Electrical--Attaching ground to metal box
Chris Herring
some junction boxes where the previous owner left exposed cable splices
(they were hiding in the insulation in the attic, sort of like "twisted"
Easter eggs :). I bought 2-gang metal boxes. I understand that the box needs
to be grounded.. What is the "best practice" for attaching the ground wire
to the box? One technique I have seen in the past is to mount a machine
screw to one of the holes in the side of the box, and to attach all of the
grounds to the screw, separated by washers and secured with a nut. That
seemed like a "pretty good" way to do it. I have also seen the ground wires
wire-nutted together, with a pigtail wrapped under one of the screws holding
the box to the framing, or wrapped under one of the cover screws.. That does
not seem "as good".. How would a professional do it? Does code explicitly
specify a procedure?
Regards,
Chris Herring
Joe Bobst
to the box? >>
FWIW you can buy preformed pigtails and boxes of green (grounding) screws. The
pros use these to quickly install the pigtail to the tapped hole provided in
the box, usually at ther bottom. Using green wire nuts, all the grounds can
then be tied together. Looks real neat when its done.
<< Does code explicitly specify a procedure >>
I'd pass on this to one of our journeyman. HTH
Joe
Wade Lippman
Metal boxes are grounded with a green screw or with a grounding clip. The
only actual code I know is that boxes must be provided with a means of
grounding; that implies that you have to use it, so your methods would not
qualify. (though switch and outlet boxes can be grounded through the device
if there is metal contact.)
I was taught that grounds had to be crimped rather than wire-nutted, but
those wirenuts with the pigtails are awfully handy. Do they meet code,
ANYONE?
Chris Herring
bottom is tapped (the one under the UPC sticker). I was confused before,
because I sort of expected to have a tapped hole but I could not find it
(insert "joke" here .... or "insert joke" here). I will go buy some green
grounding screws and pigtails.. that sounds like a reasonable way to do it.
Thanks!
Chris
"Joe Bobst" <jbo...@aol.comtosspam> wrote in message
news:20030610110442...@mb-m07.aol.com...
Thomas D. Horne
You splice the bonding jumper and ground wires to each other
mechanically, apply a wire nut, and attach the bonding jumper to the box
using a machine screw that has no other function. Best practice is to
use a coated green screw that has a conductive green paint on it to
resist corrosion and assure a permanent connection. You will find that
they fit very nicely in the pre tapped hole in the back of the box.
--
Tom
Eric Tonks
ground hole but no screw. Here in Canada all electrical boxes have the
ground screw installed ready to use, even plastic boxes.
"Thomas D. Horne" <hor...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3EE62FD7...@mindspring.com...
Wade Lippman
"Eric Tonks" <eto...@sunstorm.com> wrote in message
news:3ee65f73$0$619$a186...@authen.newsreader.visi.com...
> Are you guys telling me that electrical boxes in the US come with a
threaded
> ground hole but no screw. Here in Canada all electrical boxes have the
> ground screw installed ready to use, even plastic boxes.
>
And yeh, the last few metal boxes I bought came with ground screws.
Tom Pendergast
> Are you guys telling me that electrical boxes in the US come with a
> threaded ground hole but no screw. Here in Canada all electrical boxes
> have the ground screw installed ready to use, even plastic boxes.
To groung the plastic box? <g>
OK, just my .02 worth here: Unless you're just wiring a junction
box with -no- devices in it, there's no reason to attach ground
to the box itself. 99.99% of the switches or duplex receptacles
you buy have a ground screw that is part of the mounting bracket
for the device. IOW, when you screw the duplex into the box, you
make electrical contact, completing the grounding of the box.
Some folks apparently do it the -other- way, they wire the ground
to the box and skip the green screw on the device, which almost
accomplishes the same thing, but if you think about it, that way
leaves you ungrounded when the device is out of the box, which
isn't a good thing.
But to do -both-?, connect to the device -and- the box? No,
thanks. Double work (for nothing) -and- you're creating a mini
ground loop right there inside the box.
But that's just my opinion.
TP
--
PS: Yes, if you buy a round or square j-box, it looks like there are
4 holes in the back to mount the thing, but one of them is indeed
threaded for using a ground screw, if needed. I hardly ever use
metal old/new work boxes for switches or outlets, so I couldn't
tell ya.
Chris Herring
Today I encountered two unusual situations in my house:
(1) a plastic junction box with a metal cover. The cover is not currently
grounded. Should it be?
(2) A metal box mounted on a concrete wall in such a way that the tapped
ground hole cannot be used. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that this
is a junction box with no device installed. How would you ground that box?
Chris
"Tom Pendergast" <non...@yinzguys.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9396EE2EF98...@130.133.1.4...
Tom Pendergast
> Thanks to everyone for your replies..
>
> Today I encountered two unusual situations in my house:
>
> (1) a plastic junction box with a metal cover. The cover is not
> currently grounded. Should it be?
Nope. Same deal as when you screw the device into the box: as
soon as you screw the plate onto the metal frame of the device,
you establish ground continuity. If it's an outlet, you can
verify that by taking a voltage reading between the hot slot
(short one) and the cover. You should see 110V there, just
like you would by sticking the 2nd meter probe into the round
ground hole.
> (2) A metal box mounted on a concrete wall in such a way that the
> tapped ground hole cannot be used. Let's say, for the sake of
> argument, that this is a junction box with no device installed. How
> would you ground that box?
Probably just drill a hole somewhere in the side of it and use
a (self-tapping) sheet metal screw. Contrary to what you might
have been told, there is no "magic hoohoo" to the fact that the
screws are green, nor that they attach at a certain place on the
box. HTH.
TP
--
Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking.
There are too many people who think that the only thing
that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's
wrong is to get caught. - Congressman J.C. Watts
Chris Herring
> On 10 Jun 2003, Chris Herring wrote:
>
> > Thanks to everyone for your replies..
> >
> > Today I encountered two unusual situations in my house:
> >
> > (1) a plastic junction box with a metal cover. The cover is not
> > currently grounded. Should it be?
>
> Nope. Same deal as when you screw the device into the box: as
> soon as you screw the plate onto the metal frame of the device,
> you establish ground continuity. If it's an outlet, you can
> verify that by taking a voltage reading between the hot slot
> (short one) and the cover. You should see 110V there, just
> like you would by sticking the 2nd meter probe into the round
> ground hole.
I should have specified that the cover is a blank plate, i.e. there is no
device installed in the box. Should the cover be grounded in that case?
Sorry to be so picky. just want to make sure I do things correctly!
> > (2) A metal box mounted on a concrete wall in such a way that the
> > tapped ground hole cannot be used. Let's say, for the sake of
> > argument, that this is a junction box with no device installed. How
> > would you ground that box?
>
> Probably just drill a hole somewhere in the side of it and use
> a (self-tapping) sheet metal screw. Contrary to what you might
> have been told, there is no "magic hoohoo" to the fact that the
> screws are green, nor that they attach at a certain place on the
> box. HTH.
Yes, that helps.. thanks
Chris
Tom Pendergast
>
> "Tom Pendergast" <non...@yinzguys.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93978D4A88...@130.133.1.4...
>> On 10 Jun 2003, Chris Herring wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks to everyone for your replies..
>> >
>> > Today I encountered two unusual situations in my house:
>> >
>> > (1) a plastic junction box with a metal cover. The cover is not
>> > currently grounded. Should it be?
>>
>> Nope. Same deal as when you screw the device into the box: as
>> soon as you screw the plate onto the metal frame of the device,
>> you establish ground continuity. If it's an outlet, you can
>> verify that by taking a voltage reading between the hot slot
>> (short one) and the cover. You should see 110V there, just
>> like you would by sticking the 2nd meter probe into the round
>> ground hole.
>
> I should have specified that the cover is a blank plate, i.e. there is no
> device installed in the box. Should the cover be grounded in that case?
> Sorry to be so picky. just want to make sure I do things correctly!
As long as the wires inside are all safely connected, I wouldn't
be concerned. The main reason for the ground is safety for anybody
touching/using the thing, and it doesn't sound like it will be
getting a lot of activity <g> Again, just a note on what I would
do in that situation: Unless the box is very near an existing
outlet, I would slap a duplex in there, as you can usually never
have too many outlets. And of course as soon as you do that, you
are pulling the ground situation together.
Eric Tonks
contacts the cover plate/fixture screw so that any metal parts installed ON
the box are grounded.
"Wade Lippman" <tol...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:DFtFa.52$ta1...@news01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net...
Oscar_lives
Ground the plate. Otherwise a malfunction in the box could make the plate
"hot" and someone could get hurt.
Jeeze...
Tom Pendergast
> Ground the plate. Otherwise a malfunction in the box could make the
> plate "hot" and someone could get hurt.
Yeah, like that could really happen.
> Jeeze...
My little leg humping pet. I *own* you, loser. I say "jump"
you say "how high"?, I say "shit" you say "brown or green?, hard
or runny?" check out alt.obssion.never.pretty, and of course...
Sleep tight!
volts500
> OK, just my .02 worth here: Unless you're just wiring a junction
> box with -no- devices in it, there's no reason to attach ground
> to the box itself.
Yes, there is, moron. NEC Section 250.148(A) Metal boxes. "A connection
SHALL BE made between the one or more equipment grounding conductors and a
metal box by means of a grounding screw that shall be used for no other
purpose or a listed grounding device."
> 99.99% of the switches or duplex receptacles
> you buy have a ground screw that is part of the mounting bracket
> for the device. IOW, when you screw the duplex into the box, you
> make electrical contact, completing the grounding of the box.
Dishing out more misinformed advice Tom Poltergiest? That method (for
receptacles) hasn't been permitted by the NEC for at least 20 years. If
using that method, a "self-grounding" device must be used..........but
you've never _seen_ a self-grounding device before, heh Tom?
> Some folks apparently do it the -other- way, they wire the ground
> to the box and skip the green screw on the device, which almost
> accomplishes the same thing, but if you think about it, that way
> leaves you ungrounded when the device is out of the box, which
> isn't a good thing.
>
> But to do -both-?, connect to the device -and- the box? No,
> thanks. Double work (for nothing)
More misinformed advice. A metal box must have a pigtail from the equipment
grounding conductor to the box and the
device unless the device is self-grounding. Again, this has been a standard
requirement for many, many years. Lazy, dangerous fuck.
> -and- you're creating a mini
> ground loop right there inside the box.
You're so full of shit........mini ground
loop.......HAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA........what a dumbass you are.
> But that's just my opinion.
Just your _misinformed_ opinion........you don't know jack shit about
electrical work, and never will. Can't see the smoke from your house, heh
Tom?
>
> TP
> --
> PS: Yes, if you buy a round or square j-box, it looks like there are
> 4 holes in the back to mount the thing, but one of them is indeed
> threaded for using a ground screw, if needed. I hardly ever use
> metal old/new work boxes for switches or outlets, so I couldn't
> tell ya.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
volts500
> On 10 Jun 2003, Chris Herring wrote:
>
> > Thanks to everyone for your replies..
> >
> > Today I encountered two unusual situations in my house:
> >
> > (1) a plastic junction box with a metal cover. The cover is not
> > currently grounded. Should it be?
YES, or just replace it with a plastic one.
> Nope. Same deal as when you screw the device into the box: as
> soon as you screw the plate onto the metal frame of the device,
> you establish ground continuity. If it's an outlet, you can
> verify that by taking a voltage reading between the hot slot
> (short one) and the cover. You should see 110V there, just
> like you would by sticking the 2nd meter probe into the round
> ground hole.
>
> > (2) A metal box mounted on a concrete wall in such a way that the
> > tapped ground hole cannot be used. Let's say, for the sake of
> > argument, that this is a junction box with no device installed. How
> > would you ground that box?
>
> Probably just drill a hole somewhere in the side of it and use
> a (self-tapping) sheet metal screw. Contrary to what you might
> have been told, there is no "magic hoohoo" to the fact that the
> screws are green, nor that they attach at a certain place on the
> box. HTH.
Wrong again dumbass TP.......you're just a constant source of
misinformation, heh Tom Poltergiest? Sheet metal screws are NOT
acceptable....and the hex head machine grounding screws must be green. Hack
asshole. Green grounding clips are available for situations like that or
the OP can use a 1/8" masonry bit bit to drill out the concrete, carefully,
so as to avoid damaging the machine threads in the box.
volts500
"volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D8BGa.71866$cm4.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Tom Pendergast" <non...@yinzguys.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9396EE2EF98...@130.133.1.4...
>
>
> > OK, just my .02 worth here: Unless you're just wiring a junction
> > box with -no- devices in it, there's no reason to attach ground
> > to the box itself.
>
> Yes, there is, moron. NEC Section 250.148(A) Metal boxes. "A connection
> SHALL BE made between the one or more equipment grounding conductors and a
> metal box by means of a grounding screw that shall be used for no other
> purpose or a listed grounding device."
>
> > 99.99% of the switches or duplex receptacles
> > you buy have a ground screw that is part of the mounting bracket
> > for the device. IOW, when you screw the duplex into the box, you
> > make electrical contact, completing the grounding of the box.
>
>
> Dishing out more misinformed advice Tom Poltergiest? That method (for
> receptacles) hasn't been permitted by the NEC for at least 20 years. If
> using that method, a "self-grounding" device must be used..........but
> you've never _seen_ a self-grounding device before, heh Tom?
BTW dumbass TP, you've got it backasswards, as usual. If using a
self-grounding receptacle, the equipment grounding conductor is attached to
the metal box.......doing it your way results in _another_ code violation
because the equipment grounding continuity is interupted if/when the device
is removed.
Tom Pendergast
> Tom Poltergiest?
> You're so full of shit
> you don't know jack shit about
> Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
Followups: alt.obsession.never.pretty
Tom Pendergast
Tom Pendergast
Followups: alt.obsession.never.pretty
volts500
> On 14 Jun 2003, volts500 wrote:
> > "volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote...
>
> Talking to yourself?
>
> Followups: alt.obsession.never.pretty
>
> TP
Hey, hack pecker breath, fuck you. Keep posting you fucked up dangerous
electrical advice and I'll keep doggin' your sorry ass. Too bad that there
are laws that protect sorry sons-a-bitches like you.
Tom Pendergast
>
> "Tom Pendergast" <non...@yinzguys.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns939A4474EDF...@130.133.1.4...
>> On 14 Jun 2003, volts500 wrote:
>> > "volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote...
>>
>> Talking to yourself?
>>
>> Followups: alt.obsession.never.pretty
> Hey, hack pecker breath, fuck you. Keep posting you fucked up...
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
If Tom was just a plain troll it would not be a problem to just plonk him
and forget about it. Now Tom is a somewhat of a troll but he is speaking as
a electrican and give advise as one. He know just enough to get someone hurt
by his advise and really just loves to go over the limits of the NEC code
for fun. He may think it is funny but he is going to get someone hurt or
killed by playing this stupid game of his. I'm very please to see you watch
out for the newsgroup for this turkey in time is going to get some nice
people hurt. I'm very please to back you in anyway I can to keep someone
from getting hurt here.
If i can help with the correction of the dangerious stuff he states. i will
be happy to help out.
TURTLE
TURTLE
> On 14 Jun 2003, volts500 wrote:
>
> >
> > "Tom Pendergast" <non...@yinzguys.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns939A4474EDF...@130.133.1.4...
> >> On 14 Jun 2003, volts500 wrote:
> >> > "volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote...
> >>
> >> Talking to yourself?
> >>
> >> Followups: alt.obsession.never.pretty
>
> > Hey, hack pecker breath, fuck you. Keep posting you fucked up...
>
> Followups: alt.obsession.never.pretty
>
> TP
This is Turtle.
Please stop tring to get someone hurt here.
TURTLE
Tom Pendergast
> This is Turtle...
Tom Pendergast
> "Chris Herring"<cherring...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>(2) A metal box mounted on a concrete wall in such a way that the
>>tapped ground hole cannot be used. Let's say, for the sake of
>>argument, that this is a junction box with no device installed. How
>>would you ground that box?
> DON'T drill and tap a new hole on the box! It'll take ya forever if
> yer doin' a bunch of boxes.
Aren't you the guy who chastized -me- for putting more into the
question than was really there?? Funny, I don't see anything about
him doing "a bunch" of them.
> A lot of his information is inaccurate...if not dangerous.
Please enlighten us: What is dangerous about using a screw
in another location on the box to secure your ground wire?
Anxiously awaiting your reply. Have a nice day.
Tom Pendergast
>>On 14 Jun 2003, TrentŠ wrote:
>>> "Chris Herring"<cherring...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>(2) A metal box mounted on a concrete wall in such a way that the
>>>>tapped ground hole cannot be used. Let's say, for the sake of
>>>>argument, that this is a junction box with no device installed. How
>>>>would you ground that box?
>>> DON'T drill and tap a new hole on the box! It'll take ya forever if
>>> yer doin' a bunch of boxes.
>> Aren't you the guy who chastized -me- for putting more into the
>> question than was really there?? Funny, I don't see anything about
>> him doing "a bunch" of them.
> The CONCEPT was stupid!...even for ONE box.
In your humble opinion, of course.
> 1. He probably doesn't have a tap set. So he'll need to spend $20 or
> so to tap that ONE box that you want to harp on.
Nobody ever mentioned a tap set. BTW, for your solution: Does
he own a hammer drill to drill the concrete?
> 2. He probably doesn't know what size drill bit to use...in order to
> use the proper tap.
Nobody ever mentioned a tap set.
> 3. He probably doesn't know what type of thread he needs to tap.
Nobody ever mentioned a tap set.
> Besides the DIRECT cost, how much time do you think he might
> invest?...in travel and education.
Nobody ever mentioned a tap set.
> And, in regard to your post, I know that all of the above I mention is
> incorrect....because you didn't even suggest that he install the
> PROPER kind of hole for the screw. You suggested using a sheet metal
> screw. lol
Yes, it would work. Laugh all you want to, it would work.
> So...disregard all of the above! lol
That's easy enough.
> BTW...how's he gonna screw that sheet metal screw into the SIDE? On
> an ANGLE? That should make for a good wire connection! lol
He's going to screw it straight in, thanks for asking! It's
called a hex head. Tighten it down with a simple ratchet, crescent
wrench, box wrench, Gatorgrip, etc.
> Wait...maybe he can just drill a large hole on the opposite side...so
> that he can put the screwdriver thru that hole to the other side!
> THAT should put the screw square to the side.
He's going to screw it straight in, thanks for asking! It's
called a hex head. Tighten it down with a simple ratchet, crescent
wrench, box wrench, Gatorgrip, etc.
> Oh...what should he do with the pointed end that comes out of the
> side? Or does the pointed end go INSIDE the box?! lol
Pointed edge goes outside, just like the one you propose in the
back. Is this the part where you magically predict/project that
the box is totally encased? I must have missed that first time
through?
>>> A lot of his information is inaccurate...if not dangerous.
>> Please enlighten us: What is dangerous about using a screw
>> in another location on the box to secure your ground wire?
> The 'screw' thingee was not the only bad information.
Still waiting to see what was "bad" or "dangerous" about it.
So far, you've done nothing but share your own little inside
bad joke. Care to try again?
Chris Herring
specify" instead of "what is considered 'best practice'". If I summarize the
advice given so far, in that context, then here is what I have:
-metal boxes and covers must _always_ be grounded.
-It is necessary to use a green grounding screw, preferably in the tapped
hole provided in the box. But it is OK to use a "grounding clip" instead.
The majority of you suggest using a plastic junction box instead of a metal
one... But: I need to attach a couple of junction boxes to the sides of
trusses in the attic. Seems like the best way to mount them is "face up",
i.e. with the opening in the box pointing skyward. So the edge of the box
will be flush against the truss (2x4). All of the plastic boxes I have seen
(uh, at Home Depot) are designed for wall-plate covers that extend beyond
the edge of the box. Is there a plastic box/blank faceplate combo available,
with a flush-fitting faceplate? (picky? me??)
RE the metal boxes mounted on concrete: I have quite a few of them (12) and
they are already attached to the wall. I did not drill clearance holes for
the grounding screws. Hmm.. drilling a clearance hole with the box in place
sounds tricky.. Will have to think about whether I want to remove them (and
deal with the inevitable tapcon screw that will refuse to come out) or get
grounding clips..
Thanks again for all the advice.
Chris
"Chris Herring" <cherring...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Ro6cnRrixaC...@comcast.com...
volts500
> I realize now that I should have phrased my question as "what does the NEC
> specify" instead of "what is considered 'best practice'". If I summarize
the
> advice given so far, in that context, then here is what I have:
>
> -metal boxes and covers must _always_ be grounded.
Yes.
> -It is necessary to use a green grounding screw, preferably in the tapped
> hole provided in the box. But it is OK to use a "grounding clip" instead.
Yes.
> The majority of you suggest using a plastic junction box instead of a
metal
> one... But: I need to attach a couple of junction boxes to the sides of
> trusses in the attic. Seems like the best way to mount them is "face up",
> i.e. with the opening in the box pointing skyward. So the edge of the box
> will be flush against the truss (2x4). All of the plastic boxes I have
seen
> (uh, at Home Depot) are designed for wall-plate covers that extend beyond
> the edge of the box. Is there a plastic box/blank faceplate combo
available,
> with a flush-fitting faceplate? (picky? me??)
A bit picky, usually a regular blank plastic wall-plate cover is used in
that case.
> RE the metal boxes mounted on concrete: I have quite a few of them (12)
and
> they are already attached to the wall. I did not drill clearance holes for
> the grounding screws. Hmm.. drilling a clearance hole with the box in
place
> sounds tricky..
Actually its not as difficult as it sounds if you use an 1/8" masonry bit.
Remember that the grounding screw is only about a 1/4 inch long.....and the
thickness of the box and wire is going to take up some of that.......so the
hole doesn't have to be very deep. I've done it many times in commercial
work where the person before me didn't accommodate for the screw......works
great, for me anyway. Besides, you can always use a grounding clip if you
screw up the hole (yes, every once in a while I do mess one up.)
>Will have to think about whether I want to remove them (and
> deal with the inevitable tapcon screw that will refuse to come out) or get
> grounding clips..
Another trick is to loosen up the tapcons just a bit, install the ground
screw and the grounding wire, then tighten the tapcons back up. This, of
course, results in the box a bit cocked, but depending on where it's
installed, it may or may not matter........if it matters, sometimes smacking
the ground screw with a hammer will dig the screw into the concrete, then
check the screw for tighness......depends on how hard the concrete is. You
can use a 5/6" nut driver and hit it with a hammer to lessen (possible)
damage to the screw. Or a shim can be used as a spacer to even up the box.
Again, if you screw it up you can always use a green grounding clip
available at just about any store that sells electric supplies.
volts500
> >>> "Chris Herring"<cherring...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>(2) A metal box mounted on a concrete wall in such a way that the
> >>>>tapped ground hole cannot be used. Let's say, for the sake of
> >>>>argument, that this is a junction box with no device installed. How
> >>>>would you ground that box?
>
> >>> DON'T drill and tap a new hole on the box! It'll take ya forever if
> >>> yer doin' a bunch of boxes.
>
> >> Aren't you the guy who chastized -me- for putting more into the
> >> question than was really there?? Funny, I don't see anything about
> >> him doing "a bunch" of them.
>
> > The CONCEPT was stupid!...even for ONE box.
>
> In your humble opinion, of course.
>
> > 1. He probably doesn't have a tap set. So he'll need to spend $20 or
> > so to tap that ONE box that you want to harp on.
>
> Nobody ever mentioned a tap set. BTW, for your solution: Does
> he own a hammer drill to drill the concrete?
No, YOU never mentioned a tap set, YOU wanted to _hack_ it with a
self-drilling sheet metal screw, remember?
> > 2. He probably doesn't know what size drill bit to use...in order to
> > use the proper tap.
>
> Nobody ever mentioned a tap set.
We know, Tom Poltergiest, tap sets aren't found in a hack's tool box.
> > 3. He probably doesn't know what type of thread he needs to tap.
>
> Nobody ever mentioned a tap set.
>
> > Besides the DIRECT cost, how much time do you think he might
> > invest?...in travel and education.
>
> Nobody ever mentioned a tap set.
We know what your tap set consists of.........a self-drilling sheet metal
screw.
> > And, in regard to your post, I know that all of the above I mention is
> > incorrect....because you didn't even suggest that he install the
> > PROPER kind of hole for the screw. You suggested using a sheet metal
> > screw. lol
>
> Yes, it would work. Laugh all you want to, it would work.
OK, hackster. If your going to be a hack, by all means be a good hack!
Why not just loop the wire through one of the holes in the box like a _real_
hack would do, or under the screw for the cover.......damn waste of sheet
metal screws, heh Tom Poltergiest?
> > So...disregard all of the above! lol
>
> That's easy enough.
>
> > BTW...how's he gonna screw that sheet metal screw into the SIDE? On
> > an ANGLE? That should make for a good wire connection! lol
>
> He's going to screw it straight in, thanks for asking! It's
> called a hex head. Tighten it down with a simple ratchet, crescent
> wrench, box wrench, Gatorgrip, etc.
You really _are_ a moron! Good way to get laughed off the job. Have fun
getting it started you nit wit.......oh, that's right, you're going to
pre-drill for a self-drilling sheet metal screw, heh dumbass?
> > Wait...maybe he can just drill a large hole on the opposite side...so
> > that he can put the screwdriver thru that hole to the other side!
> > THAT should put the screw square to the side.
>
> He's going to screw it straight in, thanks for asking! It's
> called a hex head. Tighten it down with a simple ratchet, crescent
> wrench, box wrench, Gatorgrip, etc.
>
> > Oh...what should he do with the pointed end that comes out of the
> > side? Or does the pointed end go INSIDE the box?! lol
>
> Pointed edge goes outside, just like the one you propose in the
> back. Is this the part where you magically predict/project that
> the box is totally encased? I must have missed that first time
> through?
Pointed edge goes outside, jest like th' one yo' propose in th' back. Shet
mah mouth! Is this hyar th' part whar yo' magically predick/projeck thet th'
box is mighty incased? ah muss haf missed thet fust time through?
> >>> A lot of his information is inaccurate...if not dangerous.
Can't see the smoke from your house, eh TP?
> >> Please enlighten us: What is dangerous about using a screw
> >> in another location on the box to secure your ground wire?
Shall we count the threads that you've posted dangerous advice just in this
NG or in other ones too? Just the crap that you post in one day or a week?
Just electrical or HVAC also? For me, the "Best of TP's dumbass remarks"
has to be the neutral to the condensing unit.......where _does_ that neutral
get landed oh great sparky?????????? The copper pipe in the fused
disconnect trick was a close second..........HEY! Let's drive a separate
ground rod for the telephone primary protector and _not_ bond it to the
electric service grounding electrode system...........cause you don't know
and you're scerd, eh Tom Poltergiest? You know, smoke that guy's modem!
That electricity is some scarry shit, heh TP? Then there is that stupid
drivel about a fused disconnect being dangerous........to dumbfucks like
you, probably is. Shall I post the Google references for all to see?
> > The 'screw' thingee was not the only bad information.
>
> Still waiting to see what was "bad" or "dangerous" about it.
If you have to ask this question, you _definitely_ should not be doing
electrical work or giving electrical advice. Ever heard of a piss poor
connection and the arcing that it causes? Oh, that's right, YOU won't be
there if/when _that_ happens. Did it ever occur to you that a crappy
grounding connection can cause the breaker not to trip in a ground fault
condition? The NEC doesn't just up and make up rules for no reason. Hack
asshole.
Tom Pendergast
>
> "Tom Pendergast" <non...@yinzguys.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns939B5B0B07...@130.133.1.4...
>> On 14 Jun 2003, TrentŠ wrote:
>> > Tom Pendergast <non...@yinzguys.com> wrote:
What's your point?
CBHvac
Your bald little head?
Hack
Tom Pendergast
> TP Wrote:
>> What's your point?
> Your bald little head?
BWA HA HAA HA HAAAA! Another one of my little leg humping pets
checks in! Wassamatter, loser? You miss me?
You jealous old farts get over my pictures yet? Still drooling
over my ex-wife? Still jealous that I've done 3-ways and 4-ways
in my life?
Let me guess: You define "sex" as "three beers and a b.j."?
*Four* beers (1 for her) if you're in a loving mood!
And you *wonder* why she mumbles in her dreams about killing you
while you sleep one of these nights?
Just for the record -- when's the last time you've been within a
mile of a gorgeous petite woman who's shaved and *loves* sex???
I didn't think so! BWA HAAAAA HAA HA HAA!
Go to bed tonight and give that mess of a wife you have a good
swift kick in her hairy old fat ass, ok?
Write back when you can! Ta ta!
Oscar_lives
> On 15 Jun 2003, CBHvac wrote:
> > TP Wrote:
>
> >> What's your point?
>
> > Your bald little head?
>
> BWA HA HAA HA HAAAA! Another one of my little leg humping pets
> checks in! Wassamatter, loser? You miss me?
>
> You jealous old farts get over my pictures yet? Still drooling
> over my ex-wife? Still jealous that I've done 3-ways and 4-ways
> in my life?
>
> Let me guess: You define "sex" as "three beers and a b.j."?
> *Four* beers (1 for her) if you're in a loving mood!
>
> And you *wonder* why she mumbles in her dreams about killing you
> while you sleep one of these nights?
>
> Just for the record -- when's the last time you've been within a
> mile of a gorgeous petite woman who's shaved and *loves* sex???
>
> I didn't think so! BWA HAAAAA HAA HA HAA!
>
> Go to bed tonight and give that mess of a wife you have a good
> swift kick in her hairy old fat ass, ok?
>
> Write back when you can! Ta ta!
>
>
> TP
When is the last time you had sex with someone who wasn't a little boy?
Tom Pendergast
> 1. Sheet metal screws are self-taping (if that's what you want to
> call it...I don't) in SHEET metal. You can spin that sucker 'til your
> drill starts to smoke...and yer not gonna start that screw into that
> box...without starting a pilot hole first.
I *SAID* to drill a hole first. Go look it up a few posts ago.
And I don't know how to break it to you, but the metal used
for boxes is *very* soft, witness the fact that you can bend a
knockout back and forth a few times and break it.
As much as your know-it-all attitude won't let you believe it,
this is as true as the sky is blue: Drill a slightly undersized
pilot hole, use a sheet metal screw, and it *WILL* self-tap. It
*WILL* hold tight, Mr. Peabody.
Doug Miller
>On 15 Jun 2003, TrentŠ wrote:
>
>> 1. Sheet metal screws are self-taping (if that's what you want to
>> call it...I don't) in SHEET metal. You can spin that sucker 'til your
>> drill starts to smoke...and yer not gonna start that screw into that
>> box...without starting a pilot hole first.
>
> I *SAID* to drill a hole first. Go look it up a few posts ago.
>
> And I don't know how to break it to you, but the metal used
> for boxes is *very* soft, witness the fact that you can bend a
> knockout back and forth a few times and break it.
>
> As much as your know-it-all attitude won't let you believe it,
> this is as true as the sky is blue: Drill a slightly undersized
> pilot hole, use a sheet metal screw, and it *WILL* self-tap. It
> *WILL* hold tight, Mr. Peabody.
And it WON'T meet code. What's your point?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
Oscar_lives
"Doug Miller" <spam...@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:dd9Ha.3897$87.26...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
His point is that he is a hack and he doesn't know what he is talking about
and his advice is worthless.
People could get killed or hurt if they follow his advice.
HACK
Thund3rstruck
<Xns939BD388DAF...@130.133.1.4>:
<Silly bragging snipped>
1) What does your alleged sexual history have to do with this topic?
2) Most people that brag about their 'experiences' are making it up.
That said, back to the topic.
3) Have you ever had to straighten out a 'hack job'?
I have. 3 wires, all black. Multiple runs. If you (in general) are going
to work on something, you (in general) should do it right the first time.
4) NEC codes were written for a reason, and need to be followed for the
best safety possible.
Lets say you had kids (No, no perverted comment intended). Would you want
them around something that could hurt, maybe kill them? 99% of the people
out there will say "no". If you (in general) do not follow the NEC codes,
someone could get hurt if something went wrong. (We all know how Mr. Murphy
is.)
NOI
Tom Pendergast
> 3) Have you ever had to straighten out a 'hack job'?
Of course.
> I have. 3 wires, all black. Multiple runs. If you (in general) are
> going
> to work on something, you (in general) should do it right the first
> time.
Apples and oranges.
> 4) NEC codes were written for a reason, and need to be followed for
> the best safety possible.
And a "hack" can use the equipment specified by NEC and do it with
poor workmanship. Results = unsafe job. What's your point?
> Lets say you had kids (No, no perverted comment intended). Would you
> want
> them around something that could hurt, maybe kill them?
And a wire grounded in compliance with NEC "could hurt, maybe kill
them" as well.
I really -love- the argument on here about the non-grounded metal box
cover! Let's see...I tightly twist a wire nut onto each unstripped
conductor, and I physically bend those conductors into the box so
that they are nowhere near sticking out and touching the cover.
What is it going to take to:
1) Physically knock that wire nut from the black wire?
2) Make it move/bend out to a point where it touches the cover?
Hmmmmm....Maybe an earthquake? A *BIG* earthquake? Let's just
say that when that BIG earthquake comes, there are going to be
much bigger problems than my wire nut working itself loose and
the wire migrating to touch the front cover.
And sorry to repeat myself, but my hex head screw in my drilled
hole *IS* going to hold the ground wire attached to the box.
Can the hack who doesn't know enough about workmanship to loop
the wire in a clockwise direction and/or tighten the screw down
nice and tight say the same thing?
Go pick your nits with somebody else. If it's unsafe, I agree
100% with you, but you're talking things "going wrong" which
simply aren't going to happen.
CBHvac
> On 15 Jun 2003, CBHvac wrote:
> > TP Wrote:
>
> >> What's your point?
>
> > Your bald little head?
>
> BWA HA HAA HA HAAAA! Another one of my little leg humping pets
> checks in! Wassamatter, loser? You miss me?
Nope...but dont expect me to stop riding your postings either...
I just thought it was funny...deal with it baldy..
>
> You jealous old farts get over my pictures yet? Still drooling
> over my ex-wife? Still jealous that I've done 3-ways and 4-ways
> in my life?
Dont really care..just for the record....and that wasnt you in those
perverted pics...however, you can continue to dream about it.
>
> Let me guess: You define "sex" as "three beers and a b.j."?
> *Four* beers (1 for her) if you're in a loving mood!
>
I dont drink loser boy.
> And you *wonder* why she mumbles in her dreams about killing you
> while you sleep one of these nights?
Funny..
You still wonder why shes your EX after that time she walked in and caught
you with that underaged one?
>
> Just for the record -- when's the last time you've been within a
> mile of a gorgeous petite woman who's shaved and *loves* sex???
Shes sitting here now...for the record...but then, I dont go do stupid shit
and post pics of my family...
>
> I didn't think so! BWA HAAAAA HAA HA HAA!
thought wrong...as always..
>
> Go to bed tonight and give that mess of a wife you have a good
> swift kick in her hairy old fat ass, ok?
>
Hard to do there Tommy Pedo...
> Write back when you can! Ta ta!
>
Some of us work for a living Tommy...ya old wanna be Sparky...
>
> TP
> --
> Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking.
> There are too many people who think that the only thing
> that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's
> wrong is to get caught. - Congressman J.C. Watts
Big hands and all huh?
>
TakeThisOut
<trent...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>The CONCEPT was stupid!...even for ONE box.
>
>1. He probably doesn't have a tap set. So he'll need to spend $20 or
>so to tap that ONE box that you want to harp on.
>
>2. He probably doesn't know what size drill bit to use...in order to
>use the proper tap.
>
>3. He probably doesn't know what type of thread he needs to tap.
>
>Besides the DIRECT cost, how much time do you think he might
>invest?...in travel and education.
>
>And, in regard to your post, I know that all of the above I mention is
>incorrect....because you didn't even suggest that he install the
>PROPER kind of hole for the screw. You suggested using a sheet metal
>screw. lol
>
>So...disregard all of the above! lol
>
>BTW...how's he gonna screw that sheet metal screw into the SIDE? On
>an ANGLE? That should make for a good wire connection! lol
>
>Wait...maybe he can just drill a large hole on the opposite side...so
>that he can put the screwdriver thru that hole to the other side!
>THAT should put the screw square to the side.
>
>Oh...what should he do with the pointed end that comes out of the
>side? Or does the pointed end go INSIDE the box?! lol
Could just drill & tap through the side from the outside in.
But wouldn't a ground clip suffice?
>
>>> A lot of his information is inaccurate...if not dangerous.
>>
>> Please enlighten us: What is dangerous about using a screw
>> in another location on the box to secure your ground wire?
>
>The 'screw' thingee was not the only bad information.
>
>> Anxiously awaiting your reply.
>
>I'm sure 'anxiously' was the correct choice of words!
>
>
>
>Have a nice week...
>
>Trent
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TAKETHISOUT budysbackagain(@)THAT TOO a-oh-ell dot com
Thund3rstruck
> Go pick your nits with somebody else. If it's unsafe, I agree
> 100% with you, but you're talking things "going wrong" which
> simply aren't going to happen.
If that's what you want to believe, then fine. Things 'go wrong' every
day. Houses settle. The ground moves a little. Why risk it?
Like I said earlier. The NEC is there for a specific reason.
NOI