Fence Rails: 2 or 3?
mike
boards to attach to. I've also noticed that new specs often show 3
rails, without comment. I'm thinking that this might be due to the
fence boards being much thinner than they used to be.
I like to place my rails long side vertical, so I don't get excessive
sagging over time. But I'm thinking that unless I expect the fence to
see hard wind loads or other severe attacks (kicks, etc.), 2 rails
might be enough.
Any thoughts?
RicodJour
Depends on the size of the rails, the size and weight of the fence
boards/pickets, the distance between the posts, the material of the
rails (vinyl over steel or aluminum, wood species), the aesethetic
sense of the the owner/installer, etc.
R
mook johnson
"mike" <yellow...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:02f2a271-fd82-4116...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
I've seen fences installed after Huricane Ike hit down here in Houston and
the ones with two rails have boards warping and bowing like crazy. I mean
every board is going a different direction. This is in more than just one
neighborhood so it looks like the quality of fence board in general has gone
down. 3 rails (top middle and bottom) may help with this warping issue.
mike
2x4's. PT Wood. 8 ft post spacing.
mm
<yellow...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I notice the old fences around all have 2 horizontal rails for the
>boards to attach to. I've also noticed that new specs often show 3
>rails, without comment. I'm thinking that this might be due to the
>fence boards being much thinner than they used to be.
Are they much thinner, or are you only thinking that? Serious
quesiton. I can read your sentence either way.
>
>I like to place my rails long side vertical, so I don't get excessive
>sagging over time. But I'm thinking that unless I expect the fence to
>see hard wind loads or other severe attacks (kicks, etc.), 2 rails
>might be enough.
>
>Any thoughts?
What kind of fence? Rail? Picket? etc.?
You plan to use 2x4's for rails? When were rails ever that thick?
Even if they once were, thinner rails are used all over the place and
they are fine.
With a rail fence, three rails will each bear as much load as the two
rails would, and the load on the posts will be 50% higher.
Mook, you don't say what kind of fence you're talking about either,
but if two rails warp, so will three.
I have a picket fence, and plenty of the rails are 30 years old. They
look just like they did 26 year, but a bit greyer. Most are 8 feet
long. They are shaped like a parenthesis on one side and straight on
the other. They sell new, treated ones at Home Depot that are close
enough that even I don't notice that they don't match. The new ones
are treated.
RicodJour
>
> With a rail fence, three rails will each bear as much load as the two
> rails would,
Each? Not quite - each rail in a three rail fence will only have to
take 2/3 of the load on a rail in a two rail fence.
> and the load on the posts will be 50% higher.
The only difference is the weight of the rail and the additional
fasteners. Not sure where you get the load difference numbers.
R
aemeijers
Nobody else said it, so I will- how tall is the damn fence? For a short
fence, 2 rails may be fine, but for a traditional 6-foot privacy fence,
we always used 3. We also usually used alternating-side pickets with an
overlap, so some wind could still blow through. Plus, that way, no
arguments about who gets the pretty side.
--
aem sends...
HeyBub
My house backs up to a 200' wide power-line easement. The houses on my side
of the easement all had their fences installed with metal posts. No a single
fence came down during hurricane Yikes! The houses on the other side of the
easement all had wooden posts. Almost all of them were flattened.
Wayne Boatwright
Are you referring to the vertical posts in the ground? What size were the
wooden posts? In our area they usually use pressure-treated 4x4's. In
almost all cases, whether pre-bilt panels or built in place, there are
three rails supporting the vertical pickets.
--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never work before breakfast; if you have to work before breakfast,
eat your breakfast first. ~Josh Billings
HeyBub
>>
>> My house backs up to a 200' wide power-line easement. The houses on
>> my side of the easement all had their fences installed with metal
>> posts. No a single fence came down during hurricane Yikes! The
>> houses on the other side of the easement all had wooden posts.
>> Almost all of them were flattened.
>
> Are you referring to the vertical posts in the ground? What size
> were the wooden posts? In our area they usually use pressure-treated
> 4x4's. In almost all cases, whether pre-bilt panels or built in
> place, there are three rails supporting the vertical pickets.
Yeah, the vertical posts. Best I could tell (from 200' away) they were the
standard 4x4s. The laterals were 2x4s, but it didn't make any difference.
The wind snapped the vertical posts at ground level.
Truth be told, I suspect the posts were more than fifteen years old, mostly
rotted, and required only a puff to tumble them over. Of course galvanized
metal posts set in concrete don't rot, so...
Wayne Boatwright
Yes, they probably had some rot damage. Our pressure-treated 4x4's are set
in concrete and we live in the desert, so any type of wet rot would
probably not happen. BTW, how do you attach a wooden fence (I'm assuming
something like a stockade fence) to metal posts? Curious. Thanks...
--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red meat is not bad for you. Now blue ~green meat, that�s bad for
you! ~Tommy Smothers
Bert Byfield
The purpose of the fence matters. If it is just for show, two rails is
enough. If it is to stop certain critters, three might work better.
SteveBell
>BTW, how do you attach a wooden fence (I'm assuming
>something like a stockade fence) to metal posts?
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/PGT.asp
--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA
Wayne Boatwright
>
>>BTW, how do you attach a wooden fence (I'm assuming something like a
>>stockade fence) to metal posts?
>
> http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/PGT.asp
>
Thanks, Steve!
--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating
a homegrown tomato. ~Lewis Grizzard
HeyBub
>>
>> Yeah, the vertical posts. Best I could tell (from 200' away) they
>> were the standard 4x4s. The laterals were 2x4s, but it didn't make
>> any difference. The wind snapped the vertical posts at ground level.
>>
>> Truth be told, I suspect the posts were more than fifteen years old,
>> mostly rotted, and required only a puff to tumble them over. Of
>> course galvanized metal posts set in concrete don't rot, so...
>
> Yes, they probably had some rot damage. Our pressure-treated 4x4's
> are set in concrete and we live in the desert, so any type of wet rot
> would probably not happen. BTW, how do you attach a wooden fence
> (I'm assuming something like a stockade fence) to metal posts?
> Curious. Thanks...
Several ways.
Our fence has holes drilled through the posts with 6" lag bolts attaching
the post to the rails.
You can also get clamps that fit around the post and are screwed to the
horizontal rails.
Wayne Boatwright
Thank you!
--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
An empty belly is the best cook. ~Estonian Proverb
BobR
>
> - Show quoted text -
You didn't indicate rather it is a 6' or 8' fence. If you are going
with an 8' then use three rails without question. On the 6' fence,
you can get away with two but if it were me doing the fence, I would
use three rails and a 1x8 or 1x12 kick board at the bottom. The three
rails will give better support and keep the pickets from bowing. The
kick board (or rot board if you prefer) will keep the pickets out if
the mud and water giving them added life. The kick board can easily
be replaced as needed.
Also, mound the concrete around the posts to force the water to run
off instead of seeping in around the posts. I did that and after a
couple of years I added silicone caulking around the posts. Wait a
couple of years to allow the wood to dry and shrink. I replaced the
pickets on a 20 year old fence a couple of years ago and only had to
replace the pickets and a few of the rails. I didn't use the kick
board the first time but added it when replacing. The posts were
still in good shape and didn't need to be replaced. Oh yes, that was
in Houston too.
mook johnson
> Mook, you don't say what kind of fence you're talking about either,
> but if two rails warp, so will three.
I'm talking about standard privacy fence with the dogeared top.
http://images.lowes.com/product/054561/054561106084.jpg
One owed inward the other bowed outward ther other one sideways. Good lord.
these look terrible just afew months after installation. Probably cheap
wood.
mm
<rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>On May 11, 6:02�pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>> With a rail fence, three rails will each bear as much load as the two
>> rails would,
>
>Each? Not quite - each rail in a three rail fence will only have to
>take 2/3 of the load on a rail in a two rail fence.
A rail fence, meaning one with no pickets, just rails. I was
referring to wind load, that I think someone in another post referred
to, and it's the only load the rails have anyhow.
>
>> and the load on the posts will be 50% higher.
>
>The only difference is the weight of the rail and the additional
>fasteners. Not sure where you get the load difference numbers.
Wind. Some hurricane was mentioned.
But it's interesting that mook assumed a privacy fence, and I was
thinking about a 4 foot rail fence never did give an adequate
descriptin of the fence. He has to learn to ask questions well.
>R
mike
6 foot tall privacy fence. All such fences in the area have 2 rails,
and seem to be none the worse off for it. The big problems are post
rotting and leaning as well as fence sag due to the 2X4 rails being
placed with the short dimension vertical.
mike
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's a 6' privacy fence, but no wood posts. The new arsenic-free PT
posts seem to have brown rot issues. I'll keep the fence boards 2 or
3 inches off the ground to keep the dirt off them.
Nikella
How many inches between each board if going with 3 board / 3feet tall
posts?????
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/fence-rails-2-or-3-372305-.htm
Bill
> replying to aemeijers, Nikella wrote:
> How many inches between each board if going with 3 board / 3feet tall
>
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
Terry Coombs
fences . He did discover that the electric fence around the garden - for
deer control - hurts ... Max could clear a 3 foot fence without trying .
--
Snag
Jimi
I believe what was meant was *"in total bare"not ("each bear")* ....and the
POINT BEING the posts bare the weight in the end and the rails purpose is to
create a place to fasten fence boards to ...so unless hit by large forces of
wind 2 rails is sufficient