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A/C drain line plugged, what to clear it with?
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Dave
Jun 2, 2012, 1:04:12 AM6/2/12
to
The condensation drip drain line for my central A/C appears to be plugged
again, with whatever it is that grows is such places and resembles clear
jelly. A few years back I installed a coupling and valve, so I could wash
it out with the garden hose without flooding my drip-pan, and this included
an inlet to pour a dilute solution of chlorine bleach into the system, to
prevent such clogs. That was probably ten years ago, and I haven't done
squat with it since, so it is plugged again. Tonight I tried to close the
valve, and it jammed on me before completely closing. I called that good,
and ran a shot of water through the hose to it and cleared out the portion
downstream from the valve. Upstream from the valve still appears to be
something of a problem however. Was going to pour more dilute chlorine
bleacn into it, until wife reminded me that she spoke with one of the
building engineers where she works (major bank in a large metropolitan area,
72 story building,) who told her to tell me to *never* pour chlorine bleach
into the drip pan of my central A/C unit. So I poured some 3 percent (stuff
you buy at the drugstore) hydrogen peroxide into it instead, thinking that
bacteria are carbon-based life forms, and that H2O2 will turn such into CO2
and water if it gets the chance (thus the foam from hydrogen peroxide on a
scraped knee.) It appears to be working, even if it's not a block-buster
cleaning agent. So I come here, to ask the A/C gurus, what *should* I put
into the drip pan to clear out bacteria or whatever it is that grows in
there? I know this place is populated by people in the know, and I now seek
your advice. The drip line is draining, slowly, and the valve still won't
close completely. So, what would *you* do?
Many thanks in advance to the people I know are out there who are already
familiar with central A/C and it's problems.
Dave
again, with whatever it is that grows is such places and resembles clear
jelly. A few years back I installed a coupling and valve, so I could wash
it out with the garden hose without flooding my drip-pan, and this included
an inlet to pour a dilute solution of chlorine bleach into the system, to
prevent such clogs. That was probably ten years ago, and I haven't done
squat with it since, so it is plugged again. Tonight I tried to close the
valve, and it jammed on me before completely closing. I called that good,
and ran a shot of water through the hose to it and cleared out the portion
downstream from the valve. Upstream from the valve still appears to be
something of a problem however. Was going to pour more dilute chlorine
bleacn into it, until wife reminded me that she spoke with one of the
building engineers where she works (major bank in a large metropolitan area,
72 story building,) who told her to tell me to *never* pour chlorine bleach
into the drip pan of my central A/C unit. So I poured some 3 percent (stuff
you buy at the drugstore) hydrogen peroxide into it instead, thinking that
bacteria are carbon-based life forms, and that H2O2 will turn such into CO2
and water if it gets the chance (thus the foam from hydrogen peroxide on a
scraped knee.) It appears to be working, even if it's not a block-buster
cleaning agent. So I come here, to ask the A/C gurus, what *should* I put
into the drip pan to clear out bacteria or whatever it is that grows in
there? I know this place is populated by people in the know, and I now seek
your advice. The drip line is draining, slowly, and the valve still won't
close completely. So, what would *you* do?
Many thanks in advance to the people I know are out there who are already
familiar with central A/C and it's problems.
Dave
Stormin Mormon
Jun 2, 2012, 7:06:56 AM6/2/12
to
I'd disregard the other advice, and pour in the bleach like you should have
been doing all along.
Hydrogen peroxide does not release CO2, it releases O2. Like when it foams,
on a cut.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oaCdnXHrjP9-A1TS...@posted.internetamerica...
been doing all along.
Hydrogen peroxide does not release CO2, it releases O2. Like when it foams,
on a cut.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oaCdnXHrjP9-A1TS...@posted.internetamerica...
Dave
Jun 2, 2012, 7:53:04 AM6/2/12
to
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ctmyr.10944$LR4....@news.usenetserver.com...
Would a 10 percent bleach solution be strong enouch to do the job, but weak
enough not to damage the galvanized drip pan? I don't remember what I used
before, I just remember warnings not to make it too strong.
Many thanks.
Dave
MLD
Jun 2, 2012, 9:00:30 AM6/2/12
to
about a gallon of it through my condensate drain line forever (it may not be
as efficient as the new systems but my AC was installed in 1973) I made an
opening in my duct that allows me access to the drain pan. I pour the
mixture in the drain pan and verify that it comes out the other end. I do
this each year at the start of the season. Living in the NE the AC
obviously doesn't get the same workout as in the hotter climate.
MLD
Home Guy
Jun 2, 2012, 10:21:45 AM6/2/12
to
Dave wrote:
> The condensation drip drain line for my central A/C appears to be
> plugged again, with whatever it is that grows is such places and
> resembles clear jelly.
Last summer, I figured that the drain line for the A/C unit at $Dayjob
> The condensation drip drain line for my central A/C appears to be
> plugged again, with whatever it is that grows is such places and
> resembles clear jelly.
was blocked when water started leaking out of the plenum and dripping
onto things that shouldn't get wet (like the fan motor, etc).
The drain line is plumbed with 1/2" copper pipe that runs out and down
the cabinet to the floor, and then a few feet where it stops at a floor
drain.
We have a small compressor that is used to charge a 5-gallon steel air
tank. I charged the tank to 100 psi, connected an air blow-gun to the
tank, wrapped a small rag around the nozzle of the gun and shoved the
nozzle-rag into the end of the copper line and pressed the trigger.
When I removed the nozzle, a flood of water ran out of the tube as the
condensate pan drained.
Problem solved.
No messing with chemicals, no taking-apart-of-the-plenum to access the
condensate pan, etc.
HeyBub
Jun 2, 2012, 12:31:58 PM6/2/12
to
cups of Clorox in the system each year. For a few hours the house smell like
a hospital. The screams from the algae colonies aren't too bad.
Second, you can get a biocide that comes in a block about the size of a
candy bar. You put it in the condensate area and it s-l-o-w-l-y releases a
substance that posions algae (Kobolthorium-G, I think).
Robert Macy
Jun 2, 2012, 2:47:29 PM6/2/12
to
edges is killed by using copper chloride. Usually dispensed in
beautiful blue crystals dropped into the lake.and then yes we drink
that.
Robert Macy
Jun 2, 2012, 2:52:40 PM6/2/12
to
drinking water [like a contaminated bottle purchased at the store]
itlooks like someone had a cold and spit in the water. If you have
this in your A/C, you probably have a white jelly ring around the
inside of all of your toilet tanks, too.
Bleach is great for instantly killing slime mold, making it break up,
release, and fall off. Like a stream into the tank - BUT straight
bleach is caustic, and the fumes released are caustic, so rinse
afterwards with dilute bleach to 'neutralize' everything.
The concern of your wife's advisor is that fumes from breakdown into
gas form will eat aluminum parts. But, a flash of bleach followed by
rinsing will prevent that type of damage.
Don't know why valve does not close.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
Jun 2, 2012, 4:09:26 PM6/2/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Maybe built-up crud got into the valve.
Stormin Mormon
Jun 2, 2012, 10:10:02 PM6/2/12
to
I remember 10% is the standard number.
Might be on the web some where.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vcednWOkPYo1Y1TS...@posted.internetamerica...
Might be on the web some where.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Stormin Mormon
Jun 2, 2012, 10:11:10 PM6/2/12
to
I'll roger that! Brief contact, rinse well.
"Robert Macy" <robert...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2d0853d-59cf-43a1...@y21g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
"Robert Macy" <robert...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2d0853d-59cf-43a1...@y21g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Home Guy
Jun 3, 2012, 8:56:01 AM6/3/12
to
Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the condensate
line in the first place?
A blast of compressed air (as I described previously) is the most
ergonomic method - assuming you have a small tank handy (borrow, etc).
line in the first place?
A blast of compressed air (as I described previously) is the most
ergonomic method - assuming you have a small tank handy (borrow, etc).
Robert Macy
Jun 3, 2012, 10:28:08 AM6/3/12
to
On Jun 2, 7:10 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
From a call to Chlorox, cut at LEAST 4:1
Ralph Mowery
Jun 3, 2012, 2:17:47 PM6/3/12
to
news:oaCdnXHrjP9-A1TS...@posted.internetamerica...
out the filter element of the vac so it will not get wet and then go to the
outside of the house and hook up to the line and suck it out. I just wrap
my hand around the gap between the hose of the vac and the smaller line.
That is after I stick the smaller line about 6 inches to a foot in the
larger line.
> your advice. The drip line is draining, slowly, and the valve still won't
> close completely. So, what would *you* do?
>
> Many thanks in advance to the people I know are out there who are already
> familiar with central A/C and it's problems.
>
> Dave
If I get a stopped up drain line, I usually use the wet/dry shop vac. Take
> close completely. So, what would *you* do?
>
> Many thanks in advance to the people I know are out there who are already
> familiar with central A/C and it's problems.
>
> Dave
out the filter element of the vac so it will not get wet and then go to the
outside of the house and hook up to the line and suck it out. I just wrap
my hand around the gap between the hose of the vac and the smaller line.
That is after I stick the smaller line about 6 inches to a foot in the
larger line.
Oren
Jun 3, 2012, 6:19:18 PM6/3/12
to
On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 08:56:01 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the condensate
>line in the first place?
>
Define "all you people". Maybe we can help you grasp a simple
>Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the condensate
>line in the first place?
>
concept. I'm not certain you would get the point.
>A blast of compressed air (as I described previously) is the most
>ergonomic method - assuming you have a small tank handy (borrow, etc).
the problem with clogged lines.
Maybe you are special?
I don't need bleach or an air compressor.
HeyBub
Jun 3, 2012, 7:54:53 PM6/3/12
to
Home Guy wrote:
> Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the condensate
> line in the first place?
>
The bleach will have to be poured inasmuch as bleach won't miracle itself
> Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the condensate
> line in the first place?
>
into position.
I trust that answers your question.
HeyBub
Jun 3, 2012, 7:57:48 PM6/3/12
to
In this part of the country, if a/c condensate is dripping outside the house
that means the primary drain is clogged!
If the primary drain is not clogged, sucking on the overflow drain - the one
going outside - does very little good at all.
Ralph Mowery
Jun 3, 2012, 9:12:58 PM6/3/12
to
"HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:mK6dnSP_T7liZFbS...@earthlink.com...
>> If I get a stopped up drain line, I usually use the wet/dry shop vac.
>> Take out the filter element of the vac so it will not get wet and
>> then go to the outside of the house and hook up to the line and suck
>> it out. I just wrap my hand around the gap between the hose of the
>> vac and the smaller line. That is after I stick the smaller line
>> about 6 inches to a foot in the larger line.
>
> OUTSIDE the house?
>
> In this part of the country, if a/c condensate is dripping outside the
> house that means the primary drain is clogged!
>
> If the primary drain is not clogged, sucking on the overflow drain - the
> one going outside - does very little good at all.
My central air (heat pump) has one drain line. The air handler is in a walk
>> Take out the filter element of the vac so it will not get wet and
>> then go to the outside of the house and hook up to the line and suck
>> it out. I just wrap my hand around the gap between the hose of the
>> vac and the smaller line. That is after I stick the smaller line
>> about 6 inches to a foot in the larger line.
>
> OUTSIDE the house?
>
> In this part of the country, if a/c condensate is dripping outside the
> house that means the primary drain is clogged!
>
> If the primary drain is not clogged, sucking on the overflow drain - the
> one going outside - does very little good at all.
in basement. The yard has a lot of slope going away from the house. There
is a deck that is about 10 feet off the ground and the drain pipe goes from
a hole in the wall that is at ground level and out about 10 feet to the edge
of the deck.
gregz
Jun 3, 2012, 9:53:34 PM6/3/12
to
got a pump I would like to bypass. Originally they fed into laundry tubs,
old fashioned, where the water eats away at the cement like material. I
dropped it to the floor drain.
Greg
Home Guy
Jun 3, 2012, 11:01:59 PM6/3/12
to
How do you pour something into a line and have it run *UP* the line?
Most condensate lines run DOWN from the pan inside the furnace plenum.
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 4, 2012, 8:01:12 AM6/4/12
to
bleach it, whatever
and put it back together with a coupling. Geez.
Home Guy
Jun 4, 2012, 8:28:43 AM6/4/12
to
"tra...@optonline.net" wrote:
> > > > Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the
> > > > condensate line in the first place?
> >
> > > > Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the
> > > > condensate line in the first place?
> >
> > How do you pour something into a line and have it run *UP* the
> > line? Most condensate lines run DOWN from the pan inside the
> > furnace plenum.
>
> It's PVC pipe.
I don't see where the OP mentions the type of pipe.
> > line? Most condensate lines run DOWN from the pan inside the
> > furnace plenum.
>
> It's PVC pipe.
> Just cut it, remove a section, unclog it, clean it,
> bleach it, whatever and put it back together with a
> coupling. Geez.
that it's worth the time and effort to clean it with chemicals vs
spending $2 for a new section of PVC?
And that's assuming the section you cut is the section containing the
blockage.
And we don't even know if it's made with PVC vs copper in this case.
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 4, 2012, 9:18:33 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 8:28 am, Home Guy <H...@Guy.com> wrote:
want with it. Because as usual, you seem confused. Once
it's cut you can do anything you want, including pouring
something into the pan under the coils, if that's what he
wants to do.
>
> And that's assuming the section you cut is the section containing the
> blockage.
>
> And we don't even know if it's made with PVC vs copper in this case.
I've seen a lot of HVAC here in the USA. I've yet to see a
residential
central AC use copper for the condensate line. I've seen Holmes run
around to a bunch of them in Canada on TV too and never seen anything
but PVC. But then you're in your own little universe, so who knows....
> "trad...@optonline.net" wrote:
> > > > > Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the
> > > > > condensate line in the first place?
>
> > > How do you pour something into a line and have it run *UP* the
> > > line? Most condensate lines run DOWN from the pan inside the
> > > furnace plenum.
>
> > It's PVC pipe.
>
> I don't see where the OP mentions the type of pipe.
>
> > Just cut it, remove a section, unclog it, clean it,
> > bleach it, whatever and put it back together with a
> > coupling. Geez.
>
> If you're going to cut it, then put it back together, you're telling me
> that it's worth the time and effort to clean it with chemicals vs
> spending $2 for a new section of PVC?
I'm telling you how to access the pipe to do whatever you
> > > > > Just how do all you people propose to get bleach into the
> > > > > condensate line in the first place?
>
> > > How do you pour something into a line and have it run *UP* the
> > > line? Most condensate lines run DOWN from the pan inside the
> > > furnace plenum.
>
> > It's PVC pipe.
>
> I don't see where the OP mentions the type of pipe.
>
> > Just cut it, remove a section, unclog it, clean it,
> > bleach it, whatever and put it back together with a
> > coupling. Geez.
>
> If you're going to cut it, then put it back together, you're telling me
> that it's worth the time and effort to clean it with chemicals vs
> spending $2 for a new section of PVC?
want with it. Because as usual, you seem confused. Once
it's cut you can do anything you want, including pouring
something into the pan under the coils, if that's what he
wants to do.
>
> And that's assuming the section you cut is the section containing the
> blockage.
>
> And we don't even know if it's made with PVC vs copper in this case.
residential
central AC use copper for the condensate line. I've seen Holmes run
around to a bunch of them in Canada on TV too and never seen anything
but PVC. But then you're in your own little universe, so who knows....
Home Guy
Jun 4, 2012, 9:58:27 AM6/4/12
to
"tra...@optonline.net" wrote:
> > If you're going to cut it, then put it back together, you're
> > telling me that it's worth the time and effort to clean it
> > with chemicals vs spending $2 for a new section of PVC?
>
> I'm telling you how to access the pipe to do whatever you
> want with it. Because as usual, you seem confused.
I'm making the point about dicking around with the clogged pipe with
> > If you're going to cut it, then put it back together, you're
> > telling me that it's worth the time and effort to clean it
> > with chemicals vs spending $2 for a new section of PVC?
>
> I'm telling you how to access the pipe to do whatever you
> want with it. Because as usual, you seem confused.
bleach because that's the direction this thread took, and I'm wondering
why that's a better way to deal with the problem vs blowing it with
compressed air.
I'm asking those that propose to use bleach how they make it run up the
drain line. If you're not one of those proposing to use bleach, then
why are you butting in now?
Those that are proposing to use bleach have yet to explain the entire
proceedure - which according to you involves cutting the line. Nobody
else has proposed that step.
> Once it's cut you can do anything you want, including pouring
> something into the pan under the coils, if that's what he
> wants to do.
get to - without taking the plenum apart.
> > And we don't even know if it's made with PVC vs copper in this case.
>
> I've seen a lot of HVAC here in the USA. I've yet to see a
> residential central AC use copper for the condensate line.
> I've seen Holmes run around to a bunch of them in Canada on
> TV too and never seen anything but PVC.
> But then you're in your own little universe, so who knows..
materials.
Unless the furnace / air-handler is located very close to (or directly
over) a basement drain, then a plastic condensate line that is run
across open floor to the nearest drain can be stepped on, pinched or
otherwise collapse and block proper drainage. Naturally this collapse
is more difficult when the line is made of ordinary 1/2" copper pipe.
Also - copper might have bio-chemical properties that hinder the
formation of blockage in the first place.
MLD
Jun 4, 2012, 11:27:58 AM6/4/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4FCC2527...@Guy.com...
Removing a cover plate provides complete access to the condensate drain pan.
My bleach solution, therefore, runs down and out.
MLD
Home Guy
Jun 4, 2012, 5:24:25 PM6/4/12
to
MLD wrote:
> > How do you pour something into a line and have it run *UP* the
> > line? Most condensate lines run DOWN from the pan inside the
> > furnace plenum.
>
> Have a cutout in the furnace plenum which was originally for a
> humidifier. Removing a cover plate provides complete access to
> the condensate drain pan.
Do we know if the OP has similar access to the condensate pan?
> > How do you pour something into a line and have it run *UP* the
> > line? Most condensate lines run DOWN from the pan inside the
> > furnace plenum.
>
> Have a cutout in the furnace plenum which was originally for a
> humidifier. Removing a cover plate provides complete access to
> the condensate drain pan.
> My bleach solution, therefore, runs down and out.
not be blocked.
So again, how exactly is this bleach method a solution to a blocked
line?
Oren
Jun 4, 2012, 5:34:08 PM6/4/12
to
On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 17:24:25 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>So again, how exactly is this bleach method a solution to a blocked
>line?
Gosh. Can't you figure out bleach verses algae?
>So again, how exactly is this bleach method a solution to a blocked
>line?
I guess not.
Home Guy
Jun 4, 2012, 6:02:26 PM6/4/12
to
Oren wrote:
> > So again, how exactly is this bleach method a solution to a
> > blocked line?
>
> Gosh. Can't you figure out bleach verses algae?
Bleach (or anything else) can't flow into a blocked line, fool.
> > So again, how exactly is this bleach method a solution to a
> > blocked line?
>
> Gosh. Can't you figure out bleach verses algae?
MLD
Jun 4, 2012, 6:53:31 PM6/4/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4FCD2789...@Guy.com...
out. Repeat several times and then maybe you'll understand how it works.
MLD
Home Guy
Jun 4, 2012, 7:41:23 PM6/4/12
to
MLD wrote:
> > If the bleach can find it's way down into the line -> then the
> > line must not be blocked.
>
> Bleach solution dissolves blockage---
> > If the bleach can find it's way down into the line -> then the
> > line must not be blocked.
>
Fail.
How does it get to the place where the blockage is when there's going to
be water (or junk) already accumulated above the blockage?
Maybe in a few weeks, months or years the bleach would diffuse into the
line to the extent necessary to perform this magical unblocking...
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 5, 2012, 7:49:26 AM6/5/12
to
On Jun 4, 9:58 am, Home Guy <H...@Guy.com> wrote:
be possible to get a liquid into the drain line or AC
pan.
>
> Those that are proposing to use bleach have yet to explain the entire
> proceedure - which according to you involves cutting the line. Nobody
> else has proposed that step.
>
> > Once it's cut you can do anything you want, including pouring
> > something into the pan under the coils, if that's what he
> > wants to do.
>
> It's not always the case that the coils and condensate pan are easy to
> get to - without taking the plenum apart.
I never said anything about getting to the coils
and condensate pan.
>
> > > And we don't even know if it's made with PVC vs copper in this case.
>
> > I've seen a lot of HVAC here in the USA. I've yet to see a
> > residential central AC use copper for the condensate line.
> > I've seen Holmes run around to a bunch of them in Canada on
> > TV too and never seen anything but PVC.
>
> At my office and home they are copper.
Given your record here for sensationalism and
pure hysteria, forgive us if we don't believe you.
>
> > But then you're in your own little universe, so who knows..
>
> Apparently your universe includes poorly-designed systems, components or
> materials.
Then there must be one hell of a lot of poorly
designed systems out there because PVC is used
in every residential system I've seen. And for good
reason. It's a fraction of the cost of copper, it works, and there is
nothing wrong with it.
>
> Unless the furnace / air-handler is located very close to (or directly
> over) a basement drain, then a plastic condensate line that is run
> across open floor to the nearest drain can be stepped on, pinched or
> otherwise collapse and block proper drainage.
Then that is the problem. You're dealing with half-assed
installations that have nothing to do with the PVC or
copper. I have yet to see PVC pipe get pinched or
just collapse. Even if you step on it, it doesn't pinch
or collapse, unless it's heated to 250F. And no drain
should be run across a floor.
>Naturally this collapse
> is more difficult when the line is made of ordinary 1/2" copper pipe.
It's impossible if you do the drain right, instead of running
it across the floor for people to trip on. Geeez...
> "trad...@optonline.net" wrote:
> > > If you're going to cut it, then put it back together, you're
> > > telling me that it's worth the time and effort to clean it
> > > with chemicals vs spending $2 for a new section of PVC?
>
> > I'm telling you how to access the pipe to do whatever you
> > want with it. Because as usual, you seem confused.
>
> I'm making the point about dicking around with the clogged pipe with
> bleach because that's the direction this thread took, and I'm wondering
> why that's a better way to deal with the problem vs blowing it with
> compressed air.
>
> I'm asking those that propose to use bleach how they make it run up the
> drain line. If you're not one of those proposing to use bleach, then
> why are you butting in now?
Because YOU raised the question of how it would
> > > If you're going to cut it, then put it back together, you're
> > > telling me that it's worth the time and effort to clean it
> > > with chemicals vs spending $2 for a new section of PVC?
>
> > I'm telling you how to access the pipe to do whatever you
> > want with it. Because as usual, you seem confused.
>
> I'm making the point about dicking around with the clogged pipe with
> bleach because that's the direction this thread took, and I'm wondering
> why that's a better way to deal with the problem vs blowing it with
> compressed air.
>
> I'm asking those that propose to use bleach how they make it run up the
> drain line. If you're not one of those proposing to use bleach, then
> why are you butting in now?
be possible to get a liquid into the drain line or AC
pan.
>
> Those that are proposing to use bleach have yet to explain the entire
> proceedure - which according to you involves cutting the line. Nobody
> else has proposed that step.
>
> > Once it's cut you can do anything you want, including pouring
> > something into the pan under the coils, if that's what he
> > wants to do.
>
> It's not always the case that the coils and condensate pan are easy to
> get to - without taking the plenum apart.
and condensate pan.
>
> > > And we don't even know if it's made with PVC vs copper in this case.
>
> > I've seen a lot of HVAC here in the USA. I've yet to see a
> > residential central AC use copper for the condensate line.
> > I've seen Holmes run around to a bunch of them in Canada on
> > TV too and never seen anything but PVC.
>
> At my office and home they are copper.
pure hysteria, forgive us if we don't believe you.
>
> > But then you're in your own little universe, so who knows..
>
> Apparently your universe includes poorly-designed systems, components or
> materials.
designed systems out there because PVC is used
in every residential system I've seen. And for good
reason. It's a fraction of the cost of copper, it works, and there is
nothing wrong with it.
>
> Unless the furnace / air-handler is located very close to (or directly
> over) a basement drain, then a plastic condensate line that is run
> across open floor to the nearest drain can be stepped on, pinched or
> otherwise collapse and block proper drainage.
installations that have nothing to do with the PVC or
copper. I have yet to see PVC pipe get pinched or
just collapse. Even if you step on it, it doesn't pinch
or collapse, unless it's heated to 250F. And no drain
should be run across a floor.
>Naturally this collapse
> is more difficult when the line is made of ordinary 1/2" copper pipe.
it across the floor for people to trip on. Geeez...
Oren
Jun 5, 2012, 8:51:45 AM6/5/12
to
be plugged". But in your failed attempt to be smarter than other
people, you have summarily declared the line is "blocked".
You and harry should really get a room together.
Home Guy
Jun 5, 2012, 9:35:57 AM6/5/12
to
Oren wrote:
> As the OP clearly stated it "appears to be plugged". But in
> your failed attempt to be smarter than other people, you have
> summarily declared the line is "blocked".
Do you know how stupid you sound?
> As the OP clearly stated it "appears to be plugged". But in
> your failed attempt to be smarter than other people, you have
> summarily declared the line is "blocked".
For most people, "appears to be plugged" = "plugged".
For most people, plugged = blocked.
MLD
Jun 5, 2012, 9:48:16 AM6/5/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4FCD47A3...@Guy.com...
mental blockage. Let's kindergarten this a bit------ Try this---forget
condensate drain and think sink drain blockage. Have you ever heard of
"Liquid Plumber or Draino"? You put it in the sink and then it mixes with
the water above the blockage and somehow, magically via a chemical reaction,
manages to eliminate the blockage. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp,
you really can't be that dumb!
Home Guy
Jun 5, 2012, 10:03:46 AM6/5/12
to
MLD wrote:
> > How does it get to the place where the blockage is when there's
> > going to be water (or junk) already accumulated above the
> > blockage?
> >
> > Maybe in a few weeks, months or years the bleach would diffuse
> > into the line to the extent necessary to perform this magical
> > unblocking...
>
> You've got a problem---you need to find something that will
> dissolve a mental blockage.
You (and others) have a basic problem of being able to visualize the
> > How does it get to the place where the blockage is when there's
> > going to be water (or junk) already accumulated above the
> > blockage?
> >
> > Maybe in a few weeks, months or years the bleach would diffuse
> > into the line to the extent necessary to perform this magical
> > unblocking...
>
> You've got a problem---you need to find something that will
> dissolve a mental blockage.
situation.
> Have you ever heard of "Liquid Plumber or Draino"? You put it
> in the sink and then it mixes with the water above the blockage
> and somehow, magically via a chemical reaction, manages to
> eliminate the blockage.
For one thing, most people use liquid plumber or draino when there is at
least *some* draining or flow still happening.
Second, draino crystals are heavy and will sink to the bottom where
(presumably) they will directly contact the blocking material. This is
aided by the fact that the diameter of your sink drain is large and the
crystals can access or reach the blocking material, and the distance
involved is very short.
Now, contrast all that with the A/C condensation line. It's highly
likely that the average home owner will not be attending their furnace
to the extent that they would notice the condensation line in the
process of getting plugged (as they would with any sink drain in the
house). It's only when the condensation line is completely plugged (and
causing over-filling and leaking elsewhere) would the home owner detect
a problem.
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 5, 2012, 9:12:39 AM6/5/12
to
Oren
Jun 5, 2012, 10:34:44 AM6/5/12
to
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 09:35:57 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>For most people, "appears to be plugged" = "plugged".
>
>For most people, plugged = blocked.
Home Guy "appears" to be an idiot = idiot.
>For most people, "appears to be plugged" = "plugged".
>
>For most people, plugged = blocked.
For "most people" idiot = idiot.
MLD
Jun 5, 2012, 10:47:52 AM6/5/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4FCE11C2...@Guy.com...
plumber is only effective if there is some flow--is that what you're trying
to convey. I think that the makers of Liquid Plumber would take issue with
you----apparently you've never seen the liquid plumber TV commercials--very
dramatic how it works so nicely. I had a completely blocked condensate
line--water in the pan almost to the top of it. Several hours after I put
in the bleach solution the pan was empty and the water that I put into it
ran freely to the outside drain. I guess you're one of the "My mind is made
up, don't confuse me with facts" types.
Oren
Jun 5, 2012, 4:44:29 PM6/5/12
to
Check this out:
_Cleaning your A/C condensate drain line in 5 minutes _
I bet they can me made easily with from parts from the garage scraps.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyvPR7yMqbk>
Home Guy
Jun 5, 2012, 5:51:51 PM6/5/12
to
Oren used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily
full-quoting:
> Seems Home Guy is not one of the "sane Canadians".
>
> Check this out:
>
> _Cleaning your A/C condensate drain line in 5 minutes _
(attach a shop-vac to the end of the condensate line)
Yea, I'm not one of those "sane" Canadians - that would suggest
something other than a crazy-ass bleach method to clear the condensate
line, like maybe blow the line with an air compressor.
full-quoting:
> Seems Home Guy is not one of the "sane Canadians".
>
> Check this out:
>
> _Cleaning your A/C condensate drain line in 5 minutes _
Yea, I'm not one of those "sane" Canadians - that would suggest
something other than a crazy-ass bleach method to clear the condensate
line, like maybe blow the line with an air compressor.
Home Guy
Jun 5, 2012, 6:02:36 PM6/5/12
to
MLD full-quoted:
> So draino crystals sink to the blockage and do their magic but
> liquid plumber is only effective if there is some flow--is that
> what you're trying to convey.
If there is ZERO flow, then what-ever you're adding to perform a
chemical reaction with (or near) the blocking material must get close to
the blocking material - or be in direct contact with the blocking
material.
If I have a sink full of water, and the sink drain is completely
blocked, then how effective do you think it will be to add a liquid to
the sink water?
> I think that the makers of Liquid Plumber would take issue with
> you----apparently you've never seen the liquid plumber TV
> commercials--very dramatic how it works so nicely.
Liquid plumber is a dense liquid that (like the draino crystals) will
sink down through the water and into the drain.
> I had a completely blocked condensate line--water in the pan almost
> to the top of it. Several hours after I put in the bleach solution
> the pan was empty and the water that I put into it ran freely to the
> outside drain. I guess you're one of the "My mind is made
> up, don't confuse me with facts" types.
Normally, the condensate pan is hard to access in most furnaces / AC
systems.
Your blockage must have been near the outlet where the pan is connected
to the condensate line. If the line was blocked further down, it would
have taken much longer (if at all) for the bleach to clear the line.
> So draino crystals sink to the blockage and do their magic but
> liquid plumber is only effective if there is some flow--is that
> what you're trying to convey.
chemical reaction with (or near) the blocking material must get close to
the blocking material - or be in direct contact with the blocking
material.
If I have a sink full of water, and the sink drain is completely
blocked, then how effective do you think it will be to add a liquid to
the sink water?
> I think that the makers of Liquid Plumber would take issue with
> you----apparently you've never seen the liquid plumber TV
> commercials--very dramatic how it works so nicely.
sink down through the water and into the drain.
> I had a completely blocked condensate line--water in the pan almost
> to the top of it. Several hours after I put in the bleach solution
> the pan was empty and the water that I put into it ran freely to the
> outside drain. I guess you're one of the "My mind is made
> up, don't confuse me with facts" types.
systems.
Your blockage must have been near the outlet where the pan is connected
to the condensate line. If the line was blocked further down, it would
have taken much longer (if at all) for the bleach to clear the line.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Jun 5, 2012, 3:55:21 PM6/5/12
to
Oren
Jun 5, 2012, 6:23:59 PM6/5/12
to
Home Guy farts in his space suit.
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 17:51:51 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>Oren used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily
>full-quoting:
>
Screw you. I wasn't responding to you so crawl back in your hole under
the rock. Next you will apply to be a Usenet Skewl teacher... dumb
ass. Who died and made you King?
>> Seems Home Guy is not one of the "sane Canadians".
>>
>> Check this out:
>>
>> _Cleaning your A/C condensate drain line in 5 minutes _
>
>(attach a shop-vac to the end of the condensate line)
>
>Yea, I'm not one of those "sane" Canadians - that would suggest
>something other than a crazy-ass bleach method to clear the condensate
>line, like maybe blow the line with an air compressor.
Why would I crawl into an attic at 100+ F to dick around with an air
hose? I can pour some bleach into the pan drain / line easier, if I
ever had such a task. 18 years in the desert I don't have a clogged
line.
All you want to do is argue your only suggestion. A smart person,
other than yourself, would listen to reasonable people and consider
other approaches to solving the problem.
ya farkin' narcissistic psychopathic smuck!
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 17:51:51 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>Oren used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily
>full-quoting:
>
the rock. Next you will apply to be a Usenet Skewl teacher... dumb
ass. Who died and made you King?
>> Seems Home Guy is not one of the "sane Canadians".
>>
>> Check this out:
>>
>> _Cleaning your A/C condensate drain line in 5 minutes _
>
>(attach a shop-vac to the end of the condensate line)
>
>Yea, I'm not one of those "sane" Canadians - that would suggest
>something other than a crazy-ass bleach method to clear the condensate
>line, like maybe blow the line with an air compressor.
hose? I can pour some bleach into the pan drain / line easier, if I
ever had such a task. 18 years in the desert I don't have a clogged
line.
All you want to do is argue your only suggestion. A smart person,
other than yourself, would listen to reasonable people and consider
other approaches to solving the problem.
ya farkin' narcissistic psychopathic smuck!
Oren
Jun 5, 2012, 6:44:14 PM6/5/12
to
how to steal movies off the Internet and brag about it in AHR.
Home Guy
Jun 5, 2012, 8:28:01 PM6/5/12
to
Oren wrote:
> Why would I crawl into an attic at 100+ F to dick around with an
> air hose?
What kind of moron puts an air-conditioner inside a 100+ F attic?
> Why would I crawl into an attic at 100+ F to dick around with an
> air hose?
And even if it was in the attic - your condensate line would run *out*
of the attic, to a place where it could drain -> AND be more accessible
than the condensate pan.
> I can pour some bleach into the pan drain / line easier, if I
> ever had such a task.
So you're telling me that blasting some compressed air into the end of
the drain line is *harder* than crawling into an attic, dis-assembling
the plenum or taking a cover-plate off, and shoe-horning some bleach
into the drain pan?
> 18 years in the desert I don't have a clogged line.
> All you want to do is argue your only suggestion.
ergonomic to pour bleach into the drain pan vs blowing compressed air
into the line from the accessible exit-point of the line. Sticking a
shop-vac into the end of the line and pulling the junk out is also a
good idea and worth a try way before the bleach-in-the-pan idea.
> A smart person, other than yourself, would listen to reasonable
> people and consider other approaches to solving the problem.
issues as to why the "draino" method has problems.
Oren
Jun 5, 2012, 9:43:15 PM6/5/12
to
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 20:28:01 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>Oren wrote:
>
>> Why would I crawl into an attic at 100+ F to dick around with an
>> air hose?
>
>What kind of moron puts an air-conditioner inside a 100+ F attic?
Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
>Oren wrote:
>
>> Why would I crawl into an attic at 100+ F to dick around with an
>> air hose?
>
>What kind of moron puts an air-conditioner inside a 100+ F attic?
>
>And even if it was in the attic - your condensate line would run *out*
>of the attic, to a place where it could drain -> AND be more accessible
>than the condensate pan.
>
You got something right for a change. Not much, but something, anyway.
>And even if it was in the attic - your condensate line would run *out*
>of the attic, to a place where it could drain -> AND be more accessible
>than the condensate pan.
>
>> I can pour some bleach into the pan drain / line easier, if I
>> ever had such a task.
>
>Even if your A/C unit is inside the attic?
between touching yourself or servicing an algae clogged line.
>
>So you're telling me that blasting some compressed air into the end of
>the drain line is *harder* than crawling into an attic, dis-assembling
>the plenum or taking a cover-plate off, and shoe-horning some bleach
>into the drain pan?
check, being from Canada. Even Holmes on Homes knows what I'm talking
about. Get him to explain it to you, okay, eh?
>
>> 18 years in the desert I don't have a clogged line.
>
>So that makes you an expert in how to clear a blocked line?
>
condensate lines -- you tell me, smuck! Heck, tell the world about
your glorious knowledge. Tell about your limited solutions for
clearing a line.
>> All you want to do is argue your only suggestion.
>
>I really want a logical, rational explanation as to why it's more
>ergonomic to pour bleach into the drain pan vs blowing compressed air
>into the line from the accessible exit-point of the line. Sticking a
>shop-vac into the end of the line and pulling the junk out is also a
>good idea and worth a try way before the bleach-in-the-pan idea.
slower?
>
>> A smart person, other than yourself, would listen to reasonable
>> people and consider other approaches to solving the problem.
>
>I have listened, and I have pointed out what I think are real functional
>issues as to why the "draino" method has problems.
So tell the world why bleach doesn't work, but only your narrow minded
approach is better than people here have posted.
Home Guy
Jun 6, 2012, 12:03:21 AM6/6/12
to
Oren wrote:
> >> Why would I crawl into an attic at 100+ F to dick around with an
> >> air hose?
> >
> > What kind of moron puts an air-conditioner inside a 100+ F attic?
>
> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
> >> Why would I crawl into an attic at 100+ F to dick around with an
> >> air hose?
> >
> > What kind of moron puts an air-conditioner inside a 100+ F attic?
>
> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
Oren
Jun 6, 2012, 12:57:19 AM6/6/12
to
where did you catch the fish. I don't have to explain to YOU how
things work.
To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is in the
attic. ONLY half.
Is that enough of a clue that you may, by some odd method, be able to
figure it out?
I expect that soon you will find out that you are not as smart as you
think you are.
Go ahead. Bore the Americans with how talented your are, eh?
Home Guy
Jun 6, 2012, 8:44:19 AM6/6/12
to
Oren wrote:
> >> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
> >
> > Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
> (insert juvenile remark here)
> >> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
> >
> > Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
>
> To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
> in the attic. ONLY half.
Well no shit sherlock.
> To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
> in the attic. ONLY half.
That includes your evap coil, the plenum and the condensation pan.
Which if you ask me, it's moronic to put any HVAC components inside an
attic. Much harder to thermally insulate it. A very inefficiant
location for a lot of reasons (access, noise and vibration, etc).
But beyond that, again your making the case that if the drain line is
plugged, then it's more ergonomic to use a bleach solution in the pan -
vs blowing out the line from it's exterior exit location? How exactly
do you rationalize that?
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 6, 2012, 9:58:18 AM6/6/12
to
On Jun 6, 8:44 am, Home Guy <H...@Guy.com> wrote:
> Oren wrote:
> > >> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
>
> > > Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
> > (insert juvenile remark here)
>
> > To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
> > in the attic. ONLY half.
>
> Well no shit sherlock.
>
> That includes your evap coil, the plenum and the condensation pan.
>
> Which if you ask me, it's moronic to put any HVAC components inside an
> attic. Much harder to thermally insulate it. A very inefficiant
> location for a lot of reasons (access, noise and vibration, etc).
HomelessGuy has great difficulty visualizing anything
> Oren wrote:
> > >> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
>
> > > Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
> > (insert juvenile remark here)
>
> > To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
> > in the attic. ONLY half.
>
> Well no shit sherlock.
>
> That includes your evap coil, the plenum and the condensation pan.
>
> Which if you ask me, it's moronic to put any HVAC components inside an
> attic. Much harder to thermally insulate it. A very inefficiant
> location for a lot of reasons (access, noise and vibration, etc).
beyond his little cardboard box. He can't imagine
large two story homes where it's not at all unusal to
find one HVAC unit in the attic, one in the basement.
Is it the ideal situation? No. But a lot of the above
is pure nonsense.
EG: noise, vibration - Haven't been around a modern HVAC unit
apparently.
Access? Crawl into attic? - I walk into mine
>
> But beyond that, again your making the case that if the drain line is
> plugged, then it's more ergonomic to use a bleach solution in the pan -
> vs blowing out the line from it's exterior exit location? How exactly
> do you rationalize that?
laundry room, mix it with some water in a pot, walk upstairs and
into the attic and pour.
Blowing it out, I'd back the car out, move the lawn mower,
roll out the air compressor, find the nozzle for it, wheel
it around the house, get an extension cord, plug it in,
uncoil the air hose. And then I'd have to figure out how
to get the end of the air hose connected to the condensate line
And then I'd have to start cutting
pipe because the condensate line runs inside the house
down to the basement where it joins the line from the
basement furnace. So the exiting end of the condensate
line isn't even directly available.
MLD
Jun 6, 2012, 9:58:26 AM6/6/12
to
SNIP>>
touch the bottom of the pan. Used to be a humidifier there, now a piece of
sheet metal covers the hole providing an easy access when ever I need it.
Boy--you must be miserable to be with in a car if you ever run into a road
block or detour. You're not going to move because this is the way you
always go and that's it!!
>> outside drain. I guess you're one of the "My mind is made
>> up, don't confuse me with facts" types.
>
> Normally, the condensate pan is hard to access in most furnaces / AC
> systems.
>
> Your blockage must have been near the outlet where the pan is connected
> to the condensate line. If the line was blocked further down, it would
> have taken much longer (if at all) for the bleach to clear the line.
How about cutout in the plenum right above the drain pan-I can reach in and
>> up, don't confuse me with facts" types.
>
> Normally, the condensate pan is hard to access in most furnaces / AC
> systems.
>
> Your blockage must have been near the outlet where the pan is connected
> to the condensate line. If the line was blocked further down, it would
> have taken much longer (if at all) for the bleach to clear the line.
touch the bottom of the pan. Used to be a humidifier there, now a piece of
sheet metal covers the hole providing an easy access when ever I need it.
Boy--you must be miserable to be with in a car if you ever run into a road
block or detour. You're not going to move because this is the way you
always go and that's it!!
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Jun 6, 2012, 12:16:54 PM6/6/12
to
On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 08:44:19 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>Oren wrote:
>
>> >> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
>> >
>> > Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
>
>> (insert juvenile remark here)
>>
>> To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
>> in the attic. ONLY half.
>
>Well no shit sherlock.
>
>That includes your evap coil, the plenum and the condensation pan.
>
>Which if you ask me, it's moronic to put any HVAC components inside an
>attic. Much harder to thermally insulate it. A very inefficiant
>location for a lot of reasons (access, noise and vibration, etc).
The upstairs HVAC unit in my Alabama house is in the attic. Both units are in
>Oren wrote:
>
>> >> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
>> >
>> > Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
>
>> (insert juvenile remark here)
>>
>> To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
>> in the attic. ONLY half.
>
>Well no shit sherlock.
>
>That includes your evap coil, the plenum and the condensation pan.
>
>Which if you ask me, it's moronic to put any HVAC components inside an
>attic. Much harder to thermally insulate it. A very inefficiant
>location for a lot of reasons (access, noise and vibration, etc).
the attic in my Georgia house. But what would you expect a dumb Cannuckistani
to know about AC?
>But beyond that, again your making the case that if the drain line is
>plugged, then it's more ergonomic to use a bleach solution in the pan -
>vs blowing out the line from it's exterior exit location? How exactly
>do you rationalize that?
it's in a wall somewhere.
Sjouke Burry
Jun 6, 2012, 5:08:15 PM6/6/12
to
Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in news:nbnts79e8s73h8nov7glvqim2p0a0g8tkb@
4ax.com:
The way you ask questions, deserves a hefty kick in the but.
4ax.com:
HeyBub
Jun 6, 2012, 5:17:03 PM6/6/12
to
Home Guy wrote:
> Oren wrote:
>
>>>> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
>>>
>>> Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
>
>> (insert juvenile remark here)
>>
>> To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
>> in the attic. ONLY half.
>
> Well no shit sherlock.
>
> That includes your evap coil, the plenum and the condensation pan.
>
> Which if you ask me, it's moronic to put any HVAC components inside an
> attic. Much harder to thermally insulate it. A very inefficiant
> location for a lot of reasons (access, noise and vibration, etc).
>
A. Nobody asked you.
> Oren wrote:
>
>>>> Did I SAY the "air-conditioner" was in the attic? Eh?
>>>
>>> Then tell us what part of your hvac system is in the attic.
>
>> (insert juvenile remark here)
>>
>> To answer the silly question for you, HALF of my HVAC system is
>> in the attic. ONLY half.
>
> Well no shit sherlock.
>
> That includes your evap coil, the plenum and the condensation pan.
>
> Which if you ask me, it's moronic to put any HVAC components inside an
> attic. Much harder to thermally insulate it. A very inefficiant
> location for a lot of reasons (access, noise and vibration, etc).
>
B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
Home Guy
Jun 6, 2012, 8:39:43 PM6/6/12
to
"tra...@optonline.net" wrote:
> HomelessGuy has great difficulty visualizing anything beyond his
> little cardboard box.
An obtuse observation based on the conversation thus far.
> HomelessGuy has great difficulty visualizing anything beyond his
> little cardboard box.
> He can't imagine large two story homes where it's not at all
> unusal to find one HVAC unit in the attic, one in the basement.
thermodynamic point of view if nothing else.
> Is it the ideal situation? No.
> EG: noise, vibration - Haven't been around a modern HVAC unit
> apparently.
Really?
Tell us more.
> Access? Crawl into attic? - I walk into mine
(a) a large, 2-story house (with a furnace in the basement and a furnace
in the attic) and also (b) a large, walk-in attic.
I see. What a nice world you live in.
> If I were to do the bleach method, I'd grab the bleach from
> the laundry room, mix it with some water in a pot, walk
> upstairs and into the attic and pour.
out in the open?
I see.
And you are garanteed that the beach will work?
> Blowing it out, I'd back the car out, move the lawn mower, roll
I'd charge up my 5-gallon portable tank, connect air-hose and
trigger-operated air gun, carry it down to basement furnace, shove
nozzle of air-gun into 1/2" copper condensate line and wrap my hand
around the end of the line to form a good-enough seal, pull trigger,
remove air gun and observe water flowing out of line and into drain.
Home Guy
Jun 6, 2012, 8:57:33 PM6/6/12
to
"k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
> The upstairs HVAC unit in my Alabama house is in the attic. Both
> units are in the attic in my Georgia house. But what would you
> expect a dumb Cannuckistani to know about AC?
How does discussing *where* the hvac system is located in a house have
> The upstairs HVAC unit in my Alabama house is in the attic. Both
> units are in the attic in my Georgia house. But what would you
> expect a dumb Cannuckistani to know about AC?
anything to do with "knowing" about AC?
What a twisted thought-process you have to make such a statement.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Jun 6, 2012, 8:58:03 PM6/6/12
to
On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:39:43 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>"tra...@optonline.net" wrote:
>
>> HomelessGuy has great difficulty visualizing anything beyond his
>> little cardboard box.
>
>An obtuse observation based on the conversation thus far.
>
>> He can't imagine large two story homes where it's not at all
>> unusal to find one HVAC unit in the attic, one in the basement.
>
>An HVAC in the attic is still not the best place for it - from a
>thermodynamic point of view if nothing else.
It's the best place for it for floorspace and duct layout.
>"tra...@optonline.net" wrote:
>
>> HomelessGuy has great difficulty visualizing anything beyond his
>> little cardboard box.
>
>An obtuse observation based on the conversation thus far.
>
>> He can't imagine large two story homes where it's not at all
>> unusal to find one HVAC unit in the attic, one in the basement.
>
>An HVAC in the attic is still not the best place for it - from a
>thermodynamic point of view if nothing else.
>> Is it the ideal situation? No.
>
>So you agree with me about that.
However, it's a *very* common place to put the EVAC unit in the South.
>> EG: noise, vibration - Haven't been around a modern HVAC unit
>> apparently.
>
>What - they don't have motors or fans or moving parts in them any more?
>
>Really?
>Tell us more.
>
>> Access? Crawl into attic? - I walk into mine
>
>So now everyone that has an hvac in their attic, according to you, has
>(a) a large, 2-story house (with a furnace in the basement and a furnace
>in the attic) and also (b) a large, walk-in attic.
house is 15:12. DOn't know what it is in this house (haven't measure it -
haven't even been in the attic yet). Yes, it's rather easy to walk around in
the attic. It's a huge cavern up there.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Jun 6, 2012, 9:00:00 PM6/6/12
to
On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:57:33 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>"k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
>
>> The upstairs HVAC unit in my Alabama house is in the attic. Both
>> units are in the attic in my Georgia house. But what would you
>> expect a dumb Cannuckistani to know about AC?
>
>How does discussing *where* the hvac system is located in a house have
>anything to do with "knowing" about AC?
You obviously know little about the art.
>"k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
>
>> The upstairs HVAC unit in my Alabama house is in the attic. Both
>> units are in the attic in my Georgia house. But what would you
>> expect a dumb Cannuckistani to know about AC?
>
>How does discussing *where* the hvac system is located in a house have
>anything to do with "knowing" about AC?
>What a twisted thought-process you have to make such a statement.
Home Guy
Jun 6, 2012, 9:12:10 PM6/6/12
to
HeyBub wrote:
> B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
What?
> B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
Millions of homes in the USA have their HVAC unit in the attic?
I still say it's a crazy-ass place to put it.
http://accurateinspection.com/attic_ductwork.htm
====================
Ductwork in an attic is normally the largest energy problem in the home
or building.
The reasons why this practice should be avoided are comfort complaints,
heating & cooling losses in the attic ductwork and air handler, higher
energy bills, maintenance difficulties and system failures.
Most HVAC contractors install cooling systems in the attic based on the
theory that cold air falls down.
====================
Really?
What a retarded theory.
Maybe they mean most American HVAC contractors install cooling systems
in the attic for that cockamamee reason.
====================
However, the real reason most of them install them in the attic, is that
it is a lot easier and less expensive to install the system. there are a
number of problems with this type of installation:
ATTIC AIR HANDLER and DUCTWORK PROBLEMS:
1. The attic air handler and ductwork system is normally insulated
to R-4 and is installed above the attic insulation causing
minimal resistance to heat and cooling losses through the
ductwork and air handler.
2. The size and cost of the system will have to be increased due to
the cooling and heating losses through the thinner attic ductwork
insulation. A larger system will be required to compensate for
this inefficiency.
3. The systems will have to run longer to make up for the losses in
the attic ductwork.
4. There is also inefficiency, due to the fact that the cooling system
is generating cooling in the hottest part of the house and the
heating system is generating heat in the coldest part of the house
in the winter.
5. On a typical attic installation the temperature differential from
the attic air handler unit to the supply register on the other
side of the house can be as much as 8 degrees. This amount of
cooling loss cannot be made up with just over sizing the system.
6. Additionally, most attic access doors/hatches are not insulated
which will allow more winter heat to escape up into the attic.
7. The attic heat in the summer time will also migrate down into
the house through the ducts and attic access, making the system
have to run longer to cool the warmer air.
8. This design is very wasteful in the winter. The house heat will
rise up by stack effect into the supply and return ducts in the
winter, making the 10 inches of attic insulation mostly ineffective.
This air will flow into attic ducts and air handler to be lost
through the thinner insulation and leakage points in the ductwork.
9. The heating system will have to recycle on and off more often to
make up for this stack loss.
10. Delivery duct leakage into attics increases the cost of operation
because the system has to run longer to make up for the leakage
lost to the attic.
11. Return duct leaks allow frigid winter air to be introduced into
the system, increasing the heating load.
12. Return duct leakage in the summer pulls very hot humid air into
the system, increasing cooling and dehumidification loads.
MAINTENANCE DIFFICULTIES:
In many attics the air handler system is installed in the corner,
sometimes behind the supply and return ductwork. The only way to get to
the filter for regular cleaning or replacement (monthly) is to climb
over the ductwork, sometimes damaging the ducts. Most homeowners don’t
even go into the attic to change the filter, even if the air handler is
easy to access. Because of this hard to access filter, most filters are
not changed on a regular basis, causing the filter and cooling coil to
become dirty and clogged, reducing the efficiency and air circulation of
the already inefficient system. The house will have increased
operational costs and the furthest rooms from the air handler will not
be cooled or heated efficiently or adequately.
====================================
Up here in Canada, we don't do crazy-ass things like put hvac units in
our attics.
So what do we know about Americans so far?
1) They think it's normal to urinate in the sink - if only because it's
more conveinent (remember my thread about installing urinals for
residential use?) and
2) They think it's normal (even preferrable) to put the ac/furnace in
the attic.
Oh yea:
3) Almost half of all americans with mortgages are under water
(financially speaking - although many of you like to build homes on
flood plains).
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Jun 6, 2012, 9:53:52 PM6/6/12
to
On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:12:10 -0400, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>HeyBub wrote:
>
>> B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
>
>What?
>
>Millions of homes in the USA have their HVAC unit in the attic?
Yes, that's what people have been telling you but you're too stupid to
>HeyBub wrote:
>
>> B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
>
>What?
>
>Millions of homes in the USA have their HVAC unit in the attic?
understand.
It's not.
<Diahreah of the keyboard snipped>
Home Guy
Jun 6, 2012, 10:28:39 PM6/6/12
to
"k...@att.biz" wrote:
> > http://accurateinspection.com/attic_ductwork.htm
> <Diahreah of the keyboard snipped>
<krw head inserted into sand>
> > http://accurateinspection.com/attic_ductwork.htm
> <Diahreah of the keyboard snipped>
Oren
Jun 7, 2012, 9:36:35 AM6/7/12
to
On 06 Jun 2012 21:08:15 GMT, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:
>>Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote
>The way you ask questions, deserves a hefty kick in the but.
Frankly, Mr. Burry, I don't "give a damn" about your opinion or the
opinion of your Queen Beatrix.
My life does not hinge on the opinions of others, especially socialist
Europeans, like yourself.
>>Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote
>The way you ask questions, deserves a hefty kick in the but.
opinion of your Queen Beatrix.
My life does not hinge on the opinions of others, especially socialist
Europeans, like yourself.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Jun 7, 2012, 9:55:47 AM6/7/12
to
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 7, 2012, 10:24:24 AM6/7/12
to
On Jun 6, 9:12 pm, Home Guy <H...@Guy.com> wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
> > B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
>
> What?
>
> Millions of homes in the USA have their HVAC unit in the attic?
They sure do. Maybe that's because contrary to your
> HeyBub wrote:
> > B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
>
> What?
>
> Millions of homes in the USA have their HVAC unit in the attic?
notions, the USA is a country where a lot of people have
big houses. And when you have a big, two story house,
it's not unusual to have two HVAC units. One in the
basement, one in the attic.
>
> I still say it's a crazy-ass place to put it.
put it in the attic.
>
> http://accurateinspection.com/attic_ductwork.htm
>
> ====================
> Ductwork in an attic is normally the largest energy problem in the home
> or building.
>
> The reasons why this practice should be avoided are comfort complaints,
> heating & cooling losses in the attic ductwork and air handler, higher
> energy bills, maintenance difficulties and system failures.
>
> Most HVAC contractors install cooling systems in the attic based on the
> theory that cold air falls down.
much about HVAC. That reason is about the dumbest
I've heard.
>
> Really?
>
> What a retarded theory.
> ====================
> However, the real reason most of them install them in the attic, is that
> it is a lot easier and less expensive to install the system.
that cold air fall down....
> there are a
> number of problems with this type of installation:
>
> ATTIC AIR HANDLER and DUCTWORK PROBLEMS:
>
> 1. The attic air handler and ductwork system is normally insulated
> to R-4 and is installed above the attic insulation causing
> minimal resistance to heat and cooling losses through the
> ductwork and air handler.
>
> 2. The size and cost of the system will have to be increased due to
> the cooling and heating losses through the thinner attic ductwork
> insulation. A larger system will be required to compensate for
> this inefficiency.
>
> 3. The systems will have to run longer to make up for the losses in
> the attic ductwork.
>
> 4. There is also inefficiency, due to the fact that the cooling system
> is generating cooling in the hottest part of the house and the
> heating system is generating heat in the coldest part of the house
> in the winter.
mention of the positive reasons for putting HVAC in the
attic.
>
> 5. On a typical attic installation the temperature differential from
> the attic air handler unit to the supply register on the other
> side of the house can be as much as 8 degrees. This amount of
> cooling loss cannot be made up with just over sizing the system.
in the attic, then off course you can increase the size of
the system to make up for it.
>
> 6. Additionally, most attic access doors/hatches are not insulated
> which will allow more winter heat to escape up into the attic.
>
> 7. The attic heat in the summer time will also migrate down into
> the house through the ducts and attic access, making the system
> have to run longer to cool the warmer air.
>
> 8. This design is very wasteful in the winter. The house heat will
> rise up by stack effect into the supply and return ducts in the
> winter, making the 10 inches of attic insulation mostly ineffective.
> This air will flow into attic ducts and air handler to be lost
> through the thinner insulation and leakage points in the ductwork.
>
> 9. The heating system will have to recycle on and off more often to
> make up for this stack loss.
>
> 10. Delivery duct leakage into attics increases the cost of operation
> because the system has to run longer to make up for the leakage
> lost to the attic.
pretty much the same thing happens.
>
> 11. Return duct leaks allow frigid winter air to be introduced into
> the system, increasing the heating load.
>
> 12. Return duct leakage in the summer pulls very hot humid air into
> the system, increasing cooling and dehumidification loads.
>
> MAINTENANCE DIFFICULTIES:
>
> In many attics the air handler system is installed in the corner,
> sometimes behind the supply and return ductwork.
>The only way to get to
> the filter for regular cleaning or replacement (monthly) is to climb
> over the ductwork, sometimes damaging the ducts.
seen it done in access isn't a problem.
>Most homeowners don’t
> even go into the attic to change the filter, even if the air handler is
> easy to access.
filter if it;s in the basement either.
>Because of this hard to access filter, most filters are
> not changed on a regular basis, causing the filter and cooling coil to
> become dirty and clogged, reducing the efficiency and air circulation of
> the already inefficient system. The house will have increased
> operational costs and the furthest rooms from the air handler will not
> be cooled or heated efficiently or adequately.
> ====================================
>
What is missing in all this is a fair comparison with
the other alternatives. In a large two story house the
attic is a convenient place. It provides a space close
to the area served and it's very easy to run the duct
work. I've never seen an attic unit as the only unit
in the house. One unit is in the basement, one in
the attic. How do they do HVAC for a 4000 square
foot house in Canada?
Oren
Jun 7, 2012, 3:32:41 PM6/7/12
to
On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 07:24:24 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> > B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
>>
>> What?
>>
>> Millions of homes in the USA have their HVAC unit in the attic?
>
>They sure do. Maybe that's because contrary to your
>notions, the USA is a country where a lot of people have
>big houses. And when you have a big, two story house,
>it's not unusual to have two HVAC units. One in the
>basement, one in the attic.
>
As do shopping malls, Hoggly Woggly, Piggly Wiggly, Root-N-Scoot and
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> > B. Millions upon millions of homes can't all be wrong.
>>
>> What?
>>
>> Millions of homes in the USA have their HVAC unit in the attic?
>
>They sure do. Maybe that's because contrary to your
>notions, the USA is a country where a lot of people have
>big houses. And when you have a big, two story house,
>it's not unusual to have two HVAC units. One in the
>basement, one in the attic.
>
local Shop-N-Rob stores. Government and commercial buildings as well.
I'm talking air handlers and duct work. Condenser units on the roofs.
or on the ground outside.
>> I still say it's a crazy-ass place to put it.
>
>That's probably the best reason I've heard yet to
>put it in the attic.
Dave
Jun 8, 2012, 9:57:35 AM6/8/12
to
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%Lzyr.25143$Wm3....@news.usenetserver.com...
>I remember 10% is the standard number.
>
> Might be on the web some where.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> "Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vcednWOkPYo1Y1TS...@posted.internetamerica...
>
> Hey, thanks for the reply. So, how dilute should I make the solution.
> Would a 10 percent bleach solution be strong enouch to do the job, but
> weak
> enough not to damage the galvanized drip pan? I don't remember what I
> used
> before, I just remember warnings not to make it too strong.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Dave
>
Hey,thanks Chris. 10% sounds good. A couple days after my op, I got a bag
of Power Shock from a pool store, which is 73% calciumhypochlorite. Had no
idea of how much to use, but the entire 1# bag was supposed to treat 16500
gallons of water, which would return to normal Ph (sp?) after about 8 hours.
Figured that worked out to 27 mg/gallon, so I measured 1/10 of a gram into a
gallon jug and filled it half way with water (something like 1.7 % chlorine,
I *think*.) Smelled exactly like the air around a pool. Poured that into
the inlet I installed 10 years ago and let it drain. Finally decided this
morning to quit fooling around and mixed up a half-gallon of 7% stuff (1
gram in a half-gallon of warm water) and am about to add it to the drain pan
through the inlet I put in (don't know what else to call it.) Hopefully,
this will clean out the crud growing in the line, which I will determine by
whether or not I can close the 1/4 turn valve I also put in 10 years ago.
Maybe after this I will remember to flush it out every six months or so, and
avoid the whole problem further down the line. Maybe make it a New Year's
thing, and do it when the new calendars come out. If it works well, I won't
bother weighing the chemical in the future, and will just dump a level 1/4
tsp (which is about 1 gram) into the jug and add water before letting it set
for a bit to dissolve. Am only typing all this to let people know what I am
doing, in case it comes in handy for anyone else.
Don't *think* I got any of this backwards, but if anyone has questions don't
hesitate to ask. It might take me a day or two to answer though.
Take it easy...
Dave
Stormin Mormon
Jun 8, 2012, 10:04:44 AM6/8/12
to
Of course, you do realize that 10% means one part of clorox bleach out of
the jug, and 9 parts water? Sorry, I didn't give you reference points,
there.
I think the concoction you made was a wee bit too strong. Part of the
problem, is that pouring clorox into the evaporator pan makes the house
smell like a swimming pool. But, it does cut down on microbes.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cJSdnfakVdpKmU_S...@posted.internetamerica...
Hey,thanks Chris. 10% sounds good. A couple days after my op, I got a bag
of Power Shock from a pool store, which is 73% calcium hypochlorite. Had no
the jug, and 9 parts water? Sorry, I didn't give you reference points,
there.
I think the concoction you made was a wee bit too strong. Part of the
problem, is that pouring clorox into the evaporator pan makes the house
smell like a swimming pool. But, it does cut down on microbes.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Hey,thanks Chris. 10% sounds good. A couple days after my op, I got a bag
Dave
Jun 8, 2012, 11:47:55 AM6/8/12
to
news:YFnAr.25543$NC3....@news.usenetserver.com...
> I think the concoction you made was a wee bit too strong. Part of the
> problem, is that pouring clorox into the evaporator pan makes the house
> smell like a swimming pool. But, it does cut down on microbes.
>
I checked the hose output and found I was washing all kinds of stuff out,
and have been pouring plain water in several times since. Am still washing
all kinds of stuff out, including what looks like scale and grey paste.
Hate to think of what my evaporator pan must look like... Not happy.
Dave
> Of course, you do realize that 10% means one part of clorox bleach out of
> the jug, and 9 parts water? Sorry, I didn't give you reference points,
> there.
>
Yes, and standard Clorox is 5.25% sodium hypochlorite.
> the jug, and 9 parts water? Sorry, I didn't give you reference points,
> there.
>
> I think the concoction you made was a wee bit too strong. Part of the
> problem, is that pouring clorox into the evaporator pan makes the house
> smell like a swimming pool. But, it does cut down on microbes.
>
and have been pouring plain water in several times since. Am still washing
all kinds of stuff out, including what looks like scale and grey paste.
Hate to think of what my evaporator pan must look like... Not happy.
Dave
Fred McKenzie
Jun 8, 2012, 11:04:52 PM6/8/12
to
In article <AsedncRzTdc2g0_S...@posted.internetamerica>,
Dave-
My ten year old system suddenly started leaking all over the garage last
year. Due to its construction/installation, it is not practical to
access the evaporator pan.
I cut into the PVC drain and installed a coupling as close to the pan as
I could. I had a slender plastic tool lined with barbs intended for
removing hair from a sink drain, and fed it into the pan. There was no
sign of anything there, so I assumed the pipe was blocked further
downstream.
I now realize there is a trap under the house near where it exits to the
outside. That is probably where it was clogged. It is hard to tell if
it was clogged by an algae, or if a lizard had crawled in and died.
I took half of another PVC coupling and capped it with a plug. I
drilled and tapped the plug for 1/4" NPT pipe thread and installed a
quick disconnect coupling for an air hose. Connecting the coupling
where I had cut the PVC drain, I fed it with 100 PSI from a portable air
tank. That seems to have cleaned out the pipe. It has been draining
nicely ever since.
I agree that a ten percent bleach solution should prevent growth of the
algae, but I plan to just blow mine out once a year. If it should clog
up in less than a years time, then I'll look at using a bleach solution
after blowing it out.
Fred
My ten year old system suddenly started leaking all over the garage last
year. Due to its construction/installation, it is not practical to
access the evaporator pan.
I cut into the PVC drain and installed a coupling as close to the pan as
I could. I had a slender plastic tool lined with barbs intended for
removing hair from a sink drain, and fed it into the pan. There was no
sign of anything there, so I assumed the pipe was blocked further
downstream.
I now realize there is a trap under the house near where it exits to the
outside. That is probably where it was clogged. It is hard to tell if
it was clogged by an algae, or if a lizard had crawled in and died.
I took half of another PVC coupling and capped it with a plug. I
drilled and tapped the plug for 1/4" NPT pipe thread and installed a
quick disconnect coupling for an air hose. Connecting the coupling
where I had cut the PVC drain, I fed it with 100 PSI from a portable air
tank. That seems to have cleaned out the pipe. It has been draining
nicely ever since.
I agree that a ten percent bleach solution should prevent growth of the
algae, but I plan to just blow mine out once a year. If it should clog
up in less than a years time, then I'll look at using a bleach solution
after blowing it out.
Fred
paurick...@gmail.com
Aug 30, 2014, 9:53:55 AM8/30/14
to
Suck the drain pipe out with an aqua vac, and put a Gel-clear tablet in the pan, end of problem.
www.gel-clear.co.uk.
Your welcome!
www.gel-clear.co.uk.
Your welcome!
Oren
Aug 30, 2014, 5:01:09 PM8/30/14
to
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 06:53:55 -0700 (PDT), paurick...@gmail.com
wrote:
>Suck the drain pipe out with an aqua vac, and put a Gel-clear tablet in the pan, end of problem.
>wwwww.gel-clear.co.uk.
>
>Your welcome!
Americans already know how to clear the line. Heck, we saved you limey
louts in WW2.
Now you bastards want to spam.
wrote:
>Suck the drain pipe out with an aqua vac, and put a Gel-clear tablet in the pan, end of problem.
>
>Your welcome!
Americans already know how to clear the line. Heck, we saved you limey
louts in WW2.
Now you bastards want to spam.
Stormin Mormon
Aug 31, 2014, 7:44:51 AM8/31/14
to
what might the English recommend for that?
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
stone...@yahoo.com
Jan 28, 2015, 3:25:01 AM1/28/15
to
Dave and others.
I just had the AC guy here to do my aircon.
It was dripping water from underneath.
We went outside to the condensation drain line/pipe.
He had a suction hand pump [ i have seen them in america called mighty pump].
A couple of go's...and out came the blockage scum.
now working great. Have also seen people use wet/dry vac with a bit of cloth on the pipe to get suction for about 18 seconds on utube.
I just had the AC guy here to do my aircon.
It was dripping water from underneath.
We went outside to the condensation drain line/pipe.
He had a suction hand pump [ i have seen them in america called mighty pump].
A couple of go's...and out came the blockage scum.
now working great. Have also seen people use wet/dry vac with a bit of cloth on the pipe to get suction for about 18 seconds on utube.
Fred McKenzie
Jan 28, 2015, 6:12:12 PM1/28/15
to
In article <9ef1656f-790d-4f32...@googlegroups.com>,
If you search the web, you may find recommendations to occasionally add
bleach to the AC's condensation pan. This keeps the scum from growing.
Mine started leaking when it was around ten years old. I was able to
install a coupling in the plastic drain pipe near the AC unit, and a
compatible coupling connected to an air tank. Filling the tank to 100
PSI and then dumping it to the drain pipe, seems to clean out any
blockage. I do that about once a year to keep the line clear.
Fred
bleach to the AC's condensation pan. This keeps the scum from growing.
Mine started leaking when it was around ten years old. I was able to
install a coupling in the plastic drain pipe near the AC unit, and a
compatible coupling connected to an air tank. Filling the tank to 100
PSI and then dumping it to the drain pipe, seems to clean out any
blockage. I do that about once a year to keep the line clear.
Fred
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