How to tell if a watch is fake?
gentlewhisper
Recently I got an Airmaster from a mail order based in HK, and having
arrived a week ago, I have been wearing it everyday since, much to the
jealousy of my other watches ^^
Anyway, one guy on pmwf was mentioning that the site copies bits of
his html and stuff for his site from else where, and that did spark a
thought.. what if the site was operated by a scammer??!?
Is there any way to tell if a watch is fake? It did came with pretty
good looking Titoni boxes, and has a actual plastic warranty card in a
plastic case stamped and all good, and has a tag with its bracelet
when it came. Heck, it even works very well! But I just feel edgy
somewhat wondering if it could be a fake....
Any expert advice welcome :)
Thanks!
Matt
worry about it. Even if it is a fake, if its got an ETA movement and keeps
decent time, whats the harm in it? Titoni's aren't really expensive
watches, and also aren't watches that are copied (from what I've seen), so
you should be safe. If it were a Rolex or something, you could always take
it to an authorized dealer and have them verify it, or just get the case and
movement numbers off of it and email them (I know you can do this with
Omega, etc.). You might actually be able to do something like this with
Titoni as well. But, again, I don't think you really have anything to worry
about. Enjoy the watch, they are good lookers!
Matt
"gentlewhisper" <gentle...@mailingaddress.org> wrote in message
news:7d59d51a.04082...@posting.google.com...
Moka Java
Don't know how much of an expert I am since I've never actually seen a
Titoni watch. As Matt points out, Titoni is not a brand that is likely
to be faked. Assuming the movement is an ETA 2836-2, these can be had
retail from Otto Frei for as little as $49.95.
http://www.ofrei.com/page893.html Wholesale price has got to be even
less, maybe half of that. If your watch doesn't have a genuine ETA
movement then it's fake.
Before you run the risk of scratching the watch and breaking the seal
(letting dust and moisture in) take a close look at the dial, hands and
case details and compare it to a known genuine Titoni. If you can't
find one then look at Titoni's website or the website of a trusted
seller. Get a magnifying loupe, 3x or 4x should be fine.
Are the markings correct? I saw a fairly convincing Rolex Sub 'cept the
dial was marked GMT -- YO! No GMT hand!
Is the printing on the dial crisp? Saw a fake Omega Seamaster with a
printed paper dial.
Are the hands and applied dial markers crisp and sharp? A 10x loupe
might help here. Fake makers really skimp on these details.
Is the dial finished correctly with the proper texture and color?
Daylight or equivalent light source really helps here.
Is the case properly shaped, engraved and marked? These are details the
fake makers skimp on. The fake Seamaster had 18K makings outside the
case instead of inside but was not hallmarked.
Finally, is the seller still in business and available to answer your
questions and take your return if the watch ain't right? News travels
very fast over the Internet and sellers are very wary about their
reputations.
Richard "in the midst of a go-round with an author/Ebay seller over an
original/refinished Omega dial" F
gentlewhisper
Because I read somewhere that people even fake seikos.. so I don't
really like the idea of my rather expensive first automatic to be a
fake-o chinese watch inside.
But on the other hand.. it does look quite ok, and why would people
fake a regular watch? :)
Eric Jorgensen
gentle...@mailingaddress.org (gentlewhisper) wrote:
From an article about half russian watches on watchuseek --
Not really a fake, per se, but really makes a guy wonder. Is it supposed
to be an Orient or a Seiko 5?
I remember the website about fake seiko watches. iirc it had pictures of
a badly done 'black monster' style case with a real 7s26 movement in it. I
can see where there'd be some value in that - spend $5 on the case, $15 on
the movement, sell for $100 and undercut the competition by $70
Jack Denver
Chinese fakes of $30 Russian watches. Your best bet is always to "buy the
seller and not the watch" - that is, to deal with a reputable seller,
preferably a factory authorized dealer, and not just the cheapest auction
you can find on ebay from a fellow with zero feedback or a street vendor.
That being said, I don't think there's much of a market for Titoni fakes, so
the chances are excellent that yours is real, especially if there is an ETA
automatic movement inside. If you go to all the trouble of making a good
fake (one that is not blatantly obvious in a side by side comparison with a
real one), the cost would be not much less than a real Titoni, so there is
no profit opportunity, nor are many people clamoring for (or have even heard
of) Titonis, at least outside of Asia. Better to label it an Omega or some
other more famous make where the markup is bigger and demand is greater.
Since a bad fake (one with a $5 Chinese movement and a paper dial) costs so
little to make, there is almost no bottom to what is faked, but I assume you
have enough of an eye to spot a really bad fake - these often have blatant
flaws like misspellings, wrong fonts, misaligned markers, even quartz
movements, etc. that a moment's comparison with even a photograph will spot.
If you put them next to a real one, the differences become even more
obvious - the weight of the watch, the quality of the printing, etc. Very
few fakes will withstand having the back opened as most fakers confine their
efforts to whatever is visible from the outside. If your eye is so bad that
you can't tell a $5 watch from a $300 one, you deserve whatever you get. In
the case of something like a Rolex, the efforts on the outside are sometimes
quite elaborate, down to fake serial #'s, fake boxes, warranties, hangtags,
hologram stickers, etc. so that even experts can be fooled some of the time
on a cursory examination (athough not a detailed one) but it's one thing to
spend $300 building a fake $3000 watch or $3000 to make a $15,000 fake and
other spending $300 to build a fake $300 watch. Generally speaking, the fact
that a watch is faked a lot is a sign that it is overpriced to begin with
(overpricing means bigger opportunity for faking profits) - Rolex, with 3
fakes out there for every real Rolex, is the champion in this regard.
"gentlewhisper" <gentle...@mailingaddress.org> wrote in message
news:7d59d51a.04082...@posting.google.com...
Eric Jorgensen
"Jack Denver" <nunu...@netscape.net> wrote:
> People will fake anything where there is money to be made. There are even
> Chinese fakes of $30 Russian watches.
You tell me this *after i buy what sure looks like a Poljot "Buran"
chrono at the bay for half the usual cost! :)
(Yeah, I takes my chances)
Actually, though, I'm not sure how true this statement is. A lot of
russian watches are chinese fakes of themselves. Makers like Raketa have
been importing movements from china for years - Dolphin has been sourcing
movements from china for decades.
fwiw, regarding $5 chinese movements - I have a friend who imports
knives from china - he says that what his agent in hong kong tells him is
that even the really convincing fake rolexes are right in the $5
neighborhood as a whole watch. The movements are probably way under a
dollar. Ultimately, my friend decided to stick with the knives.
Jack Denver
call "convincing" (at least until you remove the back) had ETA movements and
were roughly the quality of a say a Titoni or a Sandoz. Since those makes
retail for around $200 - $300, I'd say the "convincing" fake Rolexes cost
somewhere in the vicinity of $100 - $150 wholesale (maybe $50 - $75 in
direct labor and materials, the rest is overhead and profit for the fake
manufacturer) - if you add up the pieces for a sapphire crystal, an ETA
movement, a case , a band, etc. you end up somewhere in that vicinity, even
at China prices. If you substitute a Miyota and a glass crystal, you end up
at say $50 wholesale, $25 direct manu. cost (equivalent to say an Invicta)
This still offers a tempting target if you can pass this off as a real
Rolex for $3000, or even if you offer it as a "replica" for $400. BTW, even
if you assume that Rolex spends twice or 4x as much making the "real" ones
(and I'm not sure that they do, given that they have a lot of their own
manufacturing capability and produce almost 1 million watches/year, while
the fakers have to buy their parts from a manufacturer at a markup and don't
have economies of scale), what does this tell you about the amount of profit
that Rolex makes on each $3000 watch?
I don't think you can make a serious facsimile of a Rolex for $5 wholesale
(meaning a manuf. cost of say $2.50). Even starting with a China movement
and mineral crystal, once you throw in a stainless steel band, dial, case,
back, crown, etc. plus assembly labor that means you have a budget of under
50 cents for each major component - with that kind of budget you can only
make the crudest fake, the kind that street vendors sell and which don't
really have any real credibility - even the most naive purchaser is probably
not fooled by them. Still, the fact that you can make something that even
somewhat resembles a real Rolex (and perhaps keeps better time if it is a
quartz fake) for $5 is a tribute to the Chinese ability to drive costs down.
"Eric Jorgensen" <al...@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:20040825103313.29ef4060@wafer...
gentlewhisper
> questions and take your return if the watch ain't right? News travels
> very fast over the Internet and sellers are very wary about their
> reputations.
>
> Richard "in the midst of a go-round with an author/Ebay seller over an
> original/refinished Omega dial" F
Yeah, he is still in business. I got it from Boris on seiko5ers.com.
However it just seems like people on PMWF and Reto seem to distrust
him a lot, so it makes me feel edgy. Anyhow he did deliver top service
though, fast emails, fast delivery.. and of course.. good price (which
in the current context did make me perk up!)
Maybe I'd get a nice scale to weigh it to see if it matches the weight
as listed on Reto's site. I can't imagine fakes would weigh the same
:)
Anyhow like an earlier poster said, if it is a fake it does look very
good indeed. Even survived an accidental *dump into washer with dirty
laundry* mistake!
gentlewhisper
(116g vs 115g)
but then again it seems like the scale is a bit cranky today, so it
might well be of the right weight too :)
Moka Java
Clay. I didn't tell you about the fake chronograph an antiques dealer
friend of mine had. Frank has a "guys" antique shop with cameras and
watches and scientific stuff. So he's got this funky, 70's looking "TV"
shaped chrono with a multicolored blue, gray, red, black and white dial.
Chrome case and a steel back but it don't work. Pushers push, stem
goes in and out and turns, but nothing. Pop off the back, a little
reluctant at first, hmm, old gasket? Clay. There was no movement, just
a lump of clay. Frank's reaction: "OH S__T!!!" He's the same guy who
had the fake Seamaster.
Richard "don't feel too bad for Frank, he just had two auctions with
Christies and one with Swan" F