"Open rollout switch circuit" error message in furnace.

[Tayl...@alt.home.repair]

"Open rollout switch circuit" error message in furnace.

A friend called me and said his gas furnace keeps shutting off. It's
fairly new and a high effencincy type, which vents out thru PVC. It
has a digital readout which says "Open rollout switch circuit". I
googled that, and found a simple drawing which shows it as a sort of
sensor, and found a picture of one. Not much more.

I emailed him the pictures and told him to shut off the power and set
his meter to OHMS and check that switch. He said there are two of them
and they are both turned to the ON or CLOSED position (Not open).

The outside temperature is well below zero, and he has kids, so I told
him he better just call a furnace repair company. If it was an older
furnace I could probably fix it, (assuming I could get parts), but I
dont know anything about these "computerized" furnaces.

He called a furnace company, the guy is swamped with calls, but said
he will come as soon as he can, but that could be several hours. The
guy told him to use space heaters till he gets there. Even if I
thought I could help, I doubt my truck will start in this cold, so it
dont make any sense to try, knowing nothing about these kind of
furnaces.

All I know is that it's a Lennox and it's giving that error code.

While I'm sure the furnace repair guy will get there before I even get
a reply on here, I thought I'd post this to see if any of you know
anything about it... I always like to learn new home repair stuff.

What's the purpose of these switches and what could be wrong?

I did tell the guy to make sure his intake and output pipes were not
clogged outdoors. He said they are fine! He also tried another
thermostat, since he had saved the old standard one when he replaced
it with a programmable one last fall. That did not change anything, so
we know the t-stat is not the cause.

Anyone?

[Uncle Monster]

He should make sure nothing is blocking the flue. If the flames are backing up from the burners(roll out) like something is blocking the exhaust, it could cause a fire. The rollout switch/sensor is such an important safety device that the furnace control will not allow the furnace to operate if the switch is not working. If the flue is blocked, flames could have hit the rollout sensor or wiring multiple times causing a failure. I'd check the rollout switch and wiring, repair it or the connections and see if the furnace will startup. If it's a simple Klixon thermostat switch, it can be jumped out for testing purposes only. It will look like one of the thermostat switches on the manufacturer's website. ^_^

http://www.sensata.com/klixon/thermostat-precision-7bt2.htm

[8~{} Uncle Rollout Monster

[Don Y]

The switches verify the presence of flame where it SHOULD be and the
absence of flame where it SHOULDN'T be!

You (he) could have a blocked heat exchanger which is preventing
the flames from flowing up through it and, instead, backing up
into the blower compartment (*outside* the heat exchanger).
Likewise, a blocked flue or something blocking the combustion
relief (not enough air to support combustion).

Or, low gas pressure causing the flames not to jet into the heat
exchanger fully (doubtful).

There are usually diagnostic LED's on the control board (*in* the furnace;
usually in the blower compartment, NOT the burner compartment) that
will give you some detail as to what is happening.

The switches can usually be reset, manually. But, this is A Bad Idea
and really should only be done by a qualified technician - just to
run the furnace long enough to understand why it/they are tripping.
They function similar to a fuse: they should NEVER trip -- doing so
means something is likely very wrong.

You (he) may be able to get the furnace to run by reseting them,
but run the risk of CO poisoning, fire, etc. as the reason for
their initial trip probably hasn;t been fixed!

[Eureka]

On 01/11/2016 01:47 AM, Tayl...@alt.home.repair wrote:
> Open rollout switch circuit" error message in furnace.
>
> A friend called me and said his gas furnace keeps shutting off. It's
> fairly new and a high effencincy type, which vents out thru PVC. It
> has a digital readout which says "Open rollout switch circuit". I
> googled that, and found a simple drawing which shows it as a sort of
> sensor, and found a picture of one. Not much more.

I always do the simple stuff like checking to make sure the
intake and exhaust vent pipes are clear, making sure some fucking
little mouse hasn't built a home in there.

Then I'd check that the draft inducer is actually creating the
proper air flow.

I also check all electrical connections to make sure they're tight.

Failing all that, then it's time to call the pros.

[Uncle Monster]

I've seen the wiring to a rollout switch melt and short out on a furnace before and the flue temperature safety switch shutdown the furnace. The simplest safety sensors just break the 24 vac control circuit. I'm not familiar with the latest newfangled Apple/Android OS Bluetooth WiFi controlled HVAC systems. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Furnace Monster

[Stormin Mormon]

Rollout safety switch senses when the flue gasses
fail to go up the chimney. Very often when it is
windy, the wind pushes "down" the chimney, and
prevents the flue gas from going up and out.

If the wind has changed, it may be fine to reset
the switch (if it has manual reset button) and
he's good to go. If it trips again, might be a
birds nest or some other thing blocking the
chimney.

I'd not want to reset it more than once, there
is a real risk of killing your family with carbon
monoxide.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/11/2016 3:26 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>
>> All I know is that it's a Lennox and it's giving that error code.
>>
>> While I'm sure the furnace repair guy will get there before I even get
>> a reply on here, I thought I'd post this to see if any of you know
>> anything about it... I always like to learn new home repair stuff.
>>
>> What's the purpose of these switches and what could be wrong?
>
> The switches verify the presence of flame where it SHOULD be and the
> absence of flame where it SHOULDN'T be!
>
> You (he) could have a blocked heat exchanger which is preventing
> the flames from flowing up through it and, instead, backing up
> into the blower compartment (*outside* the heat exchanger).
> Likewise, a blocked flue or something blocking the combustion
> relief (not enough air to support combustion).
>
>

> The switches can usually be reset, manually. But, this is A Bad Idea
> and really should only be done by a qualified technician - just to
> run the furnace long enough to understand why it/they are tripping.
> They function similar to a fuse: they should NEVER trip -- doing so
> means something is likely very wrong.
>
> You (he) may be able to get the furnace to run by reseting them,
> but run the risk of CO poisoning, fire, etc. as the reason for
> their initial trip probably hasn;t been fixed!
>

Sometimes it's wind across or down the chimney that
causes the problem. There is a good chance it's a
rare thing, and the furnace is okay, now. In western
NYS, it was very extremely windy last night.

[EXT]

<Tayl...@alt.home.repair> wrote in message
news:drj69bdp1rlctffp6...@4ax.com...

I have a high efficiency water heater that is very sensitive to atmospheric
conditions. I have found that the intake fan creates such suction on the
intake pipe that it can cause the temperature of the intake air to drop
below the outside air, and when the wind blows the "fog" from the exhaust
discharge across the intake line, it sucks some of the "fog" into the intake
pipe and freezes it just inside the intake pipe. This builds up over time
when the outside air is really cold and slowly blocks the intake pipe until
the appliance cannot get enough air. At this point the switches detect a
vacuum in the intake line and shut the heater off.

The moral of this story is go outside and check the intake and exhaust lines
to be sure that there is no blockage such as snow or ice over or inside the
lines (an animal may have tried to get in and got stuck or killed by the
exhaust fumes) and clear out anything you find. Put some mesh over both
lines to keep animals out.

Also look up the make, model and type of furnace and then go on line to get
all the manuals from the manufacturer. The installer may have not left
anything hoping for service calls. There is often a trouble-shooting repair
manual that is available if you look.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Make sure there is no water in the draft inducer or any of the vacuum
hoses due to condensation accumulatig where it shouldn't

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

If you read the OP, theer is no chimney. It is a high efficiency
condensing furnace with pvc exhaust going throgh the wall.

[dpb]

On 01/11/2016 2:04 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
...

> Make sure there is no water in the draft inducer or any of the vacuum
> hoses due to condensation accumulatig where it shouldn't

+1

W/ induced draft that's a real problem old, low-efficiency furnaces
didn't have when the water vapor just went out the chimney (along w/
about half or maybe more of the heat).

--

[bob_villain]

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 2:04:49 PM UTC-6, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> Make sure there is no water in the draft inducer or any of the vacuum
> hoses due to condensation accumulatig where it shouldn't

+1 The collection of condensate lines usually go to a box, which might have a mess of crud clogging it.

[Tony Hwang]

[Tony Hwang]

My understanding of roll out switch is over heating by some cause.
The switch usually has a tiny button(usually red in color) which will
pop when triggered. First thing to try is try again after resetting the
switch by pushing the button in. To get out of lock out state, turn the
power off, wait a few seconds and turn back on.

[dpb]

On 01/11/2016 2:51 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
...

> My understanding of roll out switch is over heating by some cause.

Possibly, but mostly it's a _location_ indication that indicates the
flame isn't in the normal geometry afaik. If that's so and it triggers
more than once it's a dangerous-enough situation if can't uncover the
cause to get the pro in first rather than later, cost or no cost.

--

[Tony Hwang]

If inducer is in trouble, operations sequence will never reach ignition.
It will fault out with inducer pressure switch problem.... Different
diagnostic code.

[mako...@yahoo.com]

Important basic info

Rollout means the fire has "rolled out" from where it
belongs and a part of the heat exchanger that is not
supposed to get hot, is getting too hot.

So obviously this could be dangerous.

If you reset the swicth, I would watch the
the burner operation carefully for a while
to make sure the fire stays here it belongs.
That can be difficult if there are lockout safteys on the
cabinet.

Mark

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/11/2016 3:06 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 07:26:12 -0500, Stormin Mormon
> <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/11/2016 1:47 AM, Tayl...@alt.home.repair wrote:
>>> "Open rollout switch circuit" error message in furnace.
>>>
>>> A friend called me and said his gas furnace keeps shutting off. It's
>>> fairly new and a high effencincy type, which vents out thru PVC. It

>> he's good to go. If it trips again, might be a
>> birds nest or some other thing blocking the
>> chimney.
>>
>> I'd not want to reset it more than once, there
>> is a real risk of killing your family with carbon
>> monoxide.
> If you read the OP, theer is no chimney. It is a high efficiency
> condensing furnace with pvc exhaust going throgh the wall.
>

I'm sorry that you can't figure out what part
of the system behaves like a chimney.

[Tekkie®]

Tayl...@alt.home.repair posted for all of us...

If it's "fairly new" why not have the installing company fix it? It should
have been serviced prior to the heating system then this is avoided. Solving
this is very hard by third person. Measuring the switches does not really
tell one what's wrong. Have him man up and get some heat in there.

--
Tekkie

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Overfueling due to gas pressure set too high will cause roll-out -
particularly on light-off. If you hear a big "whoomph" on startupget
the pressure checked.

[Uncle Monster]

The gas control valve will lock out if it's supplied with more than around 13 inches water column. The pressures will be listed on the label. There is an internal adjustable regulator for setting the output pressure to the burner manifold which is usually 3.5 inches water column. In The U.S. the normal gas pressure supplied by the regulator at the gas meter to natural gas appliances is approximately 8 inches water column. (•‿•)

[8~{} Uncle Pressured Monster

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

>The gas control valve will lock out if it's supplied with more than around 13 inches water column. The pressures will be listed on the label. There is an internal adjustable regulator for setting the output pressure to the burner manifold which is usually 3.5 inches water column. In The U.S. the normal gas pressure supplied by the regulator at the gas meter to natural gas appliances is approximately 8 inches water column. (•?•)
>
>[8~{} Uncle Pressured Monster
It is the adjustment of that "internal regulator" I'm talking about.
Changing from 3.5 to 4.2 inches can cause flame roll-out and also
cause high CO emissions. Some "quacks" will adjust the pressure up
trying to get more heat out of a furnace. It needs to be set properly.

[Uncle Monster]

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 10:33:00 PM UTC-6, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 20:16:57 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
> <fla...@fart.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 9:33:25 PM UTC-6, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 14:01:13 -0800 (PST), mako...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >Important basic info
> >> >
> >> >Rollout means the fire has "rolled out" from where it
> >> >belongs and a part of the heat exchanger that is not
> >> >supposed to get hot, is getting too hot.
> >> >
> >> >So obviously this could be dangerous.
> >> >
> >> >If you reset the swicth, I would watch the
> >> >the burner operation carefully for a while
> >> >to make sure the fire stays here it belongs.
> >> >That can be difficult if there are lockout safteys on the
> >> >cabinet.
> >> >
> >> >Mark
> >> >
> >> Overfueling due to gas pressure set too high will cause roll-out -
> >> particularly on light-off. If you hear a big "whoomph" on startupget
> >> the pressure checked.
> >

> >The gas control valve will lock out if it's supplied with more than around 13 inches water column. The pressures will be listed on the label. There is an internal adjustable regulator for setting the output pressure to the burner manifold which is usually 3.5 inches water column. In The U.S. the normal gas pressure supplied by the regulator at the gas meter to natural gas appliances is approximately 8 inches water column. (*?*)

> >
> >[8~{} Uncle Pressured Monster
> It is the adjustment of that "internal regulator" I'm talking about.
> Changing from 3.5 to 4.2 inches can cause flame roll-out and also
> cause high CO emissions. Some "quacks" will adjust the pressure up
> trying to get more heat out of a furnace. It needs to be set properly.

Oh yea, you mean the idiots who think a yellow flame puts out more heat? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Flaming Monster

[Stormin Mormon]

Only a yellow idiot would think that a
blue flame puts out more heat! Your an
idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Usenet flame provided by a yellow belly
coward who will deny having flamed you.)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

You can have an overfueled burner in today's tube burners with no (or
extremely little) yellow in the flame, and still get roll-out (and a
noisy flame)

[Uncle Monster]

I've seen it before when someone screws around with the regulator and/or air mixture. Or if the roof or side vent is improperly installed or in some odd spot where there are a lot of wind gusts. Of course there is also vegetation and critter invasion of the flue to consider. I've rarely seen rollout when there is a properly installed and operating draft inducer equipped furnace. I have seen all kinds of weird crap happen to equipment over the years. ^__^

[8~{} Uncle Furnace Monster

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/11/2016 1:47 AM, Tayl...@alt.home.repair wrote:

Is it just me? I don't believe we heard from the
OP. Perhaps the furnace burned down and killed
them all with monoxide?


--

[michae...@gmail.com]

I had the same error and you wouldn't believe what it was. The people that installed my lenox there were 2 wires that were connected opposite where they should have been. It was another furnace guy that fixed it not the people who installed it

[trader_4]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 10:23:25 AM UTC-4, michae...@gmail.com wrote:
> I had the same error and you wouldn't believe what it was. The people that installed my lenox there were 2 wires that were connected opposite where they should have been. It was another furnace guy that fixed it not the people who installed it

That seems a bit weird. You had a furnace installed where you got a flame
rollout error and someone other than the installer fixed it? How does
that happen? Presumably with that error, the furnace won't fire, so what
did the installers do, just run away? Also installers shouldn't have to
fiddle with any wires like that, those sensors are already wired, so if
they were wired wrong, it would have had to have left the factory like
that or the installers would have had to screw with them.

[Dean Hoffman]

Sloppy work from the installers. I install and fix electrical
stuff. Standard
procedure is to try things to see if I got everything right.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

I wonder if the guy who "fixed it" really did fix it .. ?
or did he actually disable it ?
.. thereby creating a dangerous condition.
John T.