Peel-and-stick tiles over same

[TomR]

I have a kitchen floor that now has vinyl peel-and-stick 12"x12" tiles on
the floor. The tile surfaces are worn in some areas which makes it look
bad, but the tiles are all solidly in place with none of them coming up at
the corners or seams, etc. I am thinking about just putting new vinyl
peel-and-stick tiles down over the existing floor -- mostly because I am
looking for a cheap and quick fix. I know that is not the best way to do
the floor, but if it will work, that would be good enough for what I need
right now.

One question I have is, "will the new peel-and-stick tiles stick well enough
to the original ones? Of course, I will clean the floor first to make sure
there is no wax or other coating on the original floor before applying the
new peel-and-stick tiles. I don't live at the property, so I don't know if
the occupants may have used any kind of wax or floor cleaner that would
leave any residual coating, which is why I need to clean it first.

Would it help if I also did a very quick roughening of the surface with
sandpaper first, or would I probably be better off not doing that and just
leaving the surface smooth?

And, when putting the new tiles down, I have the option of either just
laying the new tiles exactly where the old tiles are placed, or I could
offset the new tiles by 6 inches in both directions so the edges of the new
tiles would be lined up with the edges of the underlying old tiles. Any
thoughts on which of these two options would be best?

Thanks.

[tra...@optonline.net]

First thought is what does it say on the installation instructions
or the manufacturers website? I would think that if the existing
tiles
are all sticking OK that washing it with a product designed to remove
wax would suffice. I would opt for installing them so the new joints
don't line up with the old.

[nestork]

Tom:

There's certainly no Carnauba wax or acrylic floor finish on Peel&Stick
tiles; all you have is a clear vinyl wear layer on top.

But, to do this right, what you should be doing is buying a bag of
cement based floor leveling compound (and I prefer Mapei Planipatch and
was using it long before there even was a Home Depot in Winnipeg to sell
it), and put two coats of floor leveler down before sticking your new
tiles down.

The whole purpose of the floor leveler is to fill in the surface
embossing for the old tiles so that the embossing doesn't eventually end
up "telegraphing" throught and shoing up as a "ghost pattern" on the new
tiles.

If you don't have any embossed pattern on your old tiles, you don't need
to bother with the floor leveler. Also, if it wuz me, I would install
the tiles offset at least 2 inches in both directions from the old
tiles. Use a tape measure to ensure that your new starting point
doesn't result in your having to cut thin pieces of tile to fit up to
any wall or toe kick.
With Mapei Planipatch, you should mix your first coat of Patch with
Mapei's recommended "additive" (pronounced "adhesive", which is called
"Planipatch Plus"). You spread that on your existing floor with an
ordinary plastering trowel, wait for it to dry, and then with a bright
light on the floor, scrape off any trowel ridges or drops of patch with
a sharp paint scraper.

Don't mix up more patch than you can spread in 15 minutes cuz it'll
harden up on you so that you can't spread it. I use 7-11 Big Gulp cups
to mix the patch in.

Then, for the second coat of patch, dilute the additive with 3 parts
water and use that solution to mix the Planipatch. Then, scrape that
second coat down, and you're ready to start sticking the new tiles
down.

When I do this kind of work, (and I;ve done more than my fair share of
it) I put a third coat on:
1. I mix the Planipatch with water only so that it dries soft
2. Then I sand the whole floor surface down smooth with a drywall hand
sander and sanding screen so that it's smooth as a baby's bum,
3. Then I paint the Plus additive onto the third coat with a 10 inch
paint roller. The additive gets wicked into that soft third coat and
glues all the particles of cement together as it dries. I then have a
SMOOTH, HARD surface on which to install my vinyl composition floor
tiles.

But, you don't really need to do that. As long as you scrape the floor
smooth with the aid of a sharp paint scraper and bright light (to
exagerate any roughness and make it easily visible), then you're doing
the job the same way as any pro would (if a pro would stoop to
installing Peel&Stick).

Alternatively, put the first two coats on as described, and then use my
method over any rough spots you still find to smooth them out.

Use 2 inch painter's masking tape around your baseboards to avoid
getting floor patch all over them. In fact, depending on the style of
baseboard you have, you'll need to remove the shoe molding or the entire
baseboard. It's the baseboard's or shoe molding's job to cover the cut
edge of any flooring you install in the room, so you'll need to remove
the last molding to be installed, and then re-install it to cover the
cut edge of your new P&S tiles.




--
nestork

[tra...@optonline.net]

On May 27, 2:34 pm, nestork <nestork.be96...@diybanter.com> wrote:
> Tom:
>
> There's certainly no Carnauba wax or acrylic floor finish on Peel&Stick
> tiles; all you have is a clear vinyl wear layer on top.

Unless of course someone put it there.......

[EXT]

<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:a760129f-a7eb-41c7...@bz1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

Yes, check the manufacturer's website. Some make an adhesive compound that
you spread on the floor first, let it dry to a tacky finish, then apply your
self stick tiles. It is almost like using regular tiles with adhesive, but
you put a thin layer on the floor and you don't install the tiles until it
is dry and tacky. The adhesive on the back of the tile will bond with the
tacky material on the floor and it is like trying to get two pieces of duct
tape stuck together sticky side to sticky side. This way they won't lift. As
said earlier, don't let the seams of the tiles align up, keep them offset by
a couple of inches.

[nestork]

'tra...@optonline.net[_2_ Wrote:
> ;3069349']On May 27, 2:34*pm, nestork nestork.be96...@diybanter.com
> wrote:-

> Tom:
>
> There's certainly no Carnauba wax or acrylic floor finish on
> Peel&Stick

> tiles; all you have is a clear vinyl wear layer on top.-

>
> Unless of course someone put it there.......

Could be...
No telling what a previous owner of that house might have done.




--
nestork

[TomR]

Thanks for such a thorough response.

There is no embossed pattern on the old tiles that I will be covering, so I
won't need to do any floor leveling etc. But, it was helpful to see how you
do the floor leveling for other situations where I may need to go over a
floor that has an indented pattern in it, maybe even including going over
ceramic tile -- if the floor leveling will work for that.

And, since you and everyone else suggested offsetting the new tiles at least
two or more inches from the tiles below, I'll definitely do that. I did
think to be careful with the new pattern line to make sure I don't end up
with tiny slices or strips near where the new tiles will meet the walls,
entranceway, cabinets, etc.

[TomR]

Which could be a possibility and is why I'll clean/strip the floor first
just to be sure.

[TomR]

EXT wrote:
> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:a760129f-a7eb-41c7...@bz1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 27, 10:30 am, "TomR" <T...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
>>> I have a kitchen floor that now has vinyl peel-and-stick 12"x12"
>>> tiles on the floor. The tile surfaces are worn in some areas which
>>> makes it look bad, but the tiles are all solidly in place with none
>>> of them coming up at
>>> the corners or seams, etc. I am thinking about just putting new
>>> vinyl peel-and-stick tiles down over the existing floor

.........,

>> First thought is what does it say on the installation instructions
>> or the manufacturers website? I would think that if the existing
>> tiles
>> are all sticking OK that washing it with a product designed to remove
>> wax would suffice. I would opt for installing them so the new joints
>> don't line up with the old.

> Yes, check the manufacturer's website. Some make an adhesive compound
> that you spread on the floor first, let it dry to a tacky finish,
> then apply your self stick tiles. It is almost like using regular
> tiles with adhesive, but you put a thin layer on the floor and you
> don't install the tiles until it is dry and tacky. The adhesive on
> the back of the tile will bond with the tacky material on the floor
> and it is like trying to get two pieces of duct tape stuck together
> sticky side to sticky side. This way they won't lift. As said
> earlier, don't let the seams of the tiles align up, keep them offset
> by a couple of inches.

Thanks. I will see if I can check the manufacturer's website, if I can
figure out who the manufacturer is, and if they have a website for
consumers. The tile I am going to use is from Lowes and the sample tile
that I have doesn't name the manufacturer. I'll go to the Lowes store and
look at the box they come in to see who makes the product.

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

On May 27, 5:35 pm, "TomR" <T...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
> EXT wrote:
> > <trad...@optonline.net> wrote in message

> look at the box they come in to see who makes the product.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You should consider removing the 1/4 round around the perimeter of the
floor and have the tiles extend almost to the actual wall/baseboard of
the wall. The present floor probably extends under the 1/4 round to
hide expansion and contraction of the floor, and you need to continue
that practice.

[Y'all Gibbons]

"TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote in message news:knvqdv$1ra$1...@dont-email.me...

I put down new vinyl tiles in a bathroom on top of the old vinyl tiles 20 years ago in this house and no problems yet. Just clean it good, sand down raised places.

[TomR]

Thanks. That makes sense. This is an unusual situation where there is no
baseboard or 1/4 there at present (there should be). After putting down the
new floor, I'm going to add new baseboard trim which will go on top of the
new tile.

[TomR]

Good to know. Thanks.

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

On May 28, 5:20 pm, "TomR" <T...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:

> new tile.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Let us know how it goes after you are finished, a photo would be nice.