Dangerous electrical panels?
Daniel Prince
ELECTRICAL
PANEL SAFE?
A Potential
HAZARD
could exist at your home
AT RISK: Federal Pacific,
Zinsco, X.O Style Square D,
Pushmatic, Challenger,
Crouse Hinds, Sylvania
We have a Federal Pacific panel. My brother thinks this means our
panel is unsafe. I think this electrician is just trying to scare
up business. His list seems to be just about every brand of panel
ever made.
What do you think? Thank you in advance for all
replies.
--
Whenever I hear or think of the song "Great green gobs of greasy
grimey gopher guts" I imagine my cat saying; "That sounds REALLY,
REALLY good. I'll have some of that!"
Phisherman
<neut...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>We recently received a flyer from an electrician. It says:
>
>ELECTRICAL
>PANEL SAFE?
>A Potential
>HAZARD
>could exist at your home
>
>AT RISK: Federal Pacific,
>Zinsco, X.O Style Square D,
>Pushmatic, Challenger,
>Crouse Hinds, Sylvania
>
>We have a Federal Pacific panel. My brother thinks this means our
>panel is unsafe. I think this electrician is just trying to scare
>up business. His list seems to be just about every brand of panel
>ever made.
>
>What do you think? Thank you in advance for all
>replies.
Sure it is possible a hazard exists. Why does your brother think your
panel is unsafe? Is it wet? rusting? sparks? shocks? Made in
China?
John Grabowski
>
> ELECTRICAL
> PANEL SAFE?
> A Potential
> HAZARD
> could exist at your home
>
> AT RISK: Federal Pacific,
> Zinsco, X.O Style Square D,
> Pushmatic, Challenger,
> Crouse Hinds, Sylvania
>
> We have a Federal Pacific panel. My brother thinks this means our
> panel is unsafe. I think this electrician is just trying to scare
> up business. His list seems to be just about every brand of panel
> ever made.
>
> What do you think? Thank you in advance for all
> replies.
*Federal Pacific does have a reputation for faulty circuit breakers.
Sometimes they don't trip when there is a short circuit. I have experienced
this myself a few times. I have also found with the FPE two pole and three
pole breakers when you shut them off not all poles will open. Home buyers
are also aware of the problems and hysteria associated with Federal Pacific
so you may want to consider an upgrade at some point.
I seem to recall that there were some problems with the old style Square D.
There is one style of Crouse-Hinds circuit breaker which I have found to
have a high rate of failure, but have not associated any hazard with it.
I haven't heard about any problems with the rest.
RBM
"Daniel Prince" <neut...@ca.rr.com> wrote in message
news:nl00v45d7cl4v3avq...@4ax.com...
Federal Pacific has known problems with certain models. I'm sure all the
manufacturers have had issues at one time or another, and probably had law
suits as well. I am a licensed electrician in down state NY. FPE was from
Newark, NJ, so my area is full of their panels. Most contractors offered
customers a high end panel, or an FPE, if they wanted to save a few bucks.
IMO. if the panel is in good physical shape, and the service is adequate, I
wouldn't lose sleep over it. Considering the thousands of them around my
area, and in 37 years in the business, I've never seen or heard of a fire
caused by one, it's probably OK
Eric in North TX
I don't know if they were all defective, but I had an FPE at my last
house lose one side explosively. It was more inconvenient than
dangerous I just lost half of the 120 and all of the 220 until we got
it replaced.
I have another FPE that I bought 2nd hand, that we used as a temporary
in my shop until it could be wired. I worked with it enough to say it
doesn't have the sturdy feel of a Square D & the breakers are poorly
thought out and executed, + the buss bars are flimsy (likely the cause
of the problem in my first sentence.) Still we welded in the shop,
used a 4 post lift, & used good sized wood working tools until the
contractor could get around to trenching & wiring to do it properly,
all on that old FPE on a 100' 220 extension cord.
JoeSpareBedroom
>
> ELECTRICAL
> PANEL SAFE?
> A Potential
> HAZARD
> could exist at your home
>
> AT RISK: Federal Pacific,
> Zinsco, X.O Style Square D,
> Pushmatic, Challenger,
> Crouse Hinds, Sylvania
>
> We have a Federal Pacific panel. My brother thinks this means our
> panel is unsafe. I think this electrician is just trying to scare
> up business. His list seems to be just about every brand of panel
> ever made.
>
> What do you think? Thank you in advance for all
> replies.
http://www.philadelphiaelectric.com/recall__federal_pacific_breaker.htm
That's one of many interesting sites found via a google search with the
words "recall federal pacific electrical". Do the same google search and
you'll find more info.
bud--
> We recently received a flyer from an electrician. It says:
>
> ELECTRICAL
> PANEL SAFE?
> A Potential
> HAZARD
> could exist at your home
>
> AT RISK: Federal Pacific,
> Zinsco, X.O Style Square D,
> Pushmatic, Challenger,
> Crouse Hinds, Sylvania
>
> We have a Federal Pacific panel. My brother thinks this means our
> panel is unsafe. I think this electrician is just trying to scare
> up business. His list seems to be just about every brand of panel
> ever made.
>
> What do you think? Thank you in advance for all
> replies.
FPE submitted fraudulent test information to UL. FPE was sold to
Reliance and they reported the fraud. UL then revoked the listing for
much of the FPE line. The problems were probably for equipment
manufactured around 1965-1980. The Consumer Product Safety Commission
did preliminary tests on FPE breakers with disturbing results. The CPSC
closed it's investigation - one reason probably was that breakers are
not a "consumer product".
http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
has a lot of information of FPE, much of it derived from the
investigation by the CPSC. Two pole breakers may not trip (can jam and
never trip) if the current on both poles is not the same (like ground
fault). (Service disconnect size breakers were not tested.) Another
problem - single pole breakers may never trip at 135% of rating. Also
bus failures which cannot be seen as they are developing without panel
disassembly.
Another source:
http://www.codecheck.com/cc/pdf/electrical/FPE_Article_Nov2003.pdf
includes additional problems with FPE panels, including the bus problems.
There was a class action suit in NJ in 2005. Haven't heard results.
FPE is currently sold in Canada.
==================
Some info on Zinsco. (I haven’t read it.) Sylvania bought Zinsco.
http://www.inspect-ny.com/electric/Zinsco.htm
http://www.mikeholt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/005092.html
--
bud--
Paul Franklin
<neut...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>We recently received a flyer from an electrician. It says:
>
>ELECTRICAL
>PANEL SAFE?
>A Potential
>HAZARD
>could exist at your home
>
>AT RISK: Federal Pacific,
>Zinsco, X.O Style Square D,
>Pushmatic, Challenger,
>Crouse Hinds, Sylvania
>
>We have a Federal Pacific panel. My brother thinks this means our
>panel is unsafe. I think this electrician is just trying to scare
>up business. His list seems to be just about every brand of panel
>ever made.
>
>What do you think? Thank you in advance for all
>replies.
Some close friends of mine had their house burn about a year and a
half ago. The initial event was a short in an attic fan (probably a
result of years of vibration, but it was too badly burned to be sure).
But the FPE breaker in their FPE panel didn't trip. The investigator
removed 3 other breakers from the panel (which was in the basement and
not damaged by the fire) and sent them to a lab for testing. I read
the test results. The test consists of applying an overcurrent to the
breaker and waiting 5 minutes to see if it trips. If it doesn't, the
breaker is allowed to cool, then the test is repeated at a higher
current. The breakers were all 20 amps. One tripped at 23 amps (about
right). The second tripped at 47 amps. The third did not trip at the
test limit of 50 amps. The investigator said he has seen many
electrical fires resulting from failure of the FPE breakers to trip.
My friends were lucky. No one was hurt and they had good insurance
coverage. They were home and detected the fire quickly, but the damage
to their home was still extensive. They have only recently finished
the rebuilding and refurnishing, a year and a half later. My buddy
tells everyone who will listen 2 things. If you have an FPE panel,
get it replaced. Now. And take pictures of everything you own. Open
every drawer and spread out the contents and take the shot. Same with
cupboards, closets, etc. Then burn them to a Cd and stick it in your
safe deposit box.
I don't have an FPE panel, but I followed his advice on the pictures.
Paul F.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
<pffra...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:56:56 -0700, Daniel Prince
><neut...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>We recently received a flyer from an electrician. It says:
>>
>>ELECTRICAL
>>PANEL SAFE?
>>A Potential
>>HAZARD
>>could exist at your home
Breakers??
Who needs BREAKERS?
Fuses are pretty well fail safe and I'm in no hurry to replace my
"amalgamated electric" fuse panel
Jojo
Just because YOU never heard of this,problem??? Did u ever see or hear Carbon
monoxide? ..but it kills you right?..you are making,a decision on your small
limited knowledge. .which is a ego thought. You,are not a smart educated
electrician..you are an,apprentice
--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/dangerous-electrical-panels-369631-.htm
DerbyDad03
> replying to RBM, Jojo wrote:
> Just because YOU never heard of this,problem??? Did u ever see or hear Carbon
> monoxide? ..but it kills you right?..you are making,a decision on your small
> limited knowledge. .which is a ego thought. You,are not a smart educated
> electrician..you are an,apprentice
>
of words, poor punctuation and grammar errors seriously.
Second, can *you* "see or hear" carbon monoxide? I can't.
Third, the post you responded to is from 2009. Please try to stay current.
burfordTjustice
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> First, learn how to type before you start berating people. It's
> really hard to take such a mess of words, poor punctuation and
> grammar errors seriously.
Another obama thug.
Doug Miller
news:b6010721-83c9-4545...@googlegroups.com:
Whatever this disagreement is about, there's a pretty good chance that RBM is completely
correct and JoJo is FOS.
Michelle Hughes
> Zinsco
Hi, if you have an electrical panel that is Federal Pacific, please replace as
soon as possible. There is a huge fire risk, the panel does not include arch
fault circuit interrupter breakers - this means if the wires arch in the walls
it will cause a fire. The newer panel have a safety shut off - I am a realtor
and can tell you there is much data out there to back this up. It is not just
about the electrician getting business, it's about your family being safe.
There are case after case of these panels causing fires, please heed the
warning, it is good advice.
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/dangerous-electrical-panels-369631-.htm
Gordon Shumway
>replying to Daniel Prince, Michelle Hughes wrote:
>> Zinsco
>Hi, if you have an electrical panel that is Federal Pacific, please replace as
>soon as possible. There is a huge fire risk, the panel does not include arch
>fault circuit interrupter breakers - this means if the wires arch in the walls
>it will cause a fire. The newer panel have a safety shut off - I am a realtor
>and can tell you there is much data out there to back this up. It is not just
>about the electrician getting business, it's about your family being safe.
>There are case after case of these panels causing fires, please heed the
>warning, it is good advice.
that officials believe started in the walls. Things could have been different if you had only replied about 8 years
earlier.
Uncle Monster
[8~{} Uncle Sad Monster
Sam Hill
> this means if the wires arch in the walls
(beside the fact that you replied to an *8* year old message)
trader_4
> replying to Daniel Prince, Michelle Hughes wrote:
> > Zinsco
> Hi, if you have an electrical panel that is Federal Pacific, please replace as
> soon as possible. There is a huge fire risk, the panel does not include arch
> fault circuit interrupter breakers - this means if the wires arch in the walls
> it will cause a fire.
panels, but it has absolutely nothing to do with them not having
AFCI. If AFCI is the safety issue, then 95%+ of the homes in
America are unsafe, because AFCI has only been required on
certain circuits starting in recent years. Even new construction
homes from ten years ago don't have them and all the homes
without are still 100% code compliant on that issue.
Mark Lloyd
> replying to Daniel Prince, Michelle Hughes wrote:
>> Zinsco
> Hi, if you have an electrical panel that is Federal Pacific, please
> replace as
> soon as possible.
I know two people who have had serious house fires. Both had Federal
Pacific panels. One told me she could see a breaker glowing red before
the fire started.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
"All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of
the few." -- Marie Henri Beyle (Stendhal)
Mark Lloyd
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 23:44:03 +0000, Michelle Hughes wrote:
>
>> this means if the wires arch in the walls
>
> ...if the wires _arch_ ??? LOL
I was never sure why.
DerbyDad03
> On 02/18/2017 06:26 PM, Sam Hill wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 23:44:03 +0000, Michelle Hughes wrote:
> >
> >> this means if the wires arch in the walls
> >
> > ...if the wires _arch_ ??? LOL
>
> I have known several people who get the words "arc" and "arch" mixed up.
> I was never sure why.
>
http://www.arcflashprotection.co.uk/img/arc1_clip_image002.jpg
http://randyselectric.com/learningcenter/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bigstock-Hv-Arc-470897.jpg