1/4" sheetrock over old plaster walls??
The Fisher's
some problems. One being the plaster walls in the living room. They have
many, many layers of wallpaper over them and we suspect the original plaster
is beyond repair beneath the wallpaper. We just refinished our bedroom (next
to the living room) and because of the state of the walls, we had to tear
out all the lath and plaster and put up sheetrock...what a mess!
What problems might there be if we were to put up 1/4" sheetrock over the
existing walls? We have been removing all the old woodwork, stripping it
and then putting back up, so that should not be a problem. I cannot foresee
any problems with this, but as not having done it before, there might be
that unexpected.
Also, the ceiling in the living room is the 1950's tile (tongue and groove
type). I suspect that it was nailed up to the original ceiling, but won't
know until I tear it out. Would there be a problem in putting up sheetrock
on top of the old plaster ceiling? The sheetrock would be heavier than the
tile now.
I would like to avoid having to tear up everything and start from scratch as
I had to do in the bedroom.
Any advice?
Roger
*Casey*
What you suggest can be done. It is usually easier, and certainly more true
to an 1885 house, to repair the existing plaster. Drywall, properly taped,
is extremely monotonous and lacking in character.
BTW, use 1/2" on your ceilings, because 1/4 or 3/8 will sag.
Casey
The Fisher's wrote in message
John Kostecki
Terry Kennedy wrote:
> In alt.home.repair The Fisher's <fis...@michweb.net> wrote:
> > What problems might there be if we were to put up 1/4" sheetrock over the
> > existing walls? We have been removing all the old woodwork, stripping it
> > and then putting back up, so that should not be a problem. I cannot foresee
> > any problems with this, but as not having done it before, there might be
> > that unexpected.
>
> I didn't even know they made 1/4" rock - the thinnest I've seen around here
> is 3/8".
I have never seen it at "big box" hardware stores, but drywall supply houses carry
it.
> Anyway, many old plaster jobs are not as level as they may appear, par-
> ticularly in corners. This will give you a fair amount of trouble if your
> walls are like this.
I would think that 1/4" will flex enough for most situations. You should put a
layer of mud over the whole suface, and comb it out with a trowel like you would
flooring or tile adhesive. You also want to put screws in at least every 12",
which should keep the thin sheetrock from sagging.
The problem that you will have is getting good looking joints. If you have never
done it before, you should at least get a helping hand from someone with
experience.
> The other advantages to ripping it all out are:
>
> o You have access behind the walls to upgrade wiring, install insulation,
> heating ducts/central AC, etc.
This cannot be understated. On ceilings, you also get the ability to put some
insulation in for sound deadening.
> o No need for funky fillers/extenders between the door frame and trim
That can also be a problem. You may want to consider taking the old plaster off
the lath, and putting 3/8" or 1/2" sheetrock over the lath.
Just my $.02,
JK
Terry Kennedy
> What problems might there be if we were to put up 1/4" sheetrock over the
> existing walls? We have been removing all the old woodwork, stripping it
> and then putting back up, so that should not be a problem. I cannot foresee
> any problems with this, but as not having done it before, there might be
> that unexpected.
I didn't even know they made 1/4" rock - the thinnest I've seen around here
is 3/8".
Anyway, many old plaster jobs are not as level as they may appear, par-
ticularly in corners. This will give you a fair amount of trouble if your
walls are like this.
The other advantages to ripping it all out are:
o You have access behind the walls to upgrade wiring, install insulation,
heating ducts/central AC, etc.
o No need for funky fillers/extenders between the door frame and trim
Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing
te...@spcvxa.spc.edu St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
+1 201 915 9381 (voice) +1 201 435-3662 (FAX)
Dave Baggaley
If you go this route, you might consider upgrading the insulation
and vapour barrier on the exterior walls. You could pump in
cellulose or other insulation from the inside. You could also
add a layer of rigid foam insulation or frame the walls and add
fiberglass.
You might want to upgrade your electrical now if needed. Any holes
you punch in the walls will be covered by the new drywall. The old
electrical boxes will need to be looked at. There are extension
pieces
available to extend the electrical boxes out.
One problem with putting drywall over lath and plaster is that
the original wall is probably uneven. You might have to run wood
strapping as nailing strips under the drywall. You might even have to
shim out the strapping over low spots on the wall.
Consider it a character building exercise.
Dave
*Casey* wrote:
>
> Hi,
> What you suggest can be done. It is usually easier, and certainly more true
> to an 1885 house, to repair the existing plaster. Drywall, properly taped,
> is extremely monotonous and lacking in character.
> BTW, use 1/2" on your ceilings, because 1/4 or 3/8 will sag.
> Casey
>
> The Fisher's wrote in message
> >We live in a home built in 1885. While structurally sound, it does have
> >some problems. One being the plaster walls in the living room. They have
> >many, many layers of wallpaper over them and we suspect the original
> plaster
> >is beyond repair beneath the wallpaper. We just refinished our bedroom
> (next
> >to the living room) and because of the state of the walls, we had to tear
> >out all the lath and plaster and put up sheetrock...what a mess!
> >
> >What problems might there be if we were to put up 1/4" sheetrock over the
> >existing walls? We have been removing all the old woodwork, stripping it
> >and then putting back up, so that should not be a problem. I cannot
> foresee
> >any problems with this, but as not having done it before, there might be
> >that unexpected.
> >
> >Also, the ceiling in the living room is the 1950's tile (tongue and groove
> >type). I suspect that it was nailed up to the original ceiling, but won't
> >know until I tear it out. Would there be a problem in putting up sheetrock
> >on top of the old plaster ceiling? The sheetrock would be heavier than the
> >tile now.
> >
> >I would like to avoid having to tear up everything and start from scratch
> as
> >I had to do in the bedroom.
> >
> >Any advice?
> >
> >Roger
> >
> >
--
mailto:David.B...@ec.gc.ca.ca <==Get rid of the stutter.
Thunder Bay, Ontario
The art of prophesy is very difficult, especially with respect to the
future- Mark Twain
J Pagona
>is extremely monotonous and lacking in character.
I love it when flawed, uneven workmanship is called character.
Ron Natalie
>
> We live in a home built in 1885. While structurally sound, it does have
> some problems. One being the plaster walls in the living room. They have
> many, many layers of wallpaper over them and we suspect the original plaster
> is beyond repair beneath the wallpaper. We just refinished our bedroom (next
> to the living room) and because of the state of the walls, we had to tear
> out all the lath and plaster and put up sheetrock...what a mess!
The plaster must have been awful. I've stripped 50 years of paper/paint
combinations off of old lath/brown plaster/white plaster walls and it
came down to the base surface just beutifully. The only really hard
part was finding brown plaster to redo around a couple of the windows
where there was some water damage.
> What problems might there be if we were to put up 1/4" sheetrock over the
> existing walls?
I've seen this done (the ceiling in my grandparents house had this
done).
Works ok, but you got to make sure that you have something solid to
screw
the sheetrock into, so you got to pull the loose stuff off anyhow.
> Also, the ceiling in the living room is the 1950's tile (tongue and groove
> type). I suspect that it was nailed up to the original ceiling, but won't
> know until I tear it out.
If you mean accoustic tile (ugh) it was probably glued on (which is
worse,
patching nail holes is childsplay compared to remving glue dabs).
David C Breeden
>The Fisher's wrote:
>>
>> We live in a home built in 1885. While structurally sound, it does have
>> some problems. One being the plaster walls in the living room. They have
>> many, many layers of wallpaper over them and we suspect the original plaster
>> is beyond repair beneath the wallpaper. We just refinished our bedroom (next
>> to the living room) and because of the state of the walls, we had to tear
>> out all the lath and plaster and put up sheetrock...what a mess!
>The plaster must have been awful. I've stripped 50 years of paper/paint
>combinations off of old lath/brown plaster/white plaster walls and it
>came down to the base surface just beutifully. The only really hard
>part was finding brown plaster to redo around a couple of the windows
>where there was some water damage.
<snip>
What have you used to strip the paper? We've just bought an 80 year old
house with plaster/lathe walls, and want to strip the wall paper, but
aren't sure what to use. Any advice would be much appreciated.
For what it's worth, wee've pretty much decided against a steamer, since
it seems most likely to damage the walls, and are likely going to try DIF
(an enzyme based remover) and scoring/scraping the walls).
Thanks for any advice!
Dave
****************************************************************************
Dave Breeden bre...@lightlink.com
rich
>
>For what it's worth, wee've pretty much decided against a steamer, since
>it seems most likely to damage the walls, and are likely going to try DIF
>(an enzyme based remover) and scoring/scraping the walls).
We scraped most of our house with DIF. Keep a window open. The fumes,
while not toxic IIRC, are irritating after a while.
I'm still not sure if those "Paper Tiger" wallpaper scorers were worth
it. It was fun using them, though.
Make sure you get wallpaper stripping knives. And LOTS of extra blades.
The paper must be SOAKED and the blade must be REALLY SHARP or you'll
nick the lime coat.
Took us about 3 hours to do a 12' square room.
--
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
Rick English
I am also an associate member of the California Real Estate Inspector's
association.
I wanted to do the same thing with ˝" drywall. I was advised not to do it
because of the added weight. These guys tell me that many old houses sag and go
out of level not because of age or poor engineering but because multiple owners
keep adding weight in the form of additional roofs, drywall, tons of attic junk,
etc.
I just removed six layers of roofing and put on a new roof. My house hasn't
re-leveled itself but I can notice a difference.
Last year's rain and this years roofing project have left my ceilings in pretty
bad shape. I think that I'll take the lath and plaster off and replace it with
drywall. I don't know whether I'll be sacrificing "character" but I know that it
will look smooth and weigh a lot less.
Mark Armstrong
>
>
> Anyway, many old plaster jobs are not as level as they may appear, par-
> ticularly in corners. This will give you a fair amount of trouble if your
> walls are like this.
>
> The other advantages to ripping it all out are:
>
> o You have access behind the walls to upgrade wiring, install insulation,
> heating ducts/central AC, etc.
>
> o No need for funky fillers/extenders between the door frame and trim
>
Disadvantages
You weaken the wall
Lots and lots of work. If you have blown in insulation, it is
a very messy job.
You should be able to run new wiring. You could cut a 1" slot in the
plaster and run the wiring. Knock out a hole a feed the wiring. I used
remodeling boxes. I mark where the wire is on the floor and hung the
drywall. Cut the remodeling box hole. I glued a piece of lath behind
the drywall to add some strength (over the years, the remodeling boxes
might break thru the drywall).
Mark
Michel Gagnon
> Also schrieb David C Breeden:
> >
> >For what it's worth, wee've pretty much decided against a steamer, since
> >it seems most likely to damage the walls, and are likely going to try DIF
> >(an enzyme based remover) and scoring/scraping the walls).
>
> We scraped most of our house with DIF. Keep a window open. The fumes,
> while not toxic IIRC, are irritating after a while.
>
For a wall that had 2 coats of vinyl and paper type wall paper, I used
DIF as follows.
- Apply a first coat with a sponge, two strips ahead of where I am
working (it will soak for about 10 minutes until I get there)
- Go back to where I am working, and apply a second coat of DIF.
- Use a 6 inch spatula to carefully lift the wall paper. It usually
comes without problems.
- Use more diluted DIF to rinse off.
- Sand lightly to make sure you don't have residues left.
--
Michel Gagnon -- Michel...@videotron.ca
Montréal (Québec, Canada)
Michel Gagnon
> I live in a house that was built in 1906. It also has lathe and plaster walls.
> I am also an associate member of the California Real Estate Inspector's
> association.
>
> I wanted to do the same thing with xx" drywall. I was advised not to do it
> because of the added weight. These guys tell me that many old houses sag
> and go out of level not because of age or poor engineering but because
> multiple owners keep adding weight in the form of additional roofs,
> drywall, tons of attic junk, etc.
>
This is a problem, although, as you said, poor engineering is usually
not the problem.
All materials sag over time. This is true of steel, wood, and especially
concrete. This long-term sag is normal even when no extra load is added,
but this is especially problematic with thinner members.
Many houses are not built on rocks or sand, but on clay or other
flexible soil. These soils settle over time, and the problems occur when
the settling is uneven, either because of unequal soils characteristics
or because of uneven load distribution.
Most modern houses have better design (like support walls falling
exactly in line with beams and columns), but this is compensated by
lighter structure, which is OK, providing workmanship is OK. They also
have less flexible (local flex) floorings, which is great for large
tiles. However, in the small-house market, nothing has significantly
improved in long term sagging or settling. Time will tell what happen to
those lovely 1980 houses when they are 100 years old.
*Casey*
J Pagona wrote in message <19981214230836...@ng144.aol.com>...
>> Drywall, properly taped,
>>is extremely monotonous and lacking in character.
>
>I love it when flawed, uneven workmanship is called character.
The workmanship is not in question; lath/plaster walls were an extremely
effective way of evening out irregular framing. Most plaster walls I've seen
done lately are flatter than drywall, and far, far smoother.
It's the fact that plaster walls have endured indifferent care and neglect
for over a century, and with a bit of skilled attention can be brought back.
I cannot foresee the day when drywall will be valued as worthy of
restoration. Plaster walls are like a vintage auto, you restore it because
it is something of a bygone era. Drywall is like a Ford Escort; it breaks
after the warranty, and you throw it away without remorse, for it is, in the
end, utterly discardable.
Casey
J Pagona
>The workmanship is not in question; lath/plaster walls were an extremely
>effective way of evening out irregular framing. Most plaster walls I've seen
>done lately are flatter than drywall, and far, far smoother.
>It's the fact that plaster walls have endured indifferent care and neglect
>for over a century, and with a bit of skilled attention can be brought back.
>
notch drywall work are virtually indistinguishable to the eye if the aim is a
flat smooth wall.
The original quote was that drywall lacked character. I have lived in an old
house with plaster that had "character". It wasn't straight.. It wasn't
plumb. It had a rough, ugly texture. It had "character", bad character.
>I cannot foresee the day when drywall will be valued as worthy of
>restoration. Plaster walls are like a vintage auto, you restore it because
>it is something of a bygone era.
I agree if it was good workmanship to begin with. Poor workmanship, no matter
how old, should be discarded if all else is equal. While a quality plaster job
is generally superior to a quality drywall job, good drywall beats bad plaster.
Anyways, my point is that too often lately, I have seen poor workmanship sold
as "charater". I have been furniture shopping lately. In a number of stores I
have seen rustic styled furniture with doors that don't fit right and drawers
that are crooked. If you point this out to a sales person, They tell you that
"it's the character of the piece." I'll take quality over character any day.
J. Pagona
Ron Natalie
>
> What have you used to strip the paper? We've just bought an 80 year old
> house with plaster/lathe walls, and want to strip the wall paper, but
> aren't sure what to use. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Prety much just saturate it with wall paper remover (which seems
to be isopropyl alchohol and maybe some soap). Some have suggested
tool to poke holes in it if it is something relatively impervious.
Wet, scrape, wet, scrape, not exactly glamourous work, but it
will get done. I've stripped an entire house of various
combinations of foil, vinyl, and straght paper with this
methodology and that nightmare I refered to that had many
layers of paint and paper combinations.
I've never used a steamer so I can't comment on their merits.
Danny Bolt
never works as well as you'd like, the trim must be spaced out and it always
shows. Ceilings on the other hand work pretty well but I would not hang
drywall directly over plaster, I know people do it all the time but I think
it's putting a lot of faith on the drywall screws to hold up the plaster if
it turns loose. I just cut up 1/2" cheap CDX plywood into 3" strips and
screw tightly to the joists then hang the drywall to that. This gives
support to the plaster above and provides a wiring chase sufficient for 3/14
cable for ceiling fixtures.
Dan
The Fisher's wrote in message
>We live in a home built in 1885. While structurally sound, it does have
>some problems. One being the plaster walls in the living room. They have
>many, many layers of wallpaper over them and we suspect the original
plaster
>is beyond repair beneath the wallpaper. We just refinished our bedroom
(next
>to the living room) and because of the state of the walls, we had to tear
>out all the lath and plaster and put up sheetrock...what a mess!
>
>What problems might there be if we were to put up 1/4" sheetrock over the
>existing walls? We have been removing all the old woodwork, stripping it
>and then putting back up, so that should not be a problem. I cannot
foresee
>any problems with this, but as not having done it before, there might be
>that unexpected.
>
>Also, the ceiling in the living room is the 1950's tile (tongue and groove
>type). I suspect that it was nailed up to the original ceiling, but won't
John Kostecki
Danny Bolt wrote:
> I would not laminate over plaster on any wall with door or window trim. It
> never works as well as you'd like, the trim must be spaced out and it always
> shows. Ceilings on the other hand work pretty well but I would not hang
> drywall directly over plaster, I know people do it all the time but I think
> it's putting a lot of faith on the drywall screws to hold up the plaster if
> it turns loose. I just cut up 1/2" cheap CDX plywood into 3" strips and
> screw tightly to the joists then hang the drywall to that. This gives
> support to the plaster above and provides a wiring chase sufficient for 3/14
> cable for ceiling fixtures.
>
Sound advice, except for the wiring part. You can't run romex that close to the
surface w/o protection, and it would be tough to protect it in that
circumstance.
JK
danh...@infonet.isl.net
>Did any mention the 1/4 gap he'll have after he puts the trim back up?
>around the door jams and windows? :-)
Actually, this is no big deal. Just get some 1/4" thick strips ripped out
of a 3/4" board of the appropriate species. They can be stained and
varnished before installing (or even before ripping). Then just tack them
on with a few small nails before applying the trim.
Dan Hicks
Hey!! My advice is free -- take it for what it's worth!
http://www.millcomm.com/~danhicks
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mat...@st.james.net
Breeden) wrote:
>What have you used to strip the paper? We've just bought an 80 year old
>house with plaster/lathe walls, and want to strip the wall paper, but
>aren't sure what to use. Any advice would be much appreciated.
>
>For what it's worth, wee've pretty much decided against a steamer, since
>it seems most likely to damage the walls, and are likely going to try DIF
>(an enzyme based remover) and scoring/scraping the walls).
Hi,
I stripped the whole house. Wallpaper on top of wallpaper up t o8
layers, on wall *and* on the ceiling. The last layer left glue behind
on the walls (lath and plaster.) I used a Sears steamer/stripper for
the whole job. Well most of it. I had to get a new one near the end.
When done, I had to fill in hundreds of small chips and cracks.
However, there were only two fairly large areas to replaster (and a
few smaller ones.) These I did by knocking out the loose plaster (to
a point) and then putting in a bit of screening (as in screen doors)
by stapling it. Then a few layers of plaster and LOTS of patience.
The result is that I kept the old walls and did not have to make any
adjustments around the woodwork. I removed that when doing a room and
stripped it of varnish with a good scrubbing of concentrated TSP
(water soluble) which was then hosed away.
Teh result is worth the time and effort. A friend is still using the
stripper. Be surer to use distilled water (from a dehumidifier) or
store-bought to stop clogging of the filter. Have a few extra filters
on hand if you decide to go that way.
John.
mat...@st.james.net
Breeden) wrote:
>What have you used to strip the paper? We've just bought an 80 year old
>house with plaster/lathe walls, and want to strip the wall paper, but
>aren't sure what to use. Any advice would be much appreciated.
>
>For what it's worth, wee've pretty much decided against a steamer, since
>it seems most likely to damage the walls, and are likely going to try DIF
>(an enzyme based remover) and scoring/scraping the walls).
Hi,
I stripped the whole house. Wallpaper on top of wallpaper up t o8
layers, on wall *and* on the ceiling. The last layer left glue behind
on the walls (lath and plaster.) I used a Sears steamer/stripper for
the whole job. Well most of it. I had to get a new one near the end.
When done, I had to fill in hundreds of small chips and cracks.
However, there were only two fairly large areas to replaster (and a
few smaller ones.) These I did by knocking out the loose plaster (to
a point) and then putting in a bit of screening (as in screen doors)
by stapling it. Then a few layers of plaster and LOTS of patience.
The result is that I kept the old walls and did not have to make any
adjustments around the woodwork. I removed that when doing a room and
stripped it of varnish with a good scrubbing of concentrated TSP
(water soluble) which was then hosed away.
Teh result is worth the time and effort. A friend is still using the
stripper. Be sure to use distilled water (from a dehumidifier) or