BBQ propane for fireplace?
Keith Adams
mild climate and use the fireplace only occasionally - maybe six times a
year - just for show, not for heat. Our builder is suggesting we
install a propane unit and fuel it with a 20 lb. BBQ-style cylinder -
the kind you can exchange at the supermarket or hardware store.
Fireplace dealers differ on whether that's a good idea. One said that
he does it all the time for demo units and it works fine. He says each
cylinder lasts about 18 hours in a 20,000 BTU fireplace. But a couple
of other dealers have said the 20 lb. tank is too small and won't
provide adequate pressure to fuel the fireplace. They recommend a
minimum of 100 gallon tank (426 lbs.).
Has anybody tried this?
Thanks.
Bob G.
You need a regulator anyway..and it is a low pressure
regulator ...the same as used by your gas grill...
I of course have the required gas grill... I also have a see through set of
gas logs (propane fired)..and I heat my wood shop with a 119,000 BTU
gas (converted to propane) furnace...
My home is total electric... so I use 3 100 pound tanks (cost about 70
bucks) and hold 23 gal of propane... In the summer I hook one up to the
grill... in the winter one gets hooked up to the fireplace and the other two
are used to heat the wood shop...
Dealer I purchase Propane from recommends a 150 pound tank for
the fireplace... but I use my 100 pound tank... It will last the entire
winter and some of the summer when I hook it up to the grill...
Bob Griffiths
..
che...@high.noon
won't be able to provide a logical answer.
On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:10:59 -0500, Keith Adams <kad...@lynxus.com>
wrote:
Steve
want to "liberate" your income tax rebates / refunds.
My folks converted their wood-burning fireplace to propane and use dual 25#
tanks (one's there as a backup) and can make it through the winter and then
some with their use. The nicest part is that they always seem to have a
spare tank on hand if the one for the grill "goes dry" half way through
cooking the ribs.
--
Steve
www.ApacheTrail.com
Mesa, AZ
(remove -scalp-the-spammers- to reply)
"Keith Adams" <kad...@lynxus.com> wrote in message
news:3C3DF553...@lynxus.com...
: We're building a house with a direct vent gas fireplace. We live in a
:
Edwin Pawlowski
> mild climate and use the fireplace only occasionally - maybe six times a
> year - just for show, not for heat. Our builder is suggesting we
> install a propane unit and fuel it with a 20 lb. BBQ-style cylinder -
> the kind you can exchange at the supermarket or hardware store.
Sure it will work. Question is, do you want to? How often will you use it
and do you want to drag tanks around al the time. Exchanging tanks is the
most expensive way to buy propane.
Tom Lachance
It's called vaporization. it's based on liquid level in tank and ambient
temperature and BTU's. The more BTU's and the lower the temperature, the
more liquid surface required to properly vaporize the propane.
Keith Adams
are more expensive, if you're talking about having a propane company
come out to the house to refill a permanent tank. The smallest tank
that companies in this area will come out and fill is 100 gallons (about
426 lb.). Most have a system where the homeowner rents a tank for a
couple dollars a year, but has to guarantee a minimum amount of usage.
If usage is very low - as it would be for us, with our seldom used
fireplace - the propane cost and "low usage fees" are exorbitant.
There's one local company that will allow us to buy the tank, but they
have a $600 upfront fee for the tank, setup, and delivery.
Besides, the big tanks are ugly, and I really don't see the point of
keeping more gas on hand than we could use in eight or ten years.
The BBQ tank would allow us to get the fireplace working with no big
financial commitment and no contract to sign. And, of course, if we
decide we ever want to switch to a bigger tank in the future, we could.
Keith Adams
knowledge to know if it makes sense. The idea -- as best I understand
it -- is that propane in a tank absorbs heat from outside the tank to
turn from liquid form to vapor. If the tank is too small, the theory
goes, there's not enough surface area to absorb outside heat, or not
enough room in the tank for the vaporization to take place.
But since some people in this group say they've succeeded in running
their fireplaces off 20 lb. tanks, my sense is that they're big enough
for this not to be a problem on a low BTU fireplace (20,000 BTU).
Thanks for all the responses.
Goedjn
on something that you actually plan to use?
v
wrote:
>The BBQ tank would allow us to get the fireplace working with no big
>financial commitment and no contract to sign. And, of course, if we
>decide we ever want to switch to a bigger tank in the future, we could.
>
Should work perfectly for you, I beleive you said you only would use
it about 6 times (not DAYS as in 24 hr days) a year, for 'decorative'
purposes. So it costs you $1 or $2 every time you use it, so what,
you don't use it often enough to justify tying up a larger amount of
money for years buying in bulk.
It's not so much trouble to bring in a 20lb tank for refill once a
year. Around here, having it refilled while-U-wait is less $ than
exchanging tanks, but you do have to buy your tank up front; I don't
remember exactly now but I think it is about $30.?
If on a cold day the small tank couldn't vaporize fast enough to give
as much flow as you wanted, or you ran out, so what, its not your main
heat. And if you do find you want to use it more, you could (as you
note) upgrade.
good luck, enjoy
-v.
Bob G.
> and do you want to drag tanks around al the time. Exchanging tanks is the
> most expensive way to buy propane.
>
> --
> Ed
> e...@snet.net
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
I would guess that he just does not figure on using much....
Propane locally delivered costs 1.7289 cents a gallon Plus a Hazmat
delivery charge of 3.97 (weather they deliver 1 gallon or 500 gallons)
Cost per gallon at the local refilling center is 2.28 a gallon.
For heating my wood shop and garage in the winter..plus the gas fireplace
and using propane for the BBQ during the summer I use about 5 100 pound tanks
(115 gal) so total cost is 260 dollars a year...
Having it delivered would run me 198 bucks plus delivery charges...
Just NOT worth the trouble ..
Bob Griffiths
73115...@compuserve.com
>>>> We're building a house with a direct vent gas fireplace. We live in
>>>> a mild climate and use the fireplace only occasionally - maybe six
>>>> times a year - just for show, not for heat. Our builder is
>>>> suggesting we install a propane unit and fuel it with a 20 lb.
>>>> BBQ-style cylinder - the kind you can exchange at the supermarket or
>>>> hardware store. Fireplace dealers differ on whether that's a good
>>>> idea.
This strikes me as being realy shortsighted for new construction, unless the
home is all-electric. And I don't think anyone is building all-electric anymore
except in certain rural situations. It would cost all of what? Maybe $50 max for
parts & labor to extend a gas line to the fireplace. The difference between
propane cost and natural gas would make that up in no time, especially if you
have to buy a couple of tanks at $20 each. Then the hassle of refilling the
bottles...
Colbyt
<73115...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:v10v3uce4rsnjlt36...@4ax.com...
Actually in my part of the world all electric is still a viable alternative
for starter homes (.0439 per KWH). 20# tanks are an option for minimal
fireplace users. The next step up is 100 pounders that are usually
delivered.
I would speculate (guess) that a 20 pounders would be good for a few hours
and a couple of nights. Burning should be considered recreation and not for
heat gain or savings.
Colbyt
Carl W. Nivens
installed a used propane furnace. The propane dealer was late by a couple
of weeks. I ran the 100K BTU forced hot air furnace and the hot water
heater on 20# grill tanks. I installed two of them on an auto switch valve.
I could squeak out 2-3 days from it. My wife and kids ran through a tank a
day. I never had the tanks or regulators freeze. I ran a manometer to
check the pressures and they kept up pretty well.
Carl
Bob G. wrote in message <3C3F35D4...@fred.net>...
Tony Hwang
Winter and summer propane is blended differently to keep it from
freezing. Just like gasoline.
Tony
John Gilmer
>
> Actually in my part of the world all electric is still a viable
alternative
> for starter homes (.0439 per KWH). 20# tanks are an option for minimal
> fireplace users. The next step up is 100 pounders that are usually
> delivered.
Heat pumps are economical around here (northern neck of Virginia). Some
folks have oil and/or propane for primary heat but if you want air
conditioning anyway the price of a heat pump is not much more. New
construction is 100% heatpump! Wintertime electric rates are low and our
electric bill (heat pump) in our ranch with full basement is LESS than gas &
electric for old townhouse with gas heat.
I have a ventless fireplace insert (the flue is blocked off) and I usually
run it from a 100# tank which I get filled by putting it into the back seat
of our toyota or the trunk of our buick. I have 3 each 20# tanks for the
gas grill and for backup.
We sometimes get power failures associated with cold weather and when this
happens the ONLY heat source in the place is the fireplace insert! Never
had a problem with either the 100# or the 20# tank supplying gas in the cold
weather. BUT in even cool weater the gas grill doesn't work. The key, of
course, is the outside regulator used to supply the insert.
>
> I would speculate (guess) that a 20 pounders would be good for a few
hours
> and a couple of nights. Burning should be considered recreation and not
for
> heat gain or savings.
Our propane insert is in the coldest occupied room in the house. It has
the longest run to the heat pump air handler. When the kids come is from
playing in the snow, the insert has "high quality heat" by which I mean that
it gets HOT (as compared to the luke warm air from the heat pump.) We
sometimes turn it on on cold mornings. And, of course, when power fails in
the winter it gets a workout. We don't consider it to be "recreation," it
is HEAT!
I don't keep accurate track but I would guess that I fill the 100# tank once
or twice a year. Each time it runs dry, I use up the remains of the 20#
tank that was on the grill first.
BTW: I put an ACME thread adaptor on the 100% tank and the corresponding
fitting on the regulator. It just take a minute or so to transfer the line
from the 100# to a 20# tank and it doesn't require any tools.
>
> Colbyt
>
>
Edwin Pawlowski
<73115...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> This strikes me as being realy shortsighted for new construction, unless
the
> home is all-electric. And I don't think anyone is building all-electric
anymore
> except in certain rural situations. It would cost all of what? Maybe $50
max for
> parts & labor to extend a gas line to the fireplace.
What does all electric have to do with anything? To run a gas line to my
house is about $10,000. That was a few years back. You eveidently live in
a neighborhood with gas in the house and are shortsighted to everything
around you. Ever hear of oil heat? I cook with propane, tow 100# tanks out
back.
Ed
e...@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Tom Lachance
Tony Hwang wrote:
> Hi,
> Winter and summer propane is blended differently to keep it from
> freezing. Just like gasoline.
> Tony
Propane boils at 44 degrees BELOW 0!!!
John Gilmer
"Tom Lachance" <tlac...@waveinter.com> wrote in message
news:3C403462...@waveinter.com...
So?
Tiy may call why you buy "propane" but what you get is LPG which is mostly
propane but will have some lower vapor stuff blended in (especially in the
summer.)
>
73115...@compuserve.com
>Tiy may call why you buy "propane" but what you get is LPG which is mostly
>propane but will have some lower vapor stuff blended in (especially in the
>summer.)
When I lived in northern Wisconsin a number of years ago (a very cold climate),
the bottle gas supplier told me they used butane...
TinMan1332
>climate),
>the bottle gas supplier told me they used butane...
"(Gasp) Butane is a Bastard gas!"
A quote from Hank Hill (c/o King of the Hill)
73115...@compuserve.com
may not be available for a reasonalbe amount. It surprises me that new
contruction would be that way, but I can it it if the house was built in an
existing neighborhood. And I can see not wanting an oil burner in the fireplace!
CBHVAC
--
www.carolinabreezehvac.com
"John Gilmer" <gil...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
news:3c4053f5$0$63...@dingus.crosslink.net...
Dennis
I use propane to run an infra-red heater in the garage. 20 pounds will
get the job done, but I use 40 instead. There are two reasons. One is
fewer trips to re-fill. The other has to do with winter weather. When
it is cold, LP won't vaporize as well, so there is a pressure drop. A
40 pound tank helps because there is more contents, and more surfave
area for the fuel because the tank is normally a little wider.
An alternative was to combine two 20 pound tanks.
Hope this helps.
Dennis,
v
>This strikes me as being realy shortsighted for new construction..
There are NO natural gas delivery lines anywhere in my township (there
IS a high pressure transmission line that runs through, but it doesn't
serve anybody here). Thus any new construction would not have a "gas
line" to hook up to. In the older, built up areas two townships over,
there are pre-existing gas lines to hook up to.
-v.
v
<gil...@crosslink.net> wrote:
>Our propane insert is in the coldest occupied room in the house.
It sounds like something is wrong with your main heat source's design
or installation, if any occupied room is noticeably colder than the
others. My house, new construction, had a balance error as built (one
cold room in one zone, and another hot room in a different zone). We
had the contractor come back and fix it to our satisfaction (no
charge). They just made an error. Not uncommon, but also not
acceptable to stay that way.
-v.
73115...@compuserve.com
>There are NO natural gas delivery lines anywhere in my township (there
>IS a high pressure transmission line that runs through, but it doesn't
>serve anybody here). Thus any new construction would not have a "gas
>line" to hook up to. In the older, built up areas two townships over,
>there are pre-existing gas lines to hook up to.
So presumably you have one of three alternate heating arrangements:
1) Oil heat.
2) Bottle gas (propane/butane/etc).
3) All electric.
In the case of 1 & 3, I could see using a 20/40 bottle to supply a fireplace. In
case 2, I'd just run an extension from the main tank.
v
wrote:
>The ability to balance temps to that degree is not available with all
>types of heating. For example, you can send hot air wherever you want,
>but then it goes where ever it wants.
>
I disagree, in two ways. Firstly, a properly engineered hot air
system in a typical residence should indeed be able to deliver enough
hot air to the required location (and by this I mean in the vertical
dimension as well as horizontally) and KEEP supplying it there.
That is, if the 'original' hot air 'goes' someplace else, then the
system SHOULD be able to deliver more for as long as, and in
sufficient qty, as is needed. If it can't possibly (or practically),
then phase two: it demonstrates that the heating type chosen is the
wrong one for the job.
People put up with too much. It does NOT just have to be like that.
However, it can cost more money to put in a proper system than the
cheap half-assed things that are so often installed. For example one
will often have balance problems trying to use all the same registers
for heating as cooling, because the balance is different. If you
build a house with an inadequate system that is unbalanced, because
that system was less costly, than that I suppose is a choice.
But it still doesn't have to be.
-v.
mcgin...@aol.com
> We're building a house with a direct vent gas fireplace. We live in a
> mild climate and use the fireplace only occasionally - maybe six times a
> year - just for show, not for heat. Our builder is suggesting we
> install a propane unit and fuel it with a 20 lb. BBQ-style cylinder -
> the kind you can exchange at the supermarket or hardware store.
> Fireplace dealers differ on whether that's a good idea. One said that
> he does it all the time for demo units and it works fine. He says each
> cylinder lasts about 18 hours in a 20,000 BTU fireplace. But a couple
> of other dealers have said the 20 lb. tank is too small and won't
> provide adequate pressure to fuel the fireplace. They recommend a
> minimum of 100 gallon tank (426 lbs.).
>
> Has anybody tried this?
>
> Thanks.
mcgin...@aol.com
> We're building a house with a direct vent gas fireplace. We live in a
> mild climate and use the fireplace only occasionally - maybe six times a
> year - just for show, not for heat. Our builder is suggesting we
> install a propane unit and fuel it with a 20 lb. BBQ-style cylinder -
> the kind you can exchange at the supermarket or hardware store.
> Fireplace dealers differ on whether that's a good idea. One said that
> he does it all the time for demo units and it works fine. He says each
> cylinder lasts about 18 hours in a 20,000 BTU fireplace. But a couple
> of other dealers have said the 20 lb. tank is too small and won't
> provide adequate pressure to fuel the fireplace. They recommend a
> minimum of 100 gallon tank (426 lbs.).
>
> Has anybody tried this?
>
> Thanks.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
reduce the probability of the tank freezing up and to provide adequate
flow (twin tanks). That's how I run mt 7500 watt generator.
Frank
weighs about 4 lb/gal so obviously my tank is short over a gallon. Some
places refill by the gallon but prefilled run short. Never got a reply
on this deception from state AG but rules may be different in different
states. Bet most consumers think they are getting 5 gal of propane in
the filled 5 gal tanks.
dadiOH
"Frank" <"frank "@frank.net> wrote in message
news:ocqu91$r91$1...@dont-email.me...
> I just looked at one of my barbecue tanks and it says 15.0 lbs. Propane
> weighs about 4 lb/gal so obviously my tank is short over a gallon. Some
> places refill by the gallon but prefilled run short. Never got a reply on
> this deception from state AG but rules may be different in different
> states. Bet most consumers think they are getting 5 gal of propane in the
> filled 5 gal tanks.
Tony944
"dadiOH" wrote in message news:ocr0cu$479$1...@dont-email.me...
it is mixture of Butane and Propane depend what part of country your in
however is been long time sense I dealt with, so I can only say that you
seems
to be very close. Tanks I dealt with at time was 12.5 lb. 5 Gl. jug, now is
????
Pat
wrote:
or 16 pounds depending on the supplier. I have read that it is safer
that way and is required by regulations. I don't fully understand the
safety issue, but it has been that way for many years.
Frank
not pure propane. If tank capacity is only 5 gal, it would not be safe
to fill to the brim but 80% appears far short. When I had tanks
refilled I paid for weight of gas put in tank and it was cheaper than
prefilled. I buy prefilled for convenience as a tank lasts all year for
the grill and I keep a spare and they get corroded looking on the deck
even under grill cover.
Mark Lloyd
[snip]
> Common BBQ tanks can hold 20 pounds, but are usually only filled to 15
> or 16 pounds depending on the supplier. I have read that it is safer
> that way and is required by regulations. I don't fully understand the
> safety issue, but it has been that way for many years.
>
always filled to 19 or 20 pounds.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
"Is it okay to yell 'MOVIE' in a crowded firehouse?"
Paul
hook up to natural gas?
Ed Pawlowski
> On 04/14/2017 01:26 PM, Pat wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Common BBQ tanks can hold 20 pounds, but are usually only filled to 15
>> or 16 pounds depending on the supplier. I have read that it is safer
>> that way and is required by regulations. I don't fully understand the
>> safety issue, but it has been that way for many years.
>>
>
> I have had 20 pound tanks filled by 2 different suppliers. They were
> always filled to 19 or 20 pounds.
>
that much.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
80 % of their total capacity.
The weight you are referring to stamped on the tank is the "tare
weight" Tatre weight is the EMPTY weight of the tank. It varied
between different tanks from about 13 to 17 lbs.
If the tare weight stamped on the tank is 15 lbs, a propane seller is
supposed to fill a '20 LB" tant to a total weight of 35 lbs.
At that weight you get 5 Yankee gallons, or 4 big "full sized"
gallons.
It would be good if people knew what they were talking about before
coming to the conclusion they are being routinely cheated.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
5 Yankee gallons.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
american gallons. Propane regulations stipulate the tank can only be
filled to 80% of total WC - which comes out to very close to 5 gallons
of "liquified petroleum gas" which weighs 20 lbs.
The "tare weight" of the tank has to be stamped on the tank by law so
the tank can be accurately filled by weight.
I used to have my propane licence and all this stuff was taught and
required knowledge to get the licence, so this is not my "opinion".
Also not what "i have read". It IS the law.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Liquified Petroleum Gas. Since Propane wighs 4.25 lb/gallon and Butane
wieghs 4.81, 20 lbs of Butane is 4.15 gallons, or 4.7 gallons of pure
propane,and an 80% WC fill of Butane in a "20 lb" bottle is 24 lbs.
and 21 lbs of pure propane.A 20 lb fill is well within the design
parameters and I've never had a problem with one EXCEPT if the flow is
exceded - which is another good reason to manifold 2 tanks.
Mark Lloyd
[snip]
>> I have had 20 pound tanks filled by 2 different suppliers. They were
>> always filled to 19 or 20 pounds.
>>
>
> How long ago? Newer tanks with an OPD will not work very well filled
> that much.
generator). One of the tanks (the one that held 20 pounds) was a new one
I had just bought a few years ago. The other was a tank from Blue Rhino.
All definitely had OPD.
"...to argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving
medicine to the dead." -- Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 1, p.127
Mark Lloyd
[snip]
> Tanks are to be refilled BY WEIGHT. They are also to be filled to only
> 80 % of their total capacity.
> The weight you are referring to stamped on the tank is the "tare
> weight" Tatre weight is the EMPTY weight of the tank. It varied
> between different tanks from about 13 to 17 lbs.
> If the tare weight stamped on the tank is 15 lbs, a propane seller is
> supposed to fill a '20 LB" tant to a total weight of 35 lbs.
> At that weight you get 5 Yankee gallons, or 4 big "full sized"
> gallons.
> It would be good if people knew what they were talking about before
> coming to the conclusion they are being routinely cheated.
>
after than 2015 refill) weighed 35.6 and 36.6 pounds.
BTW, I actually weighed them rather than relying on what it was supposed
to be.
Terry Coombs
> On 04/14/2017 06:51 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Tanks are to be refilled BY WEIGHT. They are also to be filled to
>> only 80 % of their total capacity.
>> The weight you are referring to stamped on the tank is the "tare
>> weight" Tatre weight is the EMPTY weight of the tank. It varied
>> between different tanks from about 13 to 17 lbs.
>> If the tare weight stamped on the tank is 15 lbs, a propane seller is
>> supposed to fill a '20 LB" tant to a total weight of 35 lbs.
>> At that weight you get 5 Yankee gallons, or 4 big "full sized"
>> gallons.
>> It would be good if people knew what they were talking about before
>> coming to the conclusion they are being routinely cheated.
>>
>
> The tare weight on my tanks is 16.6 pounds. The filled ones (I checked
> after than 2015 refill) weighed 35.6 and 36.6 pounds.
>
> BTW, I actually weighed them rather than relying on what it was
> supposed to be.
resets for each cylinder .
--
Snag
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
tpike....@gmail.com
I'm planning on hooking up a propane firepit and have my 20 pound tank about 15 feet away. Will the fire pit work with a hose this long?
Ed Pawlowski
> Hi,
>
> I'm planning on hooking up a propane firepit and have my 20 pound tank about 15 feet away. Will the fire pit work with a hose this long?
>
Mark Dammeyer
We had our large tank taken away to remove 2 trees and level out side of yard. Fixer upper so we are doing a ton of work. Tried to bring new tank back in 2 years later to learn tank placement cant be done due to basement window wells and AC & Radon which are electric which is code. I get all that.
I saw this forum and decided to try 20 lb tank to see if we really used and liked fireplace before spending big bucks putting tank elsewhere and burring a line. I got home depot regulator and fittings. Regulator cuts out when i open valve on tank. very strange. about 20 feet of line so I tried to very slightly open to fill line which might act like a leak/open burner. When I open more it still closes valve. I did swap for new regulator thinking it was faulty.
I hate to run it without regulator. Any reccomendations. Couple youtube clips with this same set up.
Mark
Ralph Mowery
damm...@gmail.com says...
>
> We had our large tank taken away to remove 2 trees and level out side of yard. Fixer upper so we are doing a ton of work. Tried to bring new tank back in 2 years later to learn tank placement cant be done due to basement window wells and AC & Radon which are electric which is code. I get all that.
> I saw this forum and decided to try 20 lb tank to see if we really used and liked fireplace before spending big bucks putting tank elsewhere and burring a line. I got home depot regulator and fittings. Regulator cuts out when i open valve on tank. very strange. about 20 feet of line so I tried to very slightly open to fill line
which might act like a leak/open burner. When I open more it still closes valve. I did swap for new regulator thinking it was faulty.
>
> I hate to run it without regulator. Any reccomendations. Couple youtube clips with this same set up.
>
> Mar
>
internal valve on the tank that will stop the gas flow if it is too
much. Guess it would be like a line being broken. He had some problems
similsr to yours when he opened the valve of the tank going to his
generator too fast.
Ed Pawlowski
can shut the tank off, especially when it is overfilled or opened to
fast. Tey bleeding off some of the tank and see if that works. Some
can be a real PITA when full.