"green plug" power saving device, do they work?

[John Winn]

Hello Group,
I was in Home Depot the other day and they had a big display of these
devices that claim to save energy by cutting down the power by load of the
device. They had small plug in units up to a large 300.00 model for the
home air conditioner..Do these work or are they a gimmick?? Thanks for any
imput!!! John

[rm]

yes, they really do work. I have a very old (30 year old) Sears
freezer. With the Green-plug installed the compressor runs noticably
quieter.

From what I understand, the green plug provides a 'pseudo sine wave'
and essential puts out a chopped sine wave. By supplying full-current
at motor start-up, then backing off to a chopped sine wave (take a
standard ac sine wave and cut out the transitons, leaving the upper
and lower peaks).

Thus the motor gets full current for startup and reduced current when
running, to save electricity and make the motor run quieter and
cooler.... there's something else about matching the power factor of
the motor and perhaps brownout protection, but I'm not sure.

[Dave Lord]

Somebody (I think Consumer Reports) tested them awhile back and determined
that they were of no value on newer refrigerators. They helped on older
refrigerators but the magazine claimed that the old refrigerators were so
inefficient that it was more cost effective to get a new model than to use a
Green Plug.

Dave

rm <.@.com> wrote in message <37de8395.17772402@philproxy>...

[Mike Hartigan]

Could it be that it is inffective on the newer refrigerators because
this 'green-plug' circuit has already been generically designed into the
appliance in an attempt to increase efficiency? Also, what is the cost?
Does it really save energy, or just quiet the motor down? If so, how
much?  Are there any negative consequences of using it? Could I get a
220V version for my A/C compressor? How about the pool filter? (I'm
assuming it is designed for electric motors)

Dave Lord recently enlightened us with:

> Somebody (I think Consumer Reports) tested them awhile back and determined
> that they were of no value on newer refrigerators. They helped on older
> refrigerators but the magazine claimed that the old refrigerators were so
> inefficient that it was more cost effective to get a new model than to use a
> Green Plug.

> rm <.@.com> wrote in message <37de8395.17772402@philproxy>...

>>yes, they really do work. I have a very old (30 year old) Sears
>>freezer. With the Green-plug installed the compressor runs noticably
>>quieter.
>>
>>From what I understand, the green plug provides a 'pseudo sine wave'
>>and essential puts out a chopped sine wave. By supplying full-current
>>at motor start-up, then backing off to a chopped sine wave (take a
>>standard ac sine wave and cut out the transitons, leaving the upper
>>and lower peaks).
>>
>>Thus the motor gets full current for startup and reduced current when
>>running, to save electricity and make the motor run quieter and
>>cooler.... there's something else about matching the power factor of
>>the motor and perhaps brownout protection, but I'm not sure.
>>
>>
>>"John Winn" <jonjo...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>Hello Group,
>>>I was in Home Depot the other day and they had a big display of these
>>>devices that claim to save energy by cutting down the power by load of the
>>>device. They had small plug in units up to a large 300.00 model for the
>>>home air conditioner..Do these work or are they a gimmick?? Thanks for
> any
>>>imput!!! John
>>>
>>>
>>

--
+-----------------------------------------------+
Mike Hartigan <hart...@enteract.dot.com>

Why is it always the guy with the moustache and three twenty
dollar bills in his hatband?

[John Winn]

Hello Mike,
In the display they had I think four different models ranging from I think
40.00 for the refridgerator/freezer one, then they had two bigger ones that
looked like breaker boxes, one was for pool filter motors and the biggest
one was for big central air conditioners..The last two were the ones I was
interested in because here in Austin Tx our elec. is about 250.00 a month in
the summer!!! They sound really wonderful if they work, but hard to choke
up 300.00 to find it doesn't...John

[Greg Fretwell]

The green plug corrects the power factor of lightly loaded motors. You
notice they always demonstrate with a bare motor. There is very luittle
to no help on a properly sized motor and with some "design E" high
efficiency motors they actually waste energy.
Greg

[Phil Caskey]

Greg Fretwell <JRF...@prodigy.com> wrote in message
news:7rmgc2$17co$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...

I don't know anything about these green plugs, but taking Greg's word for it
they won't save money on your electric bill.

A typical residential electric meter turns the same if the power factor is
0.5 (really bad) or 1.0 (perfect). The meter measures kWh only, and the
power factor is measured in kVArh (actually, it's usually measured in kQh
and converted to kVArh, but who really cares).

Phil

[Daniel Hicks]

John Winn wrote:
>
> Hello Group,
> I was in Home Depot the other day and they had a big display of these
> devices that claim to save energy by cutting down the power by load of the
> device. They had small plug in units up to a large 300.00 model for the
> home air conditioner..Do these work or are they a gimmick?? Thanks for any
> imput!!! John

No, they don't work, except for some special cases (which their display
of course concentrates on). A properly-sized motor will not benefit
from one of these things, and might actually be damaged by it.

[Mariam Rasheed]

On Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:00:00 AM UTC, John Winn wrote:
> Hello Group,
> I was in Home Depot the other day and they had a big display of these
> devices that claim to save energy by cutting down the power by load of the
> device. They had small plug in units up to a large 300.00 model for the
> home air conditioner..Do these work or are they a gimmick?? Thanks for any
> imput!!! John

hi, these plugs work i gurantee. but they will not work on air conditioner. but on all electric motors.
it will reduces your load upto 20%
you can purchase from www.ilmpower.tk

[Duesenberg]

I read that your company supports Al Queda and supports Iran's Nuclear
program. Is this a fact?

[bud--]

They are a scam.

What a surprise. Who would have thought a post (actually 5 posts) from a
1999 thread that apparently links to a territory of New Zealand would be
a scam?

This is another version of the power factor correction capacitors to
correct for 'reactive power' in motors. For residential customers they
essentially do nothing because the utility does not bill for reactive
power - only true power, watts. The website doesn't understand or is
dishonest: "causing the home to require less electricity from the
utility". Change is negligible.

"Reduces you load up to 20%"? It may reduce your current and volt-amps.
You are not billed for that - only watts.

The device would also be useless for industrial customers that pay a
utility penalty for 'reactive power'. You need to change the pf
correction capacitors to match the 'reactive power'. I didn't want to
waste the time to look, but I really doubt the magic box does that.

The same kind of scam appears here occasionally. One of them is
Powersave 1200.

--
bud--

[Hell Toupee]

On 3/8/2012 8:48 AM, Mariam Rasheed wrote:

They won't work, I guarantee. And so does my local electric utility.
Because they theoretically correct power factor, but residential
customers are not billed by power factor.

FOAD, scammer.

[gregz]

I have used, and am using one right now on my whole house fan, only to help
reduce the speed. It's said that most newer refrigerators have it built in.
When you put one on a refrigerator, it will also slow down the fans. You
only want to reduce the current on the compressor. All they do is control
current by controlling voltage. They are supposed to supply high start up
current, then back off. I had one on a chest freezer for many years. I had
one on a garage fridge until it went bad.
I would have to check out the link, but I am referring to green plug. They
stopped making it years ago, as sold as green plug.

Greg

[gregz]

This ilmpower device is a power factor corrector. Read here.

http://www.nlcpr.com/Deceptions1.php

Greg

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Mar 8, 11:36 pm, gregz <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
> gregz <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

In the first post you say you're using one and it works.
In the next, you post a link that says the power factor
correction devices are a scam.

[gregz]

I said I was using one according to the title of the post, GREEN PLUG. I
still have a couple left. A green plug goes in series with a device. A
power factor plug is not connected to a appliance directly.

Greg

[Congoleum Breckenridge]

>
> This ilmpower device is a power factor corrector. Read here.
>
> http://www.nlcpr.com/Deceptions1.php
>
> Greg

http://www.lmphotonics.com/energy.htm

[Congoleum Breckenridge]

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/home/tech_life_nola.html

[bud--]

On 3/9/2012 7:50 PM, Congoleum Breckenridge wrote:
> On 3/9/2012 8:47 PM, Congoleum Breckenridge wrote:
>>>
>>> This ilmpower device is a power factor corrector. Read here.
>>>
>>> http://www.nlcpr.com/Deceptions1.php
>>>
>>> Greg

The spammer device is power factor correction capacitors. It is a scam
as several people have said, and that is also what the link above says.

>>
>> http://www.lmphotonics.com/energy.htm

This is for a "Nola device", which is entirely different (but also
raises power factor). It is probably what gregz has, but he is not very
clear. This is a very interesting, but somewhat technical, discussion.
The bottom line is that a "Nola device" is only worthwhile in quite
limited circumstances and the savings are nowhere near what is commonly
claimed.

Nice link.

>
> http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/home/tech_life_nola.html

Also for the "Nola device" which was developed by a NASA employee and I
believe was licensed under a NASA patent. This link claims potential
savings that are likely at odds with the analysis above. The analysis
above looks accurate to me.

--
bud--

[tra...@optonline.net]

Good post. If these things did work, and produced meaningful'
results you'd think there
would be volumes of test data proving it from independent labs,
universities, etc. How hard is it to do? Just hook up a freezer,
furnace blower, etc and test. I have yet to see any that show
they save anything for the typical motors encountered in homes.
And if they produce results you would think it would be easy
to get the EPA onboard as they are trying to reduce energy
in everything.

[Twayne]

In news:jjebsd$50p$1...@speranza.aioe.org,
Congoleum Breckenridge <conb...@home.com> typed:

At the most, it would save a penny or two on a residential application.
Anyone claims otherwise is lying/crazy.

[gregz]

I think if you search around, the green plug types, are not to be used with
more modern refrigerators, since they are already installed in the energy
saving models. That's what I read. Slowing down condenser fans is also not
good, as well as circulation fans.

One of these days I'm going to buy one of those power monitors. I would
like to test some things, including my green plugs.

Greg

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Mar 11, 10:46 pm, gregz <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Maybe you should have done that before you bought
multiple "green plugs". If they work, where are the test
reports from any credible lab, university, etc that shows
it?

[gregz]

gregz <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> On Mar 10, 10:10 am, bud-- <remove.budn...@isp.com> wrote:
>>> On 3/9/2012 7:50 PM, Congoleum Breckenridge wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/

1992 was the year they started using energy savers on refrigerators.
After that year, a green plug should not be used.

I spent half an hour searching diagrams, yet I have not come up with any
good info on anything. I either see a board, or no board. Perhaps they
started making compressors differently. I'll keep looking.

Greg

[gregz]

Perhaps you did not read the NASA reports.

The fact they started installing the circuits in appliances, suggest they
work.
I bought all my green plugs from surplus, probably electronic goldmine, in
the early 90's .
The fact they slow down motors, suggest they work. The fact that motors and
compressors, still start, suggest they work. I could measure current, but
they didn't have that inexpensive meter, 20 years ago. The green plugs,
were labeled as to what appliance they would be used for.

20 years ago I started using cfl's and green plugs, trying to save
electricity.

Greg

[tra...@optonline.net]

The NASA report link has no data, no hard facts, just
fluff. And it appears it's a NASA spinoff, which would
seem to imply that a profit motive is involved. Where is
the data?

>
> The fact they started installing the circuits in appliances, suggest they
> work.

Maybe someone hijacked your account, but the previous
post under your name was this:

" spent half an hour searching diagrams, yet I have not come up with
any
good info on anything. I either see a board, or no board. Perhaps
they
started making compressors differently. I'll keep looking. "

> I bought all my green plugs from surplus, probably electronic goldmine, in
> the early 90's .
> The fact they slow down motors, suggest they work. The fact that motors and
> compressors, still start, suggest they work. I could measure current, but
> they didn't have that inexpensive meter, 20 years ago. The green plugs,
> were labeled as to what appliance they would be used for.
>
>  20 years ago I started using cfl's and green plugs, trying to save
> electricity.
>

> Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

When you have some real data on this miracle technology
let us know.....

[gregz]

The original green plug probably cost $ 40-50 ?
Got some of mine less than 10 bucks.
I had one fail hooked up to garage fridg. That can happen with triacs.
I also read others users had failures.

>> The fact they started installing the circuits in appliances, suggest they
>> work.
>
> Maybe someone hijacked your account, but the previous
> post under your name was this:
>
> " spent half an hour searching diagrams, yet I have not come up with
> any
> good info on anything. I either see a board, or no board. Perhaps
> they
> started making compressors differently. I'll keep looking. "
>
>
>
>
>
>> I bought all my green plugs from surplus, probably electronic goldmine, in
>> the early 90's .
>> The fact they slow down motors, suggest they work. The fact that motors and
>> compressors, still start, suggest they work. I could measure current, but
>> they didn't have that inexpensive meter, 20 years ago. The green plugs,
>> were labeled as to what appliance they would be used for.
>>
>> 20 years ago I started using cfl's and green plugs, trying to save
>> electricity.
>>
>> Greg- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> When you have some real data on this miracle technology
> let us know.....

Old data is hard to find or nonexistent. I found one link to Georgia power
tests, but does not work. They originally said up to thirty % savings. I
can vouch for that.

That said, the refrigerator company's started using them in 1993 . Green
plug company went out of business, but it appears the circuitry continued.
It looks like 1993 refrigerators took a 30 % drop in power consumption that
year.

One problem with green plug add on, it was costly, didn't work well with
fancy refrigerators as an add on, because they also slowed down the fans.
they needed to feed only the compressors.

I found an interesting site. I don't think green plug circuity is used much
in newer refrigerators. Most of the savings is in newer compressor systems,
and more insulation. From 1993 to now, there has been another, up to 40%
drop in power.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/refrigerators.html

Greg

[gregz]

The term green plug can mean different things. The original green plug
company went out of business 20 years ago. There is a new green plug
company making a smart outlet strip. Green plug, or power, can also refer
to these power factor devices.

The op was right, green plug might mean anything.

Greg

[bud--]

>> Maybe you should have done that before you bought
>> multiple "green plugs". If they work, where are the test
>> reports from any credible lab, university, etc that shows
>> it?
>
> Perhaps you did not read the NASA reports.

Perhaps you did not read the detailed analysis in the link above the
NASA link.

>
> The fact they started installing the circuits in appliances, suggest they
> work.

Is that the Nola (NASA) device?

> I bought all my green plugs from surplus, probably electronic goldmine, in
> the early 90's .

Are they the Nola device? They work and were surplus? (I really have no
idea if what you bought works.)

> The fact they slow down motors, suggest they work. The fact that motors and
> compressors, still start, suggest they work.

The Nola (NASA) device does not slow motors. Not obvious what any of the
devices you refer to are or how they are supposed to work. Slowing
motors may be the same as what is commonly done with furnaces. I can not
imagine doing that with a refrigerator.

--
bud--

[gregz]

They work but were problematic as an add on.

>> The fact they slow down motors, suggest they work. The fact that motors and
>> compressors, still start, suggest they work.
>
> The Nola (NASA) device does not slow motors. Not obvious what any of the
> devices you refer to are or how they are supposed to work. Slowing motors
> may be the same as what is commonly done with furnaces. I can not imagine
> doing that with a refrigerator.

I don't know how close to the Nola device my green plugs are. They simply
reduce the voltage and current to the motor after start up. I guess it
depends on the motor type and conditions. As I have said, I've used them on
fans to reduce the speed. It will reduce the fans speed in the
refrigerator. They are motors. Large motors tend to operate at one speed.

Greg

[broy...@gmail.com]

Some thoughts:

1) If a refrigerator compressor and fan speed are reduced, that doesn't mean it uses less energy, as it may then need to run longer to keep the interior at the desired temp, and running longer uses up any gains from running at a lower speed.

2) This might be a good idea with a motor that tends to overheat, though, if you could only slow the compressor, and not the fans. You could also point an external fan at the cooling fins. This might keep your fridge working until you can replace it.

3) A dimmer switch is a less expensive way to reduce the speed on a standalone fan. I use them on a couple of my fans.

[jdsc...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, September 14, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, John Winn wrote:
> Hello Group,
> I was in Home Depot the other day and they had a big display of these
> devices that claim to save energy by cutting down the power by load of the
> device. They had small plug in units up to a large 300.00 model for the
> home air conditioner..Do these work or are they a gimmick?? Thanks for any
> imput!!! John

orignal post over 20 years ago! They were actually made in USA ! not China...what a concept. Here is something that I tested...3 speed fans. Using a device that measures, Voltage, Amps, Watts, power factor (and more)... the results for the 3 speed fan was 30,32,35 watts. low, medium,
high. Watt (pun) this means is that the fan hardly uses anymore powere at high speed then low. Run it at any speed comfortable, as the cost is only pennies a month different.!