Gluing aluminum to glass
David Nebenzahl
aluminum strip to glass.
Client has a glass shower that had a metal channel attached to the
bottom of the door (glass) that had come off. I made a new channel out
of aluminum angle and glued it on using [something I picked up at the
hardware store: don't remember exactly what].
It didn't hold. I need to reglue the strip. What do y'all suggest?
The stuff I'm thinking about is that special goop used to stick
rear-view mirrors to windshields. Amazing shit. I put such a mirror on
my van, and the stuff sticks like crazy. It comes in really little
packages; wonder if you can get a bigger tube of it?
Or epoxy?
Actual experience with your suggestion gets you extra points ...
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
LouB
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=glue+aluminum+to+glass&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS177US215&ie=UTF-8&aq=t&oq=glue+aluminum+to+glass
has over 700,000 "hits"
David Nebenzahl
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> Got a question regarding an upcoming repair job: how to adhere an
>> aluminum strip to glass.
>>
>> Client has a glass shower that had a metal channel attached to the
>> bottom of the door (glass) that had come off. I made a new channel out
>> of aluminum angle and glued it on using [something I picked up at the
>> hardware store: don't remember exactly what].
>>
>> It didn't hold. I need to reglue the strip. What do y'all suggest?
>
> No experience but... http://tinyurl.com/menda7 or
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=glue+aluminum+to+glass&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS177US215&ie=UTF-8&aq=t&oq=glue+aluminum+to+glass
>
> has over 700,000 "hits"
Well, you see, Lou, the reason I posted this question here instead of
just Googling it is that I don't want to wade through those 700,000
hits. I figure I'm ahead if just one or two people here can tell me what
they have *actually used* to glue these things together.
JIMMIE
Maybe this will get you a little closer. I had a problem gluing glass
to glass in kind of and arts and crafts project and finally got it to
work by etching the glass.
My sister in law was big into etching glass at the time so she did it
for me and I dont remember what she used. This ws about 25 years ago.
As far as the mirror glue goes I think its just super glue and the
trick is in the primer that comes in the kit.
Jimmie
Lefty
tape for exactly that purpose. Maybe you could buy some from them as a
replacement part if you can't find something similar at the hardware store?
Lefty
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4a654b4b$0$6358$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> Got a question regarding an upcoming repair job: how to adhere an aluminum
> strip to glass.
>
> Client has a glass shower that had a metal channel attached to the bottom
> of the door (glass) that had come off. <snip>
LouB
experience show up. BTW I have always figured that the hits that count
will be in the first 10 or so - often the first 5.
Please post back with the solution.
Lou
sligoNo...@hotmail.com
There are two that come to mind. Double faced foam tape and
silicon based adhesive. In both cases you will want the industrial
stuff not what you are likely to find at the local box store. You
might find something that will work at the local box store, it will
not be the cheap stuff.
Jim Yanik
news:r6idneTZSNEwGPjX...@centurytel.net:
use a silicone glue,or contact cement.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Smitty Two
David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
I can't recommend a specific product, because my memory doesn't go back
that far ... but generally, you could look for a *non-corrosive* RTV
silicone *adhesive* caulk. (AIUI, most silicone is corrosive to metals,
and most caulk is not formulated as much for adhesion as it is for
sealing.)
Pavel314
>
> - Show quoted text -
I worked in a lamp glass laboratory years ago. We used hydroflouric
acid to etch glass but it's dangerous stuff.
Paul
sligoNo...@hotmail.com
<nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>Got a question regarding an upcoming repair job: how to adhere an
>aluminum strip to glass.
Follow up to my original question. The mirror glue is great UV
activated stuff but it is also not flexible and when working with long
areas with different coefficients of expansion, it will not work.
dadiOH
Silicon caulk. All my windows have applied "muntins"...they are attached
with silicon, have been for 14 years.
The mirror glue is basically cyanoacrylic but (generally) two part. Should
work OK if the channel and glass are in close contact, no idea how it does
with water.
If the glass/aluminumare too sloppy a fit for cyanoacrylic I think epoxy
could work. I'd still use silicon.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
charlie
"dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:eqj9m.28693$qu3....@newsfe18.ams2...
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> Got a question regarding an upcoming repair job: how to adhere an
>> aluminum strip to glass.
>>
>> Client has a glass shower that had a metal channel attached to the
>> bottom of the door (glass) that had come off. I made a new channel out
>> of aluminum angle and glued it on using [something I picked up at the
>> hardware store: don't remember exactly what].
>>
>> It didn't hold. I need to reglue the strip. What do y'all suggest?
>>
>> The stuff I'm thinking about is that special goop used to stick
>> rear-view mirrors to windshields. Amazing shit. I put such a mirror on
>> my van, and the stuff sticks like crazy. It comes in really little
>> packages; wonder if you can get a bigger tube of it?
>>
>> Or epoxy?
>>
>> Actual experience with your suggestion gets you extra points ...
>
> Silicon caulk. All my windows have applied "muntins"...they are attached
> with silicon, have been for 14 years.
>
> The mirror glue is basically cyanoacrylic but (generally) two part.
> Should work OK if the channel and glass are in close contact, no idea how
> it does with water.
>
> If the glass/aluminumare too sloppy a fit for cyanoacrylic I think epoxy
> could work. I'd still use silicon.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
>
i would make that non-acid cure silicone caulk, as the acid cure will attack
the aluminium.
you can get it at ace hardware, but not the big boxes. look for something
called crystal clear or such. if you rough up the glass with wet/dry
sandpaper it will bond a LOT better.
another possiblity is vhb tape. i used some on a glass-steel interface
outside in the phx area, with good success. it's sometimes used to hold on
car windscreens so i used it to restick the rear glass window in my vette
ragtop back on (glass/reinforced cloth interface). i used 3m 4910
when you use this product, you only get one shot at it. it's REALLY hard to
remove, and you can't reposition the objects after they touch.
regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/ChaniArts
George
Dow 744 is a good choice.
Phisherman
The key here is to have absolutely clean surfaces on the glass and
mating metal surfaces. Scrape off all the old glue, sand if needed.
An epoxy such as JB Weld will work fine. It should be good to go in
24 hours.
aemeijers
And we have a winner! The glass and channel has to be super-clean for
anything to hold up. Bottom of the shower door means there is years of
soap residue soaked into both parts. Clean with acetone or similar,
after scraping any residue off. Scuffing up the mating surfaces to
provide fresh surface to bind to can't hurt. I'd stop by local glass
shop and ask them, or maybe even carry the door in there. Their labor
fee may be less than the wasted material, if you have to buy a big
container for a single job. I've seen handles glued to glass doors that
held up for over a decade, so there is stuff out there that will work.
--
aem sends...
JIMMIE
>
> - Show quoted text -
I thought thats what it was but wasnt sure. I also found a supermarket
type spray cleaner that would etch glass, unfortunately I found out
the hard way. I left some on a mirror too long. I think the name of it
was SENSATION.
Jimmie
Nate Nagel
I'm thinking the black stuff that is used for glued-in windshields is
the right stuff to use. Nasty, horrid stuff and yes it does require
squeaky clean surfaces and I believe a special primer to get it to
adhere. probably made by 3M. I believe it comes in caulking tubes.
also, not adhesive at all, but glass setting tape might work - used to
hold car windows (the ones that roll up and down) into their channels.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
RicodJour
http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=Glass&that=Metal
Someone mentioned 3M 4200, which is almost as strong as 5200 but sets
faster - it still takes a long time to cure and there are better
choices is you have to get the shower back into service ASAP.
On of your main concerns will be preventing mold from taking hold, and
for that reason I'd stay away from foam double-stick tape.
R
mike
>
> when you use this product, you only get one shot at it. it's REALLY hard to
> remove, and you can't reposition the objects after they touch.
>
> regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Considering acidic soda pop is stored in aluminum cans for months and
years at a time, I wouldn't worry too much about it. That aluminum
oxide layer on the surface will hold up just fine.
Jim Yanik
news:j5SdnXXVqbWbofvX...@giganews.com:
I suspect that the thermal expansion rates of aluminum and glass differ
enough that JB Weld will not hold.
George
Usually when the coefficients of expansion are so much different you
want a little give otherwise the bond will break. RTV silicone would
work well for this application.
George
Al cans have a coating applied to their interior. Otherwise there would
be lots of gooey leaky stuff all over the shelves at the mega mart.
mike
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Considering acidic soda pop is stored in aluminum cans for months and
> > years at a time, I wouldn't worry too much about it. That aluminum
> > oxide layer on the surface will hold up just fine.
>
> Al cans have a coating applied to their interior. Otherwise there would
>
> - Show quoted text -
The lining was a fairly recent addition. I remember the marketing
hype about how it'd improve the taste of various beverages.
mike
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Considering acidic soda pop is stored in aluminum cans for months and
> > > years at a time, I wouldn't worry too much about it. That aluminum
> > > oxide layer on the surface will hold up just fine.
>
> > Al cans have a coating applied to their interior. Otherwise there would
> > be lots of gooey leaky stuff all over the shelves at the mega mart.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The lining was a fairly recent addition. I remember the marketing
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here we go:
http://jbojangles.blogspot.com/2008/12/my-cans-my-antique-cans.html
Remember the Keystone commericals about the end of "bitter-beer
face"? I assume every manufacturer lines their cans now, but I'm not
sure.
charlie
"mike" <yellow...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38d18f58-49d4-4be8...@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
--
obviously you've never stored soda in cans in your pantry for 6 months to a
year. i can tell you from bitter experience, that yes, they do leak over
time, lose their carbonation, and occasionally when we find a can a couple
years old in the back behind everything, it may even be empty and still be
factory sealed, and a really bad gooey mess underneath it.
it only takes a pinhole in the coating for this to occur.
regards,
charlie
sa...@dog.com
I suggested 3M 4200. 3M 5200 would be a bad choice. 3M 4200 would be
perfect, as this is precisely the sort of thing it was designed to do.
There is a fast curing version of 4200 called "Fast Cure 4200"
Tack free in 1-2 hours and fully cured in 24.
sa...@dog.com
Soda cans are lined with plastic.
George
Actually they were lining them all along. I worked in a business that
manufactured precision measurement systems used in can plants among
others. The marketing folks decided it was time to make that a "new and
improved" pitch.
RicodJour
> RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> >Someone mentioned 3M 4200, which is almost as strong as 5200 but sets
> >faster - it still takes a long time to cure and there are better
> >choices is you have to get the shower back into service ASAP.
>
> perfect, as this is precisely the sort of thing it was designed to do.
> There is a fast curing version of 4200 called "Fast Cure 4200"
>
> Tack free in 1-2 hours and fully cured in 24.
I just checked the 3M web site, and they mention 24-48 hours for a
full cure in one place and 24 hours in another for the Fast Cure
4200. I didn't know that they now made a Fast Cure 5200 as well -
that is listed as a full cure in 24 hours as well. Either one would
be an excellent choice. Thanks for the correction.
R
Bob M.
news:4a654b4b$0$6358$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> strip to glass.
>
> Client has a glass shower that had a metal channel attached to the bottom
> of the door (glass) that had come off. I made a new channel out of
> aluminum angle and glued it on using [something I picked up at the
> hardware store: don't remember exactly what].
>
> It didn't hold. I need to reglue the strip. What do y'all suggest?
3M Weatherstrip adhesive might work. Any auto parts store. Think of it as
contact cement for cars.
sa...@dog.com
5200 would be a poor choice. If you ever had to replace that trim
again, you would have to buy a whole new door. 5200 is only for things
that will NEVER need to be taken apart. Never is a long time.
mike
caulking effects on aluminum, he could pour vinegar in some aluminum
foil set in a bowl for a few hours or even overnight to see what
happens.
Aluminum foil has always held up to such treatment for me without
damage.
RicodJour
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:29:16 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
>
>
>
> <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 21, 7:57 pm, sa...@dog.com wrote:
> >> RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Someone mentioned 3M 4200, which is almost as strong as 5200 but sets
> >> >faster - it still takes a long time to cure and there are better
> >> >choices is you have to get the shower back into service ASAP.
>
> >> I suggested 3M 4200. 3M 5200 would be a bad choice. 3M 4200 would be
> >> perfect, as this is precisely the sort of thing it was designed to do.
> >> There is a fast curing version of 4200 called "Fast Cure 4200"
>
> >> Tack free in 1-2 hours and fully cured in 24.
>
> >I just checked the 3M web site, and they mention 24-48 hours for a
> >full cure in one place and 24 hours in another for the Fast Cure
> >4200. I didn't know that they now made a Fast Cure 5200 as well -
> >that is listed as a full cure in 24 hours as well. Either one would
> >be an excellent choice. Thanks for the correction.
>
>
> again, you would have to buy a whole new door. 5200 is only for things
> that will NEVER need to be taken apart. Never is a long time.
NEVER...? When the literature refers to a permanent bond, they're
talking about a permanent bond with the typical marine materials such
as gelcoat and fiberglass. 5200 (if you use the recommended metal
primer) is approximately twice the strength of 4200, which can present
problems with delamination of gelcoat or fiberglass. Neither the
glass door nor aluminum trim would delaminate so it would not be a
problem. Sure it would be a bitch to get it off, but 4200 would still
present problems in removal.
As I said in an earlier post, mildew is a concern in this
application. 3M Marine Grade Silicone Sealant is mildew resistant,
has the weakest bond if removal is a concern (still plenty strong
enough for this application), the fastest tack time, is non-sag and
would be a better choice than either 4200 or 5200.
R
JIMMIE
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:23:49 -0700 (PDT), mike
Ive seen the acidic type eat through #18 copper wire. Mind you that it
took 3 or 4 years.
Jimmie
mike
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:23:49 -0700 (PDT), mike
>
> <yellowbird...@hotmail.com> wrote:
How long do you think the curing by-products hang around? Futher,
aluminum tanks are used for acid transport, including organic acids
like acetic acid:
You may have to scroll down a few lines after you click the link.
Smitty Two
<cefba046-2fb2-4a06...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
mike <yellow...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Are you the same Mike who didn't realize that aluminum beverage cans
are, and always have been, lined with plastic? Standard silicone *will*
eat metal, and non-corrosive formulas have been around for many years to
alleviate the problem.
Stubbornly defending your ignorance won't Win Friends and Influence
People on usenet. Be willing to learn.
mike
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:19:02 -0700 (PDT), mike
>
> Just curious.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
How is that relevant? Further, it appears this tangent is kinda moot,
since the most common silicone sealant (GE Silicone II) doesn't
release acid during cure:
"Product releases methanol and ammonia during curing"
mike
> In article
> <cefba046-2fb2-4a06-9682-194748d17...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you SURE about that? Are you the same SmittyTwo who didn't
realize that acetic acid is transported in aluminum tanks? Anyway, I
know you're a troll who always gets in 500 post marathons with
people. I'll not be feeding you anymore.
I know, I'm an ignorant fool for believing the manufacturer when it
says it's recommended for aluminum, among other materials.
http://www.doityourself.com/invt/u510461
Go troll elsewhere.
mike
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:40:55 -0700 (PDT), mike
> adhesive/sealant, not just a sealant. He has already tried something
> that didn't hold well in this application. It is for a "client", so
> I'm basing my advice on the theory that he wants to only do this once,
> and get it right.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lousy? It may not be equivalent to welding, but for goodness sakes,
they mount undermounted sinks with silicone sealant (sometimes
marketed as an adhesive).
It may well be enough for application in mind. But that's the OP's
call.
RicodJour
>
> Silicone sealant is a lousy adhesive. The OP is looking for an
> adhesive/sealant, not just a sealant. He has already tried something
> that didn't hold well in this application. It is for a "client", so
> I'm basing my advice on the theory that he wants to only do this once,
> and get it right.
Wait a minute - just a second ago you were arguing that 5200 was a bad
choice as it was permanent. Arguments go a lot smoother if you pick a
side and stick to it! ;)
R
mike
>
> Stainless Steel is not aluminum.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can you decode for me what you meant in declaring that stainless is
not aluminum?
mike
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:12:23 -0700 (PDT), mike
> acceptable for containing acetic acid. I think you should go now and
> read the whole document.
>
> After reading it myself, I concluded that you must think stainless
> steel is aluminum.
>
> Although this document does not mention it, acetic acid is also
> sometimes stored in mild steel tanks - WITH A RUBBER LINER.
Just because one material is listed, it does not therefore exclude
other materials. If you read the link I listed earlier:
...you'd see that it says that welded aluminum tanks are used, too.
RicodJour
> until something simpler comes along. ;)
Gluing aluminum to glass is complicated...? I don't think so. I was
kind of hoping that you would ask me the question about working on
boats and my experience, but you didn't. Playing favorites I
guess. :)~
I'm of the opinion that if it says 3M on the package, it's good
stuff. You stated, unequivocally, that silicone is a lousy adhesive.
What about 3M Marine Grade Silicone Sealant do you not like for the
OP's application?
R
sa...@dog.com
But, as it states, aluminum tanks have the drawback of less resistance
to CORROSION.
That article is also specific to storage tanks, not tank trucks, where
environmental conditions are much harder to control. It also mentions
aluminum only as suitable with specific acids, none of which are
acetic acid.
sa...@dog.com
The OP has already unsuccessfully bonded these two pieces of a shower
for a client. Saying 3M on tha package is a good start, but 3M makes
an awful lot of products because they know that one size does not fit
all. A good craftsman knows his tools. What I don't like about 3M
marine grade silicone sealant for the OP's application is that
Silicone is a very weak adhesive. It is really more of a filler for
bedding hardware, with enough adhesive properties to make a fairly
good seal. It's not intended to bond things together in a structural
sense, which is what is required for the OP's application.
mike
>
> - Show quoted text -
How did trucks get thrown in? *sigh* The book says it's OK for
organic acids, of which acetic acid qualifies. I think I'm done with
the dead-end tangent that you keep filling with non-sequiturs. If
you want more specifics see chart 9 on the bottom of this page:
But none of this is any interest to the OP, since there are no acids
involved with the Silicone II you find at the local borg.
John Gilmer
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4a654b4b$0$6358$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> Got a question regarding an upcoming repair job: how to adhere an aluminum
> strip to glass.
>
> Client has a glass shower that had a metal channel attached to the bottom
> of the door (glass) that had come off. I made a new channel out of
> aluminum angle and glued it on using [something I picked up at the
> hardware store: don't remember exactly what].
RTV "silicon" rubber sealer works pretty well with glass. It's used to
hold together glass aquariums up to a pretty good size. You have to give
it time to cure but it is plenty strong.
>
> It didn't hold. I need to reglue the strip. What do y'all suggest?
>
> The stuff I'm thinking about is that special goop used to stick rear-view
> mirrors to windshields. Amazing shit. I put such a mirror on my van, and
> the stuff sticks like crazy. It comes in really little packages; wonder if
> you can get a bigger tube of it?
The "kit" that stuff is sold in cost $2+ to hold about one square inch of
material to your windshield.
>
> Or epoxy?
If you have a "soft setting" epoxy, that might work about as well as the
well cured silicone RTV stuff.
sa...@dog.com
<jlgi...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>news:4a654b4b$0$6358$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>> Got a question regarding an upcoming repair job: how to adhere an aluminum
>> strip to glass.
>>
>> Client has a glass shower that had a metal channel attached to the bottom
>> of the door (glass) that had come off. I made a new channel out of
>> aluminum angle and glued it on using [something I picked up at the
>> hardware store: don't remember exactly what].
>
>RTV "silicon" rubber sealer works pretty well with glass. It's used to
>hold together glass aquariums up to a pretty good size. You have to give
>it time to cure but it is plenty strong.
>>
The silicone used for aquariums is specially formulated for that task.
Regular silicone will kill the fish
charlie
<sa...@dog.com> wrote in message
news:ikih65hkkh4mptra2...@4ax.com...
the silicone used for aquariums is identical to that sold for caulking minus
the mildewicides.
sa...@dog.com
That sounds like "special" to me.
Zz Yzx
David Nebenzahl
Sorry, not even close.
I notice that links to this site come up often when questions of what
glue to use to glue X to Y are raised. But it's just not a very good web
site.
Pity; you'd think a site called "This to That" would be a valuable
resource to answer such questions. But I'd say it's like a Reader's
Digest of this kind of information, meaning most of what's there is very
common knowledge with little depth. A lot of it falls into the "Duh!"
category.
This is their answer to what to use to glue metal to glass:
Metal to Glass
For the strongest, fastest, and most invisible bond we recommend:
Loctite Impruv
If appearance isn't much of a concern, try:
J-B Weld
Maybe you are gluing a rear view mirror.
Whenever you are gluing glass you must consider the visibility of the
adhesive. If the glass is translucent or transparent, you will want a
glue that dries as clear as possible.
Whenever you are gluing metal it's a good idea to clean it first with
steel wool or sandpaper. (Rust never sleeps.)
Before gluing any glass bond be sure that the glass is clean, free of
any oil (even from your fingers) and dry.
Notice there's no mention of silicone adhesives, nor of the problems
with different rates of expansion in gluing these materials.
Not very useful. Sorry.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism