breaking up concrete (or cement?) with a sledgehammer.

[Micky]

An sort-of acquaintance posts:

I'd like to borrow a 20-pound sledgehammer
We're going to attempt some DIY concrete removal.

How much in square feet of a sidewalk could a healthy but not
especially strong man break up, before it would be essential to rent
an electric jack hammer.

Would a sledge work at all for this? Is their sidewalk or driveway
likely to be concrete, or cement?

OTOH, I tried an electric jack hammer once and I was tired literally
within 30 seconds iirc, but I was 67 years old and not in great shape.
This man is probably 30 or 35. I did break up about 2 square feet
in those 20 seconds. The contractor had started that portion so
there was room for my part to separate, if that is ever a problem. ??

So if one has to rest 4 minutes out of every 5, how much could he get
done with the EJH before he's totally pooped?

Is there a 3rd way?

Should I try to discourage them -- husband, but wife is posting --
from using the sledgehammer, or is the electric jack hammer even less
practical for them?

And why does Home Depot call them "breakers" now, and not jack
hammers.

[David L. Martel]

Micky,

20 lb sledge hammer? He'll be tired in no time. I've used a 5 lb sledge
for this. Maybe 3 min to break up a sq ft. Cleaning up the mess takes
forever.

Dave M.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

If you are worried about the work involved with just breaking it up -
you haven't thought about disposal yet ...
If you're hiring a man + machine to load & haul away - get him to
break it up with the machine ... bigger pieces & less handling &
time. Old home-poured concrete can be tough - full of stone and
extra thick ...
John T

[Mayayana]

| I'd like to borrow a 20-pound sledgehammer
| We're going to attempt some DIY concrete removal.
|
| How much in square feet of a sidewalk could a healthy but not
| especially strong man break up, before it would be essential to rent
| an electric jack hammer.
|

I think it all depends on the concrete. It
can vary a great deal. You'll just have to try
it and see.

[Vic Smith]

A plumber brought a compressor and a heavy jackhammer
to my former brick 2 -flat to go after the basement floor drain.
Ran the heavy hose from the compressor parked in the alley.
Lifted the jackhammer and set the chisel to the floor.
It went right through the floor before he could pull the trigger.
It was a dry mix floor, where they just lay down the concrete mix.
water it with a hose, and finish it.
Sidewalks are tougher.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 05:26:28 -0400, Micky
<NONONObobb...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are breaking up concrete you should try to lift up a corner and
break that off, working your way into the middle. That works if you
have a very long steel bar. When concrete is sitting in the bedding,
it is very tough (why you build a good base to begin with). If you can
even get it a quarter of an inch off the ground, it breaks pretty
easy.
It also helps if you have a concrete saw and you make smaller pieces
to start with.
Three guys broke up a 250 sq/ft slab at my house with rebar in it and
loaded it in a dumpster in about 3 hours
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addition/The%20wrecking%20crew.jpg

[Shade Tree Guy]

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 2:26:36 AM UTC-7, Micky wrote:

> OTOH, I tried an electric jack hammer once and I was tired literally
> within 30 seconds iirc, but I was 67 years old and not in great shape.
> This man is probably 30 or 35. I did break up about 2 square feet
> in those 20 seconds. The contractor had started that portion so
> there was room for my part to separate, if that is ever a problem. ??
>
> So if one has to rest 4 minutes out of every 5, how much could he get
> done with the EJH before he's totally pooped?

Anyone using a 60# electric yakhammer will soon realize it's become a #90 pound JH within 1/2 an hour (happened to me while breaking up several 200-300# fence post cement chunks a few Summers back
STG

[Dave C]

I have broken up concrete, using a (maybe) 10 pound maul. What I found
to ease the job was I lifted the concrete slabs, creating a 1 -> 2
inch gap between the concrete base and the ground. When I had a failed
side walk piece, there I just used a crow bar (resting on a small
brick) to lever/ pry that slab off the ground - then "pinned" up with
a couple of small bricks.

I had a much thicker, driveway section to remove. There I dug a small
edge side hole and used a 5 ton portable hand jack to elevate the
slab, then pinned it up.

In both cases, having that 1 -2 inch gap made the job a LOT easier, in
my opinion. Typically a few "slams" woud completely crack the
section. If the broken section are to large to handle, again create a
gap

[TomR]

In news:tloimbl49vge9ti7c...@4ax.com,
Dave C <da...@gmail.com> typed:

> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:29:02 -0500, Vic Smith
> <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 08:31:54 -0400, "Mayayana"
>> <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>
>>>> I'd like to borrow a 20-pound sledgehammer
>>>> We're going to attempt some DIY concrete removal.

> I have broken up concrete, using a (maybe) 10 pound maul. What I found
> to ease the job was I lifted the concrete slabs, creating a 1 -> 2
> inch gap between the concrete base and the ground. When I had a failed
> side walk piece, there I just used a crow bar (resting on a small
> brick) to lever/ pry that slab off the ground - then "pinned" up with
> a couple of small bricks.
>
> I had a much thicker, driveway section to remove. There I dug a small
> edge side hole and used a 5 ton portable hand jack to elevate the
> slab, then pinned it up.
>
> In both cases, having that 1 -2 inch gap made the job a LOT easier, in
> my opinion. Typically a few "slams" woud completely crack the
> section. If the broken section are to large to handle, again create a
> gap

I have done the same thing -- both the pry-up method and the bottle jack
method. I think the sledgehammer that I used (and still have) was 16 lb,
not 20 lb, but I am not sure.

I have also used bottle jacks to jack up a slab that was too low to make it
even with the adjacent slab. Then I placed a support or two under it to
keep it level, then filled in underneath the slab with dirt and a water hose
and let it dry out, then removed the temporary supports. For smaller slabs,
like section of a sidewalk, just a crowbar as a lever worked.

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 6/21/2016 2:26 AM, Micky wrote:
> An sort-of acquaintance posts:
>
> I'd like to borrow a 20-pound sledgehammer
> We're going to attempt some DIY concrete removal.

Are you man enough to lift twenty pounds?
It's called concrete, and those studly Romans used a lotta it.

[Checkmate, DoW #1]

In article <K4xaz.18514$YA6....@fx06.iad>, burke...@t-girls.com
says...

Real men use a big-ass jackhammer with a bull point.

--

Checkmate, AUK DoW #1, new Honorary FNVW of AUK, and Fakey's master
AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012 (Pre-Burnore)
Destroyer of the AUK Ko0k Vote (Post-Burnore)
Originator of the "Dance for me" (tm) lame
Copyright © 2016
all rights reserved

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdyBYSuqQBQ&feature=youtu.be

[DerbyDad03]

I had to expose a in-slab drain in order to move a basement shower. I tried
to open the slab with a big sledge, then with a small sledge and cold chisel.
No way! When I mentioned my problem to a neighbor, he said a very wise thing:

"If you're working too hard, you're probably using the wrong tool."

The next day he brought home an electric jackhammer from work. I had it
back to him a couple of hours later. It was sweet!

[HerHusband]

> How much in square feet of a sidewalk could a healthy but not
> especially strong man break up, before it would be essential to rent
> an electric jack hammer.
> Would a sledge work at all for this? Is their sidewalk or driveway
> likely to be concrete, or cement?
> OTOH, I tried an electric jack hammer once and I was tired literally
> within 30 seconds iirc, but I was 67 years old and not in great shape.
> This man is probably 30 or 35.

Concrete is strong in compression, but quite weak in tension (if there's no
reinforcing bar).

If the slab is resting firmly on the ground, you could probably beat on it
all day with a sledge and just chip away at the surface.

However, if you can pry up sections of the sidewalk so it is unsupported in
the middle, you should be able to hit the middle of that section with a
small sledge and break it easily. I easily broke up about 80 sq/ft of
walkway at my in-laws with this technique. It took me less than two hours
using nothing but a shovel and a 4 pound sledge (I was in my late 40's at
the time). This method worked because the sidewalk was made of 2'x2'
squares that were easy to lift and crack.

Last week I needed to move a 2'x3'x4" concrete step away from my pump
house. I flipped it over to get it out of the way and it landed on a rock.
It cracked into two pieces just from it's own weight. Kind of a bummer
actually, as I was planning to reuse that small slab. :)

> Is there a 3rd way?

Drill and split?

I had to remove a 3'x8' slab last year that was about 5-6" thick and
reinforced with three runs of rebar. I wasn't in a rush and didn't want to
spend money renting a jack hammer. So, I used my rotary hammer to drill a
series of holes, then used feathers and wedges to crack off chunks of the
slab. It only took me a few hours (spread out over a couple days), to break
up the slab. The hard part was loading up all the concrete chunks and
wheeling them away:

http://www.watsondiy.com/20150912-patio.htm

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

[Moe DeLoughan]

On 6/21/2016 4:26 AM, Micky wrote:
> An sort-of acquaintance posts:
>
> I'd like to borrow a 20-pound sledgehammer
> We're going to attempt some DIY concrete removal.
>
> How much in square feet of a sidewalk could a healthy but not
> especially strong man break up, before it would be essential to rent
> an electric jack hammer.
>
> Would a sledge work at all for this? Is their sidewalk or driveway
> likely to be concrete, or cement?
>
> OTOH, I tried an electric jack hammer once and I was tired literally
> within 30 seconds iirc, but I was 67 years old and not in great shape.
> This man is probably 30 or 35.

> Is there a 3rd way?

I had a sidewalk that wrapped around three sides of the house. I
hired a couple of guys to get rid of it for me. They showed up with a
dumptruck and a bobcat with a jackhammer attachment. The bobcat's
jackhammer made incredibly short work of breaking up the concrete.
They then put the bucket back onto the bobcat, scooped up the
concrete, and dropped it into the dump truck. Took them less than an
hour. $300.00, and worth every penny to me.

Check your local rental place and find out how much they'd charge for
a bobcat with a jackhammer attachment. Your guy will have a ball
playing with it.

[Tekkie®]

Moe DeLoughan posted for all of us...

+1 It's brutal work without the proper equipment.

--
Tekkie

[Micky]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:20:36 -0500, Moe DeLoughan <m...@notmine.null>
wrote:

>On 6/21/2016 4:26 AM, Micky wrote:
>> An sort-of acquaintance posts:
>>
>> I'd like to borrow a 20-pound sledgehammer
>> We're going to attempt some DIY concrete removal.
>>
>> How much in square feet of a sidewalk could a healthy but not
>> especially strong man break up, before it would be essential to rent
>> an electric jack hammer.
>>
>> Would a sledge work at all for this? Is their sidewalk or driveway
>> likely to be concrete, or cement?
>>
>> OTOH, I tried an electric jack hammer once and I was tired literally
>> within 30 seconds iirc, but I was 67 years old and not in great shape.
>> This man is probably 30 or 35.
>
>> Is there a 3rd way?
>
>I had a sidewalk that wrapped around three sides of the house. I
>hired a couple of guys to get rid of it for me. They showed up with a
>dumptruck and a bobcat with a jackhammer attachment. The bobcat's

I've seen at least one of those. Amazing what people think of.

When I was in Nicaragua in 1970, a guy was breaking up a cement
sidewalk with a 6' metal rod, about the diameter of rebar or less. I
wonder how long that took him.

>jackhammer made incredibly short work of breaking up the concrete.
>They then put the bucket back onto the bobcat, scooped up the
>concrete, and dropped it into the dump truck. Took them less than an
>hour. $300.00, and worth every penny to me.

I'd think so too.

I think these people are short of money, but I don't know.

Originally I was giving away some fertilizer I realize I'll never use.
She was one of two people who wanted it, and there were 6+ bags so I
was going to split it. We had some sort of disagreement because I
wanted her to call me to on the phone to say when she or her husband
was coming. The phone is a lot faster than email, and I don't text.

But I still left open the possibility of email, and then she ignored
me for a week, and when I emailed to ask if she still wanted it, I
don't know what happened but she said she didn't want it anymore. She
was brusque. I'm sure I didn't do anything really wrong, but some
time I'll read all the emails again and try to figure out what
antagonized her. (She said "My life does not allow me to make many
phone calls. I can text and email.". Maybe she's deaf and doesn't
want to say so, and I guess her husband and her kids are too. But if
she's so deaf she can't use a phone, all her friends etc. must know.)

But I'm not vindictive, plus I owed her because she gave me a computer
speakerphone years ago, and when she wanted a sledgehammer, I was
going to lend her mine. I don't know if it's 20 pounds but it's
heavy.

But I thought she needed some (unsolicited) advice too. I don't think
her husband is really trained on this stuff. So I sent what advice I
knew, and she wrote back that someone else had already lent them the
sledge, and didn't thank me for the advice, or my renewed offer of the
fertilizer. I'm glad *I'm* not married to her. All the more reason
I don't want to see the guy break his back.

But still, I'm going to add up all these posts and my first one, but
not this one, remove all your names and email addresses, and sent it
to them, hopefully tonight. I'm sure they haven't started yet, and I
think there's something doing tomorrow so they probably won't start
until Sunday at the earliest.

>Check your local rental place and find out how much they'd charge for
>a bobcat with a jackhammer attachment. Your guy will have a ball
>playing with it.

I'm sure you're right.

I don't even know if they have 6 ft2 or the whole driveway to do.

[Micky]

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:00:11 -0400, Dave C <da...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:29:02 -0500, Vic Smith
><thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 08:31:54 -0400, "Mayayana"
>><maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>
>>>| I'd like to borrow a 20-pound sledgehammer
>>>| We're going to attempt some DIY concrete removal.
>>>|
>>>| How much in square feet of a sidewalk could a healthy but not
>>>| especially strong man break up, before it would be essential to rent
>>>| an electric jack hammer.
>>>|
>>>
>>> I think it all depends on the concrete. It
>>>can vary a great deal. You'll just have to try
>>>it and see.
>>>
>>
>>A plumber brought a compressor and a heavy jackhammer
>>to my former brick 2 -flat to go after the basement floor drain.
>>Ran the heavy hose from the compressor parked in the alley.
>>Lifted the jackhammer and set the chisel to the floor.
>>It went right through the floor before he could pull the trigger.

Wow.

>>It was a dry mix floor, where they just lay down the concrete mix.
>>water it with a hose, and finish it.

We put in thin posts that way. Since it was hard to get water,
eEventually we stopped watering them and let the moisture in the dirt
do it. But I never heard of a whole floor before.

>>Sidewalks are tougher.
>
>
>I have broken up concrete, using a (maybe) 10 pound maul. What I found
>to ease the job was I lifted the concrete slabs, creating a 1 -> 2
>inch gap between the concrete base and the ground. When I had a failed
>side walk piece, there I just used a crow bar (resting on a small
>brick) to lever/ pry that slab off the ground - then "pinned" up with
>a couple of small bricks.
>
>I had a much thicker, driveway section to remove. There I dug a small
>edge side hole and used a 5 ton portable hand jack to elevate the
>slab, then pinned it up.
>
>In both cases, having that 1 -2 inch gap made the job a LOT easier, in
>my opinion. Typically a few "slams" woud completely crack the
>section. If the broken section are to large to handle, again create a
>gap

I'll tell them about this, and everything else mentioned here.

Thank you all.

[Micky]

That's the neighbor to have. And it sounds like he works in the place
I'd want my n'bor to work. My n'bor has an old pickup truck and a
nice car. When he moved in, my first selfish thought was, Hey, maybe
I can borrow the truck. But he got mad at me for some reason,
woudn't tell me why, wouldn't say yes or no when I guessed, and he's
not lendin' me nuttin.

[Micky]

I believe it. Muscles only do so much, at least until tomorrow or
the next day.

[Micky]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 04:12:33 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
<unk...@unknown.com> wrote:

>
>I had to remove a 3'x8' slab last year that was about 5-6" thick and
>reinforced with three runs of rebar. I wasn't in a rush and didn't want to
>spend money renting a jack hammer. So, I used my rotary hammer to drill a
>series of holes, then used feathers and wedges to crack off chunks of the
>slab. It only took me a few hours (spread out over a couple days), to break
>up the slab. The hard part was loading up all the concrete chunks and
>wheeling them away:
>
>http://www.watsondiy.com/20150912-patio.htm

Very good. You do good work.

Nice looking family, too.
>
>Anthony Watson