What would make a good insulating material for a water bed?

[Metspitzer]

What would make a good insulating material for a water bed?

My niece has a water bed. The heater from the water bed makes her
room hotter than the rest of the house. I suggested that she take a
blanket and put it under the fitted sheet and try to turn the heater
down a few degrees. She says that even with the blanket, if she turns
the heater down any the bed is too cold.

[Dan Espen]

Turning down the heater is no good.
Even slightly too cool sucks body heat.
A single blanket under the sheet won't make enough difference.
I'm not sure how many you'd need to stop the cold transfer.
I'd suspect somewhere around 5 or 10.

Cover the bed with a quilt and live with the room heat.
All the years we used a water bed I never noticed the room heat.

--
Dan Espen

[Bob F]

Try sheets of foam. You can probably get 4x8 sheets of 1/2" or 1/4" white
styrofoam at the hardware store or building supply store. Line the bottom and
sides with that, then use a thick comforter over the top (of her) to insulate
there. She's right, turning down the temp doesn't work. The bed just sucks the
heat out of you.

[Dan Espen]

"Bob F" <bobn...@gmail.com> writes:

Don't most water beds have enclosed bottoms? The one we had did.
Actually had pull out drawers. Point being, if the bottom is enclosed,
there's little or no heat loss into the room out of the bottom.

--
Dan Espen

[Stormin Mormon]

I'd put blankets over the water bed, during the day. Keep the heat in the bag.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Metspitzer" <Kilo...@charter.net> wrote in message news:a7f9q8tm1jtm1lqag...@4ax.com...

[John Grabowski]

*I had a waterbed decades ago. Instead of buying the expensive thermostat
for the waterbed heater at the time, I used a plug-in timer. With blankets
on top of the bed the losses were minimal and it was always the perfect
temperature at night for sleeping. I don't recall ever having a problem
with the room heating up too much.

[dadiOH]

Where is the temperature set for the heater and what is the room
temperature she feels is too hot?

The heater is heating the water in the bag so if the room is too hot the
heat is coming from the bag itself. Frankly, I can't imagine that
happening. We keep our water bed in the low 80s in the winter; in the
summer, the heater doesn't even function as the ambient temperature is
sufficiently high already.

Insulating the heater will do no good; the opposite, I imagine, as it will
just be on longer to maintain the bag temperature. About her only solutions
are to turn up the AC or lower the heater (bag) temperature.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[nestork]

The problem is that water removes heat from a body 15 times faster than
air. When you feel cold, it's because the RATE of heat loss from your
body is high. We're perfectly comfortable in 75 degree F air, but we'll
feel cold in 75 degree water until we get used to it because the rate of
heat loss to water is so much higher. Water sucks up heat like a
sponge. Once the blood vessels in our extremities (feet, hands) and
just under our skin contract to reduce heat loss, and our skin
temperature cools down to 75 deg. F, there's much less temperature drop
between our skin and the water, and so the rate of heat loss drops
precipitously. That's when we say "we've gotten USED TO the water
temperature", and it no longer feels cold to us.

In order to feel comfortable, your daughter is essentially making the
water temperature the same as her skin temperature. With no temperature
difference, there's no heat loss, and she doesn't feel cold. But, the
higher temperature of the water is resulting in heat loss to the room,
causing the room to warm up too much. It's like you have a 2000 pound
naked person laying on the floor in that room 24/7. The heat loss from
their body is sufficient to warm up the room.

I would buy an arctic sleeping bag, unzip it and lay it out flat on top
of the water bed bag. Then, make the bed up normally over that sleeping
bag. That will greatly reduce the heat loss from your daughter's body
to the water, and she won't feel cold even at lower water temperatures
in the bag. The insulation in the sleeping bag will reduce the rate of
heat loss from her body sufficiently so that she doesn't feel cold, even
with much lower water temperatures.

I've heard of two-person sleeping bags which you might consider buying
if it's a large bed.




--
nestork

[David L. Martel]

Juhn,

Ditto. And I turned the heater off in Summer. It was better than air
conditioning in my climate. Don't know what the mattress temp was but it was
cool but not cold.

Dave M.

[Y'all Gibbons]

"nestork" <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote in message news:nestork...@diybanter.com...

That's not a good idea.

[jamesgang]

On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:23:22 AM UTC-4, Metspitzer wrote:
> What would make a good insulating material for a water bed? My niece has a water bed. The heater from the water bed makes her room hotter than the rest of the house. I suggested that she take a blanket and put it under the fitted sheet and try to turn the heater down a few degrees. She says that even with the blanket, if she turns the heater down any the bed is too cold.

It's been a while since I had one but if my memory serves me I was able to lower the thermostat a few degrees by placing a thick blanket on the bed before putting the sheets on. Can't say I was ever very good about making it up though and I don't remember it making the room warmer. But it was just a bedroom and I didn't use it except at night. It might be worth trying a 1" thick piece of memroy foam under the sheets.

[Metspitzer]

It sounds like a really good idea to me. I have a duck down sleeping
bag I plan on trying.

[Y'all Gibbons]

"Metspitzer" <Kilo...@charter.net> wrote in message news:pfs9q81qqodsub0dt...@4ax.com...

This is a common problem . You should first check with the water bed mfr before trying out some half-baked theories posted online.

[Metspitzer]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:37:45 -0700, "Y'all Gibbons"

OK Lets hear your half-baked theory why a sleeping bag would not be a
good idea to use on a waterbed?

[gregz]

With an IR thermometer you could tell what you need. I would stay away from
the white foam. The green or pink extruded will insulate better and have
stronger support.

Greg

[Dan Espen]

One of the nice things about a water bed is the way you can set it to
the exact temperature you find comfortable.

If you're trying to insulate yourself from that temperature, something is
wrong.

This was all about the room heating up. The bed is normally at 86F,
your skin temperature. Shouldn't be much of a room heating issue there.

--
Dan Espen

[nestork]

It occurs to me that the OP could test how effective the sleeping bag
would be by simply spreading a sheet of bubble wrap onto the water bag
before making up the bead. The air bubbles in the bubble wrap would
make for good insulation, perhaps even better than that of the sleeping
bag. If his daughter feels warm sleeping on bubble wrap, then that
confirms that what's needed is better insulation between the body and
the water bag. If it wuz me, I would use two layers of bubble wrap with
bubbles to bubles so that you got the full thickness of the bubble wrap
as stagnant air insulation.




--
nestork

[Metspitzer]

I think bubble wrap would make better insulation, but I am not sure it
would be as comfortable as a blanket or sleeping bag. I may talk her
into giving that a try too.

Thanks

It has been a long time since I have seen any bubble wrap with the
small half dollar sized bubbles though. Most of the new packing
material has brick sized squares.

[Bob F]

Extruded styrene is probably hard to find in <1" thicknesses, and probably
unnecessary for this useage. There just isn't that much force. Even a bunch of
blue foam camping pads from the thrift shop might do it.

[Bob F]

That's right. Water beds are rocket science, and you cannot possibly use common
sense.

[Bob F]

dadiOH wrote:
> Metspitzer wrote:
>> What would make a good insulating material for a water bed?
>>
>> My niece has a water bed. The heater from the water bed makes her
>> room hotter than the rest of the house. I suggested that she take a
>> blanket and put it under the fitted sheet and try to turn the heater
>> down a few degrees. She says that even with the blanket, if she
>> turns the heater down any the bed is too cold.
>
> Where is the temperature set for the heater and what is the room
> temperature she feels is too hot?
>
> The heater is heating the water in the bag so if the room is too hot
> the heat is coming from the bag itself. Frankly, I can't imagine that
> happening. We keep our water bed in the low 80s in the winter; in the
> summer, the heater doesn't even function as the ambient temperature is
> sufficiently high already.
>
> Insulating the heater will do no good; the opposite, I imagine, as it
> will just be on longer to maintain the bag temperature. About her
> only solutions are to turn up the AC or lower the heater (bag)
> temperature.

She needs to insulate to keep the heat in the bed, not keep it away from her
body. That means insulating under and around the mattress, and above her and the
mattress.

[jamesgang]

I don't think you understand waterbeds. They are heated because your body can not raise the adjacent bed temp to a comfortable one. That's what happens in a normal bed, your body warms the layer next to up. A cold waterbed is a heat sink and it just sucks the heat from your body. By insulating under the fitted sheet and the waterbed you can lessen that effect. Allowing you to set the waterbed temp a little lower. Not a lot but a little bit. Most of the heat loss is going to be through the top as well. They are normally in pretty thick frames to deal with the weight. I would not really expect one to heat a room up a lot but they do have 400 or so watt heaters.

[Bob F]

I understand them perfectly. I used one for many years, and insulated it as I
described to lessen the bill of heating it. Some heat is lost through the bottom
and sides, and insulation will lessen this. More is lost through the top, and a
heavy comforter will lessen that. Any insulation, other than foam or such that
is mostly non-compressable between you and the mattress will compress, and you
will lose heat through it to the mattress if the mattress is cooler. Keeping the
mattress the same temp. and insulating over you and it was the best way I found
for lessening heat loss to the room.


Foam insulation betreen you and the mattress will drastically change the feel of
the mattress, and will probably tear before long.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On May 28, 10:32 am, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:

+1

Especially the part about the water bed making the room
heat up. I had one years ago and never saw any such
effect. The heater is small, a few hundred watts when it's
on, and the water gets heated to what? 90F or so?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 10:23:22 -0400, Metspitzer <Kilo...@charter.net>
wrote:

The only water bed I ever had was a "hybrid" - it was a foam "bowl"
with the water bladder in it - quite effective

[Metspitzer]

I don't have the answer to that at the moment. Some 20 years ago when
I had a water bed I kept the thing on 103. That may be because the
temperature sensor was not very sensitive.

[DD_BobK]

Isn't that if you're immersed in water?

[nestork]

DD_BobK;3071118 Wrote:
> On May 28, 8:35*am, nestork nestork.bea8...@diybanter.com wrote:-

> The problem is that water removes heat from a body 15 times faster
> than

> air. *When you feel cold, it's because the RATE of heat loss from your
> body is high. *We're perfectly comfortable in 75 degree F air, but

> we'll
> feel cold in 75 degree water until we get used to it because the rate
> of

> heat loss to water is so much higher. *Water sucks up heat like a
> sponge. *Once the blood vessels in our extremities (feet, hands) and

> just under our skin contract to reduce heat loss, and our skin
> temperature cools down to 75 deg. F, there's much less temperature
> drop
> between our skin and the water, and so the rate of heat loss drops

> precipitously. *That's when we say "we've gotten USED TO the water

> temperature", and it no longer feels cold to us.
>
> In order to feel comfortable, your daughter is essentially making the

> water temperature the same as her skin temperature. *With no
> temperature
> difference, there's no heat loss, and she doesn't feel cold. *But, the

> higher temperature of the water is resulting in heat loss to the room,

> causing the room to warm up too much. *It's like you have a 2000 pound
> naked person laying on the floor in that room 24/7. *The heat loss

> from
> their body is sufficient to warm up the room.
>
> I would buy an arctic sleeping bag, unzip it and lay it out flat on
> top

> of the water bed bag. *Then, make the bed up normally over that
> sleeping
> bag. *That will greatly reduce the heat loss from your daughter's body

> to the water, and she won't feel cold even at lower water temperatures

> in the bag. *The insulation in the sleeping bag will reduce the rate

> of
> heat loss from her body sufficiently so that she doesn't feel cold,
> even
> with much lower water temperatures.
>
> I've heard of two-person sleeping bags which you might consider buying
> if it's a large bed.
>
> --

> nestork-
> ---
> water removes heat from a body 15 times faster than air. ---

>
> Isn't that if you're immersed in water?

It is.

But, if you're laying on a water bed with nothing more than a blanket
and the top wall of the water bed bag between you and the water, your
body is going to lose heat through that minimal insulation to the water
15 times faster than if you were somehow suspended on air, or roughly 15
times as fast as if you were laying on a mattress.

If you were immersed in water, all of your skin would feel cold. On a
water bed, you just feel like you're laying on something cold.




--
nestork

[mike]

On 5/31/2013 10:24 AM, nestork wrote:
> DD_BobK;3071118 Wrote:
>> On May 28, 8:35*am, nestork nestork.bea8...@diybanter.com wrote:-

Warm Woman??

Turns out that the body is extremely sensitive to the temperature
of the water.
Had a girlfriend for a while. We couldn't find a temperature
for her waterbed that would allow us both to sleep comfortably.
And there's just so much that you can do in bed when not sleeping.

Turned out to be a deal-breaker. Bummer!!

[Stormin Mormon]

Wonder if there is some way to make a split bag water bed? Dual temp controls?

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.

"mike" <ham...@netzero.net> wrote in message news:kobg4n$teb$1...@dont-email.me...

[nestork]

Bob F;3069982 Wrote:
>
> She needs to insulate to keep the heat in the bed, not keep it away from
> her body. That means insulating under and around the mattress, and above
> her and the mattress.
>

No, she needs to insulate to reduce the rate of heat loss from her body
to the water.

Then, the bed won't feel cold to sleep on when she turns the temperature
of the water down.

And, a lower water temperature will reduce the ambient air temperature
in that bedroom, which is the problem the OP is trying to solve.




--
nestork

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 18:01:49 +0200, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:



>
>No, she needs to insulate to reduce the rate of heat loss from her body
>to the water.
>
>Then, the bed won't feel cold to sleep on when she turns the temperature
>of the water down.
>
>And, a lower water temperature will reduce the ambient air temperature
>in that bedroom, which is the problem the OP is trying to solve.

Usually both. In the winter, you don't necessarily want to heat the
room from the waterbed so you keep a blanket and maybe heavy bedspread
on it. Most people keep the water in the 85 to 90 degree range to
feel warm.