Digital Quartz 2-3 seconds fast /week.
Keo Lee
Is this possible, since it is all digital?
I´ve measured the time against us.navy (tycho.usno.navy.mil)
and my omega smp quartz is more accurate than the casio!
(as far as I know, my omega hasn´t run fast/slow at all during
over one month checking).
Isn´t quartz digital watches 100% accurate?
rgds,
/Keo
Richard Lanham
> I have a casio g-shock, which runs too fast!
> Is this possible, since it is all digital?
> I扉e measured the time against us.navy (tycho.usno.navy.mil)
> and my omega smp quartz is more accurate than the casio!
> (as far as I know, my omega hasn愒 run fast/slow at all during
> over one month checking).
>
> Isn愒 quartz digital watches 100% accurate?
Although a few seconds a week is not toooo bad:
Several points:
1. In general, manufacturers of many electronic products, once they have things set up,
do not test every product coming down the line. They create a manufacturing process
which should almost always make a good product, and then deal with reported defects as
they occur, sometimes modifying the process to make things better.
2. Although a crystal will usually vibrate at the right frequency, I have seen unstable
crystals. These crystals were the right frequency, but were "messing up" once in a while
in the circuit.
3. Even in the simplest circuit, there are other components involved. These are either
discrete (separate) components such as a capacitor or a resistor; or they are inside an
integrated circuit. Any of these can be defective and change the frequency of the
circuit - causing a watch to run too fast or too slow.
4. If the watch is new, return it. If the watch is old, try a new battery. Or, just take
it easy and not worry about it. A few seconds fast? That's not so bad, is it?
Cheers,
Rick
Barbarossa
>I have a casio g-shock, which runs too fast! Is this possible,
>since it is all digital? I扉e measured the time against us.navy
>(tycho.usno.navy.mil) and my omega smp quartz is more accurate
>than the casio! (as far as I know, my omega hasn愒 run
>fast/slow at all during over one month checking).
>
>Isn愒 quartz digital watches 100% accurate?
Barbarossa:
With the exception of one VCR, I have never seen an electronic
watch or clock that did not run fast.
The problem, you see, is that the quartz movements have to be
_made_. There is no quartz crystal that is perfect, nor is there
one that can be made perfectly.
A quartz movement counts the electronic vibrations of the
crystal, and adds them up. It's as simple as that. If the crystal
is made within allowable tolerances, it will be reasonably
accurate.
My G-Shock runs about 500 millisecond per day fast, or about
3.5 seconds per week. Your watch is better than mine. But then
that's OK with me for forty Yankee Bucks.
There are two solutions: one is to have the watch check itself
via radio time signal, once a day. You can buy watches like this,
but one doesn't know how far they drift between midnight time
settings.
A better solution, or one in addition to any other, would be
for the watch or clock to keep an internal log of the
adjustments, and then make an internal correction to the
electronic vibration count.
That is, instead of counting, say, 6,000,000 vibrations to the
second, it would count 6,000,002 vibrations. No electronic watch
or clock that I know of has a facility for _Rate Adjustment_ like
this (unlike a mechanical clock,) but I _do_ have a small, old
application on my Mac that does just this, called 'AutoClock.' It
reports that my Mac's clock, currently, runs 1504 milliseconds
per day fast, and adjusts the clock accordingly.
Of course, now-a-days, computers are usually adjusted by
comparison with an Internet time server, but that neither makes
the clock _itself_ more accurate, nor does it work with a
wristwatch.
As for those VCRs, I understand that a second generation of
cable TV time servers will make _them_ more accurate.
--
_____________B_a_r_b_a_r_o_s_s_a____________ ;^{>
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whe...@ucsd.edu
keolee
> In article <3BA08521...@swipnet.se>, Keo Lee <ki...@swipnet.se> wrote:
>
> > I have a casio g-shock, which runs too fast!
> > Is this possible, since it is all digital?
> > I´ve measured the time against us.navy (tycho.usno.navy.mil)
> > and my omega smp quartz is more accurate than the casio!
> > (as far as I know, my omega hasn´t run fast/slow at all during
> > over one month checking).
> >
> > Isn´t quartz digital watches 100% accurate?
>
> Although a few seconds a week is not toooo bad:
>
> Several points:
>
> 1. In general, manufacturers of many electronic products, once they have things set up,
> do not test every product coming down the line. They create a manufacturing process
> which should almost always make a good product, and then deal with reported defects as
> they occur, sometimes modifying the process to make things better.
>
> 2. Although a crystal will usually vibrate at the right frequency, I have seen unstable
> crystals. These crystals were the right frequency, but were "messing up" once in a while
> in the circuit.
>
> 3. Even in the simplest circuit, there are other components involved. These are either
> discrete (separate) components such as a capacitor or a resistor; or they are inside an
> integrated circuit. Any of these can be defective and change the frequency of the
> circuit - causing a watch to run too fast or too slow.
>
> 4. If the watch is new, return it. If the watch is old, try a new battery. Or, just take
> it easy and not worry about it. A few seconds fast? That's not so bad, is it?
>
> Cheers,
> Rick
Thank´s for comments guys.
Well, it isn´t so I really care if my g-shock is accurate or so,
but I was only little surprised that a digital watch also could
be inaccurate. I always thought those digital stuff were
100% accurate.
Whole my life I´ve trusted on digital watches, and that they
were very accurate (no questions about it!)
But I´ve learned that everything (quartz, auto etc) are
accurate up to one point. Probably my g-shock needs a new
battery too!
So, the bottomline is, a digital watch isn´t necessarily more
accurate than a analog quartz?
rgds, Keo
Richard Lanham
> So, the bottomline is, a digital watch isn´t necessarily more
> accurate than a analog quartz?
If both watches are based upon a quartz circuit, either one could be more accurate.
Rick
John Rowland
news:whewitt-74F51B...@news1.ucsd.edu...
>
> A better solution, or one in addition to any other, would be
> for the watch or clock to keep an internal log of the
> adjustments, and then make an internal correction to the
> electronic vibration count.
>
> That is, instead of counting, say, 6,000,000 vibrations to the
> second, it would count 6,000,002 vibrations. No electronic watch
> or clock that I know of has a facility for _Rate Adjustment_ like
> this (unlike a mechanical clock,)
That amazes me. Every digital watch has a stopwatch with lap timer, which
most people don't really need, but the one thing that a watch really needs
is the ability to have its speed adjusted, and no watchmaker has yet figured
that out.
--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 1st Apr.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7069/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes
dAz
> I have a casio g-shock, which runs too fast!
> Is this possible, since it is all digital?
> and my omega smp quartz is more accurate than the casio!
> over one month checking).
>
> Isn愒 quartz digital watches 100% accurate?
>
>
if your casio is constant at +3 secs per week every week then your watch is very
accurate! John Harrison would be very happy if he could have got his marine
chronometers to do that instead of the +2sec per day rate he achieved.
anyway +3sec a week is a bit much, thats 0.428sec per day, it should be around
+0.1 - 0.2 seconds per day, quartz crystals are very subject to temperature,
just putting the watch on your arm, going from room to body temperature is
enough to cause the quartz occillator to lose 0.1 seconds per day.
unlike the first generation quartz watches which were fitted with a trimmer
(think of the tuning knob on your radio), quartz movements made today are
adjusted digitally.
at the cheap and medium range the quartz crystal is tested on the watch circuit
board at the factory, the rate is adjusted at the divider circuit level by
cutting one or more special tracks on the circuit board.
this cost effective and permanent, if later down the line the movement is losing
or gaining outside of what it should be doing then the circuit or the movement
needs to be replaced.
the higher grade quartz movements like what is in your Omega is also adjusted
digitally, except in this case instead of cutting tracks the adjustment is
stored in a eeprom on the circuit board.
this eeprom can be reprogrammed to adjust the rate, this can only be done by a
special (and expensive!) quartz timer like the Q-test 6000 on this page
http://www.witschi.com/index_products_en.html
there is a water tester on this page too.
anyway if you can put up with the gain rate from your watch ok, otherwise a trip
to the Casio service is needed, and just hope the next one is better.
dAz
James Lothian
>
> "Barbarossa" <whe...@ucsd.edu> wrote in message
> news:whewitt-74F51B...@news1.ucsd.edu...
> >
> > A better solution, or one in addition to any other, would be
> > for the watch or clock to keep an internal log of the
> > adjustments, and then make an internal correction to the
> > electronic vibration count.
> >
> > That is, instead of counting, say, 6,000,000 vibrations to the
> > second, it would count 6,000,002 vibrations. No electronic watch
> > or clock that I know of has a facility for _Rate Adjustment_ like
> > this (unlike a mechanical clock,)
>
> That amazes me. Every digital watch has a stopwatch with lap timer, which
> most people don't really need, but the one thing that a watch really needs
> is the ability to have its speed adjusted, and no watchmaker has yet figured
> that out.
>
> --
Most respectable quartz watches have a trimmer capacitor in the
oscillator network
that can be used to regulate the watch. Even my
nineteen-seventy-something Commodore
had one...
James
dAz
> "Barbarossa" <whe...@ucsd.edu> wrote in message
> news:whewitt-74F51B...@news1.ucsd.edu...
>
>
> That amazes me. Every digital watch has a stopwatch with lap timer, which
> most people don't really need, but the one thing that a watch really needs
> is the ability to have its speed adjusted, and no watchmaker has yet figured
> that out.
>
excuse me, we have figured it out a very very long time ago, its not my problem
if the factorys that produce the low to medium grade quartz watches dont provide
any and I mean ANY form of adjustment that can be done to the quartz crystal to
change the rate
it is not cost effective for them to do so, if the watch has faulty time keeping
then just swap the movement for a new one.
look at miyota watch movements, one of the most common movements used, the
production run for one model goes in the millions at a cost of a few cents a piece
oh and if you never heard of miyota, its Citizen watches one of the largest
single manufacturer of watches in the world
dAz
dAz
>
> Most respectable quartz watches have a trimmer capacitor in the
> oscillator network
> that can be used to regulate the watch. Even my
> nineteen-seventy-something Commodore
> had one...
>
err no, they have not been using trimmers for the last 10 years or so, too many
problems with them, the main one is the trimmer is affected by moisture which
can throw the rate way out, and you won't find them on computer motherboards
either since the rate can changed by software and checked against a ntp server
with an atomic clock.
quartz watches made today either have the rate permantly set at the factory or
they have an eeprom on the circuit which can only altered with a machine like
the Qtest 6000
dAz
Scott A. Ekleberry
service centers, but your local watch maker isn't liable to have one
soon!!!!
--
Scott A. Ekleberry
It's About Time!
A Full Service Watch Repair Shop
http://itsabouttimeonline.com
SAE...@woh.rr.com
"dAz" <da...@NOnSPAMM-zip.com.au> wrote in message
news:3BA14FBF...@NOnSPAMM-zip.com.au...
> Keo Lee wrote:
> > I have a casio g-shock, which runs too fast!
> > Is this possible, since it is all digital?
> > I´ve measured the time against us.navy (tycho.usno.navy.mil)
> > and my omega smp quartz is more accurate than the casio!
> > (as far as I know, my omega hasn´t run fast/slow at all during
> > over one month checking).
> >
> > Isn´t quartz digital watches 100% accurate?
John Rowland
> circuit board at the factory, the rate is adjusted at the divider circuit
> level by cutting one or more special tracks on the circuit board.
>
> this cost effective and permanent, if later down the line the movement is
> losing or gaining outside of what it should be doing then the circuit
> or the movement needs to be replaced.
>
> the higher grade quartz movements like what is in your Omega is also
> adjusted digitally, except in this case instead of cutting tracks
> the adjustment is stored in a eeprom on the circuit board.
>
> this eeprom can be reprogrammed to adjust the rate, this can only be done
> by a special (and expensive!) quartz timer like the Q-test 6000 on this
> page http://www.witschi.com/index_products_en.html
But why don't manufacturers allow users to control the speed by pushing
buttons? My last digital watch gained a second a day. All I wanted to do was
tell it to lose a second a day. I shouldn't have to use solder and pincers
to do that on a watch of any cost. The watch had three buttons, and that
would be sufficient, if only the software was there.
dAz
Ekleberry" <SAE...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> Yeah, that tester is like $6000US!!!! Certainly good for major watch
> company service centers, but your local watch maker isn't liable to have
> one soon!!!!
>
yep!, you would have to do a lot of battery pressure tests to cover the
cost of it, and for us one man band workshops that would take years!
dAz
Rowland" <jo...@turquoisedays.spamspam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> But why don't manufacturers allow users to control the speed by pushing
> buttons? My last digital watch gained a second a day. All I wanted to do
> was tell it to lose a second a day. I shouldn't have to use solder and
> pincers to do that on a watch of any cost. The watch had three buttons,
> and that would be sufficient, if only the software was there.
>
> --
because its hardwired into the circuit. there is no software that can be
changed, all a watch circuit consist of is an ocillator to drive the
quartz crystal, a divider to step down the 32kHz signal down to 1sec
steps or 20sec steps in the case of watches that have no seconds hand.
the motor step frequency is determined at the divider circuit level, some
tracks are cut or the eeprom is written to, thats it
if the timekeeping is outside of the tolerances then either the circuit
or the entire movement is replaced, the circuit is not adjustable at all
its not cost effective for the makers to do it, I can buy a miyota 2035
movement for $9 Aust, a multifunction digital movement would cost less
than $20.
anyway quartz watches are not really that good a timekeeper, the quartz
crystal can vary wildly due to temperature, and to aging effects
your office quartz wall clock probably keeps better time because its in
an air conditioned room and never gets knocked around.
Keo Lee
> if your casio is constant at +3 secs per week every week then your watch is very
> accurate! John Harrison would be very happy if he could have got his marine
> chronometers to do that instead of the +2sec per day rate he achieved.
This is really all new info, but it amazes me that a digital quartz can
run faster
than a well settled in automatic? :)
>
> anyway +3sec a week is a bit much, thats 0.428sec per day, it should be around
> +0.1 - 0.2 seconds per day, quartz crystals are very subject to temperature,
> just putting the watch on your arm, going from room to body temperature is
> enough to cause the quartz occillator to lose 0.1 seconds per day.
Oh, so even a "slight" temperature change could affect the accuracy?
I had no idea, but I thought like, the accuracy would only change if you
stayed at the sun/beach for several hours and then swim in the ocean
with
much lower temperature..
So, I guess all activities (barbequing, griling, reading a book in the
garden etc)
will affect the quartz crystals?
But is higher temperature better for
the accuracy, gain/lose? (not that I“m trying to be anal with a quartz
accuracy! :),
> the higher grade quartz movements like what is in your Omega is also adjusted
> digitally, except in this case instead of cutting tracks the adjustment is
> stored in a eeprom on the circuit board.
>
> this eeprom can be reprogrammed to adjust the rate, this can only be done by a
> special (and expensive!) quartz timer like the Q-test 6000 on this page
> http://www.witschi.com/index_products_en.html
>
> there is a water tester on this page too.
Thank“s for the link again.
Yes, I“ve heard of the quartz movements that could be adjusted in
service centers,
but had no clue that they would reprogramme a eprom!
So, no "trimming" of the mechanical parts are done at all?
>
> anyway if you can put up with the gain rate from your watch ok, otherwise a trip
> to the Casio service is needed, and just hope the next one is better.
>
> dAz
I can live with it! ;)
Is it so, that a more expensive quartz movement stands against
temperature changes better
than a cheaper one?
rgds,
Keo
Jim Wayda
barometer, and compass. It is consistently accurate to 1 second per month. I
wonder if the oscillator is temperature compensated?
It is much more accurate than my Breitling Aerospace.
-jim
"Keo Lee" <ki...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:3BA1A4EA...@swipnet.se...
> the accuracy, gain/lose? (not that I惴 trying to be anal with a quartz
> accuracy! :),
>
>
>
> > the higher grade quartz movements like what is in your Omega is also
adjusted
> > digitally, except in this case instead of cutting tracks the adjustment
is
> > stored in a eeprom on the circuit board.
> >
> > this eeprom can be reprogrammed to adjust the rate, this can only be
done by a
> > special (and expensive!) quartz timer like the Q-test 6000 on this page
> > http://www.witschi.com/index_products_en.html
> >
> > there is a water tester on this page too.
>
>
> Thank愀 for the link again.
> Yes, I扉e heard of the quartz movements that could be adjusted in
dAz
wrote:
>
>
> This is really all new info, but it amazes me that a digital quartz can
> run faster
> than a well settled in automatic? :)
fast, slow, makes no differance, what counts is the consistancy, a cheap
$50 quartz watch can keep better time than a Rolex chronometer which cost
many thousands of dollars.
but that chronometer will be consistant, if say it gained 2 secs per day,
then it will gain 2 sec per day, regardless if its hot or cold, on the
wrist or off etc.
in comparison the quartz timekeeping will be all over the place, but!
because the variations are only 0.1 to 0.2 per day the quartz watch should
be able to do better than a minute a year, or in the temperature
compensation that longines used something like 8 seconds a year!
but if I was going on a trip to the amazon or the South Pole I would take the Rolex,
it doesn't need a battery, it will go a few years beween servicing, and
in really cold enviroments the quartz can stop because the battery has
dropped below its operating temperature, the Rolex won't.
>
>
> Oh, so even a "slight" temperature change could affect the accuracy? I
> had no idea, but I thought like, the accuracy would only change if you
> stayed at the sun/beach for several hours and then swim in the ocean
> with
> much lower temperature..
> So, I guess all activities (barbequing, griling, reading a book in the
> garden etc)
> will affect the quartz crystals?
> But is higher temperature better for
> the accuracy, gain/lose? (not that I惴 trying to be anal with a quartz
> accuracy! :),
I forget the exact figures but just warming the watch up to body
temperature 32C from a room temp of 20C is enough for the watch to lose
0.1secs per day, if you keep the watch on the wrist it will keep better
time because the temperature is consistant.
with the cheap watches the rate is set to an average at the factory, your
omega can be regulated, say it gained 15secs over a month, take it to
Omega, tell them how much it gained/lost over this many days, they can
then work out the daily rate and adjust watch to compensate, however give
that watch to someone else to wear over a month and you may find they get
completely different results to you.
>
>
> Yes, I扉e heard of the quartz movements that could be adjusted in
> service centers,
> but had no clue that they would reprogramme a eprom! So, no "trimming"
> of the mechanical parts are done at all?
yes all digital.
>
>
>
> I can live with it! ;)
> Is it so, that a more expensive quartz movement stands against
> temperature changes better
> than a cheaper one?
>
not for temperature so much in that the watch can be customized to suit
and the amount of adjustment is much finer than the non adjustable type
Keo Lee
self-regulating systems. However, i don´t know if Breitling
or Omega have these in their quartzes..
/Keo
Keo Lee
>
> but that chronometer will be consistant, if say it gained 2 secs per day,
> then it will gain 2 sec per day, regardless if its hot or cold, on the
> wrist or off etc.
>
> in comparison the quartz timekeeping will be all over the place, but!
> because the variations are only 0.1 to 0.2 per day the quartz watch should
> be able to do better than a minute a year, or in the temperature
> compensation that longines used something like 8 seconds a year!
I still can愒 really believe that my watch is accurate + - 0.1 seconds
/month!
If this is consistent, my watch will only loose one or gain one second
per year!
I must be a very lucky guy... ;)
>
> but if I was going on a trip to the amazon or the South Pole I would take the Rolex,
> it doesn't need a battery, it will go a few years beween servicing, and
> in really cold enviroments the quartz can stop because the battery has
> dropped below its operating temperature, the Rolex won't.
But an automatic will also stop when subjected to low temperatures..?
Sure, an auto is more reliable (for those enjoying monthly expeditions),
but
most of us people don愒 need to be anxious about a sudden battery-end
symtoms.
So, if I were to choose an automatic, the only reason would be the
"spiritual" feeling
of all mechanic parts rather than fears for a battery ending problems of
a quartz.
I know, this is little off-topic (pro愀 and cons of quartz/auto) but
an automatic seems more fragile, and will be subjected to more potential
damages in the desert,
southpole, etc than the quartz. (quartz on the other hand, won愒
probably run at
all in these temperature abuses..)
>
> I forget the exact figures but just warming the watch up to body
> temperature 32C from a room temp of 20C is enough for the watch to lose
> 0.1secs per day, if you keep the watch on the wrist it will keep better
> time because the temperature is consistant.
>
In such matter, an automatic would be more consistent and "accurate".
Are there other factors which can affect the accuracy of a quartz?
e.g. --> knocks, other physical stress?
> with the cheap watches the rate is set to an average at the factory, your
> omega can be regulated, say it gained 15secs over a month, take it to
> Omega, tell them how much it gained/lost over this many days, they can
> then work out the daily rate and adjust watch to compensate, however give
> that watch to someone else to wear over a month and you may find they get
> completely different results to you.
> >
> >
Okay, I must admit I惴 being little anal since I must be the only person
on earth who sync愀 a quartz watch against an atomic clock, and checks
the
accuracy almost everyday!!
But I like accuracy, and if my watch would gain or loose 15 seconds per
month...
I悲 be quite disappointed. Then I惻l go for an automatic!
Btw, is gaining seconds better than losing when it comes to quartz? i扉e
heard
gaining seconds is far better for an automatic, and wonder if same can
be applied
to quartzes.
rgds, Keo
A
But not in all models.
That's why you seen adverts for the VHP watches by Longines. Omega do
not bring attention to the fact they use the same.. Other brands too.
Nowadays we speak of 12s/year (1s/month), in use.
There are many ways of regulating a quartz watch, but most out of the
range of the, and I really dont want to imply any disrespect, 'ordinary'
watchmaker. Its just not worth the time, bother and expense (he probably
wouldn't be appreciated for his trouble anyway).
Timesetters
keolee
> Indeed they do, and have done since the late 80's (I'm wearing one now).
> But not in all models.
>
> That's why you seen adverts for the VHP watches by Longines. Omega do
> not bring attention to the fact they use the same.. Other brands too.
> Nowadays we speak of 12s/year (1s/month), in use.
>
> There are many ways of regulating a quartz watch, but most out of the
> range of the, and I really dont want to imply any disrespect, 'ordinary'
> watchmaker. Its just not worth the time, bother and expense (he probably
> wouldn't be appreciated for his trouble anyway).
Yeah, the service people would probably laugh at anyone who came in to
regulate their quartz watches which runs 0.5 seconds/day..!
Since most expensive quartzes aren´t cosc certified, there are really no
upper limit where you could say : "whoa, my watch is outta line here!"
But if a quartz runs 2 seconds /day fast, I´d be concerned..and send it for
regulation.
/Keo
keolee
>
>
> anyway quartz watches are not really that good a timekeeper, the quartz
> crystal can vary wildly due to temperature, and to aging effects
>
> your office quartz wall clock probably keeps better time because its in
> an air conditioned room and never gets knocked around.
Some very very cheap quartz watch (alarm clock) runs very accurate,
less than 0.5 seconds/day. Other watch (alarm clock) I have, runs almost 10
minutes too fast per week!
So there are vast varieties within quartzes...
/Keo
M.C. van den Bovenkamp
Jim Wayda wrote:
> I have the latest model Casio Pathfinder that has altitude, temperature,
> barometer, and compass. It is consistently accurate to 1 second per month. I
> wonder if the oscillator is temperature compensated?
Either that, or it's luck of the draw... My Pulsar PSR-10 (which is
temperature-compensated) is about as good or very slightly better.
Regards,
Marco.
dAz
wrote:
> Other watch (alarm clock) I have, runs almost 10
> minutes too fast per week!
this a quartz clock or mechanical?, if its a quartz it should not vary
more than 10secs a day!, not +85secs, there is something wrong with it,
throw it away and get a new one ;-)
dAz
wrote:
>
> Yeah, the service people would probably laugh at anyone who came in to
> regulate their quartz watches which runs 0.5 seconds/day..!
you are not wrong there!
>
> But if a quartz runs 2 seconds /day fast, I悲 be concerned..and send it
> for regulation.
>
with your Omega you could, with standard quartz watches no.
with the movements that have no seconds hand, the motor is pulsed every
20 seconds because its one way of saving battery power.
if that was gaining 2 secs per day how long will it take you to notice??
dAz
dAz
wrote:
>
> I still can愒 really believe that my watch is accurate + - 0.1 seconds
> /month!
> If this is consistent, my watch will only loose one or gain one second
> per year!
you wish! ;-), with an uncompensated crystal you should expect the watch
to do better than a minute a year, thats around 0.2sec error per day, you have to
add you wearing the watch, the daily knocks it gets, the temperature its
is exposed to and so on.
>
> But an automatic will also stop when subjected to low temperatures..?
> Sure, an auto is more reliable (for those enjoying monthly expeditions),
no I have stuck autos in a freezer and they still work, there are special
low temperature oils that can be used in a watch if its known that the
watch is going to be used in a frozen enviroment.
the quartz watch will have problems because of the battery, stick one in
a freezer and the watch will stop because the battery will stop working
once its below its operating temp, warm it up and it will work again
> I know, this is little off-topic (pro愀 and cons of quartz/auto) but an
> automatic seems more fragile, and will be subjected to more potential
> damages in the desert,
> southpole, etc than the quartz. (quartz on the other hand, won愒
> probably run at
> all in these temperature abuses..)
actually if you were to drop a quartz watch onto a hard surface it is
possiable to break the quartz crystal, I do get the odd watch in that
looks fine but the circuit appears dead, no battery leakage or foul
play, just dead, I use a quartz test pencil on the terminals of the
crystal in the movement and the watch will start to run.
I used a sound pickup that I use for listening to mechanical watches, put
the dead crystal in the pickup and give a shake, you can hear the
tinkling of the broken crystal inside its vacuum tube.
>
>
>
>> I forget the exact figures but just warming the watch up to body
>> temperature 32C from a room temp of 20C is enough for the watch to
>> lose 0.1secs per day, if you keep the watch on the wrist it will keep
>> better time because the temperature is consistant.
>>
>
> In such matter, an automatic would be more consistent and "accurate".
> Are there other factors which can affect the accuracy of a quartz? e.g.
> --> knocks, other physical stress?
the quartz watch will keep better time than a mechanical watch, even a
chronometer.
to get a chronometer rating it has to vary no more than 2 second per day
in six positions, and when subjected to hot and cold conditions, a quartz
watch even a cheap one can easily beat this.
anyway its all to do with personal preferance, IF I was going on a trek
for 2 years I would use a automatic, I might be in a place where the
battery might not be available and so on.
> I悲 be quite disappointed. Then I惻l go for an automatic! Btw, is
> gaining seconds better than losing when it comes to quartz? i扉e heard
> gaining seconds is far better for an automatic, and wonder if same can
> be applied
> to quartzes.
normally a watch is set to a slight gain rate to compensate, if I service
a standard normal automatic, I would set it to a 10sec per day gain
rate, I will then tell the customer to bring it back after a week or two
if the watch is losing or gaining more than they like, if say they brought
it back and told me it gained 30 secs in a week, thats a bit over 4secs
per day, so I will trim the rate back by 4 secs an leave it at that.
thing is if I did 50 automatics I might get 1 back to regulate.
with quartz watches I find that they more accurate than most people need
or care about, I can do about 50 watches a week in a full services,
battery change overs, etc, etc. if a quartz watch is not keeping time it
gets a service or a new movement swap.
out of all those quartz watches I have done over the years I have yet to
be asked to regulate one.
keolee
>
> this a quartz clock or mechanical?, if its a quartz it should not vary
> more than 10secs a day!, not +85secs, there is something wrong with it,
> throw it away and get a new one ;-)
It´s a quartz with mechanical movement.
Yea, it´s a "no-name" quartz for promotion purposes only and
one thing I´ve noticed is that when I put this alarm clock in a different
position, it only runs fast 4-5 seconds a day! So,
different positions affect quartzes.??? Can´t hardly believe it, but it´s a
true observation.
Yup, I´ll probably throw it away when the battery is finished. :)
rgds,
Keo
keolee
I悲 say I悲 notice it within a day, since (being little anal) I check
the accuracy against atomic clock on internet several times a week, just
to see how fantastic movement I possess! ;-)
/koe
keolee
>
>
> you wish! ;-), with an uncompensated crystal you should expect the watch
> to do better than a minute a year, thats around 0.2sec error per day, you have to
> add you wearing the watch, the daily knocks it gets, the temperature its
> is exposed to and so on.
Yea, I´m being too optimistic..! But I´ll inform you next year, whether it has gained
1 sec or not. (ha ha)
Oh, so even knocks will affect a quartz? (a non-destructive knock, that is..)
I´m not sure if seamaster quartz has any compensating feature.
>
>
> no I have stuck autos in a freezer and they still work, there are special
> low temperature oils that can be used in a watch if its known that the
> watch is going to be used in a frozen enviroment.
That is fantastic. That explains all the expeditions done with e.g. Rolex explorer.
How about heat?
I read a post on www.timezone.com, where a guy did some "severe" tests, including
washing machine, hairdryer , 3 floor drop etc exposing several watches
I think only panerai and Breitling were the only watches that survivded this
treatment. (sick guy, but interesting). Most of the watches failed when subjected to
30 minutes blow with a hairdryer..!!
>
>
> the quartz watch will have problems because of the battery, stick one in
> a freezer and the watch will stop because the battery will stop working
> once its below its operating temp, warm it up and it will work again
Is it so, that a watch must reach that critical temperature in order to malfunction?
>
>
> actually if you were to drop a quartz watch onto a hard surface it is
> possiable to break the quartz crystal, I do get the odd watch in that
> looks fine but the circuit appears dead, no battery leakage or foul
> play, just dead, I use a quartz test pencil on the terminals of the
> crystal in the movement and the watch will start to run.
>
So, when a quartz is subjected to "abuse" , it is most likely the crystal that´ll
break? No movements etc that are on stake?
>
>
> anyway its all to do with personal preferance, IF I was going on a trek
> for 2 years I would use a automatic, I might be in a place where the
> battery might not be available and so on.
You´re right. I´ve heard some stories where the quartz owners didn´t get any
second hand warning prior to battery ending..
>
>
> normally a watch is set to a slight gain rate to compensate, if I service
> a standard normal automatic, I would set it to a 10sec per day gain
> rate, I will then tell the customer to bring it back after a week or two
> if the watch is losing or gaining more than they like, if say they brought
> it back and told me it gained 30 secs in a week, thats a bit over 4secs
> per day, so I will trim the rate back by 4 secs an leave it at that.
>
> thing is if I did 50 automatics I might get 1 back to regulate.
Yea, but those who own auto´s seem to be happy even though their watches runs
fast/slow. It must be "something" inside that attracts them, rather than accuracy
right?
>
>
> with quartz watches I find that they more accurate than most people need
> or care about, I can do about 50 watches a week in a full services,
> battery change overs, etc, etc. if a quartz watch is not keeping time it
> gets a service or a new movement swap.
>
> out of all those quartz watches I have done over the years I have yet to
> be asked to regulate one.
I´ve never thought about accuracy with my other quartz watches (citizen, certina,
casio etc) but since this is my first expensive watch, I´ve become too anal. Yea, I
admit it! :)
rgds, Keo
Scott A. Ekleberry
get another one! Quartz watches are usually not even worth fixing, and
anyone who would spend over $200 for any of them is nuts. The one exception
may be the Citizen Eco-Drive line, but I'm not even sure about that.. Most
of the quartz watches are just cheap gold plated cases with a basically a
hunk of plastic and a few circuits inside, and NOBODY likes to work on them.
If you have nothing better to do but sit around worrying if your watch is .2
seconds fast/slow a day you need help, or a hobby! Now PLEASE, let this
thread die!
--
Scott A. Ekleberry
It's About Time!
A Full Service Watch Repair Shop
http://itsabouttimeonline.com
SAE...@woh.rr.com
"keolee" <keo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BA4CA2C...@hotmail.com...
> dAz wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > you wish! ;-), with an uncompensated crystal you should expect the watch
> > to do better than a minute a year, thats around 0.2sec error per day,
you have to
> > add you wearing the watch, the daily knocks it gets, the temperature its
> > is exposed to and so on.
>
> Yea, I惴 being too optimistic..! But I惻l inform you next year, whether it
has gained
> 1 sec or not. (ha ha)
> Oh, so even knocks will affect a quartz? (a non-destructive knock, that
is..)
> I惴 not sure if seamaster quartz has any compensating feature.
that惻l
> break? No movements etc that are on stake?
>
>
> >
> >
> > anyway its all to do with personal preferance, IF I was going on a trek
> > for 2 years I would use a automatic, I might be in a place where the
> > battery might not be available and so on.
>
> You愉e right. I扉e heard some stories where the quartz owners didn愒 get
any
> second hand warning prior to battery ending..
>
>
> >
> >
> > normally a watch is set to a slight gain rate to compensate, if I
service
> > a standard normal automatic, I would set it to a 10sec per day gain
> > rate, I will then tell the customer to bring it back after a week or two
> > if the watch is losing or gaining more than they like, if say they
brought
> > it back and told me it gained 30 secs in a week, thats a bit over 4secs
> > per day, so I will trim the rate back by 4 secs an leave it at that.
> >
> > thing is if I did 50 automatics I might get 1 back to regulate.
>
> Yea, but those who own auto愀 seem to be happy even though their watches
runs
> fast/slow. It must be "something" inside that attracts them, rather than
accuracy
> right?
>
>
> >
> >
> > with quartz watches I find that they more accurate than most people need
> > or care about, I can do about 50 watches a week in a full services,
> > battery change overs, etc, etc. if a quartz watch is not keeping time it
> > gets a service or a new movement swap.
> >
> > out of all those quartz watches I have done over the years I have yet to
> > be asked to regulate one.
>
> I扉e never thought about accuracy with my other quartz watches (citizen,
certina,
> casio etc) but since this is my first expensive watch, I扉e become too
keolee
> Yes you are anal. If you don't like the watch, go to Wal-Mart, spend $20 and
> get another one! Quartz watches are usually not even worth fixing, and
> anyone who would spend over $200 for any of them is nuts.
I don愒 follow you, but there are several *very* expensive quartz watches
made by patek, rolex etc etc. Where did you get the idea that all quartz watches
over 200$ suck?
Besides, I like my watch and was just curious about different quartz movements
that appear to run too fast or too slow, reminding me of those symtoms
connected to chronometers.
> The one exception
> may be the Citizen Eco-Drive line, but I'm not even sure about that.. Most
> of the quartz watches are just cheap gold plated cases with a basically a
> hunk of plastic and a few circuits inside, and NOBODY likes to work on them.
Well, I wasn愒 really talking about cheap 20 bucks quartzes, was I?
>
> If you have nothing better to do but sit around worrying if your watch is .2
> seconds fast/slow a day you need help, or a hobby! Now PLEASE, let this
> thread die!
>
I am not worried about my watch. I was just surprised that even a quartz watch
could run so inaccurate. And I was only expressing some wonders about my watch,
which seems to be very accurate. I do have several hobbies, scubadiving etc etc
and one of my new "amature" hobby is watches/horology. As a newbee, I may ask
very stupid questions, which I am not aware about.
And if you feel offended or bored with my posts -----> just ignore them.
Even you, Scott, must扉e been a newbee and "anal" once upon a time...?
cheers,
Keo
Scott A. Ekleberry
at all. As far as I'm concerned they are over-priced junk. My point here
being that a $20 quartz watch will keep just about as good if not better
time than your "Rolex" quartz. Like I said, if you don't have anything
better to do than split hairs over this thing and the water resistant thing
then you need a hobby. Your 2 threads are taking up over half my screen!
--
Scott A. Ekleberry
It's About Time!
A Full Service Watch Repair Shop
http://itsabouttimeonline.com
SAE...@woh.rr.com
"keolee" <keo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BA51F0C...@hotmail.com...
The Baron@flash.net
Perhaps a different meaning might be interpreted here. I had a good
friend buy a ''name brand'' quartz watch. It was a name associated with
jewelry or a department store, I can't exactly remember. She paid over
$300 for because of it's name and ''style'', I believe it actually had some
gold in the case as well.
She had it over a year and it quit working. The store would have it
repaired for her for more than a new watch, that's when she brought it to
me. I replaced the quartz mechanism with an exact movement, cost to me
about $6.00. I never told her and she is/was happy.
Most quartz watch movements sell for less than $10, regardless of
brand and most batteries 50 cents or less. Needless to say I do not have a
very high opinion of quartz watches either, especially if they cost over
$200. Of course you are buying ''style'' and there is no real definition
of taste, to each his own.
"keolee" <keo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BA51F0C...@hotmail.com...
Chuck Harris
time on your wrist, get one of the "radio controlled" quartz watches such as is made by
Jungens. They will hold an accuracy of 1 or 2 seconds in 10E12 seconds. That is a couple
of seconds in a billion years.
-Chuck
-----
Chuck Harris - WA3UQV
cfha...@erols.com
"Scott A. Ekleberry" wrote:
> Not over just $20, ANY quartz watch. There is no workmanship in these things
> at all. As far as I'm concerned they are over-priced junk. My point here
> being that a $20 quartz watch will keep just about as good if not better
> time than your "Rolex" quartz. Like I said, if you don't have anything
> better to do than split hairs over this thing and the water resistant thing
> then you need a hobby. Your 2 threads are taking up over half my screen!
>
> --
>
> Scott A. Ekleberry
> It's About Time!
> A Full Service Watch Repair Shop
> http://itsabouttimeonline.com
> SAE...@woh.rr.com
>
> "keolee" <keo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3BA51F0C...@hotmail.com...
> > "Scott A. Ekleberry" wrote:
> >
> > > Yes you are anal. If you don't like the watch, go to Wal-Mart, spend $20
> and
> > > get another one! Quartz watches are usually not even worth fixing, and
> > > anyone who would spend over $200 for any of them is nuts.
> >
> watches
> > over 200$ suck?
> > Besides, I like my watch and was just curious about different quartz
> movements
> > that appear to run too fast or too slow, reminding me of those symtoms
> > connected to chronometers.
> >
> >
> > > The one exception
> > > may be the Citizen Eco-Drive line, but I'm not even sure about that..
> Most
> > > of the quartz watches are just cheap gold plated cases with a basically
> a
> > > hunk of plastic and a few circuits inside, and NOBODY likes to work on
> them.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > If you have nothing better to do but sit around worrying if your watch
> is .2
> > > seconds fast/slow a day you need help, or a hobby! Now PLEASE, let this
> > > thread die!
> > >
> >
> > I am not worried about my watch. I was just surprised that even a quartz
> watch
> > could run so inaccurate. And I was only expressing some wonders about my
> watch,
> > which seems to be very accurate. I do have several hobbies, scubadiving
> etc etc
> > and one of my new "amature" hobby is watches/horology. As a newbee, I may
> ask
> > very stupid questions, which I am not aware about.
> > And if you feel offended or bored with my posts -----> just ignore them.
> >
> >
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Keo
> >
> >
> >
dAz
wrote:
quartz is not affected by posistion, when you say a different posistion,
what do you mean?, a different spot on the table, or are you putting the
clock with the dialup or dialdown posistion.
if you have put it in the dialup posistion and it runs better, is the
sweep secs hand rubbing on the glass? thats assuming it has a seconds
hand.
dAz
dAz
Ekleberry" <SAE...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> Not over just $20, ANY quartz watch. There is no workmanship in these
> things at all. As far as I'm concerned they are over-priced junk. My
> point here being that a $20 quartz watch will keep just about as good if
> not better time than your "Rolex" quartz. Like I said, if you don't have
> anything better to do than split hairs over this thing and the water
> resistant thing then you need a hobby. Your 2 threads are taking up over
> half my screen!
sorry! I am going to shutup now ;-)
dAz
dAz
Ba...@flash.net" <theb...@flash.net> wrote:
> Keo,
> Perhaps a different meaning might be interpreted here. I had a
> good
> friend buy a ''name brand'' quartz watch. It was a name associated
> with jewelry or a department store, I can't exactly remember. She paid
> over $300 for because of it's name and ''style'', I believe it actually
> had some gold in the case as well.
> She had it over a year and it quit working. The store would have
> it
> repaired for her for more than a new watch, that's when she brought it
> to me. I replaced the quartz mechanism with an exact movement, cost to
> me about $6.00. I never told her and she is/was happy.
> Most quartz watch movements sell for less than $10, regardless of
> brand and most batteries 50 cents or less. Needless to say I do not
> have a very high opinion of quartz watches either, especially if they
> cost over $200. Of course you are buying ''style'' and there is no
> real definition of taste, to each his own.
>
I repaired a friends Tag Heuer titanium cased sports watch last year, he
got water in it in spite of it being a 20atm case, anyway the tag agent
quoted about $300+ to repair, not too bad on a $1500 watch, thing is it
was given to him by an ex girlfriend and he did not want to spend the
money.
anyhow I have a look at it, and quoted him $100 for a new movement and
crown(the source of the leak), why? because it used a standard eta quartz
movement that cost me $20.
this is a AUS$1500 watch with a AUS$20 movement!, hmmmm!
have a look at the SwatchGroup, look at the brands under that group, most
of the old brands don't make their own movements anymore except for some
specialized ones. they all use eta quartz now.
dAz
Keo Lee
>
> Keo,
> Perhaps a different meaning might be interpreted here. I had a good
> friend buy a ''name brand'' quartz watch. It was a name associated with
> jewelry or a department store, I can't exactly remember. She paid over
> $300 for because of it's name and ''style'', I believe it actually had some
> gold in the case as well.
> She had it over a year and it quit working. The store would have it
> repaired for her for more than a new watch, that's when she brought it to
> me. I replaced the quartz mechanism with an exact movement, cost to me
> about $6.00. I never told her and she is/was happy.
> Most quartz watch movements sell for less than $10, regardless of
> brand and most batteries 50 cents or less. Needless to say I do not have a
> very high opinion of quartz watches either, especially if they cost over
> $200. Of course you are buying ''style'' and there is no real definition
> of taste, to each his own.
>
I agree with you, I am aware of that even expensive quartzes movements
are cheap.
My cheaper watches (quartzes) have failed once or many times (date
window stuck, suddenly stop
of movt etc etc)
However, I also heard of that mechanical vs quartz movements do not
differ too much
pricewise either. Perhaps a couple of bucks. The reason (as far as I
know) the automatics
are significantly more expensive than quartzes, is that we pay for the
cosc test, which
costs abt 300$ per watch. Plus we do pay for the "romantic" history and
craftmanship of
the automatic, even though they also are massproduced.
As far as I understand, a mechanical watch does not differ more than few
dollars extra for
production, compared to quartz.
Thanks for comment.
rgds, Keo
Keo Lee
>
> I repaired a friends Tag Heuer titanium cased sports watch last year, he
> got water in it in spite of it being a 20atm case, anyway the tag agent
> quoted about $300+ to repair, not too bad on a $1500 watch, thing is it
> was given to him by an ex girlfriend and he did not want to spend the
> money.
>
My certina quartz suffered some problems, retail : $250.
The jeweller offered me a starting price at 150$ for opening the watch
only!
If I knew then, I悲 simply ask them to replace the movement... well, its
a lesson.
> this is a AUS$1500 watch with a AUS$20 movement!, hmmmm!
True or not, mechanical movements costs about the same to produce. I扉e
heard a price around 30$.
>
> have a look at the SwatchGroup, look at the brands under that group, most
> of the old brands don't make their own movements anymore except for some
> specialized ones. they all use eta quartz now.
>
> dAz
As I learn more and more about different in-house "non-in-house" etc, I
understand
that many many high-end brands use ETA movements in their watches.
If a company, wants to compete with other high-end brands, why don愒
they make all
movements by themselves?
And one other thing : Swatch is (my opinion) a kid watch, and I do not
understand
why brands like omega, longines etc are owned by them?
Did they suffer financially, so the swatchgroup had to buy them? Anyone
knows?
rgds, Keo
Keo Lee
>
> Not over just $20, ANY quartz watch. There is no workmanship in these things
> at all. As far as I'm concerned they are over-priced junk. My point here
> being that a $20 quartz watch will keep just about as good if not better
> time than your "Rolex" quartz. Like I said, if you don't have anything
> better to do than split hairs over this thing and the water resistant thing
> then you need a hobby. Your 2 threads are taking up over half my screen!
>
> --
Okay Scott, you win. I惻l stop this thread.
Workmanship or not, I wouldn愒 consider a mass produced rolex a craft of
workmanship either. if they were handmade or so, it would be different.
Mechanical watches (some of them) are overpriced "junk" also.
But not all quartz movements are the same, eta quartzes found in
expensive watches are of higher quality than a 10 buck timex.
The bottomline is, whether you buy a quartz or mechanical -
You only pay for the brand name, nothing else. Believe it or not.
cheer up.
keolee
>
>
> quartz is not affected by posistion, when you say a different posistion,
> what do you mean?, a different spot on the table, or are you putting the
> clock with the dialup or dialdown posistion.
>
> if you have put it in the dialup posistion and it runs better, is the
> sweep secs hand rubbing on the glass? thats assuming it has a seconds
> hand.
>
> dAz
Hm.. I don´t have any explanation, but it´s all true. It isn´t sweep second
hand, but if I rotate the watch 45 degrees (the front, the watch can be tipped
360 degrees) it runs more accurate.
And no, the second hand isn´t rubbing against anything.
/Keo
The Baron@flash.net
As you said there are some better movements, quartz, in higher end
watches but they are also in the low end watches as well. Of course, the
low end do not have ''style'' but are good timekeepers. As I am over 50,
''style'' is a difficult thing to sell to me but accuracy(something most of
us don't really need but are told we do)is something I do understand.
The last wristwatch that I wore was a Bulova $125, purchased in the
early 80's, a gift. It had an ETA 955124(or possibly an earlier model as I
replaced after 8 years) it held a rate of ''one second a month'', an
accomplishment I would still find difficult to believe if it had not
happened to me. I don't have a current price list but suspect this
movement is in the $20 range.
As I said, I have this ''style'' problem(and limited knowledge) and
would never consider the purchase of a Tag (or other high end timepiece) I
have no one to impress. Therefore,IMHO, high end watches ''might'' be
junk(way over priced)for their functional value.
To each his own. I fault none to purchase what they want or what looks
good to them.
"Keo Lee" <ki...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:3BA59C5F...@swipnet.se...
Keo Lee
> As I said, I have this ''style'' problem(and limited knowledge) and
> would never consider the purchase of a Tag (or other high end timepiece) I
> have no one to impress. Therefore,IMHO, high end watches ''might'' be
> junk(way over priced)for their functional value.
> To each his own. I fault none to purchase what they want or what looks
> good to them.
>
Yea, you´ve made a point. But it must be so, that all expensive watches
we buy
is not because of the movement itself (very often - mass produced, high
quality
"junk" that no one wants to admit) Why do we actually pay 1000$ and up
for
-any- timepiece, either it is quartz or mechanical? Well, it is the
brand name/history/
romantic blah blah that we pay for, not of its content.
If we were about to pay *actual* price for a watch, price would be drop
quite a bit.
Those who own patek, UN, jwc etc etc, I do understand them being proud
over "fine"
crafted timepieces. But those who misunderstood about their "mid-range"
mechanics and
promptly must give harsh critisism towards quartz owners, I find very
hard to understand.
As many "in-sight" people say, a quartz movt. is generally very
complicated, and even
more complicated than the average/cheaper mechanical watch.
But your point is right, all watches above 100-200$ are over priced.
Us who pay +1000$ do it because of something else than the accuracy and
value.
No expensive watch motivates such high price, IMHO. (e.g Rolex
increasing their
prices annually and dramatically).
Rgds, Keo
The Baron@flash.net
buying these overpriced watches so we must both be ''wrong'' about
something.
Another member of this newsgroup once said it should be called
''alt.jewelry'' and if you read enough of these topics you might agree.
"Keo Lee" <ki...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:3BA6EB70...@swipnet.se...
Keo Lee
This forum is more tech than high-end discussion.
Sorry if my posts sometimes are irrelevant.
rgds
The Baron@flash.net
will ask questions about ''What watch will look good in my sales meetings?''
and or ''Can I still wear it this summer on my European vacation in
Cannes?'' etc.etc.etc.
"Keo Lee" <ki...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:3BA75CB4...@swipnet.se...
keolee
> No, that's not what I mean. Just stick around and soon a surge of mail
> will ask questions about ''What watch will look good in my sales meetings?''
> and or ''Can I still wear it this summer on my European vacation in
> Cannes?'' etc.etc.etc.
>
>
Hm, are you being sarcastic?
/Keo
The Baron@flash.net
"keolee" <keo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BA7A11B...@hotmail.com...
Keo Lee
..just one of those misinterpretations that are common
on internet. :)
/Keo