Question: Difference between small press/fanzines/etc
Skrybe
missed or ignored. I'm curious as to what the "definition" of small press
is. For example; are fanzines/magazines like Ron Shiflets "Dark Legacy" or
"Cthulhu Cultus" considered small press? Are companys like Bereshith small
press? Is Arkham House small press?
Basically, just where is the dividing line?
--
Skrybe aka nospam.Ke...@publicworks.qld.gov.au
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Scott Wyatt
any publication released as much as the organization of the company. Most
small (or specialty) presses are the tortured work of one or two dedicated
maniacs who virtually destroy their lives and sanity to see the kind of
literature they love make it out into the cold cruel world. Donald Grant
published in excess of 35, 000 copies of one of the "Dark Tower" books by
Stephen King while Ash Tree Press has been printing 500 or less copies of
each of theirs. Fedogan & Bremer has been printing 1000 to 3500 copies of
each book, not counting limited edition copies, with Philip Rahman helped by
his partner Dennis Weiler, holding down a full time job AND putting in late
hours and weekends as a publisher. Generally the small press items have
fewer copies than a "pro" of each title, are genre specific, and the hc
books are usually physically impressive with lots of art and bells and
whistles such as signed copies-slipcases, etc. The chapbooks are less
expensive and may look it, but there is little effort by the big boys to
produce similar items and the much less expensive chapbooks have helped many
novice writers break into the open. I would consider Arkham the grandaddy of
the small presses and have been buying their books, and those of other such
publishers for over 25 years. Somtimes you gamble on a well motivated but
financially insecure publisher getting the promised book out- but I have had
very few disappointments over the years.
Scott Wyatt, whose house in Northern Minnesota is very well insulated by
thousands of books.
Skrybe wrote in message ...
Ian McDowell
<nospam.ke...@publicworks.qld.gov.au> wrote:
>I asked this question on the tale end of another thread and it either got
>missed or ignored. I'm curious as to what the "definition" of small press
>is. For example; are fanzines/magazines like Ron Shiflets "Dark Legacy" or
>"Cthulhu Cultus" considered small press? Are companys like Bereshith small
>press? Is Arkham House small press?
>
>Basically, just where is the dividing line?
I believe that Arkham House and Bereshith would be specialty press, not
small press. _Small_ press generally means 'zines; specialty press
generally means books.
Ian McDowell
jpe...@cnw.com
225.bltm.grid.net>,
ian...@mindspring.com (Ian McDowell) wrote:
> I believe that Arkham House and Bereshith would be specialty press,
not small press. _Small_ press generally means 'zines; specialty press
> generally means books.
>
> Ian McDowell
Thanks Ian, I'd second that as the dividing line has become somewhat
blurred. Arkham House editions are larger than many trade publishers as
are F & B's. Ash-Tree Press and my own imprints may issue more titles
per year than some of the big boys, though the runs are much smaller
and the quality of bookmaking is much higher. Bereshith and Night Shade
are also issuing trade hardcovers in goodly-sized print runs, and of
course Rich Chizmar at CD puts out more books than any of the mass-
market houses. As Scott said, all of these enterprises seem to share
the commonality of being run by one or two people who do what they do
because they love doing it rather than trying to pander pap to a
specific demographic.
John
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Skrybe
speciality press, etc. etc. etc. that it's pretty confusing.
--
Skrybe aka nospam.Ke...@publicworks.qld.gov.au
You know what to do with the spam...
Is it true that cannibals won't eat clowns because they taste funny?
ICQ: 30519074
Skrybe's Tales of Terror
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Overdue for an update - coming soon
Scott Wyatt wrote in message <7oj5i7$2g7a$1...@news1.spacestar.net>...
>>I asked this question on the tale end of another thread and it either got
>>missed or ignored. I'm curious as to what the "definition" of small press
>>is. For example; are fanzines/magazines like Ron Shiflets "Dark Legacy" or
>>"Cthulhu Cultus" considered small press? Are companys like Bereshith small
>>press? Is Arkham House small press?
>>
>>Basically, just where is the dividing line?
>>
>>--
>
>
>
nethe...@my-deja.com
"Skrybe" <nospam.ke...@publicworks.qld.gov.au> wrote:
got
> missed or ignored. I'm curious as to what the "definition" of small
press
> is. For example; are fanzines/magazines like Ron Shiflets "Dark
Legacy" or
> "Cthulhu Cultus" considered small press? Are companys like Bereshith
small
> press? Is Arkham House small press?
>
> Basically, just where is the dividing line?
>
> --
From the publishing world, here is your definitions:
Print Fanzine. Magazine that is focused on a genre, a character, a
mythos, whatever, very focused, very one minded for a select audience,
thus may be very opinionated. Sort of like those rags from the 70's my
sister used to read with David Cassidy in them. It is funded by someone
somewhere, usually by some type of advertising, even if its just the
stores that cater to the crowd that reads the mag.
Ezine. Electronic magazine, may or may not be a fanzine. Two examples
are Paul Berglund's Nightscapes and my own NetherReal. Takes the
fanzine one step further, focuses a tighter beam, and is usually not
directly funded. Great thing is we are full color living documents,
that is, the magazine can breathe a life of its own and grow as
required. Archiving is possible, which means you don't have to go
looking for a back issue.
Small press. These publishers are doing it all themselves. They have no
print department, copy department, editing department, advertising
department, etc.. They have themselves. Usually, at the most, a 2-3 man
operation. Cost for printing absorbed by the publisher, thus why
authors who submit material rarely receive more than about 10-20 copies
of the book and maybe a .1 of one cent a word or so, if they are lucky.
These guys believe in the work enough to publish it, and take all risks
upon themselves. Thus the limited publishing ability. All small presses
hope to become publishing houses someday (no matter what they may say).
These are some technical definintions of the words per the professional
publishing world. Hope it helps.
Jim Hawley
The NetherReal (http://www.netherreal.de)
"Pierce the Veil of Insanity..."
paghat
> Print Fanzine. Magazine that is focused on a genre, a character, a
> mythos, whatever, very focused, very one minded for a select audience,
> thus may be very opinionated. Sort of like those rags from the 70's my
> sister used to read with David Cassidy in them. It is funded by someone
> somewhere, usually by some type of advertising, even if its just the
> stores that cater to the crowd that reads the mag.
>
"Fanzine" is a term that has been in use since the 1930s, a coinage that
spread through "first fandom" of which most of the well known science
fiction writers over the age of 65 were members (actually, most over 85 or
dead). A fanzine was originally any magazine (usually mimeographed but by
whatever means was to hand) that was edited & produced by a science
fiction "fan". "Fans" established something of an international
"community" but especially a 48-states community through the long
lettercolumns in science fiction pulp magazines of the 1920s onward -- the
early fanzine contributors & the letter columns of pulp magazines
correlate closely.
These were not "fan" magazines in the sense above described by Jim, except
they tended to consist of writers who also read pulp magazines & later
mass market science fiction paperbacks, & many either did write or hoped
to write science fiction for professional publication. But the subject
matter of fanzines ranged all over the place & only occasionally were
about science fiction per se. Many of the editors & writers -- H. P.
Lovecraft a famous example -- were earlier involved with a movement that
began in the Victorian era, the "Amateur Press Associations," which still
exist & have not much changed from the 1800s -- an "apazine" being an
extremely shortrun fanzine produced for distribution between apa members
on whatever topic the editor-writer was pondering on a given day.
It was probably not until the 1960s that "fanzine" came to be used to
describe rock & roll magazines, probably first applied to CRAWDADDY when
it was still just a one-man amateur press magazine produced by a science
fiction fan cum writer & critic. Then the term transferred to any newstand
magazine about rock & roll, teen idols, or whatnot, going full circle when
applied to both amateur & newstand magazines about Star Trek. It is is no
longer just an amateur press designation & many single-topic newstand
magazines do get tagged fanzines both within their editorials & by their
readership who usually know nothing whatsoever about "fanzines" as a 65
year old phenomenon of science fiction fandom.
However, the Hugo Award for best fanzine retains the old meaning. A
fanzine is any small press magazine published by a science fiction fan, &
if you go through the winners for the last 35 years, you will find very
few with a focused content such as described above. Some have boastfully
been about everything EXCEPT science fiction despite that their
distribution tended to be restricted to s-f fans & especially that
minority of fans with some historical perspective about & at least
second-hand knowledge of their descendance from First Fandom.
Among fanzine editors & contributors the creme of the crop were the
"genzines" or fanzines with general topics ideally treated in a
Benchleyesque manner. The second level in the hierarchy were fanzines
about s/fs as a literature, mostly essays of the sort Sam Moskowitz wrote.
These were called "Sercon" fanzines, meaning "Serious & Constructive" and
the Benchleyesque was excluded. There was overlap of course; Don D'Ammassa
edited a leading genzine AND wrote sercon essays about s-f. The amateur
magazines that consisted primarily of fiction were usually regarded as
poor third-cousins to genzines & sercon fanzines; though I personally
always liked the fiction fanzines best, one has to admit they were rarely
the quality of writing found in Granfaloon, Simulacrum, Warhoon,
Mythologies, Yandro, and the whole genzine crowd whose contributors in
retrospect look pretty impressive, while the fiction fanzine contributors
with highly significant exceptions now appear to be primarily a "where are
they now" crowd.
The best writers did not often contribute to fiction fanzines, just as the
web's best writers are never to be found in fiction e-zines. The best
writers then as now sold their fiction professionally. But many wrote
whatever entertaining nonfictional nonsense came to mind for fanzines, &
the great fanzine contributors included many who also wrote fiction, i.e.,
Ted White, Walt Willis, Poul Anderson, Ray Bradbury (who published his own
fanzine as a kid), ad infinitum, & a good many who were never professional
fictioneers but were awfully good at the fanzine essay.
So the "true" fanzine editors looked down their noses at fiction fanzines,
though fiction fanzine editors often felt superior because they were
aspiring to something professional. For this reason the goofy tag
"semi-prozine" arose in 1973 among fiction fanzine editors -- I helped
promote that embarrassing term -- meaning a fanzine with a professional
wannabe personality. The term was temporarily adopted as a Hugo Category,
but was misunderstood to mean a fanzine with a large distribution & mostly
only Locus ever won it. The term seems finally to have died a deserved
death though it remains that the fiction fanzine editors dislike the term
"fanzine" & most would just call themselves small press magazines, period.
A lot of what would formerly have been fanzine activity has today
transferred to the net in the form of horror, science fiction & fantazy
e-zines, but mostly it is the lowest end that in print form used to be
called "Crudzines" with the lame opinions & lamer fiction of
never-will-bes. Good fiction continues to find print outlets. But the day
of high-end Genzine seems to be gone because printing & mailing costs are
prohibitive. In 1965 you could print & mail a 50 page fanzine in a sturdy
envelope for less than a quarter full cost ("the sticky quarter" payment
alluded to a quarter that had been scotch taped to a postcard, & which was
sufficient to cover all expenses except personal salary) so you could
reach 250 people for $65, pretty affordable even if you gave every single
copy away for free. Today the equivalent would cost more like $3.50 per
copy to produce & mail which makes the net seem awfully appealling though
I seriously doubt even so many as ten out of 800 "hits" at an ezine
location consisted of actual readers, whereas the old 300-copy fanzines
were read by at least 300 people from front to back -- 300 people who
either were or would soon be helping define what would be published
professionally, so getting a name in the fanzine world could help sell
actual books, whereas being a name in the ezine world defines you as a
slushpile reject. Hence the correlations between today's ezines & the
classic fanzines is very superficial.
I'm disappointed Jim Hawley, like so many interested parties, lack this
historical perspective on fanzines. The great influx into fandom of people
who don't know the history of fandom & fanzines began with the Trekkie
influx so that now the "fan" as First Fandom would have recognized him or
her is an extreme minority. This makes me feel like one of the last
"movements" in literature -- the phenomenon self-consciously understood by
every First Fandom participant & for a couple "gnerations" to follow at
least through the 1970s -- has not only been deluted to nothingness in the
present, but even forgotten as part of our history. Except by us whiney
old feebs lamenting the good old days of fandom, those of us who remember
when 500 nurds could form a convention & every single one of them had read
the same books & 20% were the writers themselves, compared to todays 5000
conventioneers among whom hardly any have read anything whatsoever even if
they stupidly think they can write it.
-paghat the ratgirl
who laid out her first fanzine in 1972
Skrybe
<snip>
>From the publishing world, here is your definitions:
>
>mythos, whatever, very focused, very one minded for a select audience,
>thus may be very opinionated. Sort of like those rags from the 70's my
>sister used to read with David Cassidy in them. It is funded by someone
>somewhere, usually by some type of advertising, even if its just the
>stores that cater to the crowd that reads the mag.
>
>are Paul Berglund's Nightscapes and my own NetherReal. Takes the
>fanzine one step further, focuses a tighter beam, and is usually not
>directly funded. Great thing is we are full color living documents,
>that is, the magazine can breathe a life of its own and grow as
>required. Archiving is possible, which means you don't have to go
>looking for a back issue.
>
>Small press. These publishers are doing it all themselves. They have no
>print department, copy department, editing department, advertising
>department, etc.. They have themselves. Usually, at the most, a 2-3 man
>operation. Cost for printing absorbed by the publisher, thus why
>authors who submit material rarely receive more than about 10-20 copies
>of the book and maybe a .1 of one cent a word or so, if they are lucky.
>These guys believe in the work enough to publish it, and take all risks
>upon themselves. Thus the limited publishing ability. All small presses
>hope to become publishing houses someday (no matter what they may say).
>
>These are some technical definintions of the words per the professional
>publishing world. Hope it helps.
>
>Jim Hawley
>The NetherReal (http://www.netherreal.de)
>"Pierce the Veil of Insanity..."
Another great response. Thanks Jim
BTW, great site! I've had Netherreal bookmarked for awhile now.
Skrybe
--
Skrybe aka nospam.Ke...@publicworks.qld.gov.au
You know what to do with the spam...
Is it true that cannibals won't eat clowns because they taste funny?
ICQ: 30519074
Skrybe's Tales of Terror
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~skrybe/
Overdue for an update - coming soon
paghat <paggersSP...@my-deja.com> wrote a lot of great stuff I've
snipped to save space.
Christophe Thill
>From the publishing world, here is your definitions:
>Print Fanzine. Magazine that is focused on a genre, a character, a
>mythos, whatever, very focused, very one minded for a select audience,
>thus may be very opinionated.
Well, from the "small publishing world", there would be a slightly
different definition :
If you can't afford paying your contributors, or only exceptionnally
If you get no money from your paper
If, on the contrary, you spend money (sometimes lots of) on it
Then whatever the quality of the thing, whatever the great names who
contribute, whatever the number of subscribers, however great it
looks...
Don't look any further: what you're doing IS a fanzine!
Christophe Thill - Paris, France (c_t...@worldnet.fr)
ArKa/D/ia! Homepage: http://www.worldnet.fr/~c_thill/
HP Lovecraft page: http://www.worldnet.fr/~c_thill/hpl/
"The King in Yellow": http://www.worldnet.fr/~c_thill/chambers/
DAIKAIJU! Les monstres japonais: http://www.worldnet.fr/~c_thill/kaiju/
Glenn Sasscer
>-paghat the ratgirl
> who laid out her first fanzine in 1972
So you're not just another pretty face?
Good detail in the body of that posting. Very informative.
Thank you for the lesson. You are full of surprises Ms. Paghat.
Or is it Ms. Ratgirl?
Either way, thanks.
- Glenn