Europe on Summer Time
the swisswatchguy
of-a-sudden, am 2:00 has become am 3:00, depriving us of one hour
sleep, which we are going to recuperate in late Autumn.
Hour about the other parts of the world?
Jack Denver
back on October 30.
"the swisswatchguy" <swissw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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the swisswatchguy
How about Canada, Mexico.
How about Brazil and the other South American States?
It would be about time that Europa, U.S.A. and all and any otherwise
concerned States would agree to synchronise the date and hour of change
both ways.
Colin
economy. Like the one we had until about 1900 or so. I am not sure what
the justification is now a-days.
"Jack Denver" <nunu...@netscape.net> wrote in message
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Barbarossa
"Colin" <C...@teleport.com> wrote:
> Which, as I understand it, is intended to assist the US's
> booming agrarian economy. Like the one we had until about
> 1900 or so. I am not sure what the justification is now
> a-days.
Ahh, actually Daylight Savings Time was first suggested by
Benjamin Franklin (of course) for French shop keepers. He said
they could save a lot of money on candles by collectively setting
their clocks ahead one hour.
[I am not certain, but this sort of presupposes that there
were regulations in France at the time setting the legal opening
and closing times for businesses.]
--
________B___a___r___b___a___r___o___s___s___a________
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whe...@ucsd.edu
Barbarossa
> > > As of today, Sunday, we have moved one hour ahead of GMT again:
> > > How about the other parts of the world?
Jack Denver wrote:
> > US clocks go forward 1 hour on April 3, a week behind the
> > EU. We both go back on October 30.
"the swisswatchguy" <swissw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Any specific reason on the week's gap?
Possibly because, as a whole, the US is farther South than
Europe, and therefore the lengthening days have less effect.
Where I live is about the same latitude as Morocco or Cairo.
In addition some states, or parts of states _do not_ switch to
DST due to their location in the _western most_ part of their
time zone (relative to the standard meridian for the zone.) The
locals there feel that DST would be superfluous.
Standard time developed from "Railroad Time;" unfortunately,
each railroad had its own standard time, which led to chaos in
scheduling.
Jim Bianchi
heard: Apparantly there are places in two states of the United States that
are only one hour apart. One state is on the Atlantic coast, the other the
Pacific. Name them and explain this.
One is located in the extreme south-eastern corner of Oregon and is
in the Mountain time zone, the other is in the north-western part of the
Florida panhandle and is in the Central time zone.
"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary, and those who don't."
Jack Denver
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/daylight1.html
and here:
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/
DST is not universally observed, nor should it be, probably, because
climate and cultural conditions and local deviation from mean solar time
vary from place to place (some places are effectively on DST all year
already due to being placed in the "wrong" time zone). I suppose it would
be harmless enough, even appropriate, to the extent that DST is observed at
all, that the changeover dates be the same everywhere - there's really no
good reason for choosing different dates , which are somewhat arbitrary
anyway and it would be less confusing if they were all the same. This is
the law in the US - you don't have to observe DST in your state at all, but
if you do, you have to use the designated changeover dates.
You'll notice the changeover dates (neither the EU nor US) are not
symmetrical in relation to sunrise/sunset times, hours of daylight or the
equinox. I don't know how they were chosen in the first place. For example
in Philadelphia, the 1st day of summer time features sunrise/sunset of
6:42AM/7:27 PM, while the last day is 7:26AM/6:02PM . We could have had the
same sunrise time as the winter changeover and a 7 PM sunset by switching to
summer time around March 6 or alternatively, to preserve the afternoon
daylight to the same extent the winter changeover would need to be as early
as Sept. 5.
Sunrise/Sunset tables here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=198&obj=sun&month=9&year=2005&day=1
All of China, BTW, observes a single time zone (GMT+8 - the correct time for
the China coast) , all year. This makes things simple but must make for
some funny sunrise sunset times for western China, which really belongs in
GMT+5. This would be equivalent to putting the entire US on Eastern Standard
Time year round. It would make it easier to schedule phone calls to your
colleagues in LA, but I'm guessing this is something you could only get away
with imposing in a Communist dictatorship.
Indeed - here are the sunrise & sunset times for Kashi (Kashgar), western
China (near Kazakhstan border) tomorrow:
Sunrise : 8:49 AM
Sunset: 9:14 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=2307
a good 3 hours behind solar time. At other times of the year, sunrise and
sunset times must be even more inconvenient for them, eg. in December
sunrise not until 10:20 AM, in July, sunset at 11:30 PM.
"the swisswatchguy" <swissw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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dAz
Sydney Australia, we just went back an hour on Sunday(yesterday) so we
gain an hour in sleep :)
Steve R.
Steve R.
"Barbarossa" <whe...@ucsd.edu> wrote in message
news:whewitt-558053...@news.isp.giganews.com...
Steverino
news:slrnd4e6vn...@bolt.sonic.net...
> Hmmm, the subject of time zones brings to mind a riddle I once
> heard: Apparantly there are places in two states of the United States that
> are only one hour apart. One state is on the Atlantic coast, the other the
> Pacific. Name them and explain this.
>
> One is located in the extreme south-eastern corner of Oregon and is
> in the Mountain time zone, the other is in the north-western part of the
> Florida panhandle and is in the Central time zone.
Algeciras, Spain to Tangier, Maroco, approx. twenty miles across the Strait,
has a two hour time difference.
--
-S-
slifkin
Israel goes forward one hour this coming Thursday/Friday at 2.00 am
slifkin
Israel goes forward one hour this coming Thursday/Friday at 2.00 am
John S.
they are on winter or standard time all year long. Indiana has it's
own crazy patchwork that allows many counties to remain on standard
time, a few to use summer time year-round and others to use the more
widely accepted DST changeover. For residents of the U.S. the decision
to use DST is a state and local municipality rights issue, so I would
not expect complete uniformity for a long time.
To me the principal modern day benefit of winter time is to allow
children to wait for the morning bus or walk to school in something
other than total darkness. There may be some energy savings by waking
up closer to sunrise, but I don't know if it is quantifiable.
Sergio Gomez
at 1PM.
From time to time, in some summers, our politicians have the
"brilliant" idea of gaining one more hour, so noon turns out to be at
2PM.
As with current time, in summer time, sunset is about 9PM. With the
change it turns out to be 10PM, which make you going to sleep much
later; and then you wake up more tired the next morning. So, I guess
that is why it is called "daylight saving time" ;).
Brilliant line of reasoning.... makes me think of dropping this post
to the trash can.... Anyhow... here we go.
Regards, Sergio.
dAz <dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau> wrote in message news:<424742b5$0$1140$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>...
c_gir...@hotmail.com
How interesting to notice that at the beginning of the Third
Millennium, governments around the world have not yet been able to
decide upon one single mutual date and hour to adjust the time, which
would make life easier to everyone, as we cannot resolve ourselves to
all go from GMT to BMT (Biel Mean Time), as discussed on another thread
here.
Here in Switzerland, most of us appreciate the extra hour evening
daylight & sun (when it shines) for all the outdoor activities, which
we usually cannot enjoy most of the year.
The Baron
daylight savings time. It was supposed to reduce fuel costs, somehow.
Perhaps with an extra hour of daylight in the evening, we were to stay
outside and use less fuel?
Daylight savings in the Winter seems more reasonable to me, than in the
Summer.
"Frank Adam" <fa...@notthis.optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:p32m411la3gvfpetn...@4ax.com...
> To appreciate daylight saving, one has to look at it from a business
> point of view. Factories, depots, service stations, etc..those which
> operate on a single or two shift basis, will all have hundreds of
> floodlights operating in th emorning and after dusk. If we add all
> that up on a realistic scale, the daylight "saving" in money(and i
> guess ecological) terms is more than substantial.
> The extra hour daylight when we get home from work is just an optional
> bonus. This wasn't invented so we can play.
Frank Adam
>> > Sydney Australia, we just went back an hour on Sunday(yesterday) so
>we
>> > gain an hour in sleep :)
>
>How interesting to notice that at the beginning of the Third
>Millennium, governments around the world have not yet been able to
>decide upon one single mutual date and hour to adjust the time, which
>would make life easier to everyone, as we cannot resolve ourselves to
>all go from GMT to BMT (Biel Mean Time), as discussed on another thread
>here.
>
>Here in Switzerland, most of us appreciate the extra hour evening
>daylight & sun (when it shines) for all the outdoor activities, which
>we usually cannot enjoy most of the year.
>
To appreciate daylight saving, one has to look at it from a business
point of view. Factories, depots, service stations, etc..those which
operate on a single or two shift basis, will all have hundreds of
floodlights operating in th emorning and after dusk. If we add all
that up on a realistic scale, the daylight "saving" in money(and i
guess ecological) terms is more than substantial.
The extra hour daylight when we get home from work is just an optional
bonus. This wasn't invented so we can play.
--
Regards, Frank
Jack Denver
daylight to save. If you continue summer time in winter, sunrise comes so
late that in the morning children have to walk to school or wait for their
school buses in the dark, which is not very safe. OTOH, in the summer,
even with daylight saving, sunrise comes as early as 5:30 AM and it would be
4:30 sunrise without it. Not many people are up at 4:30 so this extra
daylight is "wasted" and is better used in giving us an extra hour in the
evening when its useful for after work recreation, etc.
What I'd still like to know (and I haven't found the answer) is where do the
changeover dates come from? They are not symmetrical around the equinox or
sunrise/sunset times, neither the US nor the very similar EU dates ( a week
apart in spring, both the same in the fall). Anyone have any guesses?
"The Baron" <theb...@flash.net> wrote in message
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The Baron
<yoo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3gem415kshug8ivh2...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:11:41 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> <nunu...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >The problem with daylight "saving" in winter is that there isn't much
> >daylight to save. If you continue summer time in winter, sunrise comes so
> >late that in the morning children have to walk to school or wait for
their
> >school buses in the dark, which is not very safe. OTOH, in the summer,
> >even with daylight saving, sunrise comes as early as 5:30 AM and it would
be
> >4:30 sunrise without it. Not many people are up at 4:30 so this extra
> >daylight is "wasted" and is better used in giving us an extra hour in the
> >evening when its useful for after work recreation, etc.
>
>
> It depends on where you live.
Jack Denver
passes thru many of the urbanized areas of the world - NY, Beijing, Rome,
Madrid, Istanbul, Tokyo, etc. The sunrise/sunset times do vary if you are
significantly north or south of this band. Northern Europe is unusually far
north for a populated area due to Gulf Stream warming - Edinburgh is almost
as far north as Juneau, Alaska or Hudson's Bay where the polar bears roam.
<yoo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3gem415kshug8ivh2...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:11:41 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> <nunu...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>The problem with daylight "saving" in winter is that there isn't much
>>daylight to save. If you continue summer time in winter, sunrise comes so
>>late that in the morning children have to walk to school or wait for
>>their
>>school buses in the dark, which is not very safe. OTOH, in the summer,
>>even with daylight saving, sunrise comes as early as 5:30 AM and it would
>>be
>>4:30 sunrise without it. Not many people are up at 4:30 so this extra
>>daylight is "wasted" and is better used in giving us an extra hour in the
>>evening when its useful for after work recreation, etc.
>
>
Frank Adam
wrote:
Hm.. fuel costs sounds strange, but i'm sure we're overlooking
something. It would be silly to assume that daylight savings were
forced on us by some diabolical scheme which all our governments
cooked up.
>I believe this was the story that we were given, back when the US went on
>daylight savings time. It was supposed to reduce fuel costs, somehow.
>Perhaps with an extra hour of daylight in the evening, we were to stay
>outside and use less fuel?
>Daylight savings in the Winter seems more reasonable to me, than in the
>Summer.
>
>
--
Regards, Frank
The Baron
70mph. There never seems to be a clear concept, as we often seem to want
to change it.
"Frank Adam" <fa...@notthis.optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:6aom41p5qpcqi42dt...@4ax.com...
Tom Bennett
> Standard time developed from "Railroad Time;" unfortunately,
> each railroad had its own standard time, which led to chaos in
> scheduling.
In the Britain of the 1850s, areas still kept their own local solar time,
with Norwich, for example, being a few minutes ahead of London and
Plymouth being proportionately behind. It was the coming of the railways
in this country too that brought about the change to a standardised single
time for the whole country.
We've fiddled about with Summer Time over the past few years and it
remains a hot topic of debate still - Double BST (GMT +2h) was around in
WWII and was (IIRC) introduced briefly again in the 1970s. I quite liked
it. But I lived then in the north of England (55 degrees N) and it meant
it was still light enough at midnight to (say) be able to read a
newspaper. It was a few years before I discovered that, for 3 weeks or so
either side of the summer solstice, it never quite goes dark in the north
of England - on a clear night, after sunset, there's always a faint glow
in the northern sky, moving through to the NNE and growing brighter as
sunrise approaches.
In Scotland it's much more pronounced but it is completely absent here in
the south of England.
- Tom
London, UK
Jack Denver
it the fact that the energy savings (which are real enough in both cases) do
not come without tradeoffs which make them unpopular with some, or in the
case of the 55mph limit, most people (a 40 mph limit would save even more
energy and lives, but there are other important goals, such as not wasting
time, which people value more highly). Likewise year-round DST and even
double summer DST would also save energy, but people don't like it
nevertheless, so we don't do it. Polling confirms that most people like the
current DST system, with the exception of farmers - early risers who don't
like to get up in the dark. Their reason for opposition is somewhat unclear
to me, because you would think that farmers of all people are in the best
position to make their own schedule.
The spring forward/fall back system has basically been in effect in most
US localities only since the end of WWII (during the war we were on year
round summer time, also during the '73 energy crisis - this is, as you
suggest, an effective measure but is unpopular and usually can only be
sustained in a crisis (or in Russia, which is always in a crisis).
Despite earlier suggestions dating back to Franklin (it's not clear that
Franklin really meant this seriously - if you read his piece on this it
sounds more like a joke) and brief usage in WWI, the modern system dates
only to the conclusion of WWII, and the US Federal law on DST was passed
only in 1966, so it is a relatively recent custom. April was added to the
DST period only in 1986. Studies claim around a 1% savings in electricity
usage due to DST. This may not sound like much but adds up to many thousands
of barrels of oil. Basically the savings come from the fact that most
household electricity is used in between the hours of "dark" and "bedtime".
If we shorten that period, less electricity gets used.
More here:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/daylightsaving.html
And here is a web page by the author of a whole book on the subject:
http://www.seizethedaylight.com/
"The Baron" <theb...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:MfK2e.27632$hU7....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
the swisswatchguy
can always get the right time worldwide, independantly of the Summer /
Winter Time's adjustments:
http://www.fhs.ch/en/worldclock.php
By the way, the site
has a wealth of continuously updated news, information, addresses of
related companies, industries, schools, a glossary, statistics, etc.,
very interesting to consult from time to time, if you want to keep in
touch with the Swiss Watch Industry.
Enjoy!
Jack Denver
approximate due to internet propagation delays. For example on my computer
they were several seconds slow vs. a clock synched to a time server.
This site: http://nist.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java
gives UTC (as well as US time zone) time more correctly - it measures &
corrects for propagation delay so that the time given is correct to within
the stated error (usually a fraction of a second).
"the swisswatchguy" <swissw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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