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Commander Kinsey

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Mar 13, 2023, 9:08:59 AM3/13/23
to

Peeler

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 9:31:24 AM3/13/23
to
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:08:49 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore's latest
attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>


Some examples of Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic
"mathematics":
"100 is 5 times more than 20.
"5 times less" is the opposite of "5 times more", so this makes 100 back to
20 again.
20 is 5 times less than 100, the same as dividing by 5.
An elephant is 5 times bigger than a tiger, a tiger is 5 times smaller than
an elephant."
MID: <op.y9piu...@red.lan>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm comparing being able to tell the difference between 21 and 12 to being
able to tell the difference between 21 and 12. If you think that it's easy
to think a 12 year old is 21, it's only fair to use it as a reason when you
get caught fucking a 12 year old, which you mistook to be 21."
MID: <op.ypwgw...@red.lan>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"50 watts is ten times more than 5 watts. Likewise 5 watts is ten times
less than 50 watts."
MID: <op.yraeb...@red.lan>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The answer is 9. The 0.5 chicken is dead, so basically it's 1 chicken
laying 1 egg per day. The half egg was one halfway out, the only egg for
that day."
MID: <op.yrapp...@red.lan>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"let's say you prefer 20C water. If you go in 10C water you'd say that was
cold (10C colder than you want). Now you go in 0C water, that's twice as
cold, because it's now 20C colder than you want."
MID: <op.ywt7g...@red.lan>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Even if only 25% of people want it legalised, and let's say LibDems already
have 15% of the vote. If 75% of that 15% stop voting for them because they
don't want it legalised, they're down to 3.75%. But 25% of the 85% who
didn't previously vote for them, change their mind due to this policy, they
gain 21.25%, giving them a total of 25%, well up from 15%."
MID: <op.yz8hf...@red.lan>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If I say 1, then "or so", the "or so" means another 1.
If I say 5, then "or so", the "or so" means up to another 5.
Is English not your first language?"
MID: <op.y2vou...@red.lan>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you live for 4 years and die, you wasted 4 years. If you live for 20
years and die, you wasted 20 years, that's 5 times worse."
MID: <op.y8gwd...@red.lan>

Karen Cares

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 9:41:58 AM3/13/23
to
Nah, driving on the left side of the road is insanity.

Peeler

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Mar 13, 2023, 10:01:00 AM3/13/23
to
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 09:40:53 -0400, Karen Cares, another mentally deficient
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:



> Nah, driving on the left side of the road is insanity.

It isn't. But deliberately asking retarded questions just to get attention
and fed again by the troll-feeding senile idiots in these groups, IS
insanity, you troll-feeding senile idiot!

Fredxx

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 10:53:03 AM3/13/23
to
It's only insane for those ignorant of the fact in this case v is the
Greek letter nu and has no relation ship to your v for velocity. The
capital is N.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

Sheesh anyone with an IQ over 90 would know that.

Phil Hobbs

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 1:05:15 PM3/13/23
to
Any time you folks feel like taking this pissing contest back to your
own shores, go with our blessing. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

The Natural Philosopher

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Mar 13, 2023, 1:09:58 PM3/13/23
to
Any time you feel like commenting, dont. Both of these areseholes are in
my kill fille
--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone



Phil Hobbs

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 1:11:33 PM3/13/23
to
Well, if you put me there too, you'll be just that much safer. Can't be
too careful.

John Larkin

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Mar 13, 2023, 2:02:40 PM3/13/23
to
Killfiles get confusing when you see followups to posts that you can't
see. It's easier to just ignore the known jerks.

Phil Hobbs

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Mar 13, 2023, 2:25:25 PM3/13/23
to
I use Thunderbird filters, set to 'mark post as read" or "ignore
subthread", depending on the case.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

jim.gm4dhj

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Mar 13, 2023, 3:25:04 PM3/13/23
to
On 13/03/2023 13:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
stuff that I object to Hz rather tan c/s

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 3:34:15 PM3/13/23
to
So far you haven't displayed the emotional pot stirring, bigotry and the
total lack of intelligence of the denizens of my kill file.


--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."



The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 3:35:33 PM3/13/23
to
No can do. 70% of uk.d-i-y is total drivel from about 6 usual suspects.
I dont want to waste what is left of my life reading it

--
“The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell


Phil Hobbs

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 3:41:02 PM3/13/23
to
On 2023-03-13 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 13/03/2023 17:11, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> On 2023-03-13 13:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> Any time you feel like commenting, dont. Both of these areseholes are
>>> in my kill fille
>>
>> Well, if you put me there too, you'll be just that much safer.  Can't
>> be too careful.
>
> So far you haven't displayed the emotional pot stirring, bigotry and the
> total lack of intelligence of the denizens of my kill file.
>
>
I'll obviously have to up my game. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Peeler

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 4:00:18 PM3/13/23
to
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 19:24:58 +0000, dim.gm4dhj, the brain dead,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency
> stuff that I object to Hz rather tan c/s

So why don't you start a new thread about it, you idiotic troll-feeding
senile asshole?

jim.gm4dhj

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 4:15:54 PM3/13/23
to
piss off

Peeler

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 5:00:42 PM3/13/23
to
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:15:46 +0000, dim.gm4dhj, the brain dead,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:

> On 13/03/2023 20:00, Peeler wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 19:24:58 +0000, dim.gm4dhj, the brain dead,
>> troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:
>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency
>>> stuff that I object to Hz rather tan c/s
>>
>> So why don't you start a new thread about it, you idiotic troll-feeding
>> senile asshole?
> piss off

Truth hurts ya, eh, you useless troll-feeding senile asshole? LOL

jim.gm4dhj

unread,
Mar 13, 2023, 5:36:34 PM3/13/23
to
give us a kiss

Peeler

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Mar 13, 2023, 5:57:26 PM3/13/23
to
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 21:36:27 +0000, jim.gm4dhj, the brain dead,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


>>>> So why don't you start a new thread about it, you idiotic troll-feeding
>>>> senile asshole?
>>> piss off
>>
>> Truth hurts ya, eh, you useless troll-feeding senile asshole? LOL
> give us a kiss

Like I said: useless senile idiot!

Fredxx

unread,
Mar 14, 2023, 7:06:00 AM3/14/23
to
Excellent, then that means you don't see the numerous corrections I make
to your posts.

Fredxx

unread,
Mar 14, 2023, 7:29:07 AM3/14/23
to
One of which is you.

When you stop spouting lies on on uk.d-i-y I'll stop telling the truth
you prefer not to hear, for which you have no response.



Mark Lloyd

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Mar 14, 2023, 1:33:23 PM3/14/23
to
They had to name it after somebody, rather than using something actually
meaningful.

Like Celsius instead of centigrade.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Illegal Error. You are not allowed to get this error, next time you
will be punished."

jim.gm4dhj

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 2:59:12 AM3/15/23
to
you are

Peeler

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 3:45:12 AM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 06:59:05 +0000, dim.gm4dhj, the brain dead,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


>>>>>> So why don't you start a new thread about it, you idiotic troll-feeding
>>>>>> senile asshole?
>>>>> piss off
>>>>
>>>> Truth hurts ya, eh, you useless troll-feeding senile asshole? LOL
>>> give us a kiss
>>
>> Like I said: useless senile idiot!
> you are

Like I said: you are the typical useless senile idiot! One of the VERY dumb
sort!

Jim gm4dhj ...

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 4:14:00 AM3/15/23
to
you are

Peeler

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 6:01:56 AM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:13:51 +0000, dim gm4dhj ... , the brain dead,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


>>>>>>>> So why don't you start a new thread about it, you idiotic troll-feeding
>>>>>>>> senile asshole?
>>>>>>> piss off
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Truth hurts ya, eh, you useless troll-feeding senile asshole? LOL
>>>>> give us a kiss
>>>>
>>>> Like I said: useless senile idiot!
>>> you are
>>
>> Like I said: you are the typical useless senile idiot! One of the VERY dumb
>> sort!
> you are

You proved my point, yet again, poor useless idiot! LOL

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 7:33:06 AM3/15/23
to
Please, just learn to filter him out automatically, in your Thunderbird,
and never answer to him. You are just making it worse sending these
useless messages to everybody in the world, and he is enjoying it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

jim.gm4dhj

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 8:25:20 AM3/15/23
to
you have a point?

jim.gm4dhj

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 8:25:51 AM3/15/23
to
who cares

NY

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 11:06:26 AM3/15/23
to
On 13/03/2023 13:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> Since when did we start using v for frequency?  v is velocity, f is
> frequency, lambda is wavelength.  Using v for frequency is pure insanity.
>
> https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Physical_Chemistry_(LibreTexts)/13%3A_Molecular_Spectroscopy/13.01%3A_The_Electromagnetic_Spectrum
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency

Are you thinking of lamba λ (like an inverted v with a tail on one leg)
which is wavelength (c/f) where c is speed of light and f is frequency.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 11:21:36 AM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:25:14 +0000, dim.gm4dhj, the brain dead,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


>>>> Like I said: you are the typical useless senile idiot! One of the VERY dumb
>>>> sort!
>>> you are
>>
>> You proved my point, yet again, poor useless idiot! LOL
> you have a point?

See above, you typical useless senile idiot! LOL

Peeler

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 11:24:42 AM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:27:54 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., the notorious,
brain dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


>> piss off
>
> Please, just learn to filter him out automatically, in your Thunderbird,
> and never answer to him. You are just making it worse sending these
> useless messages to everybody in the world, and he is enjoying it.

The resident troll-feeding cretinous senile spick just fed another troll!
WTF is WRONG with all you senile assholes? Oh, yes, you are SENILE! LOL

Peeler

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 11:26:47 AM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:25:45 +0000, dim.gm4dhj, the brain dead, trolling and
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


>>>> So why don't you start a new thread about it, you idiotic troll-feeding
>>>> senile asshole?
>>> piss off
>>
>> Please, just learn to filter him out automatically, in your Thunderbird,
>> and never answer to him. You are just making it worse sending these
>> useless messages to everybody in the world, and he is enjoying it.
>>
> who cares

Not a troll like you, eh, you demented trolling senile shithead? LOL

NY

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 11:28:44 AM3/15/23
to
(I assume "tan" is a typo for "than", rather than the trig function!)

I can see an advantage in abbreviating "c/s" to "Hz", especially when it
is spoken aloud - "482 mega hertz" is shorter than "482 mega cycles per
second".

Are there any other SI units which are abbreviations for the reciprocal
of another SI unit? I suppose there's mho for conductance which is 1/R
(in ohms) and written as an upside-down omega. But that's not as widely
used.

The notation that always jars with me is the use of negative powers in
place of "per". My Nuffield Physics O/A level books always referred to
speeds in m.s^-1 and accelerations in m.s^-2 (where "^-1" denotes a
superscript "-1" etc. The teacher was undecided as to how you pronounced
that: was it "metres seconds-to-the-minus-1" or "metres per second"?

Negative superscript units always seemed to be a gimmick too far.


And then we get onto the thorny issue of "traditional" versus IUPAC
names for chemical compounds - acetic versus ethanoic acid, isopropyl
alcohol versus propan-2-ol: the traditional names are more familiar but
the IUPAC names are more systematic and more accurately represent how
the atoms are arranged. Familiar versus Sunday-school names ;-)

But the ultimate "grates like chalk on a blackboard" usage for me is
kilometre pronounced "kill-OMM-i-TAH" when all other SI prefixes and
units have the stress on the first syllable "KILL-o-ME-tre" (as for
"MIcroMEtre", "MEGaMEtre" etc). It's hilarious to hear Prof Brian Cox
flipping between "kill-OMM-i-TAH" which his director has probably told
him is the trendy pronunciation and "KILL-o-ME-tre" which he always used
in scientific and engineering work - sometimes he does it from one
sentence to the next.

I once worked with a guy who used the trendy pronunciation for lengths
of running races or distances along roads, and the scientific
pronunciation for units in scientific/engineering contexts.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 11:45:26 AM3/15/23
to
"On our constants and equations sheet, the italicized v stands for the
greek letter nu, which is the variable for frequency. The regular v
stands for velocity. On that sheet specifically, c = λ v and E = hv are
the only equations that use the greek letter nu (frequency). Hope this
helps!"

https://lavelle.chem.ucla.edu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65469

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

Brian Gaff

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Mar 15, 2023, 1:24:17 PM3/15/23
to
This makes my brain Hertz.

Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:K4ucnV0mQttCQ4z5...@brightview.co.uk...
> On 13/03/2023 13:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> Since when did we start using v for frequency? v is velocity, f is
>> frequency, lambda is wavelength. Using v for frequency is pure insanity.
>>
>> https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Physical_Chemistry_(LibreTexts)/13%3A_Molecular_Spectroscopy/13.01%3A_The_Electromagnetic_Spectrum
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency
>
> Are you thinking of lamba ? (like an inverted v with a tail on one leg)

Peeler

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 2:39:59 PM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:06:07 +0000, NY, the really endlessly blathering,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered, yet again:


> Are you thinking

He's TROLLING, you brain dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE!

Ralph Mowery

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 3:11:00 PM3/15/23
to
In article <tusuvq$vpf7$1...@dont-email.me>, brian...@gmail.com says...
>
> This makes my brain Hertz.
>
>
>

Mine too. I still say cycles more than Hertz. Just as I often say 110
instead of 120 which is more like 125 volts now. Guess we need to
rename or put a name on standard line voltages. Just call them Angie,
bill, Carol for the 120, 240, 480 volts !!!



%%

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 3:37:14 PM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:27:54 +1100, Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid>
wrote:
He is one of those who goes out of his way to do what
anyone asks him not to do.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 4:04:45 PM3/15/23
to
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 06:37:03 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>

upsid...@downunder.com

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 6:08:27 PM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:28:27 +0000, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>
>I can see an advantage in abbreviating "c/s" to "Hz", especially when it
>is spoken aloud - "482 mega hertz" is shorter than "482 mega cycles per
>second".
>
>Are there any other SI units which are abbreviations for the reciprocal
>of another SI unit? I suppose there's mho for conductance which is 1/R
>(in ohms) and written as an upside-down omega. But that's not as widely
>used.

For conductance (1/R), suspectance and admittance (1/Z) the unit is
Siemens (S).

NY

unread,
Mar 15, 2023, 6:27:32 PM3/15/23
to
Ah yes, I'd forgotten that siemens is the new name for the unit that
used to be called mho.

Commander Kinsey

unread,
Mar 19, 2023, 8:18:48 AM3/19/23
to
I just use f.

Commander Kinsey

unread,
Mar 19, 2023, 8:20:39 AM3/19/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:10:53 -0000, Ralph Mowery <rmow...@charter.net> wrote:

> In article <tusuvq$vpf7$1...@dont-email.me>, brian...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> This makes my brain Hertz.
>
> Mine too. I still say cycles more than Hertz.

That's because you're a Merkin and can't name anything correctly. I bet you say counter clockwise!

> Just as I often say 110
> instead of 120 which is more like 125 volts now.

Pitiful. Standard 240V all over my house, just the one voltage, just the one style of socket, 13 amps at every socket. Over 3kW for any device you can plug in anywhere. I don't need a special circuit for a dryer.

> Guess we need to
> rename or put a name on standard line voltages. Just call them Angie,
> bill, Carol for the 120, 240, 480 volts !!!

That sounds like what Apple do. Is Leopard or Tiger the newer version of the OS? Who knows?

rbowman

unread,
Mar 19, 2023, 2:27:02 PM3/19/23
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:20:32 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> That sounds like what Apple do. Is Leopard or Tiger the newer version
> of the OS? Who knows?

The Leopard is newer that the Tiger. Oh, you're talking about OSs, not
Panzers.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 19, 2023, 3:14:35 PM3/19/23
to
On 19 Mar 2023 18:26:56 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> The Leopard is newer that the Tiger. Oh, you're talking about OSs, not
> Panzers.

Oh, you are talking simply because you love so much to hear yourself
talking, senile bigmouth!

--
Yet more of the very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"I save my fries quota for one of the local food trucks that offers
poutine every now and then. If you're going for a coronary might as well
do it right."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>

NY

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 9:32:08 AM3/20/23
to
"Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:op.111y5...@ryzen.home...
I've never heard of nu (italic v) being used for frequency in all my
O-level, A-level and university electronic engineering studies. Only f or
omega, where omega = 2 pi f

omega is called angular frequency.


And, being an elec eng, I use j (rather than i) to denote sqrt(-1), since i
tends to be used to denote instantaneous current. I once worked with a guy
called Bill Taylor whose initials were J W T (James William Taylor). He was
known as "J-Omega".

Peeler

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 9:46:07 AM3/20/23
to
On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:32:06 -0000, NY, the really endlessly blathering,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered, yet again:


> I've never heard of

Ever heard of "don't feed the troll", you idiotic senile bullshit artist?

Fredxx

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 10:03:24 AM3/20/23
to
On 20/03/2023 13:32, NY wrote:
> "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.111y5...@ryzen.home...
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:45:19 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/03/2023 15:06, NY wrote:
>>>> On 13/03/2023 13:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> Since when did we start using v for frequency?  v is velocity, f is
>>>>> frequency, lambda is wavelength.  Using v for frequency is pure
>>>>> insanity.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Physical_Chemistry_(LibreTexts)/13%3A_Molecular_Spectroscopy/13.01%3A_The_Electromagnetic_Spectrum
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency
>>>>
>>>> Are you thinking of lamba λ (like an inverted v with a tail on one leg)
>>>> which is wavelength (c/f) where c is speed of light and f is frequency.
>>>
>>> "On our constants and equations sheet, the italicized v stands for the
>>> greek letter nu, which is the variable for frequency. The regular v
>>> stands for velocity. On that sheet specifically, c = λ v and E = hv are
>>> the only equations that use the greek letter nu (frequency). Hope this
>>> helps!"
>>>
>>> https://lavelle.chem.ucla.edu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65469
>>
>> I just use f.
>
>
> I've never heard of nu (italic v) being used for frequency in all my
> O-level, A-level and university electronic engineering studies. Only f
> or omega, where omega = 2 pi f

It's generally used for light and frequencies higher than you might
design for:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/plancks-constant

> omega is called angular frequency.

Yes.

> And, being an elec eng, I use j (rather than i) to denote sqrt(-1),
> since i tends to be used to denote instantaneous current. I once worked
> with a guy called Bill Taylor whose initials were J W T (James William
> Taylor). He was known as "J-Omega".

The maths element of degrees in the UK have generally been taught by
mathematicians who would use 'i'. Most would be then be familiar with
the duality of symbols.

soup

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 10:19:34 AM3/20/23
to
On 15/03/2023 15:28, NY wrote:

> I once worked with a guy who used the trendy pronunciation for lengths
> of running races or distances along roads, and the scientific
> pronunciation for units in scientific/engineering contexts.

I use something similar I use Imperial units (Miles, Feet etc) for
distances along roads peoples sizes etc, but Metric ( Centimetres
Millimetres etc) for scientific/engineering contexts .

SH

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 3:12:15 PM3/20/23
to
What are Imperial units????

I was brought up in the MKS and CGS system....

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 3:33:11 PM3/20/23
to
On 20/03/2023 13:32, NY wrote:
> I've never heard of nu (italic v) being used for frequency in all my
> O-level, A-level and university electronic engineering studies. Only f
> or omega, where omega = 2 pi f
>
> omega is called angular frequency.
v is used in Physics, not electronics. E=hv being the one I can
remember. It may be relating the energy in photon to its spectral frequency

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"


SH

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 4:47:33 PM3/20/23
to
On 20/03/2023 19:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 20/03/2023 13:32, NY wrote:
>> I've never heard of nu (italic v) being used for frequency in all my
>> O-level, A-level and university electronic engineering studies. Only f
>> or omega, where omega = 2 pi f
>>
>> omega is called angular frequency.
>  v is used in Physics, not electronics. E=hv being the one I can
> remember. It may be relating the energy in photon to its spectral frequency
>


and I remember E = hc / Lambda

so c = lambda x v

where m is the speed of light in ms^-1, Lambda is wavelength in metres
and v is the frequency in Hz or s^-1


Commander Kinsey

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 8:24:12 PM3/20/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:28:27 -0000, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> On 13/03/2023 19:24, jim.gm4dhj wrote:
>> On 13/03/2023 13:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> Since when did we start using v for frequency? v is velocity, f is
>>> frequency, lambda is wavelength. Using v for frequency is pure insanity.
>>>
>>> https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Physical_Chemistry_(LibreTexts)/13%3A_Molecular_Spectroscopy/13.01%3A_The_Electromagnetic_Spectrum
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency
>> stuff that I object to Hz rather tan c/s
>
> (I assume "tan" is a typo for "than", rather than the trig function!)
>
> I can see an advantage in abbreviating "c/s" to "Hz", especially when it
> is spoken aloud - "482 mega hertz" is shorter than "482 mega cycles per
> second".
>
> Are there any other SI units which are abbreviations for the reciprocal
> of another SI unit?

I wasn't aware cycles was an SI unit. When would you ever state "79 cycles"? It's not something you count like joules or metres.

> I suppose there's mho for conductance which is 1/R
> (in ohms) and written as an upside-down omega. But that's not as widely
> used.

Gotta like spelling ohm backwards to get mho!

> The notation that always jars with me is the use of negative powers in
> place of "per". My Nuffield Physics O/A level books always referred to
> speeds in m.s^-1 and accelerations in m.s^-2 (where "^-1" denotes a
> superscript "-1" etc. The teacher was undecided as to how you pronounced
> that: was it "metres seconds-to-the-minus-1" or "metres per second"?
>
> Negative superscript units always seemed to be a gimmick too far.

If I say 4 x 10^1, that means multiplying the 4 by the 10. So if I say 4 x 10^-1, it's the same as taking the 4 and dividing it by 10. So I guess it makes sense. Simpler to say 4/10 though.

I think I've seen m.s^-1 and m/s equally. Although I've never known the dot between m and s.

> And then we get onto the thorny issue of "traditional" versus IUPAC
> names for chemical compounds - acetic versus ethanoic acid, isopropyl
> alcohol versus propan-2-ol: the traditional names are more familiar but
> the IUPAC names are more systematic and more accurately represent how
> the atoms are arranged. Familiar versus Sunday-school names ;-)

I prefer the new ones, they're more logical, although if I was old enough to have learned the old ones, I probably would end up still hanging onto them. Just like I grew up with F, but started using C around the 0 mark, as it was easier for 0 to be freezing point. So I'd say it's 70 degrees in the living room, but minus 4 outside, using F for inside and C for outside. I now use C everywhere. Rooms got a bit cooler, since I used to say 70 was room temperature, now I say 20. SI units save power!

> But the ultimate "grates like chalk on a blackboard"

It doesn't, fingernails do. I had a teacher who would do that to stop us chatting. I had another who brought a huge wooden set square down on a desk with great force. Although one day it split in half and one half flew across the room, missed the heads of a few kids who ducked, and cracked the window. Instead of the usual "I like to make noise too!" he said "oh dear".

> usage for me is
> kilometre pronounced "kill-OMM-i-TAH" when all other SI prefixes and
> units have the stress on the first syllable "KILL-o-ME-tre" (as for
> "MIcroMEtre", "MEGaMEtre" etc). It's hilarious to hear Prof Brian Cox
> flipping between "kill-OMM-i-TAH" which his director has probably told
> him is the trendy pronunciation and "KILL-o-ME-tre" which he always used
> in scientific and engineering work - sometimes he does it from one
> sentence to the next.

I use either and it doesn't bother me, but OMM-itah to me is more of a thing designed to measure, as in a micROMeter measure MICrometres.

So since a miLOMMeter measures how many miles your car has travelled, surely modern cars should have a kilOMMitarOMMitar?

> I once worked with a guy who used the trendy pronunciation for lengths
> of running races or distances along roads, and the scientific
> pronunciation for units in scientific/engineering contexts.

The only distance I remember was my PE teacher shouting at me "round the perimeter!" - a punishment for disobedience. Since he was a bit queer, we used to call it "round the perimeter with your pants down!" This was before peadophilophobia - one of my friends fucked a French teacher in the swimming pool. Nothing was said.

Commander Kinsey

unread,
Mar 20, 2023, 8:27:09 PM3/20/23
to
That's a German manufacturing company. WTF was wrong with the mho?

And I think you meant susceptance. You were suspecting it was conducting?

Gerhard Hoffmann

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 12:10:43 AM3/21/23
to
Am 21.03.23 um 01:27 schrieb Commander Kinsey:

>> For conductance (1/R), suspectance and admittance (1/Z) the unit is
>> Siemens (S).
>
> That's a German manufacturing company.  WTF was wrong with the mho?

No. Wernher von Siemens was one of our pioneers, like
Tesla, Marconi, Ohm, Ampère.
I was at his grave in Berlin-Kreuzberg. Quite modest.
I would have expected more for the founding father
of one of the world's most important electrical companies.
Like a fresh flower or two.

Gerhard

Peeler

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 4:27:20 AM3/21/23
to
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 05:10:36 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann, another mentally
deficient, troll-feeding senile asshole, blathered:


> No. Wernher von Siemens was one of our pioneers, like

Well, Birbrain is one of "our" dumbest sociopathic trolls in these groups
and you are one of the dumb troll-feeding senile assholes who can't resist
his endless idiotic baits, even though everyone knows what's the matter with
him. <G>

--
Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson") about himself:
"I can sleep outside in a temperature of -20C wearing only shorts".
"I once took a dump behind some bushes and slid down a hill to wipe my
arse".
(Courtesy of Mr Pounder)

Vir Campestris

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 7:56:35 AM3/21/23
to
On 20/03/2023 19:12, SH wrote:
>
> What are Imperial units????
>
> I was brought up in the MKS and CGS system....

In the UK "Imperial Units" refers to miles, feet, pounds, pints and
suchlike. Noting that the imperial means British Empire, and the pint is
20 fluid ounces - not 16 as in the US.

I was taught in MKS, but imperial units were still in common use. Which
meant that if I put my hand in some water I'd feel 20C, but the air
around it would be 68F and I'd have to think to work out which was warmer :)

Andy

Ian Jackson

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 12:35:47 PM3/21/23
to
In message <op.114rj...@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
<C...@nospam.com> writes
I'm of the same mind about the introduction of 'new' units. While I
certainly don't advocate using (say) volts-per-amp instead of ohms, I
find myself feeling rather silly when I have to ask, "WTF is a 'Siemen'?
If their introduction is not resisted, the possibilities for puzzlement
and confusion are endless, eg what could we call a foot-per-second, or a
mile-per-hour?
>
>And I think you meant susceptance. You were suspecting it was conducting?

--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

Ian Jackson

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 12:40:27 PM3/21/23
to
In message <op.114re...@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
<C...@nospam.com> writes



>
>I wasn't aware cycles was an SI unit. When would you ever state "79
>cycles"? It's not something you count like joules or metres.

'Cycles' are SO old hat. Doesn't everyone use 'hertz-seconds'?

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 12:58:42 PM3/21/23
to
Siemens are the ones who bribed the EU to pass the renewable obligation,
and sponsored the Tory party here.
No, they are not a great company, they are just another German arm of
the Mafia
>

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 1:13:05 PM3/21/23
to
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 16:40:13 +0000, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <op.114re...@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
><C...@nospam.com> writes
>
>
>
>>
>>I wasn't aware cycles was an SI unit. When would you ever state "79
>>cycles"? It's not something you count like joules or metres.
>
>'Cycles' are SO old hat. Doesn't everyone use 'hertz-seconds'?

We use Ohm-Siemens "OS" to name dimensionless things.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 2:00:23 PM3/21/23
to
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 16:35:32 +0000, Idiot Jackson, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled again:


> I'm

You're a troll-feeding senile HUGE ASSHOLE! Period!

Peeler

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 2:03:37 PM3/21/23
to
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 16:40:13 +0000, Idiot Jackson, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled again:


> 'Cycles' are SO old hat. Doesn't everyone use 'hertz-seconds'?

At least not EVERY senile asshole feeds that troll, just the dumbest among
you!

charles

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 2:30:48 PM3/21/23
to
In article <tvcnns$63da$9...@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 21/03/2023 04:10, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> > Am 21.03.23 um 01:27 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
> >
> >>> For conductance (1/R), suspectance and admittance (1/Z) the unit is
> >>> Siemens (S).
> >>
> >> That's a German manufacturing company. WTF was wrong with the mho?
> >
> > No. Wernher von Siemens was one of our pioneers, like
> > Tesla, Marconi, Ohm, Ampère.
> > I was at his grave in Berlin-Kreuzberg. Quite modest.
> > I would have expected more for the founding father
> > of one of the world's most important electrical companies.
> > Like a fresh flower or two.
> >
> > Gerhard
> Siemens are the ones who bribed the EU to pass the renewable obligation,
> and sponsored the Tory party here.
> No, they are not a great company, they are just another German arm of
> the Mafia
> >

and, I understood, were responsible for the late opening of the Elizabeth
Line.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

SH

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 3:27:09 PM3/21/23
to
What is miles, feet, pounds and pints????

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 6:04:05 PM3/21/23
to
Imperial

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.


NY

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 7:25:10 PM3/21/23
to
On 21/03/2023 00:24, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:28:27 -0000, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> If I say 4 x 10^1, that means multiplying the 4 by the 10.  So if I say
> 4 x 10^-1, it's the same as taking the 4 and dividing it by 10.  So I
> guess it makes sense.  Simpler to say 4/10 though.
>
> I think I've seen m.s^-1 and m/s equally.  Although I've never known the
> dot between m and s.

Maybe the dot was a "funny" of the Nuffield O/A level physics text books.

>> And then we get onto the thorny issue of "traditional" versus IUPAC
>> names for chemical compounds - acetic versus ethanoic acid, isopropyl
>> alcohol versus propan-2-ol: the traditional names are more familiar but
>> the IUPAC names are more systematic and more accurately represent how
>> the atoms are arranged. Familiar versus Sunday-school names ;-)
>
> I prefer the new ones, they're more logical, although if I was old
> enough to have learned the old ones, I probably would end up still
> hanging onto them.  Just like I grew up with F, but started using C
> around the 0 mark, as it was easier for 0 to be freezing point.  So I'd
> say it's 70 degrees in the living room, but minus 4 outside, using F for
> inside and C for outside.  I now use C everywhere.  Rooms got a bit
> cooler, since I used to say 70 was room temperature, now I say 20.  SI
> units save power!

I've just turned 60 so I was doing organic chemistry in the 6th form in
about 1980. I'd heard a few traditional organic compounds such as
isopropyl alcohol, carbon tet(rachloride), formic acid, acetic acid. But
for most part organic names were brand new to me so I didn't have to
unlearn many traditional ones in order to learn IUPAC equivalents.

The changeover from deg F to deg C seemed remarkably painless. I'm sure
I learned Fahrenheit from my parents when I was a child, but even they
adapted very quickly to Celsius when newspapers and TV weather forecasts
changed.

Fahrenheit always struck me as a bodged job (like so much of the
imperial system) - it was a case of "what's the coldest and the hottest
temperatures we can create in the lab today? Right, let's call the
coldest one 0 and the hottest one 100. Oh, that makes ice freeze at 32
and water boil at 212." At least Celsius makes the freezing and boiling
point of the earth's most common liquid nice round numbers 0 and 100.

>> But the ultimate "grates like chalk on a blackboard"
>
> It doesn't, fingernails do.  I had a teacher who would do that to stop
> us chatting.  I had another who brought a huge wooden set square down on
> a desk with great force.  Although one day it split in half and one half
> flew across the room, missed the heads of a few kids who ducked, and
> cracked the window.  Instead of the usual "I like to make noise too!" he
> said "oh dear".

My old maths teacher (who died only last year, aged 101) was a rather
dour and irascible Irishman. But it was all an act: he had a well-hidden
wicked sense of humour. He had a huge wooden pair of compasses for
drawing circles on the blackboard. It had a metal spike on one end which
was protected by a rubber cork. One day he came to use the compasses and
stabbed himself on the spike. Quick as a flash he uttered the immortal
words "Who's stolen the rubber off my prick?"

> The only distance I remember was my PE teacher shouting at me "round the
> perimeter!" - a punishment for disobedience.  Since he was a bit queer,
> we used to call it "round the perimeter with your pants down!"  This was
> before peadophilophobia - one of my friends fucked a French teacher in
> the swimming pool.  Nothing was said.

Lucky friend. My school had very few women teachers. The art teacher was
scary as hell: drop-dead gorgeous, built like a catwalk model, with
immaculate clothing, makeup, hair, perfume. And yet (there's always an
"and yet"!) she failed, totally and utterly, with the sin of Trying Too
Hard, as she walked round with her head in the air exuding an aura of
"look at me". For me, anyone who has to *try* to look attractive, isn't;
attractive women don't have to try, they just are, innately. The art
teacher used to walk around the library when she was taking Private
Study, making almost inaudible orgasmic moans - very off-putting when
she leaned over over you, letting her long hair dangle on your cheek
while she looked at what you were reading, and moaned so softly that you
wondered whether you'd imagined it. She should have been the stuff of
every lad's wet dreams - but she wasn't. My chemistry teacher, on the
other hand, was small, rather plump, and had a strong Lancashire accent
that you could cut with a knife - but she was sex on legs, of the "she
doesn't have to try - she just is" variety.

Your PE story reminds me of cross-country running. This was supervised
by Bertie, the maths teacher I mentioned earlier. On a cold, foggy
afternoon, he would tick our names off while he was standing there in
his thick overcoat and scarf, "cloaked with his breath". Then he'd get
in his nice warm car and drive up to the war memorial to tick us all off
again as we passed on the return journey. Back at school, he'd deign to
get out of his car as the runners arrived back, to count us all back
into school. In the meantime, we'd had to brave all the hazards: being
stoned (I kid you not) by the local kids, splashing through the puddles
in the mud on the unmade road, trying not to puke as we went past the
glue factory where they boiled up animal carcases, avoiding being zapped
by the fizzing electricity pylons, dodging the guard dogs that ran out
of the car breaker's yard. When someone commented to Bertie that he had
the easy part of the deal, as he didn't even run with us, he gave an
evil but utterly disarming and sheepish grin and uttered the immortal
words "That's the privilege of age and experience, lads".

rbowman

unread,
Mar 21, 2023, 9:12:44 PM3/21/23
to
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 23:24:59 +0000, NY wrote:

> At least Celsius makes the freezing and boiling point of the
> earth's most common liquid nice round numbers 0 and 100.

I suppose you get used to it and it doesn't make all that much difference
in everyday life but the compression throws me.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 4:06:12 AM3/22/23
to
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 23:24:59 +0000, NY, the really endlessly blathering,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered, yet again:

> words "That's the privilege of age and experience, lads".

Like what, you verbose senile bullshit artist? Feeding the trolls? It's
definitely a senile thing!

Peeler

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 4:09:35 AM3/22/23
to
On 22 Mar 2023 01:12:36 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> I suppose you get used to it and it doesn't make all that much difference
> in everyday life but the compression throws me.

That would be stuff for another lengthy interesting senile "discussion"
between you endlessly blathering senile shitheads and the trolling wanker,
wouldn't it? <BG>

--
Yet more of the so very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"My family loaded me into a '51 Chevy and drove from NY to Seattle and
back in '52. I'm alive. The Chevy had a painted steel dashboard with two
little hand prints worn down to the primer because I liked to stand up
and lean on it to see where we were going."
MID: <j2kuc1...@mid.individual.net>

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 9:34:51 AM3/22/23
to
On 21/03/2023 23:24, NY wrote:
> Fahrenheit always struck me as a bodged job (like so much of the
> imperial system) - it was a case of "what's the coldest and the hottest
> temperatures we can create in the lab today? Right, let's call the
> coldest one 0 and the hottest one 100. Oh, that makes ice freeze at 32
> and water boil at 212." At least Celsius makes the freezing and boiling
> point of the earth's most common liquid nice round numbers 0 and 100.

AIUI It was 'the hottest and coldest temperatures recorded in Paris' or
somesuch

It has the virtue that temps down near 0 are BLOODY COLD and weather up
around the 100 mark is BLOODY HOT.



--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 9:36:23 AM3/22/23
to
Indeed you DO get used to it.

And its difficult to tell the difference between one celsius and the
next one up.

NY

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 10:06:44 AM3/22/23
to
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:tvf08h$l0k5$2...@dont-email.me...
> On 22/03/2023 01:12, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 23:24:59 +0000, NY wrote:
>>
>>> At least Celsius makes the freezing and boiling point of the
>>> earth's most common liquid nice round numbers 0 and 100.
>>
>> I suppose you get used to it and it doesn't make all that much difference
>> in everyday life but the compression throws me.
>
> Indeed you DO get used to it.
>
> And its difficult to tell the difference between one celsius and the next
> one up.

By "compression" do you mean the fact that the range from freezing to
boiling is only 100 degrees Celsius but is 180 degrees Fahrenheit?

Given that there are fewer degrees C than degrees F in a given range of
temperatures (so each degree is "bigger"), I'd have thought that a change
from n deg C to n+1 deg C would be *more* noticeable than a change from n
deg F to n+1 deg F.

I imagine that apart from in America, the number of people who still use and
prefer F to C is dwindling as older people (who know F) die off and new
people (who are brought up with C) are born.

I like a lot of things about "the way we sued to do it in the past" but I
draw the line at absurd systems of measurement like deg F, inches, feet,
yard, miles, ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweight which use every base
under the sun except the only one that matters - base 10 which we are taught
to calculate in. There are also units which have the same name but different
sizes: for example the apothecaries, troy and avoirdupois definitions of the
dram/drachm and ounce, and the UK and US definition of pint and gallon
having different numbers of fluid ounces. And the "little" problem that the
volumetric and linear measurements are not related by a simple integer: in
the UK, 1 gallon is 277.4 in^3
https://www.convertunits.com/from/cubic+inch/to/imperial+gallon. When I
wanted to estimate the weight of a full hot water cylinder (which was not
marked with its volume), having only an inches tape measure and no
calculator (and no access to a phone to phone-a-friend) I had to convert
everything to metric because I knew that 1000 cc was a litre whcih weighed a
kilogramme, whereas I hadn't the remotest idea of the imperial equivalent
cubic inches to gallons (where a gallon weighs 10 lb - I knew that bit).

Fredxx

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 11:23:21 AM3/22/23
to
Which in itself is quite a shame. Base 12 would be easier and I spend
too much time with hexadecimal!

> There are also units which have the same
> name but different sizes: for example the apothecaries, troy and
> avoirdupois definitions of the dram/drachm and ounce, and the UK and US
> definition of pint and gallon having different numbers of fluid ounces.
> And the "little" problem that the volumetric and linear measurements are
> not related by a simple integer: in the UK, 1 gallon is 277.4 in^3
> https://www.convertunits.com/from/cubic+inch/to/imperial+gallon. When I
> wanted to estimate the weight of a full hot water cylinder (which was
> not marked with its volume), having only an inches tape measure and no
> calculator (and no access to a phone to phone-a-friend) I had to convert
> everything to metric because I knew that 1000 cc was a litre whcih
> weighed a kilogramme, whereas I hadn't the remotest idea of the imperial
> equivalent cubic inches to gallons (where a gallon weighs 10 lb - I knew
> that bit).

There are also some issues over the mile, where there is more than one
standard: The US survey mile is 0.999998 statute mile.

The statute mile being exactly 1,609.344m

NY

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 11:54:23 AM3/22/23
to
"Fredxx" <fre...@spam.uk> wrote in message
news:tvf6cd$m3o2$1...@dont-email.me...
>> I like a lot of things about "the way we sued to do it in the past" but I
>> draw the line at absurd systems of measurement like deg F, inches, feet,
>> yard, miles, ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweight which use every base
>> under the sun except the only one that matters - base 10 which we are
>> taught to calculate in.
>
> Which in itself is quite a shame. Base 12 would be easier and I spend too
> much time with hexadecimal!

Yes, 12 has factors that are more similar (3, and 2 or 4) which allows
almost-square boxes when object are packaged in 12s, rather than long thin
2x5 boxes when they are packed in 10s.

12 is a great number. We should have adopted it as the base in which we
count and calculate, having invented two new symbols to denote what in base
10 we call 10 and 11 (the equivalents of A-F in hex).

But since we *aren't* taught to count/calculate in base 12, it is a right
PITA to work with quantities where there may be one or two digits in the
old-pence column and one or two digits in the shillings column, in £sd
calculations.

I suppose it's a matter of priorities: do you design a system where the
conversion from one unit to the next (pence to shillings to pounds, or
ounces to pounds-weight to stones) uses the *same* base (that we are taught
to count in), for ease of calculation, or do you design a system with a
variety of bases such that all the units are "human-sized".

For me, ease of calculation trumps all other conditions. Other people may
feel differently.


If we were to go back to the imperial system (as Jacob Rees-Mogg has
advocated) then two pre-conditions are:

- we teach children to count/calculate in base 12 (and maybe not teach base
10)
- we invent single-symbols to denote 10 and 11 (in base 10)

And we standardise on that one base: no more...

12 inches = 1 foot
3 feet = 1 yard
1760 yards (or 5280 feet or 63360 inches) = 1 mile

8 ounces = 1 lb
14 lb =1 stone
112 lb (or 8 stones) = 1 cwt
20 cwt = 1 ton

As it happens, I have committed the linear conversions to memory: 5280 feet
or 1760 yards or 63360 inches = 1 mile for quick conversion. 63360 sticks in
my mind because it is the scale factor for a 1-inch OS map and 63360/50000
is the scale factor to rescale a scan of a 1-inch map so it matches a
1:50000 map.

That 8 stones = 1 cwt is bloody scary - it means I'm getting on for 2 cwt in
weight so 10 of me would weigh a ton :-(

Max Demian

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 12:33:51 PM3/22/23
to
On 22/03/2023 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 21/03/2023 23:24, NY wrote:

>> Fahrenheit always struck me as a bodged job (like so much of the
>> imperial system) - it was a case of "what's the coldest and the
>> hottest temperatures we can create in the lab today? Right, let's call
>> the coldest one 0 and the hottest one 100. Oh, that makes ice freeze
>> at 32 and water boil at 212." At least Celsius makes the freezing and
>> boiling point of the earth's most common liquid nice round numbers 0
>> and 100.
>
> AIUI It was 'the hottest and coldest temperatures recorded in Paris' or
> somesuch

0 Fahrenheit is the freezing point of saturated brine; 100 F was Mr
Fahrenheit's "blood heat" (body core temperature); he had a fever at the
time.

"Degrees of frost" is an odd one: it's the number of Fahrenheit degrees
below 32 (freezing points). Do people use that in the US?

--
Max Demian

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 1:43:59 PM3/22/23
to
He has never advocated it. He merely remarked it shouldnt be illegal to
use it

> - we teach children to count/calculate in base 12 (and maybe not teach
> base 10)
> - we invent single-symbols to denote 10 and 11 (in base 10)
>
> And we standardise on that one base: no more...
>
> 12 inches = 1 foot
> 3 feet = 1 yard
> 1760 yards (or 5280 feet or 63360 inches) = 1 mile
>
Almost 64k inches
You left out rods poles or perches, chains and furlongs.
Not to menytion hands

> 8 ounces = 1 lb
> 14 lb =1 stone
> 112 lb (or 8 stones) = 1 cwt
> 20 cwt = 1 ton
>
> As it happens, I have committed the linear conversions to memory: 5280
> feet or 1760 yards or 63360 inches = 1 mile for quick conversion. 63360
> sticks in my mind because it is the scale factor for a 1-inch OS map and
> 63360/50000 is the scale factor to rescale a scan of a 1-inch map so it
> matches a 1:50000 map.
>
> That 8 stones = 1 cwt is bloody scary - it means I'm getting on for 2
> cwt in weight so 10 of me would weigh a ton :-(

I am managing to stay the south side of 13 stone.


--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

Cindy Hamilton

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 1:45:18 PM3/22/23
to
I've never heard of it. Seems like it's for people who are
uncomfortable with negative numbers.

--
Cindy Hamilton

NY

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 9:02:08 PM3/22/23
to
Yes, every "industry" devised its own units - eg rods, poles, perches,
chains for surveying and cricket pitches, and hands/furlongs for heights
of horses and lengths of horse racecourses. They didn't use the
standard, universally-understood inches, feet, yards.
>> That 8 stones = 1 cwt is bloody scary - it means I'm getting on for 2
>> cwt in weight so 10 of me would weigh a ton :-(
>
>  I am managing to stay the south side of 13 stone.

I used to be a bit heavier, then I had a heart attack and when I came
out of hospital several weeks later I had lost about 15 kg. Over the 12
years since then, even though I've tried to eat more healthily (*) and
to take more exercise (walking, cycling and even using a treadmill) the
weight has gradually crept up again. The other day I came across a pair
of trousers with 40" waist that I'd bought when I was at my
heaviest/biggest. It was gratifying to find that even though I'm bigger
than I was after hospital, those trouser are still too big - so I'm not
as big as I once was. But now the extra girth is in the dreaded region
from the bottom of my ribs to my waist: so my waist is fine (36") but my
belly hangs over it :-(

Why is it that all the nice food is fattening and all the good food (eg
vegetables) tastes vile? Dr Sod (of the Law) really *is* a sod.


(*) Hell, I even gave up eating doughnuts!

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 22, 2023, 11:41:31 PM3/22/23
to
NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote
> The Natural Philosopher wrote
>> NY wrote
>>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote

Roast potatoes aren't vile and neither are tomatoes.

rbowman

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 1:20:32 AM3/23/23
to
On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:06:47 -0000, NY wrote:

> By "compression" do you mean the fact that the range from freezing to
> boiling is only 100 degrees Celsius but is 180 degrees Fahrenheit?
>
> Given that there are fewer degrees C than degrees F in a given range of
> temperatures (so each degree is "bigger"), I'd have thought that a
> change from n deg C to n+1 deg C would be *more* noticeable than a
> change from n deg F to n+1 deg F.

Yes. The 9/5 or 5/9 however you want to look at it means 1 degree C is
roughly 2 degrees F. However unless you're looking at a thermometer of
some sort as you say can someone tell the difference between 1 degree in
either scale?

rbowman

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 1:22:41 AM3/23/23
to
On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:20:44 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

> There are also some issues over the mile, where there is more than one
> standard: The US survey mile is 0.999998 statute mile.

Ah, yes, that one. I do quite a bit of GIS work, often with the State
Plane Coordinate System.

rbowman

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 1:24:52 AM3/23/23
to
On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:54:27 -0000, NY wrote:


> But since we *aren't* taught to count/calculate in base 12, it is a
> right PITA to work with quantities where there may be one or two digits
> in the old-pence column and one or two digits in the shillings column,
> in £sd calculations.

My mother worked for a shirt manufacturer and brought home a mechanical
adding machine that had become obsolete. Being designed for a shirt
company it worked in dozens.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 5:28:48 AM3/23/23
to
On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 14:41:19 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
williamwright addressing Rodent Speed:
"This is getting beyond ridiculous now. You're trying to prove black's
white. You're arguing with someone who has been involved with the issues all
his working life when you clearly have no knowledge at all. I think you're
just being a pillock for the sake of it. You clearly don't actually believe
your own words. You must have a very empty life, and a sad embittered soul.
MID: <j08o6b...@mid.individual.net>

Peeler

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 5:29:40 AM3/23/23
to
On 23 Mar 2023 05:24:43 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> My mother

Blithering idiotic gossip! LOL

--
More of the pathological senile gossip's sick shit squeezed out of his sick
head:
"Skunk probably tastes like chicken. I've never gotten that comparison,
most famously with Chicken of the Sea. Tuna is a fish and tastes like a
fish. I will admit I've had chicken that tasted like fish. I don't think I
want to know what they were feeding it."
MID: <k44t5l...@mid.individual.net>

Peeler

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 5:31:05 AM3/23/23
to
On 23 Mar 2023 05:22:33 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> Ah, yes, that one. I do quite a bit of GIS work

So you say! But the ONLY thing you do is blather, drivel and gossip! NO time
for you to hold down a job as you keep claiming, you deranged bigmouth!

Peeler

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 5:32:58 AM3/23/23
to
On 23 Mar 2023 05:20:25 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> Yes. The 9/5 or 5/9 however you want to look at it means 1 degree C is
> roughly 2 degrees F.

It's yet more of your endless off topic senile shit that you keep trashing
these poor ngs with, you self-admiring, self-important senile cretin!

--
More typical idiotic senile gossip by lowbrowwoman:
"It's been years since I've been in a fast food burger joint but I used
to like Wendy's because they had a salad bar and baked potatoes."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>

NY

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 6:41:02 AM3/23/23
to
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:op.118pu...@pvr2.lan...

>> Why is it that all the nice food is fattening and all the good food (eg
>> vegetables) tastes vile?
>
> Roast potatoes aren't vile and neither are tomatoes.

Roast veg (carrots, parsnips - and potatoes) are lovely. As are raw carrots
or celery as a snack, though less so in combination with anything savoury.
It's boiled/steamed broccoli, beans, carrots, cauliflower (*), etc which
have such a strong "green veg" taste that they completely swamp everything
else. I've never really liked cooked veg, and after my heart attack my sense
of taste changed so veg tasted stronger and savoury meat etc was less strong
than before. Think of the sound of birdsong: perfectly audible... until
someone starts using a pneumatic drill ;-)

I eat my veg - but I get it out of the way first so it doesn't ruin the
enjoyable part of my meal.



(*) I think it's leaf/stem veg that I don't like, and root veg that I do.

NY

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Mar 23, 2023, 6:46:28 AM3/23/23
to
"rbowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message
news:k825so...@mid.individual.net...
Yes I agree. I was only puzzled because you seemed to imply that the
difference between adjacent deg C was less noticeable than between adjacent
deg F. Maybe I read something into your wording that you didn't intend.

Sensation of temperature is very subjective: I can feel cold when the room
is 25 deg C but I've been sitting still for a long time but warm at 18 deg C
if I've been active. And radiant heat from the sun through a window or from
a wood stove can sometimes make a cold room feel warm. The body is not a
good thermometer :-)

Cindy Hamilton

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 7:15:30 AM3/23/23
to
Cauliflower and broccoli (as well as other members of the cabbage
family) can be roasted or cooked by other dry heat methods. It
makes them sweeter and less watery. Just a brush of oil is all that's
really needed, although you can apply various spices if your palate
can handle them.

--
Cindy Hamilton

rbowman

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 9:10:51 AM3/23/23
to
On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 10:46:01 -0000, NY wrote:


> Yes I agree. I was only puzzled because you seemed to imply that the
> difference between adjacent deg C was less noticeable than between
> adjacent deg F. Maybe I read something into your wording that you didn't
> intend.

After a particularly cold winter 12 C and sunny was shirtsleeve weather
for my hike on Sunday. The upcoming Sunday is predicted to be 0 C with
possible snow. Ah, spring!

Peeler

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 11:18:06 AM3/23/23
to
On 23 Mar 2023 13:10:44 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> After a particularly cold winter 12 C and sunny was shirtsleeve weather
> for my hike on Sunday. The upcoming Sunday is predicted to be 0 C with
> possible snow. Ah, spring!

Fascinating! Just like everything you keep telling us about you! <EG>

--
More of the senile gossip's absolutely idiotic senile blather:
"I stopped for breakfast at a diner in Virginia when the state didn't do
DST. I remarked on the time difference and the crusty old waitress said
'We keep God's time in Virginia.'

I also lived in Ft. Wayne for a while."

MID: <t0tjfa$6r5$1...@dont-email.me>

Mark Lloyd

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 2:34:01 PM3/23/23
to
On 3/23/23 05:46, NY wrote:

[snip[

> Sensation of temperature is very subjective: I can feel cold when the
> room is 25 deg C but I've been sitting still for a long time but warm at
> 18 deg C if I've been active. And radiant heat from the sun through a
> window or from a wood stove can sometimes make a cold room feel warm.
> The body is not a good thermometer :-)

I remember going outside one day when the temperature was below freezing
and there was a lot of snow. No wind, and it was NOT cold (unless I
picked up some ice).

BTW, that was a strange day. It was hot earlier that afternoon.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"nullifidian n. & a. (Person) having no religious faith or belief," --
f. med. L nullifidius fr L nullus none + fides faith; see IAN

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 2:57:15 PM3/23/23
to
On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 21:40:58 +1100, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:op.118pu...@pvr2.lan...
>
>>> Why is it that all the nice food is fattening and all the good food
>>> (eg vegetables) tastes vile?
>>
>> Roast potatoes aren't vile and neither are tomatoes.
>
> Roast veg (carrots, parsnips - and potatoes) are lovely. As are raw
> carrots or celery as a snack, though less so in combination with
> anything savoury.

> It's boiled/steamed broccoli, beans, carrots, cauliflower (*), etc which
> have such a strong "green veg" taste that they completely swamp
> everything else.

I don't get that effect at all.

> I've never really liked cooked veg, and after my heart attack my sense
> of taste changed so veg tasted stronger and savoury meat etc was less
> strong than before.

Never got that effect with my heart attack.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 3:00:40 PM3/23/23
to
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 05:57:04 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 89-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

NY

unread,
Mar 23, 2023, 3:06:25 PM3/23/23
to
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:op.119v9...@pvr2.lan...
>> It's boiled/steamed broccoli, beans, carrots, cauliflower (*), etc which
>> have such a strong "green veg" taste that they completely swamp
>> everything else.
>
> I don't get that effect at all.
>
>> I've never really liked cooked veg, and after my heart attack my sense
>> of taste changed so veg tasted stronger and savoury meat etc was less
>> strong than before.
>
> Never got that effect with my heart attack.

It wasn't so much the heart attack itself as the cardiac arrest that went
with it: the brain being a bit starved of oxygen as my wife and the
ambulance crew struggled with CPR for over an hour to get my heart to beat
unaided (*). And then the effect of the drug-induced coma while I recovered
in intensive care: I was originally taken to York where my heart was "jump
started" but I then had to be taken to Leeds where they had a special ICU
designed to lower the body temperature for a period of time to aid recovery.

All in all, it's a minor miracle than I'm still here.


(*) Apparently they were eventually advised to bring me in to Casualty even
though I wasn't stabilised (normal paramedic advice is "stay and play"
rather than "scoop and run"). That was after I've been pumped with the
ambulance's entire supply of adrenaline, plus some more that was brought by
a backup ambulance.

Vir Campestris

unread,
Mar 24, 2023, 10:43:59 AM3/24/23
to
On 21/03/2023 22:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> What is miles, feet, pounds and pints????
> Imperial

A mile is about 1.609 km.
A foot is a little over 30cm.
A pound is about 454 grams.
A pint is 656ml in the UK.

Andy

Fredxx

unread,
Mar 24, 2023, 10:56:15 AM3/24/23
to
Even a UK pint is only 568ml. Which pint did you have in mind?

charles

unread,
Mar 24, 2023, 11:08:18 AM3/24/23
to
In article <tvkcv9$1mmhm$4...@dont-email.me>,
For most of us a UK pint is 568ml.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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