help with soldering shower valve

[Doug Smith]

Hi there,

I'm having great difficulties soldering 1/2" copper pipe to my shower valve
(Delta 1400 series tub/shower faucet). The solder just will not take to the
joint. The first time I tried it I was starting with brand new copper pipe
and shower valve - sanded clean and fluxed. The soldering didn't turn out
very well, so I'm trying it agian. I was very careful in cleaning the parts
again, and I'm stuck with the same problem: heating the joint with the torch
for a long time, the solder still is reluctant to be drawn into the joint.
I'm reasonably confident in my technique, because I'm able to solder other
fittings (elbows, connectors) on the same fixture without problems. Some of
these other fittings are quite old, so I'm confident in my cleaning
techniques. My only guess right now is that the fittings on the shower
valve may be a bit large, therefore not allowing perfect conductivity
between the copper pipe and the valve fitting. But even if this is the
case, how can I fix it?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Below is a link to the installation instructions of my Delta valve, if
you're interested in seeing what it looks like.

http://www.deltafaucet.com/pdf/33780.pdf

thanks,
Doug

[Doug Smith]

Okay, I just talked to a plumber from Delta, and he said that the large
brass valve takes a lot of flame for it to heat up. So I guess I know what
to do now. The big question is: should I try installing the fixture with
soldered joints that I have now (not sure if they're okay, they don't look
as good as my other joints), or should I remove the pipe, clean the parts
again, and re-solder.

Doug

"Doug Smith" <mrsl...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:8iTsa.130022$dh1.4...@news0.telusplanet.net...

[Speedy Jim]

Doug Smith wrote:
>
> Okay, I just talked to a plumber from Delta, and he said that the large
> brass valve takes a lot of flame for it to heat up. So I guess I know what
> to do now.

Here's what I would do:
Remove the shower valve from the wall and take it to the workbench
where you can safely heat it with a big enough torch flame and not
set the wall afire.

Solder short (~6") stubs of copper into all the ports (or use
male adapters if it's threaded).

Mount the valve in the wall. Connect the stubs to the risers
using copper sweat couplings. If space is tight, you can use
a "repair" coupling, which has no stop in the middle.

I wet the wall and studs down and use a heat shield behind the
fitting to minimize chances of fire.

Jim

[jeffc]

"Speedy Jim" <vo...@nls.net> wrote in message news:3EB40B...@nls.net...

>
> Here's what I would do:
> Remove the shower valve from the wall and take it to the workbench
> where you can safely heat it with a big enough torch flame and not
> set the wall afire.
>
> Solder short (~6") stubs of copper into all the ports (or use
> male adapters if it's threaded).

This is basically what I do, except I prefit the whole pipe system without
solder, and cut all the pieces and hold them in place, with joints. Then
rather than use 6" stubs, I use the exact lengths that go in there. This
works well if there are joints near the fixture anyway. Obviously if you've
got long straight runs straight from the fixture, and you don't have access
behind the wall, then you can't do it this way.

[Wade Lippman]

Or you could use epoxy.

I have only used it once a few days ago, and then only on a 40psi pipe, but
it seemed to work well.

[MMEMILL]

my suggestion is to "tin" the valve assembly first.do the same for the
fittings. dissasemble the valve first so nothing melts or warps.clean it good
and using enough flux heat the valve and add the solder in a "thin" coat.do the
same with each fitting. not heavy.then as you're heating the larger opening
slowly slide them together .this ensures solder to solder bonding.it works.

[Doug Smith]

Yes, Jim had excellent advice, as to does everyone. Thanks for the help.

I put together the whole fixture on a workbench (ie my floor). The valve
was still quite hard to solder, I had to heat it for a very long time (it
was easy to remove all of the plastic parts from the valve). I eventually
got everything together although I was less than confident that it wouldn't
leak. Problem #2 was getting my fixture to connect with the risers. That
seems to be the one drawback to this method: my risers are old and have a
few bends in them. It was extremely hard to fit my fixture into them. But
I eventually got it. Turned on the water and no leaks. Whew.

sluggo

"Trent" <trent...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aat8bvkaevjfs2ke6...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 03 May 2003 18:15:00 GMT, "Doug Smith" <mrsl...@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Okay, I just talked to a plumber from Delta, and he said that the large
> >brass valve takes a lot of flame for it to heat up. So I guess I know
what
> >to do now. The big question is: should I try installing the fixture with
> >soldered joints that I have now (not sure if they're okay, they don't
look
> >as good as my other joints), or should I remove the pipe, clean the parts
> >again, and re-solder.
> >
> >Doug
>

> As you've noticed, Doug, the fitting is a lot stronger and heavier
> than the copper pipe yer usin'. So, yes...it does require more heat.
>
> I'd follow Jim's excellent advice.
>
> A few extra thoughts...
>
> If the ports are threaded, consider using plastic pipe. At any rate,
> avoid putting a lot of heat to that valve. Disassemble whatever you
> can easily.
>
> If you can put on the stubs...and yer in a pinch for soldering
> room...consider using compression unions. IMHO, it would be better
> though if you can just burn the connections.
>
> Make sure you have a near-full tank of gas...so that you get enough
> pressure.
>
> And its always a good idea to ream out the pipe after a cut.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> Have a nice week...
>
> Trent
>
>
> Cat...the OTHER white meat!