Only 111 volts on one circuit, 118 on all others?
Bryan Scholtes
Sometimes I plug an appliance into the same circuit, and it works slower than on other circuits. This seems to point to less voltage posing a problem. But the TV has always worked fine.
Questions:
- do you think this voltage is too low? Most low voltage stories I hear are less than 100v.
- could it have hurt the TV?
- Could running the appliance simultaneously have hurt the TV?
I love this group and hope to hear your opinions.
harry
All power systems have voltage variations in them arising from the
amount of power drawn from the system is various places. The more
current is drawn, the more the voltage will drop.
However, if no current is being drawn from anywhere within your house,
the voltages within that same area should be the same ON THAT PHASE.
If you have more than one phase supplied to your house,the voltages
on different phases are commonly different if the load is not the same
on all the phases. This would be normal.
If however, your outlets are on the same phase, there are no loads and
different voltages appear you have a problem that needs looking into,
conceivably a dangerous problem too.
It could be a ground fault, loose/corroded connection or a short
circuit somewhere.
The voltage RANGE you are experiencing within your house seems to me
to be excessive. Are there any large electrical heating loads?
harry
Re the TV. All electrical appliances run on a quite wide voltage
range, more than you might think.
However certain kinds of electrical faults can generate voltage
"spikes" that might do for your TV. All the more reason to check
this one out.
Andy
Andy comments:
One possibility is some resistance in the terminal connections.
Sometimes they loosen up....
You could check the other receptacles on the same breaker and
see if they have the same voltage, with the TV plugged in to the
receptacle you mentioned since sometimes the receptacles are
daisy chained, and loose connections in any one of them would
cause a voltage drop. Also, go to the breaker box and tighten up
both the connection at the breaker, and the white neutral wire that
mates with it at the neutral bar.... Loose connections here are
fairly common also....
Actually, you should probly tighten up ALL of the white wire
connections, since it isn't unusual to have them loosen up over
time....
I am assuming you have all copper wiring. If you have aluminum
wiring, you almost certainly need to tighten them all up.....
Just a suggestion, --- something you might not have thought of...
If you aren't comfortable with tightening up terminals when hot,
throw the breaker first, or, get someone more familiar with house
wiring to do it for you.... It's possible to get hurt if you aren't
careful.
Andy in Eureka, Texas
tra...@optonline.net
I forget what exactly th max acceptable deviation from full 120V is
generally considered to be at the end of a run. However, I know it's
right around the 111V you are seeing. And I know you'll find
plenty of homes, particularly older ones, where it exceeds that,
meaning you have less than 111V.
But I would not expect a TV to be among the loads that would be
sensitive to having full voltage, nor would I expect it to have
caused damage. I'd say whatever is going on with the TV is
unrelated to your lower voltage issure. I assume you've tried
it in another outlet and it does not work there either?
As others have pointed out, the voltage you will see depends on
the voltage coming into the house, the state of all the connections
along the way from the panel to the outlet, the wire size, and
the length of the run. I've seen voltages similar to what you're
seeing in new construction with long runs.
Bill
> Yesterday my TV went out, and my guess is the power board based on
> the error code. I measured 111.2 volts on this circuit. All others
> in my house seem to be 118 volts.
>
This is "voltage drop" and will be more/less depending on the length
of the circuit from the breaker panel, the size of the wire for the
circuit, and the load on the circuit (things plugged in).
Plug in a long cheap 50 foot extension cord which has a small gauge
wire, then connect an air compressor and it will not even run!
(Measure the voltage at the end.) However use a "contractor" 50 foot
extension cord which has 12 or 10 gauge wire in it, then the
compressor will run just fine. Notice the voltage is higher at the
end.
Thus a good reason to use 20 amp circuits and 12 gauge wire for the
circuits in a home instead of 15 amp and 14 gauge wire (cheap).
Here is a "voltage drop calculator"...
http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm
JIMMIE
Probably wont hurt the TV but I would cerainly look into the cause.
Often this is caused by a bad neutral connection at either the service
panel , meter, or pole transformer. If some of your circuits are
reading 8 volts low this means there may be others reading 8 volts too
high which is much more likely to cause damage. If this is the case
that 8 volts to high may become 118 volts too high. This could
definately do some damage to some expensive equipment.
Jimmie
Tony Hwang
Hi,
Your TV problem is separate issue. Go check the voltage at you
main breaker panel first. Start from there. What kinda TV?
JIMMIE
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
But there is an imbalance as he stated 111 at the TV which usually
isnt that much of a load, to 118 on other outlets. This is abnormal.
Having even a big hunking projection TV cause a 7 volt drop would be
an indication something is wrong with the electical system. He didnt
say whether the voltage he measured at the outlet was with the TV on
or off or if there were other devices also running on the same
circuit. Knowing the voltage at the service panel would be helpful.
Jimmie
Jimmie
Jimmie
Peter
where the cable from my house was connected to the distribution line
along the street. Unfortunately I couldn't convince my power company to
visit ("the problem is in your house; get an electrician") until I hired
a licensed electrician, who, for $150 told me something I already knew
("you have an open neutral in the power company's wiring to your
house"). When I told the power company that I had just had a licensed
electrician confirm my conclusion, they sent a crew and fixed the
problem. Of course, they never re-reimbursed me for the electrician's
charge!
tra...@optonline.net
Not necessarily abnormal. Like I stated, it depends on what else
is on that circuit, how long the run is and wire gauge. He said the
other outlets were 7 volts higher. However there could be other
loads on it that are not outlets. And from a practical standpoint
I would not take that to mean that he checked every other outlet.
Could be some outlets are not that easy to check, eg refrigerator,
freezer, etc.
> Having even a big hunking projection TV cause a 7 volt drop would be
> an indication something is wrong with the electical system. He didnt
> say whether the voltage he measured at the outlet was with the TV on
> or off or if there were other devices also running on the same
> circuit.
Exactly. Which makes it impossible to determine what exactly is
going on. As I said, I've seen circuits in new construction here
in NJ with similar drops. Example being long runs to 2nd story
from basement panel at the other end of a 4500 sq ft house.
Even with about a 7amp load, there was about a 7 volt drop.
I also backtracked it as far as possible and could find nothing
wrong, no apparent significant drop at a splice point, etc. I
also wonder about the quality of the copper wire you get
today and if it doesn't have a slighlty higher resistance than
what it should have based on standard tables. I mean we
all know the corners being cut and crap you get today from
places like China.
Jim Yanik
> On 6/25/2011 12:20 AM, Bryan Scholtes wrote:
>> Yesterday my TV went out, and my guess is the power board based on
>> the error code. I measured 111.2 volts on this circuit. All others in
>> my house seem to be 118 volts.
nominal range is 110-125 VAC.
You also have to watch out for some inexpensive DMMs,like Harbor Freight
DMMs,that may not read voltage accurately. I had one of those $3 HF DMMs
that read a 1.5 volt cell at 2 volts.I had to return it for a new one. If a
DMM doesn't read right on the DC volts ranges,it won't on any other modes.
(DMM = digital multimeter.)
>>
>> Sometimes I plug an appliance into the same circuit, and it works
>> slower than on other circuits. This seems to point to less voltage
>> posing a problem. But the TV has always worked fine.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> - do you think this voltage is too low? Most low voltage stories I
>> hear are less than 100v. - could it have hurt the TV?
>> - Could running the appliance simultaneously have hurt the TV?
>>
>> I love this group and hope to hear your opinions.
> I had this situation several years ago. It was due to an open neutral
> where the cable from my house was connected to the distribution line
> along the street. Unfortunately I couldn't convince my power company
> to visit ("the problem is in your house; get an electrician") until I
> hired a licensed electrician, who, for $150 told me something I
> already knew ("you have an open neutral in the power company's wiring
> to your house"). When I told the power company that I had just had a
> licensed electrician confirm my conclusion, they sent a crew and fixed
> the problem. Of course, they never re-reimbursed me for the
> electrician's charge!
>
low voltage is called a "brownout".
your TV operators manual should have the operating voltage range listed
inthe specifications. Usually,switching power supplies such as TVs,PCs,work
from 90-250 volts,so they don't have to use a switch for other nations
voltage standards. But check your unit's OP manual to be sure.
What low voltage hurts are things like refrigerators and items that use
motors or have iron-core transformers.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
JIMMIE
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not necessarily abnormal but not necessarily normal either if I had a
voltage drop like that in my house I would find out why. It could be
there is an Edison circuit with a flakey neutral, thats alway fun when
you get nearly the full 240 across your TV, or just a long run of wire
like you said.
Jimmie
Andy
Well, I would suggest that Bryan go to his input service panel
and determine, first of all, whether each side of the 240 coming
into his house measured 120 to ground, or otherwise. If it is
unequal here, it isn't going to get any better in the house. Also,
if the unbalance exists there, he should call his electric company
to see if they can correct it......
Heck, it's even possible that he has a breaker that has high
resistance in the internal contacts..... A 7 volt imbalance is
being caused by something, and, if it were me, I would track it
down rather than dismiss it by saying "things will probably work
anyway".......
Personally, I've NEVER seen a 7 volt imbalance at the service
entrance..... While uneven loading can certainly cause an imbalance,
a constant 7 folts difference means something is going on that
wasn't planned for ----- most likely resistance in a connection
somewhere, either external on terminals or internal in switches
or breakers...
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Andy
It just occurred to me another simple test. At the outlet that
measures 111 volts, does it still measure 111 when there is
no load on the outlet ?
Measure the no load voltage, then measure the loaded voltage
with your TV set or otherwise..... There should be no appreciable
difference with loads under, say, 10 amps ( TV will be around 1
amp)....
This is a clue as to where the drop is occurring...
Andy in Eureka, Texas
mike
as evidenced by the replies.
Without knowing more about just what you measured under what conditions,
about all I can say is, "it doesn't seem normal, GET IT CHECKED OUT".
I've lived in two houses demolished by fire.
It ain't pretty...
GET IT CHECKED OUT!!!
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> - could it have hurt the TV?
> - Could running the appliance simultaneously have hurt the TV?
Sometimes stuff just breaks randomly for no reason. You can waste your
life trying to find out why, or you can buy a replacement (which you
had to do anyway) and move on.
I would try to find out why you're only getting 111V from that wall
outlet, though.
