Does the Matrix have Lovecraftian Elements?
James
Lovecraftian elements in it. Neo has to possess forbidden knowledge to
understand the matrix, lore which man was not meant to know as far as
the machines were concerned. Also this knowledge alters his perception
of reality peeling back the veil of his virtual world until he sees the
true nature of things. If he were a true lovecraft hero at this point he
would go insane.
Also the squids which attacked the ship and were disabled by the EMP had
tentacles and were aquatic / squid like in motion.
--
-
Jim
Felsenmeer
H. P. Lovecraft meets William Gibson...
Thee Unknown Knows
The Matrix is probably the greatest cinematic tribute to Philip K. Dick ever
filmed. It embodies all of his best known ideas and philosophies. Most all
of his writings dealt with the questioning of reality or the perception of
reality, not unlike Lovecraft, but never on a cosmic horror level. To find
a Mythos influence in the Matrix is a stretch. The terror presented in the
films are of the "man reaping what he has sown" vein, and lacks the "man vs.
the vast uncaring gulfs of space and time, and the horrors that lurk
there-in" approach that is everpresent in any good Mythos yarn. Not to
mention that (upcoming pun fully intended) neo-superheroes do not exsist in
Lovecraft's universe.
Hope that helps.
Shane Mangus
"James" <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fmsn3cBIqUn$Ew...@dunwich.demon.co.uk...
jeanannd
"Felsenmeer" <felse...@nospam.tranquility.net> wrote in message
news:1067305376.421183@cache3...
Matrix is the Demon Sultan Azathoth, the Tentacled machines the deep spawn.
--
^ ^
>"< jeanannd
/ I \ /
\ / I \/
james ambuehl
reminiscent of THE MATRIX, actually, especially the PUNKTOWN stories and
I'm guessing the upcoming novel MONSTROCITY. You can check out some of
his work here online at:
or order his books:
-- Jim
"Currently she was standing in the middle of what appeared to be his
TARDIS library. But it was a library of the evil and the arcane, where
the godless 'Necronomicon' was sandwiched between those terrible works
'Liber Inducens in Evangelium Aeternum' and 'The Black Scrolls of
Rassilon'. Where the infamous 'Book of Vile' and its Black Appendix sat
next to 'The Ambuehl Lores' and the wretched 'Insidium of Astrolabus'
.."
-- THE QUANTUM ARCHANGEL by Craig Hinton
Gregory L. Hansen
Thee Unknown Knows <thee_unknown_knows@hotmail,com> wrote:
>Jim,
>
>The Matrix is probably the greatest cinematic tribute to Philip K. Dick ever
>filmed. It embodies all of his best known ideas and philosophies. Most all
>of his writings dealt with the questioning of reality or the perception of
>reality, not unlike Lovecraft, but never on a cosmic horror level. To find
>a Mythos influence in the Matrix is a stretch. The terror presented in the
>films are of the "man reaping what he has sown" vein, and lacks the "man vs.
>the vast uncaring gulfs of space and time, and the horrors that lurk
>there-in" approach that is everpresent in any good Mythos yarn. Not to
>mention that (upcoming pun fully intended) neo-superheroes do not exsist in
>Lovecraft's universe.
But the tentacles, man... the tentacles!
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>Shane Mangus
>
>
>
>"James" <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:fmsn3cBIqUn$Ew...@dunwich.demon.co.uk...
>> Watched the Matrix last night on UK TV Ch5. I think it has some
>> Lovecraftian elements in it. Neo has to possess forbidden knowledge to
>> understand the matrix, lore which man was not meant to know as far as
>> the machines were concerned. Also this knowledge alters his perception
>> of reality peeling back the veil of his virtual world until he sees the
>> true nature of things. If he were a true lovecraft hero at this point he
>> would go insane.
>> Also the squids which attacked the ship and were disabled by the EMP had
>> tentacles and were aquatic / squid like in motion.
>>
>> --
>> -
>> Jim
>
>
--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the
truth... But let us beware of publishing our dreams before they have been
put to the proof by the waking understanding." -- Friedrich August Kekulé
Thee Unknown Knows
. I have been waiting for a decent Cthulhupunk anthology to hit the scene
for a while. If there is one that has come in under my radar please let me
know. I am sure all the RPGer's here have heard of the GURPS Cthulhupunk
sourcebook (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/CthulhuPunk/) that is
available. Not a bad read for gaming or otherwise.
Shane
"james ambuehl" <jamesa...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15830-3F9...@storefull-2297.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Lady Dagon
two years and one day ago:
==============================
http://www.google.com/groups?q=hummel+matrix+group:alt.horror.cthulhu&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=GLvFyJ.KxD%40world.std.com&rnum=1
First, consider this, which was posted earlier in this subject thread:
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of
the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live in a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in
its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the
piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying
vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we
shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light
into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
---H. P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu" (1926)
Given this statement, which is often consider the central
Lovecraftian theme, I would say THE MATRIX is a very Lovecraftian
movie.
There are a number of Virtual Reality movies which play with the
concept of what is real and what is not, but there are various other
elements in THE MATRIX which makes it Lovecraftian beyond this.
First, there is the fact the Matrix, the Artificial Intelligence which
is behind the whole fake reality can be viewed as a Great Old One.
Next, Humanity in the film has been reduced to the role of being
batteries(!), certainly a "frightful position".
You have servants of the Matrix, playing the role of cultists. You
have a character who wants to flee from the true reality of things
back into the Matrix's artificial reality. And you have the fact the
Virtual Reality of "Everyday Life" covers the true reality of a ruined
and barren Earth where, as mentioned about, Humanity has been reduced
to being used as Energizer Bunnies.
Yes at the end, the hero successes, but such a ending is present
in many filmed Lovecraftian adaptations. (HPL himself has some
similar the-hero-wins endings in his own writings, such as "The
Dunwich Horror" or "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward".) However, even
with such a ending, the unspoken but very real theme questions of THE
MAXTRIX (which seems will be answered in its sequels) is "What next?"
How are the individual members of Battery-Humanity going to react
upon learning Everyday is not Reality, but that the Ruined Earth is?
A Lovecraftian response seems to be a very likely one, with people
either going mad or denying the Ruined World and wanting to return to
the artificial Everyday, a maddness in itself.
As some of you know, I have been doing quite a bit of research in
the past year or so on Lovecraftian-related movies and television and
have uncovered quite a few. (I have about 6-inches-thick now of
photocopies of references.) A lot of this research has lead me to see
Lovecraftian-themes beyond just adpatations and mentions of Mythos
terms. Oh, not everything is Lovecraftian, true, but as with THE
MATRIX, there are more things Lovecraft than we might first think.
====================================
For your information.
-The Lady
Acorn
Lovecraft did not invent the idea of "forbidden knowledge," nor of
tentacled monsters.
spauldingae
Not to
> mention that (upcoming pun fully intended) neo-superheroes do not exsist
in
> Lovecraft's universe.
Except for Randolph Carter.
spauldingae
"Acorn" <ayc...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:1ecb98f4.03102...@posting.google.com...
Of course an ancient, extratesrial intelliegence that threatens to drive
mankind insane would say that. :)
Franklin Hummel
No, but he used them as part of his writings and such things are part of
what has come to be called the Mythos.
Lovecraft in his early writings imitated both Poe and Dunsany. Are we to
say that THE DREAM-QUEST OF UNKNOWN KADATH is *not* Lovecraftian because it
imitated Dunsany?
With movies, the film THE MAZE was done as a Poe homage, yet it is also very
Lovecraftian -- because HPL used many of the same themes as Poe.
And as was just posted on this thread from a message I wrote two years ago,
the central theme of THE MATRIX is very Lovecraftian, *the* central
Lovecraft theme, as are many of its elements.
-- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts
Acorn
> > tentacled monsters.
>
>
> No, but he used them as part of his writings and such things are part of
> what has come to be called the Mythos.
>
> Lovecraft in his early writings imitated both Poe and Dunsany. Are we to
> say that THE DREAM-QUEST OF UNKNOWN KADATH is *not* Lovecraftian because it
> imitated Dunsany?
No, but I wouldn't call Dunsany "Lovecraftian." And this is a less
than great analogy.
> With movies, the film THE MAZE was done as a Poe homage, yet it is also very
> Lovecraftian -- because HPL used many of the same themes as Poe.
Agreed. It is "Lovecraftian" in that it is reminiscent of Lovecraft.
> And as was just posted on this thread from a message I wrote two years ago,
> the central theme of THE MATRIX is very Lovecraftian, *the* central
> Lovecraft theme, as are many of its elements.
I think "The Matrix" owes FAR more to kung fu movies than to HPL. But
maybe I'm not fit to comment, as I am not a fan of "The Matrix" at
all.
However, a tentacled monster, or a moldy book of spells, or "forbidden
knowledge" alone do not inherently scream "Lovecraftian" to me. At
times, it seems like some folks think EVERYTHING is "Lovecraftian"!
Franklin Hummel
> "Franklin Hummel" <hum...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:<bnn7f3$gh9$1...@pcls4.std.com>...
> > "Acorn" <ayc...@care2.com> wrote in message
> > > Lovecraft did not invent the idea of "forbidden knowledge," nor of
> > > tentacled monsters.
> >
> > No, but he used them as part of his writings and such things are part of
> > what has come to be called the Mythos.
> >
> > Lovecraft in his early writings imitated both Poe and Dunsany. Are we
to
> > say that THE DREAM-QUEST OF UNKNOWN KADATH is *not* Lovecraftian because
it
> > imitated Dunsany?
>
> No, but I wouldn't call Dunsany "Lovecraftian." And this is a less
> than great analogy.
>
> > With movies, the film THE MAZE was done as a Poe homage, yet it is also
very
> > Lovecraftian -- because HPL used many of the same themes as Poe.
>
> Agreed. It is "Lovecraftian" in that it is reminiscent of Lovecraft.
>
> > And as was just posted on this thread from a message I wrote two years
ago,
> > the central theme of THE MATRIX is very Lovecraftian, *the* central
> > Lovecraft theme, as are many of its elements.
>
> I think "The Matrix" owes FAR more to kung fu movies than to HPL.
The list of movies, anime, and authors THE MATRIX owes various elements
to is very wide-spread. I am reading now EXPLORING THE MATRIX by
Karen Haber, a collection of articles. In one in mentions among the
literary
influences of the movie William Blake, John W. Campbell, William Gibson
(mentioned in this thread), Phillip K. Dick (also mentioned), Thomas
Pynchon,
and many others. And those are literary without mention of film
influences.
But someone posted a message in this thread I wrote 2 years ago on this
very subject and it is a lot more things than props which makes THE MATRIX
Lovecraftian.
> But maybe I'm not fit to comment, as I am not a fan of "The Matrix" at
> all. However, a tentacled monster, or a moldy book of spells, or
"forbidden
> knowledge" alone do not inherently scream "Lovecraftian" to me. At
> times, it seems like some folks think EVERYTHING is "Lovecraftian"!
Everything isn't. But the more I read of Lovecraft and the more I read
about
and see movies, I am convinced there is a lot of films people to NOT think
of
as Lovecraftian which ARE.
I am not talking about tentacles, I am talking about very basic themes and
elements
which are considered by scholars to BE Lovecraftian.
Dclizardking
>elements
>which are considered by scholars to BE Lovecraftian.
It is quite easy to draw similarities to Lovecraft from many horror and sci-fi
movies, HPL's stories included many ideas used by others before him, as well as
other ideas of his own he has passed onto those who have written since him,
thus it becomes quite easy to spot ideas that are Lovecraftian in modern horror
and sci-fi movies, many of which will also contain elements of Poe, Dunsany, MR
James, Barker, Herbert, King, etc etc. In essence horror fiction and horror
movie makers are using the same elements over and over again.
Franklin Hummel
"Dclizardking" <dcliza...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031110162007...@mb-m01.aol.com...
I agree with this. I will point out though that not everyone use ALL the
range of
horror elements. Most often, they develop a particular style based on a
number
of these elements which can then be used to refer to a particular style like
Poe
or Lovecraft or Dunsany or even King.
Given this, sometime a story or book or a film can crossover into another
writer's
group of themes, either intentional OR unintentional.
I am find a fair about of films which seem to be unintentional Lovecraftian,
but
certainly do use his central themes.
Uxor
Wonderland Gambit". Too many parallels to be otherwise.
Uxor us...@pclabstest.com
"James" <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fmsn3cBIqUn$Ew...@dunwich.demon.co.uk...
Franklin Hummel
Yes, very much so. One of the most Lovecraftian movies ever made in my opinion.
"Uxor" <us...@pclabstest.com> wrote in message news:W5idnShc3Oo...@cal.net...
> Nah, The Matrix is a ripoff of Jack Chalker's series of novels titled "The Wonderland
> Gambit". Too many parallels to be otherwise.
Ever see DARK CITY?
THE WONDERLAND GAMBIT books were long and drawn-out and often made little sense.
Generally I really like Chalker's books (he did a Mythos parody one) and I am found of
his WELL OF SOULS series, but sometimes he really needs an editor to cut down his works
by 1/2 or 2/3s. He is to SF what Stephen King is to Horror with regards to the lack of
editing.