Installing a 110 volt 20 amp hot tub spa GFCI questions
fzbuilder
has had the original GFCI plug cut off and replaced with a standard
plug. I am setting the spa up in my garage and plan to share the
receptical for my washing machine that is on a 20amp breaker. (Won't
be running them at the same time). I am wondering if I can use a GCFI
adapter in between the cord and outlet. The spa has 2 breakers on the
control box already. Just want to be safe.
Thanks for any help.
RBM
"fzbuilder" <Travis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9dd39f38-be68-4088...@c2g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
I would replace the washer outlet with a GFCI type instead of using an
inline device. Have you tried using the tub without gfci protection, kinda
makes you wonder why the safety was removed in the first place
terry
> "fzbuilder" <Travis.Kai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9dd39f38-be68-4088...@c2g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Hello, I just picked up a used Hot Springs spa that is 110v 20amp. It
> > has had the original GFCI plug cut off and replaced with a standard
> > plug. I am setting the spa up in my garage and plan to share the
> > be running them at the same time). I am wondering if I can use a GCFI
> > adapter in between the cord and outlet. The spa has 2 breakers on the
> > control box already. Just want to be safe.
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> I would replace the washer outlet with a GFCI type instead of using an
> makes you wonder why the safety was removed in the first place
Having never seen a a GFCI plug or a GFCI adapter I would be very
suspicious about why the plug was cut off.
Very suspicious indeed!!!!!!!!! A possibly suspect (used) device on a
wet concrete floor does not sound like very good recipe for safety (or
death!).
Agree that the safest approach would be to install a proper GFCI for
that device right at the point where it will be plugged in.
However a problem may that devices such as fridges, freezers and
clothes washers etc. are motor driven and can sometimes trip GFCI
outlets, especially as they start up. That is why GFCI are not
recommended for fridge/freezer circuits.
And if a second outlet, not GFCI equipped was installed alongside the
GFCI one there is a danger that the possibly suspect Hot Springs could
be plugged into that thereby unknowingly perhaps, creating a hazard.
Also in case of an accident also there could be the question of
liability or a refusal by an insurance company to honour the terms of
a policy due to 'tampering'! Did (and does device now) comply with UL/
CSA standards.
Sounds like a need to be very careful indeed. And make sure everything
is grounded and bonded including the water supply, as often required
in bathrooms especailly those equipped with Jacuzzis etc.
RBM
"terry" <tsan...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:0a7774f5-f5ee-44f7...@f13g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Lots of manufacturers are installing GFCI plugs on things like hair dryers
and even airconditioners. It's all a matter of CYA
John Grabowski
"fzbuilder" <Travis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9dd39f38-be68-4088...@c2g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
I agree with RBM. Change the washing machine receptacle to a 20 amp GFI
receptacle. It is probably cheaper than an inline device or GFI plug. The
original GFI plug may have been removed because it was too bulky to plug
into a weatherproof receptacle.
The current electrical code has specific requirements for hot tub
installations. I can't recall everything from my code class, but I remember
that the use of insulated mats was required on concrete floors around the
perimeter of the tub where equipotential bonding has not been installed.
Concrete is an excellent ground and stepping on it while wet would just make
you all the more conductive if there was an electrical problem. Check out
article 680.
Stormin Mormon
Makes me wonder if the last owner was ignorant about GFCI. Or, if the
interruptor kept tripping off, and he got tired of having to reset it all
the time.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"fzbuilder" <Travis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9dd39f38-be68-4088...@c2g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
tra...@optonline.net
Good question. Installing a GFCI outlet or replacing the breaker in
the main panel with a GFCI breaker is what I would do. Also, I think
120V spas are of dubious value. They take a very long time to heat
up, because the heating capacity is on the order of 1/4 what it is
with a 240V spa. Also, in the ones I've seen, because of current
limitations, the pump/blower and the heater cannot be on at the same
time. From the above you get the following:
From a practical standpoint, you can't really keep it turned down to a
lower temp to save energy, because to get it back up takes a long
time. It could work if you have it on a timer and know that you want
to use it everyday at a particular time, etc, but for spontaneous use,
it doesn't work.
And however hot it is when you start using it, that's as hot as it's
going to get. Which is fine if you're using it for 15 mins, but if
you want to have it going for a lot longer, the water is going to be
slowly cooling off.
>
> Makes me wonder if the last owner was ignorant about GFCI. Or, if the
> interruptor kept tripping off, and he got tired of having to reset it all
> the time.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> "fzbuilder" <Travis.Kai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
ransley
The first thing I would have done before buying someones trouble would
have been test it with a portable GFI and the ground for voltage.
John Grabowski
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:fd7ee21e-6534-4b7e...@r40g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 20, 8:45 am, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why would a 110 volt spa have two breakers?
Good question. Installing a GFCI outlet or replacing the breaker in
the main panel with a GFCI breaker is what I would do. Also, I think
120V spas are of dubious value. They take a very long time to heat
up, because the heating capacity is on the order of 1/4 what it is
with a 240V spa. Also, in the ones I've seen, because of current
limitations, the pump/blower and the heater cannot be on at the same
time. From the above you get the following:
From a practical standpoint, you can't really keep it turned down to a
lower temp to save energy, because to get it back up takes a long
time. It could work if you have it on a timer and know that you want
to use it everyday at a particular time, etc, but for spontaneous use,
it doesn't work.
And however hot it is when you start using it, that's as hot as it's
going to get. Which is fine if you're using it for 15 mins, but if
you want to have it going for a lot longer, the water is going to be
slowly cooling off.
*I agree. I had forgotten about that aspect of the 120 volt spas. They
really need to be plugged in and running all of the time to maintain the
temperature. The heater will not operate when you are using the whirlpool
jets. With this in mind I change my original opinion. You need to install
a separate 20 amp circuit for the hot tub to operate properly.
terry
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes sounds like the new owner needs someone VERY knowledgeable.
Probably not just an 'ordinary' electrician or amateur such as myself
who be able to test this used unit. Maybe a 'pool' or jacuzzi
technician?
Also maybe, and whether such changes would even be to code, maybe the
unit needs its own wiring or separate wiring for the heaters and pump
circuits. Not just 'fixed up somehow' and plugged into a convenient
garage outlet not even equipped with a GFCI.
Be too late when some kid, (or adult) gets electrocuted! Water or even
dampness can be deadly mix even at 115 volts!!!!
fzbuilder
> "fzbuilder" <Travis.Kai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I got it from the original owner who was upgrading to a swim spa. He
claimed the spa had served him well and had replaced heater and pump
recently. Don't know why the GFCI was replaced at the cord, but I can
only conclude that the GFCI plug that came with the spa ,is not a
standard electrical 115v plug type and would not fit into the wall. I
am going to install a GFCI (and rest everything) in the outlet as
recomended and put some mats down. The 2 resets inside the tub are
factory and one is for the heater and one for the pumps overload. Not
sure if they are GFCI. Just will have to unplug the the hot tub to do
laundry for now. Thanks for all the input guys!
fzbuilder
> On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), fzbuilder
> Is your panel anywhere near the spa location?
No it is about 30 feet away and yes this tub says it can run 240v so I
will prob go that route from what I am reading eventually.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:us3bi4933ik9jh2hp...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
wire. Either that, or it's a 220 volt "two breaker" unit, and won't run very
well on the 110 volt washing machine socket. any which way, it's confusion.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"terry" <tsan...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:b02ef490-0ae1-4e61...@t2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
tra...@optonline.net
These 120V spas are sold as portables and designed to be plugged into
a 20V outlet and can be used that way safely. The ones I've seen
have their own GFCI. I would say if you use it as intended, it's
safe and no electrician or rocket scientist is necessary. However,
if you do start screwing around with changing the wiring, as suggested
above, then you are on your own.
> Be too late when some kid, (or adult) gets electrocuted! Water or even
> dampness can be deadly mix even at 115 volts!!!!- Hide quoted text -
Bob
> Hello, I just picked up a used Hot Springs spa that is 110v 20amp. It
> has had the original GFCI plug cut off and replaced with a standard
> plug.
The 80's vintage spas had a GFCI plug that was prone to premature
failure. If the circuit to which it was connected was protected by a
GFCI, safety would still be maintained with a standard plugged.
Actually it is improved with the elimination of the non-watertight
connection to the outlet.
> I am setting the spa up in my garage and plan to share the
> receptical for my washing machine that is on a 20amp breaker. (Won't
> be running them at the same time). I am wondering if I can use a GCFI
> adapter in between the cord and outlet.
Not a good idea to share the spa and washer on the same circuit. One
feature of the 120 volt spa is that the main pump and heater don't run
at the same time. The heater may come on at any time along with a small
circulating pump.
> The spa has 2 breakers on the control box already. Just want to be safe.
One breaker protects the jet pump, the other protects the heater. The
spa needs a 20 amp GFCI protected circuit and the plug needs to be
protected from contact with water.
fzbuilder
gfci trips. I can run the pump fine, but when I turn the pump off and
turn the heater up, it shuts off the GFCI instantly. Bad heater
element? Any ideas? Thanks
crai...@gmail.com
FromTheRafters
trader_4
> Mine does the same thing, I'm going to run a separate designated 20 amp line from the breaker box to see if that solves the problem. The instructions manual says designated 20 amp line not a shared 20 amp line. It did ran fine when I removed the GFI breaker and put in a regular 20 amp breaker. But that is not the proper or Safeway to run the hot tub, so that is why I'm going to run the designated 20 amp line to the hot tub to see if all my problems will go away. Good luck with yours
and whether something else is on the circuit or not isn't your problem.
I assume you also disconnected any other load on that circuit.
They tell you it needs a dedicated 20A circuit because those 120V spas
take just about all of 20A. Really it needs a 240V circuit to work
right, ie heat up quickly, be able to run the heater and pump on high, etc.
But people like to buy the 120V ones because they think they can just
plug them in. When you need a 120V dedicated circuit anyway, might as
well make it a 240A, 40A and have a spa that works right.
danalee...@gmail.com
trader_4
> Hi i have 110 volt 20 amp hot tub gfi 100 feet long . what guage do it need? 12/2 0r10/2?
of voltage drop. I'd use 12, unless there was reason to think 10 would
be of some future use. Up to you.
I hope this is an indoor, bathtub size hot tub, that just uses AC
for the pump. IMO, anything larger
than that, one that uses AC for heat, 120V is a bad idea. It takes
4X or more time to heat up compared to 240V. You can't run the heat
and pump on high at the same time, etc.