got another one for your review
Ed-D
I'm thinking about losing the photos and #663333 background on the left
side...let me know what you think...
--
"It is going to be the bargain of the century. It is going to look like we
bought the island of Manhattan for $7.5 million and some beads."
-eCompanies explaining the $7.5 million domain purchase of business.com,
November 1999
Chip C
>www.proefficient.biz/clients/bestapts
>
>I'm thinking about losing the photos and #663333 background on the left
>side...let me know what you think...
>
>--
I don't see how the left-side imagery relates to the page, especially
the bricks. I'm not a big believer in using images just for the sake
of design, but more appropriate photos would be fine.
What happens to the table borders will depress you in Opera 6.
Best regards,
Daniel 'Chip' Ciammaichella
http://www.chipcom.net/
Ed-D
"Chip C" <ch...@chipcom.net> wrote in message
news:3cc63860....@news-server.neo.rr.com...
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 04:42:42 GMT, "Ed-D" <Ed...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
> >www.proefficient.biz/clients/bestapts
> >
> >I'm thinking about losing the photos and #663333 background on the left
> >side...let me know what you think...
> >
> >--
>
> I don't see how the left-side imagery relates to the page, especially
> the bricks. I'm not a big believer in using images just for the sake
> of design, but more appropriate photos would be fine.
>
> What happens to the table borders will depress you in Opera 6.
>
is there any way around that? what % of people use opera?
Ed-D
thinking about changing it but the problem is I'm colorblind and am
especially bad with shades of brown...so...if somebody can suggest a color
for the sides (and please give me the #)...it would be much appreciated...
"Ed-D" <Ed...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:T3rx8.21499$uV.1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Chip C
>> I don't see how the left-side imagery relates to the page, especially
>> the bricks. I'm not a big believer in using images just for the sake
>> of design, but more appropriate photos would be fine.
>>
>> What happens to the table borders will depress you in Opera 6.
>>
>
>is there any way around that? what % of people use opera?
>
Opera runs 4-6 percent in my logs (higher than Netscape 6, but lower
than 4), but that isn't a valid reason to ignore it. Newer versions
of the major browsers are all leaning more towards compliance with
standards. Problems I see in Opera could well be seen by users of
Mozilla, Netscape 6 or the next version of IE
If you do your mark-up and CSS to standards, you minimize the chances
of different browsers rendering your page vastly different. Then if
you need to revert to some old stupid browser tricks to accomodate
older browsers, that is up to your own judgement...better to know the
rules before you know which you can bend.
You are declaring HTML 4.01 Strict in your DTD. Try changing to
Transitional and making the page validate. From there you can begin to
make the changes required to comply with the strict DTD...which will
require a greater use of CSS from the errors the validator is
throwing.
Validating your CSS is important too, but it won't cure all
cross-browser anomolies. I have had perfectly valid CSS break badly in
Opera or other browsers...I met the specs but didn't understand
properly how to apply them. With a little experimentation and
reference to sources on the web, you will soon learn what is safe with
the current popular browsers and how to work around their respective
bobbles.
Think of building your site as if you were building a house, and W3C
specs as the building code. Would you allow an architect to design or
a contractor to build you a home that does not meet code? The
foundation of a web site is the underlying markup, build a solid
foundation for your site just as you would any structure.
Damn I get long-winded at 1:30 am. ;-)
Ed-D
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:06:59 GMT, "Ed-D" <Ed...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
> >> I don't see how the left-side imagery relates to the page, especially
> >> the bricks. I'm not a big believer in using images just for the sake
> >> of design, but more appropriate photos would be fine.
> >>
> >> What happens to the table borders will depress you in Opera 6.
> >>
> >
> >is there any way around that? what % of people use opera?
> >
> Opera runs 4-6 percent in my logs (higher than Netscape 6, but lower
> than 4), but that isn't a valid reason to ignore it. Newer versions
> of the major browsers are all leaning more towards compliance with
> standards. Problems I see in Opera could well be seen by users of
> Mozilla, Netscape 6 or the next version of IE
>
Well the site looks pretty good in NS4 now, after I fixed some things...
> If you do your mark-up and CSS to standards, you minimize the chances
> of different browsers rendering your page vastly different. Then if
> you need to revert to some old stupid browser tricks to accomodate
> older browsers, that is up to your own judgement...better to know the
> rules before you know which you can bend.
>
> You are declaring HTML 4.01 Strict in your DTD. Try changing to
> Transitional and making the page validate. From there you can begin to
> make the changes required to comply with the strict DTD...which will
> require a greater use of CSS from the errors the validator is
> throwing.
>
I wasn't sure about that.
whats the link with the DTD again?
> Validating your CSS is important too, but it won't cure all
> cross-browser anomolies. I have had perfectly valid CSS break badly in
> Opera or other browsers...I met the specs but didn't understand
> properly how to apply them. With a little experimentation and
> reference to sources on the web, you will soon learn what is safe with
> the current popular browsers and how to work around their respective
> bobbles.
>
how do I validate my CSS?
> Think of building your site as if you were building a house, and W3C
> specs as the building code. Would you allow an architect to design or
> a contractor to build you a home that does not meet code? The
> foundation of a web site is the underlying markup, build a solid
> foundation for your site just as you would any structure.
>
Gotcha. Yeah this sounds like a good approach....
Chip C
>I took out the photos...now the backgrounds on the sidebars is white...I'm
>thinking about changing it but the problem is I'm colorblind and am
>especially bad with shades of brown...so...if somebody can suggest a color
>for the sides (and please give me the #)...it would be much appreciated...
>
taking out the photos somehow helped Opera with the table borders -
especially the lower one.
I can't really comment on colors...original design is not my strong
suit, but I see lots of potential for functionality that would take
this site beyond mere brochureware. Complete property listings and
job openings come to mind, along with content management to enable
your client to easily keep the site updated with fresh information.
Links out to other real estate related sites/listings in the NY area
would be a nice 'Miracle on 34th St' addition.
I mention this because you may be able to use your left or right
column space for 'teasers' linked to different pages of the site.
Ed-D
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:19:33 GMT, "Ed-D" <Ed...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
> >I took out the photos...now the backgrounds on the sidebars is
white...I'm
> >thinking about changing it but the problem is I'm colorblind and am
> >especially bad with shades of brown...so...if somebody can suggest a
color
> >for the sides (and please give me the #)...it would be much
appreciated...
> >
> taking out the photos somehow helped Opera with the table borders -
> especially the lower one.
>
> I can't really comment on colors...original design is not my strong
> suit, but I see lots of potential for functionality that would take
> this site beyond mere brochureware. Complete property listings and
> job openings come to mind, along with content management to enable
> your client to easily keep the site updated with fresh information.
They want to keep the "Best Deals" page updated on a daily or weekly basis.
I hear it is possible to build a user-interface through mysql...do you or
anybody know anything about this? I don't want to bother with content
management like vignette or interwoven, those licenses are expensive as
hell....are there any free open-source content management things?
links to other real-estate things is an excellent idea but outside of scope
(and more importantly, budget)...I'll pitch them that as a further round of
work once we get this thing up...
Chip C
>I wasn't sure about that.
>whats the link with the DTD again?
<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd">
>how do I validate my CSS?
>
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Chip C
>
>They want to keep the "Best Deals" page updated on a daily or weekly basis.
>I hear it is possible to build a user-interface through mysql...do you or
>anybody know anything about this? I don't want to bother with content
>management like vignette or interwoven, those licenses are expensive as
>hell....are there any free open-source content management things?
>
MYSQL/PHP Database Applications by Greenspan and Bulger actually steps
you through building a content management system.
Better than that is Ektron's eWebEditPro, (www.ektron.com) which is
essentially a WYSIWYG activeX control that can be integrated with
PHP/mySQL, as well as Cold Fusion, JSP and ASP with Access or SQL. It
costs like 400 bucks and makes it much easier on your client. You can
customize their editing interface somewhat too, adding custom style
sheets, limiting font and color choices and even uploading images.
With some basic knowledge of PHP/mySQL you could integrate it into the
site in a few hours, even faster with the standard ASP/SQL setup. I
have had very good luck with it for small, tiny budget projects.
Carol Ott
> I took out the photos...now the backgrounds on the sidebars is white...I'm
> thinking about changing it but the problem is I'm colorblind and am
> especially bad with shades of brown...so...if somebody can suggest a color
> for the sides (and please give me the #)...it would be much appreciated...
>
before. When you look at "brown" -- what do you see? Do you have trouble
with any other colours? My grandfather was red/green colourblind....it was
interesting being in the car with him. ;-)
Carol
personal: http://www.csott.com
professional: http://www.csottdesign.com
Carol Ott
> www.proefficient.biz/clients/bestapts
>
I seem to have missed the photos -- there aren't any.
Can you change the brush-script heading? It makes the site look very "MS
Word". Overall, the site's layout is okay....nothing special, though, to
make it stand out from other real estate sites. And the content is
weak.....nothing to keep the visitor moving through the site.
rf
"Carol Ott" <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:h3yx8.1176$8p3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> My grandfather was red/green colourblind....it was
> interesting being in the car with him. ;-)
Red is always at the top of the traffic light. International standard :-)
Cheers
Richard.
Carol Ott
news:Rsyx8.44758$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> Red is always at the top of the traffic light. International standard :-)
>
> Cheers
> Richard.
>
I think that's what saved him.....and us. ;-)
Ed-D
"Carol Ott" <cs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:h3yx8.1176$8p3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> news:Ffrx8.21976$t65....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> > I took out the photos...now the backgrounds on the sidebars is
white...I'm
> > thinking about changing it but the problem is I'm colorblind and am
> > especially bad with shades of brown...so...if somebody can suggest a
color
> > for the sides (and please give me the #)...it would be much
appreciated...
> >
> Hmmm...a colourblind graphic designer.
Web designer. Please. There is a difference (more info on that on my site:
www.proefficient.biz)
> Now that's one I haven't heard
> before. When you look at "brown" -- what do you see?
Depends on the shade of brown but usually something that could be brown,
green, red, purple, or something else.
> Do you have trouble
> with any other colours?
Yeah, reds, greens, orange...all depending on the shade of course.
> My grandfather was red/green colourblind....it was
> interesting being in the car with him. ;-)
>
I live in a city where I don't need to own a car thank god.
Duende
> >how do I validate my CSS?
> >
> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
>
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel 'Chip' Ciammaichella
> http://www.chipcom.net/
>
w3c validator isn't available at http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ yet.
D.
Chip C
wrote:
>
>> >how do I validate my CSS?
>> >
>> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
>
>w3c validator isn't available at http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ yet.
>
>D.
>
>
Only the downloadable validator is not available. The online tool is
perfectly usable.
Carol Ott
>
> Yeah, reds, greens, orange...all depending on the shade of course.
>
So do you have to get someone to coordinate your outfits for you? I'm not
being snide -- I really am interested in colour blindness, and I've never
gotten a chance to ask anyone....my grandfather denied his and would never
speak about it.
And on a bright sunny day, are the sun and sky the same colours to you as
they would be to a non-colour blind person? How about trees and grass?
Neredbojias
>And on a bright sunny day, are the sun and sky the same colours to you as
>they would be to a non-colour blind person? How about trees and grass?
How could anyone answer that question? Think about it...
Neredbojias
mbS
Ha. Yes, a topic often opened in undergraduate philosophy
classes. Leaving aside those thorny goodies, the only
empirical thing you can do is perform experiments as to
how individuals react to particular stimulations, and collect
information about what sentences they are willing to ascent to.
(This assumes that you are interested in empirical information.)
One common confusion is that there are a number of
kinds of color blindness in humans, not to mention color weakness
(Cateracts are like wearing dirty yellow sunglasses; when the
things are removed, patients commonly wonder at the colors they
can suddenly see, not realizing that blues and purples have been
filtered to lower levels for years).
There is so much variation in color vision among human primates
that the only safe way to set off things like navigation is with
strong value contrast, never with hue contrast.
Ed-D
> "Ed-D" <Ed...@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:HmDx8.6934$d96....@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
> >
> > Yeah, reds, greens, orange...all depending on the shade of course.
> >
>
> So do you have to get someone to coordinate your outfits for you?
Nope I just wear colors I can figure out. If I'm not sure what color
something is and I like it I'll ask the sales clerk or whomever and then
I'll know what I can wear it with. Its a lot easier than you think.
In college though, I f*cked up and washed my whites with my colors and my
whites turned pink...which happens to a lot of people. What doesn't happen
to a lot of people is that they aren't aware than any damage has been done.
People had to tell me I was wearing pink when I thought I was wearing white.
It was embarassing, but funny.
> I'm not
> being snide -- I really am interested in colour blindness, and I've never
> gotten a chance to ask anyone....my grandfather denied his and would never
> speak about it.
I can understand that. Its a pain in the ass when everybody asks you about
it over and over again and after awhile you get sick of explaining it.
Colorblind people can function perfectly well even in the arts (they won't
let us fly planes though...and I'm pretty sure the military doesn't want me
either)
>
> And on a bright sunny day, are the sun and sky the same colours to you as
> they would be to a non-colour blind person? How about trees and grass?
>
I don't think you know what colorblindness is. Colorblind people don't just
see everything as one color. We *can* appreciate colors. And we're
especially sensitive to light/dark contrasts you describe.
Ed-D
"mbS" <EvilSpa...@Nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:3CC7950...@Nowhere.org...
> There is so much variation in color vision among human primates
> that the only safe way to set off things like navigation is with
> strong value contrast, never with hue contrast.
Yup. Which is why most of my stuff is in black and white and shades of gray
(well that and I can't really figure out the other colors in the first
place).
But it also explains why any painting or drawing class worth its merit will
drill dark/white shading before the students go anywhere near other colors.
My intro to drawing class didn't even touch on colors.
Also, no art teacher or director ever told me I should give up because I
can't see certain colors (maybe they were just being nice though). The
military, on the other hand, wants no part of me.
>
> mbS
> http://www.mbstevens.com/
>
>
>
>
rf
> The
> military, on the other hand, wants no part of me.
Understandable. It would be a gross breach of etiquette to run a red light in an
armoured tank...
Cheers
Richard.
Neredbojias
>Ha. Yes, a topic often opened in undergraduate philosophy
>classes. Leaving aside those thorny goodies, the only
>empirical thing you can do is perform experiments as to
>how individuals react to particular stimulations, and collect
>information about what sentences they are willing to ascent to.
>(This assumes that you are interested in empirical information.)
Here's the way I see it. (Nyuk nyuk nyuk.)
Any of us can and all of us do associate colors with feelings, objects,
moods, spirituality, etc, etc, etc. I may view a certain green as warm,
healthy, and nature-ish while considering another red to be dire, alarming,
and bloody unpleasant. Shades, of course, play a big part and may change
the entire pereception of a color, but let's stick to the basics.
I assign to colors what I can only describe as "feelings" they give me. I
think these color-related feelings are very, very similar throughout the
Human Race. Certain light blues probably make you think of or feel
freshness or coolness, as they do me. But here's the thing...
Your blue may be my red (in color, not name). What makes ME feel alarm
would, if you saw it thru my eyes, thru my brain exactly the way I saw it,
make you feel crisp exhiliration. Or the color that I see as red may not
even appear in your spectrum. And the color that you see as red may be
totally beyond anything visual that I could even dream of.
There is no way to prove this, one way or the other. There is no way to
absolutely describe a color. Many argue against this, but I'm convinced.
Someone might say "Well, brown is dark and it's close to black or the
absence of light." So what? What if your black is my white? And your
brown my yellow?
While I'm no doctor, I suspect color-blindness is an especial difficulty in
distinguishing between similar shades of a color and/or similar intensities
of different colors, perhaps at periodic frequencies or luminosites much
like the quanta of light interference. It would be interesting to study, bu
t I still haven't finished my be-a-paleontologist-in-your-spare-time
correspondence course yet, and I started that in 1976. Ya just can't do it
all...
Neredbojias
Carol Ott
> I don't think you know what colorblindness is. Colorblind people don't
just
> see everything as one color. We *can* appreciate colors. And we're
> especially sensitive to light/dark contrasts you describe.
Very good. Thanks so much for answering my many questions -- you've helped
to clear up a few misconceptions I had.
Carol Ott
>
> But it also explains why any painting or drawing class worth its merit
will
> drill dark/white shading before the students go anywhere near other
colors.
As one art teacher said to our drawing class once, "If I can't trust you to
manage with two colours, I'm not letting you out into the world with a full
spectrum."
Ed-D
news:h1iccu486mg3brhad...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:49:09 GMT, a kitty called "Ed-D"
> <Ed...@despammed.com> miaowed:
>
> >
> >"Chip C" <ch...@chipcom.net> wrote in message
> >news:3cc64442....@news-server.neo.rr.com...
> >> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:19:33 GMT, "Ed-D" <Ed...@despammed.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I took out the photos...now the backgrounds on the sidebars is
> >white...I'm
> >> >thinking about changing it but the problem is I'm colorblind and am
> >> >especially bad with shades of brown...so...if somebody can suggest a
> >color
> >> >for the sides (and please give me the #)...it would be much
> >appreciated...
> >> >
> >> taking out the photos somehow helped Opera with the table borders -
> >> especially the lower one.
> >>
> >> I can't really comment on colors...original design is not my strong
> >> suit, but I see lots of potential for functionality that would take
> >> this site beyond mere brochureware. Complete property listings and
> >> job openings come to mind, along with content management to enable
> >> your client to easily keep the site updated with fresh information.
> >
> >They want to keep the "Best Deals" page updated on a daily or weekly
basis.
> >I hear it is possible to build a user-interface through mysql...do you or
> >anybody know anything about this? I don't want to bother with content
> >management like vignette or interwoven, those licenses are expensive as
> >hell....are there any free open-source content management things?
> >
>
>
> real easy to set up
>
> www.blogger.com
>
you need to know html to use it though...ng for my clients...
> I use bigblogtool.com, not free but dirt cheap and way powerful.
>
> http://pixelkitty.net
Rafal 'Raf256' Maj
news:T3rx8.21499$uV.1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net:
> is there any way around that? what % of people use opera?
well I do :)
Ed-D
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:48:15 GMT, a kitty called "Ed-D"
>
> you can set it up first using your leet html skillz ;p or and then
> they dont need to know any html
>
> they can just post using BlogBuddy, w.bloggar or the Blogger interface
> itself
the blogger interface, besides not working, seems to require HTML
knowledge...what is blogbuddy...is it free?
>
> the beauty of this is if you give them BlogBuddy, they dont even need
> to know the username or password :)
>
> http://pixelkitty.net
Ed-D
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:42:07 GMT, a kitty called "Ed-D"
> <Ed...@despammed.com> miaowed:
>
>
> >> they can just post using BlogBuddy, w.bloggar or the Blogger interface
> >> itself
> >
> >the blogger interface, besides not working, seems to require HTML
> >knowledge...what is blogbuddy...is it free?
> >
>
>
> Blogbuddy runs the blogger api so you dont have to use the website
> itself.
>
Yeah but is it free?
> again, if you set up blogger properly, no html will be required by
> your clients - at all.
>
> you will always have to give them some basic training - its just
> unavoidable
>
Yeah thats no problem. I can generously include that in my "package" :)
I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile for me to just learn to use
mysql...I have a limited knowledge of unix...
>
> >> the beauty of this is if you give them BlogBuddy, they dont even need
> >> to know the username or password :)
> >>
> >> http://pixelkitty.net
> >
>
Ed-D
news:Xns91FC22ED1F5B...@213.180.128.20...
I actually downloaded it. Its not bad. Much better than NS...then again
WAP will probably get you a better view of websites than NS