Re: v for frequency?

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 05:16:00 +1000, John Larkin
<jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 29 May 2023 19:31:31 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Am 29.05.23 um 16:22 schrieb John Larkin:
>> hem" ?
>>>
>>> I wonder what French or Italian or English cheese was like 500 years
>>> ago. I know that many dairy products transmitted diseases.
>>
>> As our Latin teacher told us more than once, that "caseus" was
>> the ONLY loanword the Romans took into Latin from Germanic tribes.
>>
>>> (In the US, most states require all dairy products to be pasteurized
>>> or equivalent.)
>>
>> 10 min. under a cobalt source???
>
>
> Cheese here has to be made from pasteurized milk (flash heated, like
> 72c for 15 seconds) or aged for at least 60 days to let most of the
> bugs die out.
>
> Milk was once a major vector for tuberculosis and some other nasties.

> There are occasional fads here for raw milk,

Yes.

> typically with
> unfortunate side effects, like dead babies.

BULLSHIT.

> Odwalla killed some people
> with unpasteurized fruit juices too.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 05:40:39 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$.d...@sqwertz.com>

[Fredxx]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35277846/

Once again you show yourself up in a silly knee-jerk answer.

[Rod Speed]

Says nothing even remotely like TYPICALLY, fuckwit.

[Fredxx]

As usual the signs of another lost argument. Perhaps you didn't/can't
read the bit, "17 deaths, and seven fetal losses".

[Rod Speed]

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

> Perhaps you didn't/can't read the bit, "17 deaths, and seven fetal
> losses".

Still nothing even remotely like TYPICALLY, fuckwit.

[John Larkin]

The raw milk fads are usually, ie typically, ended by publicity about
illness and deaths.

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 10:55:34 +1000, John Larkin

Sure, but your original claim that those who use
raw milk typically get that result is just plain wrong.

That clearly didnt happen with those who had their own cow(s) or goats.

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 14:36:41 +1000, "Rod Speed"

I claimed nothing of the sort. Read what I said.

>
>That clearly didnt happen with those who had their own cow(s) or goats.

Sometimes it did.

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 15:14:47 +1000, John Larkin

Here is what you said, again.

>>>>>>>>> There are occasional fads here for raw milk,

>>>>>>>>> typically with
>>>>>>>>> unfortunate side effects, like dead babies.

Even you should be able to see the word TYPICALLY there.

>> That clearly didnt happen with those who had their own cow(s) or goats.

> Sometimes it did.

Not TYPICALLY it didnt.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:00:39 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

[Peeler]

"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 15:50:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"

The raw milk and unpasteurized cheese fads here did typically die out
when deaths got publicity. I've seen that happen a couple of times.

>
>>> That clearly didnt happen with those who had their own cow(s) or goats.
>
>> Sometimes it did.
>
>Not TYPICALLY it didnt.

In the All Creatures Great and Small series, entire herds were killed
to eliminate TB. That's in the Herriot books and the PBS series.

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 19:23:19 +1000, John Larkin

Thats not what the word typically was referring too.

> I've seen that happen a couple of times.

>>>> That clearly didnt happen with those who had their own cow(s) or
>>>> goats.
>>
>>> Sometimes it did.
>>
>> Not TYPICALLY it didnt.
>
> In the All Creatures Great and Small series, entire herds were killed
> to eliminate TB. That's in the Herriot books and the PBS series.

Irrelevant to whether the use of raw mild from your own cow
TYPICALLY killed those do use the milk from their own cow.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 19:55:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Ed Pawlowski addressing Rodent Speed:
"You come across as a "know it all" and superior to the mere mortals. I bet
your farts don't stink either."
MID: <6UnrL.207334$8_id....@fx09.iad>

[Cindy Hamilton]

Brucellosis is a crowd-pleaser as well. It's mostly passed by
drinking unpasteurized milk and eating soft cheeses from infected
milk.

"The consequences of Brucella infection are highly variable and may
include arthritis, spondylitis, thrombocytopenia, meningitis, uveitis,
optic neuritis, endocarditis, and various neurological disorders
collectively known as neurobrucellosis."

No, thanks.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[The Natural Philosopher]

These days ALL herds at least in the UK are TT - tuberculin tested.
And if some errant badger has passed it on they kill the herd instead of
the badger, sadly.

I've never heard of ANY cases of brucella in the UK. Listeria perhaps.
In any case these are all bacterial infections, treatable with
antibiotics, that you are far more likely to catch from other sources
than raw milk...



--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

[John Larkin]

In reading 18th and 19th century novels, it's shocking how usual death
was.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Christ how old are you? I was about age 7 when I read the saccharine
'Secret Garden' in which a girl is orphaned by her parents dying of cholera.
TB was a major cause of young death - half the bloody Romantics died of it.

Women would fall pregnant 10-12 times, if they survived, and be happy to
see 4-5 live to teenage years. And maybe two to three beyond 30,.

I am genuinely astonished that all this is new to you.


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

[Joe]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 07:25:50 -0700
John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:


>
> In reading 18th and 19th century novels, it's shocking how usual death
> was.
>

The problem with the currently fashionable Bowdlerisation of old
fiction is that a lot of the material removed is the kind of thing that
gives readers a feel for the time in which it was set, and often,
written. The language used and the general public feeling for various
matters that are different today are exactly the kind of things
necessary to get a feel for the characters and the world in which they
lived.

A lot of real-world history, which perhaps is not often recorded by
historians, can be found in period fiction. Thanks to Conan Doyle, who
is unlikely to be 'revised', we know that in Victoria's reign the
profession of GP was an honourable but not a particularly well-paid one,
and that a letter posted in London might well be delivered in another
part of London a few hours later.

--
Joe

[SteveW]

I've seen letters in Manchester's Museum of Science and Industry, that
show that in Victorian times, it was possible for a solicitor in
Manchester to post a letter to a solicitor in Liverpool and not only
expect it to be delivered that day, but for the reply to be received by
close of business that day!

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/05/2023 15:53, Joe wrote:

> On Tue, 30 May 2023 07:25:50 -0700
> John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> In reading 18th and 19th century novels, it's shocking how usual death
>> was.
>>
>
> The problem with the currently fashionable Bowdlerisation of old
> fiction is that a lot of the material removed is the kind of thing that
> gives readers a feel for the time in which it was set, and often,
> written. The language used and the general public feeling for various
> matters that are different today are exactly the kind of things
> necessary to get a feel for the characters and the world in which they
> lived.

Oh god yes. I have only ever been really shocked by one Edwardian novel
- The Hero 'Bulldog' Drummond 'blacks up' to successfully disguise
himself as a black servant, who is simply beneath notice.
He berates the bad guys by saying. "You shouldn't have looked at the
colour, because *only niggers smell*". Presumably he had on his best
deodorant and after shave.

Wow!

In fact most of the Edwardian and late Victorian authors present
extremely sympathetic picturing of 'other races' as did Mark Twain.

>
> A lot of real-world history, which perhaps is not often recorded by
> historians, can be found in period fiction. Thanks to Conan Doyle, who
> is unlikely to be 'revised', we know that in Victoria's reign the
> profession of GP was an honourable but not a particularly well-paid one,
> and that a letter posted in London might well be delivered in another
> part of London a few hours later.
>

Try 'Hatters Castle' by A J Kronin - the man who gave us Dr Finlay's
Casebook et al. As a narrative describing the effects of chronic mercury
poisoning on a rigid fundamental Christian Scottish family, with a wife
dead years ago, it makes stark reading.

A far better case can be made for Beatrix Potters wholesale ripoff of
'the tales of Uncle Remus' in creating her toxic bunnies.


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

[Max Demian]

I don't doubt that, but I don't think novels are a good source of such
information. In old stories people were always catching a "chill" and
dying, which doesn't really happen.

--
Max Demian

[Max Demian]

The lesson from that novel would be that a disability can be cured by a
magic garden.

> TB was a major cause of young death - half the bloody Romantics died of it.

Yes, TB was a very romantic disease.

--
Max Demian

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-05-30, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 30/05/2023 15:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 30/05/2023 15:25, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 May 2023 13:14:07 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
>>> <hami...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-05-30, John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> In the All Creatures Great and Small series, entire herds were killed
>>>>> to eliminate TB. That's in the Herriot books and the PBS series.
>>>>
>>>> Brucellosis is a crowd-pleaser as well.  It's mostly passed by
>>>> drinking unpasteurized milk and eating soft cheeses from infected
>>>> milk.
>>>>
>>>> "The consequences of Brucella infection are highly variable and may
>>>> include arthritis, spondylitis, thrombocytopenia, meningitis, uveitis,
>>>> optic neuritis, endocarditis, and various neurological disorders
>>>> collectively known as neurobrucellosis."
>>>>
>>>> No, thanks.
>>>
>>> In reading 18th and 19th century novels, it's shocking how usual death
>>> was.
>>>
>> Christ how old are you? I was about age 7 when I read the saccharine
>> 'Secret Garden' in which a girl is orphaned by her parents dying of
>> cholera.
>
> The lesson from that novel would be that a disability can be cured by a
> magic garden.

It's been a long time since I read "The Secret Garden", but wasn't
it the case that the boy who was cured by the "magic" garden in
fact wasn't disabled at all? Purely psychosomatic.

>> TB was a major cause of young death - half the bloody Romantics died of it.
>
> Yes, TB was a very romantic disease.

Heh. Good one.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well in essence it does.

If you have a viral lung infection, and get cold, you end up with viral
pneumonia and possibly bacterial secondary infections. It is well known
that virus thrive in particular temperature and humidity conditions.



--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/05/2023 16:36, Max Demian wrote:
> On 30/05/2023 15:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 30/05/2023 15:25, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 May 2023 13:14:07 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
>>> <hami...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-05-30, John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com>
>>>> wrote:
>
>>>>> In the All Creatures Great and Small series, entire herds were killed
>>>>> to eliminate TB. That's in the Herriot books and the PBS series.
>>>>
>>>> Brucellosis is a crowd-pleaser as well.  It's mostly passed by
>>>> drinking unpasteurized milk and eating soft cheeses from infected
>>>> milk.
>>>>
>>>> "The consequences of Brucella infection are highly variable and may
>>>> include arthritis, spondylitis, thrombocytopenia, meningitis, uveitis,
>>>> optic neuritis, endocarditis, and various neurological disorders
>>>> collectively known as neurobrucellosis."
>>>>
>>>> No, thanks.
>>>
>>> In reading 18th and 19th century novels, it's shocking how usual death
>>> was.
>>>
>> Christ how old are you? I was about age 7 when I read the saccharine
>> 'Secret Garden' in which a girl is orphaned by her parents dying of
>> cholera.
>
> The lesson from that novel would be that a disability can be cured by a
> magic garden.
>

Try reading it.
The lesson is that snoflakes are always whining and encouraging others
to whine even when there is nothing wrong

>> TB was a major cause of young death - half the bloody Romantics died
>> of it.
>
> Yes, TB was a very romantic disease.
>

What an unbelievably stupid comment.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Correct.
And the garden wasn't magic. Merely locked up.

>>> TB was a major cause of young death - half the bloody Romantics died of it.
>>
>> Yes, TB was a very romantic disease.
>
> Heh. Good one.
>

Rather stupid one.
If you are interested in the real facts rather than snide comments try this

https://aeon.co/ideas/how-a-generation-of-consumptives-defined-19th-century-romanticism

I accept that Romanticism was largely a European movement, so you can be
excused not knowing what I was talking about


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

[John Larkin]

No, that was popular in novels but cold showers aren't big killers.

But the old novels were full of death, young widows and widowers and
dead children. That was real.

Life spans, from birth, have roughly doubled since Pride and Prejudice
was published. About half of newborns didn't survive to 5.

[Fredxx]

On 30/05/2023 15:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Once again you spout unadulterated crap. Research your claims before
engaging hand to keyboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

gives an overview where death in infancy was common place, but as soon
as you had attained age of 15+ life expectancy would be good and
generally in the 50s. And That would be the mean age!

I can assure you better than 2-3 living beyond 30 out of 4-5 would have
made it from their teenage years.

There might be better articles, this was simply the first I could find
to debunk your silly claims.

> I am genuinely astonished that all this is new to you.

We're all accustomed to the drivel you spout.

[Joe]

It was sufficiently common to treat it lightly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_Round_the_Daffodils

--
Joe

[The Natural Philosopher]

"In 1801 up to a third of Londoners died from TB"
Yeah, very lightly I am sure.

People today just don't know what poverty and pollution are.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 00:25:50 +1000, John Larkin

But that wasnt due to them using exclusively raw milk.

And farm boy memoirs are a FAR better source than novels.

[Peeler]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 04:36:11 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Pomegranate Bastard addressing the trolling senile cretin from Oz:
"I repeat, you are a complete and utter imbecile."
MID: <mpelth1engag7090p...@4ax.com>

[Rod Speed]

Nope.

> If you have a viral lung infection, and get cold, you end up with viral
> pneumonia and possibly bacterial secondary infections. It is well known
> that virus thrive in particular temperature and humidity conditions.

But what killed you was the virus, not a 'chill'

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 02:51:26 +1000, John Larkin

But due to TB and no antibiotics, not due to them using raw milk.

> Life spans, from birth, have roughly doubled since Pride and Prejudice
> was published. About half of newborns didn't survive to 5.

But they weren't killed by raw milk.

[Peeler]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:22:17 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rodent Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:51 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jt...@mid.individual.net>

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"

Some certainly were. Are you a raw milk fan?

google childhood deaths unpasteurized milk

Are you a raw milk fan?

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 04:36:11 +1000, "Rod Speed"

I never said anything that silly.

>
>And farm boy memoirs are a FAR better source than novels.

Actually, many of the novelists died young too.

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 06:49:19 +1000, John Larkin

Not TYPICALLY they weren't.

> Are you a raw milk fan?

Nope, dont in fact bother with milk at all anymore.

> google childhood deaths unpasteurized milk

Nowhere does that say that drink raw milk
TYPICALLY results in being killed by it.

> Are you a raw milk fan?

Nope, dont in fact bother with milk at all anymore.

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 07:42:08 +1000, John Larkin

You clearly did say

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are occasional fads here for raw milk,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typically with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunate side effects, like dead babies.

>> And farm boy memoirs are a FAR better source than novels.

> Actually, many of the novelists died young too.

But not from using RAW milk.

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 07:53:44 +1000, "Rod Speed"

Nowhere. That would be silly.

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 08:47:18 +1000, John Larkin

>> Nowhere does that say that drinking rawmilk TYPICALLY results in being

>> killed by it.
>
> Nowhere. That would be silly.

Then why did you say that ?

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 09:19:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"

I didn't.

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:10:19 +1000, John Larkin

Yes you did.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not especially. I just noted that raw milk cheese is available, and I
buy it sometimes.


--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

[Peeler]

"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

--
Bod addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
MID: <gfbb94...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 07:56:34 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH 159 !!! lines of trollshit unread again>

[Max Demian]

On 30/05/2023 16:41, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

Could make people (i.e. the child readers) think that all similar
disabilities are psychosomatic.

--
Max Demian

[Max Demian]

"Romantic" as in "common in romances" i.e. stories.

--
Max Demian

[Max Demian]

Yes, it's a common idea that, e.g. stoneagers didn't live past their
twenties. I suppose it's due to a sentimental attachment to childhood.
You might as well say that fish fry only live a few hours as most are
gulped up as soon as they hatch.

--
Max Demian

[Cindy Hamilton]

Children think Santa Claus is real.

Eventually most of us grow up.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-05-31, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

"Romantic" as in:

"Romanticism, first defined as an aesthetic in literary criticism around
1800, gained momentum as an artistic movement in France and Britain in
the early decades of the nineteenth century and flourished until
mid-century."

Byron, Shelley, Keats, Blake

--
Cindy Hamilton

[The Natural Philosopher]

That is not what 'Romantic' means, Humpty Dumpty.

And romances are not just 'stories' Any more than a Koenigsegg is 'just'
a 'car.'

TB, like sex was common in life. And a highly emotional thing. Naturally
it featured in *emotional* stories.

But the *Romantics* were a very special movement, and if you didn't
bother to read the links I posted then you are not worth arguing with.


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Thank You, Cindy. That is a very short and rather limited, but accurate
as far as it goes, description. My mistake was assuming that 'everybody
knew that already'

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its more nuanced than that. Certainly infant mortality was high, still
births common, but then you had to run the gauntlet of all the childhood
diseases that were rampant, that you had little or no resistance to and
no vaccines for. If you survived measles, mumps, German measles, Scarlet
fever and didn't catch polio, meningitis, small pox cholera, typhus,
typhoid, die from food poisoning or massive bacterial infections after
scratching yourself on a pitchfork... you could still die from a myriad
other causes in your teens twenties thirties and forties, and if you
lived to 50, then if cancer didn't get you heart disease probably would.

I got a massive abscess in my neck after handling some rock wool, in S
Africa. I asked the doctor who lanced it cleaned it and gave me the
antibiotics 'what most patients came in for' And his answer was telling
'Raging bacterial infection, like yours, Prior to antibiotics that would
have been life threatening'

We forget that the 19th century was absolutely full of things that could
easily kill you, and did, at *any* age: Being run over by a horse was
far more common than road accidents today. As was dying in childbirth in
your teens twenties and thirties.

Technically, shorn of accidents, people could easily live to 60 or 70,
before succumbing to 'diseases of the old' but that doesn't mean that
many actually did.

The chances that something would get you meant that the overwhelming
majority didn't make it past 25.


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

[The Natural Philosopher]

I don't recall I ever did. As the youngest in the family with fairly
vindictive older sisters, they made sure I was disillusioned.

> Eventually most of us grow up.
>

Although an alarming number do not, and most people have at least one
unresolved childhood issue.


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

[Max Demian]

I am. Anything you do to milk impairs the flavour. And as for modern,
homogenised, "standardised" milk. Just white water.

--
Max Demian

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:33:42 GMT, Cindy Hamilton

Kids like sweet stories with happy endings. And presents under the
tree.

>
>Eventually most of us grow up.

Yes, they can wait until college to major in psychology and anger and
despair.

[John Larkin]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6390731/

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 14:16:01 +0100, Max Demian
<max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On 30/05/2023 21:49, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 02:51:26 +1000, John Larkin
>>> <jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Life spans, from birth, have roughly doubled since Pride and Prejudice
>>>> was published. About half of newborns didn't survive to 5.
>>>
>>> But they weren't killed by raw milk.
>>
>> Some certainly were. Are you a raw milk fan?
>>
>> google childhood deaths unpasteurized milk
>>
>> Are you a raw milk fan?
>
>I am. Anything you do to milk impairs the flavour.

Like making yogurt or ice cream?

And as for modern,
>homogenised, "standardised" milk. Just white water.

Doesn't taste like water.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Excellent reference. Thank you

[Max Demian]

On 31/05/2023 15:27, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2023 14:16:01 +0100, Max Demian
> <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On 30/05/2023 21:49, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 02:51:26 +1000, John Larkin
>>>> <jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Life spans, from birth, have roughly doubled since Pride and Prejudice
>>>>> was published. About half of newborns didn't survive to 5.
>>>>
>>>> But they weren't killed by raw milk.
>>>
>>> Some certainly were. Are you a raw milk fan?
>>>
>>> google childhood deaths unpasteurized milk
>>>
>>> Are you a raw milk fan?
>>
>> I am. Anything you do to milk impairs the flavour.
>
> Like making yogurt or ice cream?

I'm talking about products that still call themselves milk. I like ice
cream, double cream, butter and cheese.

> And as for modern,
>> homogenised, "standardised" milk. Just white water.
>
> Doesn't taste like water.

Doesn't taste much like "raw" (i.e. actual) milk.

--
Max Demian

[Martin Brown]

On 31/05/2023 15:27, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2023 14:16:01 +0100, Max Demian
> <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> On 30/05/2023 21:49, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 02:51:26 +1000, John Larkin
>>>> <jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Life spans, from birth, have roughly doubled since Pride and Prejudice
>>>>> was published. About half of newborns didn't survive to 5.
>>>>
>>>> But they weren't killed by raw milk.
>>>
>>> Some certainly were. Are you a raw milk fan?
>>>
>>> google childhood deaths unpasteurized milk
>>>
>>> Are you a raw milk fan?
>>
>> I am. Anything you do to milk impairs the flavour.
>
> Like making yogurt or ice cream?

Making it into Hershey bars - the world's only vomit flavoured chocolate
that somehow they conned Americans into buying. Milk supply was always a
bit rancid so they made a feature out of it - very cunning marketing!

> And as for modern,
>> homogenised, "standardised" milk. Just white water.
>
> Doesn't taste like water.

Doesn't taste like milk either after it has been sterilised and then
homogenised to something more resembling an inert white paint.

--
Martin Brown

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 14:14:53 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 31/05/2023 15:27, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 14:16:01 +0100, Max Demian
>> <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/05/2023 21:49, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 02:51:26 +1000, John Larkin
>>>>> <jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Life spans, from birth, have roughly doubled since Pride and Prejudice
>>>>>> was published. About half of newborns didn't survive to 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they weren't killed by raw milk.
>>>>
>>>> Some certainly were. Are you a raw milk fan?
>>>>
>>>> google childhood deaths unpasteurized milk
>>>>
>>>> Are you a raw milk fan?
>>>
>>> I am. Anything you do to milk impairs the flavour.
>>
>> Like making yogurt or ice cream?
>
>Making it into Hershey bars - the world's only vomit flavoured chocolate
>that somehow they conned Americans into buying. Milk supply was always a
>bit rancid so they made a feature out of it - very cunning marketing!
>

Lots of things are made from fermented milk. Nobody was conned; pople
could have bought Cadbury but it's even worse.

We have all sorts of great chocolate available now, as we have lots of
cheeses. My parents grew up poor in the South and wouldn't have been
able to afford Lundt if it had been available. Times have changed.

>> And as for modern,
>>> homogenised, "standardised" milk. Just white water.
>>
>> Doesn't taste like water.
>
>Doesn't taste like milk either after it has been sterilised and then
>homogenised to something more resembling an inert white paint.

Do you drink raw milk? We can get skim, lowfat, regular "whole",
lactose free, extra rich, and a couple of fakes, like almond and soy.
The standard "whole" (ultra-pasteurized, homogenized, 3.25% butterfat)
milk tastes fine to me and Mo likes it in her tea. It's safe and keeps
fresh.

We keep half-and-half for coffee and some baking, and heavy cream for
whipping and sauces. The squeeze-valve things of sour cream are great
too.

Thanks, all you cows.

Contempt seems to be your food of choice. Enjoy.

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-06-01, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/05/2023 15:27, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 14:16:01 +0100, Max Demian
>> <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/05/2023 21:49, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 02:51:26 +1000, John Larkin
>>>>> <jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Life spans, from birth, have roughly doubled since Pride and Prejudice
>>>>>> was published. About half of newborns didn't survive to 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they weren't killed by raw milk.
>>>>
>>>> Some certainly were. Are you a raw milk fan?
>>>>
>>>> google childhood deaths unpasteurized milk
>>>>
>>>> Are you a raw milk fan?
>>>
>>> I am. Anything you do to milk impairs the flavour.
>>
>> Like making yogurt or ice cream?
>
> Making it into Hershey bars - the world's only vomit flavoured chocolate
> that somehow they conned Americans into buying. Milk supply was always a
> bit rancid so they made a feature out of it - very cunning marketing!

I've been eating Hershey chocolate all my life, and I like the
sour-milk flavor. Other milk chocolate tastes flat and boring.
Even decent European brands.

It's no different from buttermilk, yogurt, or cultured butter. I
don't like cultured butter because it tastes rancid, since I have
always purchased sweet butter.

>> And as for modern,
>>> homogenised, "standardised" milk. Just white water.
>>
>> Doesn't taste like water.
>
> Doesn't taste like milk either after it has been sterilised and then
> homogenised to something more resembling an inert white paint.

It tastes like milk to me. I grew up in the Detroit suburbs, not
on a farm.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[John Larkin]

The Hershey almond bars are different somehow. Darker, less gritty,
not as sour I think.

>
>It's no different from buttermilk, yogurt, or cultured butter. I
>don't like cultured butter because it tastes rancid, since I have
>always purchased sweet butter.
>
>>> And as for modern,
>>>> homogenised, "standardised" milk. Just white water.
>>>
>>> Doesn't taste like water.
>>
>> Doesn't taste like milk either after it has been sterilised and then
>> homogenised to something more resembling an inert white paint.
>
>It tastes like milk to me. I grew up in the Detroit suburbs, not
>on a farm.

Engineering supplies:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/0xpxut2aqost9axpw3ki1/Eng_Supplies.jpg?raw=1

[The Natural Philosopher]

Most milk is only pasteurised.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 01/06/2023 14:58, John Larkin wrote:
> Lots of things are made from fermented milk. Nobody was conned; pople
> could have bought Cadbury but it's even worse.

Since it was bought by a US company it is now completely inedible.
It's just colored sugar. There is no taste of cocoa whatsoever

[The Natural Philosopher]

Years ago I drank fresh goats milk, from a pair of goats down te road.
it tasted disgusting, like newspapers. Later on I saw the goats, and
that, mainly was what they were eating. Newsprint.

Supposed to be bedding, but goats are goats

Milk is a relatively vile drink anyway. .

[Martin Brown]

Not in the US it isn't. They destroy milk beyond all recognition. The
only thing about natural milk that remains is its whiteness.

Most UK supermarket milk has been pasteurised and often homogenised to
obtain the various milk fat contents that people prefer these days and
also to stabilise it so that the emulsion doesn't settle to milk and
cream like the old milk bottles of real pasteurised milk used to do.
Basically the supermarkets prefer a longer shelf life over taste...

https://www.mcqueensdairies.co.uk/pasteurised-milk/

A local farm sells proper pasteurised milk at the farm gate along with
their clotted cream which has won awards. They started out off farm
sales with a shed with a fridge and an honesty box at the end of their
drive during lockdown when all their commercial outlets were closed.

It has since become something of a destination with a clever machine
that refills 1L bottles with any of their milk or various milk shakes.
There are big queues there at the weekend!

It is more expensive and doesn't keep as well as supermarket milk but it
tastes a heck of a lot better, same is true with unpasteurised cheeses.

--
Martin Brown

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 17:14:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 01/06/2023 14:58, John Larkin wrote:
>> Lots of things are made from fermented milk. Nobody was conned; pople
>> could have bought Cadbury but it's even worse.
>
>Since it was bought by a US company it is now completely inedible.
>It's just colored sugar. There is no taste of cocoa whatsoever

We like Chocolove, among others.

Reese's peanut butter cups used to be OK but they have a dark version
now that's very good. It's a Hershey brand.

Justin's dark pb cups are very good too.

[John Larkin]

We can get non-homogenized milk here, in a glass bottle with the cream
floating on top.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <u5ag57$2r3as$2...@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> writes

>On 01/06/2023 14:58, John Larkin wrote:
>> Lots of things are made from fermented milk. Nobody was conned; pople
>> could have bought Cadbury but it's even worse.
>
>Since it was bought by a US company it is now completely inedible.
>It's just colored sugar. There is no taste of cocoa whatsoever
>

Reported, a couple of days ago, as now being far too crumbly.
<https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/26/cadbury-flake-now-too-c
rumbly-for-99-cones-say-ice-cream-sellers>
[Sorry - Tiny URL now no good with XP]
--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

[Phil Hobbs]

French milk is horrible--all UHT. It tastes like diluted Carnation
Evaporated. It's the same in Holland and Belgium,

Is British supermarket milk any different? (AFAICT it's an EU mandate,
so probably in force even post-Brexit.)

You can get low-temperature pasteurized, non-homogenized milk here too.
It's called 'Standard Milk".

Not found in supermarkets any more, though.

One thing that's been noticeable here in the last couple of years is
that milk keeps a lot better in the frig, even after it's been opened.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

[The Natural Philosopher]

I don't think so. UHT milk is completely different to normal pasteurised
milk.

AFAICT milk is pasteurised - flash heated - the separated into fat and
non fat, then blended back to whole fat, skimmed or semi skimmed and
'homegenised' by blasting it through a nozzle to stop the fat separating
out, and that is essentially it.

UHT milk is heat treated to a far greater extent to remove nearly all
bacteria which gives it a much longer shelf life. But it also changes
its chemical structure considerably. It does 'taste different'

But I don't drink milk anyway. I really don't like milk., Probably got
scared by my mothers teats at the age of 3 days.

I use 'unleaded' milk (semi skimmed) in coffee and that's it. On very
rare occasions I might have a bowl of cornflakes. I cook with milk
though for sauces and batters

But I love butter cheese and 'natural' yoghurt. I stock no margarine or
vegetable fat product at all.

> You can get low-temperature pasteurized, non-homogenized milk here too.
> It's called 'Standard Milk".
>

That is available but its not the dominant product in the UK.
Pasteurised and homogenised and possibly skimmed is what we get.

> Not found in supermarkets any more, though.
>
> One thing that's been noticeable here in the last couple of years is
> that milk keeps a lot better in the frig, even after it's been opened.
>

Stuff I have separates out into sludge and whey after a few days even in
the fridge.
Tastes vile.

Not like the old days when it separated out into butter and whey, and or
turned itself into cottage cheese...

And a major stomach infection 4 times a year was the norm :-)

I am no fan of the 'natural, organic' life.

Been there, done that etc,

I don't like free range pigs because they are morally better, or have
more nutritional value, I like them because they taste fucking
BRILLIANT. And my body says 'thank you' to me, and the pig, for the
privilege.

Same goes for grass fed lamb and beef.

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

[The Natural Philosopher]

I don't buy chocolate any more, unless it's a special branded item. Some
of the speciality chocolates taste like Cadburys used to...Chocolate is
now for me a luxury item - best quality, rarely bought.

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

[SteveW]

On 02/06/2023 01:19, Phil Hobbs wrote:

I like British milk - in fact I have a glass on my desk right now.
French milk tastes odd. My wife calls it "rice milk".