Re: How do we know when 120V US socket strip can handle Europe 240V?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 18 May 2014 17:58:44 -0400, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca>
wrote:

>On Sun, 18 May 2014, Jessie Williams wrote:
>
>> Jessie Williams <JessieW...@is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
>>> a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?
>>
>> I don't think I made it clear, but I don't plan on bringing a
>> 'converter' (which is, I think, a step-down device).
>>
>> I'm hoping to just plug a "dumb" US power strip into European wall
>> outlets using only a "dumb" US-prong-to-Europe-pin plug adapter.
>>
>> The question is whether the dumb US power strip will handle the
>> 220 volts without melting or arcing.
>>
>Change your thinking.
>
>Figure out what you are taking, and instead of AC adapters, get cables for
>them. Since at this point most devices take 5V, you need cables with USB
>at one end, and whatever at the other end (be it the multipin connector
>for the iWhatever or a microUSB for that device or a microUSB for that
>other device.
>
>The cables will take up less space.
>
>Once in Europe, get cheap AC adapters that put out 5v into USB at
>appropriate amperage. If you don't need to charge them all, then you
>don't need an AC adapter for each. Just plug in as needed. You can get
>such adapters at the "Dollar stores" or European equivalent, though I'm
>not sure i'd take that much of a risk, but you can find them around. IN
>North America you can even get power bars wtih USB outlets for this sort
>of thing included, though I don't know what kind of current they put out;
>so theoretically you could just get a powerbar in Europe and use the USB
>ports for charging with your cables.
>
>My Blackberry Playbook Tablet AC adapter had gotten flakey (something
>wasn't always making contact, I assume a bad connector), so I just pulled
>out some scrap 5v 2amp AC adapter (that is a switching supply) and wired
>in a dual-USB connector off a scrap motherboard. So now I have a good USB
>charging station, just need cables between it and the various devices.
>
>If I was going to Europe, I might check and see if I had any AC adapters
>that worked on 240v, at which point I'd maybe add some more USB connectors
>and take that, already for use in Europe except the AC plug is wrong.
>
> Michael
The power bar works - and you KNOW your power adapters work. Buying
"cheap" adapters in europe you don't know what you have. (and you end
up with another pile of crap to store when you get home. The single
plug adapter is the lowest cost solution, and the least duplication
(which is why I have used it several times, and my daughter has used
it on her African sojurns - without any problems.

On the cruise ship I didn't even need the plug adapter as the plugs
were "universal" - took american flat blade as well as euro round pin
plugs - but all 240 volt only.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 18 May 2014 23:24:46 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<g...@mendelson.com> wrote:

>Jessie Williams wrote:
>> I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
>> Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
>> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit
>>
>> Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger, etc.),
>> I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and then plug
>> those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage & frequency into that
>> US power strip?
>
>I am in Israel and we get all sorts of tourists and immegrants, bringing
>all sorts of plugs, outlet strips and devices.
>
>The Israeli standard is 230 volts, 50 Hz single phase. EU standard is
>also, but there is enough variaition allowed that the UK 240v power grid
>and the continental 220v power grid is within the specified 230 volts.
>
>In my experience, the best thing to do is to what someone else already said,
>buy high quality plug adaptors and use them. If you need an outlet strip,
>buy one locally.
>
>You should have no trouble finding them, unless you arrive at 3am Sunday
>and all of the stores are closed. :-)
>
>Avoid the real cheap slide on 2 pin adaptors that are sold in travel
>stores, airports, etc. They have a bad habit of sliding off as you unplug
>the plug, leaving 230 volts exposed on the bare metal of your US plug.
>
>The good adaptors look like cubes and will accept many different plugs,
>including a US grounded plug. Unfortunately they do not always carry ground.
>They need a fair amount of force to remove a plug.
>
>Bring a roll of electrical tape, If you have to buy the slide on adaptors
>you can tape them on so they don't slide off. Crude, but a lot safer.
>
>Geoff.
The best arguement yet for buying ONE plug adapter and putting it on
the power bar. Get one that has the sideways plugs to accept numerous
wall warts side by side.

[Jessie Williams]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote:

> If you need an outlet strip, buy one locally.

But, a local outlet strip will just multiply the problem in
the wrong direction, won't it?

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 5/18/2014 4:53 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:

>
> But, I can't find any power strips at Home Depot or Lowes or Ace that
> "says" it can handle the 240 volts.
>

It can handle 240. It is just 120 on each side.

[Phil Allison]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca>

>>
>>If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
>>a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?
>
>

> I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run half as much
> current on 240,

** Huh ?

Same current, as that rating depends on cable and conductor thicknesses.



.... Phil

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

The only thing to really worry about is any over-voltage/lightning/surge protector built into the power strip. Remember, 120V AC is really 170 volts peak, double that for 240V AC. Then you have to find out what the surge protector guarantees. The surge protector rating also assumes a certain source impedance, relatively high compared to the impedance of the raw voltage that will be introduced by a direct connection to the power mains.

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

No because you won't have a 120 volt outlet strip with 240 volts on it.
It sounds ok until someone accidentaly plugs in a 120 only device without
looking.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

[Michael Black]

On Mon, 19 May 2014, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

> Jessie Williams wrote:
>> "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you need an outlet strip, buy one locally.
>>
>> But, a local outlet strip will just multiply the problem in
>> the wrong direction, won't it?
>>
> No because you won't have a 120 volt outlet strip with 240 volts on it.
> It sounds ok until someone accidentaly plugs in a 120 only device without
> looking.
>

You're right. But his point is that if he buys the powerbar in Europe,
then he has to get the pin adapters for each of the AC adapters he plugs
into it.

He wants to buy one set of pin adapters, for the powerbar, then the North
American power bar will take all his existing ac adapters, "solving the
problem". Since they are North American, he needs the powerbar to plug
them into, but since they are switching supplies and apparently are all
able to run on 240V, they will be fine in Europe.

Michael

[Wolfgang Allinger]

On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article N8OdnbJTgKwv_-TO...@giganews.com

Not likely in Europe, the hot is 220..240V to the neutral.
Not the american crap 2x 120V 180�!


Saludos (an alle Vern�nftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

--
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zuk�nftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit) iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

[sms]

On 5/18/2014 10:15 AM, Jessie Williams wrote:
> I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
> Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit
>
> Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger, etc.),
> I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and then plug
> those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage & frequency into that
> US power strip?
>

> It's easy to tell if a charger can handle the dual voltage because they
> print that stuff on every charger.
>
> But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked at
> in the box stores.

>
> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
> a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?

It will be much less current so it will work fine though if there's a
lighted switch it may not survive the higher voltage.

You could also just buy a universal power strip, i.e.
<http://www.dx.com/p/2500w-4-outlet-ac-electric-power-bar-strip-w-individual-switch-led-indicator-ac-250v-3m-cord-103853>
and put the proper plug on it.

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Michael Black wrote:
> You're right. But his point is that if he buys the powerbar in Europe,
> then he has to get the pin adapters for each of the AC adapters he plugs
> into it.

That's relatively easy. Any hardware store, electrical store, DIY store,
etc will have them for about $2-$3 each. Here in Israel, they were $5 each
until we switched from 3 rectangular pins to 2 or 3 round pins on all our
plugs and sockets. The same adaptors can be used for the old plugs to the
new sockets and everyone needed lots of them and they went down in price.

> He wants to buy one set of pin adapters, for the powerbar, then the North
> American power bar will take all his existing ac adapters, "solving the
> problem". Since they are North American, he needs the powerbar to plug
> them into, but since they are switching supplies and apparently are all
> able to run on 240V, they will be fine in Europe.

It will be fine until someone sees the outlet strip and thinks it is
120 volts and plugs in a 120 volt only device. I expect that a single
person, staying in single bed rooms will be ok, but anyone traveling
in a group, sharing their hotel room, or staying in a hostel is heading
for disaster.

[Fred]

On 05/19/2014 12:31 AM, Wolfgang Allinger wrote:
> Not likely in Europe, the hot is 220..240V to the neutral.
> Not the american crap 2x 120V 180�!

Yah, European 240 is single phase and one of the experts here says American 240 is 2-phase.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run
>> half as much current on 240,

> ** Huh ?

What he's trying to say is that when a device is switched to 240 volts, it
draws only half as much current as it does on 120V.

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwerck"

** It's more than mildly hysterical watching an autistic pedant pretend he
has a superior "theory of thought".

When the damn fool has none at all.





..... Phi

[dave]

For the same amount of power...

Why not just take a single USB powered hub?

[William Sommerwerck]

> It's more than mildly hysterical watching an autistic
> pedant pretend he has a superior "theory of thought".
> When the damn fool has none at all.

Good! You're finally learning to be self-critical.

[dpb]

On 5/18/2014 3:57 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:
...
>
> I'm trying to figure out how I know whether the power strip
> can handle the doubled voltage.

I've given you the link to the UL-listed solution.

The answer is that you _won't_ find an "ordinary" power strip w/ 125 VAC
US plugs that says it will handle 250V because the US plug of that
configuration is only UL-rated for 125V by US convention/code.

It is against NEC Code to use plugs for other than their rating; hence
manufacturers are _NOT_ going to market any device that doesn't conform
to NEMA/NEC/UL for the purpose. That means that any device w/ a 125 VAC
plug style in the US will be marked for 125V only. End of story.

<http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm#NEMA%20Configurations>

Now, we're back to the previous discussion -- is breakdown voltage in
practice greater than rated and does the device in question contain a
protective circuit that will "blow" when hit by the over-voltage and if
does, are you comfortable using it?

See other responses for my take on that one. I come back that if you're
not comfortable and not knowledgeable enough to be able to determine the
answers, use the approved route of the multiple-outlet adapter strip
showed previously or similar.

--

[Peter]

On 5/18/2014 1:15 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:
> I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
> Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit
>
> Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger,
> etc.), I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and
> then plug those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage &
> frequency into that US power strip?
>
> It's easy to tell if a charger can handle the dual voltage because
> they print that stuff on every charger.
>
> But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked
> at in the box stores.
>
> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know
> whether a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz
> European power?
>

Many overseas hotels have few if any outlets. My wife and I use two
different dual voltage custom battery chargers for our cameras and two
dual voltage chargers for our tablets. Therefore, I need 4 plug
adapters (and 4 available outlets) to charge all 4 devices at the same
time. I've started traveling with 1 plug adapter, 1 six foot 16 gauge
120v extension cord with an unpolarized plug at one end and an
unpolarized triple socket at the other end, along with an old fashioned
screw-in lamp socket adapter that has a 120V plug socket on each side
before terminating in another lamp socket. I'm prepared for whatever I
find in the hotel room. The current the 4 devices draw is so low that
I'm not worried about overloading the 120V adapters and extension cords
with 240V service and on 3 recent trips, I haven't had a bit of trouble
with arcing and not a trace of warmth anywhere along any of my 120V
attachments. Obviously this setup is not to be used with hair dryers,
travel irons, or other devices that consume more than a few watts.

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker is an ASD fucked Moron.

>
>>> I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run
>>> half as much current on 240,
>
>> ** Huh ?
>
> What he's trying to say is that when a device is switched to 240 volts, it
> draws only half as much current as it does on 120V.

** It's more than mildly hysterical watching an autistic pedant pretend he

has a superior "theory of thought".

When the trolling cunt has none at all.

Fuck off Bill, shut the fuck up and FUCK OFF !!




... Phil

[Jessie Williams]

dave <rick...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Why not just take a single USB powered hub?

That might be a good idea.

I'm assuming you mean one of those all-in-one things
with three or so 2.1 amp USB ports plus three or so
3-pronged outlet receptacles.

That might work, but a lot depends on the geometry
because non-USB chargers and cpap have to get plugged
into it.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 19 May 2014 12:18:29 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

No, to operate the same devices on 240 as on 120 it will only be
handling HALF the current. If the bar can handle the devices on 120,
it will have no problem, capacity-wize, on 240 because the current
will be MUCH lower.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 19 May 2014 02:54:45 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

<g...@mendelson.com> wrote:

>Jessie Williams wrote:
>> "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you need an outlet strip, buy one locally.
>>
>> But, a local outlet strip will just multiply the problem in
>> the wrong direction, won't it?
>>
>No because you won't have a 120 volt outlet strip with 240 volts on it.
>It sounds ok until someone accidentaly plugs in a 120 only device without
>looking.
>
>Geoff.

The "problem" that will be multiplied is the fact that none of the
american spec dual voltage adapters will fit the euro power bar -
meaning the OP needs to buy numerous plug adapters or new power
supplies. Think about what the poor guy is trying to do before
answering the question.......

He has a mumber of chargers/adapters with parallel blade (american 15
amp) plugs that are rated for 85-250 volts, 50 /60 hz and he wants to
use them on a trip to europe. What is the easiest, simplest, cheapest
way to do it???
Buy one adapter from the local (2 round pin) 240 volt connector to the
15 amp american blade style plug, to connect a 120 volt power bar to
the 240 volt sourse, and then plug all of his existing "universal"
devices into the power bar. MOST surge protected power bars clamp at
300, 400, or 500 volts. If it is a 300 volt clamping surge protector
the 340 volt peak to peak voltage could blow the MOV. If it is the
much more common 400 volt unit, there will be no problem, and of
course the 500 volt unit will also have no problem.
Units with more sophisticated filtering than MOVs may have a problem -
but virtually all regular, cheap, power bars only have 400 volt MOV
protection.

This has been done by hundreds and thousands of travellers for
decades, without serious consequences.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 18 May 2014 21:45:50 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

But a waste since he does not need to be able to plug any euro plug
devices into it, and he STILL needs the plug adapter because it comes
with the American style 15 amp parallel blade plug........

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It won't be HIS disaster. Anyone stupid enough to plug their stuff
into his power bar without asking deserves what he gets (it will only
kill the device, not the owner)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Any "expert" who says it is two phase is no expert.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 19 May 2014 06:02:09 -0700, dave <rick...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Because half of what he wants to run isn't 5 volt (usb)???
I have several 3 volt, 9 volt and 12 volt devices, not to mention 19 ,
24, and 31.

[TimR]

On Monday, May 19, 2014 10:01:50 AM UTC-4, Peter wrote:
>
> time. I've started traveling with 1 plug adapter, 1 six foot 16 gauge
>
> 120v extension cord with an unpolarized plug at one end and an
>
> unpolarized triple socket at the other end, along with an old fashioned
>
> screw-in lamp socket adapter that has a 120V plug socket on each side
>
> before terminating in another lamp socket. I'm prepared for whatever I

Has your screw-in lamp socket always worked? US lamp sockets are E26, European are E27. That's only a mm off, and I've had them work interchangeably, but I've also had them not work.

[sms]

On 5/19/2014 8:27 AM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> He has a mumber of chargers/adapters with parallel blade (american 15
> amp) plugs that are rated for 85-250 volts, 50 /60 hz and he wants to
> use them on a trip to europe. What is the easiest, simplest, cheapest
> way to do it???
> Buy one adapter from the local (2 round pin) 240 volt connector to the
> 15 amp american blade style plug, to connect a 120 volt power bar to
> the 240 volt sourse, and then plug all of his existing "universal"
> devices into the power bar. MOST surge protected power bars clamp at
> 300, 400, or 500 volts. If it is a 300 volt clamping surge protector
> the 340 volt peak to peak voltage could blow the MOV. If it is the
> much more common 400 volt unit, there will be no problem, and of
> course the 500 volt unit will also have no problem.
> Units with more sophisticated filtering than MOVs may have a problem -
> but virtually all regular, cheap, power bars only have 400 volt MOV
> protection.
>
> This has been done by hundreds and thousands of travellers for
> decades, without serious consequences.

Well stated.

The bottom line is that a 120V outlet strip will work fine at 240V. The
surge protectors won't blow at 240V. If there's a neon lamp pilot light
in the switch it _might_ blow because the series resistor is too low of
a value, but no harm will come from it blowing.

Personally, I like the universal power strips that will accept all plug
types such as <http://www.110220volts.com/PKT-8D.html>.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 19 May 2014 10:15:02 -0700 (PDT), TimR <timot...@aol.com>
wrote:

An e26 will always fit an e27 socket. An e27 can be a "tight fit" in
an e26 socket. In the "real world" I think we in North America often
end up with e27 sockets regardless.

[William Sommerwerck]

"sms" wrote in message news:lldnvn$jnf$1...@dont-email.me...

> The bottom line is that a 120V outlet strip will work fine at 240V.
> The surge protectors won't blow at 240V.

Are you certain? The peak voltage of a 240V line is 340V. If the surge
protectors are 300V...

[sms]

That's possible if they cheaped out on the surge suppressors. Most power
strips use MOVs that won't clamp until 340V.

I guess it's a better idea to buy a power strip rated at 240V since
you'll have more margin. Or buy a 120V power strip with no surge
suppressors.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 19 May 2014 16:36:45 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

There are 3 types of MOVs used in most power strips (and other surge
protectors) - 300 volt, 400 volt and 500 volt The 400 volt are by far
the most common. The 300 gives better protection on 120 volt circuits,
but the 400 is most common and adequate on 240 as well. Particularly
in the cheap Chinese stuff it means they can use the same devices
world wide.

[Phil Allison]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca>
> "Phil Allison" :

>><cl...@snyder.on.ca>
>>
>>>>
>>>>If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
>>>>a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?
>>>
>>>
>>> I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run half as much
>>> current on 240,
>>
>>** Huh ?
>>
>>Same current, as that rating depends on cable and conductor thicknesses.
>>
>>

> No,


** What I wrote is correct.

The strip will *handle" the same current so the power capacity will double.

> to operate the same devices on 240 as on 120 it will only be
> handling HALF the current.

** Really - the *same* devices ??

> If the bar can handle the devices on 120,
> it will have no problem, capacity-wize, on 240 because the current
> will be MUCH lower.

** Only be true for wide range SMPS ( ie 90V to 260V) and those devices that
can be switched to 240V.



.... Phil

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 20 May 2014 11:30:05 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>

Did you read the thread????
The OP is using switch mode auto-switching or universal power
supplies. The "same device" IS being used, and it WILL drew half the
current on 240.

So my statement is 100% correct, and I'll stand behind it.

[Phil Allison]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca>

>>
>>>>> I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run half as much
>>>>> current on 240,
>>>>
>>>>** Huh ?
>>>>
>>>>Same current, as that rating depends on cable and conductor thicknesses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> No,
>>
>>
>>** What I wrote is correct.
>>
>> The strip will *handle" the same current so the power capacity will
>> double.
>>
>>
>>> to operate the same devices on 240 as on 120 it will only be
>>> handling HALF the current.
>>
>>** Really - the *same* devices ??
>>
>>> If the bar can handle the devices on 120,
>>> it will have no problem, capacity-wize, on 240 because the current
>>> will be MUCH lower.
>>
>>** Only be true for wide range SMPS ( ie 90V to 260V) and those devices
>>that
>>can be switched to 240V.
>>
>>

> Did you read the thread????

** Your words are the subject here.

> So my statement is 100% correct,

** It is wrongly worded and misleading, for anyone except maybe a Canadian.




.... Phil

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 20 May 2014 13:30:33 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>

Dumb yank takes everything out of context.
Smart Yanks and Canuks know what is being said

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> No, to operate the same devices on 240 as on 120 it will only be
> handling HALF the current. If the bar can handle the devices on 120,
> it will have no problem, capacity-wize, on 240 because the current
> will be MUCH lower.

Not always true. With a linear supply it would be true, as the different
transformer windings would both convervt the voltage down to the same
low voltage.

Switching supplies are not all the same, and some just convert the incoming
power to 400Hz (or higher) AC,run it through a transformer and reduce it
to the outgoing voltage with a regulator. If the device is plugged into
a 120 volt socket, the output voltage of the transformer is 15 volts,
if it is plugged into a 240 volt socket, it would be 30 volts.

The internal regulator would even it out.

Current draw would be the same.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

[William Sommerwerck]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:btvpg3...@mid.individual.net...

> to operate the same devices on 240 as on 120 it will only be
> handling HALF the current.

** Really - the *same* devices ??

> If the bar can handle the devices on 120,
> it will have no problem, capacity-wize, on 240 because
> the current will be MUCH lower.

** Only be true for wide range SMPS ( ie 90V to 260V) and those
devices that can be switched to 240V.

Yes, Phil. We know that, Phil. That's what we were talking about, Phil. [Pats
Phil's pate patronizingly.]

For someone named Phil, you certainly show little love for other people.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
news:slrnlnls3...@cable.mendelson.com...

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> No, to operate the same devices on 240 as on 120 it will only be
> handling HALF the current. If the bar can handle the devices on 120,
> it will have no problem, capacity-wize, on 240 because the current
> will be MUCH lower.

Not always true. With a linear supply it would be true, as the different

transformer windings would both convert the voltage down to the same

low voltage.

Switching supplies are not all the same, and some just convert the incoming

power to 400Hz (or higher) AC, run it through a transformer and reduce it

to the outgoing voltage with a regulator. If the device is plugged into
a 120 volt socket, the output voltage of the transformer is 15 volts,
if it is plugged into a 240 volt socket, it would be 30 volts.

The internal regulator would even it out. Current draw would be the same.

I don't think that's correct. To (possibly over-) simplify things, at higher
line voltages, the pulse width will be narrower, and less charge will be drawn
from the filter caps. Ergo, less current will be pulled from the line.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Reguardless - they will never draw MORE current from 240 than they
would on 120 - so current capacity is never going to be an issue - and
MOST will draw less current on 240. One of the advantages of switch
mode power supplies is higher efficiency.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Don't confuse Phil with facts - his mind, such as it is, is already
made up.

[TimR]

I asked out of experience. I have an E27 fixture, a German pole lamp, that will not work with some brands of E26 CFL. They don't seem to make enough contact. Other brands do work. These same CFLs start fine in an American pole lamp.

[Peter]

Didn't know that and thanks for the info. Although I carry the lamp
socket adapter when I travel to Europe, I've only used it in U.S.
bargain motels that sometimes provide few if any convenient sockets.
However, if I need to use it in Europe and it doesn't screw into the
lamp socket, I'll know why. I have used the single plug adapter -
extension cord connection many times in Europe with no problem at all
for camera battery chargers, tablet chargers and dual voltage electric
razors (the latter when the hotel room's razor outlet was non-functional).

[Brian Gregory]

On 18/05/2014 21:51, Jessie Williams wrote:
> Yes. That's exactly what I am asking about.
> The question is how I can be sure the US power strip can handle 240 volts.

Open it up and check there is nothing that might not like 240V in it.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

[Brian Gregory]

On 20/05/2014 07:09, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> Switching supplies are not all the same, and some just convert the incoming
> power to 400Hz (or higher) AC,run it through a transformer and reduce it
> to the outgoing voltage with a regulator. If the device is plugged into
> a 120 volt socket, the output voltage of the transformer is 15 volts,
> if it is plugged into a 240 volt socket, it would be 30 volts.

That would be really dumb.
The power supply would run really hot on 240V and nice and cool on 120V.

In fact the converter you describe that generates the higher frequency
AC will be adjusting itself so that the transformer output is more or
less the same voltage no matter what the incoming mains voltage is.

[Phil Allison]

"Brian Gregory"

>> Yes. That's exactly what I am asking about.
>> The question is how I can be sure the US power strip can handle 240
>> volts.
>
> Open it up and check there is nothing that might not like 240V in it.
>

** The OP simply has to make sure any varistors are rated at 275VAC,
suppression caps have the same voltage rating and are marked class X1 or
2 - oh, and neon lights must have series resistors of 180 kohms or higher.

Varistors must only be wired from active to neutral, never to ground.

If in doubt, just remove the lot with side cutters.

Dead simple.



.... Phil

[mike]

What's dead simple is that you should NEVER used stuff rated for a max
of 120v
on higher than 120V...PERIOD.
Emphasis on the DEAD.
Whether it works is irrelevant.
It's ill-advised, dangerous, prone to fire, illegal,
probably voids your insurance...and then, there's that dead part.

It's not a self-regulated process that rids the world of idiots.
When you burn the place down, your reckless incompetence seriously
affects others.
Get properly rated equipment...PERIOD!!

Take it from someone who was completely burned out by the idiot
in the adjacent apartment.

[sms]

On 5/22/2014 6:13 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

All true, but that's a lot of work to avoid buying a 240V power strip. A
lot of the lower cost strips can't be easily opened either.

I like this one <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TXRTNG> which gives you
three U.S. outlets and 2 USB ports that provide a total of 1.5A. Enough
current to charge a tablet and a phone though not enough to be using the
device at the same time as it's being charged. Very compact. Still need
a plug adapter though.

[sms]

On 5/22/2014 3:24 PM, mike wrote:

<snip>

> What's dead simple is that you should NEVER used stuff rated for a max
> of 120v
> on higher than 120V...PERIOD.
> Emphasis on the DEAD.
> Whether it works is irrelevant.
> It's ill-advised, dangerous, prone to fire, illegal,

It's actually none of those.

> probably voids your insurance...and then, there's that dead part.
>
> It's not a self-regulated process that rids the world of idiots.
> When you burn the place down, your reckless incompetence seriously
> affects others.
> Get properly rated equipment...PERIOD!!

A "properly rated" 240V power strip would have thinner conductors. It
would be no more dangerous because it would also have a lower amperage
circuit breaker.

> Take it from someone who was completely burned out by the idiot
> in the adjacent apartment.

Whatever caused the fire it was certainly not someone using a 120V power
strip on 240V.

As many others have pointed out, the power strip is actually safer on
240V because the current is much lower for the same wattage.

However the downside is that it would be possible to overload the 240V
circuit, which is probably not a 15A circuit, and the circuit breaker in
the power strip would not blow (but the circuit breaker in the breaker
panel would trip).

[mike]

On 5/22/2014 4:23 PM, sms wrote:
> On 5/22/2014 3:24 PM, mike wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> What's dead simple is that you should NEVER used stuff rated for a max
>> of 120v
>> on higher than 120V...PERIOD.
>> Emphasis on the DEAD.
>> Whether it works is irrelevant.
>> It's ill-advised, dangerous, prone to fire, illegal,
>
> It's actually none of those.
>
>> probably voids your insurance...and then, there's that dead part.
>>
>> It's not a self-regulated process that rids the world of idiots.
>> When you burn the place down, your reckless incompetence seriously
>> affects others.
>> Get properly rated equipment...PERIOD!!
>
> A "properly rated" 240V power strip would have thinner conductors. It
> would be no more dangerous because it would also have a lower amperage
> circuit breaker.
>
>> Take it from someone who was completely burned out by the idiot
>> in the adjacent apartment.
>
> Whatever caused the fire it was certainly not someone using a 120V power
> strip on 240V.

Must be nice to know everything for CERTAIN.

>
> As many others have pointed out, the power strip is actually safer on
> 240V because the current is much lower for the same wattage.
>
> However the downside is that it would be possible to overload the 240V
> circuit, which is probably not a 15A circuit, and the circuit breaker in
> the power strip would not blow (but the circuit breaker in the breaker
> panel would trip).

It's people like you, making grand declarations based on PART of the
problem that cause so much grief in the world.
There are many people who will actually believe that you told them
it was safe.
The other issue is that the internet is forever. Years from now,
some newbie does a google search and sees your missive out of context.

What is it about doubling the voltage on a system and routing it to
sockets that invite you to plug in devices rated at half the voltage
do you think is a good idea?

Think back about all the screwups in your past.
The things you thought about and carefully analyzed are usually NOT
the things that caused you grief.
It's the things you didn't consider that cause most of the problem.
Must be nice to be all-knowing.

Sorry about the tone. I get upset when people advise stupid things
that might result in harm to others.

[Phil Allison]

"mike"

> Phil Allison wrote:
>> "Brian Gregory"
>>
>>>> Yes. That's exactly what I am asking about.
>>>> The question is how I can be sure the US power strip can handle 240
>>>> volts.
>>>
>>> Open it up and check there is nothing that might not like 240V in it.
>>>
>>
>> ** The OP simply has to make sure any varistors are rated at 275VAC,
>> suppression caps have the same voltage rating and are marked class X1 or
>> 2 - oh, and neon lights must have series resistors of 180 kohms or
>> higher.
>>
>> Varistors must only be wired from active to neutral, never to ground.
>>
>> If in doubt, just remove the lot with side cutters.
>>
>> Dead simple.
>>
>>
>

> What's dead simple is that you should NEVER used stuff rated for a max of
> 120v on higher than 120V...PERIOD.

** My post was basically facetious - pointing out that one has to be expert
in identifying components like varistors and X1 caps in order to " .. check

there is nothing that might not like 240V in it ".

> Emphasis on the DEAD.
> Whether it works is irrelevant.
> It's ill-advised, dangerous, prone to fire, illegal,
> probably voids your insurance...and then, there's that dead part.

** Well, all the parts I mentioned would fail quickly if not rated for 240V
operation.

There might be a loud bang, but definitely no fire hazard.

> Take it from someone who was completely burned out by the idiot
> in the adjacent apartment.

** That must have been very distressing.



.... Phil

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 22 May 2014 16:15:01 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

And exactly where does it state it is useable for 240 volts? The USB
port power supply may very well NOT be rated for 240, to start with.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Every electrical plug on board Carnival's ships (and a lot more)
will accept both 240 euro (round pin), Japanese 240 (parallel blade)
and American 120 volt parallel blade plugs.. They are labeled 240
volts only.

So do the same with the power bar.
It is NOT a safety issue unless it becomes a stupidity issue.

[mike]

Virtually EVERY safety regulation is about preventing stupid people
from doing stupid things that might hurt themselves or others.

If you need something done right, look no further than Carnival Cruise
ships.

Next time you get pulled over for speeding, explain to the cop
that the other guy was speeding too. See how far that gets you.

Just because someone else does it, doesn't make it a wise thing to
do.

The attitude expressed here is common. I've had to beat
it out of virtually every engineer I've trained.

[Michael A. Terrell]

mike wrote:
>
> The attitude expressed here is common. I've had to beat
> it out of virtually every engineer I've trained.

How hard is it to teach someone to push a broom?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[Michael A. Terrell]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
> Dumb yank takes everything out of context.
> Smart Yanks and Canuks know what is being said

Phil is in Oz.

[Jessie Williams]

I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit

Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger, etc.),
I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and then plug
those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage & frequency into that
US power strip?

It's easy to tell if a charger can handle the dual voltage because they
print that stuff on every charger.

But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked at
in the box stores.

[dpb]

On 5/18/2014 12:15 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:
...

> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
> a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?

You buy one for the purpose...

<https://www.voltage-converter-transformers.com/sm-60-3-universal-

outlet-power-strip-with-surge-protection-for-110v-250v-worldwide-

use.html?gclid=CIqhiov-tb4CFXRo7Aod8i0AOg>

Just the first that popped up; there's bound to be a zillion other
choices as well...

But a standard 110V strip will _not_ work, it'll have 110V
overprotection and you'll blow it w/ a bang! when you plug it in a 240V
outlet. (Don't ask me how I was reminded of this when in random moment
of not thinking... :) Most embarrassing as was in work room in UK power
plant on a job needing to finish up a report before catching plane back
to the States and just as I did the deed a group of the plant personnel
came in on their break)

--

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 18 May 2014 12:26:10 -0500, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

>On 5/18/2014 12:15 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:
>...
>
>> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
>> a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?
>
>You buy one for the purpose...
>
><https://www.voltage-converter-transformers.com/sm-60-3-universal-
>
>outlet-power-strip-with-surge-protection-for-110v-250v-worldwide-
>
>use.html?gclid=CIqhiov-tb4CFXRo7Aod8i0AOg>
>
>Just the first that popped up; there's bound to be a zillion other
>choices as well...
>
>But a standard 110V strip will _not_ work, it'll have 110V
>overprotection and you'll blow it w/ a bang! when you plug it in a 240V
>outlet.

He is not planning to do that. He is using an adapter into the 240,
then plugging the power strip into that so it only sees 120V.
If you get a plain vanilla strip, it is merely a collection of copper
wire and strips that hold plugs. It will work on your 6 volt car
battery in the '59 VW and usually up to about 600V in other
situations. Since most are 14 ga. wire they can handle 15 amps.

Just looking at the adapter I use in Europe, it is rated at 50 watts.
That is the controlling factor. They are also available with USP
ports too. Most are not made for hair dryers, but they may be
available.

Beside, the regular US type plug will not fit into European
receptacles.

[Pete C.]

Since *every* device I have need to travel with is 120/240V
auto-ranging, I have no use for voltage converters or step down
transformers. What I did was get one plug adapter so a US 5-15 plug can
plug into a UK receptacle, and one US non-surge suppresser power strip.
I tested the power strip on 240V in the US to ensure it had adequate
insulation and whatnot. In the UK I simply plugged my power strip into
240V power with the plug adapter and then plugged my various devices
into the power strip. This of course presumes you know enough to ensure
all your devices are auto-ranging.

[dpb]

On 5/18/2014 1:35 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
...

> He is not planning to do that. He is using an adapter into the 240,
> then plugging the power strip into that so it only sees 120V.

...

Then what was the point of the following question?

> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
> a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?

If it's a transformer to 120V, there's no 240V in sight. If the
question is only on the frequency difference, other than synchronous
devices like a clock or old turntable, it makes no difference at all.

--

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run half as much
current on 240, so no problem there, and the insulation is generally
good for 600 volts on virtually all wiring used on 120 volt circuits.
To be safe, use a bar with no pilot light and no surge protector. No
switch removes another possible (but unlikely) problem.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 18 May 2014 12:26:10 -0500, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

Mabee I'm just plain lucky - but I had no problem with a cheap surge
protected power bar. (made in china) - but I would recommens a
non-surgeprotected bar with no pilot light.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 18 May 2014 14:35:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 May 2014 12:26:10 -0500, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
>
>>On 5/18/2014 12:15 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:
>>...
>>
>>> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
>>> a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?
>>
>>You buy one for the purpose...
>>
>><https://www.voltage-converter-transformers.com/sm-60-3-universal-
>>
>>outlet-power-strip-with-surge-protection-for-110v-250v-worldwide-
>>
>>use.html?gclid=CIqhiov-tb4CFXRo7Aod8i0AOg>
>>
>>Just the first that popped up; there's bound to be a zillion other
>>choices as well...
>>
>>But a standard 110V strip will _not_ work, it'll have 110V
>>overprotection and you'll blow it w/ a bang! when you plug it in a 240V
>>outlet.
>
>He is not planning to do that. He is using an adapter into the 240,
>then plugging the power strip into that so it only sees 120V.
>If you get a plain vanilla strip, it is merely a collection of copper
>wire and strips that hold plugs. It will work on your 6 volt car
>battery in the '59 VW and usually up to about 600V in other
>situations. Since most are 14 ga. wire they can handle 15 amps.

That's not what I read. He's going to use a "plug adapter" to plug
the bar into 240 and run the universal or dual voltage power adapters
and chargers in it - running on 240.

>
>Just looking at the adapter I use in Europe, it is rated at 50 watts.
>That is the controlling factor. They are also available with USP
>ports too. Most are not made for hair dryers, but they may be
>available.
>
>Beside, the regular US type plug will not fit into European
>receptacles.

Which is where the "plug adapter" comes in. Used all the time - and in
Japan they use the same plugs we use for 120 on 240 (innlarge parts of
the country - (they have at least 3 different standards)

[Jessie Williams]

Jessie Williams <JessieW...@is.invalid> wrote:

> If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
> a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?

I don't think I made it clear, but I don't plan on bringing a
'converter' (which is, I think, a step-down device).

I'm hoping to just plug a "dumb" US power strip into European wall
outlets using only a "dumb" US-prong-to-Europe-pin plug adapter.

The question is whether the dumb US power strip will handle the
220 volts without melting or arcing.

[Jessie Williams]

"Pete C." <auxRe...@wpnet.us> wrote:

> I have no use for voltage converters or step down transformers.

I don't plan on bringing any of those step-down transformers
because all my US equipment will be what you call 'auto ranging'.

> What I did was get one plug adapter so a US 5-15 plug can plug
> into a UK receptacle

Yes. That's what I plan on getting. One "dumb" mechanical
prong converter so that the US prongs can plug into a European
wall outlet, mechanically.

> and one US non-surge suppresser power strip.

Interesting that it is a non surge suppressor power strip.
Is this new-to-me detail important when I'm doubling the
expected voltage that the power strip is connecting to?

> I tested the power strip on 240V in the US to ensure it had adequate
> insulation and whatnot.

That's a good idea!
I don't have the right mechanical converter to plug a US power
strip into a US 240V outlet, but I might be able to alligator clip
it all together.

> In the UK I simply plugged my power strip into
> 240V power with the plug adapter and then plugged my various devices
> into the power strip. This of course presumes you know enough to ensure
> all your devices are auto-ranging.

[Jessie Williams]

dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

> If it's a transformer to 120V, there's no 240V in sight. If the
> question is only on the frequency difference, other than synchronous
> devices like a clock or old turntable, it makes no difference at all.

I should have been clearer. I apologize for causing confusion.

It's my fault for not being clear that the US power strip will "see"
the full 240 volts of the European wall outlet.

The only thing between the US power strip and the 240 volt wall outlet
will be a dumb mechanical prong adapter, which itself I would assume
can handle the voltage because they are sold for exactly that purpose.

But, I can't find any power strips at Home Depot or Lowes or Ace that
"says" it can handle the 240 volts.

[Jessie Williams]

whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> England, Switzerland,and Germany have three different
> plug designs; there isn't a single 'Europe' adapter.

Actually, the question is the same with respect to the voltage
that the power strip has to handle no matter what European
country I use, although I agree, the actual dumb mechanical
prong adapter may be different.

However, the two countries I plan on going to are Germany &
Italy, where, I think, the standard two-pin adapter will be
the same (for low current items such as my cellphone charger,
my camera charger, my cpap machine, etc.).

The question is that the US power strip will be "seeing"
twice the voltage it says it's supposed to be used on.

All my "devices" say they can handle both the 110v/60Hz and
the 240v/50Hz power, so I'm not worried about the devices.

I'm trying to figure out how I know whether the power strip
can handle the doubled voltage.

[Liam O'Connor]

On Sun, 18 May 2014 15:30:32 -0400, clare wrote:

> I have done it numerous times.

Good to know!

> The bar will only run half as much current on 240,
> so no problem there

Interesting. That makes sense (I=V/R where R is constant).

So, from a heat standpoint, you're saying the wires should handle
it even though the power strip doesn't explicitly say so.

> and the insulation is generally good for 600 volts on virtually
> all wiring used on 120 volt circuits.

This is good to know since the arcing across conductors will
be easier when I double the voltage from 110 to 220.

> To be safe, use a bar with no pilot light and no surge protector.

That makes sense since those might run on 120v and they might
fry at double that. Right?

> No switch removes another possible (but unlikely) problem.

All the ones I saw had a switch, but, I see the advantage of
eliminating the switch as a possible failure point when the
voltage doubles.

[dpb]

On 5/18/2014 3:51 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:
...

> The question is how I can be sure the US power strip can handle 240 volts.

The "be sure" answer is what I posted link to -- it has protection for
240V built in.

The other way is if there's a reset button or a it says anything at all
about protection on the wrapping, it won't--it'll do what I described
earlier.

The standard US plugs are UL-listed for 125V but they'll stand 240V
breakdown voltage and the cord is likely rated 600V as that's a common
insulation spec. If look carefully you'll be able to read it on the
cord itself for confirmation.

I'm comfortable as the other poster says; otoh, if you're not certain
and uncomfortable, for $20 or so the link leads you to a rated/listed
solution.

--

[Wolfgang Allinger]

On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article llapsf$ncj$5...@solani.org

<JessieW...@is.invalid> (Jessie Williams) wrote:

>But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked at
>in the box stores.

That might be a problem.

>If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know
>whether a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European
>power?

I think (unprooved!) that the double voltage at/in your strip will work
but:

1st You never know, maybe after some hours something may burn in the
strip.

2nd Don`t use a strip with pilot light. The light likely explodes and/or
burns. You should see/smell some magic smoke :]

3rd Don`t use a strip with switch. Likely the US switches are specified
for 110/127V. With german 230V you may run in trouble. Badly after some
hours of working aparently well. The firefighters/police will find the
reason! :[

YMMV



Saludos (an alle Vern�nftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

--
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zuk�nftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit) iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

[Wolfgang Allinger]

On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article Cu5xa...@allinger-307049.user.uni-berlin
<all...@spambog.com> (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:

Ingrid says, look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country


There you will find voltage, frequency and plug of the IEC world

So Italy and Germany are likely equal. A plug Type C (CCC 7/16 Europlug)
will work in these countries and likely in whole continental Europe.

The british people/power is strange :]

However these C plugs are not polarized and have no earth. So you may
run in trouble with earthed devices from USA, maybe power to the housing
:(

It`s better to use only special isolated devices. They show a double
lined quadratical box.


There is also something written about safety!

[Michael Black]

Change your thinking.

Figure out what you are taking, and instead of AC adapters, get cables for
them. Since at this point most devices take 5V, you need cables with USB
at one end, and whatever at the other end (be it the multipin connector
for the iWhatever or a microUSB for that device or a microUSB for that
other device.

The cables will take up less space.

Once in Europe, get cheap AC adapters that put out 5v into USB at
appropriate amperage. If you don't need to charge them all, then you
don't need an AC adapter for each. Just plug in as needed. You can get
such adapters at the "Dollar stores" or European equivalent, though I'm
not sure i'd take that much of a risk, but you can find them around. IN
North America you can even get power bars wtih USB outlets for this sort
of thing included, though I don't know what kind of current they put out;
so theoretically you could just get a powerbar in Europe and use the USB
ports for charging with your cables.

My Blackberry Playbook Tablet AC adapter had gotten flakey (something
wasn't always making contact, I assume a bad connector), so I just pulled
out some scrap 5v 2amp AC adapter (that is a switching supply) and wired
in a dual-USB connector off a scrap motherboard. So now I have a good USB
charging station, just need cables between it and the various devices.

If I was going to Europe, I might check and see if I had any AC adapters
that worked on 240v, at which point I'd maybe add some more USB connectors
and take that, already for use in Europe except the AC plug is wrong.

Michael

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On 18 May 2014 17:27:00 -0400, all...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger)
wrote:

>
> On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article llapsf$ncj$5...@solani.org
> <JessieW...@is.invalid> (Jessie Williams) wrote:
>
>>But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked at
>>in the box stores.
>
>That might be a problem.
>
>>If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know
>>whether a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European
>>power?
>
>I think (unprooved!) that the double voltage at/in your strip will work
>but:
>
>1st You never know, maybe after some hours something may burn in the
>strip.
>
>2nd Don`t use a strip with pilot light. The light likely explodes and/or
>burns. You should see/smell some magic smoke :]

Generally no smoke at all - just a little flash as the light puts a
lefetime of lumens into half a second of output.

>
>3rd Don`t use a strip with switch. Likely the US switches are specified
>for 110/127V. With german 230V you may run in trouble. Badly after some
>hours of working aparently well. The firefighters/police will find the
>reason! :[
>

Again, VERY unlikely to be a problem - and if it is, it won't be smoke
and fire - irt will be arking when opening or closing the switch.

MOST ac rated switches (every one I have in my small collection) are
"straight line" rated.
Double the voltage, half the current, to the insulation limit (which
is usually 600 volts) An example is a "microswitch" is rated at .3 amp
125 volts and .15 amps at 250 volts AC

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jessie Williams wrote:
> I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
> Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit
>
> Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger, etc.),
> I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and then plug
> those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage & frequency into that
> US power strip?

I am in Israel and we get all sorts of tourists and immegrants, bringing
all sorts of plugs, outlet strips and devices.

The Israeli standard is 230 volts, 50 Hz single phase. EU standard is
also, but there is enough variaition allowed that the UK 240v power grid
and the continental 220v power grid is within the specified 230 volts.

In my experience, the best thing to do is to what someone else already said,
buy high quality plug adaptors and use them. If you need an outlet strip,
buy one locally.

You should have no trouble finding them, unless you arrive at 3am Sunday
and all of the stores are closed. :-)

Avoid the real cheap slide on 2 pin adaptors that are sold in travel
stores, airports, etc. They have a bad habit of sliding off as you unplug
the plug, leaving 230 volts exposed on the bare metal of your US plug.

The good adaptors look like cubes and will accept many different plugs,
including a US grounded plug. Unfortunately they do not always carry ground.
They need a fair amount of force to remove a plug.

Bring a roll of electrical tape, If you have to buy the slide on adaptors
you can tape them on so they don't slide off. Crude, but a lot safer.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On 18 May 2014 17:48:00 -0400, all...@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger)
wrote:

>

> On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article Cu5xa...@allinger-307049.user.uni-berlin
> <all...@spambog.com> (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:
>
>Ingrid says, look at:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country
>
>
>There you will find voltage, frequency and plug of the IEC world
>
>So Italy and Germany are likely equal. A plug Type C (CCC 7/16 Europlug)
>will work in these countries and likely in whole continental Europe.
>
>The british people/power is strange :]
>
>However these C plugs are not polarized and have no earth. So you may
>run in trouble with earthed devices from USA, maybe power to the housing
>:(
>
>It`s better to use only special isolated devices. They show a double
>lined quadratical box.
>
>
>There is also something written about safety!
>
>
>Saludos (an alle Vern�nftigen, Rest sh. sig)
>Wolfgang

All of the devices the OP intends to use are "double insulated" and
do not have exposed metal parts. (wall warts)