Trouble starting Honda generator
deuce
a couple of years old and has very low hours. I decided to drain the
fuel and refill with fresh fuel. It had sat for about a year. It
wouldn't start at first but I sprayed a shot of Gumout into the carb
bore and it started on the next pull. So I let it run for about 10
minutes and it ran beautifully. I decided to drain the carb so I
siphoned out must of the fuel in the tank, restarted the motor and
shut the fuel supply valve off. It ran for about three additional
minutes but instead of stumbling and dying like I expected it started
to backfire very loudly so I quickly turned it off. I thought maybe
some water had gotten into the fuel so I drained the sediment cup and
the carb bowl. I put some fresh fuel in the tank and tried to restart
it. It would start and run maybe 2 seconds, then backfire and die.
Thinking there still may be some water in the carb I redrained the
sediment cup and the carb bowl and tried to restart. Same thing, run,
backfire and die. I added a little Heet to the fuel, repeat drain and
restart - same thing. I'm thinking the original backfire episode may
have damaged something but before I tear into it further I thought I'd
solicit any experience anyone might have with a similar problem.
Thanks in advance.
Joe
Backfires often mean timing is off or a valve is sticking. Time to do
some serious mechanical diagnostics. Dig out your shop manual and
start checking. Good luck.
Joe
Oren
1.) Loosen the fuel tank cap a turn or so
or
2.) Remove the air filter
Will it then run?
3.) Pull the spark plug out and check for fouling
Clean the plug with a wire brush, emery cloth....
Will it then run?
Simple things first. Even check for a stuck choke.
Oren
>3.) Pull the spark plug out and check for fouling
Compare the plug to this color chart
http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm
Stormin Mormon
gas. Some ether sprayed on the air filter did the trick, and
it ran fine after that, with the old gas.
Since the wildcard is the carb service. Please consider pull
the float bowl off, and see if the metering jet is clogged.
My old Toro snow blower had some particles of black floating
in the gas. It repeatedly clogged the metering jet, until I
installed a fuel filter. I was very fortunate to have a fuel
filter on hand.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"deuce" <bob...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9v88q5hkpanqljli8...@4ax.com...
ransley
Backfire is usualy ignition related as in timing or the ignition
module failing or a sticking valve, you might pull the plug and ground
it then have some one pull the starter to see if its a weak spark
indicating the module. Sears has a 4$ inductive spark tester , it
looks like a writing pen you touch it to the plug wire when its
running it should show if its electrical by the missed firirng
pattern. A compression test might or might not reveal a bad valve.
Misfire-backfire was my ignition module and coil on several other
motors, I dont think its fuel related, on lawnmowers after you hit a
rock and stall it the timing can shift and cause missfiring, but a gen
cant be stalled like that. New engine oil like mobil 1 , and spray in
and kill the running motor with Fogging oil might free it up if its a
valve. That 4$ sears tester will pay for itself on future plug, coil,
wire issues on any motor, it just save me 250 on my car, a guy wanted
to replace what was not wrong, it was one 40$ coil.
tra...@optonline.net
Even if it did, my first suspicion would be that the carb is fouled.
But usually that doesn't lead to backfiring, just not starting. On
the other hand, the backfiring did start when you turned off the
gas. If it was timing related, a valve, etc, curious that it started
just when fuel was shut off. I suppose the float could be stuck open
flooding it badly.
After checking the spark plug condition and for spark, I'd pull the
carb and rebuild it. If you get a service manual it should be fairly
easy. By taking it apart, you can completely clean it and remove any
gunk. The rebuild kits are cheap, look on Ebay. I got one for a
Tecumseh engine for ~$12.
deuce
I understand all that's been said about backfiring causes but it's
hard for me to believe that turning off the gas did something that
caused the timing to be off which thus caused the backfiring.
The spark plug condition is good and the spark is also good. The gas
did have fuel stabilizer in it.
The backfiring occured when the fuel level had dropped very low, not
quite empty. Perhaps there was floating junk in the fuel and it got
into the carb only when the fuel dropped to a low enough level.
I think your tip to rebuild the carb will be the next step.
Joe
>snip<
Wire brush leaves metal marks on the plug porcelain. Sure way to kill
the plug. Pros use glass bead blasting. Plugs are cheap, always good
to have a couple of spares on hand. When the engine revives, a fouled
plug can often be put back in and burned clean. If that fails,
discard.
Joe
Oren
>Wire brush leaves metal marks on the plug porcelain. Sure way to kill
>the plug. Pros use glass bead blasting. Plugs are cheap, always good
>to have a couple of spares on hand. When the engine revives, a fouled
>plug can often be put back in and burned clean. If that fails,
>discard.
I haven't seen a plug media blasting bag since the late sixties. They
worked wonders. A few pushes on the bottom and the plug was clean.
Then re-gap the plug and install for more miles. Eventually you had to
replace the plugs, though.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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"Oren" <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
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Hustlin' Hank
Like others have said, change the plug first just to be sure.
Unlike what others have said, lean mixture can create a backfire
condition.
The generators that I have worked on that have sat for a year and
wouldn't start is almost 95% due to dirty carbs. The carb has to be
disassembled completely and EVERY passage clean. On a Honda, you'll
most likely need to get a small wire and run it thru the pilot jet
after removing the jet.
Also, drain all gas out of tank, check for rust. It will be a waste of
time to clean the carb is the tank is rusty.
Hank
LSMFT
Backfire can be caused by sticking exhaust valve, loose or slipped
timing or too much gas blowing through it into the muffler.
So, check the carb, check the timing, check the valves.
--
LSFT
Drive a little slower than the posted speed.......
And you too can become a fracking prick.
Goth...@webtv.net
It WILL damage the engine to some extent, and it is very flamable.
Do NOT use the stupid mormons advice about this!!
LSMFT
Maybe your flywheel key is broken.
--
LSMFT
Drive slower than the posted speed.............................
And you too can become a fracking prick..............
Oren
HOGWASH!
Ever see "ether" sprayed into a dragster engine, as it fires up?
Carb / ether spray has never damaged any of my engines. From mowers
to autos.
Brake cleaner spray if flammable, but never hurt my brakes systems.
,,," damage the engine to some extent." What extent?
Stormin Mormon
exclaimation points and loose vowels?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<Goth...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10027-4BA...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Oren" <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
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HeyBub
So what do you use "Starter Fluid" on if not a gasoline engine? A diesel? An
electric motor? A wind-up toy? Maybe your girlfriend's BOB
(battery-operated-boyfriend).
Inasmuch as "Starter Fluid" is sold at the auto-parts store, I can't imagine
there are that many cars that are powered by a clockwork mechanism where the
pendulum is difficult to get going...
Hustlin' Hank
> � � �Never, ever use starting fluid (or ether) on a gasoline engine!!
> It WILL �damage �the engine to some extent, and it � is very �flamable.
> Do �NOT use the stupid mormons advice about this!!
I doubt starter fluid will wash away much more oil than the regular
gasoline that is dispersed within the cylinder at EVERY intake
stroke.
Also, even if ti does, it is an unmeasurable amount. Starting fluid is
more of a test to determine if a problem is fuel, spark, compression.
Hank <~~~uses starting fluid occasionally
dpb
...
> So what do you use "Starter Fluid" on if not a gasoline engine? A diesel? ...
Certainly most commonly and what it (ether as a starting agent) was
developed for. But, many modern direct-start diesels are not intended
for its use, either, and certainly any w/ glow plugs or similar are
definitely on the "not to be used" list.
The biggest problem w/ gasoline engines is the possibility of the high
detonation pressures that they're not designed for. Diesels, otoh, do
have much higher compression but there are the above caveats even there...
--
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:46:16 -0500, Gothu...@webtv.net wrote:
> > Never, ever use starting fluid (or ether) on a gasoline engine!!
> >It WILL damage the engine to some extent, and it is very flamable.
> >Do NOT use the stupid mormons advice about this!!
>
> HOGWASH!
>
> Ever see "ether" sprayed into a dragster engine, as it fires up?
That is not ether. It is straight pump gas in a spray bottle.
> Carb / ether spray has never damaged any of my engines. From mowers
> to autos.
So you were lucky, that means it's never happened before or never will
happen right? Typical. Most people can't see past their own noses.
> Brake cleaner spray if flammable, but never hurt my brakes systems.
Because you're not spraying it at what amounts to a giant electronic
cigarette lighter...
> ,,," damage the engine to some extent." What extent?
To the extent that the connecting rod is sticking out the side of the
crankcase, for one.
An engine in perfect working order does not need starting fluid. If
you need starting fluid to get it running, it has MAJOR problems.
If you're forced to use it, it only takes a whiff to make a huge
difference. Idiots will unload an entire can of the stuff into the
engine.
Old diesels will make one heck of a clatter when they fire after a
shot of ether.
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> So what do you use "Starter Fluid" on if not a gasoline engine? A diesel? An
> electric motor? A wind-up toy? Maybe your girlfriend's BOB
> (battery-operated-boyfriend).
Starter fluid is primarily for getting diesels running in extreme cold
temperatures when it's not possible to plug in the block heater for a
couple hours prior to starting.
> Inasmuch as "Starter Fluid" is sold at the auto-parts store, I can't imagine
> there are that many cars that are powered by a clockwork mechanism where the
> pendulum is difficult to get going...
Hmm, an auto parts store sells it, therefore it must be okay to use on
your car... Extra points for use of 3rd grade logic.
If a car is so difficult to get going that you NEED starter fluid,
it's very very close to death.
Stormin Mormon
plug hole (my Dad's next door neighbor, trying to help my
Dad get his generator started.) Sadly, the generator piston
locked up. Dad bought another generator, and gave me the old
one. I broke it free with a big wrench on the flywheel nut.
Then, it started, ran for half a second, and threw a piston
rod and broke a hole thorugh the crankcase wall. I learned
to relube the cylinder wall by squirt in some two stroke oil
when a cylinder wall is dried by ether.
I also learned that spraying some ether on the air filter
will help balky generators start. I've done that several
times since then.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Hustlin' Hank" <nineb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:58a1e2e5-a9d2-4fa0...@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
ransley
If you refer to oil wash, use Either that comes with oil, mine has it,
and as far as you saying you have Major problems if you need Either,
Yea like No gas flow, just a minor temporary one.
ader...@gmail.com
Bill
> Lost compression. And no electricity to high tension wire. any suggestion?
Bill
> Lost compression. And no electricity to high tension wire. any suggestion?
hub...@ccanoemail.ca
>Lost compression. And no electricity to high tension wire. any suggestion?
: model ? age ?
: history - how many hours ? regular maintenance ?
... just sayin' .
John T.
Fred McKenzie
> Lost compression. And no electricity to high tension wire. any suggestion?
compression or spark.
You can get help at the "Smokstak" website, but you will need to provide
more information about your generator.
Reference <https://www.smokstak.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=152>
Fred
hdth...@gmail.com
> I have a Honda EB3000C generator with a Honda GX200 motor. It's only
> a couple of years old and has very low hours. I decided to drain the
> fuel and refill with fresh fuel. It had sat for about a year. It
> wouldn't start at first but I sprayed a shot of Gumout into the carb
> bore and it started on the next pull. So I let it run for about 10
> minutes and it ran beautifully. I decided to drain the carb so I
> siphoned out must of the fuel in the tank, restarted the motor and
> shut the fuel supply valve off. It ran for about three additional
> minutes but instead of stumbling and dying like I expected it started
> to backfire very loudly so I quickly turned it off. I thought maybe
> some water had gotten into the fuel so I drained the sediment cup and
> the carb bowl. I put some fresh fuel in the tank and tried to restart
> it. It would start and run maybe 2 seconds, then backfire and die.
> Thinking there still may be some water in the carb I redrained the
> sediment cup and the carb bowl and tried to restart. Same thing, run,
> backfire and die. I added a little Heet to the fuel, repeat drain and
> restart - same thing. I'm thinking the original backfire episode may
> have damaged something but before I tear into it further I thought I'd
> solicit any experience anyone might have with a similar problem.
> Thanks in advance.
Clare Snyder
particularly on a C.A.R.B. compliant motor.
trader_4
It's an old and mostly irrelevant thread, but given the description
and symptoms, sounds like some gunk from old fuel has fouled the carb
or other part of the fuel system. The poster implied that it had old fuel in it.
The carb may need to be disassembled and cleaned, they have cheap rebuild
kits available for common engines for ~$10 or less. Or a new carb, there
are chinese aftermarket ones for common engines that work.