Vaccination really does reduce spread.

64 views
Skip to first unread message

Bob F

unread,
Nov 19, 2021, 8:32:53 PM11/19/21
to
From the NYT newsletter


"One of the benefits of the vaccines is their ability to prevent you
from getting infected at all. They're not perfect — their main purpose
is to stave off severe illness — but they do this quite well. If you're
not carrying the virus, you can't spread it.

Even if you get a breakthrough case, several studies this year suggest
you're less likely to pass the virus onto others if you've had the shots.

Researchers in Britain found that the likelihood of household
transmission was 40 to 50 percent lower in the homes of vaccinated
people compared with unvaccinated people. Another non-peer-reviewed
study out of the Netherlands found that transmission to unvaccinated
housemates was 63 percent lower among vaccinated people.

Yet another study, also not yet peer reviewed, examined hundreds of
thousands of cases and concluded that people were less likely to infect
their close contacts if they were vaccinated, though it found that this
protection diminished about three months after their second dose. “Not
only does getting vaccinated reduce your risk of becoming seriously ill
from the virus, it also protects those around you,” Tom Frieden, a
former CDC director, said of the research.

It's possible that vaccinated people who develop breakthrough cases may
carry similar amounts of the virus as unvaccinated people at the height
of infection. Some studies indicate that this “peak viral load” can be
about the same for both groups.

But there's compelling evidence that vaccinated people get rid of the
virus faster.

“The reason that vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus
is because their immune system has been trained to recognize and respond
quickly to the virus and is able to limit both how much virus they
produce and period of time they produce it for,” said Christopher
Brooke, a microbiologist and co-author of a paper showing virus shedding
and covid-19 symptoms were lower in vaccinated people.

“By reducing the amount of virus shed and the duration of virus
shedding," he told me, “vaccination reduces the odds that someone will
transmit.”

None of that is to say that vaccinated people should take their foot off
the brake if they develop symptoms or test positive. It's just as
important for people who've gotten the shots to stay home if they're
sick and isolate until their infection clears. "

hub...@ccanoemail.ca

unread,
Nov 19, 2021, 9:04:11 PM11/19/21
to
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:32:53 -0800, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From the NYT newsletter
>
snips
>
>None of that is to say that vaccinated people should take their foot off
>the brake if they develop symptoms or test positive. It's just as
>important for people who've gotten the shots to stay home if they're
>sick and isolate until their infection clears. "


Our Health Unit does not use just symptoms or a positive test
as reason to self isolate - close contact with anyone who has
covid also calls for self isolation.

" Self-isolation means staying home when you have symptoms
of COVID-19, or if you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19."

https://www.hpph.ca/en/health-matters/covid-19-self-isolation-information.aspx

It's a significant distinction.
John T.

Bob F

unread,
Nov 19, 2021, 10:33:13 PM11/19/21
to
But the vaccinated are clearly less likely to spread covid. But maybe
that's partially because they have enough knowledge and respect for
others to be careful not to spread it.

John Brown

unread,
Nov 19, 2021, 11:57:36 PM11/19/21
to
Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote
>> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> From the NYT newsletter

>>> None of that is to say that vaccinated people should take their foot off
>>> the brake if they develop symptoms or test positive. It's just as
>>> important for people who've gotten the shots to stay home if they're
>>> sick and isolate until their infection clears. "

>> Our Health Unit does not use just symptoms or a positive test
>> as reason to self isolate - close contact with anyone who has
>> covid also calls for self isolation.

>> " Self-isolation means staying home when you have symptoms of COVID-19,
>> or if you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19."

>> https://www.hpph.ca/en/health-matters/covid-19-self-isolation-information.aspx

>> It's a significant distinction.

> But the vaccinated are clearly less likely to spread covid.

That’s very arguable indeed given that when the vaccinated
do get infected, and plenty of them do, they are far less likely
to have any symptoms and to get tested for that reason and
appear to be just as infectious as anyone else.

> But maybe that's partially because they have enough knowledge and respect
> for others to be careful not to spread it.

There isn't any evidence of that either.

micky

unread,
Nov 19, 2021, 11:58:49 PM11/19/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Nov 2021 19:33:06 -0800, Bob F
Very early on, my 2-door away neighbor was having her 80th birthday.
People did not try to come in, many just drove by the house, honked the
horn, but others walked or drove over and mingled and talked. Probably
all wore masks but it's been 18 months and I don't remember. But I do
remember my next door neibhbor, a 30 year old guy who one might predict
would be reckless. He was standing way back from the crowd. It turned
out he'd already had it. Didn't want it again, and didn't want to
violate the rules.

Bob F

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 12:48:51 AM11/20/21
to
On 11/19/2021 8:57 PM, John Brown wrote:
> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
>> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote
>>> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>  From the NYT newsletter
>
>>>> None of that is to say that vaccinated people should take their foot
>>>> off the brake if they develop symptoms or test positive. It's just
>>>> as important for people who've gotten the shots to stay home if
>>>> they're sick and isolate until their infection clears. "
>
>>> Our Health Unit does not use  just   symptoms  or a positive test
>>> as reason to self isolate  -   close contact with anyone who has
>>> covid  also  calls for   self isolation.
>
>>> "  Self-isolation means staying home when you have symptoms of
>>> COVID-19, or if you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19."
>
>>> https://www.hpph.ca/en/health-matters/covid-19-self-isolation-information.aspx
>>>
>
>>> It's a significant distinction.
>
>> But the vaccinated are clearly less likely to spread covid.
>
> That’s very arguable indeed given that when the vaccinated
> do get infected, and plenty of them do, they are far less likely
> to have any symptoms and to get tested for that reason and
> appear to be just as infectious as anyone else.

Yet the evidence in the studies clearly says that is not true. They are
infected for less time, and they are less likely spread covid and spread
it for less time if they do.

Read the post again.

Bob F

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 12:50:02 AM11/20/21
to
Exactly!

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 1:33:11 AM11/20/21
to
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:32:53 -0800, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yada yada
But you still need a mask right?

Then the game didn't change.

John Brown

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 3:54:30 AM11/20/21
to
Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
> John Brown wrote
>> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote
>>>> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> From the NYT newsletter
>>
>>>>> None of that is to say that vaccinated people should take their foot
>>>>> off the brake if they develop symptoms or test positive. It's just as
>>>>> important for people who've gotten the shots to stay home if they're
>>>>> sick and isolate until their infection clears. "
>>
>>>> Our Health Unit does not use just symptoms or a positive test
>>>> as reason to self isolate - close contact with anyone who has
>>>> covid also calls for self isolation.
>>
>>>> " Self-isolation means staying home when you have symptoms of
>>>> COVID-19, or if you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19."
>>
>>>> https://www.hpph.ca/en/health-matters/covid-19-self-isolation-information.aspx
>>
>>>> It's a significant distinction.
>>
>>> But the vaccinated are clearly less likely to spread covid.
>>
>> That’s very arguable indeed given that when the vaccinated
>> do get infected, and plenty of them do, they are far less likely
>> to have any symptoms and to get tested for that reason and
>> appear to be just as infectious as anyone else.

> Yet the evidence in the studies clearly says that is not true.

No it does not with those infecting others early on when they are infected.

They are
> infected for less time, and they are less likely spread covid and spread
> it for less time if they do.

Yes, but as I said, are more likely to infect others early on.

> Read the post again.

Don’t need to, it missed the point I made.

Peeler

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 4:07:20 AM11/20/21
to
On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 19:54:18 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57...@mid.individual.net>

micky

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 4:48:51 AM11/20/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:57:25 +1100, "John Brown"
<kib...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
>> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote
>>> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> From the NYT newsletter
>
>>>> None of that is to say that vaccinated people should take their foot off
>>>> the brake if they develop symptoms or test positive. It's just as
>>>> important for people who've gotten the shots to stay home if they're
>>>> sick and isolate until their infection clears. "
>
>>> Our Health Unit does not use just symptoms or a positive test
>>> as reason to self isolate - close contact with anyone who has
>>> covid also calls for self isolation.
>
>>> " Self-isolation means staying home when you have symptoms of COVID-19,
>>> or if you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19."
>
>>> https://www.hpph.ca/en/health-matters/covid-19-self-isolation-information.aspx
>
>>> It's a significant distinction.
>
>> But the vaccinated are clearly less likely to spread covid.
>
>That’s very arguable indeed given that when the vaccinated
>do get infected, and plenty of them do, they are far less likely
>to have any symptoms and to get tested for that reason and
>appear to be just as infectious as anyone else.

I thought there were plenty of non-vaccinated that don't have any
symptoms either. but if you're right, vaccinations are a really good
thing.
>
>> But maybe that's partially because they have enough knowledge and respect
>> for others to be careful not to spread it.
>
>There isn't any evidence of that either.

Of course there is. That they got vaccinated is proof of the first, and
that people don't get vaccinated is proof that they're lakcing in the
second.

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 5:46:56 AM11/20/21
to
What is it with you and masks? It's not as if they're a full Bubble Boy
suit. I'll happily wear a mask for the rest of my life.

Cindy Hamilton

trader_4

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 7:15:13 AM11/20/21
to
On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 1:33:11 AM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
I knew we could count on you.


trader_4

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 7:19:16 AM11/20/21
to
And then when you say that he's anti-mask, Frewell gets upset and claims that
he's not, that all he's done is point out that N95 are the best.

Frank

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 7:28:13 AM11/20/21
to
When this first started I noticed that many women looked better with a mask.

I also recall a beautiful woman whose image evaporated when she opened
her mouth.

rbowman

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 12:36:08 PM11/20/21
to
I'll wear a mask from the door to my desk. I wouldn't say I'm very happy
since it's pure bullshit. It keeps the HR dweebs happy although I can't
remember the last time one came down to our cave.

rbowman

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 12:37:29 PM11/20/21
to
Are you saying the CDC formally implemented the policy of putting a bag
over her head?


John Brown

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 12:44:01 PM11/20/21
to
micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote
In fact far fewer than with the vaccinated.

> but if you're right, vaccinations are a really good thing.

Yep, the mRNA vaccines are very effective at dramatically
reducing severe disease and death due to the virus.

>>> But maybe that's partially because they have enough knowledge and
>>> respect
>>> for others to be careful not to spread it.
>>
>>There isn't any evidence of that either.
>
> Of course there is. That they got vaccinated is proof of the first,

Nope, just that they have enough of a clue to take good advice to get
vaccinated.

> and that people don't get vaccinated is proof that they're lakcing in the
> second.

That's not the main reason those who are too stupid to get vaccinated refuse
to get vaccinated.

Peeler

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 2:04:50 PM11/20/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 04:43:52 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$.d...@sqwertz.com>

Peeler

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 2:06:37 PM11/20/21
to
On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:37:24 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


>> When this first started I noticed that many women looked better with a
>> mask.
>
> Are you saying the CDC formally implemented the policy of putting a bag
> over her head?

If ONLY a mask would stop you from endlessly spouting your senile bullshit,
senile gossip!

Peeler

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 2:11:21 PM11/20/21
to
On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:36:00 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> I'll wear a mask from the door to my desk. I wouldn't say I'm very happy
> since it's pure bullshit. It keeps the HR dweebs happy although I can't
> remember the last time one came down to our cave.

You're some real cool shit, gossip girl! <BG>

--
Cool gossiping "lowbrowwoman" about herself:
"Usenet is my blog... I don't give a damn if anyone ever reads my posts
but they are useful in marshaling [sic] my thoughts."
MID: <iteioi...@mid.individual.net>

Snag

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 6:31:00 PM11/20/21
to
I will piss on alla y'all's graves when you die from vax
complications . There is none so blind as he who will not see ...
--
Snag
Let's Go Brandon !

John Brown

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 7:11:10 PM11/20/21
to
Snag <snag...@msn.com> wrote
We will be pissing on yours because the risk of dying from the virus is
vastly
higher than the risk of dying from the complications with the mRNA vaccines.

> There is none so blind as he who will not see ...

Your sig is sposed to have a line with just -- on it in front of it, fool.

Snag

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 7:47:01 PM11/20/21
to
You musta missed it so here it is again . And I repeat "None so blind
..." .

micky

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 7:48:21 PM11/20/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 04:43:52 +1100, "John Brown"
No, you're wrong. We don't know about most of them because *they have
no symptoms*. If there were a lot more testing we'd know about them,
but I dont' think that's reason enough to do that much more testing.

>
>> but if you're right, vaccinations are a really good thing.
>
>Yep, the mRNA vaccines are very effective at dramatically
>reducing severe disease and death due to the virus.
>
>>>> But maybe that's partially because they have enough knowledge and
>>>> respect
>>>> for others to be careful not to spread it.
>>>
>>>There isn't any evidence of that either.
>>
>> Of course there is. That they got vaccinated is proof of the first,
>
>Nope, just that they have enough of a clue to take good advice to get
>vaccinated.

And that's knowledge. Trying to belittle it by calling it a clue is not
right. For one thing, a clue is something that tentatively leads to
something else. Here, there is no intermediate step.

>> and that people don't get vaccinated is proof that they're lakcing in the
>> second.
>
>That's not the main reason those who are too stupid to get vaccinated refuse
>to get vaccinated.

It may not be the main reason but whenever I've seen them interviewed
and it's pointed out that it's good for society to get vaccinated, they
express affrirmatively lack of interest or even scorn for the welfare of
others, except maybe their own family.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 8:55:57 PM11/20/21
to
The mask irritates my sinuses and makes my nose run. Pretty quickly I
have defeated the whole objective when the mask becomes a moistened
mist humidifier.

I go through a lot of them if I am forced to wear them.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 9:05:12 PM11/20/21
to
Nobody has had a decent answer tho.

If we are still living through lockdowns, wearing masks and generally
walking around afraid, how did the game change?

It changed for us in Florida because our governor said "enough is
enough" and now we are back in the minimal transmission status without
doing any of that stuff.
CDC this week

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Covid%20map%20nov%202022.jpg

John Brown

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 9:11:26 PM11/20/21
to
Nope.

> We don't know about most of them because *they have no symptoms*.

Then how do you know that they have been infected ?

> If there were a lot more testing we'd know about them,

Plenty of other countries have a lot more testing and know that there
aren't all that many who are infected who don't have any symptoms.

> but I dont' think that's reason enough to do that much more testing.

It would allow the infected to be isolated so they cant infect others.

>>> but if you're right, vaccinations are a really good thing.
>>
>>Yep, the mRNA vaccines are very effective at dramatically
>>reducing severe disease and death due to the virus.
>>
>>>>> But maybe that's partially because they have enough knowledge and
>>>>> respect
>>>>> for others to be careful not to spread it.
>>>>
>>>>There isn't any evidence of that either.
>>>
>>> Of course there is. That they got vaccinated is proof of the first,
>>
>>Nope, just that they have enough of a clue to take good advice to get
>>vaccinated.
>
> And that's knowledge.

Nope.

> Trying to belittle it

I was doing nothing of the sort.

> by calling it a clue is not right. For
> one thing, a clue is something that
> tentatively leads to something else.

That's not what the phrase is about.

> Here, there is no intermediate step.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

>>> and that people don't get vaccinated is proof that they're lakcing in
>>> the
>>> second.
>>
>>That's not the main reason those who are too stupid to get vaccinated
>>refuse
>>to get vaccinated.
>
> It may not be the main reason but whenever I've seen them interviewed
> and it's pointed out that it's good for society to get vaccinated, they
> express affrirmatively lack of interest or even scorn for the welfare of
> others, except maybe their own family.

Sure, but that's a tiny subset of those who refuse to be vaccinated.

Far more refuse to be vaccinated because they stupidly believe
that the risk with vaccination is higher than with getting infected.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 9:13:05 PM11/20/21
to
I simply point out if you really think it helps you should be using a
50% effective KN95, not a 10% chinese knock off surgical mask or a <0%
do rag on your face. (Based on the Louisville study and the Vietnam
study)
Otherwise it is just virtue signaling.

micky

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 9:20:35 PM11/20/21
to
TL/DR

I've spent more than enough time on this.

John Brown

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 10:33:02 PM11/20/21
to
No one said it didn't.

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote

> TL/DR

DKEPW

> I've spent more than enough time on this.

You have indeed and added nothing.

Bob F

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 11:04:33 PM11/20/21
to
There are. And there are way more non-vaccinated that are spreading the
disease because they don't have symptoms YET.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 11:06:20 PM11/20/21
to
Which county are you?
How did that masking and hiding under your bed work?
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Covid%20NJ.jpg

source
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

John Brown

unread,
Nov 20, 2021, 11:49:53 PM11/20/21
to
Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
But lots of vaccinated infected who never get symptoms who infect others.

Yes, its important to get vaccinated but clearly that doesn’t fix the
problem
as the very highly vaccinated countries like Singapore proves.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:02:13 AM11/21/21
to
On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:04:24 -0800, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>There are. And there are way more non-vaccinated that are spreading the
>disease because they don't have symptoms YET.

We really don't know that since vaccinated people generally don't have
symptoms severe enough to seek medical attention so they don't get
tested. Nobody has a clue how many vaxed people carry the virus but
are successful in fighting off the bad effects.


Clare Snyder

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:17:41 AM11/21/21
to
Pot - Kettle - Black

'nuff said

Clare Snyder

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:20:26 AM11/21/21
to
On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 21:20:32 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>TL/DR
>
>I've spent more than enough time on this.
There's a "snag" in the old goat's wiring ( as in - "he's got his
wires crossed")

Peeler

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 5:02:03 AM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 11:10:59 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


>> I will piss on alla y'all's graves when you die from vax complications .
>
> We will be pissing on yours

There's no "we" for you, you delusional psychopathic swine. Nobody, but
nobody, identifies with you cretin. Everyone who knows you, ALREADY keeps
pissing on you. And that's the VERY reason why you are trolling on Usenet,
you abnormal nym-shifting octogenarian senile pest!

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID: <pu07vj$s5$2...@dont-email.me>

Peeler

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 5:02:34 AM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:11:15 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff...@googlegroups.com>

Peeler

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 5:03:26 AM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 14:32:51 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Peeler

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 5:11:35 AM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 15:49:41 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 87-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

Snag

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 7:57:57 AM11/21/21
to
Clare , if you'd look at sources other than the mainstream media
you'd get a more rounded view of the actual state of this "pandemic" .
Have you noticed an uptick in the frequency of heart problems in
children since they started jabbing 5-12 year olds ?

trader_4

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:20:46 AM11/21/21
to
I see 800K dead in the US from Covid, not from the vaccines.
Talk about the blind.... With hundreds of millions vaccinated,
when exactly are we all going to die?

trader_4

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:30:54 AM11/21/21
to
It changed by the fact that if we listened to you in spring 2020 and just
let her rip, we'd likely have reached the forecast 2 mil dead. Those measures
bought us precious time to learn how to treat people, to develop the vaccines
and new drugs, which are due any day now.


>
> It changed for us in Florida because our governor said "enough is
> enough" and now we are back in the minimal transmission status without
> doing any of that stuff.
> CDC this week

Yes, after having a horrific summer of death and sickness, Covid soaring to
new heights in Florida. But no worries, it boosted mini-Trump Ron's appeal
to the Republicans so he can get the nomination if Trump doesn't run, so
that makes it worth it.


>
> http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Covid%20map%20nov%202022.jpg


Right, just focus on today, totally ignore the five alarm fire Florida had
just two months ago, one of the worst, if not the worst, in the whole
country. It should be obvious to you that the reason the few
southern states are lower at the moment is because most of the rest
of the country is now cold, with people indoors. We'll see what it looks
like by January.


trader_4

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:33:27 AM11/21/21
to
Plus there are studies out now that show that people who are vaccinated
that have breakthrough cases are much less effective at transmitting it to
others. Scientists are not sure exactly why yet.

trader_4

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:34:56 AM11/21/21
to
We do have studies out now that show the vaccinated that have breakthrough
cases are much less capable of infecting others.

trader_4

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:43:56 AM11/21/21
to
On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 7:57:57 AM UTC-5, Snag wrote:

> >
> Clare , if you'd look at sources other than the mainstream media
> you'd get a more rounded view of the actual state of this "pandemic" .
> Have you noticed an uptick in the frequency of heart problems in
> children since they started jabbing 5-12 year olds ?
> --
> Snag
> Let's Go Brandon !

Who would those other sources be, Qanon?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/01/health/covid-kids-children.html

So how common is myocarditis, really? And should parents be concerned about vaccinating their children?

Absolutely not, said several experts familiar with the recent studies. While the vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna do seem to be associated with an increased risk of myocarditis, the absolute risk remains very small. Most cases are mild and resolve quickly.

“If you look at an isolated risk, you could really get yourself very worked up and scared,” said Dr. Brian Feingold, an expert on heart inflammation in children at UPMC Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh.

But Covid-19 itself, he noted, is much more apt to damage the heart permanently: “Statistically, that’s way more likely.”


And that's exactly what the right wing loons, ranging from Qanon to Hannity, do. They
focus on the exceptional rare cases of myocarditis and totally ignore all the sickness,
hospitalizations and deaths that have occurred in the unvaccinated. As of now, I
haven't even heard of any cases of myocarditis in 5 to 12 year olds. AFAIK, it's been
an adverse reaction seen primarily in a small number of late teens to 20 year olds.
But don't let that get in the way of the loon narrative. I'd love to see your sources.



Ed Pawlowski

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:55:03 AM11/21/21
to
That's because science is kind of shaky at times and the lab mice don't
always do the right thing. I prefer to get an accurate take on thing
from knowledgeable politicians, football players and a couple of good
web sites. They know what is best for us.

Mark Lloyd

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 11:19:50 AM11/21/21
to
On 11/20/21 18:10, John Brown wrote:

[snip]

> Your sig is sposed to have a line with just -- on it in front of it, fool.

The correct sig separator is "-- " not "--". That is, dash-dash-space.

--
34 days until the winter celebration (Saturday, December 25, 2021
12:00:00 AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent and the serpent didn't have a
leg to stand on." [Anonymous]

Clare Snyder

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:10:16 PM11/21/21
to
No, There is none. - And I don't get my health informastion from
"lamestream media" More people in real numbers or weighted
percentages die of Covid than of the "jab" by a ratio of several
thousand to one. More people suffer long term effects from Covid than
suffer ANY effect (other than possibly a sore arm) from the "jab".

Virtually all "adverse effects" of the "jab" are evident within hours
(if not minutes or even seconds) and since the medical community knows
what to look for virtually all are surviveable. There have been NO
deaths in Canada frm miocarditis or pericarditis from the vaccine, and
the total incidence of either one is not larger by any statistical
measure in people of any age group.

I know several people who have had miocarditis in years past - long
before the virus or the vaccine - and none in the last 2 years. There
is no PROOF yet that ANY of the cases were caused by the vaccine,
although there is enough of a possibility that it is being regarded as
a possible risk and is being monitored for.

There will be ONE HELL OF A LOT MORE unvaccinated dead due to
CoronaVirus than there will be dead from effects of the vaccine, even
with 80% +/- of the population vaccinated.

Also, for all those who refuse to take an "experimental" or"alien"
vaccine, there is still the "traditional" vaccine available.

For better than 90% of "vaccine hesitant" or "anti-Vax" persons there
"reasoning" is POLITICAL. Some mask it as being "religeous" but that
is because their "religion" is so corrupted by Politics. 2 brothers
and at least one sister fall into that "camp"

Clare Snyder

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:38:33 PM11/21/21
to
COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective.
Millions of people in the United States have received COVID-19
vaccines under the most intense safety monitoring in U.S. history.
CDC recommends everyone ages 5 years and older get vaccinated as soon
as possible to help protect against COVID-19 and the related,
potentially severe complications that can occur.
CDC, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and other federal
agencies are monitoring the safety of COVID-19 vaccines.
Adverse events described on this page have been reported to the
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)external icon.
VAERS accepts reports of any adverse event following any vaccination.
Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including
deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health
problem.
Serious adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination are rare but may
occur.

For public awareness and in the interest of transparency, CDC is
providing timely updates on the following serious adverse events of
interest:

Anaphylaxis, a severe type of allergic reaction, following
administration of COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in
approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United
States. Anaphylaxis can occur after any kind of vaccination. If it
happens, healthcare providers can effectively and immediately treat
the reaction. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and allergic
reactions, including anaphylaxis.
Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) occurring after
Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen (J&J/Janssen) COVID-19 vaccination is
rare. As of November 10, 2021, more than 16 million doses of the
J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC
and FDA have identified 50 confirmed reports of people who got the
J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and later developed TTS, including 5
confirmed reports of death. Women ages 18-49, especially, should be
aware of the rare but increased risk of this adverse event. There are
other COVID-19 vaccine options available for which this risk has not
been seen. Learn more about J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS.
To date, two confirmed cases of TTS following mRNA COVID-19
vaccination (Moderna) have been reported to VAERS after more than 418
million doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines administered in the United
States. Based on available data, there is not an increased risk for
TTS after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.
CDC and FDA are monitoring reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) in
people who have received the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine. GBS is a
rare disorder where the body’s immune system damages nerve cells,
causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. Most people fully
recover from GBS, but some have permanent nerve damage. After more
than 16 million J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine doses administered, there
have been around 258 preliminary reports of GBS identified in VAERS as
of November 10, 2021. These cases have largely been reported about 2
weeks after vaccination and mostly in men, many ages 50 years and
older. CDC will continue to monitor for and evaluate reports of GBS
occurring after COVID-19 vaccination and will share more information
as it becomes available.
Myocarditis and pericarditis occurring after COVID-19 vaccination are
rare. As of November 10, 2021, VAERS has received 1,793 reports of
myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 12–29 years who received
COVID-19 vaccines. Most cases have been reported after mRNA COVID-19
vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), particularly in male
adolescents and young adults after the second dose. Through follow-up,
including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have confirmed 1,049
reports of myocarditis or pericarditis. Learn more about myocarditis
and pericarditis after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 442
million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United
States from December 14, 2020, through November 15, 2021. During this
time, VAERS received 9,810 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who
received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to
report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s
unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events
to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily
mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available
clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and
medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19
vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal
relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS, a rare
and serious adverse event that causes blood clots with low platelets,
which has caused 5 deaths pdf icon[1,438 KB, 33 pages].


This amounts to FIVE deaths proven to be caused by the J&J vaccine and
258 cases of GBS MAY be attrutable to the J&J vaccine.

There were 1049 cases of Myocarditis and pericarditis among people 12
to 29 who were vaccinated. (and no deaths!!) (out of roughly 9 million
vaccinated in that age group)

How many cases in the unvaccinated population???? The average over
the last 10 or 15 years is reportedly at least 2 per 100000. - so
about 180 of those cases are statistically unlikely to have been
caused by the vaccine. (so realistically? 850 cases possibly due to
the vaccine)

Also, significantly, up to 7 percent of Covid deaths showed evidence
of myocardial or pericardial tissue involvement consistent with
Myocarditis or pericarditis,

At 235 deaths per 100000, with 7% of them suspected of having myo or
pericarditis, that is 16.5 per 100000 - so with 700000 covid deaths
that is 116 Covid deaths due to myo and pericarditis

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:55:49 PM11/21/21
to
Then why the masks? You can't have it both ways.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:58:09 PM11/21/21
to

hub...@ccanoemail.ca

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 3:04:21 PM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 14:09:55 -0500, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
I have long-lost cousins in Tennessee - so just for a
reference point - I've been watching that state's covid statistics -
and comparing it with some Canadian statistics ..
Certainly not a scientific endeavor - just a snap-shot or
a glimpse of comparison - perhaps a cultural comparison ? :

Nov. 20 2021 7 day moving average

Tennessee pop. 7 m.
daily new cases 1121
daily new deaths 22

Canada pop. 38 m.
daily new cases 2331
daily new deaths 23

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdUOA?Si

John T.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 4:15:03 PM11/21/21
to
Covid really looks like it is just going to be a cyclical thing that
we are going to have to get used to. Florida had theirs, now the rest
of the country that was being so sanctimonious a couple months ago is
getting theirs.

CDC Covid Tracker
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Covid%20map%20nov%202022.jpg

I am just confident the vaccine seriously reduces the symptoms but I
have no confidence it keeps you from carrying the virus. In a few
years we may all carry the virus or the remains of it in a somewhat
innocuous state to everyone, except for those never exposed.
It will be like the European diseases the explorers exposed the native
American cultures to. For us it was the sniffles. To an Amazon
tribesman it was sudden death.

John Brown

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 5:10:41 PM11/21/21
to
<gfre...@aol.com> wrote
> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote
> Covid really looks like it is just going to be a cyclical
> thing that we are going to have to get used to.

That remains to be seen. SARS died out.

Florida had theirs, now the rest
> of the country that was being so sanctimonious a couple months ago is
> getting theirs.
>
> CDC Covid Tracker
> http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Covid%20map%20nov%202022.jpg
>
> I am just confident the vaccine seriously reduces the symptoms
> but I have no confidence it keeps you from carrying the virus.

It does with quite a few. Just not as well as it reduces the
severity of the disease or death. And it remains to be seen
what better vaccines will do about preventing infection too.

In a few
> years we may all carry the virus or the remains of it in a somewhat
> innocuous state to everyone, except for those never exposed.
> It will be like the European diseases the explorers exposed the native
> American cultures to. For us it was the sniffles. To an Amazon
> tribesman it was sudden death.

We had that initially and it didn’t kill anything like that many.

Peeler

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 5:25:53 PM11/21/21
to
On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:10:30 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jt...@mid.individual.net>

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 12:11:54 AM11/22/21
to
On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:10:30 +1100, "John Brown" <kib...@gmail.com>
wrote:
This is super SARS. It does seem to be far more persistent than the
original SARs was.
The vaccine gave us a big head start but this won't be over until our
natural immune system learns how to deal with it. Most of the anti
vaxers will shake this off and ones who won't were probably in trouble
anyway.
I am trusting the vax will work for me.

Jim Joyce

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 3:22:52 AM11/22/21
to
I don't know what you're working with, but it's like Scotch Guard except
that instead of blocking spills, it blocks clues.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 1:19:07 PM11/22/21
to
On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:22:47 -0600, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>
Why is it so hard to understand the dichotomy?
We get vaccinated to protect ourselves, then they say we are not
really protected, go back to 1q20 with your PPE.


John Brown

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 2:05:34 PM11/22/21
to
<gfre...@aol.com> wrote
That doesn’t mean that it will see the same result as
was seen with the virus naïve native indians early on tho.
In fact we know that it did not when we were all covid naïve.

> It does seem to be far more persistent than the original SARs was.

That remains to be seen.

> The vaccine gave us a big head start but this won't be over
> until our natural immune system learns how to deal with it.

That utterly mangles the story. It isn't what happened with
smallpox, polio or even measles or the black death.

> Most of the anti vaxers will shake this off

Yes, it isn't really all that fatal for most.

> and ones who won't were probably in trouble anyway.
> I am trusting the vax will work for me.

Work in the sense of dramatically reducing severe disease and
death, sure, but it's less clear how well it will do herd immunity wise.

And it remains to be seen if or when we see
another variant even worse than delta.

Peeler

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 2:21:03 PM11/22/21
to
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 06:05:24 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

Jim Joyce

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 11:14:23 PM11/22/21
to
That's a great question, but ultimately only you can answer it. It's
been explained to you countless times and you still don't seem to get
it. It's some kind of mental block, I guess, but I can't take a shot at
the root cause. You seem to be stuck in a mindset where, if something
works, it MUST work 100% of the time. Anything less than 100% means it
doesn't work, which then degenerates into stupid labels such as 'virtue
signaling'. I don't mean to point out one of your more annoying
problems, but you did ask.

>We get vaccinated to protect ourselves, then they say we are not
>really protected, go back to 1q20 with your PPE.

Do condoms work?

Ed Pawlowski

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 11:23:50 PM11/22/21