Fighting with screws on Blue Plastic electrical boxes

[Caulki...@work.com]

As I stated in another thread, I only use metal electrical boxes. There
are several reasons, and one is simply because I'm in my 60's and have
been doing it that way for years. But there are other reasons. First
off, metal provides a good ground, and since metal dos not burn, it's a
little safer if some wires or a receptacle was to overheat at a
connection in the box. (which is normally where fires start). Plastic
on the other hand does burn and melt, thus it;s less safe. Then comes
the issue of those platic boxes breaking inside a wall. Granted, under
normal use they should not break, but given a little too much pressure,
they shatter easily. Which of course means ripping a wall apart,
whereas a metal box wont break, and even if it gets bent a little, it
can be hammered or pried fairly straight and used.

Ok, there are some minuses for metal boxes, and the main one is that
they can cause a short if wires get pinched against the box. Also, they
can become electrically live, (if they are not properly grounded). And,
in some locations, particularly moist barns which contain livestock and
manure, they can and do rust. (In the old days, they had bakelite boxes
for barns). Other than that, I prefer metal boxes and use them
exclusively (except in barns).

But my main reason for posting this message is because I have found that
those blue plastic boxes are a real pain in the butt to get the screws
into them. (The ones that attach the switch or receptacle). Apparently
they are not pre-threaded. I've never had to fight with the metal boxes
to get the screws in, unless the box or screw was cross threaded. But
those plastic boxes are horrible to get the screws into. And if that's
not bad enough, I just finished taking apart a garage, which I intend to
rebuild at a new location. This garage was over wired, meaning that it
literally had an outlet every 4 feet, on all walls, and had two rows of
lights spaced 3 feet apart across the entire ceiling. To me that seems
excessive. But once again, my point is that they used all blue plastic
boxes, and I found that taking the screws out was worse than installing
them. My wrists hurt badly after removing the first 5 or 6 outlets. I
tried my cordless drill, but stripped the heads on several screws. In
the end, I found that a on some of them, the only solution was to smash
the box with a hammer, rather than waste 20 minutes fighting with one
box, not to mention my patience. When I rebuild this garage, I will use
all metal boxes and not install so many fixtures anyhow, so it was
pointless to waste a lot of time saving those boxes.

All I can figure is that they are cheap to buy, and apparently made so
cheaply that they are not even threaded. And one of the most common
problems I've noted with them is that they will crack where the screw
goes, and that means ripping walls apart to replace them, or using an
epoxy to put in an outlet, which means it can not be removed again.

I dont know if they make a better quality plastic box, but I'm not at
all impressed by those cheap blue ones. For fifty cents to a dollar
more, I'll spend the extra cents and get a reliable and durable metal
box, which will normally outlive the building it's installed in.

[dadiOH]

<Caulki...@work.com> wrote in message
news:taoh695mhcjeop5qq...@4ax.com

> But my main reason for posting this message is because I
> have found that those blue plastic boxes are a real pain
> in the butt to get the screws into them. (The ones that
> attach the switch or receptacle). Apparently they are
> not pre-threaded. I've never had to fight with the metal
> boxes to get the screws in, unless the box or screw was
> cross threaded. But those plastic boxes are horrible to
> get the screws into.

I can't say I have used a lot of boxes of any kind but the blue boxes I have
used - two or three dozen maybe - were all "old work" boxes but nary a one
had that problem.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[WW]

wrote in message news:taoh695mhcjeop5qq...@4ax.com...

I use them all the time. Never had any problems. WW

[HerHusband]

> I only use metal electrical boxes.

There's nothing wrong with metal boxes. I've used them in many situations
like ceiling fan mounts where I need the strength, or specific shallow
boxes I couldn't find in plastic.

> metal provides a good ground

Metal boxes require a grounding pigtail wire, which is an additional
cost. It can also reduce the box fill in certain situations.

The cable clamp in metal boxes usually takes up a bit of space, further
reducing the box capacity. In some cases, a cable clamp has to be
installed separately (like my ceiling fan boxes).

As you mentioned, metal boxes rust. I had to replace several outlets at
my in-laws house and the fixture screws were rusted to the boxes. It took
some work to get them out. The screw heads stripped out so I had to use
vice grips to unscrew them.

> Then comes the issue of those platic boxes breaking inside a wall.
> Granted, under normal use they should not break, but given a little
> too much pressure, they shatter easily. Which of course means
> ripping a wall apart,

The blue boxes made by Carlon are nearly indestructable. I've literally
beaten the things with hammers and prybars when I've wanted to change a
mounting location. They've deformed on occasion, but I've never cracked
one.

Even so, if the box cracked inside the wall, or the mounting screw
stripped out, you could use a reciprocating saw (or small hacksaw blade)
to cut the nails that attach the box to the wall. Then the box will slip
right out. Minimal, if any, damage to the finished wall.

> those blue plastic boxes are a real pain in the butt to get the screws

> into them. Apparently they are not pre-threaded.

I usually use my cordless drill to drive the screws in most of the way,
then use a screwdriver for the final turn or two to secure the outlet (so
I don't strip the hole driving the screw all the way with the drill).

> This garage was over wired, meaning that it literally had an outlet
> every 4 feet, on all walls, and had two rows of lights spaced 3 feet
> apart across the entire ceiling. To me that seems excessive.

I wired my garage with outlets every four feet also. I do a lot of
woodworking and many times wish I had more outlets along a wall. I have
some things that stay plugged in all the time (battery charger, radio,
dust collector, etc.) so those outlets are used up. A few other's are
behind carts or tool boxes where they're difficult to reach.

If I had it to do over, I'd probably install an outlet every 32" (every
other stud bay). I've thought about replacing all the single outlets
with double-gang outlets (four sockets each box), but haven't been that
motivated. :)

I usually just run an extension cord from one of the other walls. It
usually works out best anyway since each I wired each side of my garage
on a different circuit. It lets me use two tools at once without tripping
the circuit breaker.

I installed two circuits for outlets in the garage. I would probably run
additional circuits if I had it to do over.

> one of the most common problems I've noted with them is that
> they will crack where the screw goes

I've never had a box crack at the screw hole, even when I've stripped the
hole and installed a larger screw. Are you using the screws that come
with the outlets/switches? If you're using a tapered screw of some kind,
it might be acting like a wedge forcing the box apart.

> that means ripping walls apart to replace them

As mentioned above, you can remove the boxes without damaging the wall.
However, if it's just a stripped screw hole, you could probably fill the
hole with epoxy. Let it set up, drill a new hole, and install your new
outlet.

> For fifty cents to a dollar more, I'll spend the extra cents
> and get a reliable and durable metal box

The price difference is no big deal if you're only talking a few boxes.
If you're wiring an entire room or building, that can be a significant
difference in cost. Especially since you need to buy grounding pigtails,
and maybe cable clamps too.

> I dont know if they make a better quality plastic box, but I'm not at
> all impressed by those cheap blue ones.

They do make better plastic boxes. I'm not sure what they're made of,
probably bakelite or fiberglass. But, they cost more and usually have
fewer size choices. I've used them on occasion when I couldn't find the
blue box I needed, but they're not my first choice.

Most of the time I use the blue boxes based on price and maximum fill
capacity. But I don't hesititate to use metal or the fiberglass boxes to
accomplish what I need. Basically, I use whatever box does the job at
the lowest cost.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[Mr.E]

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:08:22 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
<unk...@unknown.com> wrote:

>
>I've never had a box crack at the screw hole, even when I've stripped the
>hole and installed a larger screw. Are you using the screws that come
>with the outlets/switches? If you're using a tapered screw of some kind,
>it might be acting like a wedge forcing the box apart.
>
>> that means ripping walls apart to replace them
>
>As mentioned above, you can remove the boxes without damaging the wall.
>However, if it's just a stripped screw hole, you could probably fill the
>hole with epoxy. Let it set up, drill a new hole, and install your new
>outlet.
>

Take a sliver of romex jacket or wire insulation longer than the hole
depth and push it into the hole. This should wedge the screw enough to
tighten it up.
I have done this and later had to change the device. The insulation
almost became part of the box.
--
Mr.E

[The Daring Dufas]

On 10/24/2013 4:27 AM, Caulki...@work.com wrote:
> As I stated in another thread, I only use metal electrical boxes. There

********************Trim Da Phat********************

I understand your problems my friend but I've been using cordless
electric screwdrivers since the 1970's and seen them shrink in size,
become more powerful and much more usable. I have a Milwaukee driver
I bought back in 1989 that's still going strong and the exact model is
still in production. I used it when I worked as an electrician so it has
a lot of on the job training. Many of the blue plastic boxes have
a labor saving feature where the device holding screws go in and it's
a stainless steel barb that allows you to just push the screw in then
turn it a few turns to tighten it. I've never had a problem with Carlon
non-metallic boxes and the company also manufactures phenolic boxes
which are like the Bakelite boxes you mentioned. If you can't find the
boxes at a big box(no pun) store, try an electrical supply house which
will give you a case lot price. ^_^

http://www.tnb.com/pub/node/293

TDD

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
Ditto, I used plastic boxes few times out at my cabin. never had trouble
with them. Having good fitting proper tool make things easy.
My drivers are big and small both De Walt. Small one is very handy
like usual manual screw driver. Magnetized bits at times are useful
also. Metal box does not ground, ground wire does.

[k...@attt.bizz]

Why am I not surprised you have trouble doing something as simple as
screwing an outlet into a box, HomoGay?

[The Daring Dufas]

Heck, the new technology and batteries for cordless tools is amazing and
the amount of power for the weight is surprising. ^_^

TDD