CLOCK PLATFORM ESCAPEMENTS: OIL OR NOT?
cjwi...@my-deja.com
platform (jeweled) escapements, e.g., Shatz Mariner?
--
Calvin
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Darryl Bryant
treat them the same as a pocket watch escapement, ie, full strip down,
dismantle the the endstones if possible, check and polish the pivots,
rebush, rejewel etc, reassemble, check endshakes, check hairspring is flat
and free from kinks and clearing the curb/regulating pins, check escapement
has correct drops and clearances and if jewelled lever the pallet jewels
are not chiped/worn, oil using a watch grade oil (syntalube),
quite simple really!
dAz
forseyfamily
Can I clean a platform escapement in the ultrasonic tank, or will that shake
out the jewel thingies? I don't know anything about watches, won't usually
touch anything that doesn't have a pendulum, but I keep getting asked to look
at those horrible little carriage clock things!
Julian
Watchmender
I have had jewels become dislodged on two occasions - both withing the
last 5 years when cleaning in my Tempo 400 machine.
However, I would not be sure if they came loose as a direct result of
Ultrasonic of if they were ready to move anyway.
SC
In article <38457A3C...@netscapeonline.co.uk>, forseyfamily
<forsey...@netscapeonline.co.uk> writes
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forseyfamily
God you lot are slow down there!
Julian
Nick Hacko wrote:
> Damn right!
> It's always amazing to see "clockmakers instructors" organizing
> "platform escapement workshop" and trying to teach poor clockers art of
> watchmaking in two hours!
> What's next? "Make your own fusee chain in 10 minutes" video?
>
> Nick
> Hacko Watchmaker, Sydney
>
> > > What is considered standard cleaning and oiling practice with clock
> > > platform (jeweled) escapements, e.g., Shatz Mariner?
>
Nick Hacko
Nick Hacko
> Can I clean a platform escapement in the ultrasonic tank...I don't know anything about watches, won't usually
> touch anything that doesn't have a pendulum, but I keep getting asked to look at those horrible little carriage clock things! Julian
Ultrasonic is great if you really want good job. Another advantage of it
is that you can clean dial, hands, case and platform escapement at the
same time without disassembling. Caution: take the repair tag off, it's
probably not solution-resistant!
For quick job just use WD40. Works great for me.
Nick
Hacko Watchmaker, Sydney
Darryl Bryant
>
> I was interested in Darryl's enquiry too.
> Can I clean a platform escapement in the ultrasonic tank, or will that shake
> touch anything that doesn't have a pendulum, but I keep getting asked to look
> at those horrible little carriage clock things!
> Julian
>
I use an ultrasonic cleaner quite a lot, but I still take things apart,
ultrasonics can shake the muck deeper into the jewel thingies (hole jewel
bearings with endstone), but unless you are capable of pulling the platform
apart and reasemble and oil it with watch grade oil, leave them alone ok
dAz
Darryl Bryant
>
> Damn right!
> It's always amazing to see "clockmakers instructors" organizing
> "platform escapement workshop" and trying to teach poor clockers art of
> watchmaking in two hours!
> What's next? "Make your own fusee chain in 10 minutes" video?
>
quite simple for me to do ;-), I have only been a watchmaker for 30 years
cheers
dAz
Darryl Bryant
>
> > Can I clean a platform escapement in the ultrasonic tank...I don't know anything about watches, won't usually
> > touch anything that doesn't have a pendulum, but I keep getting asked to look at those horrible little carriage clock things! Julian
>
> is that you can clean dial, hands, case and platform escapement at the
> same time without disassembling. Caution: take the repair tag off, it's
> probably not solution-resistant!
>
--->>>>>> For quick job just use WD40. Works great for me.<<<<<<----
I hope you had your tongue firmly in your cheek when you said that, Nick!,
I have enough to do cleaning solder, punchup marks, glue, etc, off
movements now thanks
cheers
dAz
The Baron
on an old alarm/travel/auto clock, with the balance, before you take a
platform apart. I use my ultrasonic on them but in a separate, smaller,
enclosed basket. You will need some smaller tools. There are people who
specialize in repairing platforms, they come in handy if you brake
something.
forseyfamily wrote in message <38457A3C...@netscapeonline.co.uk>...
>I was interested in Darryl's enquiry too.
>Can I clean a platform escapement in the ultrasonic tank, or will that
shake
Nick Hacko
> movements now thanks
> dAz
Don't forget my all-time favorite Rodico "case ring / movement holder ",
two cuckoo weights weld together and Oyster case with home-brew notches
made with angle grinder!
Nick
Darryl Bryant
>
>
> Don't forget my all-time favorite Rodico "case ring / movement holder ",
> two cuckoo weights weld together and Oyster case with home-brew notches
> made with angle grinder!
> Nick
how about the glue the crystal back on with superglue trick on a ladies
Seiko, don't worry about the dial and hands (hands suppose to move??!), or
the broken carving on a cuckoo clock stuck back together with plastibond,
leave the cracks wide it look more natural.
I haven't seen the angle grinder trick, but I did have a nice Seamaster in
that must have had a tight back, why else would someone use a centre punch
and a vice to get the back off?
dAz
Mark
HALF 'made' from epoxy resin then filed!!!
Mark
Darryl Bryant <da...@zip.com.au> wrote in message
news:384701A9...@zip.com.au...
Mark
Most people claim fusee's are easy and then secretly struggle for 11 hours
with the B****y things! :-)
Regards
Mark
Darryl Bryant <da...@zip.com.au> wrote in message
news:3845AF32...@zip.com.au...
Darryl Bryant
>
> Most people claim fusee's are easy and then secretly struggle for 11 hours
> with the B****y things! :-)
>
I can file up and fit a new hook on an english dial/bracket clock fuzee
chain in 10-15 mins, the pocket watch size ones take a bit longer
20-25mins.
dAz
EMitch8888
into anything else [but a diamond] no matter how much goo is plunked on it.
Oil-away my friends.
Darryl Bryant
modern jewel bearings and pallets used in watches and platform escapements
are made from synthetic sapphire, older watches and platforms used natural
garnets (soft as butter), rubies, sapphires and diamond for the endstones,
its the jewel than can get grooves from the hard steel escape wheel, also
the dropoff corners can chip away.
so you need to treat them like a pocket watch escapement (balance, pallets
and escape wheel), so if you cannot dismantle, repair, clean, reasemble and
oil it properly, then you should not be anywhere near it, OK!
dAz
EMitch8888
>garnets (soft as butter
True even garnets are 10X harder than hardened steel. See Dana.
Sorry.
The Baron
Darryl Bryant
fine, then why do I find grooves cut into the pallet stones in a 60year+
platform cut there by the "softer" steel escape wheel
The Baron
Darryl Bryant wrote in message <3849B0AA...@zip.com.au>...
EMitch8888
steel will not scratch glass[silica sand is exactly the same]. For instance a
knife blade will not scratch glass but will easily be scratched by the rough
edge of glass.
Garnet I am fairly sure remember is a step harder than glass. Saphires,
emeralds, rubys [saphire and ruby being the "emory" [or, Corundum"] in
sandpaper are harder still [9/10] and diamonds of course at 10.
Why will jewels show wear from a steel? Just shouldn't be so. But the poster
mentioned "dirt". Well, yes, sand being the "dirt".
http://www.24carat.co.uk/hardnessmohsscale.html
Moh Mineral Brinell
10 Diamond
9 Corundum 667
8 Topaz 304
7 Quartz 178
6 Feldspar 147
5 Apatite 137
4 Fluorspar 64
3 Calcite 53
2 Gypsum 12
1 Talc 3
Garnet is a bit of a variable composition but mostly quartz and a Search found
them in general rated at "7-8" [on Moh's].
Thing is tiny rubys, saphires and diamonds are so cheap and so much harder than
garnet it is difficult to understand the use of garnet in your applications.
Thanks for your patience.
Darryl Bryant
>
> Because dirt imbeds itself into the steel, then cuts the stones.
> Darryl Bryant wrote in message <3849B0AA...@zip.com.au>...
> >EMitch8888 wrote:
> >>
you know why, I know why, I am just stirring up the other guy :-)
cheers
dAz
Darryl Bryant
>
>
> Garnet is a bit of a variable composition but mostly quartz and a Search found
> them in general rated at "7-8" [on Moh's].
> Thing is tiny rubys, saphires and diamonds are so cheap and so much harder than
> garnet it is difficult to understand the use of garnet in your applications.
> Thanks for your patience.
Ok first up, I have been doing this for near 30 years, I have to know how
materials behave in relation to each other, thats the reason clock and
watches use brass plates and hard steel pivots, they wear well together,
where you have brass on brass under pressure the wear is fairly excessive.
Garnet is found mostly in cheaper grade swiss/french watches and platforms
made before the 1940s, also it was a natural garnet used, so it varies in
quality, but synthetic sapphire and machining methods improved since then
so even the cheapest watch still has at least one jewel bearing.
as for being cheap for the stones, yes now they are cheap!, but when jewel
bearings were first used in watches by the English watchmakers, they kept
the process of the manufacturing these bearings secret for quite a period
of time, remember the jewel was natural stone, ruby or sapphire (the red
colour ruby was more favoured for preserving the oil!!??), the hole was cut
and polished by hand, the escapment jewels were selected and cut and
polished by hand, so you can imagine jewels were only found in premium
grade watches, eventually other countries figured out how to make the
jewelled bearings and also came up with ways of mass production to make
them cheaper.
the only reason I can see why they used garnet, it was cheap and easier to
machine.
cheers
dAz
A Saywell
some Valjoux 7750 movements even. Buy a cheap version of the movement then
you get a cheaply made version. There are several grades of the same
movement which is why some watches are a lot more expensive than otherwise
apparently identical watches
Alistair Saywell
Darryl Bryant
hmmm, thats interesting!, these would be synthetic garnets yes?, the older
watches and platforms used natural garnets, you can tell by the look of
them, colour all over place, tiny pits, flaws in the stone.
dAz
A Saywell
have been referred to as such in some publications, including fairly
official ones. They are amorphous (apparently), opaque (unlike rubies), red
stones. I don't know how soft they are.
On the wearing out side of things, even rubies wear after a while. What
causes them to wear is a bit of a mystery as iron oxide (jewellers rouge)
is hard enough to attack glass but not, i would have thought, to touch
sapphire. Possibly contaminants, or oxides of from the steel?
Incidentally, natural sapphire/ruby can show flaws, lines, and pits
especially if cut parallel to the axis