Chinese automatic watches (Prague)
ClayB
these Chinese movements. I've been surprised by Chinese workmanship
before, and considering the cost of these movements if they were any
good, they could be the basis for an inexpensive line of custom
watches.
I chose the least expensive watch I could find, a "Prague", which was
selling on Overstock.com for ~ $25 US, with a stainless steel case and
band. (I figured for that amount, I couldn't lose - if the movement
was garbage I could always put a good movement into the case (with a
custom dial) - the case and band were likely worth $25).
I got the watch (in a very "showy" faux lizard case - not a good sign
IMHO). I wound it up fully, then adjusted the watch band to fit my
wrist. First impressions were pretty good - the band and case were
well finished, and hefty. When I took of the links, however, I found
the link screws covered in dirt. So much so I had a hard time taking
them out. It could have been graphite, I guess, but was so gummed up
it was worthless. Anyway, I put it on my wrist and wore it for a few
hours. It stopped. I adjusted the hands and got it running again - it
seemed the keyless works were not engaging fully when I pulled the
crown. After another few hours it stopped again. Frustrated, I opened
the watch, removed the stem, pulled the weight and dial and oiled the
movement (just the jewels and the keyless works). I then adjusted the
stem (the crown was too tight) so the keyless works would engage fully
upon pulling the crown, and put it all back together.
Impressions of the inside: The inside was clean. The parts of the
movement that could be seen through the see-through back were pretty
well finished. The rest of the movement wasn't. It wasn't terrible,
however - rather similar to older Schild or Felsa movements.
So, I've worn it for several days now. Runs perfectly, however when I
reassembled it it ran fast -- very fast (gaining about 1.5 hrs a day).
Pulled it back apart and adjusted the hairspring, and it is now running
a little fast (I'm going to let it run for a while before I adjust it
again) but not too bad.
Overall impressions: The case, hands, band, and even dial are well
manufactured. The band was obviously put together in a very dirty
environment - I would certainly want to pull it apart completely and
clean each component before selling it to a customer. The movement is
crude, but serviceable. The problem is, of course, if you're not a
watchmaker it's just not cost effective to buy a $25 watch and spend
$60 or $70 to get it running.
So, if you're looking at these watches, IMHO you'd be much better off
buying s Seiko 5 for $50 - it's a much better watch -- it runs reliably
and pretty accurately.
Clay
Jack Denver
end AS and FF (Fontainemelon) movements. Back in the day, before quartz,
this is what was in all lower priced jeweled watches (below Omega/Rolex,
etc. but above the unjeweled pin-levers). When quartz came in, this whole
category disappeared from the Swiss lineup.
Obviously you're right that it's no good if you have to spend $70 before
your $25 watch will run. But all that really needs to happen is that the
factory has to clean up its practices slightly - as you say the movements
are basically sound. Running a cleaner shop doesn't really cost much
money - it's more a psychological thing. Chinese are used to a chickens and
pigs running around the yard type environment and the idea of "hospital
clean" (even in a hospital) doesn't come naturally to them.
If it's a choice between one of these for $25 and a Seiko 5 for $50, your
right that the Seiko is a better deal for now and you'll get more long term
use. But if you look at the next step up - say the $40 Alphas, the movements
are just as mediocre but the cases, dials and bands are a level above the
Seiko. When you put on a Seiko 5 it screams "cheap watch" with folded link
bracelets etc. but the Alpha types (with expertise developed in the fake
trade) really look convincingly good. (A lot of the capital and expertise
that gave the Swiss their headstart in the modern watch industry was gained
in the late 19th century by making fake Waltham and other American pocket
watch movements, so don't underestimate this as a source). Yesterday I came
across this faker's site:
http://thunderghost.my-place.us/
and the range of watches that are being faked is breathtaking and it must
take considerable technical skill to fake so many different models in a
semi-convincing manner. (BTW, the fake Daytonas, with supposedly functioning
fake 7750 movements, are $200). Even the fakers recognize that Chinese
movements are not yet at the level of Chinese cases (note also that a lot of
Swiss watches, even fairly pricey ones, nowadays have 100% Chinese cases -
under Swiss rules they can still be called "Swiss" watches if the movements
are Swiss and they are cased up in Switz.) and the "better" line of fakes
comes with low end (ETA 2824/36) movements.
"ClayB" <cbo...@acm.org> wrote in message
news:1164179478....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
honestjohn
"ClayB" <cbo...@acm.org> wrote in message
> So, I've worn it for several days now. Runs perfectly, however when I
> reassembled it it ran fast -- very fast (gaining about 1.5 hrs a day).
Just be careful not to get any oil on the hairspring, that will make a
couple of coils stick together and run fast like you describe.
H.J.
ClayB
at the hairspring with a 10x and see if it's oily or dirty. I didn't
see anything, but I wasn't really using much magnification (about 4x).
I hate to use the ultrasonic to clean them (as it tends to eat up
poorly crafted metal), but I've got some cleaning solution that should
take care of it.
It's gained about a minute since yesterday. Once it breaks in for a
few days or weeks I'll adjust it using the electronics.
Clay
Longfellow
> Thanks John. I removed the balance before oiling, but I'll take a look
> at the hairspring with a 10x and see if it's oily or dirty. I didn't
> see anything, but I wasn't really using much magnification (about 4x).
> I hate to use the ultrasonic to clean them (as it tends to eat up
> poorly crafted metal), but I've got some cleaning solution that should
> take care of it.
This speaks to my interest expressed elsethread. What I want to know is
what sort of quality metal one finds in the Alphas. Is that metal good
enough to be ultrasonically cleaned without deterioration?
Thanks,
Longfellow
honestjohn
"Longfellow" <n...@this.address> wrote in message
> This speaks to my interest expressed elsethread. What I want to know is
> what sort of quality metal one finds in the Alphas. Is that metal good
> enough to be ultrasonically cleaned without deterioration?
>
I wouldn't hesitate to ultrasonically clean an Alpha. I think that an Alpha
is a fairly good watch.
H.J. (IMHO)
andre...@aol.com
However, in other countries it is $. So, when a cheap watch needs
servicing you take it to the watchsmith and for five to fifteen
american bucks they'll clean it and service it. In poor countires this
makes sense. You buy a cheap mechanical watch and you service it when
it stops working. You don't need to buy new batteries all the time.
I have a 3 year old Seiko Monster that I really like. However, it gains
30 seconds daily. I don't want to pay $70 to regulate and pressure test
a watch that cost me $115. But, I am going to Argentina to visit my
family for xmas. So, guess what :-)
I'll get my watch cleaned, lubed, sealed and pressure tested for
peanuts.
Andres
Jack Denver
Set up a US "service center" where all watches are mailed for service. 1x
per week a courier flies to Mumbai or Shenzen with a suitcase full of
watches and picks up the previous weeks shipment.
<andre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1164295165....@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Longfellow
Okay, thanks.
Longfellow
John S.
andre...@aol.com wrote:
> The thing about maintenance is that manual labor is $$$$$ in the US.
> However, in other countries it is $. So, when a cheap watch needs
> servicing you take it to the watchsmith and for five to fifteen
> american bucks they'll clean it and service it. In poor countires this
> makes sense.
Except that for someone living in a poor country $ is really $$$$$ when
you consider what that person may earn in a year. So the cost of
repairing a watch is not a trivial expense just because the local price
in Myanmar seems cheap to north americans.
> You buy a cheap mechanical watch and you service it when
> it stops working. You don't need to buy new batteries all the time.
Yes, that is true.
>
> I have a 3 year old Seiko Monster that I really like. However, it gains
> 30 seconds daily. I don't want to pay $70 to regulate and pressure test
> a watch that cost me $115. But, I am going to Argentina to visit my
> family for xmas. So, guess what :-)
> I'll get my watch cleaned, lubed, sealed and pressure tested for
> peanuts.
Makes sense to take advantage of the local economy if you can.
Moka Java
At the price of a new Alpha, why would you bother to service it?
R "thinking practically" TF
Longfellow
Certainly not to have it done!
If I can manage to get to the TZ watch school this winter (swamp is
rising and alligators snapping), I'll be able to learn how to take these
things apart and put them back together again. Oh, and clean and oil
them too, of course. ;)
If I can disassemble the thing, I can do some modifications to one of
them (blue the TD hands, for instance, and perhaps add some lume). If I
can reassemble it and it runs just fine, I can take a stab and adjusting
and regulating it. If I screw it up, a few bucks down the drain, get
another one and I'll have some spare parts. If the movements are the
same, that is...
Upthread there was a comment about some metals (pot metal?) not being
suitable for ultrasonic cleaning. So I asked.
Anyway, dreams are more easily fulfilled if the requirements are modest.
Like an Alpha, perhaps?
Longfellow
honestjohn
"Longfellow" <n...@this.address> wrote in message
> Upthread there was a comment about some metals (pot metal?) not being
> suitable for ultrasonic cleaning. So I asked.
>
> Anyway, dreams are more easily fulfilled if the requirements are modest.
> Like an Alpha, perhaps?
>
Don't forget the "old school" method of cleaning watch parts: Can of
lighter fluid and an old t-shirt.
Good luck with "watch school".
H.J. (Everyone goes to the school of hard knocks)
Longfellow
>
> "Longfellow" <n...@this.address> wrote in message
>
>> Upthread there was a comment about some metals (pot metal?) not being
>> suitable for ultrasonic cleaning. So I asked.
>>
>> Anyway, dreams are more easily fulfilled if the requirements are modest.
>> Like an Alpha, perhaps?
>>
> Don't forget the "old school" method of cleaning watch parts: Can of
> lighter fluid and an old t-shirt.
ROFL!!!
> Good luck with "watch school".
Thanks.
Longfellow