Which end of roof tv antenna toward station
Jimw
instructions. I know how to mount it and connect the coax, but I do
not recall which end points toward the tv station transmitter.
I know the UHF elements are the smaller ones and the VHF are the
larger ones. But which end goes toward the station? Here is a crude
drawing (below).
\\\\\\
->>>>>>>>>-
//////
You'd think there would be a diagram on the web, but I sure can not
find one. They should mark it right on the antenna but they dont.
Jimw
1D10T
"Jimw" <ji...@mail.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:s1bnv4hhgo94gfhd0...@4ax.com...
>I bought a used rooftop tv antenna at a garage sale so there are no
> instructions. I know how to mount it and connect the coax, but I do
> not recall which end points toward the tv station transmitter.
>
> I know the UHF elements are the smaller ones and the VHF are the
> larger ones. But which end goes toward the station? Here is a crude
> drawing (below).
>
> \\\\\\
> ->>>>>>>>>-
> //////
Todd
Get yourself a "low noise amplifier" for the mast of the antenna.
It will really improve your reception. Radio Shack has some.
tn...@mucks.net
The longest elements are always the back side of the antenna.
Tony Hwang
Basically, there are multi element on a boom. Shorter element side
should point to the station. Short element is called director, longer
one is called reflector. The more elements, the more gain.
stan
>
> - Show quoted text -
The more elements it has the more 'pointy' or directional the antenna
will be!
In other words, using a multi element antenna, if the antenna is
pointed directly at one station, another station, off say 30 degrees
to one side in direction, may not be received at all
If signals are weak an antenna with more elements generally has more
'gain' (From the ONE desired direction!).
HeyBub
Forget theory. Which direction gets the best reception?
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
in the illustration provided by the OP, the station should be to the
left of the antenna.
stan
>
> - Show quoted text -
Definitely also true.
But you may get someone who has no technical background putting up an
antenna which does not work for the several stations (in different
directions from their particular location) that they wish to receive.
And then gets into a song and dance about how it is the same antenna
that works OK for his brother in law (who lives in a different
location of course!).
OR "The salesman 'said' this was the best one for this
area ................." and so on ....... !
All without reference to any understanding about basic technical
facts.
Also there will always be the people who achieve perfectly
satisfactory TV reception with a broken off coat hanger jammed in top
of the set in place of the uni-pole antenna that broke off ten years
off when they were moving house. Provided that is the cat does not
perch on top of the sofa; just 'there'.
"Hon: Shoo the cat off the sofa will you? I want to watch this guy
pitch .....! "
We ran into a situation once, long before the advent of cable TV here,
whereby the owner used to pour hot water over his antenna connections
to wash off the sea salt spray. It worked!
Another guy in same community got best signal if he pointed his
antenna off line, it is still my opinion that by doing so with his
particular antenna he was avoiding a strong second signal (in favour
of the direct signal) reflected from the metal cladding of the local
fish processing plant!
Ah yes; but reflected FM and TV signals was how the British discovered
radar before WWII! Ever notice how a TV picture sometimes goes 'all-
wavery' if/when a plane flies over?
As previous posters have said indicated it IS a combination of
technology and local conditions. But starting with 'pointy' end
towards the TV station is best way to start.
cshenk
> Jimw wrote:
>> not recall which end points toward the tv station transmitter.
> Forget theory. Which direction gets the best reception?
LOL! Ya beat me to it! Until I saw folks taking this seriously I was kinda
thinking it was a joke post. Must be a 'man thing' there ;-)
Real method, put up antenna but don't bolt tight yet. Turn antenna bit bit
by bit until the best location is determined. Tighten bolts so it stays
there.
harry k
Yes and a cheap set of walkie talkies works best to determine where
the best reception is. Partner watches TV while other one turns mast.
Harry K
Tony Hwang
Yeah! And add to it, height matters too. The higher the better is not
really the case. You gotta hit the sweet spot height wise.
tn...@mucks.net
>Hi,
>Yeah! And add to it, height matters too. The higher the better is not
>really the case. You gotta hit the sweet spot height wise.
Huh? Height gain is real and exist for all frequencies. The only
time excess height will work against you is when your feed line losses
outweigh you height gain. You'll have to go very high for this to
happen on TV frequencies. There is no sweet spot unless you
are somehow physically obstructed.
aemeijers
of the neighbors have those 'flying saucer' omni antennas, with built-in
amps, but I'm not sure how well they work, and I'd have to rewire the
coax a tad (move the splitters inside) so as to not put any DC into the
satt receiver, which they do not like. I suppose I should try to catch
one of said neighbors out working in their yard, and ask what stations
they get. The web sites say I'm too far away from the xmitters for an
omni, but they always are conservative in their estimates. To put up a
real fringe antenna with a rotator, I'd either have to kill a tree, or
move the pole to other end of house.
--
aem sends...
Tony Hwang
From the days when I was active in telecommunications engineering,
I was trying to capture long distance TV relay signal, guess what?
I could only get a decent stable signal at certain height on the tower.
Lower or higher the signal disappeared. Had numerous instances like this
on VHF, UHF, troposcatter, microwave repeater installations. Retired in
'96 after spending my whole life in the field and been a ham since my
boyhood as well.
Class of '60, EE.
VE6CGX
bob haller
not necessarily true. radio waves (tv waves) are like waves on a pond,
in places they add to make larger waves......... in other places they
cancel one another.
So you can go higher and get worse results
Bob M.
news:kgYKl.4590$0S....@newsfe22.iad...
Real method? Hardly. Get an antenna rotator, a small motor that mounts on
the mast. The control is near the TV so you can move the antenna from
inside.
Bob M.
news:s1bnv4hhgo94gfhd0...@4ax.com...
> instructions. I know how to mount it and connect the coax, but I do
> not recall which end points toward the tv station transmitter.
>
> I know the UHF elements are the smaller ones and the VHF are the
> larger ones. But which end goes toward the station? Here is a crude
> drawing (below).
>
> \\\\\\
> ->>>>>>>>>-
> //////
>
It's called a Yagi antenna, very common in ham radio. The narrow end points
toward the TV station's antenna; the wide end is the "back" of the antenna,
the reflector.
David Nebenzahl
I just did exactly this for one of my clients a couple days ago: I
climbed on roof, grabbed antenna and moved it while she went inside and
checked TV, came out and said "Better!" or "Worse!" until it was
optimal. (Fortunately, she only watches one TV station for the most
part, making it easy to adjust.)
I hate climbing on roofs, by the way.
--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself
- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)
cshenk
"cshenk" <cshe...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Real method, put up antenna but don't bolt tight yet. Turn antenna bit
>> bit
>> by bit until the best location is determined. Tighten bolts so it stays
>> there.
> Yes and a cheap set of walkie talkies works best to determine where
> the best reception is. Partner watches TV while other one turns mast.
I've actually done that! Charlottesville VA, 105 Deerwood Drive.
Most of the times though we just opened a window and hollard out it.
cshenk
> "cshenk" wrote
>>>> not recall which end points toward the tv station transmitter.
>>
>>> Forget theory. Which direction gets the best reception?
>>
>> LOL! Ya beat me to it! Until I saw folks taking this seriously I was
>> kinda thinking it was a joke post. Must be a 'man thing' there ;-)
>>
>> Real method, put up antenna but don't bolt tight yet. Turn antenna bit
>> bit by bit until the best location is determined. Tighten bolts so it
>> stays there.
> Real method? Hardly. Get an antenna rotator, a small motor that mounts on
> the mast. The control is near the TV so you can move the antenna from
> inside.
Um, Bob, if he had that sort of fancy setup, he wouldnt be asking with
direction to point it in ;-)
HeyBub
Height is not the case with satellite TV. Lower is better.
Up/down has no effect on reception, but having the dish at shoulder height
makes aiming easier and removal of snow, leaves, and bird nests a cinch. For
these reasons, lower is better.
1D10T
> "Bob M." wrote
>> Real method? Hardly. Get an antenna rotator, a small motor that mounts
>> on the mast. The control is near the TV so you can move the antenna from
>> inside.
>> "cshenk" wrote>
> Um, Bob, if he had that sort of fancy setup, he wouldnt be asking with
> direction to point it in ;-)
Um, cshenk, Bob didn't say he had that sort of fancy setup. He said "*get*
an antenna rotator".
aemeijers
>
Not everyone can spare that kind of money every month, especially these
days. And even if you can, a roof antenna as a backup is still a good
idea. (not to mention Dish still doesn't offer local channels in all
markets.)
--
aem sends...
tn...@mucks.net
wrote:
Then you must be misinterpreting what is going on. Height is never
detrimental to an antenna unless line losses come into play.
tn...@mucks.net
wrote:
>On May 2, 12:46?pm, t...@mucks.net wrote:
>> >Hi,
>> >Yeah! And add to it, height matters too. The higher the better is not
>> >really the case. You gotta hit the sweet spot height wise.
>>
>> Huh? Height gain is real and exist for all frequencies. The only
>> time excess height will work against you is when your feed line losses
>> outweigh you height gain. You'll ?have to go very high for this to
>> happen on TV frequencies. There is no sweet spot unless you
>> are somehow physically obstructed.
>
>not necessarily true. radio waves (tv waves) are like waves on a pond,
>in places they add to make larger waves......... in other places they
>cancel one another.
>
>So you can go higher and get worse results
This in ONLy true when the antenna is only a few wavelength from the
ground. At best with a perfectly reflecting ground plane, that doesn't
exist, you may expect a 6db maximum gain at these additive reflection
distances, however this perfect ground planer does not exist and
height can easily give greater gains than 6db.
Tony Hwang
Line loss on what? Hard coax, nitrogen charged waveguide have very low
loss and SWR is near 1 to 1. Explain then why signal disappears when
height is lowered.
Noise level is more important than signal level when dealing with
terrestrial signal.(-90db range)
tn...@mucks.net
>> Then you must be misinterpreting what is going on. Height is never
>> detrimental to an antenna unless line losses come into play.
>Hi,
>Line loss on what? Hard coax, nitrogen charged waveguide have very low
>loss and SWR is near 1 to 1.
Standard TV coax is on subject. It does have losses that should be
considered.
>Explain then why signal disappears when
>height is lowered.
In theory (doesn't exist in this case) e fields can cancel or be
additive at different heights.
>Noise level is more important than signal level when dealing with
>terrestrial signal.(-90db range)
Maybe you forgot that the subject is a TV antenna. No nitrogen
charged wave guide. No hard coax. This is a TV antenna. A TV
antenna is a multiple frequency antenna unlike the ones you seem to
be referring to. A TV antenna does not have radial ground wires buried
in the ground like broadcast antennas to enhance signal gain.
No sweet spot exist for multiple frequency antennas like TV
antennas over normal ground. A TV antenna can not take advantage
of ground reflections because there are no buried radials, and even if
it had buried radials how can you find a sweet spot for the entire
frequency range of the antenna? Raise and lower it when
you change channels?
Tony Hwang
One more and I am out. Is there a theory for TV antenna and another for
microwave? On theory we use isopole or dipole in free space usinf
reference dbi or dbd.
Rudy
>>> not recall which end points toward the tv station transmitter.
>> Forget theory. Which direction gets the best reception?
I have the same type antenna. a bunch of horizontal "V" s (looks like the
'feathers end; of an arrow with a smaller Vertical "V" at the "arrow" end.
I put in one of the "new" Antenna adapters and it gave me good reception on
14 "locals" with the "pointy end" aimed at the mountain where 3-4
transmitters are. There was one "local" I couldn't get (CBS) facing that
way so I turned it around, with the smaller vertical "V" pointing that way.
I got the missing "local" and the signal strength went up on 5 of the
channels but I lost 3 other less desirable locals (WB CW etc)..
cshenk
> "cshenk" wrote
>> "Bob M." wrote
>>> Real method? Hardly. Get an antenna rotator, a small motor that mounts
>>> on the mast. The control is near the TV so you can move the antenna from
>>> inside.
>
>>> "cshenk" wrote>
>> Um, Bob, if he had that sort of fancy setup, he wouldnt be asking with
>> direction to point it in ;-)
>
> Um, cshenk, Bob didn't say he had that sort of fancy setup. He said "*get*
> an antenna rotator".
LOL, ok, ya got me. Should have read better. I wonder what such run now in
cost? Not relevant me but curiousity. We never had one as a kid.
tn...@mucks.net
wrote:
>tn...@mucks.net wrote:
>>>> Then you must be misinterpreting what is going on. Height is never
>>>> detrimental to an antenna unless line losses come into play.
>>> Hi,
>>> Line loss on what? Hard coax, nitrogen charged waveguide have very low
>>> loss and SWR is near 1 to 1.
>>
>> No sweet spot exist for multiple frequency antennas like TV
>> antennas over normal ground. A TV antenna can not take advantage
>> of ground reflections because there are no buried radials, and even if
>> it had buried radials how can you find a sweet spot for the entire
>> frequency range of the antenna? Raise and lower it when
>> you change channels?
>Hi,
>One more and I am out. Is there a theory for TV antenna and another for
>microwave? On theory we use isopole or dipole in free space usinf
>reference dbi or dbd.
Theory and reality are very different. In reality microwaves compared
to vhf/uhf waves behave differently when hitting earth ground.
In reality microwaves react differently when it comes to traveling
around the curvature of the earth. In reality microwaves dissipate
differently in air. In reality microwaves use different feed lines. In
reality microwaves are a single frequency. In reality attributing
theory or microwaves to explain a TV antennas behavior is not reality.
1D10T
> LOL, ok, ya got me. Should have read better. I wonder what such run now
> in cost? Not relevant me but curiousity. We never had one as a kid.
I haven't looked into a rotator yet; not even sure if they're even available
anymore. I just built this one:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joearnold/3399193845/
from instructions in a youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw
It does work quite well, but seems very directional. I made a second one and
paralleled them; facing 45� apart. Much better, but I think I now need to
mess with different heights. I'm in a remote area, with transmitters
averaging 40 miles away. Getting 13 digital channels, but still need to get
a consistent PBS feed.
Red Green
news:443d02d3-409e-41db...@s1g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
walkie talkies?
With all the cell phones these days...
And most landline cordlesses come with multiple phones.
Stormin Mormon
Living in a trailer, my TV is right next to the antenna
mast. I turn the TV around so it faces the window. then I
can rotate the antenna and watch the screen at the same
time.
If I wasn't Mormon, I could also drink a beer, fart, smoke a
cigarette, and pee on the skirting at the same time. Redneck
heaven!
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Red Green" <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns9C0462AB...@216.168.3.70...
Pat
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Walkies don't use up your cell minutes.
>
> Living in a trailer, my TV is right next to the antenna
> mast. I turn the TV around so it faces the window. then I
> can rotate the antenna and watch the screen at the same
> time.
>
> If I wasn't Mormon, I could also drink a beer, fart, smoke a
> cigarette, and pee on the skirting at the same time. Redneck
> heaven!
Mormon's can't fart? That alone is a good reason not to be a
Mormon ;-)
I thought the Jews had it bad with circumcision, but not farting --
that's beyond the pale. That's got to cause you some pain. I bet you
don't eat chili, either.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> "Red Green" <postmas...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
Red Green
$agp$1...@news.motzarella.org:
>
> If I wasn't Mormon, I could also drink a beer, fart, smoke a
> cigarette, and pee on the skirting at the same time. Redneck
> heaven!
>
> --
>
You poor bastard. You should gets a chek for dat. Ask anyone around where I
am.
Jose
> I bought a used rooftop tv antenna at a garage sale so there are no
> instructions. I know how to mount it and connect the coax, but I do
>
> larger ones. But which end goes toward the station? Here is a crude
> drawing (below).
>
> \\\\\\
> ->>>>>>>>>-
> //////
>
> You'd think there would be a diagram on the web, but I sure can not
> find one. They should mark it right on the antenna but they dont.
>
> Jimw
use the end that brings in the most channels.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Red Green" <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns9C0580FCC...@216.168.3.70...
Stormin Mormon
go in to the hospital twice a year, and have our fart
surgically removed. As you can guess, it's not covered by
our tithing. We have to pay for it out of pocket. Oy, it
would be so much easier to snip and be done with it for the
rest of your life. I hope nobody believes a word of this
post! It was fun to write, though.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:bd088dd5-15c7-46f9...@r13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
Steve Barker
Tman
Thanks for a simple answer
--
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