Do I need a larger portable generator for power outages?

[Nick Cine]

1. I have a portable ~5KW DuroMax XP5500EH generator.
2. It runs the home during power outages
3. But it trips its own 30Amp circuit breaker on the water pressure
booster pump subcircuit due to the surge inrush current I guess.

I can run everything else that I want to run (refrigerator, lights,
microwave, even a 1500 watt portable space heater) with that generator.

What confuses me is the inrush sink would happen, it seems to me, no
matter how large the generator is, right? Or not right?

When I flip on the main panel circuit for the booster pump during an
outage while the house is otherwise being powered by the portable
generator, the ~5KW portable generator bogs down momentarily, and then.
suddenly the quick-blow 30-amp circuit breaker on the generator trips.

I'm confused whether or not a larger generator would solve this problem of
the booster pump surge inrush current tripping the generator's breakers.

Would it?
Maybe not?

The "Maybe Not" part is that the portable generator is tripping on "too
much current", which is an indication that it's supplying more than the
30 amps that cause the breaker on its own panel to trip, right?

Or would a larger portable generator solve the surge current trip issue?

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 20 Feb 2024 23:09:10 -0700, Nick Cine

<nick...@is.invalid> wrote:

>1. I have a portable ~5KW DuroMax XP5500EH generator.
>2. It runs the home during power outages
>3. But it trips its own 30Amp circuit breaker on the water pressure
> booster pump subcircuit due to the surge inrush current I guess.
>
>I can run everything else that I want to run (refrigerator, lights,
>microwave, even a 1500 watt portable space heater) with that generator.
>
>What confuses me is the inrush sink would happen, it seems to me, no
>matter how large the generator is, right? Or not right?
>
>When I flip on the main panel circuit for the booster pump during an
>outage while the house is otherwise being powered by the portable
>generator, the ~5KW portable generator bogs down momentarily, and then.
>suddenly the quick-blow 30-amp circuit breaker on the generator trips.

I don't know much about this but I thought a slo-blow breaker was used
in situations like this. Why not here?

[Clare Snyder]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 23:09:10 -0700, Nick Cine <nick...@is.invalid>
wrote:

When the generator "bogs down" the voltage drops, but the "power"
drawn by the starting pump remains constant.Same power, lower voltage=
more current - so yes, a larger generator SHOULD eliminate the trip by
holding voltage under load. Not sure how much bigger you would need,
but a 50amp rated genset SHOULD do the job.
Your genset is only a 18 amp output in the real world (at 240 volts)
It is a 4500 watt generator that can hold 5500 watts for a couple of
seconds AT MOST. Generally the "surge rating" is only good for
starting things like tungsten lamps that have an extremely high but
short inrush current.

[hub...@ccanoemail.com]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 09:27:01 -0500, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

There's this one, at a nearby auction, that might do the trick :

https://bowmanauctions.hibid.com/lot/186754470/60kw-single-phase-240v-diesel-generator-on-cart?ref=catalog

John T.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <ur4427$dec6$1...@solani.org>, nick...@is.invalid says...

>
> 1. I have a portable ~5KW DuroMax XP5500EH generator.
> 2. It runs the home during power outages
> 3. But it trips its own 30Amp circuit breaker on the water pressure
> booster pump subcircuit due to the surge inrush current I guess.
>
> I can run everything else that I want to run (refrigerator, lights,
> microwave, even a 1500 watt portable space heater) with that generator.
>
> What confuses me is the inrush sink would happen, it seems to me, no
> matter how large the generator is, right? Or not right?
>
>
>

How much current is that pump rated for ?

How much of a load do you have running when the pump is started up ?

[Frank]

I have similar problems and it appears problems can happen with too many
things running or starting at the same time. Did not realize I was
tripping breakers until after power came back and some things not coming
back on.

https://www.generatorjoe.net/html/wattageguide.html

[Dean]

Could you possibly replace the motor with one that is capacitor start? That might help.

[Bob F]

If it's larger enough.
You could try starting the pump with everything else disconnected.
Why do you need a booster pump? Just deal with low pressure.

[Scott Lurndal]

Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> writes:
>On 2/20/2024 10:09 PM, Nick Cine wrote:
>> 1. I have a portable ~5KW DuroMax XP5500EH generator.
>> 2. It runs the home during power outages
>> 3. But it trips its own 30Amp circuit breaker on the water pressure
>> booster pump subcircuit due to the surge inrush current I guess.

>> Or would a larger portable generator solve the surge current trip issue?
>
>If it's larger enough.
>You could try starting the pump with everything else disconnected.
>Why do you need a booster pump? Just deal with low pressure.

Zero pressure isn't much use.

In my case, my well water is pumped into a holding tank
at the same elevation as the house. The pressure pump
provides full pressure to the house. Without electricity,
once the pressure tank that the pump pressurizes equalizes,
there is no water at all.

[Bob F]

That doesn't sound like what I know of as a booster pump. Sounds like a
pump. In any case, trying to start one pump while another is running,
along with other loads boosts the needed surge capacity of a generator.

[hub...@ccanoemail.com]

That's my routine when I'm running on generator < Honda 5000 >
Leave everything OFF except the well pump ; let my neighbour know
to run his supply of water < he's off my well > ; run a goodly
supply of water for drinking ; run 4 - 5 inches into the bathtub for
toilet flushing ; turn OFF the well pump ; turn everything else ON.
The only problem - and it hasn't happened yet - is if all the
main appliances tried to start at the same time - furnace blower,
fridge, freezer, sump pump, with other small loads on - it might
overload the little Honda ..
No stoves or laundry or A/C but it sure is a nice luxury
to have what that little generator provides during an outage.
John T.

[Scott Lurndal]

Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> writes:
>On 2/21/2024 12:25 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 2/20/2024 10:09 PM, Nick Cine wrote:
>>>> 1. I have a portable ~5KW DuroMax XP5500EH generator.
>>>> 2. It runs the home during power outages
>>>> 3. But it trips its own 30Amp circuit breaker on the water pressure
>>>> booster pump subcircuit due to the surge inrush current I guess.
>>
>>>> Or would a larger portable generator solve the surge current trip issue?
>>>
>>> If it's larger enough.
>>> You could try starting the pump with everything else disconnected.
>>> Why do you need a booster pump? Just deal with low pressure.
>>
>> Zero pressure isn't much use.
>>
>> In my case, my well water is pumped into a holding tank
>> at the same elevation as the house. The pressure pump
>> provides full pressure to the house. Without electricity,
>> once the pressure tank that the pump pressurizes equalizes,
>> there is no water at all.
>>
>
>That doesn't sound like what I know of as a booster pump.

His is tripping a 30A circuit. It's not a small pump, must
be at least 2HP.

[Bob F]

As I suggested before, The pump and what else?

He never said anything about that.

[Bob F]

Any pump using 30A must be a 230V pump. That's a big pump.

If it's 115V pump, he should re-wire it for 230V if that is an option.

[Dean]

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 12:09:18 AM UTC-6, Nick Cine wrote:

You didn't mention the size of the booster pump motor. There are charts online showing starting and running amperage
requirements for them. Starting current is much higher than running current. Starting current is similar to locked rotor current.
A larger generator would probably help but everyone is guessing without the booster pump motor size. It's at least possible that the breaker is at fault. It's tripping at too low a current draw.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:27:28 -0800 (PST), Dean
<hoffma...@gmail.com> wrote:

good point. Replace the breaker with a new one -- they're not
expensive, are they -- or switch it with another breaker that is
supposed to be the same size.

In the apartment building I lived in 10 years, a water pump pumped water
into a tank in the basement, and an air pump pumped air into the top of
that tank. Neither pump was supposed to run all the time. I think the
water pump re-started when the water level in the tank went below a
certain level.

The air pump restarted when the air pressure in the tank went below a
certain setting. I think t he air pump restarted more often than the
water pump. As water was used from the tank, the empty portion of the
tank increased and the air pressure dropped. At a certain point it went
back on. I'm pretty sure the air pump was much smaller than the water
pump because air weighs less than water, and I saw both pumps.

This system provided water from the basement to the 6th floor of our
buiding. (Above 6 floors a different system was necessary, and iiuc
required by NYC building code A tank on the roof I think.)

Any chance the OP could add an airpump to his system. Presumably the
system is already airtight at least under the water, and probably above
the water too. Oh, does he have a tank now?

After a new ignorant owner bought the building, things didn't work as
well, and when a toilet was flushed (since the toilets used
flushometers, not tanks), the cold water pressure on the 5th floor
dropped so much that a shower became too hot to bear, if it had been
okay before hand, or became acceptable if had been too cold before. So I
began to take baths instead.

[bud--]

The starting current of an ordinary induction motor is about 6x the full
load running current.

Numbers would be nice - pump running current? 120? 240V?

As someone asked - if everything else is off will the pump start?

I thought some generators had starting current ratings.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <YaBBN.268918$yEgf....@fx09.iad>, nu...@void.com says...

>
> The starting current of an ordinary induction motor is about 6x the full
> load running current.
>
> Numbers would be nice - pump running current? 120? 240V?
>
> As someone asked - if everything else is off will the pump start?
>
> I thought some generators had starting current ratings.
>
>
>

I do not know about the inverter generators but the ones I have, not
inverter, do have a surge current rating. Many of the generators have
in big letters the surge current and smaller letters the normal maximum
current. Such as a 5000 watt continues generator may state 5800 watts
surge.

The dual and tri fuel generators usually have less output when used on
propane and natural gas instead of gasoline.
The fuel will not produce as much horsepower to turn the generator as
gasoline.

[trader_4]

That's what I wondered too. For temporary emergency power, it the booster
pump really essential? And like you said, making sure all other significant loads
are off would help. But with a booster pump, I don't think that's possible. It
likely kicks in and out based on pressure, as water is drawn. Opening a big
faucet to get it going might help, reducing the load on the pump. And yes,
a larger generator will be able to support a larger starting current, question is
how big.