Need to buy a transmission jack for a Tacoma clutch - HF has a sale - advice?

[harry newton]

I need to buy a transmission jack for a Tacoma clutch.
How heavy is a W59 Toyota Tacoma transmission anyway?

I this 800# jack (on sale until the end of the month) good enough?
<https://www.harborfreight.com/800-lb-low-lift-transmission-jack-69685.html>

Does the 33% cheaper scissor-jack have any merit over the pan type above?
<https://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-low-lift-transmission-jack-61232.html>

I'm going to replace the clutch, but I have never done a clutch before.
I'm familiar with most repairs though, and I have all the required tools.

I will work out of my garage, where I will put the vehicle on four 6-ton
jack stands (the garage floor is reasonably level) as high as I can get it.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-jack-stand-set-38847.html>

I am just asking for advice comparing the two types of transmission jacks.

[Space Cadet]

I

My personal favorite would be the hydraulic one. It looks like that would be great to use. Back in the early 70's I replaced a lot of clutch plates in Toyotas without using a jack. Transmissions are probably a lot heavier now, not just because I'm old. Replacing a clutch plate back then required an allignment tool that I was able to borrow from the local Toyota dealer, but I knew most of the mechanics. I don't know if you still need one.

Working on a transmission with either one would be great, but have you checked with a parts store to see if they have one you can use, or rent? How often do you plan to use it?

[harry newton]

He who is Space Cadet said on Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:41:29 -0500:

> My personal favorite would be the hydraulic one.
> It looks like that would be great to use.

I like that one too, but I had never seen the scissor type so that's why I
asked.

> Back in the early 70's I replaced a lot of clutch plates in Toyotas
> without using a jack. Transmissions are probably a lot heavier now,
> not just because I'm old.

I think the problem is the last half inch when putting it back ... you need
the transmission dead on or you'll break something expensive.

> Replacing a clutch plate back then required
> an allignment tool that I was able to borrow from the local Toyota
> dealer, but I knew most of the mechanics. I don't know if you
> still need one.

I've watched videos. They use an old cutoff transmission shaft to align
things, so I'll need to buy that tool too.

> Working on a transmission with either one would be great,
> but have you checked with a parts store to see if they have
> one you can use, or rent? How often do you plan to use it?

I called all the local parts stores and rental shops.
Nobody rents it. All the parts stores sell them though.
But the HF ones above are on sale until the end of the month.
So that's why I ask for the advice.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Definitely more than adequate. Not pro quality, but all of the
required features.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:41:29 -0500, "Space Cadet" <s...@spacepatrol.com>
wrote:

The cheap one does not have the tilt features> The hydraulic one is
MUCH better for the job

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Get their "universal clutch alignment tool" kit while you are at it

[Kevin Bottorff]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote in
news:fiq7vcdqfepdc71pl...@4ax.com:

for a one time deal either one will do the job. KB

[harry newton]

He who is cl...@snyder.on.ca said on Fri, 27 Oct 2017 22:24:56 -0400:

>>I am just asking for advice comparing the two types of transmission jacks.
> Definitely more than adequate. Not pro quality, but all of the
> required features

Thanks. I'll pick up the hydraulic jack for $160 before the end of the
month sale goes off. It's cheap compared to the job itself.

I'm debating whether I should rebuild or replace the master cylinder and
slave clutch release cylinder.

Toyota prices are the following but I have no experience with rebuilding or
replacing them.

Master cylinder repair kit $30
Master cylinder $117
Slave cylinder repair kit $13
Slave cylinder $50

At those prices, which would you go for (rebuild or the whole thing)?

Here are the hydraulic parts:
<https://partsfactory.camelbacktoyota.com/auto-parts/1997/toyota/4runner/base-trim/2-7l-l4-gas-engine/clutch-cat/hydraulic-system-scat>

[Paul in Houston TX]

IMO, get the hydraulic trans jack. You will find it a lot easier to
adjust the height every few minutes while putting the trans back in.
The screw one does not appear to have angle adjustments.
You will need that. It is critical.
The trans weight will be around 115 lbs. More with the front drive box attached.
Don't bother trying to rebuild them yourself.
If they are pitted then the usual cylinder honing will not fix them and they
will leak. Get the already rebuilt cylinder kits, or new.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

If it does not have tilt capability the job will be a lot more
difficult - whether done once or a dozen times. The hydraulic one
definitely has the tilt features required.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 10/27/2017 11:11 PM, harry newton wrote:

>
> I'm debating whether I should rebuild or replace the master cylinder and
> slave clutch release cylinder.
>
> Toyota prices are the following but I have no experience with rebuilding or
> replacing them.
> Master cylinder repair kit $30
> Master cylinder $117
> Slave cylinder repair kit $13
> Slave cylinder $50
>
> At those prices, which would you go for (rebuild or the whole thing)?
>

Did you look for rebuilt ones? They would be priced in the middle and
are done under good conditions. Check you local parts store for
availability.

There are plenty of YouTube vids on how to rebuild them too.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Unless things are badly corroded, I'd rebuild.

[Steve W.]

Before you buy a jack for one time use, call the local parts stores that
have loan a tool programs. Many have trans jacks. Will cost you the
price of the jack but when you return it in the same shape you get your
money back.



--
Steve W.

[Albert Hodge]

If you're going to get into working on Toyotas big time, check out this site that specializes in Toyota parts.

https://www.marlincrawler.com/

[harry newton]

He who is Albert Hodge said on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 03:53:09 -0500:

> If you're going to get into working on Toyotas big time, check out this site that specializes in Toyota parts.
>
> https://www.marlincrawler.com/

Thanks for the pointer to that toyota transmission specialist's site.
Marlin Crawler seems like it has almost everything needed for transmissions
(except the rebuild repair kits for the master & slave cylinders).

The prices are far better than my local Toyota dealership, but about the
same as the prices at Camelback Toyota, which usually has the best prices.

But they do seem to know transmissions well, and that means they're
probably better (by far) than any Toyota dealership (whose parts guys, in
my opinion, are almost useless, if not useless, for useful knowledge).

They do seem to carry almost everything needed for a transmission job,
starting with the entire W59 transmission at $1,250 shipped:
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/transmission/rebuilt-complete/w59>
which was one of the high prices for the repair as quoted by the local
AAMCO over the phone (low price being in the $700 range).

I don't see a transmission jack but they do sell a plastic "21-spline
clutch disc alignment tool" for $5:
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/tools/clutch-disc-alignment-tool>

They say the stock clutch is 900 ft-pounds but what they sell for $300 is a
1200 ft-pound clutch kit, where they say it includes
* 1,200 ft-lb Pressure Plate (which is $95 at Toyota for the 900ft-lb)
* Heavy Duty Metallic Clutch Disc (which is $75 at Toytoa for OEM)
* Japanese Release Bearing (which is $55 at Toyota for OEM)
* Pilot Bearing (which is $7 at Toyota for OEM)
* Alignment Tool
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit>

The prices are comparable to and slightly lower than Camelback Toyota parts
of $117 and $50 for the clutch master and slave cylinders respectively (and
half the price of the local Toyota stealership at $225 & $95 respectively).

For example, the OEM ASCO (Aisin Seiki CO) clutch master cylinder is $100:
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/hydraulics/clutch-master-cylinder-1996-2000-4runner>

And the OEM ASCO (Aisin Seiki COmpany) slave cylinder is $50:
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/hydraulics/clutch-slave-cylinder-1996-2004-4cyl>

The release (aka throwout) bearing is the same price at $50:
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/release-pilot/release-bearing-1996-04-4cyl>

The rubber shield pilot bearing is the same at $6 (rubber versus metal):
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/release-pilot/pilot-bearing>

And they sell a very strange to me Redline gear oil that doesn't have
GL4/GL5 designations, so I'd suspect it - but the site says it's fine:
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/chemicals/red-line-heavy-shockproof-synthetic-gear-oil>

[Terry Coombs]

On 10/28/2017 5:20 AM, harry newton wrote:
> He who is Albert Hodge said on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 03:53:09 -0500:
>
>> If you're going to get into working on Toyotas big time, check out
>> this site that specializes in Toyota parts.
>>
>> https://www.marlincrawler.com/
>
> Thanks for the pointer to that toyota transmission specialist's site.
> Marlin Crawler seems like it has almost everything needed for
> transmissions
> (except the rebuild repair kits for the master & slave cylinders).
>

>

> And they sell a very strange to me Redline gear oil that doesn't have
> GL4/GL5 designations, so I'd suspect it - but the site says it's fine:
> <https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/chemicals/red-line-heavy-shockproof-synthetic-gear-oil>
>

  Redline shockproof is considered to be top drawer by the Harley crowd
. The only caution I'd issue is be sure it's compatible with the brass
(if Toyota uses brass) synchro rings . Harley's don't , so the GL
designation is moot to us .

  --

  Snag

[harry newton]

He who is Terry Coombs said on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 06:47:20 -0500:

> +AKA- Redline shockproof is considered to be top drawer by the Harley crowd

> . The only caution I'd issue is be sure it's compatible with the brass
> (if Toyota uses brass) synchro rings . Harley's don't , so the GL
> designation is moot to us .

Thanks for that information because what always matters most, is whether
the stuff works and not so much the theoretical implications.

I'm looking this up now, where it seems that the entire GL-4 and GL-5 spec
really has *nothing* to do with transmissions, but with gears alone.

As you noted, apparently the GL-5 is for the hypoid gears, where the
compounds added are considered by many to be damaging to the yellow metal
that is in transmissions.

My Toyota owners manual says GL-4 or GL-5 75W90 (which is about the weight
of a 30-weight motor oil, give or take, according to what I read, and
depending on the temperature for the first five minutes of operation).

I'm confused by all this data, but Redline is a respected company based on
*all* the hits I found googling (in that nobody deprecates Redline).

So maybe this lack of a GL-4/GL-5 spec is sort of like the "blue" brake
fluid, which can't get a DOT designation because it's not "amber" color but
it exceeds the DOT specs?

Do you think that's the case with that oddball non-GL Redline fluid?

[harry newton]

He who is cl...@snyder.on.ca said on Fri, 27 Oct 2017 23:54:01 -0400:

> Unless things are badly corroded, I'd rebuild.

The car doesn't have any corrosion at all but of course I wouldn't know
what's inside the master and slave cylinder.

But the fluid is black!

I'm going to flush it today but I only have a quart of DOT4 and it calls
for DOT3.

Do you think it will harm anything to flush with DOT4 until I can get DOT3
in there until I buy and receive the parts to replace or rebuild the master
and slave cylinders?

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

harry newton wrote:

> How heavy is a W59 Toyota Tacoma transmission anyway?

Don't know. But I did a clutch job on my FJ40. I'd estimate the tranny and
transfer to weigh about 250 lbs. I can lift them if they are lying on the
ground, but not to position them for reinstallation.

I took the floor panel off (over the transmission), opened both doors, ran a
beam through the doors and hung a chain hoist from it. I don't know if a
Tacoma has such a floor panel.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Excuse me for butting in, but I'm interrupt-driven.

[rbowman]

On 10/28/2017 07:36 AM, harry newton wrote:
> Do you think it will harm anything to flush with DOT4 until I can get DOT3
> in there until I buy and receive the parts to replace or rebuild the master
> and slave cylinders?

3, 4, and 5.1 are compatible. To confuse the issue DOT 5 is silicone
based and not compatible with any of the others. Mixing them won't work.
At best they'll separate out.

The progression mostly comes down to higher boiling points. Disc brakes
have less thermal mass than the older drum brakes and can get hotter in
operation. ABS adds a few more factors.

I have DOT 5 in my '98 Harley. It's claims to fame are it doesn't absorb
water and doesn't harm paint. It does absorb air and is a bitch to
bleed. I don't know how widespread it is. It doesn't work with ABS and
I've never had a car with it, just the bike.

Since you'll be replacing the seals I'd just flush with 4 and fill it
with 4 when you're done. It's a little more expensive but nothing that
will break the bank.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 11:55:05 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

>He who is Terry Coombs said on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 06:47:20 -0500:
>
>> +AKA- Redline shockproof is considered to be top drawer by the Harley crowd
>> . The only caution I'd issue is be sure it's compatible with the brass
>> (if Toyota uses brass) synchro rings . Harley's don't , so the GL
>> designation is moot to us .
>
>Thanks for that information because what always matters most, is whether
>the stuff works and not so much the theoretical implications.
>
>I'm looking this up now, where it seems that the entire GL-4 and GL-5 spec
>really has *nothing* to do with transmissions, but with gears alone.


>
>As you noted, apparently the GL-5 is for the hypoid gears, where the
>compounds added are considered by many to be damaging to the yellow metal
>that is in transmissions.

Not just "considered by many" but "proven"

>
>My Toyota owners manual says GL-4 or GL-5 75W90 (which is about the weight
>of a 30-weight motor oil, give or take, according to what I read, and
>depending on the temperature for the first five minutes of operation).

If your manual says GL4 or GL% the trans uses carbon fiber syncro
rings, not yellow prass. You can then use what you like. My Ranger has
a Toyo Kogyo (Mazda) trans that specifies Mercon or Dexron II fluid -
and Mercon V makes it shift like CRAP - For a short time Ford had said
to use MerconV in all their transmissions formerly using Mercon - but
not long after recinded that for the M50D.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

DOT 4 meets and excedes all specs for DOT4 - use it in good faith. It
can handle higher temperatures - DOT 4 was introduced for high
performance disc brakes that boiled and cooked DOT3.

DO NOT use DOT5.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Sorry -DOT 4 meets and excedes all specs for DOT3

[Tekkie®]

harry newton posted for all of us...

If you have repaired drum brakes than you can rebuild.
If you haven't I don't know if you need any honing tools or not and would go
with the re-hacked stuff.

--
Tekkie