friend put 410A into a 22 system. Since you're not
only mistaken about me, but can't read emails, how can you repair anything?
Hey, bet you're fun on service calls. The customer tells you what's going
on, you get it all wrong. And then you go treat the system based on what the
customer didn't say? How can you comment on ANYTHING when everything
you say is mistaken?
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Anthony Berlin" <tbe...@bluemarble.net> wrote in message
news:42ffb6a3$0$32194$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
Anthony Berlin
different wording.... but the jist of what you said is still intact. You
don't know anything about the refrigerant, you don't intend to learn
anything about the refrigerant, you don't intend to buy any tooling for
it.....oh wait a minute...are you an Amana dealer? I know they pretty much
stand alone with regards to manufacturers and apparently yourself. Just
ignore 410a and it will go away...guess what it's not going to. And then
with your attitude towards it, when you get called out on a system that has
a big pink sticker on the service panel what are you going to do?
Bluff....or walk away? So you are not only offering limited service to your
clients, you are limiting yourself professionally and personally. I live and
provide service in a relatively rural territory and there are dozens and
possibly hundreds of them already pumping. And with regards to your first
post or two you openly state," you don't know the affects it will have". Do
you go to webMD and voice your opinions on things there that you don't
understand as well? R410a is THE preferred alternative to R22 by every
equipment manufacturer in the USA with the exception of Amana. What's that
tell ya?news:dJPLe.16698$EX.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Joseph
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dJPLe.16698$EX.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Anthony Berlin" <tbe...@bluemarble.net> wrote in message
> news:42ffb6a3$0$32194$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>
>
> (1). Personal choice=Don't know anything about it.
> CY: you nailed it.
> (2). I'll play catch up to learn about it when the market forces me
> to....not as a service to myself or my clients.
> CY: Maybe I'll switch to locksmithing.
> (3). If I do get a call on a system utilizing R-410a, fuck it I'll use the
> guages I have, anyway can't be all that different from 22.
> CY: R22 is all the boss lets me carry.
> Yea, pretty much think that covers which one,
> CY: Right again. You went from ONE true statement, and you're up to four.
> Hey, if anyone in this business needs to quit, I am it.
> you don't know anything about
> it, you don't work with it, you have no certification or training with it
> nor do you care for any until you are forced into it......so like I said
> originally why are you posting to a thread regarding 410a to begin with.
You
> don't even know enough about it to know you don't like it, how in the fuck
> can you offer anyone a comment on it? Except...yea I heard of it
before????
> CY: You are so correct that I'm wondering if you have a guardian
> angel. If you were this correct (combined with insulting) to anyone
> else on the list, you woulda been applauded by now. Your guardian
> angel is working overtime.
CY:
You are not a part of this group and until you shut up and listen you
may never be... ever. You talk to anyone here except the HOs and you'll get
slapped or ignored. And no he doesn't like you either, he is just a good
Christian.
Stormin Mormon
Do you get paid extra for being an accusatory jerk?
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Anthony Berlin" <tbe...@bluemarble.net> wrote in message
news:42ffcccd$0$32197$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
sixf...@sccoast.net
To Roseszinnias:
The R-22 he put in will not mix with the POE oil in your system. So
the small amount of oil that constantly circulates with the refrigerant
will hang up in the evaporator coil. The compressor will seize when it
eventually runs out of oil, because the oil that is pumped out of the
compressor will never come back.
Have a pro come and recover all of the refrigerant in the system. Then
he needs to pull a hard vacuum for at least an hour. Then he needs to
pay at least $7.00 a pound to incinerate the mixed refrigerant, plus
shipping costs. Then he needs to properly recharge the system with
R-410a refrigerant.
If you get it done soon enough, you can save your system. If not, you
will need a new compressor, and you will have to get all the extra oil
out of the evaporator coil somehow or you will have still more
problems. You will still have to pay to incinerate the improperly
mixed refrigerant. And don't vent it, the fine is now up to
$30,000.00!! Don't delay, it is your money that you are saving.
Stretch
Stormin Mormon
mixing refrigerants is illegal. However, that was in 1995. I had a look at
the EPA website this morning, and can't find any prohibition.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
<sixf...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
news:1124074800.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Chris, It's not illegal to mis refrigerants, just stupid.
Stretch
Barry
Hard Vaccum!!!! One hour, hmmmmmmmm?
Barry
Stormin Mormon
water. Hard to get the water out. Unlike the old mineral oils where 400
microns for "awhile" would do. I hope they come up with some super duper
filter driers, cause that deep vacuum for an hour gets to be a pain.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Barry" <b2b...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:48s1g1h8l68d950dn...@4ax.com...
On 14 Aug 2005 20:01:17 -0700, sixf...@sccoast.net wrote:
>Have a pro come and recover all of the refrigerant in the system. Then
>he needs to pull a hard vacuum for at least an hour. Then he
Carolina Breeze HVAC
> Aparently the new POE is massively hygroscopic, and really holds on to the
> water. Hard to get the water out. Unlike the old mineral oils where 400
> microns for "awhile" would do. I hope they come up with some super duper
> filter driers, cause that deep vacuum for an hour gets to be a pain.
>
> --
Do you even OWN a micron guage?
IF so, what brand Chris?
geoman*
>
> To Roseszinnias:
> The R-22 he put in will not mix with the POE oil in your system.
That is not correct, its the other way around. You can use R-22 with POE oil
but not R-410A with mineral oil.
> So
> the small amount of oil that constantly circulates with the refrigerant
> will hang up in the evaporator coil. The compressor will seize when it
> eventually runs out of oil, because the oil that is pumped out of the
> compressor will never come back.
This portion is true if it was mineral oil with R-410a but not the other way
around.
>
> Have a pro come and recover all of the refrigerant in the system. Then
> he needs to pull a hard vacuum for at least an hour. Then he needs to
> pay at least $7.00 a pound to incinerate the mixed refrigerant, plus
> shipping costs. Then he needs to properly recharge the system with
> R-410a refrigerant.
>
> If you get it done soon enough, you can save your system. If not, you
> will need a new compressor, and you will have to get all the extra oil
> out of the evaporator coil somehow or you will have still more
> problems. You will still have to pay to incinerate the improperly
> mixed refrigerant. And don't vent it, the fine is now up to
> $30,000.00!! Don't delay, it is your money that you are saving
> Stretch
I guess I'm going against the flow a little here. If I'm incorrect I'm sure
I will be corrected in .....how fast is the internet going these days??
:-))))) I do agree with Paul and a few others, but I think some people have
a few things mixed up.
First, I don't believe adding R-22 has any concerns with oil return
problems. Notice, I am only saying oil RETURN problems and not including
other oil related issues. The R410A systems have POE oil in them and there
is no reason you can't use POE oil in R-22 system except for cost and
service problems with moisture.
POE oil can be used in any HFC system and it is miscible and compatable
with all flurocarbon refrigerants. Cost and other future related problems
doesn't make it a wise chose for R22 but it does work well with it. R-22
refrigeration system all come with ALka Benz now and I don't think a single
compressor comes through with mineral any longer.
Secondly, a great deal depends upon how much R-22 was put into this system.
If the dude put 2 pounds in a 6 pound charge then the system has 30% of
R-22. This is a HUGE problem. The more 22 the worse the problem. I'm not
saying some R22 is ok, I'm just saying that the more the worse, and the
reason is the design of the compressor. The R410A has smaller displacement,
up to 40% less due to the heat carrying capacity of R410a. The more R22 put
into the system the harder the compresor has to work, the hotter the
cylinder walls become, and the compressor just keeps wearing out at an
accellerated speed!! And we all know that once compressors start the wear,
metal shavings, carbon and acids start to do their damage to the entire
system, resticting TXV's, slides on reversing relays, it just keeps going
down hill from the time the guy opened the can or 22!!! This compressor
is killing itself due to higher cylinder wall heat, which lowers
lubrication, I believe the compression ratio is INCREASED if I'm reading the
numbers correctly with R22 vs 410A and thus the normal stroke of the piston
is now experiencing the same force as a five pound hammer hitting the
pistons wrist pins and crankshaft !! The valves will start to plate with
carbon and copper oxides due to excessive heat, oil will become less viscous
due to the heat and break down and then provide more carbon and less
lubrication. Then the cylinder walls will allow oil blow and the this
traveling oil INSULATES the coils so they don't remove the required and
designed heat, then this causes a problem with saturated oil returning to
the compressor washing the bearings out!! The efficency loss from all these
things happening will cause the engergy bill to go up, run longer and longer
and move less and less heat, the longer run time means less compressor life
and more damage and then the cycle contines. This may run for a few years
and the electric bill just keeps climbing and your wife accuses you of
turning down the darn stat all the time!!! The amperage of the compressor
continues to clime, raising the utility bill higher and causing MORE heat,
more damage. This homeowner will call in a company to fix it and the
pressures will be off, he'll adjust the charge and say everything is OK but
that night it never pulls down. He calls back the repair man two or three
times and nothing gets better because the repair man can't see the oil
coating the inside of the condensers and evaporators, so the Homeowner calls
another company out, AFTER he stopped payment of the check from the previous
company that was a "CROOK!!"" This company can't do anything either so they
over charge then undercharge the system, plays with the air flow and
dampers. The Homeowner gets upset with this one and then comes to this
newsgroup and complains about how stupid everyone in this field is and how
he stopped payment and how they overcharged him for the six hours they tried
to fix something that the HOMEOWNER posioned with the wrong refrigerant!!!
Then Paul tells him the truth that he is an IDIOT and to get his ASS OUT OF
HERE, the homeowner then calls all of us rude and other terrible names and
states that everyone in the field are CROOKS an we make too much money!!!
All this because this guys buddy was an idiot who put R22 in a 410 system.
Amazing isnt! These two are sssslllllooooowwwwllllyyyy murdering this
system and WE are rude, crude, crooks, and the buddy who does it for free
has no fault.
So, Paul and others were correct, I just expounded what they were warning
you about.
Go ahead Paul, tell this guy what to do again.........................
Good article.
http://www.copeland-corp.com/co/co_6_4_.htm#Q1
BTW, it is NOT illegal to mix refrigerants. Read this
http://www.refrigerants.com/faq.htm
Working with R-410A GOOD article.
http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/410.htm
Talks about R-22 oil return problem, (I didn't know about adding 5% or so of
propane, isobutane, its easier to put Alka in,
http://yarchive.net/ac/r22.html
Anybody hear of Jim from National Refrigerants lately? Paul, any word? He
would have some interesting things to say about this I'm sure.
Rich
>
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Secondly, a great deal depends upon how much R-22 was put into this system.
>If the dude put 2 pounds in a 6 pound charge then the system has 30% of
>R-22. This is a HUGE problem. The more 22 the worse the problem. I'm not
>saying some R22 is ok, I'm just saying that the more the worse, and the
snippedy snip
>All this because this guys buddy was an idiot who put R22 in a 410 system.
>Amazing isnt! These two are sssslllllooooowwwwllllyyyy murdering this
>system and WE are rude, crude, crooks, and the buddy who does it for free
>has no fault.
>
>So, Paul and others were correct, I just expounded what they were warning
>you about.
>Go ahead Paul, tell this guy what to do again.........................
Nah, I already told him once :-)
BTW - excellent post. *Almost* good enough to make me
overlook all that mormon shit :-)
Now, if you had just covered ONE MORE LITTLE THING...... thta
I don't see ANYONE else mentioning ......
WHY did it 'need topping off' ? Could it be ....... SATAN
????? OR maybe there's a LEAK !!!!!!
Like you said, lord only knows how much 22 the idiot put in,
or what pressures it's running - similar to R-22 ? similar to 410A ?
And you mentioned the increased temperatures .... but I don't
recall you mentioning the oil breakdown because of them. Well, OK,
you at the very least suggested it.
And now that burnt acidic broken-down oil, the 'contamination'
of which I spoke in my earlier post, is totally spread throughout the
system - piping, eveap, and condensor.
The only PRAYER of fixing the existing system is to treat it
like a bad burn-out, with multiple high-acid filter changes, multiple
complete oil changes, etc.
Now, how likely is a guy who 'got his friend to come and dump
in some R-22' going to be to PAY for all that ????
>Anybody hear of Jim from National Refrigerants lately? Paul, any word? He
>would have some interesting things to say about this I'm sure.
Sorry, not recently. But I think your links covered it rather
well.
Now if I could just get you to move that religion crop to some
other group :-(
Tekkie®
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.
> Hard Vaccum!!!! One hour, hmmmmmmmm?
>
> Barry
>
Dat be one sukka!!!!
--
Tekkie
RP
http://www.earthscape.org/r1/etf01/crj02.html
The 410-A compressor pumps a "lower" volume per rated ton than a 22
compressor. Recovering the charge out of a 410-A system and replacing
with R-22 will result in a reduced load on the compressor motor.
hvacrmedic
geoman*^
"RP" <no_mail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124148416.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I may have to reverse my thinking on some of my post if RP is correct. I
emailed an expert to give us some of his knowledge in this area,
If this is the case, then your thinking is the amperage will go down instead
of up? I see were your coming from
Rich
RP
Assuming a piston coil, the 410-A system with a 22 charge will operate
fine. The motor would be higher in HP than necessary, tonnage would drop
some.
If you want to compare the relative pumping volumes of compressors
designed for various refrigerants, then just look at the pressure
differential. Higher differential mean lower volume per HP. The reason
should be obvious.
Thus, for instance, an R-22 compressor can be used for R-12, but an R-12
compressor would burn up in an R-22 system. This shouldn't be taken as a
blanket statement, since compressors aren't all made equal, nor are
systems. Also the latent heat of refrigerants aren't all equal, and
don't necessarily follow similar curves.
hvacrmedic
geoman*^
> Assuming a piston coil, the 410-A system with a 22 charge will operate
> fine. The motor would be higher in HP than necessary, tonnage would drop
> some.
>
> If you want to compare the relative pumping volumes of compressors
> designed for various refrigerants, then just look at the pressure
> differential. Higher differential mean lower volume per HP. The reason
> should be obvious.
>
> Thus, for instance, an R-22 compressor can be used for R-12, but an R-12
> compressor would burn up in an R-22 system. This shouldn't be taken as a
> blanket statement, since compressors aren't all made equal, nor are
> systems. Also the latent heat of refrigerants aren't all equal, and don't
> necessarily follow similar curves.
>
> hvacrmedic
I don't know why or how I misread the charts. The differences between 22 and
410A show that 410A is more dense in both liquid and vapor form. I must to
have written them down incorrectly the first time. I assumed with reading
the charts incorrectly that the amperage of the unit would go up.
Here are the specifics of the three refrigerants all rated at 50F
temperature
Refrigerant PSIA Density Liquid Density Vapor
Enthalpy Liquid Enthalpy Vapor Entropy Liquid Entropy VAPOR
R12 61.3 85.10 1.510
19.62 83.17 .04207
.1668
R22 98.8 77.83 1.799
24.51 109.1 .05244
.2185
410A 157.4 156.9 2.606
31.27 120.9 .06668
.2426
Its interesting that the R12 Liquid is more dense than the 22 but the vapor
is less dense. But both 410A's liquid and vapor density is greater than 22.
I believe I read Copeland saying that the 410A compressor is designed about
40% less in vapor volume capacity.
So, with this information could the system have:
1. Lower Amperage?
2. Poorer oil return?
3 Lower head and suction pressures (I assume not by much if the percentage
of 22 isn't that great)
4 If this is a heat pump, then oil return is a much larger concern ?
5 Less efficiency for sure.
6. What about the over all charge, if you were servicing it do you think the
charge would require more or less gas? I don't honestly know at this point.
Any other ideas ? Low ambient operation would be affected as well.
Since there isn't any engineering tables for field screw ups, this could
become a nightmare for future repairs.
We know for certain that the efficiency will drop according to the
percentage of 22 that was installed.
I still can't believe that 22 was put into this system, it just does not
make sense!
Rich.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>Assuming a piston coil, the 410-A system with a 22 charge will operate
>fine. The motor would be higher in HP than necessary, tonnage would drop
>some.
What pressures do you figure he 'topped it off' to, this 'R22
on top of R410A' genius ? I wonder how much moisture he got in from
his R-22 hoses, that undoubetedly were not clean, and not purged.....
http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/410.htm
" A typical R-22 system operating normally with a head pressure of
260 psig at a 120-degree condensing temperature and a low side
pressure of 76 psig at a 45-degree evaporator saturation temperature
will find the equivalent pressures in a R-410A system to be much
higher.
A normally operating R-410A system with the same condensing
temperature of 120 degrees and a 45 degree evaporator saturation
temperature will have a high side pressure of 418 psig and a low side
pressure of 130 psig."
Is he running R-22 at 400 + PSIG discharge, I wonder ? How
much higher on a hot day ?
Care to speculate what happens then ? My guess would be R-22
breakdown, followed by acid contamination, followed by new system
quote :-)
geoman*^
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:8ku4g1dpp4a9k6kkj...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:48:33 -0500, RP <no_mail...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Assuming a piston coil, the 410-A system with a 22 charge will operate
>>fine. The motor would be higher in HP than necessary, tonnage would drop
>>some.
>
> What pressures do you figure he 'topped it off' to, this 'R22
> on top of R410A' genius ? I wonder how much moisture he got in from
> his R-22 hoses, that undoubetedly were not clean, and not purged.....
>
> http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/410.htm
>
> " A typical R-22 system operating normally with a head pressure of
> 260 psig at a 120-degree condensing temperature and a low side
> pressure of 76 psig at a 45-degree evaporator saturation temperature
> will find the equivalent pressures in a R-410A system to be much
> higher.
>
> A normally operating R-410A system with the same condensing
> temperature of 120 degrees and a 45 degree evaporator saturation
> temperature will have a high side pressure of 418 psig and a low side
> pressure of 130 psig."
>
> Is he running R-22 at 400 + PSIG discharge, I wonder ? How
> much higher on a hot day ?
>
> Care to speculate what happens then ? My guess would be R-22
> breakdown, followed by acid contamination, followed by new system
> quote :-)
Excellent points, Paul. Your post also makes me wonder if the unit will run
like a system with non condensable in it since the 22 will never condense at
those pressures and throwing the next service guy off base because of that.
Taking up precious space in the condenser that runs at 400+ condensing
pressure!!! It may act like an undersized coil???
The hoses are a definite thing to consider. If the guy was stupid enough to
do this I can just imagine what was in the hoses!!!
Speaking of those pressures, I think all the 22 will log as a vapor in the
condenser, so he would have to bleed it across his gauges to get the 22 into
the evaporator for leak checking!! At least the guys manifold got cleaned!!
Rich
RP
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:48:33 -0500, RP <no_mail...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Assuming a piston coil, the 410-A system with a 22 charge will operate
>>fine. The motor would be higher in HP than necessary, tonnage would drop
>>some.
>
>
> What pressures do you figure he 'topped it off' to, this 'R22
> on top of R410A' genius ? I wonder how much moisture he got in from
> his R-22 hoses, that undoubetedly were not clean, and not purged.....
>
> http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/410.htm
>
> " A typical R-22 system operating normally with a head pressure of
> 260 psig at a 120-degree condensing temperature and a low side
> pressure of 76 psig at a 45-degree evaporator saturation temperature
> will find the equivalent pressures in a R-410A system to be much
> higher.
>
> A normally operating R-410A system with the same condensing
> temperature of 120 degrees and a 45 degree evaporator saturation
> temperature will have a high side pressure of 418 psig and a low side
> pressure of 130 psig."
>
> Is he running R-22 at 400 + PSIG discharge, I wonder ? How
> much higher on a hot day ?
Correction: R-22/R-410A mixture at 400+discharge. And since we're
dealing with partial pressures here, we can go to the ideal gas laws and
find that the heat of compression will be a function of the pressure
differential and of the net specific heat of the mixture. I don't
believe it will be altered significantly with a minor quantity of R-22
present.
> Care to speculate what happens then ? My guess would be R-22
> breakdown, followed by acid contamination, followed by new system
> quote :-)
Actually I've had dealings with this all ready (not my doings mind you,
R-22 dumped in by mistake by someone else), and no harm was done to the
system. I just recovered the mixture, replaced the dryer, pulled a
vacuum, and charged back with 410-A. Good as new, and still working
fine. It ran with 4lb R-22 in it for over a month. I can also show you
an R-500 system that has had R-22 dumped into it and run that way for
years, very many years.
hvacrmedic
Joseph
"geoman*^" <Geoma*R.s@.com> wrote in message
news:y_6dnexmQoM...@adelphia.com...
That's what I was trying to decide. What if your the guy that comes
out to fix this guys mistake. What would be the telling signs it had been
loaded with R22??? I am guessing after scratching my head for a while I
would pump it down and refill it. Thinking it was non condensables as you
said or oil return??? Would it look like it were undercharged after you
pumped out the R22, less weight in R22??? Before reading this thread I
don't know if I would have been on the look out for this type of problem and
never even considered how it would perform in this state.
Interesting thread guys, Joseph
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Of course, much depends on how much was put in.
Apparently, the system was not cooling, which, if caused by
lack of refrigerant, suggests a major loss. And a leak no one else
seems much concerend with.
Then the question remains ' how much 22 was put in ?'.
>
>
>> Care to speculate what happens then ? My guess would be R-22
>> breakdown, followed by acid contamination, followed by new system
>> quote :-)
>
>Actually I've had dealings with this all ready (not my doings mind you,
>R-22 dumped in by mistake by someone else), and no harm was done to the
>system. I just recovered the mixture, replaced the dryer, pulled a
>vacuum, and charged back with 410-A. Good as new, and still working
If he gets it fixed soon enough, he could get away with it.
PrecisionMachinisT
"Joseph" <jrpi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11g56ga...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> That's what I was trying to decide. What if your the guy that comes
> out to fix this guys mistake. What would be the telling signs it had been
> loaded with R22???
From what I gather, you weigh it out, take temp/pressure readings and then
consult your charts--whatever in the hell it is....it ain't listed, eh ???
> I am guessing after scratching my head for a while I
> would pump it down and refill it.
IIRC, by law, refrigerants aren't to be put back into any system other than
the one from which it was removed unless they've been reclaimed and have
been certified as to purity......
'Recycling' v/s 'reclaiming'....
> Thinking it was non condensables as you
> said or oil return??? Would it look like it were undercharged after you
> pumped out the R22, less weight in R22??? Before reading this thread I
> don't know if I would have been on the look out for this type of problem
and
> never even considered how it would perform in this state.
I can imagine any number of possible scenarios, depending upon the actual
mix.......
--
SVL
Joseph
"PrecisionMachinisT" <precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qZGdnSq-dsU...@scnresearch.com...
>
> "Joseph" <jrpi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:11g56ga...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> >
> > That's what I was trying to decide. What if your the guy that
comes
> > out to fix this guys mistake. What would be the telling signs it had
been
> > loaded with R22???
>
> From what I gather, you weigh it out, take temp/pressure readings and then
> consult your charts--whatever in the hell it is....it ain't listed, eh ???
>
> > I am guessing after scratching my head for a while I
> > would pump it down and refill it.
Should have said "refill it with new"
>
> IIRC, by law, refrigerants aren't to be put back into any system other
than
> the one from which it was removed unless they've been reclaimed and have
> been certified as to purity......
>
> 'Recycling' v/s 'reclaiming'....
With out looking I believe an institution can recover and reuse in
other units that they own. The cost of freon is not high enough for me to
play that game yet, possibly putting equipment at risk in the process.
Joseph
PrecisionMachinisT
>
> "PrecisionMachinisT" <precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:qZGdnSq-dsU...@scnresearch.com...
> >
> > "Joseph" <jrpi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:11g56ga...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > >
> > > That's what I was trying to decide. What if your the guy that
> comes
> > > out to fix this guys mistake. What would be the telling signs it had
> been
> > > loaded with R22???
> >
> > From what I gather, you weigh it out, take temp/pressure readings and
then
> > consult your charts--whatever in the hell it is....it ain't listed, eh
???
> >
> > > I am guessing after scratching my head for a while I
> > > would pump it down and refill it.
>
> Should have said "refill it with new"
>
> >
> > IIRC, by law, refrigerants aren't to be put back into any system other
> than
> > the one from which it was removed unless they've been reclaimed and have
> > been certified as to purity......
> >
> > 'Recycling' v/s 'reclaiming'....
>
> With out looking I believe an institution can recover and reuse in
> other units that they own. The cost of freon is not high enough for me to
> play that game yet, possibly putting equipment at risk in the process.
>
FWIW : I was notified offline just a bit ago that r410 is in itself a
'mix'....R 32 and r125......
And that in the event of a leak, one part of the mix does tend to boil off
more quickly, thus skewing the weight /temp ratio--dunno if this is all true
or not, but this particular source usually happens to be pretty reliable.
--
SVL
Gord Johnston
>
>
> Actually I've had dealings with this all ready (not my doings mind you,
> R-22 dumped in by mistake by someone else), and no harm was done to the
> system. I just recovered the mixture, replaced the dryer, pulled a vacuum,
> and charged back with 410-A. Good as new, and still working fine. It ran
> with 4lb R-22 in it for over a month. I can also show you an R-500 system
> that has had R-22 dumped into it and run that way for years, very many
> years.
>
> hvacrmedic
Do these 410 systems have the same 1/4" flare service fittings or something
different? R 500 (Carrene) and R22 were much more alike than 22 and 410 me
thinks , Gord
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<precision...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>And that in the event of a leak, one part of the mix does tend to boil off
>more quickly, thus skewing the weight /temp ratio--dunno if this is all true
>or not, but this particular source usually happens to be pretty reliable.
It is a zeotrope, but with very very slight fractionation (
glide ), to the point where it can be ignored.
This should clear it right up for you
http://allchemi.com/img/refregerants/ris2.gif
http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/410.htm
FOR CHARGING, yes needs to be done in liquid. But for 'topping off'
after leaks - not a problem, as re : 'changes in the mixture in the
system'. Just put liquid in.
http://www.dupont.com/suva/na/usa/about/genfaq.html
"Q: If there is a leak in an R-410A system, does the entire charge
have to be replaced or can the system be topped off?
A: Since R-410A acts very much like a single component refrigerant,
any change in composition is minimal. The system can be topped off
without removing the entire charge. This can be done several times
over, however, the leak should be repaired before topping off. Repair
the leak. Add enough R-410A to bring back to normal charge level.
Remove R-410A from the cylinder as a liquid."
Weasel and Stormy - go take two aspirins each and ignore the
big words above.
RP
An article that covers this subject.
http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/october98/features/refrig/refrig.html
hvacrmedic
RP
Gord Johnston wrote:
They are exactly the same, what are you rambling about?
hvacrmedic
PrecisionMachinisT
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:oac5g1h3ujcn3cu6d...@4ax.com...
Thx to Paul and also Richard....
As Ive said before, being a 'usenet troll' isnt always easy--but someone's
gotta do it ......
This :
"With all else being equal, it is possible to manufacture an R-410A air
conditioning system that is physically smaller using less refrigerant and a
smaller compressor than an R-22 system of the same capacity and SEER
rating."
And this :
Refrigerant 410A was developed to replace refrigerant 22 because R-22 is
being phased out due to its ozone depletion potential. R-410A has no ozone
depletion potential but does have a higher global warming potential.
However, according to experts, the overall global warming potential with
R-410A should decrease because of its higher efficiency reducing power plant
emissions.
Combine to really hit home with me, beings I'm kinda in the manufacturing
end of things.
--
SVL
PrecisionMachinisT
Dunno, most what I know is from reading this group and if something dont
jibe, then I go ahead and look it up myself--if it was true curiosity killed
the cat then we'd all be dead by now that's for sure..........
Joseph, you always seem to be sincere, and that does go quite a long ways in
my own book.
Still, much depends on one's own definition of sincerity, I have to spose.
--
SVL
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
I don't know of the 410-A gases but I do know about dumping R-22 in the Older
Lennox R-500 systems. When R-500 systems are filled with R-22. The system will
work fine but they btu ability drops on it. If you want the btu rating of the
unit back. You got to change the /txv and have a TXV rated for R-22.
All the R-500 units we put in , in the 70's are gone now, but when someone says
R-410-A --- i think ---- R-500 again.
TURTLE
geoman*^
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:xKGMe.20931$Rm3....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Interesting Points, Turtle.
Two Questions for you
1. Those r500 units that were charged with 22, did they have major oil
return problems?
2. In your opinion, are you saying that you could take a 410A system and
charge it with 22 all the way without any problems/?
I remember getting into the trade when 500 was getting out. Had an old
Chrysler AirTemp, water cooled unit. Talk about a nice delta T, I bet the
once I worked on had 35 degrees temp differnce :-)
Rich
>
geoman*^
RP, I can honestly say I haven't kept up with your posts in the past, but
have immensely enjoyed your input on this subject. Thanks for setting me
straight on the density of the gases. This one issue could have affected my
service and diagnostics greatly in the future.
This is what this group is about, helping and education of Skilled
tradesman, not answering Homemowners or Homegroaners questions. Maybe others
will catch on after awhile and ignore them as many already do.
Rich
TURTLE
"geoman*^" <Geoma*R.s@.com> wrote in message
This is Turtle.
There was no oil problems for by putting in 22 in the place of 500. I rarely had
any problems after the 22 was put in the 500's for i rarely ever had to change a
compressor on these 500 units and i don't remember at all changing one after
some wanted the change over. People with money got a TXV change when switching
and if the people without money got the 500 txv and then 22 . Some of the just
plan switching the freon from 500 to 22 and nothing else. These units run for 5
to 15 years swiched like this and the reason they were changed is for just being
old and small repairs of blower motors and heat chambers. Now these units were
10 to 15 years old already to start with. Also the Temperature Differencial was
about 12 to 15 or so and not the 20+++ºF
Now the 410-A system being run on 22. I have no ideal until i get to see and
know about the crazys around here that trys it and i get to watch them run for a
few years. Now i'm just guessing here as to what i say. I think you might be
able to run 22 in a 410-A system but not vise versa. After reading what Richard
Perry wrote about it and what said above , I will say you may have trouble with
410-A freon in a 22 system.
TURTLE
RP
Seems to me that you tracked that one down yourself, but I'll gladly
take credit if you insist. :)
> This one issue could have affected my
> service and diagnostics greatly in the future.
>
> This is what this group is about, helping and education of Skilled
> tradesman, not answering Homemowners or Homegroaners questions. Maybe others
> will catch on after awhile and ignore them as many already do.
Impossible to do, after all, this very thread was started by a
homeowner. The give us something to argue over :)
hvacrmedic
geoman*^
I would never run 22 in the 410A, I was just curious about your thoughts on
the idea since the 500's were running with 22 in them.
This whole thread has been extremely interesting.
I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't come out with a different access
fitting for the 410A due to the major differences between that and 22. I can
see people on a unit out of gas and thinking its a 22 unit.
I have about 12 units out there with 410 a, all self contained. I won't put
any quages on them until there is a problem. Man, I home I'm in the nursing
home when they start to fail
Rich
Joseph
I bite my tongue a lot... :)
>
> Still, much depends on one's own definition of sincerity, I have to spose.
thx
> --
>
> SVL
>
>
Mihaela Mihaylova
You can tell when something is a blend(mix) by its number. All 400s and 500s
are blends. 400 are zeotropes (sometimes called near-azeotropes) and 500s
are azeotropes (i.e. behave like non-blends).
The rest are named as follows:
* The first digit from the right is the number of F atoms.
* The second digit from the right is the number of H atoms plus 1.
* The third digit from the right is the number of C atoms minus 1. If this
number is zero, omit it.
* The Cl, one can calculate from the above 3.
the small letters like "a,b,c,d..." represent different molecular
arrangements. This means that R-134a and R-134b have the same atoms in its
molecules but the atoms are arranged defiantly which yields different
properties.
The A B C at the end for any given number are for blends and denote the
sequence in which they came on the market. A came first, B second etc (this
is assuming same R number). They are made of the same compounds but in
different percentages.
Not that it matters but I found it interesting....
Mihaela
"PrecisionMachinisT" <precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3OKdnZ2dnZ2GXv7XnZ2dn...@scnresearch.com...
TURTLE
"geoman*^" <Geoma*R.s@.com> wrote in message
This is Turtrle.
Hey i got the word from some Installers and service companys of the Carrier
410-A and they love them. i talk to one that had good sence and he said just
get out of the thinking of 70 psi is a good suction pressure and start think
over 100 psi is normal. also don't worry about the high head pressure for they
will scare you if you let it. From what they are saying , it is not going to be
a big deal at all when the 410-A equipment is the only stuff you can buy.
I will tell you one more here. There is the Puron / AZ-20 / 410-A stuff but
there is a walk-in freezer stuff just like Az-20 and it is R-507 / AZ-50 . i
used this AZ-50 3 or 4 times it just come common to work with it. I think this
410-A stuff just need to be gotten use to it.
TURTLE
Gord Johnston
equipment, I have not seen R410 systems so I asked a question. The auto
industry solved the possibility of cross contamination in 1994 by changing
the access ports. Seems like a good idea. Sorry I rambled Doc.
Gord
RP
Gord Johnston wrote:
Never mind me. There's no excuse sometimes :)
Actually I'm very happy that the ports are the same. If we didn't have
some standardization taking place in the industry, then we would need a
U-Haul to run service calls. They recently started selling R-22/R-410-A
combo gauges. A fellow tech has a set. Wish I had held out a few months
before buying that last set of R-410-A-only gauges.
As for cross contamination, well it's only done by hacks, newbies, and
the occasional highly distracted pro. It's up to us to check that shit
first, and that huge pink sticker is a dead giveaway.
I also wouldn't doubt that the occasional pissy homeowner gets his
system cross charged on purpose. I don't condone such activity however.
hvacrmedic
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:xKGMe.20931$Rm3....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Stormin Mormon
instead of 1/4 flare, to prevent mixing gasses. Guess that didn't happen.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.
"Gord Johnston" <t642...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:2eTMe.187799$9A2.160549@edtnps89...
Tekkie®
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.
> If memory serves, R500 and R502 are a mixture of R-22 and one other gas.
>
For you Stumped that would be fart gas.
--
Tekkie
sixf...@sccoast.net
On the oil issue, and some others, I stand corrected. Your post is
very good. I believe if the OP recovers the refrigerant and recharges
with the proper amount of R-410a, the systerm can be saved if it is
done in time. BTW, If the system is Lennox, the compressor is a
scroll.
But if the OP waits too long, all the things you said will come to
pass, except in a scroll. Because of the resiliance of the scroll, it
may take a little longer.
Stretch
sixf...@sccoast.net
Any other ideas ? Low ambient operation would be affected as well.
Since there isn't any engineering tables for field screw ups, this
could
become a nightmare for future repairs.
We know for certain that the efficiency will drop according to the
percentage of 22 that was installed.
I still can't believe that 22 was put into this system, it just does
not
make sense!
Rich.
With Lennox, the metering device is a TXV. No matter the compressor
efficiency, the refrigerant flow will be wrong, unpredictable. 410a is
a mixture. How does the mixture act with some 22 mixed in? Is it
possible to know,especially if you don't know the percentage?
Stretch
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:35:54 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote:
>If memory serves, R500 and R502 are a mixture of R-22 and one other
>gas.
Nope. R500 is an azeotropic mixture of R12 and R152a
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=ixL1
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:00:04 -0400, Tekkie® <Tek...@comcast.net>
wrote:
You don't have to be so anal.
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=criB
Olaf
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:71jtf1lu1aea245l7...@4ax.com...
> Because I understand what your 'friend' did, and I know it
> will break your system. And ANYONE familiar with HVAC will tell you
> the same.
Awww... if he can be condescending, then he'll help a home owner over here.
Why not just tell them to fuck off, blow you, and take it to
alt.home.repair? That was no professional HVAC question!
<G>
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Luckily, I didn't actually help him :-)
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:d8geg1t50f8fbdtm2...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:28:10 -0400, "Olaf"
> <askmeforem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>><pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>news:71jtf1lu1aea245l7...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> Because I understand what your 'friend' did, and I know it
>>> will break your system. And ANYONE familiar with HVAC will tell you
>>> the same.
>>
>>
>>Awww... if he can be condescending, then he'll help a home owner over here.
>>Why not just tell them to fuck off, blow you, and take it to
>>alt.home.repair? That was no professional HVAC question!
>>
>><G>
>>
>
> Luckily, I didn't actually help him :-)
>
This is Turtle.
Luckily you didn't help someone. Paul you don't help anybody with out getting
paid back for it. If they don't pay for your help you flame them out of the
group. Help someone -- WOW that is a joke.
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
I can think of 1.5 million reasons not to trust you....
Ow...thats gotta hurt.
DiDo
dido
"~^Johnny^~" <nos...@gyrogearloose.com> wrote in message
news:ipocg1h6ceujfq0ks...@4ax.com...
TURTLE
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <st...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:DgpOe.102$Bv2...@eagle.america.net...
This is Turtle.
I know you for too well. You only have Paul and Uncle Billy Bob to call friends
and if a person says to you to call your other friends. You stick you hand in
your pocket pull out you money which is your other friends. Stick you hand in
your pocket and let me hear your friends jingle.
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
LOL..yea..whatever...
Going bow hunting for gator in your area...wanna go?
LOL
Other than I expect you to say no....might even invite your buddy Duck
along...that would be interesting as hell would it not?
Dont worry Terry..the other 10 we are going with, all real lifelong friends
and hunters...we will protect you from getting your self in trouble.
>
geoman*^
Refrigerants, a really cool guy that use to visit and help with such
wonderful knowledge and skills. I'm sure he would not mind my posting his
reply here. It seems that what I assumed was 50/50 correct and incorrect. I
was not surprised about the system running longer and having higher
discharge temperatures, which we all know can break down oil and also stress
the valves due to overheating. Here is the communication.
Rich,
I am starting to cruise the site more and more. I have been on vacation for
the last 8 days, however, so I have not seen the thread that you have
mentioned.
First, I'm concerned that someone who leak checked a system did not then
evacuate the system properly, in which case the cross contamination wouldn't
be an issue at all. To answer your specific questions, however, I would say
that the compression ratio would not increase for a blend of 22 and 410A.
All other measurable system properties would actually decrease, since R-22
has lower pressure and capacity than 410A. (Amps would go down, suction and
head pressure would go down, run time would increase due to lower
instantaneous capacity in the evap. You might see an increase in discharge
temp, depending on how much 22 got in there.)
In the future I would recommend that the tech buy a better HFC leak detector
and leave the 22 out.
-Jim
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
You are a Joke Bow Hunting for Gators but one thing to watch out for. If you are
hunting gators. If the group said a gator got you. they don't look for you any
at all. How well do you know these Bow hunters of Gators ? When you want to get
rid of somebody just invite them gator hunting ! The least you hunt with for
gators is a 44 Mag. rifle. Hope you come back !
TURTLE
RP
Now where have I heard that shit before :)
hvacrmedic
safe-male
wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:48:33 -0500, RP <no_mail...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Assuming a piston coil, the 410-A system with a 22 charge will operate
>>fine. The motor would be higher in HP than necessary, tonnage would drop
>>some.
>
> What pressures do you figure he 'topped it off' to, this 'R22
>on top of R410A' genius ? I wonder how much moisture he got in from
>his R-22 hoses, that undoubetedly were not clean, and not purged.....
I would bet him being a r22 man he changed it to r22 60-70 psi
ken
>
>http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/410.htm
>
>" A typical R-22 system operating normally with a head pressure of
>260 psig at a 120-degree condensing temperature and a low side
>pressure of 76 psig at a 45-degree evaporator saturation temperature
>will find the equivalent pressures in a R-410A system to be much
>higher.
>
> A normally operating R-410A system with the same condensing
>temperature of 120 degrees and a 45 degree evaporator saturation
>temperature will have a high side pressure of 418 psig and a low side
>pressure of 130 psig."
>
> Is he running R-22 at 400 + PSIG discharge, I wonder ? How
>much higher on a hot day ?
>
> Care to speculate what happens then ? My guess would be R-22
>breakdown, followed by acid contamination, followed by new system
>quote :-)