Any felines?
Chris Johnson
*looks about curiously, noting a number of familiar names*
*waves to Windigo- how'd pouncing Grubor go? ;) *
Hi *curls up comfortably on easy chair*
I was wondering something...
I've peeked in here before, as I have something in common with you
folks- if you'll look at my sig you'll note it includes a nick-
'Jinx_tigr'. Almost nobody picks up on this- the only exception in mundane
newsgroups is an annoying fellow named John Hoog. I doubt he suspects that
the 'tigr' is not an idle addition *grin* I have a lot of feline about me.
He might have taken a clue from my attitude towards his silly posts- it is
pleasing to have a respectable opportunity to lash out verbally at prey
*hehehehe* albeit it's not a common opportunity...
Erp, back to the subject. Not that it's not entertaining to run over
things like how I managed to break a hickory drumstick on a practice-pad
kit (tiger+drumkit= *whap!*) or playing LARP in fursuit and going after an
attacker with boffer sword (*yowr! hiss!*)...
Er, must be the moon or something *grin* it _is_ full moon tonight, and
though as a feline-type I'm not that keyed into it it does seem an
appropriate time to post something to a.h.ww.
I was just wondering whether there are other felines about, and if so,
what they're like. My personal experience is there's a lot of strength in
being feline at heart, but I can't help noticing that being lupine seems
to be.. I'm not sure what to say... dramatic? More of a strain? I can't
say as I really understand this- if what I am counts as were-ness it's a
lot easier to manage. It colors many aspects of my life, but for some
reason it seems to mesh seamlessly with the more 'outward' side- hard to
explain.
Anyway, I was really wondering this... I understand that it's mostly
lupines, but have you not seen other felines? What're they like? Other
sorts? Just curious. I wouldn't dream for a moment you'd chased them all
off or something ;)
Jinx_tigr
(aka Chris Johnson)
Paul Gettle
In article <jinx6568-020...@pm0a27.bratt.sover.net>,
jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson) wrote:
> I was wondering something...
I was wondering something too. You wouldn't be Chris Johnson from
Elverson, PA, would you?
--
-- Half-Shadow (pge...@groupz.net)
## ##
#### ####
##### ##### Exploring aspects of my Wolf side
#####____##### with the help of my packmates on
/################ AHWW.
/ ##################
/ ################## "Wolf and man, two halves of a
| / \####/ \###### greater whole, each clinging to
| \__/####\__/###### the other like a shadow. Light
| ____ | ############# and Dark, Feral and Rational,
|_/ | | __##### ### Lethal and Compasionate, as a
\ |__| ### Spiritshifter there is always
| ______ # another side, another half to me,
\ VvvvvV / one that is hidden in shadow."
| \^^/ | -- Half-Shadow 10/95
\______/
Rick Niess
Hi Jinx!
On Sun, 02 Jun 1996 23:50:35 -0400, jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson)
wrote:
> I was just wondering whether there are other felines about, and if so,
>what they're like. My personal experience is there's a lot of strength in
>being feline at heart, but I can't help noticing that being lupine seems
>to be.. I'm not sure what to say... dramatic? More of a strain? I can't
>say as I really understand this- if what I am counts as were-ness it's a
>lot easier to manage. It colors many aspects of my life, but for some
>reason it seems to mesh seamlessly with the more 'outward' side- hard to
>explain.
Same thing IMHO. Some of us have problems letting our 'were
side(s)' loose in public. Felines, while generally fiesty when
prompted, tend to be more sociable. In such case, letting it infect
(?) all aspects of your everyday life is cool. If you see a lot of
similar traits between you and a feline of some kind (large or small),
more power to ya'.
Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
I personally have two Feline, a Lupine, and an Ursine side to my
wereside. Letting *these* out in public can (and generally *is*)
hazardous to my relationships with other people. But while I fight to
keep them bottled up sometimes, I generally *love* to let them run
free. Look at my WereCard:
(http://ocean.st.usm.edu/~rniess/were/werecard.html)
and see what I mean. I have a really cute and cuddly side, but don't
get me angry; I bite, claw, and throw things. (for real). Hope this
helps you some... Howls, Growls 'n Purrs...
~ Rick ~
--
Chris Johnson
In article <4p0o43$a...@axe.netdoor.com>, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu wrote:
> Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
> more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
> respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
> this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
> flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
> outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
Interesting- in contrast I would say felines have a very deep sense of
the pragmatic. (BTW if you're interested in reading about tigers find
'Tiger! Tiger!' by Arjan Singh- very very pro-tiger account, and hence a
lot more observant and insightful especially from my point of view)
I would guess that the feline sense of respect is entirely situational-
there is a detachment that is always there. Sometimes I think that my
looking at _myself_ with tolerant skepticism is a very feline trait...
I've backed down a lot, otherwise I would be dead now. (history of drugs
and insanity, this is nothing new) I've taken to being ready to make
amends quickly should I mis-step... the interesting thing is, I've learned
to do it in a feline manner. If you think of a dog and a cat on a chair,
and you tell them to get down, the dog might be ashamed but the cat gives
you a mildly dirty look and gets down as if it's doing you a favor ;) to
translate, being wrong is independent of honor, as any cat knows.
(Disclaimer- if a _wolf_ was sitting in my chair I'd sit on the floor,
thank you, and pretend that's where I wanted to sit all along ;) )
Arguments are fun but as a feline I have no desire whatsoever to get
stomped by a superior adversary. If you read up on tigers you'll note that
(a) they are called 'super-predators' and (b) they avoid unneccesary
fights. That's right, real tigers can be observed furiously skulking off
into the underbrush should they be outmatched, to take the better part of
valor and live to hunt another day. I mention it because I certainly have
caught glimpses of the flaming, and in my feline judgement it's very
foolish and wasteful of your resources. The wolf has social instincts so
powerful that the ethologist Konrad Lorenz (read his 'On Aggression' and
learn why he thinks humans would be better off if they were more like
wolves) let his infant child play with his half-wolf hybrid dog
unsupervised, knowing that the dog would not harm the kid (but any
burglars would be in big trouble)
I find it very useful and important to learn about the _real_ tigers,
the _real_ wolves, rather than the stereotypes that develop. You talk of
the AHWW pack, yet in a real pack the cohesion is more important than the
dominance of any one wolf- wolves don't turn on the whole pack out of
frustrated honor. Perhaps human qualities are hard to shake- cooperation
is not specifically a human quality. Why, even tigers adjust their hunting
schedules to avoid conflicting with other tigers out there- and tigers are
_not_ essentially social animals. Wolves are. Clearly the AHWW pack _is_ a
real thing, but I suspect that some of the things that go on (flamewars,
destructive hostility) are a far cry from what real wolfpacks show and are
more accurately human qualities- as humans, not having such powerful
natural weapons as tigers and wolves, never were forced to develop as
powerful social instincts. In this respect humans are a hell of a lot less
civilized...
Hm, a lot of thoughts kicked off by the mention of honor. I shall be
interested to see what the wolves think of all this. It is, at least, an
outside viewpoint- if it becomes a flamewar somehow, I've two choices.
This tiger is not intimidated by any one wolf... but if the entire
newsgroup goes to war on the tiger, the tiger is going to vanish into the
underbrush. Any real tiger in that situation would do likewise. ;)
Jinx_tigr
(aka Chris Johnson)
Michael J. Rider
In article <jinx6568-040...@pm0a8.bratt.sover.net>,
jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson) wrote:
> In article <4p0o43$a...@axe.netdoor.com>, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu wrote:
> > Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
> > more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
> > respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
> > this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
> > flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
> > outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
>
> Interesting- in contrast I would say felines have a very deep sense of
> the pragmatic. (BTW if you're interested in reading about tigers find
> 'Tiger! Tiger!' by Arjan Singh- very very pro-tiger account, and hence a
> lot more observant and insightful especially from my point of view)
> I would guess that the feline sense of respect is entirely situational-
> there is a detachment that is always there. Sometimes I think that my
> looking at _myself_ with tolerant skepticism is a very feline trait...
> I've backed down a lot, otherwise I would be dead now. (history of drugs
> and insanity, this is nothing new) I've taken to being ready to make
> amends quickly should I mis-step... the interesting thing is, I've learned
> to do it in a feline manner. If you think of a dog and a cat on a chair,
> and you tell them to get down, the dog might be ashamed but the cat gives
> you a mildly dirty look and gets down as if it's doing you a favor ;) to
> translate, being wrong is independent of honor, as any cat knows.
> (Disclaimer- if a _wolf_ was sitting in my chair I'd sit on the floor,
> thank you, and pretend that's where I wanted to sit all along ;) )
There is no dishonor in coming out of a fight alive or at least
uninjured. I couldn't have described the situation better myself.
> I find it very useful and important to learn about the _real_ tigers,
> the _real_ wolves, rather than the stereotypes that develop. You talk of
> the AHWW pack, yet in a real pack the cohesion is more important than the
> dominance of any one wolf- wolves don't turn on the whole pack out of
> frustrated honor. Perhaps human qualities are hard to shake- cooperation
> is not specifically a human quality. Why, even tigers adjust their hunting
> schedules to avoid conflicting with other tigers out there- and tigers are
> _not_ essentially social animals. Wolves are. Clearly the AHWW pack _is_ a
> real thing, but I suspect that some of the things that go on (flamewars,
> destructive hostility) are a far cry from what real wolfpacks show and are
> more accurately human qualities- as humans, not having such powerful
> natural weapons as tigers and wolves, never were forced to develop as
> powerful social instincts. In this respect humans are a hell of a lot less
> civilized...
Learning about real animals has taught me much more about myself and my
feline 'side' than anything else. AHWW is also IMHO far from a real
pack. There is a lot of backbiting going on here which would never be
tolerated in a real pack. Large predators can hurt each other easily with
their claws, teeth, etc. and need these ways (backing out without losing
face) to prevent senseless agression. Perhaps some around here could tap
into that.
--
____________________________ |\ /|
/ Michael J. Rider / :o o:
/ jag...@warwick.net /_______oOOo_==( ^ )==_oOOo_________
/ aka: Ixbalam / ' /
/ Jason_Jaguar on FurryMUCK / Did someone say salmon? /
---------------------------- /
/ Brain> Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? /
/ Pinky> Uh, I think so, Brain, but burlap chafes me so. /
-----------------------------------------------------------
Chris Johnson
In article <pgettle-0306...@207.30.48.12>, pge...@groupz.net
(Paul Gettle) wrote:
> > I was wondering something...
>
> I was wondering something too. You wouldn't be Chris Johnson from
> Elverson, PA, would you?
Nope, I'm from Brattleboro Vermont :)
Jinx_tigr
(aka Chris Johnson)
Mike Lawrence
jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson) wrote:
> *looks about curiously, noting a number of familiar names*
> *waves to Windigo- how'd pouncing Grubor go? ;) *
>
> Hi *curls up comfortably on easy chair*
> I've peeked in here before, as I have something in common with you
>folks- if you'll look at my sig you'll note it includes a nick-
>'Jinx_tigr'. Almost nobody picks up on this- the only exception in mundane
>newsgroups is an annoying fellow named John Hoog. I doubt he suspects that
>the 'tigr' is not an idle addition *grin* I have a lot of feline about me.
>He might have taken a clue from my attitude towards his silly posts- it is
>pleasing to have a respectable opportunity to lash out verbally at prey
>*hehehehe* albeit it's not a common opportunity...
> Erp, back to the subject. Not that it's not entertaining to run over
>things like how I managed to break a hickory drumstick on a practice-pad
>kit (tiger+drumkit= *whap!*) or playing LARP in fursuit and going after an
>attacker with boffer sword (*yowr! hiss!*)...
> Er, must be the moon or something *grin* it _is_ full moon tonight, and
>though as a feline-type I'm not that keyed into it it does seem an
>appropriate time to post something to a.h.ww.
>what they're like. My personal experience is there's a lot of strength in
>being feline at heart, but I can't help noticing that being lupine seems
>to be.. I'm not sure what to say... dramatic? More of a strain? I can't
>say as I really understand this- if what I am counts as were-ness it's a
>lot easier to manage. It colors many aspects of my life, but for some
>reason it seems to mesh seamlessly with the more 'outward' side- hard to
>explain.
>lupines, but have you not seen other felines? What're they like? Other
>sorts? Just curious. I wouldn't dream for a moment you'd chased them all
>
> Jinx_tigr
> (aka Chris Johnson)
That poses an interesting question. Are there any felines. I consider
myself to be a lycanthrope, although I have an obsession with
lions-courage. anyways, are ther any werelions out there too or am i just
strange?
Mike Lawrence
Mike Lawrence
Rowsby T-Wolf
Mike Lawrence wrote:
(Stuff gnawed for brevity)
> That poses an interesting question. Are there any felines.
Sure! They may be hiding out there, but there are a number of them that usually post.
:)
> I consider
> myself to be a lycanthrope, although I have an obsession with
> lions-courage. anyways, are ther any werelions out there too or am i just
> strange?
Lions... lions... OH! Yeah, there is a SABRELION who I've yet to see post here in the
NG (though he may read the group, I don't know), who has been spotted prowling on ye
old IRC. :)
TTFN:
Rowsby
--
/\ _
/ \\ /| ___________________________________ . .
|__|\_/_| | ~ ROWSBY T-WOLF ~ | .(|_|).
/ ((._.)\____ | AHWW Packmember/3D Animation & | (|/ \|)
/ / __ . .\/\ __| M U L T I M E D I A Student @ | (___)
/ ` \_._/\/ _/ The Art Institute of Pittsburgh |
\(\ \___V_/V \__ BFA in 2D Media. Dec 1992, BGSU | A Wolf
\_ \( /) |___________________________________| Within
\ / csri...@city-net.com
Christopher Brock
In article <jinx6568-020...@pm0a27.bratt.sover.net>,
jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson) wrote:
> Erp, back to the subject. Not that it's not entertaining to run over
> things like how I managed to break a hickory drumstick on a practice-pad
> kit (tiger+drumkit= *whap!*) or playing LARP in fursuit and going after an
> attacker with boffer sword (*yowr! hiss!*)...
@whee!
> Er, must be the moon or something *grin* it _is_ full moon tonight, and
> though as a feline-type I'm not that keyed into it it does seem an
> appropriate time to post something to a.h.ww.
Witiko aren't exactly linked to the moon, either, but I've always felt her
pull on my blood... I know where you're comin' from, cousin.
> I was just wondering whether there are other felines about, and if so,
More'n you can shake a stick at... although they'll prolly bat the end of
said stick playfully if you try. <grin>
> Anyway, I was really wondering this... I understand that it's mostly
> lupines, but have you not seen other felines? What're they like? Other
> sorts? Just curious. I wouldn't dream for a moment you'd chased them all
> off or something ;)
I think the lupines are just more vocal about their presence... prolly
tied to howling at the moon or sumthin'. <laugh> But most of us windigowak
(pl. witikowak? Feral, your call...) are quite feline. In fact, I had a
friend remark out of the blue that I've always reminded him of a cat, in
the way I look, talk, walk, act. etc. Especially playing with my `food'
before I eat it. <toothsome grin>
- Spyder, witiko-at-large
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Friends help you move; REAL friends help you move bodies."
... "We have had the veils lifted from our eyes, and that is not bad.
We -know- for certain that things are not as they seem. We -know-
that this world is full of dangerous and mysterious powers. That
gives us an advantage..." Whitley Strieber - 'The Wild'
/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
|"I smell the pain upon the breath | This bad boy's comin' to you |
| of the lost & the lonely... | LIVE and livid from... |
|"I hear the thoughts that whisper | email: spy...@xmission.com |
| in the hearts of all men." | Realtime: Spyder @ FurryMUCK |
| 'Helpline Operator' - The The | & all points due sou'west... |
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= URL: http://www.xmission.com/~spyder/ =-=-=-=-=-=-/
Christopher Brock
In article <jinx6568-040...@pm0a8.bratt.sover.net>,
jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson) wrote:
>In article <4p0o43$a...@axe.netdoor.com>, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu wrote:
>> Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
>> more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
>> respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
>> this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
>> flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
>> outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
>
> Interesting- in contrast I would say felines have a very deep sense of
>the pragmatic. (BTW if you're interested in reading about tigers find
>'Tiger! Tiger!' by Arjan Singh- very very pro-tiger account, and hence a
>lot more observant and insightful especially from my point of view)
Oooh! Also along this line, I HIGHLY recommend `The Tribe of Tiger'. It's
by the same woman who did `The Secret Life of Dogs' and is just an
_incredible_ look at feline psycology, of both major families (big cats
versus small cats, and all the similarities, too.)
Paul Gettle
In article <jinx6568-050...@pm0a12.bratt.sover.net>,
jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson) wrote:
> In article <pgettle-0306...@207.30.48.12>, pge...@groupz.net
> (Paul Gettle) wrote:
> > > I was wondering something...
> >
> > I was wondering something too. You wouldn't be Chris Johnson from
> > Elverson, PA, would you?
>
> Nope, I'm from Brattleboro Vermont :)
Well there goes my little pet theory that the Chris Johnson that was my
childhood friend was actually a shifter too, and I had gotten back in
touch with him over the internet. Oh well.... peril of a common name, I
suppose.
CAYCEE AURORA PRICE
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Jeff Twotails Sauls wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jun 1996 07:23:32 GMT, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu (Rick Niess)
> wrote:
> > Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
> >more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
> >respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
> >this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
> >flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
> >outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
>
> *sigh* Another misguided soul.
< <the cougar across the fire from the tiger looks up from his grooming and
nods saying> "But of course he is. He's *not* a cat poor thing. What more
can you expect? Not his fault of course, but there you have it, the innate
problem with non felines. <G>"
> The problem with what you said is that felines are always
> right.
< <the Cougar nods again, pausing to lick his paw> "*EXACTLY SO!* Even if we
give the appearance of being mistaken, it is done *deliberately*. This keeps
those who have the misfortune NOT to be cats on their toes." <washes his ear
with the now damp paw> "But no matter WHAT it looks like..." <scratches
behind the ear> "...cats are ALWAYS right." <and having said that returns to
his grooming with that maddening feline grin>
< Ge'heil'es
< "How'm I lookin'?" <pause to check> "I'm lookin' GOOD!"- Cat from Red Dwarf
> -Lan n' Grae
> *grin*
>
>
> |\ _,,,---,,_
> /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Jeff "Twotails" Sauls
> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' Http://www.uc.edu/~saulsj
> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ______________________________
>
>
Rick Niess
On Thu, 06 Jun 1996 15:03:20 GMT, sau...@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Jeff
"Twotails" Sauls) wrote:
>On Tue, 04 Jun 1996 07:23:32 GMT, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu (Rick Niess)
>wrote:
>> Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
>>more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
>>respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
>>this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
>>flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
>>outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
> *sigh* Another misguided soul.
Tell me about it. I wrote that at 4am. I intended it to be
logical and sensible; what I got was almost bigotous, senseless
gibberish. Serves me right I suppose. I need to abide a lot more by
my .Sig's saying...
> The problem with what you said is that felines are always
>right.
;-) Howls, Growls 'n Purrs...
~ Rick ~
--
.oooO "Man with closed Oooo. Rick C. Niess
( ) mouth gathers ( ) University of Southern Miss.
\ ( no foot!" ) / rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu
--\_)------------------(_/-------------------------------
Phelan
On 5 Jun 1996, Mike Lawrence wrote:
> That poses an interesting question. Are there any felines. I consider
> myself to be a lycanthrope, although I have an obsession with
> lions-courage. anyways, are ther any werelions out there too or am i just
> strange?
Greetings! Yes, I'm a werelion too! And a werewolf. And a werefox. And a
wereraccon. And a werejaguar. And a weretiger. And a werehawk... Then
again, I think I'm a were-just-about-everything!. And you were wondering
if you were strange! ;)
Actually, I'm curious how other polyweres (or whatever you'd prefer
to be called us) deal with their multiple animal aspects. I'm also
curious if anyone has any idea why we polyweres feel that there are
several animals which are an integral part of our beings, as opposed to
most weres who have only one animal aspect.
Myself, I've had a difficult time dealing with all my aspects. Sometimes
I feel pulled in so many different directions at once. But then, that's
the way my life has been anyway. I've always had a difficult time
focusing on any one thing at a time. As it is, I tend to run myself
ragged with all the projects I have. Although I can, I really don't like
reading only one book at a time. Whenever I think, I feel a need to pace,
to move. In short, I often feel a need to do several things at once. Does
this sound familiar to any of you?
One of the things that has helped me alot is walking meditation, what
some of you might call a conscious mental shift. Alone, walking woodland
paths at a slow pace, I close my eyes and allow myself to experience each
of my senses individually: touch, smell, hearing, sight. In this way,
I fully experience each sense, usually always at a greater height that
I do during my normal state of consciousness. Then I combine them all
together, to experience them all at once. This is truly exhilerating! I
feel so attuned to nature while doing this exercise, and oftentimes for
hours afterwards. This exerices allows combines the heightened senses of
all my animal aspects, and so I find that I am able to concentrate, focus
and be fully present, unlike my normal consciousness in which I am either
"out there somewhere" or in deep philosophical thought. As I learn to
bring my senses back to use in everyday life, I find myself more focused
and more able to deal with all the conflict inside me. My aspects are
finally beginning to harmonize.
Other ways I deal with my multiple aspects is to shamanically journey
deep withing myself to speak with my animal aspects face to face. More
and more, I allow myself to express myself through animal sounds (usually
under my breath when in public, that is).
So, anyone have any ideas on "polywerism" or would like to express how
they deal with their animal aspects?
With warmest affection (purrrrrrr)
AutumnLeaf
Sig file and web page _still_ forthcoming!
Rick Niess
Hi Jinx,
Sorry about being so late in replying to this. I still can't
beleive I posted that badly-thought-out as it was. And I thought it
made so much sense then... But then agian, being up at 4am with no
sleep in the preceeding 23 hours, things aren't always as clear as
they should be. Anyway, I'm kinda embarrassed...
On Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:13:22 -0400, jinx...@sover.net (Chris Johnson)
wrote:
>In article <4p0o43$a...@axe.netdoor.com>, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu wrote:
>> Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
>> more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
>> respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
>> this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
>> flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
>> outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
> Interesting- in contrast I would say felines have a very deep sense of
>the pragmatic. (BTW if you're interested in reading about tigers find
>'Tiger! Tiger!' by Arjan Singh- very very pro-tiger account, and hence a
>lot more observant and insightful especially from my point of view)
Thanx! I'll Look into it...
> I would guess that the feline sense of respect is entirely situational-
>there is a detachment that is always there. Sometimes I think that my
>looking at _myself_ with tolerant skepticism is a very feline trait...
>I've backed down a lot, otherwise I would be dead now. (history of drugs
>and insanity, this is nothing new) I've taken to being ready to make
>amends quickly should I mis-step... the interesting thing is, I've learned
>to do it in a feline manner. If you think of a dog and a cat on a chair,
>and you tell them to get down, the dog might be ashamed but the cat gives
>you a mildly dirty look and gets down as if it's doing you a favor ;) to
>translate, being wrong is independent of honor, as any cat knows.
>(Disclaimer- if a _wolf_ was sitting in my chair I'd sit on the floor,
>thank you, and pretend that's where I wanted to sit all along ;) )
<g> I see what you mean. In other words, the 'feline manner'
you speak of is to back down when outmached, but be as grumpy about it
as the situation allows possible. <g> <no offense intended to anyone>
But none the less, back down.
> Arguments are fun but as a feline I have no desire whatsoever to get
>stomped by a superior adversary. If you read up on tigers you'll note that
>(a) they are called 'super-predators' and (b) they avoid unneccesary
>fights. That's right, real tigers can be observed furiously skulking off
>into the underbrush should they be outmatched, to take the better part of
>valor and live to hunt another day.
That's kinda how I *meant* to put it...
>I mention it because I certainly have
>caught glimpses of the flaming, and in my feline judgement it's very
>foolish and wasteful of your resources. The wolf has social instincts so
>powerful that the ethologist Konrad Lorenz (read his 'On Aggression' and
>learn why he thinks humans would be better off if they were more like
>wolves) let his infant child play with his half-wolf hybrid dog
>unsupervised, knowing that the dog would not harm the kid (but any
>burglars would be in big trouble)
<g> Yes. They are usually sociable to 'kin'. But perhaps that
is partly because they are familiar with kin and not others. (Thanx
for the book suggestion, btw.)
> I find it very useful and important to learn about the _real_ tigers,
>the _real_ wolves, rather than the stereotypes that develop. You talk of
>the AHWW pack, yet in a real pack the cohesion is more important than the
>dominance of any one wolf- wolves don't turn on the whole pack out of
>frustrated honor. Perhaps human qualities are hard to shake-
Indeed, they are. You are correct in saying that the CyberPack
is not a true Wolf-type pack. IM*V*HO (please, please, please, don't
flame me for this, please, though conversation is weclome), we are all
'humans', but with some VERY strong animal tendancies. As such, our
human attributes penetrate all that we are no matter how hard we try
to deny their existence. (this is not meant to be offensive, even to
those who may really believe that they are an animal in a human's
body. this is only my opinion, and most likely and uninformed one at
that.) I, personally, am a human who has a very strong attachment
with my animals and their way of going about things. I try to be as
like my animals in all ways possible, and as such I claim to be a '
'Were'. Something tells me, I need to update my werecard.
>-cooperation
>is not specifically a human quality. Why, even tigers adjust their hunting
>schedules to avoid conflicting with other tigers out there- and tigers are
>_not_ essentially social animals. Wolves are. Clearly the AHWW pack _is_ a
>real thing, but I suspect that some of the things that go on (flamewars,
>destructive hostility) are a far cry from what real wolfpacks show and are
>more accurately human qualities- as humans, not having such powerful
>natural weapons as tigers and wolves, never were forced to develop as
>powerful social instincts. In this respect humans are a hell of a lot less
>civilized...
Agreed. See my response to Michael J. Rider's response to your
post... <g>
> Hm, a lot of thoughts kicked off by the mention of honor. I shall be
>interested to see what the wolves think of all this. It is, at least, an
>outside viewpoint- if it becomes a flamewar somehow, I've two choices.
>This tiger is not intimidated by any one wolf... but if the entire
>newsgroup goes to war on the tiger, the tiger is going to vanish into the
>underbrush. Any real tiger in that situation would do likewise. ;)
<evil grin> What underbrush? I thought this clearing was in a
forrest ;-> Hmm, I have to wonder what a wolf would do in a similar
situation with tigers.
Jinx, I have to sincerely thank you for responding to this in
such a sensible and informed manner. What started out as a sows ear
is now at least a cloth bag of a converstaion. I look forward to more
of the same. Better than all the flames we've been seeing. Howls,
Growls 'n Purrs...
~ Rick ~
.oooO "Man with closed Oooo. Rick C. Niess
Rick Niess
On Tue, 04 Jun 1996 19:53:57 -0400, jag...@warwick.net (Michael J.
Rider) wrote:
>> you a mildly dirty look and gets down as if it's doing you a favor ;) to
>> translate, being wrong is independent of honor, as any cat knows.
>> (Disclaimer- if a _wolf_ was sitting in my chair I'd sit on the floor,
>> thank you, and pretend that's where I wanted to sit all along ;) )
>uninjured. I couldn't have described the situation better myself.
Ditto.
>> I find it very useful and important to learn about the _real_ tigers,
>> the _real_ wolves, rather than the stereotypes that develop. You talk of
>> the AHWW pack, yet in a real pack the cohesion is more important than the
>Learning about real animals has taught me much more about myself and my
>feline 'side' than anything else. AHWW is also IMHO far from a real
>pack. There is a lot of backbiting going on here which would never be
>tolerated in a real pack. Large predators can hurt each other easily with
>their claws, teeth, etc. and need these ways (backing out without losing
>face) to prevent senseless agression. Perhaps some around here could tap
>into that.
I was waiting for this topic to come up. <g> A couple of Issues
to present here for possible discussion, neither of which have a whole
lot to do with animals and may be freely ignored if you wish:
(1) Perhaps all the 'backbiting' is a direct result of not having any
way to really harm any other member. The absolute worst that could
happen (at least, unless your address & phone number got posted, hee
hee) is that you or your ISP could be banned from the group. This, I
beleive, parallels a major justification for gun rights activists
wanting everyone to have the right to bear arms when and where they
wish.
(2) On the Converse, because humans have not grown up with the ability
to seriously harm other humans at will (or it was really discouraged,
anyway)(ie, claws, teeth, etc), would humans be ready to handle that
kind of responsibility? Would posing greater threats to each other
make us more 'civilized' or just paranoid? Perhaps this is the reason
we have bullies and then the bullied.
Meat for thought. I'd like to hear both human and Were
perspectives on this. Any comments welcome, even flames on this one.
Rick Niess
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 19:12:15 -0400, CAYCEE AURORA PRICE
<ca_...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Jeff Twotails Sauls wrote:
>> > Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
>> >more strain, it's more colorful from my point of view. Wolves have
>> >respect, a need for a pack, and a *very* deep sense of honor. Due to
>> >this, they simply *cannot* easily back down from a challenge. (the
>> >flaming around here, hint hint) Felines, OTOH, know when they're
>> >outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
>< <the cougar across the fire from the tiger looks up from his grooming and
>nods saying> "But of course he is. He's *not* a cat poor thing. What more
>can you expect? Not his fault of course, but there you have it, the innate
>problem with non felines. <G>"
>give the appearance of being mistaken, it is done *deliberately*. This keeps
>those who have the misfortune NOT to be cats on their toes." <washes his ear
>with the now damp paw> "But no matter WHAT it looks like..." <scratches
>behind the ear> "...cats are ALWAYS right." <and having said that returns to
>his grooming with that maddening feline grin>
Well, exCUUUuUUse me! <g> And I thought you liked me. <griggle>
Still, Tiger and Lion are two parts of me that I'm rather fond of
(along with White Wolf and Bear). Perhaps they could just use a
little...revision? <g> Howls, Growls 'n Purrs...
~ Rick ~
--
Keith Pepin/DECwolf
In article <4pdjcl$e...@axe.netdoor.com>, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu wrote:
-> Well, exCUUUuUUse me! <g> And I thought you liked me. <griggle>
-> Still, Tiger and Lion are two parts of me that I'm rather fond of
-> (along with White Wolf and Bear). Perhaps they could just use a
-> little...revision? <g> Howls, Growls 'n Purrs...
Well, after spending about 2 minutes trying to decipher that damn mess of
quoting, I have one thing to stir into any potential comparison of cats
and canines. Canines have MUCH nicer penises.
And canines appreciate VAXes more. Because they have MUCH bigger buses.
Erm, uh, oops 8^)... [DECwolf, sitting here using a Mac, with 12 DEC
config books of various types stacked besides him, including a pdp-11
systems and options catalog from '84]. Those things are still useful-
after looking through it, I'm going to have a TU58 added to my new VAX.
[The TU58 was an oddball tape drive designed for low-end MicroPDP-11 use.
It stores 250K on a cartridge, and connects to the computer through an
RS232 port. It became standard on the VAX-11/750 as a console load medium,
and VMS treats it as a file oriented device. UGH!!!]. Or maybe something
REALLY odd, like a desktop RC25. An original RD50 would be neat [5MB hard
drive]...
----****####****----
Keith Pepin/DECwolf
Obsessed with DEC/lover of lupines: Have you hugged your ALPHA today?
----****####****----
8^L - Werewolf with glasses and snout, smoking cigarette: THAT'S ME!!
CAYCEE AURORA PRICE
On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Rick Niess wrote:
> CAYCEE AURORA PRICE, Jeff Twotails Sauls, (Rick Niess)
> >> wrote: ..((( ) slight deletion there...
> >> > Being Lupine, from what I've seen and experienced, is not only
> >> >more strain,..((( )slashing some of it...Felines, OTOH, know when
> >> >they're outmatched and generally try to avoid and argument if possible.
> >> *sigh* Another misguided soul.
> >< <the cougar across the fire from the tiger looks up from his grooming and
> >nods saying> "But of course he is. He's *not* a cat poor thing. What more
> >can you expect? Not his fault of course, but there you have it, the innate
> >problem with non felines. <G>"
> >> The problem with what you said is that felines are always right.
> >< <the Cougar nods again, pausing to lick his paw> "*EXACTLY SO!* Even if we
> >give the appearance of being mistaken, it is done *deliberately*. This keeps
> >those who have the misfortune NOT to be cats on their toes." <washes his ear
> >with the now damp paw> "But no matter WHAT it looks like..." <scratches
> >behind the ear> "...cats are ALWAYS right." <and having said that returns to
> >his grooming with that maddening feline grin>
> Well, exCUUUuUUse me! <g> And I thought you liked me. <griggle>
> Still, Tiger and Lion are two parts of me that I'm rather fond of
> (along with White Wolf and Bear). Perhaps they could just use a
> little...revision? <g> Howls, Growls 'n Purrs...
< <the cougar looks up at this outburst from the youngling and says to him>
"Oh but I *DO* like you Rick.<G&H> In fact it is those sublimated feline
characteristics that make me think of you fondly as an idiotic son who just
needs to get his priorities straight :> <ECG>. As soon as you realise that
while on occasion cats are outmatched physically, they are ALWAYS in the
superior position intellectually and morally. <sighs> Now if only the *rest*
of the animal kingdom would acknowledge this fact of innate feline superiority
we could get on with things with the felines in charge and the world would be
a much better place for it." <this said he removes his tongue from his cheek
and looks around> "Anybody got any catnip?"
< Ge'heil'es
<It's not conceit if it's TRUE!
Jewel
Phelan wrote:
>
> On 5 Jun 1996, Mike Lawrence wrote:
>
> >
> Actually, I'm curious how other polyweres (or whatever you'd prefer
> to be called us) deal with their multiple animal aspects. I'm also
> curious if anyone has any idea why we polyweres feel that there are
> several animals which are an integral part of our beings, as opposed to
> most weres who have only one animal aspect.
>
> So, anyone have any ideas on "polywerism" or would like to express how
> they deal with their animal aspects?
>
> With warmest affection (purrrrrrr)
> AutumnLeaf
> How is a polywere like a polywog?
Seriously, I ejoyed reading how you deal with your multiple animal selves. From what I
can gather, "polywereism" may simply be a natural aspect of a shaman's deep connection
with his/her totem spirits/animal guides.
Personally, I haven't has any trouble intergrating my different animal aspects. Some
older (much older! :)) friends have explained my case this way: "you are
one-who-is-many", meaning my were-self is a melding of different species. I take on
aspects of bear, feline, wolf (dominant), dragon (this is Spirit we're dealing with,
after all), and even horse (an herbivore? go figure). All blend into a coherent
whole.
Am not sure how common my particular type of polywereism is, but I offer this as a
hopeful introduction of myself and what I am to the pack.
Hoping and howling, Jewel
CAYCEE AURORA PRICERick Niess
Rick Niess
On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, CAYCEE AURORA PRICE <ca_...@alcor.concordia.ca>
wrote:
>> Well, exCUUUuUUse me! <g> And I thought you liked me. <griggle>
>> Still, Tiger and Lion are two parts of me that I'm rather fond of
>> (along with White Wolf and Bear). Perhaps they could just use a
>> little...revision? <g> Howls, Growls 'n Purrs...
>< <the cougar looks up at this outburst from the youngling and says to him>
>"Oh but I *DO* like you Rick.<G&H> In fact it is those sublimated feline
>characteristics that make me think of you fondly as an idiotic son who just
>needs to get his priorities straight :> <ECG>. As soon as you realise that
Er, gee, thanx for the vote of confidance... <g>
>while on occasion cats are outmatched physically, they are ALWAYS in the
>superior position intellectually and morally. <sighs> Now if only the *rest*
>of the animal kingdom would acknowledge this fact of innate feline superiority
>we could get on with things with the felines in charge and the world would be
>a much better place for it." <this said he removes his tongue from his cheek
OKAAaay...! If i hadn't just gotten the toungue-in-cheek pun, I
might have retorted a bit. <g>
>and looks around> "Anybody got any catnip?"
Sure! Here, have some on me. </me retrieves a small cloth bag
of
catnip on a string from thin air and playfully dnagles it in front of
the
WereFeline whose name he still can't pronounce confidently and waits
for a
reaction>
><It's not conceit if it's TRUE!
<ValleyGirl> Uh, like, yeah, like what*ever*. </ValleyGirl> <G>
Howls,
Growls 'n Purrs...
CAYCEE AURORA PRICE
> >> Well, exCUUUuUUse me! <g> And I thought you liked me. <griggle>
> >> Still, Tiger and Lion are two parts of me that I'm rather fond of
> >> (along with White Wolf and Bear). Perhaps they could just use a
> >> little...revision? <g> Howls, Growls 'n Purrs...
> >< <the cougar looks up at this outburst from the youngling and says to him>
> >"Oh but I *DO* like you Rick.<G&H> In fact it is those sublimated feline
> >characteristics that make me think of you fondly as an idiotic son who just
> >needs to get his priorities straight :> <ECG>. As soon as you realise that
>
> Er, gee, thanx for the vote of confidance... <g>
< You're most welcome.:) "You're young, that's not your fault..." to
take
a line from Cat Stevens, a great musician (and a cat you will note
<G>), and
will eventually grow out of it. Once you come to the conclusion that
felines
are the best thing to happen to this sorry planet you'll be fine.;)
<G>
> >while on occasion cats are outmatched physically, they are ALWAYS in the
> >superior position intellectually and morally. <sighs> Now if only the *rest*
> >of the animal kingdom would acknowledge this fact of innate feline superiority
> >we could get on with things with the felines in charge and the world would be
> >a much better place for it." <this said he removes his tongue from his cheek
> OKAAaay...! If i hadn't just gotten the toungue-in-cheek pun, I
> might have retorted a bit. <g>
< That was put there to mollify the non felines. The felines *KNOW* of
course, that it is ALL true <g>. Once we cats are running things the
world
will be a much happier place. Among the humans, the ancient Egyptians
were
the only ones who got it right. We ARE godlike. <G>
> >and looks around> "Anybody got any catnip?"
> Sure! Here, have some on me. </me retrieves a small cloth bag of
> catnip on a string from thin air and playfully dnagles it in front of the
> WereFeline whose name he still can't pronounce confidently and waits for a
> reaction>
< <Swats at the dangly indolently with a paw, tailtip quivering as
his
nostrils widen slightly, then pounces on the bag> "Snack Time!"
<proceeds to
circle the bag on the ground in front of him quietly singing "I'm
gonna get
ya little catnip..." before pouncing on it " Too slow for me little
catnip
bag!" and consuming the contents with great relish>
> ><It's not conceit if it's TRUE!
>
> <ValleyGirl> Uh, like, yeah, like what*ever*. </ValleyGirl> <G> Howls,
> Growls 'n Purrs...
< Ge'heil'es
< MuurrRROOWWwwrrr <Creeping slowly into a stoned state with a HUGE
grin on
CAYCEE AURORA PRICE
On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Jewel wrote:
> Phelan wrote:
> > On 5 Jun 1996, Mike Lawrence wrote:
> > Actually, I'm curious how other polyweres ...((( ) slashing rather a lot
> > more to save space...deal with their animal aspects?
> >
> > With warmest affection (purrrrrrr)
> > AutumnLeaf
> > How is a polywere like a polywog?
< I'm probably gonna regret this <sigh> How?
> Seriously, I ejoyed reading how you deal with your multiple animal selves. From what I
> can gather, "polywereism" may simply be a natural aspect of a shaman's deep connection
> with his/her totem spirits/animal guides.
> Personally, I haven't has any trouble intergrating my different animal aspects. Some
> older (much older! :)) friends have explained my case this way: "you are
> one-who-is-many", meaning my were-self is a melding of different species. I take on
> aspects of bear, feline, wolf (dominant), dragon (this is Spirit we're dealing with,
> after all), and even horse (an herbivore? go figure). All blend into a coherent
> whole.
> Am not sure how common my particular type of polywereism is, but I offer this as a
> hopeful introduction of myself and what I am to the pack.
> Hoping and howling, Jewel
< Greetings Jewel! <the cougar comes over,following a slightly erratic path
[catnip'll do that to you ;)], and sniffs the newcomer then nuzzles them
before sitting down with a thump> "You and Autumnleaf are real internal
menageries arentcha? And I thought that three was a job to deal with. I'm a
cougar, a hawk and a gryphon myself, with the cougar the dominant side for
me. I' Ge'heil'es by the way. Be welcome here at the fire, pull up some
ground and join in by all means." <nuzzles Jewel again, then makes his way
back to his usual spot, albeit NOT in a straight line, and falls over> "THAT
was GOOD 'nip. Wonder where he got it?" < and closes his eyes>>
Ge'heil'es
Still feeling the buzz
Michael J. Rider
In article <decwolf-0906...@prv-ri1-09.ix.netcom.com>,
dec...@ix.netcom.com (Keith Pepin/DECwolf) wrote:
> Well, after spending about 2 minutes trying to decipher that damn mess of
> quoting, I have one thing to stir into any potential comparison of cats
> and canines. Canines have MUCH nicer penises.
Eh? You have something against spines maybe? Who would want to be tied
together for a half hour? What are you supposed to do, read the paper
while waiting for the knot to go down?
Keith Pepin/DECwolf
In article <jaguar-1006...@m3-08.warwick.net>, jag...@warwick.net
(Michael J. Rider) wrote:
-> In article <decwolf-0906...@prv-ri1-09.ix.netcom.com>,
-> dec...@ix.netcom.com (Keith Pepin/DECwolf) wrote:
->
-> > Well, after spending about 2 minutes trying to decipher that damn mess of
-> > quoting, I have one thing to stir into any potential comparison of cats
-> > and canines. Canines have MUCH nicer penises.
->
-> Eh? You have something against spines maybe? Who would want to be tied
-> together for a half hour? What are you supposed to do, read the paper
-> while waiting for the knot to go down?
While you wait for the knot to go down is the best part. You don't have to
do any more work, but it feels just as good as when you were pumping with
everything you had in you. And, me, personally, while I'm waiting I like
to sit there and think about VMS. As to being tied together for a half
hour, I know of a lot of humans who use ropes and handcuffs to do it.
Chris Johnson
> > >> The problem with what you said is that felines are always right.
> > >< <the Cougar nods again, pausing to lick his paw> "*EXACTLY SO!*
Even if we
> superior position intellectually and morally. <sighs> Now if only the *rest*
> of the animal kingdom would acknowledge this fact of innate feline superiority
*hehehehehe*
Gee, my personal felinity tends to assert itself in not caring about
superiority anyways :)
Felines are certainly, unarguably superior at being felines ;) what
more could anyone ask? What difference does it make to me if other types
are superior physically, intellectually, morally or whatever?
My felinity does not depend on its making me superior to anybody-
that's a silly notion if I may say so :) I don't have to fear losing this
aspect of my nature if I am outmatched in any respect. I mentioned
skulking off to hide somewhere licking my wounds- and have done this
before in situations that hurt me deeply and did _not_ leave me feeling
superior.
In these situations it helped to draw strength from the feline nature-
crawling off to hide somewhere until I recovered was not, to me, the act
of a bad, irresponsible human who wilfully avoids sharing with people, but
the act of an injured feline finding somewhere safe to cope.
Understanding that helped me avoid beating myself up for the isolating
tendencies- and accepting the instinctive desire to do that helped it pass
in its own time. When I reached out again it was because I felt ready to
do so, not because I felt I was expected to.
Particularly with weres and others who feel a strong theme or center to
their psyche, I feel it's important to work with one's true nature rather
than fighting it :) with me, the feline is a strong theme that integrates
a lot of aspects of my personality. It's something I can look at and
think, "That's me. I fit." That's important :)
Jinx_tigr
(aka Chris Johnson)
Mike Lawrence
I am glad to see that i was not alone. That's interseting. about the
way you shift into other animals. I am really new at this and have been
very unsuccessful. How did you get these animals behaivors and sounds,
from videos? Could someone tell me if there is a guide to all this
shape shifting process?
Mike Lawrence
Chris Johnson
In article <31bcf00e...@babbage.ece.uc.edu>,
sau...@ucunix.san.uc.edu wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:54:17 -0500, Jewel <vale...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >Am not sure how common my particular type of polywereism is, but I
offer this as a
> >hopeful introduction of myself and what I am to the pack.
> Welcome to the group...hope you enjoy your stay, from another
> "polywere"...I'm a tiger (extremely dominant) and a wolf m'self.
Fair enough- I'm feline, nothing else, personally :)
However, I've looked into totem medicine card stuff (incredible appeal
to a were/furry, beats the heck out of tarot or whatever :) ) and there
are a number of very important totems to me. Not me directly, but still
significant...
Rabbit came up for 'when to be humble and when to trust' and that says
a lot. Rabbit isn't the most courageous totem as far as telling you what's
safe, isn't great with confidence. However, knowing that helps to work
with it :)
Owl came up for 'personal truth' and this also makes sense. Owl is
spooky and entirely too observant for comfort. It's awkward to see into
situations and people that way. I grew up in a family with drug addiction
going on and lots of denial, _very_ good concealment. Owl's probably why I
_knew_ something was going on, why I could never go along with the denial
even though there were _no_ clues to the truth of the situation. All I
knew was that something was wrong- but I _knew_ that.
Within, the guardian of personal space, the revealer of personal truth,
was Snake. That is very interesting and significant- Snake medicine
involves the transmutation of poison to strength. Frankly, I've seen a lot
of poison, poisoned myself with drugs for years etc etc, and in some ways
it's surprising I'm still alive- except, there is Snake, transmuting those
poisons to 'fire medicine'. I can see that working in my life.
Finally, the totem for Right Side (male, courage, warrior spirit) was
Weasel. That's a strong one but difficult. It's another overperceptive
one, perhaps too cagey but one can use it positively as well. It 'has an
incredible amount of energy and ingenuity' though it is difficult to
manage.
IMHO one does not have to _be_ many different totems to be guided by
them :) I'm still a feline.
Jinx_tigr
(aka Chris Johnson)
Chris Johnson
In article <4pdcfr$d...@axe.netdoor.com>, rni...@ocean.st.usm.edu wrote:
> (2) On the Converse, because humans have not grown up with the ability
> to seriously harm other humans at will (or it was really discouraged,
> anyway)(ie, claws, teeth, etc), would humans be ready to handle that
> kind of responsibility? Would posing greater threats to each other
> make us more 'civilized' or just paranoid? Perhaps this is the reason
> we have bullies and then the bullied.
This is _exactly_ why Konrad Lorenz in his book On Aggression
considered wolves _in_ _particular_ more civilized and trustable than
humans. Humans did not grow up with 200 (2000?) pounds of bite strength.
It is direct physical weaponry that forces a species to develop powerful
societal instincts- pressing a button or trigger does not count (though it
may begin showing an effect, say, in the inner cities).
Jinx_tigr
(aka Chris Johnson)
Phelan
On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Jewel wrote:
> Phelan wrote:
> >
> > On 5 Jun 1996, Mike Lawrence wrote:
> >
> > >
> > Actually, I'm curious how other polyweres (or whatever you'd prefer
> > to be called us) deal with their multiple animal aspects. I'm also
> > curious if anyone has any idea why we polyweres feel that there are
> > several animals which are an integral part of our beings, as opposed to
> > most weres who have only one animal aspect.
> >
> > (Lots of intesting stuff deleted for space reasons.)
>
> > So, anyone have any ideas on "polywerism" or would like to express how
> > they deal with their animal aspects?
> >
> > With warmest affection (purrrrrrr)
> > AutumnLeaf
> > How is a polywere like a polywog?
How did that last line get on my old post line, anyway? In case anyone's
wondering, it isn't mine, and I'm not sure where it came from... That's
weird....
> Seriously, I ejoyed reading how you deal with your multiple animal selves. From what I
> can gather, "polywereism" may simply be a natural aspect of a shaman's deep connection
> with his/her totem spirits/animal guides.
Ahh, but not all polyweres are shaman. (Didn't I mention this on one of
my posts? I haven't seen it... Hope my servers not being fruity again...)
> Personally, I haven't has any trouble intergrating my different animal aspects. Some
> older (much older! :)) friends have explained my case this way: "you are
> one-who-is-many", meaning my were-self is a melding of different species. I take on
> aspects of bear, feline, wolf (dominant), dragon (this is Spirit we're dealing with,
> after all), and even horse (an herbivore? go figure). All blend into a coherent
> whole.
I like this idea. One note, though. Maybe I was a wee bit tired when I
wrote that post, but let me clarify what I meant. It's not that my
animals were opposed to eachother, it was just difficult for my human
side to relate too them all. Mostly this was from all the conformity
programming I had been recieving all my life. It took me a long time to
finally accept that they were, indeed, an integral part of my being and
to face them. OTOH, I'm still trying to figure out how they all correlate
to make me who I am. Only a few I have actively worked with as totems.
The rest are sort of 'out there', waiting for me to understand them and
accept their meaning and purpose in my life. But I do accept that all
these beings are one with me.
> Am not sure how common my particular type of polywereism is, but I offer this as a
> hopeful introduction of myself and what I am to the pack.
I'm curious if your type of polywereism really is different from mine...
Perhaps the more the talk, the more we'll understand. :)
> Hoping and howling, Jewel
With AAARRrrrrrroOOooo's and purrrrrrrrrs
And a hundred more sounds I can quite spell,
AutumnLeaf
James Harrion III
: > That poses an interesting question. Are there any felines. I consider
: > lions-courage. anyways, are ther any werelions out there too or am i just
: > strange?
:
: Greetings! Yes, I'm a werelion too! And a werewolf. And a werefox. And a
: wereraccon. And a werejaguar. And a weretiger. And a werehawk... Then
: again, I think I'm a were-just-about-everything!. And you were wondering
: if you were strange! ;)
I was kind of thinking about this for a while and I was wondering if you're
defining being were in the same sense as I've seen it defined as around
the Virtual Fire, in which a lot of weres have one (or maybe two animal
sides) and while they shift into other animals at various times, there's
typically one that's personality-dominant?
Sincerely,
--
***********************************************************************
Winterdreamer ez04...@ucdavis.edu
AHWW pack member
Phelan
On 14 Jun 1996, James Harrion III wrote:
> I was kind of thinking about this for a while and I was wondering if you're
> defining being were in the same sense as I've seen it defined as around
> the Virtual Fire, in which a lot of weres have one (or maybe two animal
> sides) and while they shift into other animals at various times, there's
> typically one that's personality-dominant?
Hmm... Well, I'm not really trying to define what being were is, as I
feel that it's more of a personal thing and cannot be so generalized. I
will admit, though, that some of my phenotypes are more dominant than
others. I would venture to say that my fox, wolf, raccoon, and jaguar
aspects are equally dominant. (One of the reasons I included them on my
werecard.) I certainly don't have a single dominant phenotype! I hope
this answers your question.
> Sincerely,
>
> --
> ***********************************************************************
> Winterdreamer ez04...@ucdavis.edu
> AHWW pack member
With purrs, howls, chitters, etc. :)
William J. H. Spears
: >That poses an interesting question. Are there any felines. I consider
: >myself to be a lycanthrope, although I have an obsession with
: >lions-courage. anyways, are ther any werelions out there too or am i just
: > strange?
: >
Within these realms lurk myriad felines, numbers beyond numbers. We hunt,
lurk, and we vanish into the mists that cloak cyberspace in confusion.
Yet, we occassionally return to mark our territory and examine the
hunting.
I am the rising tempest
The wind without warning
I AM WILLIWAW, KING CHEETAH
LORD OF THE HOUSE OF SPEARS!
Harken to me when in my realm!!
spe...@is2.nyu.edu
Naganadi
Interested to learn more about Cheetah shapeshifting.
King Cheetah, huh? Cheetahs may be the fleetest afoot of the felines.
This probably accounts for their apparent survival from extiction! But...
no disrespect intended of course ( since we cannot choose our lineages),
but cheetahs can't climb, in hunting they back down to others hungry for
their kill (even if they outnumber jackals 4:1 they run away). Even in
totemistic ritual, heirarchy isn't a very common trait. Not many lord
shamans in any culture that I have ever heard of. (Expand on this)
Whatever the case...I am still interested in learning a little more about
lore, history, ritual, etc. associated with cheetahs.
You're not quite an asian white tiger, but I guess you're still family.
;-)
-naganadi/poh li ('dragon flow/vigorious animal life force'-vital energy
or life force that torrents through the animal self connecting us to all
and everything to us)
MoonShadow
WILLIWAW!!! ::POUNCE!!:: Where in the world have you been, awww... Who cares, it
is good to see you, again! Tell me, what have you been up to these days!?
--
Blessed Be, from MoonShadow,
a.k.a. moons...@ka.net
. . n, _ _ _
. * + _/ | _ ( | ) _ _ _ ( |_ _ _| _
. /' `' / | | |(_)(_)| )_)| )(_|(_|(_)(_|_)
. + <~ .'
. .' | . AHWW HelpStaffer,
+ * _/ | ___/_\___ Spiritual Therianthrope,
. _/ `.`. ~-./ \.-~ Proud Member of AHWW
/ ' \__ | | /~=-=~\ and IRC junkie
___/ /__\ \ \ /-~ ~-\
(___.'\_______)\_|_|
/St.Bernard German- \ Known as MnShadow on IRC
| Shephard mix with \ http://ka.net/moonshadow
| Wolf in the Pedigree \
William J. H. Spears
Naganadi (naga...@aol.com) wrote:
: King Cheetah, huh? Cheetahs may be the fleetest afoot of the felines.
: no disrespect intended of course ( since we cannot choose our lineages),
I'm sure.
: but cheetahs can't climb, in hunting they back down to others hungry for
: their kill (even if they outnumber jackals 4:1 they run away). Even in
Since when can't cheetahs climb? Cheetahs are the most successful
hunters due to their speed. They lose their kills to hyenas when after
they have exhausted their energy in the chase and are intelligent enough
to know when they can or cannot fight, knowing that if they are wounded in
a fight with an animal known for crushing jaws, then they will have
difficulty making another kill. Cheetahs can take down more animals in a
day hunting alone than can other animals hunting in concert. Half
of cheetah hunts are successful. Cheetahs know this and do not fear that
they'll starve if they lose a kill to the lazier species.
It has been argued that due to the shape of a cheetah's body, they would
be able to move quickly even without legs.
: totemistic ritual, heirarchy isn't a very common trait. Not many lord
: shamans in any culture that I have ever heard of. (Expand on this)
King Cheetah has nothing to do with hierarchical structures. It is a
subspecies within the cheetah genus Acinonyx. The king cheetah has
parallel stripes down its back.
: Whatever the case...I am still interested in learning a little more about
: lore, history, ritual, etc. associated with cheetahs.
: You're not quite an asian white tiger, but I guess you're still family.
: ;-)
Actually, genetically, cheetahs are more closely related to dogs than
they are to cats, but we're still cats. Small cats, that is. Cheetahs do
not fall into the ranks of the big cats.
As for our extinction problem, we owe a great deal to man, as some
governments authorize the killing of 700 cheetahs per year within their
country alone, not to mention the rapid enviornmental changes that
cheetahs are incapable of coping with since they have remained basically
unchanged since god only knows when. The encroachment of man has
decreased the amount of land available to the cheetahs and when pushed
into tight quarters with their arch-enemies (lions and hyenas) it's a
wonder there are any left on the planet.
Any more questions?
--
WILLIWAW, KING CHEETAHS
"THIS IS MY BLOOD YOU DRINK
THIS IS MY BODY YOU EAT
IF YOU WOULD REMEMBER ME
WHEN YOU EAT AND DRINK" -- Jesus Christ Superstar
spe...@is2.nyu.edu
Spyder Witiko
In article <4q5190$4...@news.nyu.edu>, spe...@is2.nyu.edu (William J. H.
Spears) wrote:
>: >That poses an interesting question. Are there any felines. I consider
>: >myself to be a lycanthrope, although I have an obsession with
>: >lions-courage. anyways, are ther any werelions out there too or am i just
>: > strange?
>: >
>
>Within these realms lurk myriad felines, numbers beyond numbers. We hunt,
>lurk, and we vanish into the mists that cloak cyberspace in confusion.
>Yet, we occassionally return to mark our territory and examine the
>hunting.
>
>I am the rising tempest
>The wind without warning
>I AM WILLIWAW, KING CHEETAH
>LORD OF THE HOUSE OF SPEARS!
>
>Harken to me when in my realm!!
>spe...@is2.nyu.edu
Heya! Williwaw! Howya been, cuz? Loooooong time no see.
- Spyder, witiko-at-large
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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We -know- for certain that things are not as they seem. We -know-
that this world is full of dangerous and mysterious powers. That
gives us an advantage..." Whitley Strieber - 'The Wild'
___ ___
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Wanderer
> naga...@aol.com (Naganadi) wrote in article
<4q6bi1$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>...
> You're not quite an asian white tiger, but I guess you're still family.
> ;-)
>
<chuckle> According to the palaeontologists, a lot of us are family ...
it seems canines and felines evolved from a common ancestor.:>
Yours interested in the reaction to this one,;>
The feline-trained,
Wanderer
wand...@why.net
wand...@whytel.com
AloneWoof
In Message-ID: <4q6bi1$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> dated 18 Jun 1996
09:39:13 -0400, Naganadi (nada...@aol.com) wrote:
>Interested to learn more about Cheetah shapeshifting.
>King Cheetah, huh? Cheetahs may be the fleetest afoot of the felines.
>This probably accounts for their apparent survival from extiction!
But...
>no disrespect intended of course ( since we cannot choose our lineages),
>but cheetahs can't climb, in hunting they back down to others hungry for
>their kill (even if they outnumber jackals 4:1 they run away). Even in
>totemistic ritual, heirarchy isn't a very common trait. Not many lord
>shamans in any culture that I have ever heard of. (Expand on this)
>Whatever the case...I am still interested in learning a little more about
>lore, history, ritual, etc. associated with cheetahs.
I don't think King Cheetah refers to linage here, but to the coat pattern.
King Cheetahs are a color aberration that appears naturally in regular
cheetah litters, much like the white coat variation of Bengals occurs in
regular tiger litters, or the black coat coloration of the leopard. To
describe it, all the black spots sort of run together, and the markings
are much more bold and detailed than in a regular cheetah. It was
originally thought that Kings were a subspecies, but now they are
recognized as a coat variant only.
So perhaps you are closer kin than you thought, eh?
Pleasant Hunting!
Alone Wolf
//this is the bright frontier//right now...right here// --Heather
Nova
CongRATulations Florida Panthers!
NHL's 1996 Eastern Conference Champions!
Naganadi
Thanks for your insight on cheetahs. It was very informative, as I am
especially cheetah illiterate. I heard about lack of great climbing
ability from a colleague (ie. can't carry their catch to a safe place). I
am sorry I didn't mean 'cannot' climb, as in not at all, but even by
themselves they struggle climbing savannah trees.
Oh, yes still one more question. Still unanswered is my query in regards
to lore, ritual, and history of shapeshifting and cheetahs. Please
elaborate as I am unfamiliar with your culture's totemistic connection to
this animal. I am not talking just individualistic ritual. Even the
highly developed individualistic cults of the plains Indians of North
America incorporated their practices with shamanistic and totemistic
ritual (two very communal rituals). If this is not just affinity for you,
I ask you to please expand on the cultural ties of the cheetah and the
peoples that take on its abilities.
Thanks again for your time.
-naganadi/poh li ('dragon flow/vigorious animal life force'-vital energy
or life force that torrents through the animal self binding us always to
the universal law of simultaneousness of cause and effect)
James Harrion III
Phelan (phe...@biddeford.com) wrote:
: On 14 Jun 1996, James Harrion III wrote:
:
: > I was kind of thinking about this for a while and I was wondering if you're
: > defining being were in the same sense as I've seen it defined as around
: > the Virtual Fire, in which a lot of weres have one (or maybe two animal
: > sides) and while they shift into other animals at various times, there's
: > typically one that's personality-dominant?
:
: Hmm... Well, I'm not really trying to define what being were is, as I
: feel that it's more of a personal thing and cannot be so generalized.
So would this mean that you don't have a personal definition either, or
that you don't have any definitions at all as far as this is concerned?
AutumnLeaf
On 22 Jun 1996, James Harrion III wrote:
> Phelan (phe...@biddeford.com) wrote:
> : On 14 Jun 1996, James Harrion III wrote:
> :
> : > I was kind of thinking about this for a while and I was wondering
if you'$
> : > defining being were in the same sense as I've seen it defined as around
> : > the Virtual Fire, in which a lot of weres have one (or maybe two animal
> : > sides) and while they shift into other animals at various times,
there's
> : > typically one that's personality-dominant?
> :
> : Hmm... Well, I'm not really trying to define what being were is, as I
> : feel that it's more of a personal thing and cannot be so generalized.
>
> So would this mean that you don't have a personal definition either, or
> that you don't have any definitions at all as far as this is concerned?
Of course I have a personal definition. <looks at old post> Yes, I can see
where there would be some confusion in what I was saying.
Hmmm.. It's rather difficult to put my understanding of being a were into
words, though, except by giving examples of all my life's experiences
which have led me to where I am now. Let's see.... I'll see what I can do:
For me, being a were is a constantly evolving part of who I am. Rather
than having one or two dominant animals, as you suggested, which I'll risk
inferring that this means that they are your phenotypes for life, mine are
constantly shifting and evolving. For instance, my jaguar aspect is
relative new, but has had a profound impact on my life since her arrival,
in my actions and the way I view the world and such. My vixen was one of
the first animals I felt a very powerful connection with, to the point
that I felt it was part of me. But a few months ago, I felt that presence
in me leave. It was like a sudden shock to my system.... I just lost
control and began to cry uncontrollable. It was like part of my soul was
ripped from my body. Such was my connection to the vixen... I'm just glad
she's back. And other animals, who were an important aspect of myself,
but have sort of moved away somewhat, like the white tiger, red-tailed
hawk, spotted white owl, walaby, and the others. I'm not simply one
animal, but many... coming, going... constantly evolving... It's really hard
for me to explain what I'm trying to say. These animals, whichever ones
are currently dominant, and even the ones who have come before and now
stand in the background, they are a very important part of who and what I
am. I can't be separate from them. I don't know what more I can do to
elaborate on this. Of course, right now I am rather tired.
Please, feel free to ask any further questions you wish. Maybe these
would help me explain what I'm trying to say.
> ***********************************************************************
> Winterdreamer ez04...@ucdavis.edu
> AHWW pack member
The overly tired,
AutumnLeaf