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Was Lovecraft Mentally Ill?
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bruce turlish
Aug 18, 2014, 6:07:31 AM8/18/14
to
Just thought I'd throw this topic out for discussion. I believe that Sprague DeCamp thought he suffered from a schizoid personality disorder. Further, I believe that HPL never really held a "real" job, which can be an indication of mental illness. On the other hand, he was married briefly, and had a rich social life via letters, though perhaps not so much in person. Additionally, he never committed suicide, unlike REH. His death of cancer in his late forties might be an indication that he neglected himself physically, since I believe his cancer was said to be treatable if caught early enough. I think the term "talented misfit" is most apt for HPL, but he may have suffered from some genuine psychiatric maladies as well. Comments?
Bobby Dee
Aug 18, 2014, 11:29:24 AM8/18/14
to
Lovecraft had a nervous breakdown in his teens that caused him to not finish highschool, which is documented well enough; most of the other posthumous efforts at psychoanalysis are bad speculation. Lovecraft may not have been able to land a regular job, but that's not to say he didn't work - he had a busy schedule as a freelance revisionist, editor, and ghost writer for different clients which paid, if not well. His limited funds did lend him the habit of developing economies of living - like a limited diet with little fresh fruit or vegetables - which may have led to or been part of the difficulties surrounding his terminal illness. But he traveled extensively on his limited budget, wrote voluminously to his correspondents, and visited and was visited by his many friends.
Arthur Bulldike
Aug 18, 2014, 4:34:06 PM8/18/14
to
I’m a psychotherapist and I would agree that the psychoanalysis of Lovecraft
I’ve read is indeed bad speculation. One might argue traits of a schizoid
personality, certainly traits of one, but in terms of illness being
maladaptive and pathological, I’m inclined to disagree. I’m more inclined to
think that Lovecraft was raised a dysfunctional family with a vein of mental
disease running through their genealogy and that his own psychological
make-up, while unusual, delicate and externally rigid, was commendable given
their influence on his development and his own unhappy circumstances. I lay
no claim to being an expert on Lovecraft’s life history, but I thought it
might be interesting to sketch a few professional ideas based on what I
know.
Lovecraft was certainly eccentric in terms of his personality;
over-sensitive, archaic and rigid... however this always struck me as a
system of organised psychological defences against the paranoid and
traumatised projections of his family. His intellectual and creative
functions seem able to process the projections of his own and his family’s
experiences through his writing. Lovecraft’s interests as a youth were in
science, fantasy and journalism. His extraordinary dreams may be a dialogue
between his genius and his literary interests. His subconscious mind would
use such a dialogue to release the peculiar values of his family into his
dreams, allowing his rational intellect some thinking space. Lovecraft’s
perception that many of his dreams were unpleasant would add weight to such
a hypothesis.
If we consider the way such a process would manifest as a psychological
defence in adult life, the best example for me would be his post-Brooklyn
writing phase on returning to Providence. Lovecraft’s stay in Brooklyn
imposed conditions of solitude, poverty, frustration and cultural isolation.
This is a classic arrangement of malign influences for causing depression
and psychosis. Lovecraft lived in Brooklyn for around two years. A mental
health professional would expect a diagnosed patient in Lovecraft’s
situation to have 2 or 3 major episodes of illness in that time, require at
least one extended stay in hospital, exhibit chronic symptoms and abuse
drugs or alcohol. Psychotic patients often write letters and stories during
that time, but these would be preoccupied with their psychosis; bizarre,
fragmented and subjective. Paranoid psychotics also tend not to care about
other’s opinions of their ideas. Such ideas often express a gross internal
logic that is as awkward and cumbersome as is needed to hold together their
fragmented interpretations of everyday life. Simply put, they don’t read
well. Their interest is in their own internal world and anything they write
about it explains their ideas perfectly. Other people either get it or they
don’t. The criticisms that Lovecraft endured would be met with hostility by
a psychotic person, or else dismissed.
Returning to schizoid personality as a disorder, people with schizoid
personalities are generally aloof, with lukewarm emotions and passive
responses. The key defence I would present against a disorder is that such
people have great difficulty engaging in meaningful communication; colourful
metaphors, humorous exchanges and expansive prose are rarely seen.
Correspondence is typically repetitive, laborious and bland. Where the
internal world of a psychotic is distorted, a schizoid person’s is empty.
Interestingly, a desire to travel is often noted, such a person travelling
in search of something to fill their inner emptiness with meaning. This
could be argued by the detail found in Lovecraft’s travel writing, however
his enthusiasm, his curiosity and his descriptions of his friends all stand
against it.
While not (in my opinion) mentally ill in terms of a diagnosed disease,
Lovecraft may have benefitted from therapy. The difficulties with intimacy
and achievement that are manifest throughout his adult life can certainly be
argued as troublesome. Meeting Lovecraft in his thirties as a new client, I
would consider the following themes for initial discussion:
(1) The period during early adulthood where HPL rarely left the family home.
This is the age when adults experience shifts in the libido. Broadly
speaking, the sexual energy of puberty is sublimated into the adult desire
for intimacy and society. Lovecraft may have been entered into an incubation
period where he organised his libido into a reserved persona that could
buffer the values of his emotionally incestuous family against the approach
of intimate relationships, friendships and ordinary social life.
(2) His history of physical illness and negative self-image. People with low
levels of expressed emotion are prone to manifest emotional stresses
somatically, as sickness and feelings of being physically unattractive.
(3) His feelings of creative failure in light of his early prodigy.
Prodigious children are especially vulnerable to the projections of adults
and their achievement may be prioritised over their individuality. Many fail
in adult life and feel chronically frustrated and misunderstood.
(4) Most people who benefit from therapy encounter a depressed phase where
their energy feels blocked or spent. Creativity is particularly susceptible
to this and writing is what Lovecraft was abou. HPL may find this stage
especially traumatic and run the risk of ending his therapy at a crucial
point.
(5) Dream therapy. Maybe. With a supervisor. Otherwise I might lose myself
as a therapist and wind up a character from his stories. ;-)
I’ve read is indeed bad speculation. One might argue traits of a schizoid
personality, certainly traits of one, but in terms of illness being
maladaptive and pathological, I’m inclined to disagree. I’m more inclined to
think that Lovecraft was raised a dysfunctional family with a vein of mental
disease running through their genealogy and that his own psychological
make-up, while unusual, delicate and externally rigid, was commendable given
their influence on his development and his own unhappy circumstances. I lay
no claim to being an expert on Lovecraft’s life history, but I thought it
might be interesting to sketch a few professional ideas based on what I
know.
Lovecraft was certainly eccentric in terms of his personality;
over-sensitive, archaic and rigid... however this always struck me as a
system of organised psychological defences against the paranoid and
traumatised projections of his family. His intellectual and creative
functions seem able to process the projections of his own and his family’s
experiences through his writing. Lovecraft’s interests as a youth were in
science, fantasy and journalism. His extraordinary dreams may be a dialogue
between his genius and his literary interests. His subconscious mind would
use such a dialogue to release the peculiar values of his family into his
dreams, allowing his rational intellect some thinking space. Lovecraft’s
perception that many of his dreams were unpleasant would add weight to such
a hypothesis.
If we consider the way such a process would manifest as a psychological
defence in adult life, the best example for me would be his post-Brooklyn
writing phase on returning to Providence. Lovecraft’s stay in Brooklyn
imposed conditions of solitude, poverty, frustration and cultural isolation.
This is a classic arrangement of malign influences for causing depression
and psychosis. Lovecraft lived in Brooklyn for around two years. A mental
health professional would expect a diagnosed patient in Lovecraft’s
situation to have 2 or 3 major episodes of illness in that time, require at
least one extended stay in hospital, exhibit chronic symptoms and abuse
drugs or alcohol. Psychotic patients often write letters and stories during
that time, but these would be preoccupied with their psychosis; bizarre,
fragmented and subjective. Paranoid psychotics also tend not to care about
other’s opinions of their ideas. Such ideas often express a gross internal
logic that is as awkward and cumbersome as is needed to hold together their
fragmented interpretations of everyday life. Simply put, they don’t read
well. Their interest is in their own internal world and anything they write
about it explains their ideas perfectly. Other people either get it or they
don’t. The criticisms that Lovecraft endured would be met with hostility by
a psychotic person, or else dismissed.
Returning to schizoid personality as a disorder, people with schizoid
personalities are generally aloof, with lukewarm emotions and passive
responses. The key defence I would present against a disorder is that such
people have great difficulty engaging in meaningful communication; colourful
metaphors, humorous exchanges and expansive prose are rarely seen.
Correspondence is typically repetitive, laborious and bland. Where the
internal world of a psychotic is distorted, a schizoid person’s is empty.
Interestingly, a desire to travel is often noted, such a person travelling
in search of something to fill their inner emptiness with meaning. This
could be argued by the detail found in Lovecraft’s travel writing, however
his enthusiasm, his curiosity and his descriptions of his friends all stand
against it.
While not (in my opinion) mentally ill in terms of a diagnosed disease,
Lovecraft may have benefitted from therapy. The difficulties with intimacy
and achievement that are manifest throughout his adult life can certainly be
argued as troublesome. Meeting Lovecraft in his thirties as a new client, I
would consider the following themes for initial discussion:
(1) The period during early adulthood where HPL rarely left the family home.
This is the age when adults experience shifts in the libido. Broadly
speaking, the sexual energy of puberty is sublimated into the adult desire
for intimacy and society. Lovecraft may have been entered into an incubation
period where he organised his libido into a reserved persona that could
buffer the values of his emotionally incestuous family against the approach
of intimate relationships, friendships and ordinary social life.
(2) His history of physical illness and negative self-image. People with low
levels of expressed emotion are prone to manifest emotional stresses
somatically, as sickness and feelings of being physically unattractive.
(3) His feelings of creative failure in light of his early prodigy.
Prodigious children are especially vulnerable to the projections of adults
and their achievement may be prioritised over their individuality. Many fail
in adult life and feel chronically frustrated and misunderstood.
(4) Most people who benefit from therapy encounter a depressed phase where
their energy feels blocked or spent. Creativity is particularly susceptible
to this and writing is what Lovecraft was abou. HPL may find this stage
especially traumatic and run the risk of ending his therapy at a crucial
point.
(5) Dream therapy. Maybe. With a supervisor. Otherwise I might lose myself
as a therapist and wind up a character from his stories. ;-)
Ramsey Campbell
Aug 19, 2014, 6:57:09 AM8/19/14
to
On Monday, 18 August 2014 11:07:31 UTC+1, bruce turlish wrote:
> Just thought I'd throw this topic out for discussion. I believe that Sprague DeCamp thought he suffered from a schizoid personality disorder. Further, I believe that HPL never really held a "real" job, which can be an indication of mental illness. On the other hand, he was married briefly, and had a rich social life via letters, though perhaps not so much in person. Additionally, he never committed suicide, unlike REH. His death of cancer in his late forties might be an indication that he neglected himself physically, since I believe his cancer was said to be treatable if caught early enough. I think the term "talented misfit" is most apt for HPL, but he may have suffered from some genuine psychiatric maladies as well. Comments?
I'd agree with both the answers myself. He may have had mental issues but subsumed them in the act of writing, like really quite a lot of writers. I'd say he was no worse off mentally than many of those.
> Just thought I'd throw this topic out for discussion. I believe that Sprague DeCamp thought he suffered from a schizoid personality disorder. Further, I believe that HPL never really held a "real" job, which can be an indication of mental illness. On the other hand, he was married briefly, and had a rich social life via letters, though perhaps not so much in person. Additionally, he never committed suicide, unlike REH. His death of cancer in his late forties might be an indication that he neglected himself physically, since I believe his cancer was said to be treatable if caught early enough. I think the term "talented misfit" is most apt for HPL, but he may have suffered from some genuine psychiatric maladies as well. Comments?
bruce turlish
Aug 19, 2014, 7:14:45 AM8/19/14
to
Arthur "the shrink" posted:
"...While not (in my opinion) mentally ill in terms of a diagnosed disease,
Poor Lovecraft! How could he have ever paid for all this proposed therapy on his limited budget. Perhaps as a great horror writer, he should get the hourly sessions for free...
"...While not (in my opinion) mentally ill in terms of a diagnosed disease,
Lovecraft may have benefitted from therapy. The difficulties with intimacy
and achievement that are manifest throughout his adult life can certainly be
argued as troublesome. Meeting Lovecraft in his thirties as a new client, I
would consider the following themes for initial discussion:..."
and achievement that are manifest throughout his adult life can certainly be
argued as troublesome. Meeting Lovecraft in his thirties as a new client, I
Poor Lovecraft! How could he have ever paid for all this proposed therapy on his limited budget. Perhaps as a great horror writer, he should get the hourly sessions for free...
Arthur Bulldike
Aug 19, 2014, 8:05:22 AM8/19/14
to
"Poor Lovecraft! How could he have ever paid for all this proposed therapy
on his limited budget. Perhaps as a great horror writer, he should get the
hourly sessions for free..."
It's not uncommon in my field. I carry a number of pro bono cases and
on his limited budget. Perhaps as a great horror writer, he should get the
hourly sessions for free..."
someone with HPL's circumstances would be a suitable candidate. Sometimes
it's the people with limited means who give you the most.
I'm not sure whether Lovecraft would want therapy tho... Reserved
individuals often rely on friendships, which give them the contentment of
being understood without being examined... and then there's his famous
opening line from the Call of Cthulhu...
bruce turlish
Aug 19, 2014, 8:26:45 AM8/19/14
to
Arthur "the shrink" posted:
"...I'm not sure whether Lovecraft would want therapy tho... Reserved
"...I'm not sure whether Lovecraft would want therapy tho... Reserved
individuals often rely on friendships, which give them the contentment of
being understood without being examined... and then there's his famous
opening line from the Call of Cthulhu..."
Yes--and also the distinct possibility that any therapy given just wouldn't work. Lovecraft would remain Lovecraft, with all his eccentricities unchanged. Further, if you "helped" him, it might dampen his literary creativity, and he might end up being more interested in girls, rather than horror.
being understood without being examined... and then there's his famous
opening line from the Call of Cthulhu..."
Ramsey Campbell
Aug 19, 2014, 10:09:47 AM8/19/14
to
Arthur Bulldike
Aug 19, 2014, 1:44:28 PM8/19/14
to
> Yes--and also the distinct possibility that any therapy given just
> wouldn't work. Lovecraft would remain Lovecraft, with all his
> eccentricities unchanged. Further, if you "helped" him, it might dampen
> his literary creativity, and he might end up being more interested in
> girls, rather than horror.
otherwise it’s bad therapy and bad therapy is meddling. My view is that
therapy is best suited to making sense of serious problems and making such
problems tolerable. While there are issues in Lovecraft’s life that many
people would seek therapy for, such would people would generally be openly
distressed and frustrated or limited in their creative expression.
Creativity is a thing in itself and best viewed as an asset and a source of
freedom and resilience. As I mentioned earlier, Lovecraft’s writing is a
brilliant sublimation of his difficult experiences and no responsible
therapist would seek to dilute it, compromise it or provide a substitute. I
could no more provide a better psychological framework for such a person any
more than I could write better fiction. I’d be much keener to encourage
their natural genius through episodes of rejection and frustration.
Likewise the eccentricities you mentioned are not a problem, they’re
expressions of an effective, albeit idiosyncratic psyche. What might have
been helpful for him would be to consider the issues around his harsh
self-criticism and feelings of failure. Again tho, it would be for Lovecraft
to see if that was needed and for an honest therapist to respectfully gauge
his expectations, otherwise the only thing being created is a dependency. In
all honesty, while he might entertain discussions with someone in my
profession, I don't know that Lovecraft would ever take part in it and
indeed during such a discussion, I might suggest that therapy would prove
less helpful to HPL than for him to believe in his abilities through the
company of understanding friends
...
Quite a few writers refuse to be treated for depression in case their
creativity depends on it in some way. I'm one, in fact.
seek to romanticise the experience of being depressed. At the same time,
there’s a wealth of evidence that depression and creativity go hand in hand
for many people and as with Lovecraft, that depressive episodes may be the
compost in which their creativity grows. Is that a fair comment in your
opinion?
W. H. Pugmire, Esq.
Aug 19, 2014, 7:33:49 PM8/19/14
to
On Monday, August 18, 2014 3:07:31 AM UTC-7, bruce turlish wrote:
> Just thought I'd throw this topic out for discussion. I believe that Sprague DeCamp thought he suffered from a schizoid personality disorder. Further, I believe that HPL never really held a "real" job, which can be an indication of mental illness. On the other hand, he was married briefly, and had a rich social life via letters, though perhaps not so much in person. Additionally, he never committed suicide, unlike REH. His death of cancer in his late forties might be an indication that he neglected himself physically, since I believe his cancer was said to be treatable if caught early enough. I think the term "talented misfit" is most apt for HPL, but he may have suffered from some genuine psychiatric maladies as well. Comments?
Writing may help with depression, but what helps with the agony of dealing with editors???
> Just thought I'd throw this topic out for discussion. I believe that Sprague DeCamp thought he suffered from a schizoid personality disorder. Further, I believe that HPL never really held a "real" job, which can be an indication of mental illness. On the other hand, he was married briefly, and had a rich social life via letters, though perhaps not so much in person. Additionally, he never committed suicide, unlike REH. His death of cancer in his late forties might be an indication that he neglected himself physically, since I believe his cancer was said to be treatable if caught early enough. I think the term "talented misfit" is most apt for HPL, but he may have suffered from some genuine psychiatric maladies as well. Comments?
Ramsey Campbell
Aug 20, 2014, 7:23:49 AM8/20/14
to
On Tuesday, 19 August 2014 18:44:28 UTC+1, Arthur Bulldike wrote:
> Quite a few writers refuse to be treated for depression in case their
>
> creativity depends on it in some way. I'm one, in fact.
>
>
>
> That's a heavy price to pay for the ability to write well. I would never
>
> seek to romanticise the experience of being depressed. At the same time,
>
> there's a wealth of evidence that depression and creativity go hand in hand
>
> for many people and as with Lovecraft, that depressive episodes may be the
>
> compost in which their creativity grows. Is that a fair comment in your
>
> opinion?
Entirely fair, I'd say. I've grown used to wakening pretty well every day convinced that I'm incapable of writing and have no ideas, which acts as a spur to creating them. I believe it's now well-nigh essential to the process for me.
> Quite a few writers refuse to be treated for depression in case their
>
> creativity depends on it in some way. I'm one, in fact.
>
>
>
> That's a heavy price to pay for the ability to write well. I would never
>
> seek to romanticise the experience of being depressed. At the same time,
>
> there's a wealth of evidence that depression and creativity go hand in hand
>
> for many people and as with Lovecraft, that depressive episodes may be the
>
> compost in which their creativity grows. Is that a fair comment in your
>
> opinion?
bruce turlish
Aug 20, 2014, 7:18:04 PM8/20/14
to
Arthur Bulldike posted:
This is just curiosity on my part, but is the posting name "Arthur Bulldike" a pseudonym? If so, it suggests to me a lesbian psychologist with an interest in Lovecraft. If that speculation is correct, I would say that it is rather atypical and "cute" that you are posting here. This is not sarcasm or criticism, just my impression that professionals at your level wouldn't generally be expected to lurk here. Again, just harmless curiosity on my part.
"I'm a psychotherapist and I would agree that the psychoanalysis of Lovecraft
I've read is indeed bad speculation..."
This is just curiosity on my part, but is the posting name "Arthur Bulldike" a pseudonym? If so, it suggests to me a lesbian psychologist with an interest in Lovecraft. If that speculation is correct, I would say that it is rather atypical and "cute" that you are posting here. This is not sarcasm or criticism, just my impression that professionals at your level wouldn't generally be expected to lurk here. Again, just harmless curiosity on my part.
Arthur Bulldike
Aug 21, 2014, 7:16:38 AM8/21/14
to
"This is just curiosity on my part, but is the posting name "Arthur
Bulldike" a pseudonym? If so, it suggests to me a lesbian psychologist with
an interest in Lovecraft. If that speculation is correct, I would say that
it is rather atypical and "cute" that you are posting here. This is not
sarcasm or criticism, just my impression that professionals at your level
wouldn't generally be expected to lurk here. Again, just harmless curiosity
on my part."
Yes it is, but Arthur was a real person and it was his real name. Around 25
Bulldike" a pseudonym? If so, it suggests to me a lesbian psychologist with
an interest in Lovecraft. If that speculation is correct, I would say that
it is rather atypical and "cute" that you are posting here. This is not
sarcasm or criticism, just my impression that professionals at your level
wouldn't generally be expected to lurk here. Again, just harmless curiosity
on my part."
years ago, I was a mechanic at an English amusement park and I first read
Lovecraft during my lunch breaks. Arthur was a handyman from a nearby
village that resembles Dunwich and he was natural clown and raconteur.
Lovecraft would space me out and then Arthur would have me in hysterics with
his impressions of nightgaunts and Innsmouth natives and tales of local
inbreeding. My career in psychotherapy began when I left to work at the
local psychiatric asylum, which in light of what I've said, seems almost
pre-destined. I've lurked on this group for years, keen to hear of new
developments, while feeling unqualified to offer helpful opinions. I was so
pleased to make a contribution that I'd forgotten I'd taken Arthur's name in
vain when I set up my account, but I like the coincidence.
As for me, I'm a middle aged man with an interest in Lovecraft. While I
appreciate your kind words, I don't share the upper-middle class pedigree or
neurotic interests that stereotype my profession. I'm familiar with
classical "couch therapy", however I prefer to work with severe psychoses -
the Delapores and Olmsteads of this world - in a hospital setting.
Cosmicism is a valid field in psychoanalysis. Wilfred Bion, a giant in my
field, wrote about "O" the unknowable and ultimate truth of existence and
how men fragment their awareness of it to maintain their sanity. Bion
suggested their are amoral and irrational forces beyond our capacity to
comprehend, although psychotics and mystics are aware of their existence,
the latter being attuned, the former being overpowered. Sound familiar? :-)
Arthur Bulldike
Aug 21, 2014, 7:40:29 AM8/21/14
to
Entirely fair, I'd say. I've grown used to wakening pretty well every day
convinced that I'm incapable of writing and have no ideas, which acts as a
spur to creating them. I believe it's now well-nigh essential to the process
for me.
I grew up in a remote moorlands near a decaying city, so many thanks for
convinced that I'm incapable of writing and have no ideas, which acts as a
spur to creating them. I believe it's now well-nigh essential to the process
for me.
entertaining me with both Cold Print and The Doll Who Ate His Mother. It's
great you found a way to make it work.
Ramsey Campbell
Aug 22, 2014, 5:29:22 AM8/22/14
to
bruce turlish
Aug 22, 2014, 6:32:10 AM8/22/14
to
Arthur posted:
"Cosmicism is a valid field in psychoanalysis. Wilfred Bion, a giant in my
field, wrote about "O" the unknowable and ultimate truth of existence and
how men fragment their awareness of it to maintain their sanity. Bion
suggested their are amoral and irrational forces beyond our capacity to
comprehend, although psychotics and mystics are aware of their existence,
the latter being attuned, the former being overpowered. Sound familiar?"
Did you ever encounter any psychotics in your practice that entertained delusions and fears about "outer monstrosities" that they felt threatened them? I recall the case of George Zucco, an American actor who died in an insane asylum, in his final days insisting that the god Cthulhu was after him. I don't know how much truth is contained in this story, but it certainly sounds creepy enough. Moreover, his wife and daughter are said to have committed suicide after his death--which sounds creepier still. Of course, it's kind of creepy that you "lurked" here for years and kept silent--despite your passion for Lovecraft. Downright Lovecraftian, I should say, in its implications. Just kidding.
field, wrote about "O" the unknowable and ultimate truth of existence and
how men fragment their awareness of it to maintain their sanity. Bion
suggested their are amoral and irrational forces beyond our capacity to
comprehend, although psychotics and mystics are aware of their existence,
the latter being attuned, the former being overpowered. Sound familiar?"
Krampus
Aug 22, 2014, 9:14:25 AM8/22/14
to
bruce turlish <brtu...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:73044d7b-0b28-45f6...@googlegroups.com:
>
> Did you ever encounter any psychotics in your practice that
> entertained delusions and fears about "outer monstrosities" that they
> felt threatened them? I recall the case of George Zucco, an American
> actor who died in an insane asylum, in his final days insisting that
> the god Cthulhu was after him. I don't know how much truth is
> contained in this story, but it certainly sounds creepy enough.
> Moreover, his wife and daughter are said to have committed suicide
> after his death--which sounds creepier still. Of course, it's kind of
> creepy that you "lurked" here for years and kept silent--despite your
> passion for Lovecraft. Downright Lovecraftian, I should say, in its
> implications. Just kidding.
>
I checked Wikipedia on actor George Zucco it talks about the rumor that
he died in madhouse but, says its not true.
"Zucco died from pneumonia in an assisted-living facility in 1960 at the
age of 74. His daughter, Frances (1931-1962), died of throat cancer at
age 30, and his widow died from natural causes in 1999 (at age 99). His
grandson, George Zucco, lives in San Fernando Valley, CA"
news:73044d7b-0b28-45f6...@googlegroups.com:
>
> Did you ever encounter any psychotics in your practice that
> entertained delusions and fears about "outer monstrosities" that they
> felt threatened them? I recall the case of George Zucco, an American
> actor who died in an insane asylum, in his final days insisting that
> the god Cthulhu was after him. I don't know how much truth is
> contained in this story, but it certainly sounds creepy enough.
> Moreover, his wife and daughter are said to have committed suicide
> after his death--which sounds creepier still. Of course, it's kind of
> creepy that you "lurked" here for years and kept silent--despite your
> passion for Lovecraft. Downright Lovecraftian, I should say, in its
> implications. Just kidding.
>
he died in madhouse but, says its not true.
"Zucco died from pneumonia in an assisted-living facility in 1960 at the
age of 74. His daughter, Frances (1931-1962), died of throat cancer at
age 30, and his widow died from natural causes in 1999 (at age 99). His
grandson, George Zucco, lives in San Fernando Valley, CA"
bruce turlish
Aug 22, 2014, 3:03:24 PM8/22/14
to
Krampus posted:
"Zucco died from pneumonia in an assisted-living facility in 1960 at the
age of 74. His daughter, Frances (1931-1962), died of throat cancer at
age 30, and his widow died from natural causes in 1999 (at age 99). His
grandson, George Zucco, lives in San Fernando Valley, CA"
Thanks for the clarification. Honestly, though, that rumor about his bizarre death might very well have something to it. Yes, it might be Kenneth Anger's attempt to sell his book "Hollywood Bablyon 2," but there might be something more sinister going on. Look, we've got Pugmire with his Lovecraft monomania, Arthur B. with his tight-lipped newsgroup lurking, Ramsey with his bouts of depression that may be the source of his creativity. All that strangeness is going on right here at this newsgroup--don't you think mind-probes from Cthulhu may play a role? I just don't know...
age of 74. His daughter, Frances (1931-1962), died of throat cancer at
age 30, and his widow died from natural causes in 1999 (at age 99). His
grandson, George Zucco, lives in San Fernando Valley, CA"
Arthur Bulldike
Aug 23, 2014, 4:33:38 AM8/23/14
to
Well, thank you very much! I suppose THE FACE THAT MUST DIE was my
therapeutic novel.
Having read your introduction via Amazon, I was bound to be enticed. Fingers
therapeutic novel.
crossed I've ordered the version with the puns left in...
Arthur Bulldike
Aug 23, 2014, 5:43:01 AM8/23/14
to
"Did you ever encounter any psychotics in your practice that entertained
delusions and fears about "outer monstrosities" that they felt threatened
them? ... "
delusions and fears about "outer monstrosities" that they felt threatened
No, never had Kenneth Grant knock at the door, heheh. Seriously tho, I'm
afraid not. You get everything imaginable, but it tends to be drawn in broad
strokes. Many patients describe bizarre and frightening hallucinations
without the least suggestion of fear while some will speak of nebulous
wraiths and shadow figures that scare them witless for no real reason.
Psychosis is more emotionally invested in the message than the image.
Speaking clinically, severe forms of psychosis tend to focus around primal
collective concepts, such as God, the government, sex and the internet. Most
supernatural ideas in psychosis stem from popular religion, so here in the
U.K., anything nasty tends to have a Christian motif. I used to meet
patients who were regurgitating the Dennis Wheatley novels that seem to
breed in psychiatric hospitals, which suggests your query would be entirely
possible if Lovecraft was as popular as he is respected.
The closest thing I can offer - and I'm tight on the details because it's my
own frustrated writer's pipe-dream - is that when my old hospital was
closing down, I spent about six months as the night shift manager of an
empty asylum. Everyone else was too superstitious to touch the job, calling
up murders and spectres they'd have given the patients pills for, so I just
couldn't turn it down. Nights of miles of run down wards, basements, medical
units, mortuaries etc... in perfect silence and often via torch-light. Truth
is, it was mostly dull, so I'd entertain myself by remembering the weird
things I'd heard and scaring the crap out myself... then I'd have to move
the furniture so that the next time I came by I'd know it was me who did it.
Some of the wards were so symmetrical I could walk in and picture my
doppelganger opening the door at the far end. What I realised was that a
building of such size and reputation has a personality. Nothing supernatural
but quite distinct. The closest thing I've found in fiction is a short story
called "All Hallows" by Walter De La Mare. Well worth an hour's read.
As for George Zucco, sounds to me like he was a victim of Kenneth Anger's
high camp rather than Lovecraft's Mythos. Given the choice, I'd be a
Norwegian sailor.
"There might be something more sinister going on. Look, we've got Pugmire
with his Lovecraft monomania, Arthur B. with his tight-lipped newsgroup
lurking, Ramsey with his bouts of depression that may be the source of his
creativity. All that strangeness is going on right here at this
newsgroup--don't you think mind-probes from Cthulhu may play a role? I just
don't know..."
I'm just a friendly guy who's pleased to finally join the conversation. No
lurking, Ramsey with his bouts of depression that may be the source of his
creativity. All that strangeness is going on right here at this
newsgroup--don't you think mind-probes from Cthulhu may play a role? I just
don't know..."
way am I Nyarlathotep. ;-)
bruce turlish
Aug 25, 2014, 4:47:09 PM8/25/14
to
Arthur Bulldike posted:
"I'm just a friendly guy who's pleased to finally join the conversation. No
way am I Nyarlathotep."
And frankly, I would never have guessed that posting about Lovecraft's presumed "mental illness" would tease out the participation of a psychotherapist lurking on this newsgroup. Nice to have someone at your professional level posting here. Now, if we could only attract the attention of an astrophysicist to comment on the plausibility of Yog-Sothoth...
way am I Nyarlathotep."
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